My Response to Michael Brown's Invitation

Hello ladies and gentlemen, my name is Justin Peters. I hope that this finds you and yours doing well, and I want to thank you for joining me. Yesterday I received an email from Dr. Michael Brown and in this email he gave me a little video excerpt from one of his recent programs in the line of fire in which he extended to me an invitation to have a public discussion with him about divine physical healing.

He noted that he has offered to debate me before in years past on the continuance or lack thereof of the apostolic gifts, the sign gifts. Of course, Dr. Michael Brown is a charismatic and he believes that all of these gifts continue.

I as a cessationist believe that the apostolic gifts and only the apostolic gifts by the way have have ceased tongues, interpretation of tongues, miracles, and physical healing. He rightly said that I've declined that invitation, and I did.

I did so for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that that debate has been done. He's already had that debate with Dr. James White, and so I didn't really see much point in going over that again.

We have very different views on that issue, but he's had that debate before. But as best I understand it, this new invitation is not a debate. I think he wants to have a discussion about physical healing.

So he extended this invitation to me publicly on his program in the line of fire and also on Twitter, which I find a little bit ironic because he has blocked me on Twitter. As best I understand it, he's blocked me from because of what some others have said in my defense that he took issue with, I guess.

But as I don't think really what I have said myself, as best I understand it. But at any rate, I did find it a little bit odd that he put this invitation to me up on Twitter when I'm blocked from his Twitter.

But let me, I do have a screenshot of it that someone sent to me, so let me read this to you. In his tweet, he says,. Here's my practical appeal to Justin Peters. Let's discuss the question of divine healing together in a public setting from a pastoral and biblical perspective.

Why not?

Well,.

Dr. Brown, I'm going to have to respectfully decline your offer to do this and the primary reason for declining your offer is that one word that you yourself used, pastoral. The Bible, as you know, gives a number of qualifications for elders or pastors.

Among them found in 1 Timothy chapter 3 is that elders or pastors are to be above reproach, they are to be temperate, they are to be respectable, and they are to be able to teach sound doctrine. Also in chapter 3, we see that an elder must not be a new convert.

Now, I don't think Paul primarily has in mind a time frame there when he talks about a new convert, though within certain, you know, reasonable limitations, of course, you wouldn't want someone who's been converted for a day being an elder in a church, obviously, but I think what he primarily has in view there is not so much a time frame, but rather spiritual maturity, and the reason, one of the reasons that I say this is because we actually see in the New Testament some of the churches that Paul planted within just a couple of short years, two or three years, were being led by men that had been converted under his preaching when he came in and planted the church.

So not so much a time frame, but rather spiritual maturity. Elders are not to be immature believers, and we also know from Scripture that one of the marks of a mature Christian is a discerning Christian, and we see this in Hebrews chapter 5.

One cannot be a mature Christian, a mature believer, and lack theological, spiritual discernment at the same time, and so that is another one of the qualifications, and there also in Titus chapter 1, Paul, in his letter to Titus, he reiterates many of these same qualifications, including being able to teach sound doctrine, as he said in 1st Timothy chapter 3.

So he reiterates that, but he adds this, too, able to teach sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict, and Dr. Brown, as you know, one of my chief criticisms of you is that you have been unwilling to call out by name the most egregious, the most brazenly obvious, false prophets, heretics, and charlatans in your own movement, the charismatic movement.

Just a few examples of this. You have recently referred to Kenneth Copeland as your brother, your brother in Christ. Kenneth Copeland is obviously a false prophet. He has offered and uttered many, many false prophecies.

He has uttered some of the most jaw-dropping heresies that you could even imagine, just brazen, brazen heresies, and as if that were not enough, he compounds the error not only by teaching these blood-curdling heresies, but actually ascribes God as the source of these heresies.

He's guilty, of course, of teaching blatant and egregious prosperity theology, and I will say in fairness that you have publicly said you do not agree with some of the more extreme teachings of prosperity, but nonetheless, Kenneth Copeland is a false prophet by every biblical criterion of the term.

If Kenneth Copeland is not a false prophet, then the term truly has no meaning, and yet you call him your brother in Christ. It's very well known that you are close friends with Sid Roth. He's a close personal friend of yours.

Sid Roth, on his program, entitled It's Supernatural, has just the most loony-tune, wing-nut people on his program. I mean, just lunacy on his program. He has recently had a lady on his program who claims that when she plays her violin, it's so anointed that people age in reverse.

He regularly has people on his program who claim to get dreams and visions from God, and they shuttle back and forth to heaven. One of the more shocking things that I've seen on Sid Roth's program was just last year, in February of 2018, and Sid Roth is reenacting a tale from being told by Smith Wigglesworth's granddaughter, an account that supposedly happened in Smith Wigglesworth's ministry in which Smith Wigglesworth was presented with a baby by a young couple, their little baby who was sick, and Smith Wigglesworth claims that God told him to throw the baby, two-month-old baby, throw the baby against the wall, and did so, and Sid Roth reenacts this, and when the baby hit the wall, it fell to the floor, of course, and then Smith Wigglesworth went up and kicked the baby like a soccer ball.

This is one of your friends. I mean, you cannot... Honestly, if my life depended on it, I could not come up with nuttier and more disturbing claims than what is regularly paraded on Sid Roth's program, It's Supernatural.

You have also affirmed Benny Hinn as your brother in Christ, and everything that I said about Kenneth Copeland is true of Benny Hinn, and Benny Hinn has not repented of his error. That's a whole other discussion.

Recently, you had a picture, you posted a picture of yourself with Todd White, and you said in this, I guess it was Instagram or something, but I came across this, you said, my first time meeting Todd White.

He has a wonderful heart for the Lord. Dr. Brown, Todd White is a heretic. He's a heretic. He is a heretic. He is a false prophet. He claims that God speaks to him when he clearly does not. Everything that I've said about Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn are true of Todd White, and Todd White, he's also just a rank charlatan.

He's a he's a charlatan. One of the things for which he is most well known is going out on the streets and going up to people at random and healing them, and one of the most common ailments that apparently is.

Just.

Endemic in the United States is that practically everyone is walking around with one leg a little bit shorter than the other one, and he has a person sit down in a chair, and he takes one of each of their feet in his hands, kneels down, and he commands the shorter leg to grow, and sure enough, you see this on camera, and the person's shorter leg grows by just about that much.

He commands a leg to grow, and he can do this, and he has 100 success at this. This is a parlor trick. Charlatans have been doing this for decades, and it's a trick. I know exactly how he does it. In fact, this trick has been exposed on the American Gospel DVD that Brandon Kimber put out earlier this year.

Now, this is where we can see what's really going on here. The leg on our right is supposed to be the short leg, and this is the leg which should be miraculously growing,.

But it's not.

Look at the leg on our left. That's where all the action is. That's what's actually being manipulated. You can see that Todd is actually pivoting or shifting the foot of the so-called long leg so that the heels match.

Now, he's doing this very slowly over time, but it's painfully obvious when you speed up the clip.

It's a complete fraud. He's a complete fraud, and he knows what he's doing. It is deliberate, intentional deception, and yet you say he has a heart for God. Dr. Brown, men who intentionally deceive people do not have a heart for God.

If Todd White could command a leg to grow, then surely he could command cancer cells to die. So why doesn't he go to the hospital and command those cancer cells to die? Why doesn't he go to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital and heal those sick and dying kids of cancer?

Why doesn't he do that? Because he's a fraud, and he knows he's a fraud, and you, sir, should know that he is a fraud. You endorse and call as brothers some of the most obvious false teachers out there in the charismatic movement, which brings me to my discussion of another Todd, Todd Bentley.

There was a fresh wave of allegations that came out in the last month or so as of this recording against Todd Bentley. Very serious allegations of moral failings in a number of different ways, and these allegations were not surprising at all.

They were about as surprising to me as the sun coming up in the east every morning. It just did not surprise me, and I don't think it should have surprised anyone. But very serious allegations, and apparently you were asked to be a part of a panel investigative team to look into these accusations against Todd Bentley to see which ones are true, which ones are not.

Todd Bentley has already admitted that at least many of them are true. He says some are not, but some or many of them are. But very, very serious, disqualifying accusations, and so this team, this panel of which you are a part, will be looking into this, and I want to read just a little bit and a little excerpt from a statement that you put up about this issue.

You write, We will be working with an investigator who will help us vet all charges. The panel of leaders will then review the evidence and make a determination of guilt or innocence in accordance with the facts presented.

Based on that determination, conclusions will be made in terms of how the charges against Todd have been handled, whether he should be in ministry, and whether others are guilty of falsely accusing him or misrepresenting the facts.

The key phrase there for me is whether he should be in ministry. Dr. Brown, as you know, Todd Bentley burst onto the scene in 2008, the Lakeland Revival at Ignited Church in Lakeland, Florida, pastored by Stephen Strader, and he burst onto the scene there in 2008, and this incredible quote-unquote revival started amazing claims of healings and miracles, and he says that 31 people were raised from the dead, even though when the news asked for proof of that, none was given because they had no proof of it.

False claims, false miracles, false claims of miracles and healings, and false claims of people being raised from the dead. But I went to several days of this meeting back in 2008. I was actually there for three days of this and see for myself what was going on, because this was the hottest thing going in the charismatic movement, as you know, in 2008.

And there was a who's who of the Word Faith slash New Apostolic Reformation, even though you say you're not convinced that that's a real thing, trust me that it is. Who's who of the leaders of this movement were there?

Bill Johnson, pastor of Bethel Church in Redding, California. Bill Johnson was there. John Arnott was there. Stacy Campbell was there. Che Ann was there, and all of these people prophesied over Todd Bentley, and they prophesied things like that God was going to bring about a great worldwide revival through Todd Bentley.

He was considered to be an apostle and all this, just Todd Bentley was the hottest thing going. And it turns out that the entire time this Lakeland supposed revival was going on,.

Excuse me,.

Todd Bentley was drinking heavily, he was drunk, and he was having an affair with a female member of his staff named Jessa, and this was exposed. This came out, made the news, and this was exposed, and this whole Lakeland thing just kind of imploded.

But when it came out that he was having an affair with a female member of his staff, who we now know as Jessa, rather than repent of his adultery and go back to his wife, Shona, he divorced his wife. He left his wife, who, by the way, is handicapped.

Shona Bentley had cancer when she was a teenager, bone cancer, and they had to remove her knee. Shona Bentley has no knee in her left leg. It's just a steel rod, last I heard anyway, a steel rod. You can see video of her as she walks.

Her left leg does not bend because she doesn't have a knee. So rather than repent of his adultery and go back to his wife and his family, he divorced her. He divorced Shona, and he married this woman, Jessa, with whom he was having an affair, proved himself to be the false prophet that he is.

And not only that, by extension, he also proved all of the prophets, quote-unquote, who prophesied over him, proved them to be false prophets because they falsely prophesied over Todd Bentley. And I'm struck by the fact that all of these leaders in Word Faith and NAR and, you know, Bill Johnson and John Arnott, Cheyenne, all these guys, and Stacey Campbell, all these people who claim to hear God speak to them regularly, claim to get dreams and visions from God regularly, could not see what was going on right under their own noses with Todd Bentley.

So he proved them to be false teachers, false prophets as well. Todd Bentley, that's one of the issues with Todd Bentley, but Todd Bentley is truly the most bizarre, deranged, violent, false teacher in the charismatic movement.

Todd Bentley is known for, and this is not hearsay, it's on video, that he claims that God spoke to him and told him to kick an elderly woman in the face with his biker boot. He claims he was sucked up into heaven through a pillar of fire, found himself in heaven, laying down on an operating table in heaven, and they proceeded to do surgery on him in heaven, cut him open from basically the base of his neck down to his belly button, all his insides gushed out.

He makes this claim, it's on video. Claims that God spoke to him and told him to slap an elderly woman in the face. That's different from the older woman that he kicked in the face with his biker boot.

This is another woman that God also told him to slap in the face, a woman in her 70s. God told him to slap her in the face.

And I was in a meeting, it was about 11 o 'clock at night, everybody was just about gone home, and this little sweet old lady, you know 70-something years old, comes in and she's just sweet as grandma pie.

And she knew I was tired and the meeting was over and she was standing in the back of the church, they had the door shut and locked into the kitchen. She's standing in the hallway, and she says, man of God, do you have anything left?

Can you just pray for me, please? And I thought, oh this sweet little grandma needs prayer. I'm gonna pray for grandma. And so I lifted my hand up, and I laid hands on her and prayed for her, and the Lord said, no, no, I want to touch her right now.

She needed to be healed, some kind of chronic arthritis or something. The Lord said, I want you to slap her in the face. I said, God, you want me to slap grandma in the face? He said, that's right, just slap her in the face.

So I took my hand and I went, BAM! And I just slapped her across the face. Literally, she was picked up off of the ground, flew back several feet, hit the door so hard, she blew the door off the hinges and slid on her back into the kitchen, laying on the floor.

People were preparing a meal for potluck Sunday. And she went right through the door, blew the hinges, splintered the door right off, and grandma went sliding across the floor, got up, totally healed by the power of God.

You know, and I thought all of this was just hyperbole, and probably was. I kind of doubt that he actually slapped an elderly woman in the face, at least. I hope he didn't. If he did, he should be arrested.

But,.

But I actually saw him with my own eyes, and I was there at present when he kicked a man with stage 4 stomach cancer, kicked him in the gut, kneed him in the gut. I saw that. And so all of that to say this, you're part of a panel, an investigative team, to decide whether or not he should be in ministry?

Dr. Brown, the man had an affair on his wife, divorced his wife. He should not be in ministry. He is not above reproach. The man claims that he went to heaven and surgery was performed on him. He teaches blatant heresies.

He's not able to teach. The man is not temperate. He is known for kicking and punching people. He literally meets none of the biblical requirements to be an elder, to be a teacher. He shouldn't be anywhere near a pulpit.

And you're on a panel to decide whether or not he should be in ministry? Dr. Brown, he divorced his wife. No, he should not be in ministry. He claims that God spoke to him and told him to kick an elderly woman in the face with his biker boot.

No, he should not be in ministry. He claims that God told him to hit an elderly woman in the face, slap her in the face. No, he should not be in ministry. He literally meets none of the requirements to be a pastor or elder or someone who is teaching the Bible publicly.

He meets none of them. In fact, he is the exact opposite of that, Dr. Brown. So the reason, all of this to say, the reason I am declining your offer is because elders, to be a pastor, to have a pastoral discussion, are to be able to teach sound doctrine and refute those who contradict.

The Bible is not unclear about how we are to deal with false teachers. We are not to endorse them. We are not to give them cover. We are not to call them our brothers. They are to be marked and avoided.

Romans chapter 16, verse 17. They are to be avoided and shunned. 2 John 9 through 11. Do not give them greeting. Do not bring him into your house. For the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

We are not to participate in the evil deeds of darkness. Rather, we are to be exposing them. And yet you're on a panel to decide whether or not he should be in ministry. Dr. Brown, if you cannot tell a man that a man like Todd Bentley should not be in ministry, then there is no point in us having a pastoral discussion about anything, much less healing.

And Dr. Brown, I've been to these meetings. I've been to 17 Benny Hinn crusades. I've been to Kenneth Copeland meetings. I've been to Todd Bentley meetings. I've been to Joyce Meyer meetings. I've been to these things.

Jesse Duplantis. I've been to these things. Creflo Dollar. And I have seen heartbreaking scenes. Desperately, people desperately sick, dying of cancer, laying on the floor on blankets. I've seen people on stretchers.

I have seen parents with dying children, literally cradling their children in their arms, weeping for them, desperate that God would give their little child a miracle of healing. And I have been there when Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland and all these others have promised that if you will sow a seed, if you will give me money, God will heal you of your cancer.

God will heal you, heal your spouse of his or her disease. God will heal your child if you will give me money. That is not hyperbole, sir. That's not hyperbole. I have been there. I've seen it over and over and over and over.

I've talked with these people. I've wept with some of them. And these are the people that you call your brothers. I'm sorry, sir. There is no point in us having a pastoral discussion on healing. For the record, I do believe that God not only can and does heal people today, but only when it is his sovereign will to do so.

I do not believe today that anyone possesses the gift of healing. No one possesses the gift of healing today. But God does heal people when and only when it is his sovereign will to do so. But that's not the same thing as the gift of healing.

It's a rare thing, but God on occasion does it. I have no doubt about that. But I do not believe anyone possesses that gift, and I do not believe that these people like Kenneth Copeland and Todd White and Benny Hinn and Todd Bentley are my brothers in Christ.

They are not my brothers. One of the great ironies in this whole discussion is that charismatics would look at people like me, a cessationist, who does not believe that the apostolic gifts are still in operation.

They would look at me and other cessationists, and they would say, well, you don't believe in the Holy Spirit. You don't believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. To the contrary, I am so confident in the power and the work of the Holy Spirit of God that I do not believe someone can be indwelt by him and teach the kinds of heresies that these people teach and ascribe those same heresies to God himself.

I do not believe that is someone who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. I do not believe someone who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit would stand in front of dozens and dozens, hundreds of sick people, millions potentially through television, and tell sick people, if you will send me your money, God will heal you.

If you will send me your money, God will heal your sick child. I don't believe that. I just don't. I have too much confidence in the power of the person of the Holy Spirit of God, too much confidence in his indwelling of the believer and in his sanctifying work in the lives of believers to believe that someone who is indwelt by him can teach and do these things.

Sorry, dear friend, slight editing note. I had to stop recording. And by the time I was able to come back to it, daylight had gone. And so the lighting is different. So that explains that. So back to what I was saying.

If these people were truly indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God, then the very first time they taught one of these heresies, the very first time they taught one of these blasphemies and ascribed them to God, the very first time that they manufactured false signs and wonders, faked miracles, faked healings.

The very first time that they deliberately exploited the poor, the sick, the desperate and the widows for personal financial gain, then the Holy Spirit of God would drop them to their knees under such heavy conviction.

And the fact that these people have been doing this for year after year after year, some of them for decades, they have been called on it. They've been called to repent. And yet they refuse to do so. They continue to do this with wanton abandon.

That is not someone who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God. If the Holy Spirit of God is strong enough to save us, he is strong enough to deliver us out of deception. Dr. Brown, I'm not saying that everything that you teach is wrong.

I have told you before in an email that I have heard you defend penal substitutionary atonement and you did so very, very well. I could not have done any better myself. But it is not enough to just be right on certain doctrines.

You mentioned having a pastoral discussion. Part of being a pastor, part of being a Bible teacher is not only teaching the truth, but it is refuting those who contradict. And John Calvin has a quote. I'm sure you've seen this before.

John Calvin says this, the pastor ought to have two voices, one for gathering the sheep and another for warding off and driving away wolves and thieves. The scripture supplies him with the means of doing both.

Indeed.

And Dr. Brown, the reason I cannot have a pastoral discussion with you about healing is that you do not warn about the wolves and the thieves. You do not call them out by name. You call them your brothers.

And that is not pastoral. That is anything but pastoral. And so in closing, let me reaffirm that I do believe that God still heals people today only when it is his sovereign will to do so. It is not always God's will for us to be physically healed.

It's just not. The Bible is full of examples of faithful servants of God who were not physically healed this side of heaven. The other side of heaven, yes, we will. We will be healed. We will have our glorified bodies, but we are not guaranteed that this side of heaven, not at all.

And if I have to live the rest of my life with cerebral palsy, you know, that's OK. I deserve far worse. I deserve far worse. But if I have to live with it for the rest of my life, that's all right. I've got all of eternity to live without it.

But more than that, I've got all of eternity to live in the presence of Christ, being in awe of him and worshiping him, serving him for all of eternity. He is the joy and the glory of heaven. And so I do thank you for your invitation, but I must respectfully decline.

And for all who are watching, thank you for doing so. If I may be of any help to you, my website, justinpeters .org, I'd be glad to help you any way that I can. Thank you very much. May God bless you all.