James White | Mary: Another Redeemer?

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02:33

Well, good afternoon. It is always scary to sit there looking at the passcode going

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Am I gonna forget that one day probably will I would imagine that will happen and then we'll all have a very short sermon

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You may have looked at the topic and gone. Well, this is an interesting one

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At least I hope you did Hopefully by the time we get finished you'll understand why this is important to us

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Though I would like to ask how many of you are? Former Roman Catholics Was that about 20 25 percent maybe 20 25 percent?

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Okay. How many of you have Roman Catholic friends and family? Oh That's about 75 percent at least.

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Okay. All right, so obviously This topic is relevant to all of us

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I likewise have Roman Catholic family and certainly know many

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Roman Catholic individuals with with whom I have different levels of communication and and interaction and most of you know that for many years, for example from about 1996 7 somewhere around there till about 10 years later

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We would go to Long Island. We had the great debate series back there where I debated

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Jerry, Matta ticks Robertson Janice, Patrick Madrid all father

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Mitchell Pacwa numerous times Those debates are still I think extremely valuable

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And so obviously I've had a lot of experience Giving what happened last year

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Now Roman Catholicism is the topic that I've debated more often than the others for a few years

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Islam overtook Roman Catholicism, but now Having done at least four debates last year on that subject

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That has has all changed So it is the subject that I have written a number of books on we've talked about it many times in this service

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So why do this again? Well, I Wrote a little book it came out I believe in 1998 or 99 and it was called

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Mary another Redeemer question mark and The background was for those of you who don't remember back my goodness a quarter century or more now

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The Pope for many many years was John Paul the second and He gave some real stability to the

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Roman Catholic Church He did so by one year he would sort of throw something out for the conservatives and they're like, oh, yeah

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And the next year he'd throw something out for the Liberals and they're like, oh, yeah And he just kept doing that because I mean it wouldn't be easy to keep

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Hundreds of millions of people going the same direction in essence. And so there was a pontificate then that lasted a very lengthy period of time and What most people didn't know was that if you looked at his papal coat of arms

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It had a Latin phrase on it totus to us totus to us means totally yours and it was that was the shortened version of totally yours

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Mary it was directed to Mary so so even from the beginning of his reign

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He had made it clear that he was deeply Committed to the

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Virgin Mary and to the Marian dogmas Now, what are the

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Marian dogmas? Well That's part of the problem is that you must understand that in Roman Catholicism you have dogmas and You have doctrines.

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We don't make those distinctions. So I need to make sure that everyone's on the same page You can understand why this is relevant There are certain things that are defined by faith de fide in Roman Catholicism and Once they are defined that way you must believe these things by faith or you are

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You may you may not be externally excommunicated from the

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Roman Catholic Church But you are spiritually Excommunicated from the

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Roman Catholic Church, even if you don't tell anybody if you don't believe these things Then you're separated from the one true church.

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And so what were the what are the Marian dogmas? Well, we all agree on the virgin birth

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The virgin birth is taught in Scripture very explicitly and clearly and so all

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Christians believe with that Then certainly if you like I was raised in a very fundamentalist background

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The next Dogma you would go man. I'm really uncomfortable with that terminology and there's there's reason to be but we need to understand it

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There is a Greek term Normally pronounced today in modern

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Greek as Theotokos. I would pronounce that Theotokos in a more ancient way of doing that but it means

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God -bearer, it means the one who gives birth to God and Initially that term

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Was about Jesus it came out of a controversy. There were there were various groups in the early church and and some of them believed that Jesus was just a man and That may be a divine person or the

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Spirit of God in some special way came upon him and Adopted him as the Son of God But that when

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Jesus was born, he was he was just a human being like anybody else. That was called adoptionism and So then later on hundreds of years after the resurrection there was a controversy with a man named

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Nestorius and There's controversy as to whether he actually believed all these things, but I can't get into all that today but the point is that he objected to the term

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Theotokos and Said we need to use Christotokos that Mary was the mother of the

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Messiah not the mother of God and He was eventually condemned because the idea was was

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Jesus truly God From the time of his conception and hence birth or was that something that comes along at a later time?

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Is there can you break Jesus into a human? part and a divine part and they only come together later on or Since the incarnation is the work of Holy Spirit of God Was he the

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God man from that very point of conception birth? So on and so forth.

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So The the term Theotokos Initially was a statement about Jesus that he was

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God from the point of Conception from the point of birth that we make distinctions that they didn't necessarily make back then because of all the biology we know and things like that, but the other way

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Theotokos is translated is mother of God and Of course, we've all heard that term used over and over again

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Within Roman Catholicism of Mary Mary is the mother of God Now in the historical context you could say yes

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Mary gave birth to the God man Jesus Christ. She didn't give birth to his deity but he was truly the

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God man at that point in time and so As a description of Jesus, that's fine

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But we all know what happened over the many centuries that have come since that period of time That the the meaning of that term shifted and moved away from saying something about Jesus To where now for the vast majority of believing

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Roman Catholics All you've got to do is go a couple hundred miles south of here Go to any major city and you'll see this

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You'll see Mary as a statue being Brought through the streets and people throwing flowers and and you know stars

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Overhead and and all this kind of stuff taking place where mother of God has become a title of Mary's exaltation to the position of Queen of Heaven itself

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So we have to make a distinction We have to say yes If we're talking about who

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Jesus is Then yes, Mary was the mother of God in that sense if we're talking about Mary and an exaltation of Mary That's hundreds of years later.

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And that is where we completely depart from biblical teaching But that is a dogma that Mary is the mother of God.

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So we have to keep that in in mind then starting after the rise of Monasticism the

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Desert Fathers people who would go out and and The Pillar Saints ever heard of the

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Pillar Saints the Pillar Saints were men who would who would build up a pillar? And they would live on top of this pillar and they'd never come down They'd have disciples that would bring them food.

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They would take their waist down for them And things like this and they just keep building these pillars higher and higher and higher till we had you have to go up on Ladders and stuff like that to get up to them and they were considered to be extremely

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Spiritual and and things like that the monastic movement began In the late 2nd century.

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It really flourished in the 3rd century, especially were called the Desert Fathers in Egypt and with that Came an emphasis upon virginity

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With that came a very unbiblical not to be found in the pages of Scripture Doctrine of sexuality a

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Diminishment of the importance of women This is where eventually you're gonna get the

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Discussions in the medieval period as to whether women had souls or not this is where it all begins and it comes out of the monastic movement and So women for example would would be considered specific very specially

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Spiritual if they would mar their natural beauty and they would dress horribly and in rags and things like that So as to not be attractive to men because well when you're a monk

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You don't want to be around attractive women because that's a problem Because they had already ignored the biblical teaching that it's the false teachers that prohibit marriage

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Marriage is is is a picture of Christ in the church. And so what's going on here?

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and so these things are developing and in the midst of that you have the development of the concept of the perpetual virginity of Mary and This actually came from works outside the

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New Testament. It came from works that are tainted by Gnosticism that are a historical and and heretical in so many different ways, but Rome has had to try to Rehabilitate them in essence and the doctrine being that Mary did not have other children and in fact

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Remained a virgin even in the birth of Christ, which if you know anything about human biology is not possible without a miracle and In essence, it would require that we believe that Jesus's birth was not a natural birth

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It was a supernatural birth in the sense that As one of those early documents that deeply influenced the development of these traditions

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There is a blinding bright light and then when the lights the light diminished there was

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Jesus So in other words to use a Star Trek illustration Jesus beamed out of Mary and there he was and therefore she's a perpetual virgin and So that became a dogma.

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There were people who argued against it, but they didn't get very far. They became heretics and so you had the perpetual virginity of Mary and it was it became such a

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Given for so long that even at the time of the Reformation the Reformers were loathe to say anything about it

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Calvin was sort of like Yeah, it's speculation, but I'm not gonna say anything about it it took a few generations in the

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Reformation before someone finally had the The guts to say, you know this Bible says otherwise, you know, these brothers and sisters were not cousins

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It was not all the rest of stuff. Jerome was all wrong about that stuff and eventually Protestants said yeah, no

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But it is a dogma and you have to believe it to be a Roman Catholic then The the next two that have been dogmatically defined took place in relatively recent memory 1854 in 1950 in 1854 the

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Immaculate Conception Was dogmatically defined by the Roman Catholic Church and that is the idea and man

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I've talked to lots of Roman Catholics don't even know what this one is The Immaculate Conception is the idea that at the point of her conception

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Mary was protected by a preemptive application of the merits of her son

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Which means even before he was born obviously, but God can do these type of things

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There is a preemptive application of the merits of Christ to the

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Virgin Mary So that at the point of her conception She did not contract the stain of original sin

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Now it already become very popular There were there were numerous people in the early church that talked about the sins that Mary committed and things like that But that went by the wayside and so certainly by 1854 it was believed within Roman Catholicism that Mary had not sinned personally and Then by defining the

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Immaculate Conception which goes against the teachings of all sorts of people in the ancient church But when you're

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Roman you get to do things like this that Mary was also Protected from the stain of original sin by this application of the merits of Christ.

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So one of the ways that this is described by Roman Catholic defenders is that look if you're if you're walking through the forest and you're on a

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Dark narrow path and you come around a corner and there's a deep mud hole

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Okay, if you you know, cuz Jesus Mary says in Luke chapter 2, she says

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God my Savior Well, why would she say that if she didn't have sin, right? And so the

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Roman Catholic says ah, no Here's here's here's how I need to understand this if you fall into the mud hole and I come along and pull you out

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I am your Savior, but you're now covered in mud But what the

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Immaculate Conception is is that right as you're about to fall in If I reach out and grab you and pull you back from falling in so there's no mud on you

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I'm still your Savior and So the idea is that what Mary was saying when she rejoiced in God my

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Savior Was she somehow understood a doc a dogma that would not be defined for 1 ,800 years in the future that there was this

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Application of Christ's merit to her that kept her from the stain of original sin.

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Okay, so that's That's the the concept in regards to Mary. She is immaculately conceived and then 1950 all right, we're getting to where Most folks that were alive and knew what was going on or getting to be a little on the older side but in 1950

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The Roman Catholic Church defined the bodily assumption of Mary and that is that at the end of her life now

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Rome does not say Whether she died or not You're allowed to hold whatever view you want on that I don't know why she would have died if she had no sin and no original sin because the wages of sin is death, so Not sure how that works.

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But anyway at the end of her earthly course She was bodily assumed into heaven.

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Her body did not experience Corruption and so she was brought directly into the presence of God.

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She of course is a sinless saint And so she is there in the presence of of God now

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What happened back in 1998 to get back to our story here now that you're all experts on the

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Marian dogmas There will be a quiz at the end. You will not be allowed to leave until you can answer all the questions correctly

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Or you have to have a karate fight with Jeff one of the two that's the only way that you can you can get out so You up to that?

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He's ready. He's ready. He's ready to go So and he had so much fun traveling traveling this past week so much fun

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Now, you know why I drive an RV, okay now you understand Cancelled flights how many canceled flights you lost track even

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I'm sorry Too many too many. Okay So anyways, we're giving him a little time off after that wonderful traveling thing

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But we'll get him back to work here pretty soon. So what happened in 1998 is

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Millions of Roman Catholics had signed petitions Asking Pope John Paul II to define

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The next set of Marian dogmas, which are all sort of brought into one

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Popes had been teaching this as doctrine for over a hundred years

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You can go back over a hundred years and actually 125 years and you will find Popes teaching that Mary is

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Comediatrix co -redemptrix for the people of God What's mediatrix?

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That's the feminine form for mediator What's redemptrix? It's the feminine form for Redeemer Comediator co -redeemer with Jesus Okay, but that had never been defined as a dogma

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So you can reject a doctrine and still be a part of the church But you can't reject a dogma and still be a part of church now,

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I realized it today I have a good I have a very strong feeling that The current

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Pope rejects a number of these things at least in the way that they're originally defined so things change over time, but officially and So the speculation was hey

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This is a Pope his papal coat of arms says totus tuus totally yours to marry and we're coming up on the year 2000 this would be the perfect time to define these final

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Marian dogmas. Well, he didn't But in preparation for that I wrote a little book called

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Mary another Redeemer explained all this stuff with a lot more references and That came out like I said 98 and 1999 now, how would you you might sit here and say?

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How could anyone defend the idea? That Mary is Comediatrix Co -redemptrix with Christ I Mean, you know,

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I've been reading through this thing and you know after a certain point in the New Testament the

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Gospels I don't see much about Mary at all How does she become so central within Roman Catholicism?

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Well, I don't want you caught up and this is all leading to another application. So stick with me I don't want you all to get

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You know to miss what's going on here but Fundamentally what you have going on Some biblical passages you may have never heard used this way.

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I want to show them to you So that you won't just be left sitting there staring at the page

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I've never even thought about something like this before Because that's gonna lead us to another statement that is important to our situation

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So look look with me at John chapter 19 John chapter 19 gospel John chapter 19 verse 25

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John chapter 19 verse 25. This is at the crucifixion They've just Cast lots for Jesus's clothing so on and so forth.

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So in John chapter 19 Verse 25 therefore the soldiers did these things but standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and His mother's sister married the wife of Clopas and Mary Magdalene lots of Marys in that group

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When Jesus then saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby

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He said to his mother woman behold your son Then he said to the disciple behold your mother from that hour.

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The disciple took her into his home and So here we have a historical situation.

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John is the only one that tells us about Mary being at the cross Matthew Mark and Luke do not do that ever wondered why that is

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If John is the last gospel to be written

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Then I would suggest that in all probability The reason only

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John mentions this is because John is writing after she has died

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Matthew Mark and Luke are writing before she has died and Therefore it would be dangerous

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To mention her specifically in these contexts Or maybe there might be other reasons why the gospel writers like let's not let's not bring that out at this particular point in time

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I think it's one of the reasons why you have a difference between John and the synoptic Gospels Matthew Mark and Luke is probably

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When people are dying When people are no longer On this earth and therefore you can say certain things about them and they're not really gonna be in any danger after that particular point

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In time, so what Rome does with John chapter 19 if you've never heard this

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John who is the the disciple the disciple whom Jesus loved?

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John represents the church and Therefore what

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Jesus is doing from the cross is He is Establishing a relationship between Mary and the church

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So woman behold your son So Mary here is being elevated To where she is now not just the mother of Jesus.

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She's the mother of all Christians She's the mother of the church woman behold your son and He says to disciple representing all of us behold your mother

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From that hour the disciple took her into his home. Now you and I are sitting there going. Well, wait a minute

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Historically Jesus's brothers are not believers at this point

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They have rejected The testimony of Jesus and go back to John chapter 7 This is something that the gospel

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John also tells us go back to John chapter 7 we see their unbelief in Jesus's Messiah ship.

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There's clearly how would you like to have had a perfect older brother? Okay, you know there was probably some challenges for Joseph and Mary in that context

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But they're not believers. They're not there So what what is

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Jesus doing? He is entrusting his mother to the disciple whom he loved to the disciple whom he had a close a specifically and specially close relationship with to John Who also by tradition anyways is the last of the disciples to die?

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Probably the youngest as well He outruns Peter to the tomb all the rest that kind of fun stuff and so it is said from that hour the disciple took her into his home and Again church history tradition tells us that's what

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John did She was associated with Ephesus where John was also associated as well.

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And so John takes care of Mary so it's a it's a perfectly understandable thing

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We see Jesus doing the right thing in committing his mother to a believing disciple

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Now did some of Jesus's brothers believe later? Yes after the resurrection, but they're not there at the cross and So he commits her to that believing disciple, but what

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Rome does is Even though there's nothing else in the New Testament that even begins to expand upon this or talk about this or anything else

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This is one of the texts that they will point to and you must understand Every single text in the

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New Testament that mentions Mary Has been used and will be used by Roman Catholicism to build a huge edifice of theology

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They have to because there is so little to build upon in the first place. So every text ends up filled with tremendous

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Meaning earlier in the Gospel of John if we go to John chapter 2 Turn me to John chapter 2, you know the story

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The wedding at Cana of Galilee Verse 1 and on the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee and the mother of Jesus was there and both

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Jesus and his disciples were invited to the wedding and When the wine ran out the mother of Jesus said to him they have no wine and she has said to her woman

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What do I have to do with you? My hour has not yet come now. Let me just stop for a second.

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That sounds a little harsh That sounds

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You know, like really Why didn't you say but mom or something along those lines

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It's it just sounds like ouch but What we see when

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Jesus says my hour has not yet come what we see there is that Jesus understands that Mary is

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Wanting him to reveal his Messiah ship now, why do you think she might want that?

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Well, it's pretty obvious that for many years now she has undergone tremendous amounts of Vituperation slander

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She'd walk down the street and everybody well, that's that's her that's that's the one, you know She had that child out of wedlock that kind of thing

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And so she probably does have a real desire for Jesus to reveal himself and for her honor to be reestablished

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And so I think what we see when Jesus says my hour has not yet come Be patient be patient Now is not the time

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Eventually, this is going to be understood So he says woman what I have to do with you.

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My hour is not yet. Come his mother said to the servants Whatever he says to you do it and you know what happens

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They fill the water pots turns into the best wine anyone's ever had and and so on and so forth, so What they do with this is we'll see what

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Mary does is He tells all she tells all the rest of us to obey

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Jesus So whatever he says to you do it now.

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I Agree With Mary Whatever Jesus says to us do it

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But that doesn't put Mary in any particular position of authority That doesn't make her a mediator doesn't make her a co -redemptrix

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It doesn't mean any of that It means that she was wise and correct to tell the people whatever he tells you to do do it

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But once you have exalted Mary Paralleled her in many ways to Jesus.

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So the Jesus is virgin -born. She's immaculately conceived Jesus rises from the dead She's bodily assumed of the heaven so on and so forth

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Once you do that, then you can read a whole lot into that as well

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And so many people say oh, but Mary's role for us is just simply she just leads us to Jesus Well, we'll see whether that's the case or not a little bit later on There just isn't anything else to look at in New Testament the woman in Revelation chapter 12 is either

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Israel the church Early church argued about which one that is, but it certainly wasn't Mary And so you just don't have anything else in the

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New Testament That's why Rome denies sola scriptura. That's why Rome says this is not enough

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You have to have something more than this because this doesn't teach The dogmas that Rome has defined over against the

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Apostolic Church in the early the early period now The clock is moving.

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So let's make application to where we need to be now Some of you

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I imagine a lot of you I would imagine that look apologia is a

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Church that has a great online presence I had a I had a bit of an argument with a woman online this past week and the reason was she said hey,

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I used to follow you and Jeff all the time and She has become she has joined the

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Orthodox Church, she's become Eastern Orthodox, I don't know it's Greek Russian Ukrainian, whatever but I've found the fullness of the truth in the

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Orthodox Church and She described us as an online church and I took real umbrage to that I Said we do not teach that we are an online church.

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We have never said to the people watching through these cameras hey, just send us your money and We'll be your church and you know, don't worry about the the

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Fellowship of the Saints. Don't worry about the Lord's Lord supper We've never done any of that. In fact, we did the exact opposite of that When kovat hit we were like we're not closing

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Because we need to have the supper and you can't have the supper through a camera. It doesn't work that way and So I took real umbrage to the assertion that well, you know online church

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No, you need to be in a solid church and we do not pretend to take the place of The local church.

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We don't want to do that in any way shape or form. So What happened this this church though has a huge presence,

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I Don't know if any of you have been homesick or something like that. And you've maybe tuned in and watched the program, but if you do on YouTube, there's this chat thing over on the side and It's just amazing.

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I've been you know, very frequently. I'm on the road I'll tune in and I'll look at that stuff and I just I want to scream

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Because there's a ninety nine point nine percent chance that I'm not going to be able to get to the church So whatever is being discussed in that chat thing has nothing to do with what

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I'm saying right now It's it's they're fighting and arguing about all sorts of stuff that has nothing to do with what's actually being said

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No one's listening anyhow at that point. So it's it's a bit on the frustrating side, but we all have our social media presence

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We have Apologia radio. We've got sheologians. We've got cultists. You've got all this stuff going on Pastor Luke has started his own

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Program now and and so we we do do a lot of stuff online And that means the majority of you are probably already aware of some of the controversies that can exist online in regards to Us and the things that we say and the things that we do

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So, I don't know how long ago it was and I've never asked But at some point in time pastor

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Jeff was asked to speak at a conference in Texas coming up in April And the name now,

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I don't know if this was the same name at the time The name now is Christ is King defeating trash world

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Defeating trash world. So how how long ago do you think that it was? It was quite a while ago that you were asked to do that and The individual who asked

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Jeff to speak at that conference Was an individual that I had spoken at one of his conferences in May of 2023

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Along with dr. Joe boot. You have heard. Dr. Joe boot preached from this pulpit

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He is the head of Ezra Institute Jeff and I are fellows of that of that Institute along with Andrew Sandlin and people like that and So and they'll many of those will be at reform con coming up and later in April this year as well so So back in 2023 when

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I had spoken there with Joe boot, there was a unity of perspective Now very quickly some of you know that a book came out from Canon Press and of course

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We have close relationships with Canon Press and with Doug Wilson Toby Sumter Gabe chocolate

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Knox We love these guys. We sometimes debate these guys but we have these these conversations we have these connections and So a book came out on Christian nationalism by a man by the name of Stephen Wolfe and Doug Wilson and I did to what we call sweater vest dialogues where we

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Discussed this book and discussed issues related to it And if you go back and listen to what

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I said from the very beginning I was very concerned and I expressed my concerns

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Concerning something called sacralism sacralism is the blurring and the destruction of the the lines that exist between the individual the family the church and the state and sacralism is a term that's been used to describe how

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Roman Catholicism related to Governmental entities during the medieval period all the way up to the time of the

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Reformation the Reformers were sacralist. They continued that That's why you had

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Baptists being Burned by both Roman Catholics and by Calvinists at the same time because of sacralism the the

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Sphere sovereignty of the individual the family the church and the state is blurred in a sacral system and Doug agreed with me and most of the people back then agreed that the only way that you could have a

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Christian nation is if the Puritan hope is fulfilled What do we what's the

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Puritan hope the post -millennial hope? The hope that they'll the time will come

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The son, you know, the father says the son asked me I'll give you the nation's your inheritance The nation's streaming into Jerusalem seeking the

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Torah of God the law of God this is a work of the Spirit of God and It it involves

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Regeneration making true disciples of Jesus Christ and when Doug and I had that conversation he agreed

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That yes, that's the only way this can truly take place is in the fulfillment of the

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Spirit of God Fulfilling those promises bring that bring that To pass the problem is that's not

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Stephen Wolfe's view Stephen Wolfe rejects theonomy

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He rejects post -millennialism. He rejects presuppositional ism and he identifies those of us who hold to the

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Puritan hope and and say at that central as Revivalists is the term that he's used.

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Well, he also uses dumb stupid moronic, but those are other terms. We won't really get into right now but he calls this revival ism and he rejects it and that book has created tremendous divisions now amongst the reformed community and So those who once agreed with us in May of 2023 when

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I spoke at that conference in Georgetown, Texas There would have been complete agreement on The the

40:40

Puritan hope and and all the rest of stuff a number of people are changing their views

40:45

They're adopting Stephen Wolfe's view. They are rejecting theonomy presuppositional ism post -millennial ism and they're

40:53

Adopting the idea that you can have Christian princes without the

40:58

Spirit of God actually changing people's hearts and so the defeating trash world conference

41:08

Jeff Removed his name from being a part of the conference primarily because the way that Stephen Wolfe had treated me

41:17

He can be very acerbic in his perspectives. And so just like you know,

41:23

I'm really not comfortable Being in a conference in a situation with someone with the main speakers who has treated one of my fellow elders the way that Stephen Wolfe has and obviously since then more has taken place that has demonstrated the wisdom of Jeff's not being a part of that particular conference, but here's where it all starts to fit together

41:47

Who was Jeff replaced by? well Initially, they just you know,

41:54

Photoshop is so great You can just make people disappear I'm not sure if maybe a part of Jeff's finger was still in the graphic or something like that But you can pretty much erase anything out of a out of a graphic with Photoshop But very shortly after Jeff was removed from the conference at his own request

42:14

It was announced that there might be another big name that will be attending the conference and I I remember going hmm,

42:22

I wonder who that might be and So just a matter of weeks ago, well, maybe a month and a half ago or so now

42:28

I forget exactly what it was the announcement was made that the person that they're referring to the big name who would now be speaking at the defeating trash world conference is

42:42

Calvin Robinson Calvin Robinson or as he likes to call himself father

42:48

Calvin Robinson and I knew who he was I Had seen him.

42:54

Maybe some of you two did back during kovat Back then he was an

43:00

Anglican in the UK with a massive afro

43:06

I mean like like 1970s basketball player size.

43:12

Okay, you know I mean you jump up in the air and you actually get far you can go farther because it keeps you up It's like a parachute.

43:20

It's huge massive And I can't do that obviously, which is why I'm not in the

43:25

NBA, but anyway, no, that's not the only reason I'm not in the NBA. There's a lot of other reasons why I'm not in the NBA. Anyway, I remember seeing him and He was saying really conservative stuff and he was you know defending freedom and liberty and stuff like that and I remember thinking to myself now

43:47

Wait a minute if he's in the UK and he's an Anglican That must mean and he's saying all this conservative stuff.

43:56

That must mean he is a conservative Evangelical Anglican now you need to understand there are conservative evangelical

44:04

Anglicans in the world We're so used to the Episcopalians in in in the

44:10

United States that went to the moon many many decades ago that we don't know this but When I first started going to Australia in like 2000

44:22

It's before 2010 it might have been into that I forget exactly what my first trip down there was Oh, it had to be before 2010 because I remember calling my mom from Australia and she died in January of 2010

44:32

So sometime around 2008 2009 I made my first trip down there. Guess who brought me down there

44:39

Conservative Anglicans and I preached only in Anglican churches and I lectured at Moore College which is an

44:46

Anglican University and they had me preach on justification and the inerrancy of Scripture and We we have so much in common

44:57

I have a picture of me and the dear brother that brought me down there the first time and and We're standing next to their little baptismal font.

45:04

That's about you know, it's about this tall about that big you can't get into it It's it's not like that back there and And I'm sort of going like this at him and he's only going this at me and there's a baptismal font in between So we know we disagree but they had me preaching on justification and the inerrancy of Scripture and the inspiration of Scripture and all the rest of this kind of stuff and so many of you have read

45:25

JC Riles book the Holy Holiness and he was an Anglican and so there we sort of think of the

45:33

JC Riles type of Anglican the problem is there aren't many of them in the

45:39

UK. They're primarily in Australia and in Africa a lot of the

45:45

Anglicans in Africa most everybody in Africa is quite conservative whether United Methodist or whatever else it is that Common sense still seems to dwell in Africa for some reason

45:56

There are a few but there they're rare. And so I made the assumption in Listening to this man speak.

46:04

I'll bet you he's a JC Ryle type conservative Anglican. I didn't dig into it any more than that And I've never had any

46:12

I did not have any communication with him until just recently We never did anything with him.

46:18

I never recommended him I just knew that he was there and I made that assumption. Well other people made the same assumption so I see that he is going to be at the defeating trash world conference and I'm like Okay, well, all right, like I said, he he speaks conservatively and things like that and then

46:43

I saw a tweet I know they may not be called tweets anymore but look

46:49

I What else you can call it a post on X? I mean, that's not nearly as fun as tweet personally.

46:56

So anyway There is a young man named Anthony on Twitter and I've run into him before He's a

47:03

Roman Catholic and what he likes to do is he likes to throw out statements, you know a single short sentence statement

47:10

That is just so wild that it gets a tremendous amount of engagement and Evidently, I guess now on Twitter.

47:19

I'm not sure how this works because I have not monetized my account If you get people to retweet your stuff

47:27

Who have lots of followers you make more money? And I guess there are people making thousands and thousands of dollars a month on Twitter now

47:35

Wow, okay I I just don't feel comfortable doing that. So we're not doing that. But anyway, he throws out this statement ready?

47:43

Here's this this is where it all ties together He throws out the statement the thief on the cross

47:52

Was saved through the prayers of Mary The thief on the cross was saved through the prayers of Mary now

48:06

I Had never heard anyone make that statement It didn't

48:11

Massively shock me Because You know,

48:18

I've learned a lot about Marian dogma in Roman Catholicism, I'll be reading you a couple prayers here

48:23

They'll give you an idea before we wrap up But still I had actually never heard even in talking with Roman Catholics even debating the subject

48:33

I had never heard anyone say That the thief on the cross was saved through the prayers of Mary.

48:39

There's nothing in the New Testament that even suggests such a thing There's nothing in the early church. I had never read anything and I had to read

48:46

I didn't bring it with me There's a book called the glories of Mary By Alphonsus de Liguri a doctor of the

48:52

Roman Catholic Church over 800 editions of the book and I had to read that entire thing in writing Mary another

48:58

Redeemer. It was one of the most spiritually oppressive things I've ever done to be honest with you. It's just it's unbelievable it's horrific and I didn't even remember in Liguri ever having heard anyone say something like that and So it's it's again it's it's a short one -sentence thing you throw out there and what

49:21

I see is Calvin Robinson Retweeting it with the comment.

49:27

I don't remember which came first. It was either Mary pilled period based or based

49:35

Mary pilled one of the two You know all this, you know, they can't actually speak English on Twitter any longer

49:42

You have to throw all this weird stuff in there just to prove how cool you are but Anyway, it's also to make the the boomers get exposed themselves for being

49:53

Boomers and actually want people to speak English for some weird reason. But anyway Based and Mary pilled in other words.

50:01

He was agreeing with the assertion that the thief on the cross

50:08

Was saved Through the prayers of Mary Now I've even talked to some

50:15

Roman Catholics. I have Roman Catholic a priest friend of mine that we we chatted about this briefly and Even he said this is just pure speculation.

50:28

I Mean, this is this is certainly not anything that is officially taught. You don't have to believe anything like this

50:33

It's just it's pure speculation and it is it's not a dogma or anything like that, but the idea of Mary being an intercessor is

50:47

Fundamental to Roman Catholic theology If you read Liguri's book, the regular description is that Mary is the neck

50:59

That that turns the head of God's grace all God's grace flows to mankind only through Mary Never in any other way and therefore the idea of Praying to her and seeking your intercession committing yourself to her

51:20

Yes, that is very very much a part of Marian theology Well little old me

51:30

Went Okay, I've got a question Can that theology defeat trash world?

51:43

because The idea had been up till now You defeat trash world how?

51:50

through the gospel of Jesus Christ What what has set? EAN apart

51:58

From the the standard pro -life world out there the assertion

52:06

That the only power that can actually end abortion is the gospel of Jesus Christ It's not political expediency.

52:15

It's not getting the right people to vote in certain contexts and It is bringing the gospel to bear when we're when you're out at the at the abortion mill

52:27

What are we doing we're proclaiming the gospel We are calling people to repentance

52:35

What are the Catholics doing? They're fingering their rosaries. They're praying to Mary Okay, so We're consistent and where we come down on this issue

52:47

The gospel is what changes things. So how do you defeat trash world?

52:52

What's trash world? gay mirage Homosexuality pedophilia all the the the if Christ taught it was good.

53:01

We're gonna deny it secular humanism of our day So How do you defeat that and if everybody initially that was invited to this conference?

53:15

Were reformed men members of reformed churches Then how do you fit

53:23

Calvin Robinson? Who believes that it's good to believe that the thief on the cross was saved through the prayers of Mary?

53:32

into that context is That the gospel that can defeat trash world

53:40

That's the question I've asked that question. I've asked that question of the leaders of the conference

53:45

I've asked that question of people who are attending it and so far all I get our little winky memes in response

53:53

No direct response, though. I would think it is just so plainly obvious That this has to be addressed

54:01

Now it's interesting Calvin Robinson has been very very upset by how he has been treated and By people saying that that's the false gospel and all the rest that kind of stuff

54:12

He he he went on to talk about how Luther is a heretic and Calvin is a heretic and and he's called for people to pray

54:20

Rosaries for their reformed brethren so that Mary would soften our hearts and save us

54:27

So it's pretty straightforward he is actually he's left the Anglican Church He has become an old

54:32

Catholic which is weird because an old Catholic believes all the stuff that Rome teaches except for being in submission to the

54:41

Pope now Francis I get it, but this goes back a lot farther than that and So it's a it's weird because a lot of the

54:49

Marian dogmas really came about because of papal authority But he's not in submission to the

54:54

Bishop of Rome as the infallible vicar of Christ I don't understand how any of that works But what he has said he has come out and said you know what because what happened let me back up just a second

55:05

There's a conference in Ohio in March with people that you know that we know and have had association with and meetings with and things like that and he was supposed to be a part of that and They all of a sudden started seeing all this stuff, and they're like oh

55:23

No boy, they made the exact same assumptions that I did That he was a conservative that he was an evangelical and once they realized wow he's into everything soteriologically

55:39

That the Reformation was opposed to They all sudden realized ah we need to we need to withdraw our invitation to him to be a part of this conference in March and they did and So he has said as a result of that.

55:53

I'm not gonna have anything to do with these people anymore I'm not going to go to anything that is not

56:00

Apostolic now. I know what apostolic tradition means and what he means by that But there ain't no way on God's green earth that you're gonna describe the

56:13

Christ is King defeating trash world conference as apostolic it's

56:20

Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists, that's all that's the only people I know that are gonna gonna be there, so I Do have some questions as to whether he's going to be speaking there or not

56:34

I don't know. Well, we'll find out but the questions need to be asked because the question truly is

56:42

Is it the gospel? that's gonna change this world or Is it getting as big a group of people together as you can and Minimizing the gospel down to as small as it can be because this is something

56:56

I have spoken against for ever. I Have spoken against mere

57:02

Christianity forever. What do I mean by that? Now? I know Doug uses that term. He uses it in a different way

57:09

There are those who would say look we need to get as big a political coalition together as we can

57:16

Therefore what we'll do is we'll identify as a Christian anyone who is

57:24

Trinitarian Sort of you don't have to be specific about that Trinitarian believes in the death barrel and resurrection of Jesus and that's it

57:36

We can't talk about the gospel because we can't get enough unity on that one So we can talk about the resurrection, but we can't talk about what it means

57:45

When you're talking about the death of Jesus, we can't talk about what it means and So there's lots of people and that's what they want to do.

57:52

That's how they want to define Christianity get it as narrow as possible so there's as little to shoot at as possible and there's as little to disagree on as possible and say that's how we'll get everybody together and We've always said you can't do that Galatians doesn't allow you to do that Paul thought the gospel is enough to anathematize entire populations of the churches in Galatia So we can't do that.

58:23

We can't that's not an apostolic thing to do So, how do you defeat trash world? well we believe it's by the gospel, but we don't believe that it's by a

58:34

Gospel that includes the idea of the mediation of Mary Jesus Saved the thief on the cross because Jesus can do that.

58:45

He's the perfect Savior He did not have to have Mary praying for him to do that So, let me wrap up by reading you two prayers

58:56

I Hesitate to do this, but you need to understand That I'm not just making this stuff up.

59:02

All right This first prayer is one you've probably heard me Say Before I Was hospital chaplain at Thunderbird back then it was

59:13

Thunderbird Samaritan now. It's a banner Thunderbird, whatever it is over there on Thunderbird Road 57th

59:20

Avenue some around that area and One of my jobs as the chaplain back in the 90s was to Pick up all the

59:31

Watchtower and awake magazines the Jehovah's Witnesses kept dragging into the hospital by the time I got done

59:36

I literally had a stack of Watchtower and wakes that were that tall in the corner of my office at the hospital and So I went into the little chapel.

59:45

It's all been that the hospital is three times larger now that was back then maybe bigger I Walked into the little chapel one day and now the corner of my eye

59:55

I caught I almost brought it with me because I still Have it. I caught something stuck in one of the little chairs.

01:00:01

I Pulled it out and it was a little about yay big Booklet of prayers to Mary And indulgences and stuff like that and I sat down and I opened it up and The first prayer

01:00:19

I read was this one and I quote Oh mother of perpetual help

01:00:27

Thou art the dispenser of all the goods which God grants to us miserable sinners And for this reason he has made thee so powerful

01:00:35

So rich and so bountiful that thou mayest help us in our misery Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee

01:00:47

Come then to my help dearest mother for I recommend myself to thee in Thy hands

01:00:54

I place my eternal salvation Catch that in thy hands.

01:01:00

I place my eternal salvation and to thee do I entrust my soul Count me among thy most devoted servants take me under thy protection and it is enough for me

01:01:14

For if thou protect me dear mother, I fear nothing that keep track of what you don't fear if you're committed to Mary I fear nothing not from my sins

01:01:25

Because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them nor from the devils

01:01:32

Because thou are more powerful than all hell together Nor even from Jesus My judge himself, so what are you not afraid of?

01:01:46

sins devils and Jesus Nor even from Jesus my judge himself why because by one prayer from thee

01:02:00

He will be appeased You need

01:02:06

Mary to appease Jesus for you But one thing

01:02:11

I fear That in the hour of temptation, I may neglect to call on thee and thus perish miserably

01:02:17

Obtained for me then the pardon of my sins love for Jesus Final perseverance and the grace always to have recourse to thee

01:02:28

Oh mother of perpetual help now if you're not a former

01:02:34

Roman Catholic and You've not had a lot of dialogue through Roman Catholics. You're probably sitting there going

01:02:42

What and that's what I did. I sat there going what? And only a few months later

01:02:49

I found myself in the radio studio of W EZE in Boston, I was doing a debate at Boston College With Jerry Matta ticks who is

01:03:02

Jerry Matta ticks Jerry Matta ticks was John Gerstner's favorite student you know,

01:03:09

John Gerstner was RC Sproul's mentor and Jerry Matta ticks was the first ordained

01:03:16

PCA minister to ever convert to Roman Catholicism He was The big guy at Catholic answers as far as the the star convert back in those days

01:03:27

And we were debating at Boston College. So we were on the radio and I brought that little booklet with me and I figured that Jerry's response to my reading.

01:03:38

That was gonna be Oh James that's just piety. It's nothing, you know, all the rest of stuff.

01:03:44

So I read that on the air on W EZE And I'll never forget I looked across there all these microphones in the way and Jerry's over across from me

01:03:55

Janine Graff was the host she was sitting over to my left and I looked at him and he looked through those that farm of microphones and he said on the air.

01:04:06

He said James I Pray for the day when you'll be able to pray that prayer with me.

01:04:14

I was stunned. I Did not yet know in 1993 how widespread and Deeply definitional the

01:04:24

Marian dogmas are within Roman Catholicism, but they are But they are

01:04:30

Amazing thing. Let me read you one more. Oh mother of my

01:04:37

God and my lady Mary as a poor wounded and loathsome wretch presents himself to a great

01:04:44

Queen I Present myself to thee who art the Queen of heaven earth, by the way, these are both found in Alphonsus de

01:04:53

Liguri's books glories of Mary you go. Well, is that official? They made

01:04:58

Liguri a doctor of the church Thomas Aquinas is a doctor of the church There aren't that many doctors in church

01:05:03

If you're made a doctor the church you are being put forward as a leading representative of what that church believes and that book has gone through 800 editions

01:05:15

So yes This is one of the people that would be being read

01:05:21

By John Paul the second and by Benedict and by Francis as well. They all know

01:05:28

This is where it's found. I Present myself to thee who are the Queen of heaven and earth

01:05:34

From the lofty throne on which thou art seated Do not disdain

01:05:39

I pray thee to cast thy eye upon me a poor sinner God hath made thee so rich in order thou mayest succor the needy and hath made the

01:05:48

Queen of mercy That thou mayest help the miserable Look upon me then and have pity on me look upon me and do not leave me until thou has changed me from a sinner into a saint

01:05:59

Who does that by the way? It's the Spirit of God. I See, I merit nothing or rather I merit for my ingratitude to be deprived of all the graces which by thy means

01:06:10

I have received from the Lord Notice how everything comes to Mary But thou who art the mother of mercy does not require merits

01:06:18

But miseries that thou mayest succor those who are in need and who is more poor and more needy than I Oh Glorious Virgin.

01:06:27

I know that thou being Queen of the universe Art also my queen and I in a more a special manner would dedicate myself to thy service

01:06:38

That thou mayest dispose of me as Seamus best to thee

01:06:47

Therefore I say to thee with so the st. Bonaventura. Oh lady I submit myself to thy control that thou mayest rule and govern me entirely

01:06:57

Do not leave me to myself rule me. Oh my queen and do not leave me to myself

01:07:02

Command me employ me as thou wilt and punish me if I do not obey thee

01:07:09

For very salutary will be the punishments that come from thy hand I would esteem it a greater thing to be thy servant then

01:07:16

Lord of the whole earth Thine I am save me accept me. Oh Mary for thy own and attend to my salvation as I am thine own

01:07:24

I no longer will be my own I give myself to thee and if hitherto I have so poorly served thee having lost so many good occasions of honoring thee

01:07:33

For the time to come I will unite myself to thy most loving and most faithful servant No one from this time henceforth shall surpass me in honoring and loving thee my most lovely

01:07:45

Queen This I promise. I hope to perform with thy assistance Amen, I have said

01:07:57

Ever since I as I said had to read this horrific book One simple thing what

01:08:04

I saw what I mentioned in my book What you have is

01:08:11

Jesus as the wrathful judge causing fear and so what you do is you go to the meek and mild motherly

01:08:21

Mary and By one prayer from him that mean

01:08:26

Jesus will be appeased That's what you have page after page after page.

01:08:36

I don't know if we have any Roman Catholics here today but let me tell you something you do not need a mediator with the mediator

01:08:48

You do not have to have someone to try to convince Jesus to be nicer to you if you don't know

01:08:59

Jesus as the one mediator between God and man who does not share his mediation and cannot share his mediation because Jesus's mediation between God and man is based upon his perfect self giving on the cross of Calvary Jesus has the basis to mediate

01:09:21

Because he is the perfect man gave his life Mary has no basis for mediation.

01:09:28

She did not give her life for you She was not a sinless queen of heaven. And so there's one mediator and he says come unto me

01:09:39

Not my mother Come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden.

01:09:45

I will give you rest If you've been deceived Into thinking that you need a mediator with the mediator

01:09:55

You need to come to know the mediator himself and I call you to him. I invite you to him he says he's meek and lowly and gentle in heart, but let me make this application and we close a gospel

01:10:14

That does not recognize the singular authority of Jesus Christ That confuses the work of the

01:10:23

Holy Spirit with the work of Mary a Gospel that would say the thief on the cross was saved by the prayers of Mary is

01:10:33

Not the gospel that will defeat trash world. It's not the gospel is going to change this world

01:10:39

It's not the gospel. It's ever preached from this pulpit or ever will be The reason we stand for the gospel the reason that we say we must stand firm on these things is

01:10:52

Because once you make that kind of change it completely changes the gospel itself If you go to Galatians chapter 2, what did

01:11:00

Paul say? We didn't put up with these people for even a minute why so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you there should be nothing more precious to us than the truth of the gospel and Therefore when we hear it being compromised

01:11:17

We should be quick to bring correction quick to pray for those Who are deceived by these things because it is?

01:11:26

Deception it truly truly is Let's pray together. I have my father.

01:11:33

We do. Thank you We thank you for the gospel. We thank you that you have preserved it for us in the pages of your scriptures

01:11:41

And we pray for those who have been given a false gospel and a false understanding That they might come to know the mediator as he truly is

01:11:54

Father we pray that by your spirit You will indeed draw your people unto yourself

01:11:59

Draw the nations to the foot of the cross May they bow the knee and confess

01:12:05

Jesus Christ as Lord We pray for that. We know you have that power to do that We know that you'll do it through the gospel.

01:12:15

May we love that gospel proclaim it fearlessly and Faithfully and truly to your honor and glory.