Is it Time to Forgive Each Other Our Pandemic Sins?

Many people have questions about God and the Bible with so many different views about God and how to interpret the Bible. Many people wonder where they can turn to get biblical answers. Well have no fear turn to my friend Andrew Rappaport and his friends on apologetics live.

They can answer any question you have about God in the Bible. Check them out Thursday nights 8 to 10 o 'clock p .m New York time at apologetics live .com. You can watch or join the discussion at apologetics live .com and challenge him with anything.

Please ask him you're really hard questions and tell him Ben sent you.

To answer your questions. Your host. From striving for eternity ministries.

We are live apologetics live here to answer any question you have about God in the Bible. We do appreciate the AI version of Ben Shapiro giving us a quick Shout out there and encouraging you to ask us our most your most difficult questions.

We do actually mean that if you think you have a really hard question, you think we just can't answer. We can we can I can answer any question you have about God and the Bible and if you doubt that My challenge is come on in here and ask away because well I think I don't know is a perfectly good answer.

All right. So what we're gonna do, let me bring it. Drew in here. Drew, you know, there we are supposed to get. I heard rumor. We're supposed to get a super special guest coming in. His name is Chris Han.

Holds.

You know, I think I heard that rumor. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, we started it right here. But actually no I started it earlier when I told him that I heard that rumor and and he went yeah, okay. Yeah, I I get out when you start and then I gotta drive home. I well, hey look he could he drew.

Is it is it true that he could Stream or at least Marco Polo and drive.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know what the laws are where you for that, but Ellie Marco Polo's while driving. I just yeah, I mean in Georgia, you can't do that. It holds your device and drive. I don't know about anywhere else, but He well, I mean, I think as long as he's got a badge he can do whatever he wants.

I think that's there you go when you're in a police police car. Yeah. Yeah, but this first part would be good to get his input on so I you know. So what we're gonna do folks is the question tonight is is it time to forgive each other?

Over our pandemic sins now what this refers to is an article that that I saw Jim Osmond had had tweeted about and It was in Christianity today. I was thrilled when I saw this because actually it refers to an article from the Atlantic and I actually had that For quite some time waiting for a good time to have the discussion.

The the Atlantic article was written back in October. And so I had been waiting to use that for this show and I'm glad that we didn't use it before because I think it'll Be much better dealing with it from Christianity today's view.

But before we do that, I want to bring someone in. He's he's new here. His name is Matthew. Where Matthew welcome.

Welcome. It's good to be here.

Let me I'm gonna turn the banner off so everyone could get your handle there. That's a barely preacher man is your YouTube channel? And so I want it folks to be able to catch that because we're gonna be watching one of your videos.

So Let me also bring in the one the only and actually I should say this before I bring him in in my opinion the world's best Preacher. Yes. I said that I think he's actually better than MacArthur just saying for the record Jim Osmond.

How are you, sir?

It's he's shaking his head. It's true. This is your way of teasing me.

It's not teasing. I've actually verified this with Justin Peters. He agreed with me.

So I got to be right, you know, I will verify it too because on Facebook, I think. Sometime last year. I put who I thought my top five expositors were and I think I think I had Jim above MacArthur as well.

You guys are making me blush. I mean, have you heard your your exposition of Hebrews? Right. Yeah, I mean, it's really well done and it makes you go. Wow. He's not.

So, I want I want some of you guys may not have seen this and I think it was in Daily Wire. I know that I have an article up on Epoch News. But I want to before I show a video. I want to read an affidavit.

So we're gonna talk about someone that was arrested and I want to read the affidavit before we play this video. That Matthew you were just by God's providence able to be there because that I think makes a major change in the way this this went Down.

So here's what this affidavit says. Okay affidavit of probable cause on June 3rd 2023 at 9 o 'clock. This is an officer speaking. I was Assisting to work at you know community event 800 block, Washington Street.

Now this is by the way folks this is in Reading, Pennsylvania, this is not far from me. This is my neck of the woods. The so it goes on the the event was a flag-raising ceremony at City Hall for the beginning of Pride Month.

This event was approved by the city and organizers were issued a permit. There were a few protesters on location. I told them that they had to stay on the opposite side of the street and They could not be disruptive.

At approximately 1005 another male identified later or later identified as Damon Atkins. Arrived at location. He was carrying a sign with a slogan on it. That showed his opposition to the event. He began to yell to the people at the event.

I immediately approached him and told him that While he was free to stand on that side of the street and and hold the sign he could not cross the street. Nor yell comments intended to disrupt the event.

Atkins said he understood less than a minute later. He Resumed remember that word yelling derogatory comments derogatory. Remember that? Okay, those two are gonna be really key. Derogatory comments to the people at the event because I had already warned him.

I immediately told him I Sorry, I immediately told him he was being arrested for disorderly conduct. Officer Dupree and I handcuffed him and escorted him away from the location. You await transport. All right, so this is this right here is the affidavit.

Now I Want to play a video. I don't know if you guys have seen this Jim and Drew but Matthew just happened and I'm gonna play the beginning Matthew because it has some of this on here. This is Shocking.

Okay, I I really kind of don't know what other term to use for it. Because it's just it just was. But the the key reason I want to read the affidavit first is because when you look at the that affidavit There's a couple things.

I want you to do when we watch this video. First is the fact that he says he spoke to this man Damon the man he's gonna arrest he spoke to him for yelling at the crowd. You're gonna see. I'm gonna challenge you to take a look and see when this man the man's gonna have a beard.

He's gonna have a backpack on he'll be carrying a sign. I want you to see when it is that that guy comes into the scene okay, and You see there's there what the derogatory term is. Once he starts speaking.

Listen for that derogatory term to the LGBT. All right. So let's let's give this a listen. Let me get rid of the banner there. All right, here we go.

A bunch of people coming from out of town to celebrate evil. It was a wonderful providence of God. I was driving with my family down the road and we passed this.

Okay, so that speaking is Matthew who you just saw. Matthew where I want you to notice before at this point. Notice the sergeant there that is right in the the camera view. Okay, he's the one to be watching and I want you to notice that as you see the the people that are the Protesters there that's a total of what it looks like.

Four people. The the person Damon Atkins is not on scene yet. Okay, he's gonna come in. He'll be at the the far end of that group. I'm saying that so you see that he's not there. You. So we'll see that the full car the full interaction between this officer and Damon.

Faithful brothers over here that are standing. I Came out and got to preach for about 12 minutes before a cop got in my face laid hands on me and threatened to arrest Me. If I didn't stop, of course, I don't have my GoPro camera with me because I wasn't coming out I had no idea this was happening.

I just happened to drive by. But the gospel went out. Drag Queens. They got children here. They're about to do a flag-raising ceremony in the Satanist our own mayor and more on is out here and. Yeah, no, this is the type of insanity now what's amazing about Reading is it is largely a Hispanic population.

But if you don't know how well you can see there's not a lot of Hispanics out today. It's a bunch of white people I'm sure they drove over from West Reading or from out of town because the Hispanic community largely would shun this.

But yeah, that's what we got. This is what they're doing in Reading City. Okay, so just set it up right now.

Matthew you just happened to be there. You weren't planning to be there. Yeah, you just have to take your phone out and and take some footage which by God's providence is gonna be very important. To what ends up happening?

Yeah. Actually. Okay, so right after this is when we're gonna see Damon come into the scene. So watch it on the end on the left side of the screen. Okay, so right here you see you can see him all the way back there with the white shirt.

The guy his friend with the brown shirt. Matthew's gonna say he just came on scene. You can see the officers looking soon as he walks up. Now this this sign that he has this most dangerous sign that he has just says.

Jesus said go and sin no more. That was the. Huh, the horror of that. Yeah, the horror of that that's remember. They said that this this sign was the proof now. I'll grant for the you know from one perspective you could argue that the that might seem like it's against the the purpose of.

This flag raising. Okay, the officer doesn't know that this gentleman Dwayne carries the Damon sorry carries this sign regularly. But watch the reaction now remember the officer on the right is the one to watch.

Our men just showed up to support us. This cops gonna give him a hard time.

Okay, so at this point right you see the officer looking get ready to hear. You now know who to watch for let's hear this derogatory speech that he's gonna say toward these people ready. That's it. Did you hear it God?

That's us. That's it. I'm gonna back this up so you could see how quick that officer responds at one word God now remember the affidavit. I said he said he Contained he he again was yelling at the people.

Well, you saw the full interaction with the officer. He says not only that but he said he was he was yelling derogatory things. What did he say? They won't even let him give his bag away. Now right there I want you to see I want you to see where the police officer's foot is.

Okay, this is a subtle thing that that I'm gonna show this again because the officer as you can see right there Trips Damon and then accuses him of resisting arrest. And he's the because that was one of the claims that was made.

He was resisting arrest and Yet, it's the officer that tripped him. I don't think it was on purpose. I think their feet just got intertwined. Just to be fair to the officer but what you end up seeing is here you have someone who He didn't want because what Damon tried to do is continue saying and I did speak to Damon on the phone today.

He all he wanted to say is God is not a god of confusion. That's all he wants to say. And he tried finishing it and he spun him around to put him up against the wall and then they they arrest him and end up Walking him over.

I did think it's interesting that they went through Matthew you you were good enough to record. They went through and went through his bag without him behind his back. Oh Yeah.

They struggle with that bag for a long time, too. He literally offers right at the beginning Can I give this guy my bag and they say no and then they're struggling with it and they end up dropping it on the pavement.

Once they get it. No. No. Well, no, they threw it on the pavement. Yeah. So so we'll show that because you were still filming they're struggling to get it off of them. Is what they were trying to do? And.

Yeah, I mean they could have just you know, let him but but I Wonder if it's even legal for officers to to search a bag. Without the owner. I know it like TSA can't do that, right?

The Fourth Amendment. Yeah, correct. That's right. So what watch this?

They're trying to get it off of his because they're not uncuffing them.

And the wicked across the street are saying they're celebrating along. This is incredible.

See how he just tosses it and then she's gonna go through it. He can't see what they're doing. Oh Yeah, we should listen to what they say on the mic.

Yeah. God bless you and Allah bless you and may he put some love in your heart. That's what they said to us while he was being Damon was being handcuffed.

Yeah, and and you know, just we could talk. Muting it so we could see but you'll see look they're going through his bag behind his back. Putting it on the ground taking everything out putting it on the ground and so.

Demon lady, so. What would you end up seeing? There's I. I question whether that's even legal. What they were doing right there. Okay, but this you know, this is Matthew. It just happened you and I happen to be Facebook friends.

We met at cruciform conference. Some years ago. And so when I saw your name mentioned I was like, wait a minute. So I reached out to you and and you happen to have Damon's number so I just called him to see you know get you know, he he didn't you know.

His the lawyers there's still a case going on. So his his lawyers, you know, rightfully. They always say hey don't say anything because anything you say he's gonna get used against you. So I believe he may be watching but.

You know, he he just what all he said was God. That was voting scripture.

God is not the author of confusion. Well can't have that can't have that. Well, he can't even get he couldn't even get that far.

Yeah, and that's why I said in the affidavit. He the claim is that he you know that he had the officer I immediately approached him told me he's free to stand on the side of the street. Well, that's true and hold his sign.

But he can't disrupt the event. Let me ask Jim Do you remember this with black lives matter where they were told in their protests? They had to say on a certain side of the street and they couldn't they couldn't.

Yell at people or. Well, I think they stood on one side of the street while they burned the other down. Memory served. So they were on one side of the street. Yeah.

Yeah. And so he says less than a minute later. He was. This is a day affidavit. He resumed yelling now folks. You saw the entire you saw when yeah even gets there resumed yelling. Soon as he got there the officer Call, you know approached him.

He hadn't said a single word yet. He just got started by saying God is Not and the officer was was on him at the word God.

Well, it's it also seemed like in the first interaction that they had. Almost like the officer was trying to tell him he couldn't stand there because he kept saying this is public property. Yeah.

Yeah. No, did he. Matthew. Did he tell you guys that you had to move down the street?

Yeah, so what happens before the film starts is again. I'm driving with my family. Going out of the city we live in the city and we're going out of town for a Saturday fun day and I see the two older men are on the same side of the street as Let's call it the crowd much smaller crowd then I know what's going on then and I tell my wife I just got to pull over and encourage these two older men because I know what it's like.

I've been doing this for years. I know what it's like when you're out there. So I wasn't gonna stay long just wanted to encourage them and then we're gonna be away with my family. When I park on a different street I walk over to them the crowd is doubled in size and the two older men that you see in the video with the signs.

They are now on the other side of the street where you see them in the video. And I speak with them and they warned me immediately. There's an officer over there who threatened to arrest us if we didn't stay on this side of the street.

Same officer and so I I listened to what they said and I started preaching for about 10 or 12 minutes. Then that officer walked across the street came right up to me put his finger on my chest as if you don't stop shouting Insults at those people.

I will arrest you. Do you understand? And so I stand there and I calmly say sir, I am NOT shouting insults at them. Just like if you keep shouting at them, I will arrest you. I told him sir, I care about their souls and he said well get over it.

And so I looked at him and I knew my wife and my son are in the car on another street. They have no idea where I am. No one here knows who I am. If this guy drags me away They're not gonna know what happened to me.

I've been preaching for about 10 or 12 minutes. The Gospels gone out. I just decide God bless you, sir, and he looks at me kind of scowls and then he turns around and walks away a few minutes later I start filming that and that's what you see.

And so what happens with Damon what I think is what happened is Damon shows up. He just got there, but this officer just got busy threatening the older men. Me and then Damon shows up and that's kind of like the straw that breaks the tyrants back.

And so Damon kind of walked into this already really hot situation. And where it says in that affidavit that like Damon had already been shouting across the street I can't help but wonder if he got me and him mixed up.

I don't know that for certain. Well, I mean.

I mean you look so much alike. Oh Yeah, I was laughing at your your comment the straw that broke the tyrants back in case people didn't hear that and wonder why I laughed. Yeah, I mean this I saw this I mean this was on the Epoch News.

I think Daily Wire had it. You know this was Just it it kind of shocked me. I'll have. I'll have a link to your YouTube channel where you have the video. I'll link that in the show notes for for the the podcast.

You know the Lancaster Patriot one of our local papers did a really good job covering this too. Yep.

I was I was just about to mention that. That's good. I had it queued up because you told me to read that and that's where that's where actually where I got the the affidavit from so. See, yeah, so let me just open it up.

You know drew and Jim you you guys didn't know about this but. What are your thoughts seeing this for the first time hearing this this account?

Well, we came on to the apologetics live to talk of people abusing power and then Being asked to be excused for it. And here we are opening up with the very this is a mini Kovat is what's going on. You have people on one side of the aisle basically abusing power and it'd be like somebody stepping in and saying well now we've All made mistakes.

And so let's just all forgive one another for the mistakes that we've made. This is unfortunately these people are not going to be held accountable. Likely for what they did they'll get a slap on the wrist Maybe some paid vacation and they'll be back out on the streets.

People like that should be fired. That's an abuse of power. Yeah.

Yep. Yeah, I believe that the and I think a lot because this video that Matthew did Got a lot of news got a lot of attention and Because of that, I believe they've dropped the case. They looked supposedly I guess they looked at the police camera footage and realized They don't have a case.

Yeah, whoops. Well, they realized that the case they wanted to make did not match what got recorded if Matthew had not recorded it.

They would still have a case exact prosecuting him and and this is why I say God's Providence. I mean, yes. We were talking before we went live. You know, we cannot as as street evangelists. There's no way we can go out anymore without a camera running.

I mean several cameras because You just don't know. I mean God's Providence. There weren't a lot of people there Matthew. You're at the right place at the right time. Because had you not had this footage they wouldn't have used the police footage.

Yeah. Oh, there's something wrong with the camera lost.

Yeah. One look at our brother Damon and be like, oh you see he's dangerous and then they.

You'd have no chance against us. You know, one thing that got me when I first watched this video was when they're arresting him and He's heartbroken over the fact that the people are clapping that he's being arrested.

Because he actually cares about them, but they don't care about him. And they're and they're the ones talking about love. No, it was horrible.

They were clapping it and then they had. The speakers are going on. They're saying God bless you over there and may God put love in your heart as Damon's getting carried away in handcuffs and it's like it's.

It's still I you know I've told the story maybe like 30 times in the past week. Now since all this has happened. That's still so hard to believe this happened. So I've been open-air preaching in Reading City and around Pennsylvania for years.

I have never come across police officers like this. Like I knew that they existed and they were out there but something like this in Reading.

I was genuinely shocked that I was coming across this. Well, I mean I've seen similar stuff just from churches who do abortion ministry. In Arizona, there's there's a law that's on the books that says you cannot murder your baby through abortion and so they'll go out and they'll preach and.

The abortion mills have called the cops and the cops come out and say you can't use amplification. You can't do this. You can't do that or we're gonna arrest you and they're standing there with the law going.

This is what the law says. Why don't you read it and the cops completely ignore it? Yep.

So So KT is saying is asking does he have a lawyer like a CLJ. The answer is I don't think not yet, but I did put him in touch with somebody from repent America who is very knowledgeable in these things and Hopefully, they'll they'll be able to get him a good lawyer.

I can say a lot of people are reaching out about that. So he the Lord is providing.

Yeah. Oh Look, someone said so nice about Jim. Look at this. Melissa says Jim Osmond. Hey, brother I really appreciate your ministry and really enjoy your book truth or territory. Well, very kind of you Melissa.

Thank you. That was that was your book that you wrote on how to how to You know make I find Satan. Oh No.

How to properly speak in tongues. Yeah, that's right. That's the hedge of protection.

All right, so Facebook user says you can't record the police in California. It's against the law. Of course it is which by the way Facebook user go to a project live. And you can get. So we can see your name.

There's instructions on how to do that. Yeah, that might be haps. I.

Want to be haps. Yeah, that could be.

You mean the fact that you can't record the police? When you know, there's See the the problem with it is is like we would sit there and say well if you're not doing anything wrong Why do you mind? Why do you care?

But? Nowadays with I can understand. Oh, he does say it's haps. I see that. What you do have now is you have a problem where you have officers for their own safety. Like what was going on in New York when they were just killing officers?

I can understand. Why you wouldn't want to record officers? The officers are required to have body cameras and that's Required so, you know when they go to court, they there's the evidence there. Um, jim, I got a question for you.

I asked drew and and matthew earlier before you came in back before we went live. We if all the police officers are required to carry body cameras with audio and video going Why don't they require that in schools?

Yeah.

Because there are some times that they want something recorded and there are times that they don't want people to have access to it.

They don't want parents seeing. I actually I think we know what happens when when parents do see what's going on in schools.

Yeah, they show up at school board meetings to protest it. Yeah, and then the fbi shows up and that's right.

Yeah, I mean that's exactly what happened during covet. All the parents suddenly realized what actually was going on in in the schools. Um um. Oh, so so now I don't know if this is still haps, but he says officers can turn.

Uh turn off body cams though. This is why we've been fighting for police to have to wear body cams. Um. Interesting. Oh. This will be a fun. We may never get to the topic now. Here's a question. Question for pastor jim osmond.

What are your thoughts on christian nationalism and post-millennialism?

Is that what we've come to. You can always count on john.

I like john, you know, just I mean start right out of the gate.

Uh I mean, there's definitely some overlap there in theology and in implementation of it, isn't there? I mean, that's that's such a huge issue though, because not every post-millennialist would be a christian nationalist.

Though christian nationalism itself would probably be more akin to post-millennialism in its eschatology and implementation than pre-millennialist for sure.

I think you know drew may what we'll do is we should do a show on christian nationalism.

It probably needs its own episode. Yeah, the problem is when you start talking about christian nationalism, it's Okay. Well, what what flavor what do we mean nationalism? Yes. What do we mean by that you define our terms and that's where the confusion comes in.

So What we want to do jim. I I asked you to come on because I wanted to ask this question. You posted this article that was from christianity today uh and the article says, uh, it's time to forgive each other of our pandemic sins um.

This was quite an interesting article um and and so. Make this a little bigger. I mean, I don't know that we can go through this whole thing uh. It referenced this atlantic article and so. Let me sum it up jim.

And then I want I would i'd like to get your what you post what you had what you had said about this, but basically the the summary of this is a bunch of progressive christians that said hey, you know.

You got to love your neighbor. You shouldn't you should be wearing masks separating and not going to church and if you're if your church is open. You're not loving your neighbor essentially you're violating romans 13.

Now that we find that um at well as it says right here. We got things wrong. Masks were not terribly useful. Unless you used an n95 and were just right. Uh, some public schools stayed closed For far longer than necessary and social distancing was unnecessary outdoors a lot of disinfection in public places was just Hygienic theater.

So so okay. Hey, we said we got it wrong. Um, so jim is this enough for us to just say forgiven?

No, I don't think it is and that was the point that I was making in my post on twitter about this. I don't think it's. And this this article I think is filled with some logical fallacies. So first of all, he he talks about in the article.

Um, some seem eager. This is about the second period one, two, three, four paragraphs down. Some seem eager to relitigate who said what about masking social distancing infection rates or church closures years after the fact so he just wants us to pretend that.

One side of this debate was entirely wrong about everything regarding the covid the covid scandemic. He wants us to pretend that um one side was entirely Overbearing in their approach to this and and shamed the rest of us and he wants to us as in his words It's time to declare a pandemic amnesty.

So You know, he talks about later on in the article. We collectively said and did things during these confusing and unprecedented times. Well, no, we didn't collectively do that. Your side or one side did this?

So if you want to be forgiven if you want to come clean with Progressive christians if you want to come clean with what you did to the rest of us during this period of time. Then go ahead and come clean admit it repent turn from that sin confess where you were wrong.

Come back and say yeah, we were wrong about social distancing. We were wrong about masks. We were wrong about the lockdowns. We were wrong about the economic effects of it. We were wrong about Um, we were wrong about the cfr the case fatality rate.

We're wrong about the ifr the infection fatality rate. We're wrong about the How it was spread. We were wrong about the hygiene. We're wrong about everything. They were wrong about everything and it's not just they were wrong.

They lied about these things. We've known for 100 years that masks don't stop respiratory viruses. We've known for 100 years that social distancing does not stop respiratory viruses. Which is why for the last 100 years we haven't worn masks during every flu Season that has rolled around through the general population.

They lied to us about all of these things from the very beginning and there was one side of this debate that was calling bunk on the other side of the debate and saying no you're lying to us and There were some people who kind of wavered about it early on in the scamdemic for a couple of weeks.

I was kind of in that mix, but it took me about two weeks to realize no we're being lied to. About every aspect of this by everybody who's in authority. And so the people who lied need to be held accountable for what they did they committed I think crimes against humanity.

Yes by what they did. They they made sure that your grandmother died in a nursing home all alone without any physical touch. They made sure that your graduations were canceled. Your senior proms were canceled.

Your potlucks were canceled your churches were shut down your businesses went away. I think there's something like a hundred thousand businesses in this country that will never. That that died during the covid scamdemic.

And this was imposed upon us by fiat from people who have no authority in this regard. And there was one side of the christian church who lapped up everything that they were told about this. Believed all of it and then told the rest of us that if we didn't go along with it.

We didn't love our neighbor. We didn't love grandma and we just wanted to see people die and be killed. And that was not the case at all. So they judged our motives. They judged what we were doing about it.

And and and called us liars and conspiracy theorists and wingnuts and now that the whole thing has come out and we've realized now or at Least sane people have realized that they've been lied to about all of this.

They just want to come out and say oh I'm, sorry I guess we just all need to forgive one another and I'm happy to forgive you if you want to admit that everything you did in in pimping the government narrative Was wrong and it was a lie and what you did was un-christian.

Uncharitable and and absolutely inexcusable you want to admit that then yeah, we can we can have a conversation. But you just want us to come out and forget it and pretend that it never happened. And that is not the essence of forgiveness.

Yeah, and In this article, he keeps talking about things. Oh, well, well, we didn't know we didn't know this. We didn't know that. We didn't know that but then during the whole time you had People who were actual doctors.

And just on twitter. Telling you what was going on and they were silenced social media. That's right and removed. That's right. Yep, they were canceled and those people were ignored by the church by government officials by everybody else.

And and this is the thing you bring up an important point because in here what he's doing. The author of the article is just saying we got some things wrong. But hey, it was a confusing time.