Sunday Sermon: QandA with the Elders

You are listening to the teaching ministry of Gabriel Hughes, pastor of First Southern Baptist Church in Junction City, Kansas. Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday on this podcast, we feature 20 minutes of Bible study through a New Testament book.

On Thursday is our Old Testament study, and then we answer questions from listeners on Friday. Each Sunday we are pleased to share our sermon series, presently going through the letters to the Corinthians.

This is the sermon that was preached last week from our pulpit. Here's Pastor Gabe.

Closing Out First Corinthians with a Congregational Q&A

So as we have brought the study of this letter to a close, as we have done with many other books, in fact, every book that I've preached on so far as I've been pastor here, we've done a Q &A. So we take questions from the congregation and respond to those questions in a Q &A that kind of closes out the study of that particular book.

And so that's what we're doing this morning. If this is your first time at First Southern Baptist, this is a little bit different kind of service than we usually do. Next week, I'll start in Second Corinthians.

So we'll begin our next book study right at the start of March, first Sunday in March. But for today, we have collected questions from the congregation pertaining to things in First Corinthians and other theological questions.

And so just as Paul did with the Corinthians in responding to their questions, so we're going to do the same. So I would like to invite the elders to come up, Chris, Dave, and Dwight. We'll all occupy the seats here, and those questions will appear on the overhead.

And each of these wise men that have been chosen by the church to be elders and to shepherd the teaching here will do their best to give answers to the questions that have been collected. Chris is making Bronco's jokes up here already with his orange microphone.

The Resurrection Body and Bearing the Image of the Man of Heaven

So the first question, let's go ahead with question number one. First Corinthians 1549 says, just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. So doesn't that mean that when we die, we will still look like the same people in heaven since Jesus still had the same body when he ascended into heaven?

Who would like to start with that one? All right, I'll start.

Well, okay, so let me go to First Corinthians 15. So this scripture, starting in verse, what is it, 45?

49. Well, where you're going to start in context, I guess. Yes, yes.

So chapter 15, at least beginning in verse 42.

Yeah, 42. But what you're saying though, Chris, is that we absolutely can't just stand on that verse alone. We have to read the rest of it, right? Correct, yeah.

So let's go back to what this verse is speaking about. Verse 42, so it is with the resurrection of the dead, what is sown is perishable. What is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor. It is raised in glory.

It is sown in weakness. It is raised in power. It is sown a natural body. It is raised a spiritual body. Kind of getting a theme already. Speaking about the natural body, natural man, fallen man, and then our glorified body after the resurrection of the dead.

I'll continue, verse 44, is sown a natural body, is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. Thus it is written, the first Adam, the first man Adam, became a living being.

The last Adam, being Christ, became a life-giving spirit. But it is not the spiritual that is first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. The first man was from the earth, a man of dust. Adam was created out of dirt of the ground, made from dust, and will return to dust.

But that man was made out of the earth. The second man is from heaven, Christ. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust. And as is the man of heaven, so also those who are of heaven.

Just as we have borne the image of man, so just as we have borne the image of Adam, that image of Adam is our fallen nature. We have been separated from God by sin in Genesis chapter 3. And we have borne, all of us, every man and woman born after Adam, has been borne still in the image of God, still carry the image of God, but still, since that first sin, carry the mark of sin.

So we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. So this question here is, since Jesus, we still look like the same people, since Jesus had the same body when he ascended into heaven.

I think that I would probably, if you were to make the argument that we look and have the same body in heaven, I'd probably want to argue different verses, but I think there are plenty of verses that would argue differently, that would give us the idea that our bodies are in some kind of essential way different from what our natural bodies are.

So we said we're all made new. In Romans chapter 8, it even talks about the earth being made new. So all things are made new in some way. On the man of transfiguration in Matthew chapter 7, we see Jesus showing his true likeness, and it terrified the disciples.

It says they were in fear of the way he looked. Isaiah chapter 6, you see Isaiah seeing the glorified Christ on the throne, and it made him tremble, and it made him know how sinful he was when he saw the glorified Christ.

So I think there are plenty of evidences that show that Jesus did not look the same after the resurrection. Even when he appeared to the disciples on the road to Emmaus, the two disciples he was walking with didn't recognize him.

Their hearts burned as they spoke with him, but they didn't recognize him. I think part of that is obviously God shielding their eyes in some way as well. But even when he appeared to the disciples, when he first appeared to all the disciples, except for Thomas, he wasn't with them.

He was out doubting somewhere. It's a joke, Christian joke, dad joke. So when he appeared to them, they first were in fear. And it was only when he showed the hole in his side, the piercing in his side and the holes in his hands, that they believed that it was him.

And then he ate with them to show that he was a real person standing in front of them. They thought it was a ghost. And then the same thing with Thomas. He was fearful when he saw him as well. So I think there's plenty of evidence to show that Jesus' appearance after the resurrection was different in some way.

But then also, plenty of scripture backing up that Jesus' glorified body is very different from what it was while he was here on earth.

Yeah, I would add also that it's also stated that we shall bear the image of the man of heaven. It's just like God created Adam and us with Adam, he's going to create us in our glorified body too. I mean, just imagine us all sitting up there and we don't recognize each other until we speak.

Okay, the question here is what Pastor already read. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. So doesn't that mean that when we die, we will still look like the same people in heaven?

Since Jesus still had the same body when he ascended into heaven? Well, that's the question. And in 1 Corinthians 15, 36, this is what I came up with. It says, what you sow does not come to life unless it dies.

And what you sow is not the body that is to be. Verse 51, 52, it says, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Verse 51, behold, I tell you a mystery.

We shall not all sleep, but we shall all change. And it says, 52, it says, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, for the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable and we shall all be changed.

I think, you know, what the Bible, what the scriptures are telling us is when a person die and if he's a believer in Jesus, of course, his body going to the ground, you know, but when he raised from the dead, his body is going to be changed.

Just like what the scripture says. Our body is going to be changed. Even if you're still alive and Christ come, the scripture says that we all be changed. Have a new body and then go to heaven. So you know what, Jesus was on earth, you know, he was like just us, as flesh and blood, but when he dies, he dies and then rose again with a new body, heavenly bodies.

Thank you.

I don't have anything to add. Just 1 John 3 says that we will see him as he is because we will be made to be like him. So as we are now, we would not even be able to stand in the presence of God. The scriptures that Chris mentioned, like with Isaiah trembling with fear and falling on his face.

John, when he saw the angel in the book of Revelation, fell down before the angel and the angel said, no, no, no, don't worship me. And I think it was Steve Lawson who was preaching on that same passage who said, if we were privileged to be able to see our glorified bodies, we would probably be tempted to fall down and worship ourselves.

Like who we will be glorified in Christ when we are transformed to be like him will be so much more glorious and better than what we are now. And so a lot of what we talk about in 1 Corinthians 15, 49 with image is not necessarily likeness in terms of what we see with our eyes, but in terms of who we are imitators of.

In these bodies, we were born imitators of Adam, but we've been born again to become imitators of Christ and we're growing in maturity in Christ to the day, growing in sanctification to the day that we reach our ultimate glorification, which will be with Christ in heaven.

I guess I did have something to add there. I think we think about these things less in terms of what we perceive with our senses and more about what the apostle Paul is speaking spiritually. And that was one of the things that he confronted there was that we think about these things spiritually not thinking about them in terms of in physical terms.

We were just in Zechariah chapter 12 this morning and that was the theme. Looking at something with natural eyes was the immediate fulfillment, but then looking at Jesus when he's coming spiritually and then mourning over sin, that's what it was.

Looking at it naturally, looking at it spiritually. That's good, but yeah, I'm glad you went back all the way to 36. That is, I think, obviously the analogy that Paul intended here. Just a seed, just like your grass out front, you've got to kill that seed, kill the shell, drown it, water it like crazy until it rots and then something new comes out of it.

Something completely different comes out of it.

Just in the discussion of this first question so far, one of the things I appreciate is that I preach through this, but we still have more to say. And I go through this, just about every sermon I preach, I'll preach something and then over the week, something else will come to me, oh man, I wish I'd said that on Sunday, maybe I should do this again.

But I hope that's what sanctification is doing for you. The same thing is happening for you that after we look at a passage and we study it and the sermon teaching that we're all growing in maturity and our understanding of what the scripture is saying, that as you go through the week, those things are coming to your mind.

Oh, I remember Pastor Gabe saying something about that on Sunday or we read that in the text. And then those things continue, the spirit continues to teach you even as the week goes on, bringing the knowledge of the word of God to your mind as you go through your week.

What Happens When We Die

So let's go to the next question here, question number two. When we die, what happens? I was taught that we go to sleep till Jesus returns and raises everyone for judgment day. Well, in Philippians chapter one, the apostle Paul says that, he's talking to the Philippians, he goes, I don't know what would be better for me if I were to die and go to heaven.

Well, that would be better for me because to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. But it would be better for you if I stay here and I continue to teach you. And so the understanding that we have from that and the way that Paul is addressing the Philippians is that the moment we die, we go and be with God.

Jesus to the thief next to him on the cross said, today you will be with me in paradise. Not hey, your body is going to go into kind of a soul sleep and then I'm going to come back and then the day I come back, then you'll come and be with me.

But this day when you die and I die, you'll be with me in paradise. And I think that's probably the best word that we have on how immediate a transformation this is, that we go from being alive in this world to being alive with God in heaven.

I had an opportunity, and I think some of you have had the same opportunity, is that I don't necessarily like this, but we have to pay our last respects. Sometimes when you go to a memorial and you look at that person that you love in the casket and they never look the same, never.

I don't know what kind of mortuary could be on earth that could make that person look so alive. And I've yet to see one. So when I looked at my father and I seen his lips that looked peaceful, because I'm sure that's what the mortuary tried to do, he was no longer there.

It was obvious that this was a container and that it was just a tent that he was no longer using. That he was taken up, his spirit was gone, joined with his father, with our father. Real obvious. I don't know how many others have had an opportunity to look at the tent that is no longer being used and that's that body.

I think this question can be a question for a lot of people, that when we die, we just die and wait for the judgment day. But, you know, in the Bible, the scripture is very telling us the clear thing that when a person dies, his soul is going to be either to be in the presence of God or to be in hell.

I would like to just mention the story of the rich man and Lazarus. I think we all know this story, it's in Luke 16, 19 to 31. When a poor man died, the Bible says he was carried to Abraham's presence of awesome.

And then the rich man died, he buried in Hades. So there's two places for people when they die, either to go to hell and wait for the judgment day or to heaven and wait for the judgment day, according to what I just said in the scripture.

So, we're not going to sleep, you know, until when Jesus returns. There's a place for us to... We're somewhere. Right.

Right. I'll add Hebrews 9, 27, and just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, that you don't wait until Jesus' second coming for your judgment. It's coming. The other caution I have is coming from a Catholic background, the idea of purgatory in the Catholic Church is one that does carry over quite a bit into evangelicalism from people who have been converted Catholics and other religions as well.

This is not solely a Catholic doctrine. Seventh-day Adventists. Seventh-day Adventists, yeah. And obviously many other religions as well, non-Christian religions. And, to be honest with you, when I look back on my life and my time and those loved ones that I thought about during that timeline, you know, obviously we never speak ill of the dead.

So, when a family member passed away, that family member could have been a not kind individual or could have been not thought of highly or was really obviously, you know, continuing in sin, even in the Catholic Church that was very recognizable.

And the idea of purgatory gave those solace, you know, that you didn't have to say that person went to hell. And I think that's a major reason why that doctrine continues strongly in the Catholic Church, because it appeals to our emotions, even though that person was probably not the kindest person in the world.

But had they not been family, it probably wouldn't have been associated with them. And I'm not speaking of anybody in particular, I'm just speaking in general. Not looking at anybody. Yeah. Obviously, you're none of my relatives when I was growing up.

Family now. But that idea, that concept gave me hope and appealed to my emotions. If anybody, you know, all you speech and debate students know that term. But it appealed to my emotions, it gave me hope that that person would have a chance to reach heaven, because I knew, even as a Catholic, even a very little understanding of biblical doctrine, that person was not likely going to heaven.

And that's a dangerous place to be. That our emotions will deceive ourselves, and even those who know the truth, even those who have read their Bible or heard good doctrine, your emotions will still appeal to you to believe something different than what God's Word is saying.

In the hymn that we read today, the hymnist is asking for God to tie his heart like a fetter to him, because my heart is prone to wander. And so when your emotions are appealing to someone you love, I talk about this when it comes to missions a lot, you know, when you're preaching the gospel to somebody new, you're not just preaching them a new gospel and telling them that what they believe is wrong, you're telling them what their loved ones believed was wrong.

And in that way, this idea of purgatory for the Catholic Church, I think, is also one of those that brings solace to a heart, rather than having faith in what Scripture speaks.

And that's when Albert Moeller was responding to a question last year, Albert Moeller, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, last year there was a question that came to him about Hank Hanegraaff, the Bible Answer Man.

Some of you who've listened to the Bible Answer Man on BOT radio, he was taken off of BOT because he had left the evangelical church and had become Greek Orthodox. And Dr. Moeller was asked why a person would do that.

Why would somebody leave Protestantism and become Greek Orthodox or become Catholic or anything else? And one of the things that Dr. Moeller said is because, he said, I wouldn't be able to speak for Hank, but one of the reasons why a lot of people do that is because it takes the responsibility off of you to have to respond to questions like this, and instead places it on somebody in the church or the doctrine of the church, and they have all the answers and I don't have to respond to this because my priest can tell me, or something like that.

And he said, you know, the term that we tend to use for that is the smells and bells. People just like the smells and bells. So they'll go to church for the ritual and for the incense and the liturgy and all these things without understanding the responsibility that each and every one of us has to know what the word of God says and to practice it and to share it with our neighbor.

And it's perfectly fine for you to say, if somebody asks you a question you don't know the answer to, to say, well, I don't know. Don't instead say that you do know and then make yourself look like a fool.

But go back to the scripture and try to understand what it is that God has said about that particular issue and be able to respond to that person honestly. It is okay to pick up the conversation again later instead of feeling like we have to close all doors and cover all bases here in the conversation that we're having.

The Reality of Hell and the Hope of Heaven

So let's go to question number three here. You said that we can't know what heaven is really like until we get there. Does that also apply to hell? Will we ever know what hell is really like? By the grace of God, no.

I do not want to know. I don't even want to see any that are thrown into the lake of fire. Ones that you thought, ones that said they do, and yet they did not know him, will be thrown in the lake of fire.

I don't want to see that. Who knows? I might have to. I don't know. But I certainly wouldn't want to know what it's like. I do know there's a lake of fire there. I do know that they gnash with their teeth, probably because of the pain.

That's all I know about hell.

That's all I want to know. Dwight had already brought up Luke 16 and the story of the rich man and Lazarus, and the rich man could see. He could look across a chasm and he could see Lazarus on the other side being tended to by Abraham and the angels, but couldn't get there.

And Abraham's explanation to the rich man was, there is a chasm that's been fixed where I can't go to you and you can't come over here. And so apparently, however this spiritual realm works, apparently you can see what's going on there.

But if you go to Revelation 15, the people of God are rejoicing in God because he's destroyed his enemies. So one of the things that we will be worshiping God for is because he's put all of his enemies to destruction.

And that's probably hard for us to conceptualize now, and it should be. It should torment our soul to think that we've got friends or loved ones that would go to hell if not in this life they turn from their sin and worship Christ.

But when we get to the other side and we are transformed to be like Christ, that there's going to be a different perspective because we will see and understand God's will perfectly, which we don't see and understand perfectly now.

That old heretical teacher, I won't give his name, had a book called Love Wins, and tried changing the definition of Gehenna into an exactly literal translation. Gehenna, as Jesus explained it, or used as an analogy of hell, was a trash dump outside of Jerusalem that it just burned and burned and burned, and he used that as an analogy.

And that's one thing to think about that. And for us in the Western world where we have trash service, you know, if you live in town your tax money takes your trash away. Maybe been to the dump, but it's really nice, you know, they've got big front end loaders that take it around.

But when you're in a place, and for those of you who have been active duty, you know that when there is a trash dump and they burn through it, it's gross. It's really gross. It's not a good thing to see.

But then when you see people digging through that trash for food, or for something to gain, then it takes it another level. And so you know that that person, from your own experience, that person has to be at a really low place to be being inside that area of a trash dump, where there's stuff burning all around them, and it's just smoldering, but they're just digging through what they can find.

So I think, you know, look at these analogies. So if that's the analogy that he used, and try to understand that analogy as well as you can, and then point out to the fact that that analogy is lesser than what the reality is.

The analogy isn't, he wasn't saying it's exactly that place, he was saying this is a picture of it. If you can get a picture of this, you get a little taste of it. Hell is very clearly not a good place.

Not for anyone. And that's the point he was making. And I think the more that you can look at those analogies, where the worm never dies. I don't know about you, but if I grab something, you know, grab a log or something, it's got a bunch of maggots underneath it, I drop the log.

You know, I might say, oh, boys, look, cool afterwards.

But you don't want any of them on you.

My wife is not, you know, but I mean, I don't know anybody I'd like to have, you know, that kind of thing crawling around them.

And Victoria, she wouldn't mind looking either. No, she's pretty hardcore.

But again, the analogy is lesser than the reality. And so we get to see a little picture of, through the analogy, hell is obviously much worse than that.

When I was young, like a young Christian, when they talk about hell, well, maybe they didn't really explain to me clearly, so they used this example, you know, when you start a fire and go close to it, that's how, a little bit of, you know, how hell is.

You know, you can burn, you know, with that fire. And I think we know already that the hell is, you know, look like, it's a description, it's the lake burning with fire. So of course, you know, we don't want to go there.

We don't want to even just, you know, see it or too close to it. It's not good place, you know, for people to go. And I think, you know, God created that for Satan and his angels, not for people. And so, you know, it talks about heaven.

The Bible is also help us just to know a little bit about, you know, how heaven look like. You read the Revelation 21, it's, you know, it's really explained, not fully, but, you know, it's just to help us to know that, you know, heaven is a good place.

And I would like to also encourage our minds with Philippians 4, starting in verse 8. Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is in any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things, which you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, not me specifically.

Practice these things and the God of peace will be with you.

Set your treasures up in heaven. If you have faith in Christ, you have absolutely nothing to fear of hell. Question four, are there animals in heaven? I'll let Chris start with this. Will our pets be in heavens?

Some churches practice pet funerals. Is this a good idea?

All right, I'll take the second half of this first. I'll do that first. I will take it all, but, so some churches practice pet funerals. Is this a good idea? I do not believe so, and I would stand against us doing that.

Animals were not made in the image and likeness of God. Man were. You know that, what was that, a guy from Newsboys that had the cartoon song, I can't remember,.

He had like a Kermit the Frog voice in it. Well, that was Chris Rice, yeah, did cartoons. Oh, okay, thank you.

Yeah, yeah. So it was like cartoons, you know, Scooby-Doo or whatever. Scooby-Dooby-Doo, yeah. Yeah, that one, that one. He's our God. I mean, He's their God too, but there are certain, a different relationship that man has with God that animals do not.

Are there animals in heaven? Yes, there are. I'll give you one example since Dwight made me go to Revelation 21. I'll go back to Revelation 19, verse 11, then I saw heaven open and behold, a white horse.

The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. Some of you have been here long enough, you know what I'm pointing at. But obviously the point is, yes, there are animals in heaven.

There are very strange animals in heaven, animals that we, even at John's best attempt of explaining what that animal looked like, it's not what that animal really looks like, but it is some weird, strange-looking animals, animals that we do not have here on earth.

Will our pets be in heaven? I don't know. I don't believe so. The reason Gabe punted this one to me, because I told him I did hear the Bible Answer Man, previous to Hank Hanegraaff, answer this question, a young boy, he's doing the same kind of thing.

He always did that, obviously, that was his shtick, was answering questions that are sent in. But a young boy asks, you know, my dog just died, will my dog be in heaven? And the way he answered this was that in heaven you will be full of joy, and all mourning and all crying will cease.

And if God sees fit that you need to have that animal there in heaven in order for that to be so, it will be so. Possible. I would argue that if Jesus is there, that because we are a church who argues for the sufficiency of Christ in all things, that Christ is all you will need in order to be fully joyful, fully complete, and to have no mourning.

Yeah, that need will definitely be fulfilled, and it won't necessarily take an animal to do that. It's Christ himself. I will tell you that when Vicki's little Samantha died, little toy poodle, teacup poodle, it was next to her heart.

It broke her heart. And we did bury Samantha. And I did hold hands with her and prayed for her heart to be healed, and that we know where our true treasure is, that this animal was just giving us this comfort here on earth, and that we could get closure.

And I did pray with Vicki to do that because she was hurt. And to console her, we actually did pray over the buried animal to say that really it's the comfort and the peace that we can get in Christ. Not that will we join one day with that animal, but that animal's gone and separated from us.

Yeah, I think I like what Chris said that, what did you say? Whatever I said was good. Yeah, what Chris said. I don't remember either, but I'm sure it was really good. It's on the recording. We can go back and listen to it.

No, I was kind of thinking of this and said, animals is also a part of God's creation. When we read in Genesis, God create man, and of course, He create the animal and allow man to name its animals and words and have dominion over them.

And so it's a part of God's creation. To be in heaven, I don't know. I think just for Chris to say that, and probably there will be animals in heaven, but that's not the main reason why we're going to heaven.

When we go there, all what we're going to do is to worship Jesus, night and day. There will be no time to look for our pets. We have a cat right now, and she's part of our family. Sometimes you go out for two, three days, not coming back, but she will come.

And when we come, we rejoice that she returned. And so she's very close to us. When we go to heaven, there will be no pets up there, I think.

I agree that we shouldn't do pet funerals with the reason that Chris gave. Will our pets be in heaven? My answer would be no, but whether pets or animals in general will be in the new heavens or the new earth, that's a different question.

So in heaven, no. In the new heavens or new earth, maybe so. Colossians 1 .20, that God was pleased through Christ to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

So all of creation is being reconciled to God the Father through the person and work of Jesus Christ. And we are being told in Revelation that all things are going to be restored to the glory that God created them to have when he made all things in Genesis chapters 1 and 2.

And so does that mean then that everything's going to have that perfect quality that it had when God first made it, and everything's going to be just as it was in the first days of creation? I'm not sure, but I think that the argument for animals to be in the new heavens and new earth would be stronger than making an argument that animals are in heaven, anyway.

So there you go, honey. I'm sure you're going to take Pastor Gabe's answer, right?

Judging Inside the Church and Matters of Conscience

All right, question number five. How do Romans 14 .4 and 1 Corinthians 5 .12 not contradict each other? So here's the two passages. Romans 14 .4, who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another?

It is before his own master that he stands or falls, and he will be upheld for the Lord is able to make him stand. And 1 Corinthians 5 .12, for what have I to do with judging outsiders, that's a spelling error, is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?