Gather25 Questions & Concerns

Thoroughly Equipped

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

And so on a night where I was really begging God, show me what to do, one of my friends prayed and said,

00:07

God, I pray that you would even tonight in her sleep, just give her clarity. And so that night, I had a dream, a vivid dream that I will never forget as long as I live.

00:19

And I know y 'all want to know what it was. I'm not going to tell you all the details of the dream. I know, but I will say this.

00:26

I dream that Jesus was coming back in 10 years. Now, this is not

00:33

Jenny Allen making a prophetic announcement, but I can't help what I dreamed.

00:39

I dreamed it, as vivid as we're standing here right now, maybe even more vivid, and it completely changed me.

00:48

There was one morning last year when I woke up from a dream, and the dream had left me with a question that I couldn't stop thinking about.

00:59

What if Jesus came back in 10 years? If we knew he was coming and coming soon, what would we do?

01:08

In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus himself told us to be ready for the Son of Man is coming at an hour we don't expect.

01:17

None of us will ever be able to predict when Jesus is going to return. But what if it was sooner than we think?

01:23

Are we ready? How would it change the way we're living today? Would we be so divided, or would we work together?

01:30

Would I worry as much about the small things, or would I give my life to the cause of making Jesus know?

01:36

What would the church be willing to do? Would we carry on the same way we always have, or would we do something that has never been done before?

01:45

Add to this the question, what if we don't have long? Would we do something bold?

01:51

Would we do something unprecedented? But it's time for Gather 25, a historic worldwide gathering inviting every

02:02

Christian of every denomination from every continent to come together on March 1, 2025 for 25 hours of prayer, worship, repentance, and commissioning, sending out the whole body of Christ to reach the whole world with the

02:19

Gospel. Some of you will gather in stadiums. Some of you will gather in churches. Some of you will gather in your living rooms.

02:26

But we will all be connected at once across the continents, lifting up a single shout of praise and a single prayer to heaven.

02:34

This is a moment for every man, every woman, and every child who follows Jesus. In these 25 hours, different leaders from different cultures will preach and lead and exhort us.

02:46

Stories will be told of what God is doing in every part of the world right now, and you are not going to believe it.

02:53

Guys, it's not a small vision. It is not a small vision. It was April 2022 when

02:59

I woke up from that dream. And in the dream, I dreamed Jesus was coming back, and it wasn't good news.

03:05

And it wasn't good news because we still had so much work to do. And I believe that right now on Earth, there are so many movements of God that are happening, and this is a part of it.

03:16

Never before in history has it been possible to gather the entire global church. And so we're gonna try.

03:23

Yeah. And we have so many people helping us. We have so many people that are a part of this story.

03:29

From April 22nd till today, it's just been yes after yes after yes after yes, because it's gonna take all of us to accomplish this.

03:37

And so we want you to say you're in. Next year on March 1st, Gather 25 will be hosting a one -of -a -kind global event to give thanks and praise to God.

03:46

People from all nations and denominations will gather for 25 hours of nonstop prayer and worship.

03:52

The announcement comes one year after Asbury Revival. Ainsley visited Asbury University in Kentucky last year, where people gathered for nonstop worship services the last two weeks.

04:03

And people just started coming to the altar, just repent, and it was just beautiful because the friends that just supported one another was what captivated me.

04:09

It's hard to describe and put into words what you've seen, but I think what I've seen is just like the true goodness of God and the true outpouring of the

04:15

Spirit. And those are your headlines, Ainsley. What an amazing thing to witness, especially young people all joining together.

04:22

I love this. God is moving. God is moving around the globe. That's great. Gather 25, and it's all over the world. We'll have to take part in that and find a church here that's participating in that,

04:30

Carly. Helpful, wonderful, give it up to God. There are a lot of problems in this world right now, a lot of bad news to report, but this is a good news.

04:37

Welcome to the Thoroughly Equipped podcast, where we compare the teachings from popular women's ministry books, conferences,

04:44

Bible studies, et cetera, to Scripture. Our focus is 2 Timothy 3, 16 to 17, that all

04:51

Scripture is God -breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness so the man or woman of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

05:03

I'm your host, Melba Toast. May this episode bless you and bring glory to God.

05:17

Hey, ladies. Welcome back to another episode of Thoroughly Equipped. If you're new, welcome. If you are not new, we're gonna get into a topic you probably know me to be familiar with.

05:30

I took a whole season to tackle the if -gathering, and we're gonna kinda go back to it a little bit.

05:38

That's because going forward, there's some things, there was an announcement to the if -gathering back in March of some new plan, and I think we need to talk about it.

05:51

So back in February, the if -gathering hosted its 10 -year anniversary conference at Dickey's Arena in Fort Worth, Texas.

06:02

At this conference, Miss Allen announced a new vision of a global church gathering, encouraging the hundreds of thousands of women to spread the word and to participate in it.

06:13

She called this gathering, this global church gathering, Gather 25.

06:19

You heard some clips in the intro to this episode about it. That was one of its main trailers.

06:27

So I wanted to present to you just kinda what was going on with this Gather 25 and what's behind it, and then talk about some concerns that I have and some questions that I think we need to be asking and discussing really as a church as a whole, and you know, in a whole.

06:51

And so anyway, let's just dive into this as I, you know, try to figure out my system here.

07:01

Anyway, here we go, yeah. Still new with all this kinda technology, but going instead of recording individual videos and editing them all together,

07:14

I decided, okay, let's give OBS a shot. And it's been helpful, but I'm still getting used to how to transfer things and lowest in my screen and all that just, but anyway.

07:26

So I'm on the website for Gather 25, if you are listening to this by podcast.

07:33

And it says, oh, see, you can't even see that very well. Hold on a second, guys.

07:39

Let's move this. There we go. Okay. Right on the homepage, they state this, their purpose for Gather 25 is that there are, quote, 55 billion people on the planet who do not know

07:55

Jesus. If we want to reach the whole world with the gospel, we need to mobilize the global church.

08:02

We need the 2 .5 billion Jesus followers to pray, to repent, to worship, and to be commissioned, sending us out to reach everyone we know.

08:13

That is what Gather 25 is all about. And of course, they say now that we have the technology to connect in ways before it makes it more possible to bring everybody together from every nation, every denomination, and every generation.

08:32

In their about part, she goes over the story.

08:41

So for over a decade, this is what it says on the website, over a decade, Jenny Allen has been inviting women from around the world to follow

08:49

Jesus and to disciple others to do the same. This is the beginning of the if gathering.

08:56

But in 2022, she began to wrestle with a question. Now, she explains a little differently at the gathering.

09:05

And in the trailer, she realized that there was some kind of dream involved in this. But it brought up a question that she poses here.

09:13

What if Jesus came back in 10 years? So she says there are 5 .5

09:19

billion people on earth who don't know Jesus. If we truly believed he was coming and coming soon, what would we do to reach them?

09:26

What would the global church be willing to do? Could 2 .5 billion Christians on earth be mobilized to share the gospel?

09:35

So with this new urgency and vision, of course, if you know a little bit, we'll go into this.

09:42

It's brought on by a dream she had, just like if gathering back in 2014, she announced that she received a still small voice, or not a still small voice, a small voice from heaven was her words, informing her to equip a generation.

10:01

And that is what brought on If Gathering. Jenny then decided with this vision to gather the whole global church.

10:14

She assembles a team. Throughout 2023, this group began to dream about what a gathering of the global church, every man, woman, and child who follows

10:21

Jesus could look like. And so Gather 25 was born. It wasn't just Jenny's vision.

10:27

It was a shared vision of many Jesus followers. And if we know a little bit about her associations, it's probably quite a few of the other

10:36

If Gathering presenters, the female teachers that present there. Slowly, If Gathering opened its doors to male speakers.

10:47

There was, you know, the Dr. Kurt Thompson who they brought in, and then more and more, they began to have more male pastors coming in to give presentations at the actual gathering.

11:03

Let's see. So it continues here on the website.

11:11

It was clear that God was speaking to leaders across different streams about the next 10 years of the church.

11:19

So they got partners. It's not gonna be just another event. The mission is critical.

11:26

The vision is bold, it states here. And the necessity is clear. It will take all of us during Gather 25 to life.

11:36

They need leaders, ministries, and everyday people to make it happen. So basically they're going to instruct women, which they did, that gathered at the

11:44

If Gathering to go back to their churches and get their home churches involved. So here's the vision from Jenny that was in the, this was the trailer.

12:07

Well, let's see if I could listen to this anyway.

12:16

Let's go back. There was one morning last year when

12:44

I woke up from a dream. And the dream had left me with a question that I couldn't stop thinking about.

12:53

What if Jesus came back in 10 years? If we knew

12:59

He was coming and coming soon, what would we do? In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus Himself told us to be ready for the

13:08

Son of Man is coming at an hour we don't expect. None of us will ever be able to predict when

13:15

Jesus is going to return. But what if it was sooner than we think? Are we ready? How would it change the way we're living today?

13:24

Would we be so divided? Or would we work together? Would I worry as much about the small things or would

13:30

I give my life to the cause of making Jesus know? What would the church be willing to do?

13:37

Would we carry on the same way we always have or would we do something that has never been done before?

13:44

Right now on earth, there are 2 .5 billion people who claim to follow Jesus. That means there are another 5 .5

13:51

billion who don't know Him. People who are walking through life without knowing what true hope is.

13:57

People who have no idea that the Creator God who designed the universe is also the Savior God who took on flesh and offered up His own life to rescue us.

14:08

Those 5 .5 billion people are spread across every country. They are people who live in Texas and New York, Wyoming, and Georgia.

14:17

All right, I'm gonna pause it there. The trailer or this promotion video is very moving.

14:29

If you're listening to this on the podcast, it shows pictures of people of all sorts of cultures and nations and it's shot in black and white and the music is moving and her words are very pious, lifting up of the wanting to go and reach the nation.

14:49

And that's understandable, right? That is what we are called to do as Christians to go and disciple all the nations, to teach them about Jesus Christ, to present the gospel and to train them up to be like their

15:05

Lord. So here are just some of the things that I'm thinking about.

15:13

As I'm going about researching this and thinking about having a actual global church gathering, it set up like the

15:25

IfGathering. And IfGathering, its technology is just brilliant. In 10 years, it went from hundreds of women to million of women.

15:39

It reached a million. I don't know if it was last year or the year before that, that IfGathering actually says that they've reached a million women.

15:50

And that's just to me, it's unbelievable. Technology is such a blessing and I'm so thankful for it.

15:58

But you're gonna need to discern, okay? Great moves of God, the spreading of the gospel.

16:07

And these are things that we want. Yes, we want revival. And the term that I mean, the biblical term of revival, the repenting of the sins and the turning away from it and to trust in Christ and to pursue love and what is spiritual.

16:27

But the thing is that we're so likely to think these great moves of God, even through technology, the reaching out to the nations and the gathering of the global church in this way is going to be good.

16:46

And I truly believe God will use, he uses all things for his glory, right?

16:52

But there are just some things, there are red flags that when I think about gather 25, that I think we need to talk about, okay?

17:03

So let me switch back here. All right, so first of all, there should be definitely some questions that arise from Jenny Allen having a dream, right?

17:16

If we don't know Jenny Allen's claim, she received this small voice and instructed her to equip a generation.

17:23

Back several years, she says about seven years before if gathering actually started in 2014, she had received this still small voice from heaven.

17:33

Here's a clip of her, here's that clip. I wanna just for one second, give you a little bit behind the scenes of where this all came from.

17:42

About seven years ago, a voice from the sky doesn't often speak to me.

17:50

But that day there was this whisper, it was the middle of the night actually, and it was gather and equip your generation.

17:57

And this was ridiculous because honestly, I was a stay at home mom, I didn't know anybody that could help me with that job.

18:06

And it was a completely ridiculous statement, so ridiculous that I just for two days, my bones hurt and I didn't know what to do with it.

18:14

So just like the beginnings of the if gathering, Jenny here is receiving extra biblical revelation and instruction through a, she received instruction through a voice of heaven and is now receiving sort of the strange, not saying that the dream instructed her, but she said the questions that came from the dream are really making me to really think about it.

18:32

And so she's going on to move, to make an effort to bring a global church together through the technology that they've implemented with the if gathering, based on the dream that she had that brought on these questions.

18:54

And something makes me think that she should be weary here.

19:01

Okay, making a decision, producing a vision for a ministry based off a dream or starting a ministry because of a voice from heaven.

19:17

Like why hasn't the voice ever once told her not to preach over men in the local church gathering?

19:23

That's just a question that I think. Why hasn't this voice warned her of the many false teachers she's platformed at the if gathering?

19:29

The Holy Spirit from his written word certainly has warned her.

19:36

And that's where I think I hit this kind of, this is like, okay, there might be an overstepping here when you're choosing to make decisions or revolving what you're gonna do with your ministry and where not just your ministry, but now the whole global church where it needs to go based off of a dream, you receiving the questions that you got from it and instead of focusing on scripture, why isn't that the number one thing that she goes to?

20:08

Perhaps this is a deception, all of it. Maybe all the if gathering was a false spirit and should have been tested.

20:18

Maybe that voice should have been tested. And she goes on in the video to say that, yes, voices should be tested.

20:25

But to her directly, it was a voice from heaven. That same voice then, if she was testing it, would have told her, hey, you shouldn't be preaching and teaching over men.

20:40

You shouldn't be bringing in these teachers who teach more of a social justice gospel and a false doctrine in this way that lead people away from clear instruction to women in scripture and their roles and the beauty that God has granted them in their roles in Titus two and other areas in Proverbs 31.

21:07

And instead it pushes women to go and do things that are for changing this world.

21:15

And a slight, slight change in that way takes the focus off of the faith in Christ that works in us daily and makes our focus the change to the world instead of our changing and repenting and focusing on our sinful nature and doing what the scriptures say and in battling against our sin.

21:38

That is not, that's not the focus, right? The focus is now go and change the world. So this, this dream, okay, and the voice of God was speaking to a woman here.

21:54

Now I'm not against women going out and having a vision for a ministry or having a vision for a career or a vision for family or anything like that.

22:05

But if scripture clearly says, don't preach and teach over men or don't partner with other women who preach and teach over men, don't encourage that, call out the sin of that or to partner with women who teach critical race theory or, you know, a social justice gospel.

22:27

If, you know, if the vision that you receive involves doing that, we need to go back to scripture and align our vision for our ministry and whatever work we do in this life based on clear scripture.

22:43

And we need to obey it and follow that first. So it just, it's,

22:52

I'm wary of some of the powerhouses that will be involved in creating the

23:00

Scatter 25. Well, I'm sure there's lots of women who are already involved in the gathering, who are then already in rebellion against God, setting something up to gather the church.

23:14

That's the point I'm trying to make here. Now, then the other thing too, is that this dream of a global gathering that Jenny has is she's now giving it out to the women from the

23:26

F gathering. Millions of women are offered to or told to go to their churches and to make this possible, go back to their local churches and urge the elders of their congregation to get involved in this gathering, the global gathering.

23:47

A gathering put together because of a dream of Christ's return and Jenny's belief that the universal church is failing.

23:54

This is the other kind of concern that I have here. So Jenny's statement, which implied that the church was not doing what it was supposed to do.

24:04

Yes, the visible church is not doing what it's supposed to do, but the invisible church is.

24:09

The invisible church is not called to do something unprecedented or new to reach people with the gospel.

24:17

They are called to be faithful to his word and Christ's word calls all to repent and believe in the gospel, to cut off sin in their life, trust in Christ's work and walk by faith daily.

24:28

And as we do that, we go and make disciples, Matthew 28, 19. That can be for some women, a call to go to other nations or to society or full on ministry.

24:39

But for most women who have husbands and children are making disciples will involve our children.

24:45

And it is done as we are walking, be faithful right where God has placed us. It's done in a local church gathering to the small little churches from older women who are dedicated to train and disciple younger women to love their husbands and children and all that Titus two is instructing us.

25:07

Jenny Allen's commissioning is an urge to do more than repent, believe, walk and make disciples.

25:14

It's a call that the social gospel makes as it urges you to change the world. And this unprecedented commissioning by Jenny Allen and her ilk will put a burden on women.

25:26

It really makes the instructions given to women by the Holy Spirit to focus on ministry in our homes, to our churches, to be faithful to our nearest neighbors.

25:35

The problem with the church today. I mean, that seems to be what she's implying here that God is not pleased with women and men who simply do what scripture tells them, right?

25:45

I mean, do you get that kind of feeling? Does she express a belief here that Christians are failing?

25:52

And so that directly applies to Christian women because here it is at the gathering it was presented to Christian women.

26:01

Now I'm speculating here, but I want to make an educated guess that the speeches presented, at least on her part, which

26:08

I imagine she will speak, but I could be wrong, will be motivational speeches to quote unquote, make

26:15

Jesus known. This has been a common phrase used by Jenny Allen over and over throughout the years of IfGathering.

26:23

So she wants to urge people to get out of their comfort zones and make changes in the world by showing love and compassion to those in need.

26:31

I make this guess not only because of Jenny Allen's stated belief that if Jesus came back, he would be disappointed and that she obviously feels that something unprecedented and new needs to happen, or she wouldn't be setting up the

26:44

Gather 25 event. But I make this guess also because whenever she talks at the IfGathering, it's always about doing more, always about being better.

26:54

She wants women to be more like her, serving and equipping an entire generation instead of serving our husband and equipping our children.

27:02

Now, how do I know this? Most of the women who Jenny platforms are what she identified as powerhouses who have other popular ministries like hers, who usurp authority like she has and preach to other women about purpose, neglecting the role

27:17

God has called women to and proclaiming a special role given to them by God to serve society in some unique way.

27:24

Now, I'm not against, like I said, women working outside of the home, especially if needed, nor am

27:29

I against women serving at their church or community, but the family. God has called all women to prioritize the family.

27:38

If you are married and have children, then wife and mother are your first vocations as you are called to be a helper to your husband and to disciple your children.

27:47

If you are yet to be married, then your vocation can be service to society, but I would highly encourage service to your local church.

27:55

If you are divorced with children, your first priority is to them and that would mean you would have to work to care for them.

28:02

And then extra time would be needed to disciple them and even extra work to make sure they are discipled with a biblical worldview.

28:09

To these women, my heart goes out to you and I really pray for you. I really wish the church would step up in this.

28:16

Now, if you're an older woman with grown children, your experience can now be a blessing for the younger woman in the church.

28:23

And if you are one who especially loves God's word, your first priority is still to your home and your husband, but now you have time to serve in the community.

28:31

Though I would love to see more and more older women serving in the church by discipling other women than by working out in the world.

28:39

But an older woman who has been faithful to God and has feared him in her vocations will be a great influence, even outside in the world.

28:47

The dedication to God's word, her family and her church will be a great light, much needed to shine in this day and age.

28:56

None of this is presented, laid out or even encouraged at the IF gathering, in the

29:02

IF ministry in general. Instead, you get this sense by the presentations and the lives of the teachers platform there that mission work should be our first priority.

29:12

Mission work, I would add, that means to show love, not call out sin and give

29:17

Christ crucified. Mission work centered on making life better for people now, instead of mission work that would save people from the wrath to come by pointing out their sins, calling them to turn from them and proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ.

29:32

Ladies, women's ministry in a whole needs to go back to teaching and exalting the roles of women within the universal church and our role in the local church.

29:41

God who is good and perfect knows best of what women should do to advance the gospel, to make

29:46

Jesus known. With scripture to equip us, our dedication to the home is the vocation by which

29:52

God and Christ are most glorified. One of the other concerns I have is this seems to me to be a move from what was known to be just a woman's ministry to now a unisex ministry.

30:05

So listen to Jenny Allen explain here in this clip. Now I know what you're asking.

30:11

You're asking what happens to IF gathering. Well, I can say this. We follow

30:16

God. And I don't believe IF gathering is over. I believe it has a lot of future ahead.

30:22

But I do believe in 2025, this is what we're called to do. We're called to partner with this and to give away what we experience to the world and to be a part of that with the world.

30:34

So global leaders from all over have already said, yes, I'm in. I wanna help build this. Continent leaders have said,

30:40

I will help rally my continent. I mean, this is crazy. We're gonna be on every continent in 2025, live streaming to all the world.

30:50

Held at the same time, early spring, that IF gathering usually holds its conference encompassing about the same time period, a 24 hour period of time.

30:59

It seems to me to be IF ministries move from a woman's conference with an extremely light complementarian position to a full on eglitarian position, exalting female pastors and giving them a platform to teach over men.

31:14

You heard her say it. This is the new move of God. IF gathering will continue, but now the

31:20

IF ministry will take it to the world. Now this really shouldn't surprise us at all. This is where all we see now, this secret sensitive evangelical churches have been going.

31:30

IF has had a hand in bringing social justice and egalitarian theology into non -denoms such as Calvary Chapel and others, and even

31:41

Baptist churches. And now you see the fruit of it. This will give all the female teachers involved in the

31:46

IF ministry an open door to full congregations. And those congregations will go to the

31:51

IF, Parachurch Ministry for Discipleship Resources, will open themselves up to mysticism, psychotherapeutic techniques, tools such as the

32:01

Enneagram, the social gospel, critical race theory, et cetera. There's another issue

32:06

I have in this, that it seems to be Jenny's commissioning. They mentioned the word commissioned, that they were to gather, to repent, pray, worship, and commission.

32:17

And since Jenny Allen's the one setting it up, along with other so -called leaders that she brought into this, it will be a sort of her commissioning and not

32:31

Christ. Now I'm stewarding a platform that is beyond anything my brain can comprehend.

32:37

And I have to ask God, what do you want me to do with this? What do you want me to do? And when he says, commission my people to live as if I am coming back,

32:51

I'm sorry, I don't have a funny joke to start with. This is what we gotta do. So first I'm commissioning you.

33:00

On the website it said, quote, there will be a worldwide sending out of the workers of the harvest, end quote.

33:08

Jenny Allen and the other vision casters involved in this online assembly, we've been commissioning those gathering.

33:15

Behind this is an acceptance of any denomination that wishes to simply tag the name Christian onto it.

33:21

Christ's commissioning of workers for the harvest were his disciples, men whom he taught.

33:26

The workers of the harvest had been trained by Christ, taught his doctrines and commands, and were commissioned to the therefore disciple others, teaching them all that Christ had taught and commanded them.

33:38

It is with his teachings that he is wanting these men to plant and harvest with. And in his teachings, he directs his workers to root out false teachers and false teachings.

33:51

Gather 25 has no intention of rooting out false gospels, such as the mystical gospel, which we've seen through the

33:58

IF ministry, the gospel of purpose, which we see a lot in most secret sensitive churches, the health and wealth gospel, which we see in word of faith and NAR and other type churches, and the social gospel, which we see in progressive type churches.

34:16

All of these gospels are perpetuated in the wider evangelical sphere under all sorts of denominations.

34:23

So they will not only be worshiping with those who hold these false doctrines and gospels, but by Jenny Allen, also a commissioning with workers of iniquity, meaning they accept them as disciples as well.

34:36

Gather 25 will perpetuate a false unity in the visible global church. Does it at all bother anyone that we have this push for the visible global church together, even at all, like altogether, let alone this gathering being set up by a rebellious woman and spread by hundreds of thousands of women who will be taught by these rebellious women?

35:02

See, I'm always like hesitant of supposed great moves of God. I wonder about certain movements being more of a work of man, motivated and directed by our own efforts and desires than being an actual work of the

35:14

Holy Spirit. If you've read Revelation, gatherings and movements like these really should kind of wave a red flag.

35:23

A gathering of the visible global church should bring some concerns.

35:30

First that it's a blend of any denomination, like we said. At one point, we may have been able to say that most denominations claiming to be evangelical would at least be holding to the essentials of the faith.

35:42

But now we have several denominations that claim to be evangelical, but don't hold to these essentials because they have disregarded such essentials as God as Trinity, that Jesus is divinity and humanity, the hypostatic union, the exclusivity of Jesus Christ, the sinful nature of man,

36:02

Christ's penal substitutionary atonement, and the doctrine of sola scriptura. Each of these is necessary to support salvation by faith alone.

36:13

Because pastors abandon these, we have denominations that claim to be evangelical, yet act and speak more like the liberal church.

36:22

As I said, there was something that puts me off about any man or woman who seems to receive a dream and ask about what if Jesus returns in 10 years and then make the conscious effort to gather the global church to commission them.

36:35

They will not only be worshiping with those who hold to these false doctrines and gospels, but by Jenny Allen, she'll also be commissioning with workers of iniquity, accepting them as disciples as well, like I said.

36:48

So Dave Jenkins has a podcast called Servants of Grace. And on it, he had a guest,

36:55

Haley Williams, who was involved with the If Gathering. I think she even says she hosted, attended locals or attended it for a couple of years and was big on a lot of the actual popular teachers who present there.

37:10

Big involvement with them, following them on podcasts and doing some of their readings and stuff like that.

37:17

So she has a little background coming out of it. And she, in the podcast, relayed some of the problems, which

37:24

I had already relayed in diving deep into it last season. She talks about the theological problems and the false teachings that are perpetuated in it and the false teachings that come out of, that are being taught by these other presenters.

37:47

And then she talks about, she made this point about the false unity and she noticed it as well.

37:56

You'll hear some of the gospel sprinkled in, but there are subtle notes of kind of really misunderstanding scripture's call to believers to be set apart, to stand firm, to arrive at truth based on what

38:06

God's word says. And to not, I always think of, when I think of the people who preach or teach at If and the people who

38:13

Jenny associates with, the verse that always comes to mind for me is 2 Timothy 3, 7. And that is that they are the kind, or 3, 6, they are the kind who worm their way into households and captivate vulnerable women who are weighed down with sins and led astray by various passions who are always learning, but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

38:33

And so, again, I don't think that they're trying to do that. I think that they are themselves misled.

38:40

They themselves have fallen prey to some of the secularism that has really seeped into the church.

38:46

Really, the church has welcomed it in, actually, and that is the syncretism that is present in big evangelicalism that we are trying to kind of look like the world to reach the world.

38:54

I think that is a big piece of it. And so you will hear some truth on her podcast, but something that bothered me was she was talking about divisions in the church, and she talks about that a lot.

39:05

And you can, this is getting back to like what you won't hear at If gathering. She talked about divisions in the church and said, those make her really sad, and that Christians should be unified and have unity.

39:15

But I feel like the thing that's missing is she doesn't have an understanding or doesn't seem to have any clue of how the division that is present in the church could be due to false teaching.

39:25

And so that when you see Christians saying, I divide from that, and I won't welcome that in, it's because we have to divide from error, right?

39:32

We shouldn't be unified under error. We have to be unified under truth. And so Jesus said in Matthew 10, 34 through 36, do not think that I've come to bring peace on earth.

39:41

I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. I have come to set a man against his father and a daughter against her mother and a daughter -in -law against her mother -in -law, and one's foes will be members of one's own household.

39:51

So I think you have to go, well, how do I interpret that scripture with Jenny's kind of big tent revival vision for Christianity when

39:58

Jesus literally is telling us that his word in the gospel is going to divide families, it's going to divide members of churches who don't actually want to hear the true gospel from those who are wolves, who have come in and are preaching a false gospel.

40:12

And I think there's this idea that like any division, anything that causes division is bad and should be avoided.

40:19

And so there's a pursuit of unity, but it's at the expense of truth. So you won't do certain things if it's going to cause division.

40:26

You won't call out false teaching. You won't, you know, say, hey, that's outside the right interpretation of scripture.

40:33

So that's out, you're out. You don't get to be at my event. You don't get to preach on my stage. You don't get to teach the millions of people who are listening and trusting me because I have a responsibility before God, right?

40:43

It's this big tent idea that even if she disagrees with some of those people who she brings in, which maybe she does, there's still a trust that is,

40:52

I think, and a responsibility as a leader that is, I really don't see enough weight being put on that, that like, yikes, you're really bringing in people who are actually bringing, they are the ones bringing division into the church.

41:04

People like LaTosha Morrison, who are creating division amongst believers that Christ has already unified.

41:10

You're not walking in the unity that Ephesians 6 talks about. You are introducing and imposing division where Christ has leveled us all.

41:20

And so I think that, you know, that's what you won't see is you will not see any kind of, anything controversial to our culture.

41:30

So I wholeheartedly agree with Haley's assessment about the unity issue.

41:36

To me, gather 25 here, then hints of the ecumenical one world religion. I mean, only time will tell, but a global gathering of the visible church that is open up to all, that is open up to all sorts of denominations will only slip into opening its doors to other world religions.

41:57

Bad company corrupts good character. 1 Corinthians 15, 33. As leaven leavens the whole lump.

42:03

1 Corinthians 5, 6. And false teaching spreads like gangrene. 2 Timothy 2, 17.

42:10

Especially reeks of doubt in Christ, his commissioning and Christ's sovereignty of building and gathering his church, his way in his time.

42:21

In the parable of the weeds, Jesus explains how the world, his field becomes a mixture of wheat and weeds.

42:30

He put another parable before them saying, the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.

42:37

But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away.

42:43

So when the plants came up more again, then the weeds appeared also. And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, master, did you not sow good seed in your field?

42:52

How then does it have weeds? He said to them, an enemy has done this. So the servants said to him, then do you want us to go and gather them?

43:00

But he said, no, less than gathering the weeds, you root up the wheat along with them.

43:06

Let us, or let both grow together into the harvest. And at harvest time,

43:11

I will tell the reapers, gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned. I gathered the wheat into my barn.

43:18

So scripture is clear that when Christ returns, there will be a harvest, which will involve this separation of the wheat and the weeds or as Jesus informs us in Matthew 25, 31 to 33, kind of separation of his sheep from the goats.

43:33

When Christ returns, there will be a harvesting of his elect, separating the invisible church from the world.

43:41

It will be a gathering of his spotless bride and it will be global. Any man -made global gathering will not be a gathering of the spotless bride because it will have people who call

43:51

Jesus Lord, but we're never really known by him. Matthew 7, 21 to 23.

43:57

When we study the church ecclesiology, we see that there is an infiltration of the church with false gospels, doctrines and teachings brought in by what scripture calls wolves in sheep's clothing,

44:11

Matthew 7, 15. This warning is given only a couple of verses before he explains that there will be people who call him

44:17

Lord, do mighty works in his name, but will not actually know Christ. Because of this, ecclesiology makes a distinction between God's elect and the global church.

44:28

They call God's elect the invisible church and the global church, the visible church.

44:33

In the 1689 London Baptist Confession, it talks about the difference between the invisible and the visible church.

44:40

How even the perfect of congregations are a mixture of sheep and goats and how many local congregations become apostate, but will still try to identify with the visible church.

44:51

This is from the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, the website, the1689confession .com,

45:01

states this, quote, the Catholic or universal church, which with respect to the internal work of the spirit and truth of grace, may be called invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect that have been, are or shall be gathered into one under Christ, the head thereof, and is the spouse, the body, the fullness of him that fills all in all.

45:23

All persons throughout the world, professing the faith of the gospel and obedience unto God by Christ according unto it, not destroying their own profession by any errors, averting the foundation or unholiness of conversation, are and may be called visible saints, and of such ought all particular congregations to be constituted.

45:45

The purest churches under heaven are subject to mixture and error, and some have so denigrated us to become no churches of Christ, but synagogues of Satan.

45:55

Nevertheless, Christ always has had and ever shall have a kingdom in this world to the end thereof of such as believe in him and make profession of his name.

46:05

That was chapters 26, paragraph one to three. So when

46:10

Christ returns, he will separate the synagogues of Satan from the visible church when he separates his sheep from the goats.

46:18

It's one thing to worship at a local congregation or even a conference of Christians and know that there are some who worship with me and do not actually believe in the gospel.

46:26

It's another to attend a worship service or conference and come under the teaching by teachers who

46:33

I know are speaking to tickle itching ears and are currently in unrepentant rebellion.

46:41

Yes, gather 25 will be made up of denominations that hold to scripture alone, but also will be made up of ones who reject the scriptures as complete, sufficient, authoritative, and inerrant.

46:55

It will be a uniting in worship, some denoms that teach false gospels and doctrines of demons with that, with those that hold fast to the gospel and Christ's instructions.

47:05

The desire to bring together church throughout this world is so very enticing.

47:11

The trailer was just done very well to get you to move and be excited and desire to worship as a whole with the global church.

47:25

I watched the IF gathering at the Dickies Arena and they have live videos of groups of IF locals all around the world, showing women worshiping

47:35

God together. There's this feeling of euphoria that comes with singing with large crowds.

47:41

And I have at many times during worship times at my local church, imagined God's elect from all over the globe worshiping him when he returns.

47:49

The feelings become so overwhelming and the tears of joy, peace, love, and amazement,

47:55

I mean, flood me and it really should. But we need to be wary of emotionalism when we're worshiping.

48:03

Having an experience that leads to a form of euphoria with large gatherings, lead people to believe that they are experiencing a move of the

48:10

Holy Spirit. Our feelings are not proof that the Spirit is moving. God's word is.

48:16

Anytime Christ is proclaimed and scripture is taught, we can know with complete certainty that the

48:22

Spirit is at work. He's at work in the one who's declaring his word. Whether people receive it, we don't know.

48:28

That can't be for us to judge and nor do we judge it by our feelings or intuitions that is left to God.

48:34

The other thing is even when I feel convicted and hate my sin and are brought to despair and run to Christ, there's not a feeling of euphoria in that.

48:43

Yet I can know that the Spirit has done his work. And when I receive the grace of God and feel peace and joy because of the work of Christ, there too,

48:51

I know that the Spirit is at work. Notice how what we know the Spirit's work at is guided to us by scripture and is always influenced by scripture.

49:01

People nowadays use their emotions to inform them of some kind of truth. And in the evangelical sphere, emotions and intuitions are now how one discerns a move of the

49:11

Spirit. So the euphoria that is bound to accompany this gathering will bring people to believe that the

49:17

Spirit approves of all that Jamie Allen is doing with this new move with the IF ministry. And then it will drag women and now all wider, broader churches, those gathering to it, to possibly even more deception.

49:32

So this is heavy. I believe souls here are at stake. So for me, till the time that I gather with the

49:41

Universal Church, when Christ has returned and I know I am worshiping in spirit and truth with all of God's elect, all of Christ's sheep, all of my brothers and sisters who worship in spirit and truth with me,

49:53

I wish then to reserve the feeling of euphoria and bliss until then. There's one last thing that came to mind as I was jotting down my notes.

50:03

I thought of God's instructions to the Israelites on discerning false prophets in Deuteronomy 13, 1 -5.

50:11

If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, let us go after other gods which you have not known and let us serve them, you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams.

50:29

For the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

50:35

You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him.

50:43

But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death because he has taught rebellion against the

50:49

Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery to make you leave the way in which the

50:55

Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

51:01

Isn't it interesting the term here being used, dreamer of dreams, just stating. Prophets were the way

51:07

God communicated with his people. And in this passage, we can glean a couple things from what God warns his people about false prophets here.

51:15

First, that there were false prophets or dreamers of dreams that produced signs and wonders that came to pass.

51:22

And second, we are told that if that happens, we are to test the God behind the teachings.

51:28

Is the prophet who had performed a sign or wonder and it came to pass, is that prophet leading people to a different God?

51:34

So Jenny Allen, bear with me here. Jenny Allen received a small voice from heaven suggesting that the vision to equip a generation was given by God himself, right?

51:45

Now we understand sign and wonders to be supernatural in nature. So perhaps there was no supernatural sign that accompanied

51:53

Jenny's vision, but we can't say that her instruction to equip a generation did come to pass.

51:59

It was very successful. And seeker -sensitive purpose -driven pragmatism claims that numbers equals success.

52:07

If it's popular, then it's often taken as a move of God, right, some supernatural move.

52:13

So in a way, I think I could say that Jenny Allen received extra biblical instruction from God to do something, lead others to do the same, and its sign or wonder is its success.

52:25

But here's where we have to dive deeper to see what's behind the natural sign of success.

52:32

What about then the God or gods that these teachers follow? Do those at if present the same

52:38

God as the God of scripture? Well, the God they present to me seems to be okay with them preaching and teaching over men, not the

52:45

God who says he wants a woman to remain quiet and not hold authority or teach over men. The God they present wants them to find them purpose more than fight their sin.

52:54

The God they present wants them to communicate with them through still small voices, spiritual nudges, emotionalism, and their intuition more than rely on the written word to guide and equip them day by day.

53:06

Some of the teachers at if present a God who wants social justice instead of biblical justice. Some present a

53:12

Christ who died to bring social and racial liberation. Some teach that we can know him through knowing ourselves and others instead of knowing him from scripture.

53:22

So see where I'm going here? God is clear and to him, this matters. Why? Because prophets and I had here teachers who present a different God make their disciples leave the way in which the

53:35

Lord, their God commands them to walk. That was verse five. Prophets who have dreams and visions and produce signs and wonders, but lead the people to a different God were sent as a test to see just how well the people knew the true

53:50

God and see if they would hold fast to the instructions God gave them to walk in. So if the teachers at if present different gods, then their gods will bring them to walk differently than scripture tells them to walk.

54:04

So this event may seem unprecedented. It may seem and come off like a revival and a great move of God, but to me there feels like there's something missing.

54:17

It feels like Christ is missing. Christ who we are told in scripture, he will gather his elect.

54:25

And I wonder, is he gonna be there? Because it doesn't seem to me that it will be his work, his gathering, but instead

54:33

Jenny Allen's and those working with her, it'll be their gathering. What should we really think about all of this?

54:41

What should we think about a global gathering of the church? What do you think about what

54:49

Jenny Allen's doing and where she's taking the if ministry? Let's move from a woman's conference to the global conference.

54:58

Before any local congregation should get involved in gather 25, I really think we need to be talking about these issues.

55:04

We should talk about the gathering of a global church in light of all these things that I presented here.

55:16

And we women should have been talking about gather, if gathering from the beginning.

55:23

Some of us have, but it's been very sparse. So I think now that it's going in the direction that it's going, we need to start really talking about these things and presenting these questions.

55:34

So that's what I wanna do in the next episode. I wanna maybe help you and give some practical advice on how to approach the friend who you know, who loves the if gathering, who's heavily involved in it, or even thinking of attending the if locals or doing something with the if ministry or the gather 25.

55:57

But until then, I pray, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the

56:03

Lord, knowing that in the Lord, your labor is not in vain. I pray that God grant you to live in such harmony with one another in accord with Christ Jesus, that together, us globally out in our local churches are one in accord with Jesus Christ.

56:21

Even though we may not gather and see each other in some great global gathering, we are unified together with one voice glorifying the

56:33

God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. And we do this Sunday on the

56:39

Lord's day, every week. I pray the peace of Christ ruling your hearts in which indeed you were called in one body.

56:48

I pray you are in his word. Ladies, thanks for listening or watching this episode of Thoroughly Equipped.

56:58

If this episode blessed you, would you give it a rating or a thumbs up? And if you think

57:03

Thoroughly Equipped is a much needed ministry, consider subscribing. It helps spread the word.

57:09

If you are interested to know more about Thoroughly Equipped, check out the blog, or just find some other great

57:14

Christian resources, you can go to my website at ttew .org.

57:20

You can connect with me on Facebook and Instagram, links in the description below, or email me at melbatost at ttew .org.

57:30

Thoroughly Equipped is part of Striving for Eternity's Christian Podcast Community, a one -stop resource for solid podcasts that can assist you in your

57:38

Christian walk. Check that out at christianpodcastcommunity .org. I pray the

57:43

God of all grace grants you more and more knowledge and understanding of Jesus Christ as the

57:49

Holy Spirit thoroughly equips you through his written word for every good work.