Statement on Justice and the Gospel

All right, guys, so let's wrap up the show. Final thoughts here. And I think I was thinking the whole time, I do wanna ask you. So you and Summer did a show on Sheologians. Guys, everyone go to sheologians .com and pick up the episodes of Sheologians with Summer and Joy.

You can also go to apologiastudios .com and you can click on the Sheologians link there. But you guys did a talk on the statement on social justice and the gospel. So when you're reflecting on these things after doing that show, you did it with Tom Askell.

So what are your thoughts in terms of?

Why the Statement on Social Justice and the Gospel Matters

I think that if you don't wanna sign something, that's fine, you don't have to. And I know that there are a lot of well-meaning, well-intentioned people that didn't sign it, and that's fine. I also know there are just as many trolls and people that wanna just be angry about everything.

And why didn't they invite me to write this statement? But I mean, Sheologians signed it because it's a statement that says it right in the name. It's a statement. It's not a plan of action necessarily.

It's not, okay, and now here are the next five steps that we're gonna take to do better.

It's not the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith. Right, it is a

It's a response. There is this uprising in our church, which you just heard described by Andrew Sandlin. And it is a response by the church also to say, this is what we affirm, this is what we deny. And I agree with what's in there.

Ultimately helpful, yes.

Especially in this area. And I think that it's important that we make statements like this. It's something that you don't see all that often in our current society is people coming together. When you think of the statements made, you think of church history far, far back.

But we should be doing things like this more. When issues come up like this in our society, we need to get together and say, no, actually this is what we believe. You don't come at me, especially because there's so much information just running around all over the place on the internet.

So being clear and concise in this day and age is very important. Now I'm not saying every statement written by people I agree with just gets a free pass and I'll sign it. But it is important, especially now where you have basically the place right now where Christians talk about what they believe is the internet.

And there's all these different opinions and there's all these arguments and there's these people that wanna have good conversations and engagements. And then there's people that don't know how to even do that.

And there's people that just wanna be mad all the time. And so I think that in terms of clarity, this is something that we should be doing more often.

So I was thinking that, that's why I wanted to talk to you about it. This probably hits really close to home for you. I mean, obviously being an Apologia Church, Apologia Studios, we're always trying to engage as cultural issues and false teachings and false gospels, but we're also trying to engage in a lot of these cultural issues to bring the light of the gospel into those areas and also contrast the perverse notions of law and justice and righteousness in our day with biblical law, justice, and righteousness.

So we're already a part of that, but on Sheologians in particular, this is why I think it's interesting for you. And on Sheologians in particular, you guys are constantly addressing sort of the fallout of a lot of these perverse ideologies and worldviews.

You're talking about feminism a lot. You're talking about intersectionality. You're talking about cultural Marxism and ideas and these sorts of things. So I thought in particular, it hits close to home to you because that's kind of you guys, your emphasis.

You're really trying to engage these issues that are having real life, like physical. This is happening here. It's impacting us. It's not just sort of a theory up here. Someone's in a coffee shop with their finger to their lip, sort of sipping on coffee saying, I think this is a good idea.

No, it's actually now invaded the church. It's into Christian's heads. They're putting hands and feet to these ideas. And of course, in the culture at large, it's already been going. So I just thought probably why it hits close to home.

Clarity, Conviction, and the Internet Age

Yeah, I think that we all have our areas that we would seem to be more called to. It's not that we're not called to the other areas. It's just that we have a certain burden for certain areas. And even since we started Geologians, you can see we have witnessed, like Summer and I discovered this interest and this love for this certain group of people.

And then even since then, we've seen it start to come into the church and people are just, I don't know exactly what it is would take an entire episode to describe, but people are just jumping onto whatever they think sounds good to them, whatever their church is talking about.

And so I think that it is important that we have something that's clear to refer back to just because there's so much conjecture and so much, and it can be so hard to communicate over the internet. And this is where SJWs communicate.

I'm sorry, but on the internet. And so I think that it is important. The statement is important in and of itself just because of what it is. It is a statement. It is us saying, you can throw an insult at me and say, I believe something, but I signed this.

This is what I believe. Oh no, but you believe this and this. You believe that women are not equal to men.

No, no, no.

I signed this. I don't believe that. So it's just, I like it just for its clarity.

Well, I was thinking too, that when we were trying to encourage you guys and we were all prayerful over the theologians, there was this little period of time before that we're really trusting God to make this happen and that it would be a blessing to the church.

I think if we can circle back and think about what was happening around us at the time, we knew that these things were a problem and they needed to be addressed, but it's amazing. And in just, what, two years?

It has launched beyond where you would see people on the outside as obviously that's a false teacher, but obviously this person's completely off. Now, in just a short period of time, we're seeing an infecting solid, people that are generally solid.

And you're like, wait, this is so fast. It is cancerous, destructive, and it just, it metastasized quickly.

And so I think, yeah, I think it's, we're all, we all, I think it is a surprise how much squishiness exists out there. But I think that even if the statement written by men isn't absolutely perfect in its entirety, I think that it offers some, like you said, solid.

So in this world of like squishiness, there's something solid to refer back to. And it's a statement that we've made that says what we, it is just, it's a really, it's a really an excellent way to, I'm not saying this is the end of our engagement with culture, but it is a great way to engage with culture because it is so, everything is so nebulous and all over the place right now.

That's right.

That's what I appreciate about it mainly.

Clarifying the Statement's Language Without Rejecting It

Yeah, I mean, in regards to the statement you and I, we all know when we first saw it, we're like, we all had the same immediate concerns over it, right? Because there are some language that is a bit muddy when it comes to, you know, the gospel and God's law and stuff like that.

And so, you know, we, this is what I think is important. We didn't just come out gums ablaze and this is ridiculous, this is garbage. Like we went and asked people that were actually part of writing this, hey, what's going on?

Why was it written this way? And, you know, and so I signed it. And it's funny because I was thinking about it, was praying over it. And then I saw Andrew, what he, you know, he said he signed it and he said, I'm signing this, but, you know, there's some issues I think that could be clarified.

And so I was thinking the same thing. So like, I'm signing it with, you know, with the caveat, like there's an issue I have, but overall I agree with it. And I think the reason, I think the reason that some of the language is muddy was to bring together these different groups that have, you know, maybe some differing views on the extent of the gospel, right?

But to bring them together in agreement over this issue of social justice.

Yeah.

Because ultimately that's what the statement is about.

And so I think the thing that's made it, I don't want to say salvageable, but signable for me was in the part of the gospel where it was saying that, I think it was worded that the main focus or job or mission of the church is to preach the gospel, which I agree, we would agree with.

No, we would just say, well then the effect of that is it changes the culture.

Yeah.

But this statement kind of ended there and that's where people are having an issue with it. But they're right. They didn't say anything that was wrong.

Right.

They just said stuff where I was. Like, you could have gone.

We'd like you to say more.

Yeah, exactly. But I get why they did it and that's why I was like, okay.

Yeah.

That's why I, the overall gist of it, like we agree with and I think it's a good thing. And so, I mean, I just want to encourage brothers and sisters out there. Like when stuff like this comes up, like don't just, don't just come out.

Like I said, guns a blazing in without even asking questions, without even going to people and saying, Hey, can you clarify some things or can you explain some things? Like that was what was sad to me, which is to see people that are solid brothers and sisters that we agree with.

We agree with their position, but it's like, whoa, just pump the brakes for a second.

You know?

And at that point it's like, it just creates more division with people that we should be united with on this issue.

Yeah, and can be. And can be.