F4F | Prasch and Burn!

Welcome to another installment of Fighting for the Faith. My name is Chris Rosebro. I am your servant in Jesus Christ.

This is the channel that compares what people are saying in the name of God to the Word of God. Quick note, those of you who've been praying for me,

I truly appreciate it. Little bit of a note, I've injured my lower back and had to go to the hospital last

Saturday, and those of you who follow me on social media know how that has all worked out, and I can say

I'm on the men's. I don't need surgery right now. I've been prescribed physical therapy, and there isn't a moment in my life where I do not have back pain right now, so I would appreciate your continued prayers.

But things are generally getting better, and so this video is my attempt to try to get back into the saddle.

I guess with a bad back pun intended is a good way of saying it. So wanted to thank you all for your prayers and continued prayer for my health, that the

Lord is being gracious and merciful to me along those lines. All of that being said, let's kind of set the table for our topic today.

For years, people have been wanting me to weigh in on John MacArthur saying it's okay for us to take the mark of the beast, and people have been out there trying to get me to weigh in on this.

This is the video where I'm gonna weigh in on it, but we're gonna weigh in on this using the research and putting together a lot of data as to why this is even a topic right now, because the reality is this, is that when it comes to the mark of the beast and things like this, we're talking about eschatology, and ultimately this is going to come down to a debate regarding how to interpret the book of Revelation.

Now, I'll lay this out on the table. I'm amillennial, which I think is a terrible name for the eschatology that I believe in, because basically the idea is that when you look at the book of Revelation, I believe you make an error when you exegete the text, when you exegete it linearly, and when you take the numbers and you make them literal numbers.

Everything in the book of Revelation is symbolic, and as a result of it, the book of Revelation, as I understand it exegetically, is to be understood cyclically.

There are at least three to five times that the world ends in the book of Revelation, it's not a linear book.

And as a result of it, the number for the thousand -year reign of Christ is a symbolic number.

The number regarding the years of the Tribulation, the time, times, and half a time, all of those numbers are to be understood symbolically, as well as the mark of the beast.

There's something about that. Now, that being the case, that doesn't mean that it doesn't preclude a global government under the man of lawlessness or things like that, that's not, it doesn't preclude that.

It's just that you'll note that all Millennialists don't try to, we don't do the game of pin the tail on the

Antichrist, it just doesn't work that way. Instead, we look at like Revelation 12 and 13 as actually having significance and meaning for our lives even today, and even today if that means that Christ isn't going to return for another 1 ,500 years, or not show up until like the year 2724.

I, you know, and by the way, I'm just saying that number not because that's a prediction, I don't want anyone to think that, but we'll kind of weigh this all out.

And so as it relates to John MacArthur and the mark of the beast and the controversy surrounding that, you cannot discuss that apart from the end times doomsday narrative of a particular group that many have labeled to be a cult or cult -like.

And included in this group, this cult -like group, I'm gonna call it a cult -like group, is gonna be

Service Christi, otherwise known as Joshua Chavez, who we'll refer to moving forward as Lydia.

I know that that's not disrespectful, that's not respectful, but the reality is this, he's smarter than this, he should know better.

And the reality is that he's a thug, he acts like a cult member himself, and he is an acolyte and an altar boy for Jacob Prash.

And when you see what I'm gonna show you here, we're gonna put everything in its context, and we're gonna ask ourselves this question, you know, why is

Jacob Prash, why is Lydia Chavez, Service Prashy, why are they attacking men like Todd Friel, Phil Johnson, Justin Peters, why are they attacking

Doreen Virtue, why are they attacking John MacArthur? In fact, you know, everything about their eschatology, which isn't biblical eschatology, it's so weird, we're gonna have to rename it, we're gonna call it

Prashcatology. Prashcatology. Once you understand the narrative, then you'll understand why

Lydia Chavez and Jacob Prash obsess.

And I mean, we're talking like, you know, shift levels of obsession with John MacArthur.

You could literally say they suffer from John MacArthur derangement syndrome, and the reason why they do is the false narrative that they've constructed regarding John MacArthur and the

Mark of the Beast and all this other stuff. And they're sitting there going, you're confusing me, Roseborough. I know,

I'm confusing myself, because this stuff is that confusing! But we're gonna spend some time working all of this out, and when we get to the end of it, you will see for yourself what it is that we are dealing with, and when you see all of that play out, then you're gonna go, oh, that's the reason why this

John MacArthur thing is even a thing at all. It has everything to do with the fact that this cult -like group, and I'm gonna call it a cult -like group for this reason.

Usually when you say that a group is a cult, you're saying that they're not Christians. For instance, the

Jehovah's Witnesses, that's a cult, and Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians. Mormons, that's a cult.

They are not Christians. So when it comes to the

Prashians, and that's the best way I could put it, when it comes to the

Prashians, they behave like a cult in that they lie, they deceive, they have a special narrative, theological, eschatological narrative that they hang on to, and they anathematize anyone who disagrees with their narrative or knowingly undermines it.

So I fully expect a hit piece from Lydia Chavez and Jacob Prash at this point against me for daring to show their narrative to be false.

But if you will take the time to walk through this with me, and we're gonna do this in phases, in chapters if you would, if you take the time to walk this with me, do so with an open mind, looking at the evidence, then you will see that the problem here is not

John MacArthur. The problem is Jacob Prash and his followers, men like Lydia Chavez, Joshua Lydia Chavez, and others who buy into this weird end -times doomsday narrative that we're gonna call

Prash -catology. And scripture does not require me to embrace Prash -catology.

It doesn't require me to do that at all. And it doesn't make you a Christian if you do, and doesn't make you a

Christian if you don't, is the best way I can put it. So all that being said, that's our setup for today, and let's go ahead and let's get the desktop up.

And this is Jacob Prash, and what we're gonna do here is we're gonna spend some time in a teaching that he gave not that long ago and the name of it is

Antichrist in Cover -up. Antichrist in Cover -up. And here we're gonna see

Jacob Prash laying out their Prash -catological narrative regarding what

I will refer to as the mother of all of all deceptions, you know, the mother of all deceptions, and that is that apparently the

Antichrist spirit has come up with a the the most exquisite deception designed to deceive you into taking the mark of the beast.

And when you hear the narrative, then you'll understand why men like Joshua Lydia Chavez and Prash and others, they obsess with and suffer from John MacArthur derangement syndrome.

So let's let Jacob Prash set this up for us, shall we, and let's kind of listen as he will explain to us what's really going on right now in these end times.

Here we go. Many, many times that the overriding sign of the return of Christ was and will be perpetration of deception against the elect.

Okay, so, and this, I don't have a problem with this. The Scripture talks about this very clearly.

In fact, when Jesus is asked about the end times, first thing he says, don't let anyone deceive you. So Prash is correct that, you know, one of the, like, big signs, harbingers of the imminent return of Christ is growing deception and apostasy.

Totally agree. Wars, yes. Rumors of wars, yes. Famines, yes. Pestilence, yes.

Earthquakes, yes. Seismic activity. Events of the Middle East, Jerusalem being restored.

All of these things, as in Luke 21 -24, Jerusalem being trampled by the feet of the

Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles is completed. All of these things are signs of the return of Christ and more, many more.

We know this. We know that the stage is being set for Antichrist as we speak.

Even things like coronavirus, events of the Middle East. Okay, now note here, there is an eminence regarding prashkitology and a belief that current events, as it relates to COVID -19 and things currently happening in the

Middle East, are imminent harbingers of the return of Christ, the

Rapture, the Great Tribulation, and things of this nature. Now, I will kind of circle around with that and show you that on Joshua Lydia Chavez's YouTube channel, he recently, back on April 3rd of this year, interviewed

Jacob Prash, who he kind of carries himself like a used car salesman of eschatology.

Yeah, it's... Anyway, so this is weird. And the topic of discussion is, is the first seal about to be broken?

Alright, so this assumes that pre -millennialism is the right way of understanding the book of Revelation, alright, and that the first seal hasn't been broken yet.

Millennials have a totally different way of looking at the seals here. All of that being said, they really believe that we are right on the cusp, man.

Like, the Antichrist, he's showing up next Thursday, and they're gonna start tattooing people on their forehead and their back of the right hand, like, you know, two weeks from Friday.

Yeah, I mean, that's kind of what's going on here, is this belief that it's right here, man, we're right here.

And I'll just play this out just a little bit so you can see that. So this is Joshua Lydia Chavez and Jacob Prash.

Is the first seal about to be broken? There's something a little bit different here today, and specifically because of the situation that we find ourselves in globally.

We're living in a pretty unprecedented reality, and there's a lot of questions, less answers than there are questions, people are confused, and there's a, you know, for every one sound voice there's a thousand chaotic ones, and so given

Jacob's background, especially his study in eschatology...

Yeah, it's disturbing to me that Lydia Chavez thinks that Jacob Prash is a sound voice, eschatologically or theologically or any kind of ology way at all.

I'll show you why as this episode unfolds. Eschatological events. He's authored several books concerning end times and biblical prophecy about the

Antichrist, about the rapture of the Church, about apostasy and so forth, and so the goal, as always, is to root ourselves firmly in God's Word, the only rule of faith and practice.

And so we find our answers ultimately in God's Word, and that's how we're gonna make sense of the world around us.

Okay, now, I mean, as good as those platitudes might sound, he falls woefully short in that particular video, and that's just my exegetical opinion, and I'm not gonna get into the details in this episode of Fighting for the

Faith. So coming back to Moriel, coming back to Jacob Prash. So he's talking about deception, and like I pointed out, that the

Prashians really believe that their Prashcatology is teaching them that, man, whoa, yeah,

I'm pretty sure that the horses are about to start riding, and the scales are about, you know, the seals are about to be broken, and the whore is gonna start riding the beast, man.

It's like gonna happen on the news next week. That's kind of what's going on here. So we continue, then, with his, well,

Prashcatological narrative. Brexit and so forth, all of these things, as we've been saying consistently...

So COVID and Brexit all have to do with the end times. ...have prophetic significance. Right now, the

Holy Spirit, of course, as we've always pointed out, is trying to prepare, or is preparing, the faithful bride for the return of Christ.

The Holy Spirit is preparing the faithful bride for the coming of the bridegroom that we read about in the book of Revelation, and Matthew 25, and the

Song of Solomon, by poetic allegory, and so forth. The return of Jesus.

The Holy Spirit is preparing the bride for the coming of the bridegroom.

That's the work of the Holy Spirit. At the same time, the spirit of Antichrist, as the

Apostles define it, the spirit of Antichrist, is preparing the world and the apostate church for the coming of the man of lawlessness, the anthropon enomon, the

Antichrist, complete with the mark of the beast, complete with the abomination of desolation, ha'shikutz hamesh omen, ha'shikutz hamesh omen.

It's all being set up. The Holy Spirit is preparing for the coming of Christ. The spirit of Antichrist is preparing for the spirit of Antichrist.

However, key to the strategy of Antichrist is deception of the elect.

Alright, now this is the part where we gotta pay close attention to the Prash - catalogical narrative.

And this is unique to the Prashians, alright? And this is what makes them so dangerous because this is the narrative that they don't tell you in Lydia Chavez's videos.

But this is the narrative that, how should we say, motivates their actions and decides who's going to get the focus of their attacks, okay?

Because, alright, so we got the spirit of the Antichrist, it's all about going to, he's gonna try to deceive the elect and he's got a special weapon for that, and Jacob Prash has figured out what that special weapon is.

Now we've talked many times also about 2 Peter chapter 2, the way false teachers and false prophets operate, the way they attempt to deceive the elect, or the way

Satan attempts to deceive the elect through them. It's called parasogzusid.

They put truth next to error. People who say many good and many true things, but they introduce a deadly poison into the mixture.

Alright, so we got people who say really good stuff, but there's just a little bit of poison, okay?

And by the way, this is the setup for what he believes is the truth regarding John MacArthur, Todd Friel, myself,

Justin Peters, and others, alright? You know, that we are part of the special elite deception that the spirit of the

Antichrist is currently using for the purpose of deceiving you so that you will take the mark of the beast.

I wish I was making that up, but we continue. Again, a three -egg omelet. Two is good, one egg is rotten.

Or a couple of drops of arsenic in a glass of milk. Well, most of it's good, but the arsenic is still adequate to kill.

This is the reality. Parasogzusid. They disguise error with truth.

They place truth next to error. They say many good things. A little leaven leavens the entire lump.

Now, we're not talking about important yet non -fundamental issues.

Now, this is an important part here, because when we talk about the difference between false teaching and heresy, we are making a biblical distinction, because the scriptures make a distinction between those who are in error as opposed to those who are heretics.

A heretic is not a brother in Christ. They believe a different spirit, they believe a different gospel, they believe in a different Jesus.

Ultimately, they believe in a different God. And these are the categories that the New Testament gives us for determining whether or not somebody is either an erring brother or a heretic who is not a

Christian brother at all. So this is why we say the Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians. They have a different Jesus, they have a different spirit, they have a different gospel altogether.

Same with the Mormons. So here, Jacob Prash is acknowledging that he at least has some understanding of this distinctive.

And one of the things that, let's just say, premillennials have a bad habit of doing is anathematizing people on eschatological grounds.

Eschatology is not a primary, fundamental doctrine. So there are people who are true brothers and sisters in Christ who are premillennial.

There are people who are true brothers and sisters in Christ who are amillennial. There are, funny enough, true brothers and sisters in Christ who are premillennial.

I mean, postmillennial in their beliefs. And the idea here is we don't take eschatology and exalt it to the primary doctrine where we anathematize somebody for their eschatological views.

And so here's what's happening here is that Prash is recognizing this category, but he's finding a very clever way around it.

And the clever way around this important category is the Prash -catalogical narrative that we're listening to that he's discovered.

The discovery that John MacArthur and myself and others are part of an Antichrist spirit conspiracy to deceive people into taking the mark of the beast.

Wish I was making that up, but we continue. There's controversy surrounding the timing of the rapture and the parousia.

Godly people disagree on pre -trib, pre -wrath, mid -trib, post -trib, important issues.

But it does not make the brethren who believe one particular point of view heretics.

They may be mistaken, but— So no, he knows the distinction. It doesn't make them heretics.

He recognizes this distinction. It doesn't make them heretics. Important issues, yes, but not things we should divide over.

Not things we should divide over, okay? So he recognizes that eschatology is not something we should divide over.

They're important issues for prayerful discussion. Things like this, amillennial, premillennial, postmillennial.

And I'm amillennial. So no, he doesn't—by his own admission, I shouldn't be thrown out of the body of Christ and considered a heretic for being amillennial.

Now, as you know, I am of the view that the rapture will not happen until the faithful Christians know who the

Antichrist is. I take the scriptures literally. And I am of the view that there will—

By the way, yeah, amillennials take the scriptures literally where the scriptures are meant to be taken literally.

Where they are symbolic, they understand that they're symbols. Be a millennial reign of Christ. I'm premillennial.

But I know people who love the Lord who have different views. I think they're mistaken, but they're my brethren.

Okay, so again, no, I'm referencing this because he's inconsistent in how he applies this, because John MacArthur, he's a—John

MacArthur, by the way, is premillennial, just like Jacob Prash. Yet he anathematizes

MacArthur. Why? Well, we'll see. I'll discuss.

But when it's something fundamental, something deadly, we have a problem. A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

They may be 90 percent— By the way, and I gotta point this out, something fundamental,

Scripture defines what's fundamental. Different Jesus, different spirit, different gospel. Those are the fundamentals of the

New Testament that put somebody outside of the faith and makes them a heretic. Not what

Jacob Prash determines is fundamental or not fundamental. —percent right, but that 10 percent arsenic will kill.

One example of this is how Antichrist is attempting to deceive the elect.

All right, so this becomes—so now, this is a fundamental now. This is something that makes somebody a heretic, and this is all about how the

Antichrist—by the way, what's his name? Which leader is the

Antichrist right now? What's his name? If you don't know the name of the

Antichrist right now, this is all still speculation. So the

Antichrist is trying to do something. So here's an example of a fundamental that makes somebody a heretic. —It is obvious that the word faith money preaches.

People like Benny Hinn, who I once confronted as a false prophet making false predictions, I confronted him eyeball to eyeball in Hawaii.

Or people like Kenneth Copeland, or people like Mike Bickle. These people have made major false predictions in the name of the

Lord. —Now, this isn't his point. He's just pointing out, you know, one of the things I would note that dealing with the

Prashians, I always enjoy it when they talk to me on social media. I remember one particular Prashian saying to me,

Chris, why do you always go after the low -hanging fruit, man? The stuff you cover is just so easy.

And I was like, okay. And so I asked him, I said, well, who should I be going after instead? Answer, John MacArthur.

So him mentioning Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Mike Bickle is to make the point that it's just obvious that these guys are, like, you know, total deceivers.

But no, no, no. He's not about them. This is about Jacob Prash's discovery of the real weapon being used by the spirit of Antichrist right now.

—According to the Book of Deuteronomy and other scriptures, they are by scriptural definition proven false prophets.

Those who follow such people are in rebellion against the Lord, and they are being set up for the false prophet, who will ultimately point people to Antichrist.

This is very serious. —I don't disagree, except for I'm not premillennial.

—This is the work of Antichrist. Well, but it's obvious.

—But it's obvious. It's obvious. Every—anybody with a Sunday school second -grade education could figure this out.

Really? Then why are so many tens and hundreds of millions of people deceived by these folks?

I just ask. —It's obvious to a discerning and biblically knowledgeable Christian that Satan is using these false prophets of the word faith.

It should be obvious that he's using the false prophets of the New Apostolic Reformation and its adjuncts.

—Should be obvious. It should be obvious, man. —The mysticism and gnosticism of Reading California with Bill Johnson.

This is setting the stage for Antichrist, undoubtedly. —Oh, I agree, and it's completely part of the apostasy prophesied by the

Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians. Totally agree. —The ecumenical movement is setting the stage for Antichrist.

—Agree, yeah, ecumenical movement as spearheaded by I would even name Rick Warren. —The facts are there.

The interfaith movement are setting the stage for Antichrist. All of these things.

—Yeah, but that's not the point that he's trying to make. This is not the group he's trying to warn people against.

—However, what happens when someone who appears to be orthodox...

—Appears to be orthodox. Note the phrase, appears. —From our own ranks.

—From our own ranks. —Becomes an agent of Antichrist.

—All right, so from our own ranks, somebody who appears to be orthodox is a, quote, agent of Antichrist.

Who would that be? —Remember, the Antichrist is the son of perdition.

—I'm fully aware of that biblically, thanks, Jacob. —Judas is the son of perdition.

—Okay, so note here, now the illusion is that this person is just like Judas, man.

He's in our ranks, but he's totally betrayed Jesus. —When we see something about Judas, the

Holy Spirit is teaching us something about the Antichrist to come. —So

Judas is a prototype of the Antichrist. —Lord, is it I? Lord, is it I?

Nobody except Jesus knew who he was. No one had any idea.

—But Jacob Prash knows who the real Judas is among us right now. He knows. Jacob Prash knows.

—He camouflaged his agenda too well. He seemed to be... —He camouflaged his agenda.

It's intentional deception, man. —...too much one of them, too orthodox, to be the one who was the son of perdition.

Well, it's the same strategy happening today. —Same strategy, man. It's happening right now, in front of our eyes.

—Jesus said there'll be many Antichrists before the ultimate one. That's part of the problem.

There'll be so many, when the ultimate one shows up, people will at best think he's just another one, and they won't even recognize him as that initially.

Satan is setting the stage, preparing the trap. —So the trap is set, man.

So who's the bait, man? Who's leading us down the primrose path into perdition?

—But let's look at this now very carefully. Lord, is it I? If possible, the elect will be deceived.

Satan must get into the camp. —He's already in, man. —Who better to do it?

—Now, note he's asking a question, and the question is postulating the answer.

Who better to do it? —Who better to set the stage for Antichrist among sincere

Bible -believing, otherwise discerning Christians? If possible, the elect will be deceived.

Who better to do it than people who outwardly, outwardly appear to be the diametric opposites of false prophets and false teachers?

I speak of the Reformed cessationist camp. —The whole camp, man.

Now, by the way, I'm not Reformed. I'm a Lutheran. Confessional Lutheran. I'm not one of those

Lutherans that flies the rainbow flag or anything like that. No, those guys are

Lutherans in name only, gals. No, I'm a confessional, biblical Lutheran.

That's what I am. I'm not Reformed. Reformed refers to Calvinists. I'm not a Calvinist.

So it's fascinating that I find myself putting this video together because I stand outside of this fray a little bit and offer a different perspective.

But to sit there and say that the Calvinist Reformed cessationist camp, that the whole lot of them, man, they are the mother of all deceptions concocted by the spirit of Antichrist to get you to embrace and worship the beast man and take the mark of the beast, this is loony tunes.

In fact, you know, the Beatles song, Taxman, comes to mind. Yeah, except for I've reworked the lyrics a little bit.

And I'm the prash man. Whoa, I'm the prash man. And the rapture's for no one but me.

Prash man. Yeah, you get the idea here. This is nuts.

This is bonkers. We continue. I'm only stating facts.

No, you're not. You're stating theories. You're stating prash -catalogical speculations.

I'm not attacking. Yeah, you are. Stating documented facts.

No, you're not. Where is it documented that the entire Calvinist Reformed cessationist camp is a deception concocted by the spirit of Antichrist?

Where are your facts for that? At Liberty University. All right, so now he's going to go on about Liberty University and stuff that they did.

I didn't know that Falwell was a cessationist Calvinist, did not know that. So I'm going to fast forward to a little bit farther into the video after that particular rant so that we can see what it is that comes next.

Because again, this whole prash -catalogical narrative is bonkers, but this is the thing that's motivating

Lydia Chavez, also known as Service Prashy, and Jacob Prash and all of his followers and people and all this kind of nonsense.

So we fast forward just a little bit, we continue. We are told directly, emphatically, whoever takes the mark of the beast, the smoke of their torment will go up forever and ever.

We are told emphatically that those who take the mark of the beast will not be in the resurrection of the righteous, they will not be resurrected until the end of the millennium for judgment, for sentencing.

That's what it says. That's exactly what it says. That is what Christians have always believed, in orthodox eschatology.

Yeah, you'll know that premillennialism historically is not an orthodox eschatology.

It's not what the Church Fathers believed at all. So Kiliasm is what it's referred to as historically, and that's not the view, the eschatological understanding of like Augustine and others, even

Irenaeus and other people like that. This Kiliasm, the premillennial view, especially the belief in the rapture, pre -tribulation rapture, that's a newcomer historically within Christian theology.

Newcomer. Like within the past 150 years. Yeah, I'm pointing all of that out because what he says is not historically accurate.

It's not even lucid in so many levels. But we continue. They've always believed that.

Now you have John MacArthur. Of all people,

John MacArthur, teaching it will be possible to take the mark of the beast, sell your soul to Satan, worship the

Antichrist, follow the false prophet, and still repent and be saved and be born again.

So what he's doing here is he's taking a statement made by John MacArthur during a

Q &A session, and it's the Prashians who've drugged this thing out and have made this an issue.

In fact, later in this episode of Fighting for the Faith, I have an interview, a short interview with Phil Johnson to discuss this fact.

In fact, we'll play for you what John MacArthur said and put it in its context and what the response is.

So here's the deal, is that John MacArthur is not actively going out there right now telling everybody, go ahead, take the mark of the beast, man.

You can repent later, dude. He ain't doing that. And what

Prash is doing here is taking a statement made by MacArthur that he gave in an answer to a

Q &A, and we're talking decades ago, and pulling it into the future as if somehow this is some ongoing teaching.

And again, this totally requires that premillennialism is a right understanding of Revelation, and that's debatable, highly debatable.

And number two, that somehow that this is all what Prash has really discovered here, that John MacArthur is the tool of the spirit of Antichrist, and this is part of a great deception to deceive you into taking the mark of the beast.

And of course, the first seal of the book of Revelation, man, that thing was probably broken open last week, or two weeks ago during the riots around the world.

So we got a problem here, and his recounting of this is not even remotely accurate as far as a doctrine that MacArthur believes and teaches and stuff like that.

We'll get into that. Where does he get that? He directly contradicts the

Word of God! He rejects what it says! No, actually, he cross -references what

Jesus said is the unforgivable sin. There is only one unforgivable sin.

One. And taking the mark of the beast is not listed by Christ as the unforgivable sin.

And so this is an exegetical conversation if you want to have it, but look at what he's done.

He's taken MacArthur's statement totally out of context, doesn't even listen to the exegetical explanation regarding it, assumes that the eschatological view behind it is the only correct view, and he's anathematized

John MacArthur not on grounds of a different Jesus, a different spirit, or a different gospel, but a different interpretation of the mark of the beast and the implications regarding taking it or not.

He dismisses emphatically what it states emphatically. No, he doesn't.

You're totally making that part up. And then when cornered by his own words, he attempts to divert the conversation by saying it's not the unpardonable sin.

No, he doesn't attempt to divert the conversation at all, he just gave an exegetical answer to a question here that...and

I hate to say this, but aside from Jacob Prash looking like a used car salesman, a used eschatological car salesman, he's behaving like somebody who's on the autism spectrum.

And I'm not saying that to be disrespectful. I'm saying that rather than engaging in brotherly conversation regarding a point of exegesis that needs to be discussed in a brotherly manner, he's concocted an entire narrative now that John MacArthur is the quintessential tool of the spirit of Antichrist designed to deceive you so that you'll end up in hell.

That is unhinged, to say the least. We continue.

It doesn't matter, they're not going to repent. There's no repentance for those people. It's not going to happen.

That's your opinion. Again, the question is what does the

Mark of the Beast mean, what does that section of the book of Revelation actually refer to? They're not going to be resurrected.

They're not among the righteous. The smoke of their torment will go up forever and ever. So he's taken this particular exegetical tack interpretation of Revelation 13, and he's exalted this,

Prash has exalted this, to a fundamental doctrine that puts you outside of the

Christian faith if you don't agree with his interpretation. That's the problem here.

Don't take that mark! Oh, I agree. Don't take the mark. As an amillennialist, don't take the mark.

Under any circumstances, don't take the mark. I agree with that, but for way different reasons.

Oh, but John MacArthur said it's all right. No, he didn't. He didn't say it's all right, but he says there's going to be people who can do it and still be saved.

He said it's not the unforgivable sin, and he's correct on that. No, John MacArthur has become a voice motivated not by the

Spirit of Jesus, but in this case, at least, by the Spirit of Antichrist. He's being used by Satan to prepare for the coming of the

Antichrist. All right, so there it is. I mean, he's basically come right out and said it.

John MacArthur's being used by the Spirit of Antichrist to prepare people for the Antichrist. John MacArthur's outside of the

Christian faith, man. How does he know? Well, because he disagrees with Jacob Prash and his interpretation of a really complicated, and I mean complicated, bit of Scripture.

Yeah, that does not give any kind of warrant to anathematize

John MacArthur. Just like Jerry Falwell. Yeah, just like Jerry Falwell, man.

So that's the second part of this. There's more to the narrative, and so we will fast forward to the next bit, but you kind of get the idea here.

And in this, he's going to go after, well, Todd Friel, of all people.

And he's anathematized Todd Friel. Todd Friel is part of the

Antichrist conspiracy. Why? Well, because Todd Friel doesn't believe that Rick Warren is a heretic.

Now, I know Friel. We've talked about Rick Warren together privately.

And I can tell you, Friel believes that Rick Warren is a false teacher and a very dangerous one at that.

But watch what he does regarding Todd Friel. This is textbook

Prashkitology and Prashian false narratives. Yet Rick Warren teaches this.

He actively teaches this Antichrist agenda. This agenda of the false...

The agenda, by the way, here, the Antichrist agenda, is the unifying of multiple faiths together.

And I agree with Prash on this part. Rick Warren is... To say he's ecumenical is an understatement.

And now, I want to make this perfectly clear. I personally do not believe that Rick Warren is a brother in Christ.

I just don't. And I do so on the basis of, I don't believe that you can be a

Christian and twist the Scripture as badly as he does, and I believe that his orthodoxy is a filing cabinet orthodoxy.

And I base that on his preaching as well as my personal conversations with him.

But here's the thing. Whether or not I believe Rick Warren is a heretic or not, and I believe he is, is not the basis for determining whether or not somebody else is a false teacher or not.

So, for instance, Todd Friel. Todd Friel doesn't believe that Rick Warren's a heretic. I disagree with him.

But whether or not Friel is a brother in Christ does not depend on whether or not he anathematizes

Rick Warren. All right? So, what's going to end up happening is that when this is all said and done, and Friel and I are enjoying our lives in eternity on the new earth, right?

And here's what's going to happen. Either Rick Warren's going to be there with us or he's not. And one of us is going to be able to say to the other one, told ya, okay?

And personally, I think I'm going to be able to tell Friel, you know what? Told ya Rick Warren wasn't a brother in Christ.

I told you he was a heretic. I personally believe Rick Warren is a heretic. Friel doesn't.

Do I anathematize Friel because of that? No. Friel still thinks he's a false teacher and he warns people publicly about Rick Warren's ecumenicism and his false teaching and his scripture,

I mean, everything else. So, you don't determine someone's orthodoxy based upon whether or not they take a current person and they label them as a heretic or as a false teacher.

That's a distinction that has to be carefully weighed according to the biblical standard.

Again, the biblical standards are different Jesus, different spirit, different gospel, all right?

Or a different God. Personally, I think Rick Warren fails on the different Jesus as well as the different gospel part.

But that's somebody who's reviewed many, many, many, many of Rick Warren's sermons over the decades.

And also, you know, I would say take a look at the damage this man has done to the body of Christ with his whole purpose -driven

Church model. I mean, he's almost single -handedly responsible for the destruction of evangelicalism more so than any other human on the planet.

So I personally think Rick Warren is a heretic. That's what I personally believe. Can I prove it?

No. It's just based on, you know, my educated guess regarding that.

If you disagree with me, does that mean you're not a Christian? No. It means we just disagree on that, you know?

It's a point that is debatable, but not in Prash's view. No, in Prash's view, if you do not label

Rick Warren as a heretic, oh man, you're part of the Antichrist conspiracy to get people to take the mark of the beast.

I was making that up, but I'm not. Let's back this up just a little bit for context. Yet Rick Warren teaches this.

He actively teaches this Antichrist agenda, this agenda of the false prophet.

He teaches it. It is Antichrist. Okay. It is indefensibly

Antichrist. Yet we have John MacArthur's syncophant.

All right. So John MacArthur... So John MacArthur, I mean,

Prash suffers from John MacArthur derangement syndrome, the way so many on the left suffer from Trump derangement syndrome.

It's fascinating. So Todd Friel, he's John MacArthur's sycophant, man.

He's in on this too, man. He's in on this too. On his videos defending

Rick Warren. No, that's completely inaccurate. Todd Friel is not defending

Rick Warren. Todd Friel is making a very important biblical distinction.

And the distinction is whether or not Rick Warren is a false teacher or whether or not

Rick Warren is a heretic. I personally believe Rick Warren is a heretic.

But Friel believes that he's a false teacher. Now, let me show you the soundbite in question.

Here's Todd Friel. According to Prash, this is Todd Friel defending the

Antichrist agenda of Rick Warren. Well, is that what's really going on here?

No. Just watch. Let's use Rick Warren, for example. Rick Warren, look,

I am not nuts about the purpose -driven church business. Don't like it. Don't like it at all. His ecumenism with Roman Catholicism, I think, is very problematic.

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Does this sound like he's promoting Rick Warren's ecumenical

Antichrist -driven agenda? No, because you'll note what he said here. Very problematic.

His presentation of the gospel. I have never heard a robust gospel come out of the mouth of Pastor Rick Warren.

Neither have I. And I have actually confronted him to his face regarding it.

Is he a heretic? No. So, does this mean that Todd Friel is defending

Rick Warren's agenda? No. He's just making a distinction between a false teacher and a heretic.

Somebody who is an erring brother and a heretic. A heretic is not a Christian. That's the distinction that he's making here.

And Prash has elevated this to, now Todd Friel is defending the

Antichrist agenda of Rick Warren. No, he's not. No.

Go ahead and grill him on penal substitutionary atonement. He's there. Justification by faith alone, grace alone, and Christ alone.

Is he your cup of tea? Probably not. Is he a heretic? No. Right. Yeah.

So, you'll note that if you were to grill Rick Warren down the line, does he believe in the doctrine of the

Trinity, salvation by grace through faith alone? All of the things that you should be able to tick the box off on theologically, that falls into the category of primary

Christian doctrines, Rick Warren would say, oh yeah, I believe that. Does he teach it? No.

Do his actions undermine that? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So, I think he has what

I call a filing cabinet orthodoxy. He can say, oh yeah, I signed an orthodox statement over there, but he does not teach it.

And I've never, and I mean never, heard him preach the gospel, ever.

And I've listened for it for decades. So, anyway, so here's the thing. Prash has determined that Todd Friel, the sycophant of the

Antichrist deception guy, John MacArthur, he defends

Rick Warren's Antichrist agenda. No, he doesn't. He just refuses to say that Rick Warren's an actual heretic.

That's it. He's not defending Rick Warren at all. He's just saying, yeah, he's probably an erring brother.

I disagree with Friel. So, do I have to anathematize Friel? No, because we can have a brotherly disagreement about this, and we'll figure out who's right once we get into the new earth.

Friel and I will work all of that out. He's going to owe me big money, by the way, because when it comes down to the bet,

Rick Warren ain't going to be with us. I'm just saying, just saying. Let me back this up then, so we can listen again to Prash's false statement regarding the sycophant,

Friel. Sycophant, Todd Friel, on his videos, defending

Rick Warren. No, he's just refusing to say that he's a heretic. That's not defending

Rick Warren. Defending a false prophet who is pushing the

Antichrist agenda of false spiritual unity. Yes, see, man, it's the

Antichrist agenda, man. Who's discovered the Antichrist agenda? It's Prash, man. He's discovered the

Antichrist agenda, dude. Oh, man. And John MacArthur, he's the linchpin.

And Todd Friel, he's... Oh, man. Yeah, that's what's going on here, dude. The problem is

Prash's narrative. To bring in a counterfeit piece. Todd Friel defends this.

No, he doesn't. You're totally slandering him. Another fundamentalist, reform cessationist.

Now, it is true that Friel is a Calvinist and he's a cessationist. That's true. What do you do with people like John Piper?

Go on YouTube and watch for yourself. Yeah, I've publicly critiqued

John Piper and his false teaching. And the weird thing he did at the conference with Beth Moore.

Yeah, it's in the archives of my podcast. John Piper on a platform standing with Beth Moore, the hyper charismatic,

I would say hyper charismatic lunatic fringe. Now, a little bit of a note here.

Prash is not a cessationist. Prash is a...

He's a charismatic. Just saying. False teacher.

They were leading thousands of people in the Lectio Divina. Yeah, they were.

I'm the one who broke the story years ago. New age visualization. What's he doing with a woman like that?

But there he was. There he was, man. Straight from the lunatic fringe, there's

John Piper. The fact that Prash talks about the lunatic fringe unironically.

Whoo! Yeah, that's crazy talk right there. Who's also someone who subscribes to the errors of replacement theology.

Supercessionism. John Piper. Todd Friel. John MacArthur and his sycophants like Phil Johnson.

And Chris Rossborough. That's right. Apparently I'm a John MacArthur sycophant myself too.

Who knew? Yeah. It's like, I don't listen to John MacArthur. Never met the man.

I'm a confessional Lutheran. I have a great working friendship with Phil Johnson.

But apparently I've now been elevated to sycophant status. And that makes me what?

A conspirator. I'm a co -conspirator. Working with the spirit of Antichrist so that you...

You will be deceived into taking the mark of the beast. This is just nuts.

And Justin Peters? Yeah, Justin Peters too, man. You want to know why Lydia Chavez went after Justin Peters the way he did?

This is the reason why. Because Lydia Chavez, service prashie, he is a total bought -in cult member of the cult -like group known as the

Prashians. Oh, he's... Oh man, he follows the orders of his cult leader to a

T. Jerry Falwell and the faculty at Lutheran... Yeah, so it keeps going on about Jerry Falwell, which

I don't understand. I don't even consider Jerry Falwell to actually be solid in any sense of the word.

So then the last bit, the last bit here that we'll take a look at is... Well, actually, let's do a little bit more on the

Todd Friel bit, shall we? There's a follow -up video on Todd Friel. I want you to see what, back on October 11th, 2018, after Todd Friel's video that he put out...

And let's take a look at the date. So October 9th, 2018, all Todd Friel did was say,

Yeah, Rick Warren, he's dangerous. He's a false teacher, but I don't think he's a heretic.

But that's all he did. But so on the spot then, Prash lost his mind. And on Service Prashy's YouTube channel, on October 11th, just a couple days later, and you'll note here, let me go ahead and scroll this up.

You can see this is on Service Prashy's, Lydia Chavez's YouTube channel.

Prash just comes unglued on Todd Friel. Let's listen to this. But Rick Warren says we have to partner with the worshippers of other gods to bring in global peace.

We have to partner with worshippers of demons in order to have a world -transforming agenda to bring in peace.

This is what the Antichrist and false prophet will do. Here we go again.

He knows what that Antichrist is up to, man. A counterfeit peace by bringing the world's false religious system into league with its corrupt political economic system.

This is the agenda of the Antichrist. Which he seems to be an expert on, man.

And you say he's not a heretic? So he anathematizes

Todd Friel for Friel refusing to say that Rick Warren's a heretic.

He's not endorsing Rick Warren. But let's continue. A man who says to partner with people who worship demons and other gods, and you dare, dare tell the body of Christ he's not a heretic?

Either you are an ignoramus or you are a liar, Todd Friel. Yeah, we call that the bifurcation fallacy.

Yeah, it's a logical fallacy. It is indeed. I'm not judging which of—

Yeah, actually, you are judging, but you're just refusing to judge which of the two. Let me back this up.

It's a bifurcation fallacy. Which, by the way, the answer to the question, what is Todd Friel? He's a careful discernmentalist who actually recognizes that heresy requires a particular biblical standard, and one that he's not prepared to say that Rick Warren meets.

Again, I disagree with him. That doesn't make Todd Friel dangerous.

It just means he's careful. Okay, listen again. You dare, dare tell the body of Christ he's not a heretic?

Either you are an ignoramus or you are a liar, Todd Friel. I'm not judging which of the two you are, but for your own sake,

I pray to God you're an ignoramus, because if you're not, you're a liar from hell.

Yeah, just rich in the love of Christ, you know what I'm saying? Just oozing with the love of Jesus there.

An apologist for Antichrist deception. The arch -promoter in the

American Midwest of Rick Warren has been John Piper. Yeah, he goes on and on about Piper.

All right, so next segment here as we wind up the actual narrative that is motivating

Lydia Chavez and others. And once you can see the narrative, then you understand why they're doing what they're doing.

Let's keep going here. And so I think I get honorably mentioned again here. Let's see here.

He's gonna play the Pharisee card. Here we go. This reminds me of the

Sadducees and Pharisees. They hated each other, and the

Pharisees hated the Romans, but they teamed up with people who they detested against Jesus.

They make alliances with people they otherwise hate. Right. So yeah, so a bunch of people out there have aligned themselves to each other to align themselves against Jesus, because they hate

Jesus. Against the Lord Jesus. How people like Justin Peters, apparently.

Justin Peters, man. He's aligned himself against Jesus. Certainly Phil Johnson and Chris Roseborough.

They seem to love John MacArthur more than they love Jesus Christ. What? This is

Looney Tunes. This is nuts. The issue here, Jacob, is you've taken something that is an exegetically debatable point, and you've exalted it to a fundamental by which you are anathematizing people.

The problem here is your methodology. The problem is your prashkitology.

The problem is you're unhinged, and you're not making proper distinctions.

And your narrative that all of us have somehow aligned. We hate Jesus. We love

John MacArthur more than we love Jesus, and we'll do anything, anything, to defend John MacArthur. That's just nuts.

It's absolutely bonkers. And let's just say that Jacob Prash doesn't exactly have a history of being, how shall we say, sound of mind when it comes to John MacArthur.

Yeah, let's just play a few examples here. This is Jacob Prash while John MacArthur, or recently after John MacArthur had done the

Strange Fire Conference. And we'll just play some of these greatest hits. The annotations, by the way, are provided by Phil Johnson, and you can find this on Phil Johnson's YouTube channel.

Let's listen in. John MacArthur says that he's come to the determination that all charismatics, even moderate ones, even moderate

Pentecostals, are of the lunatic fringe. Yet the keynote speaker at his

Strange Fire Conference was R .C. Sproul, the

Reformed infant sprinkling crackpot who was the arch architect of the

Y2K fiasco. R .C.

Sproul had nothing to do with Y2K. This is nuts.

He goes out and recruits a theological lunatic as his keynote speaker to stereotype all charismatics and Pentecostals as extreme, which is not the case.

Rallying to his defense and support is his lapdog,

Phil Johnson, Jimmy DeYoung, who

I've always regarded as a crackpot. What? I'm not here to revile, but their beliefs are crackpot beliefs.

Right. Yeah, yours are solid, I'm sure. I'll fast forward a little bit.

I'm not going to play the whole thing, but we just continue with more of Jacob Prash's greatest hits.

The best way I can say it is he suffers from John MacArthur derangement syndrome. John MacArthur, you are no better than the hyper charismatics you denounce.

I only met John MacArthur once. I spoke on a panel at his church at a conference.

He almost deceived me. Don't let him deceive you.

That man has gone away from the word of God.

When you depart from the word of the

Lord. It's because you've departed from the Lord of the word for his own sake.

For his own sake. I sincerely hope he repents for the sake of those who subscribe to the deception of that.

What exactly does he need to repent of? Could we get actual charges, please?

For their own sake. I sincerely hope that they will keep away from such a dangerous, misguided man.

Okay, and we got a little bit more of Jacob Prash's greatest hits.

Let's just keep playing. I guess we'll keep going from here. Your opinion.

You can have your opinion. I respect your right to your opinion.

I respect you. Maybe I even respect your opinion.

But don't make a doctrine out of it. Isn't that weird?

See, here's the thing is that Jacob Prash has taken his opinion, made a doctrine out of it, and anathematized anybody who teaches anything different than his opinion.

Weird. Don't divide over it. He's dividing over it.

And don't nullify what the word of God plainly states. Based on something it doesn't.

My offer to debate you stands, Mr. MacArthur. I don't want one of your flunkies.

I want the big banana. He wants the big banana, man.

See you at the podium of debate. Bring your Bible. Have a good night.

Yeah, so I mean, it gives you an example of, you know, just what we're dealing with here. This is unhinged stuff.

Now, here's the thing. Jacob Prash has a decades -long history, and I mean history, of maligning, slandering, abusing, and manipulating.

And so much so that other groups and other people have claimed that his group is a cult.

And I'll point this out, and we'll start here. TBC Kawai, and we'll have a link to these on the

Fighting for the Faith website. In fact, let me show you that real quick. On the

Fighting for the Faith website, we'll put a link to this article that I put together, and it's a long title.

The Mountain of Evidence that Jacob Prash and his followers, including Joshua, I should say, Lydia Chavez, are a doomsday cult comprised of spiritual abusers and thug bullies.

That's the reality here. And we've got evidence here, and let's just say it's copious.

It is a mountain of evidence. Back in the mid -2000s, in fact, early 2000s, there was a group that, an internet group, that said, that put

Prash's group, the Moriel Ministries, on their list of abusive cults to be avoided.

And nothing's changed here. So, I mean, we've got video after video after video.

We've got Lydia Christie cursing out the church security at the

Times Square Church in Manhattan. Video documentary series, and this is a weird one.

Documentary after documentary chronicling the abuse, lies, cult -like behavior of Prash and his followers.

This is like the worst TV, how do

I put it? It's live TV, it's based on somebody's life.

It's the worst Netflix series ever, is the best way I can put it. It's all on Vimeo. And so we've put links here, and these things are hours long.

And James White even makes an appearance here talking about Jacob Prash's scorched earth policy.

In fact, if you question or challenge the narrative, or Jacob Prash, they have a scorched earth policy that they employ against you.

And this is how cults behave. I hate to say that, but that's just the truth. And so there's video after video after video.

And the people that Jacob Prash, and Moriel, and Service Prashy, and also known as Lydia, I find it fascinating that they always depict

Lydia Chavez is in drag ever since a particular thing that's documented in these videos here.

Yeah, this is a group, let's just say that they are known, well known, well known for their hatred, their slander, their vitriol, their abuse, their over -the -top rhetoric and tactics, and the things they employ.

So if you really want to know what's going on here, is why is it that Lydia Chavez is attacking

Justin Peters? Why did he go after that? Well, it's real simple, actually. The reason why

Lydia Chavez and Prash went after Justin Peters is because, well, how shall

I say this? Doreen Virtue had the audacity to question the narrative, and you're not allowed to do that.

So let's see if I can find this real quick here. Yeah, that's Lydia Chavez. Here we go. On May 2nd, 2020, you'll note that Doreen Virtue on her channel had

Pastor Phil Johnson on to discuss the Mark of the Beast. And it was just days after that that Lydia Chavez on his channel launched into Doreen Virtue, Justin Peters, and launched into Phil Johnson.

That's what started the kerfuffle, and it was that Doreen Virtue, how dare she? How dare she allow

Phil Johnson to show their false Prashkitology and their end -times narrative to be false, because everything hinges in their

Prashkitology, everything hinges on John MacArthur being an agent of the

Antichrist. Without that, they don't have as much mojo.

Within their own group. So they cannot allow the narrative to be questioned or challenged. So I mean, that's what that's all about.

And let's just say that the evidence out there, if you were to just type in, you know, Jacob Prash cult in Google, you'd be surprised at what comes up.

And it's in that regard then, after we've listened to Jacob Prash and his

John MacArthur derangement syndrome, you know, Lydia Chavez suffers from that same delusional problem here.

Let's listen in. Well, I guess Justin's holier than God, because I got this language from the

Bible. Yeah, he calls John MacArthur a spiritual whore. And I guess Justin Peters missed

Ezekiel in all of his Bible studies. Ezekiel 1620.

I am Chavez! Have you renounced John MacArthur? Thou hast played the whore also with the

Assyrians. That's what it says. Yeah, talking about the Assyrians. You need to actually substantiate the fact that John MacArthur is a spiritual whore.

Because thou wast unsatiable. Yea, thou hast played the harlot with them. You know, like a prostitute.

And yet couldest not be satisfied. Ezekiel 1615. But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playest the harlot because of thy renown.

So is John MacArthur trusting his own beauty, man? Like to know that. And pourest out thy fornications on everyone who passed by.

It was his. So I don't know if Justin Peters is just not familiar with the concept? Is that it?

Or is it just because you're an idolater of John MacArthur? Yeah, again, bifurcation fallacy here.

Because the other option is John MacArthur is a brother in Christ, and you might disagree with his exegesis regarding the mark of the beast, but that doesn't make him a spiritual whore.

I just can't believe it. Yeah, anyone who tells me that I can take the mark of the beast and worship the

Antichrist in his image, and they say it with a straight face as a presumed teacher of God's Word?

That person is a spiritual whore, Justin. Yeah. So let's take a look at this.

So you'll note that Servus Prashi, he doesn't serve Christ. He serves

Prash. Servus Prashi, also known as Lydia Chavez, he's drunk the Kool -Aid regarding John MacArthur, and him being the ultimate deception tool of the spirit of Antichrist designed to get you to take the mark of the beast.

And we all know that the first seal, man, it's been broken, and the whore is about ready to ride the beast at any moment now, man.

Yeah, so let's do a little more fact -checking, shall we? And what we're going to do is we're going to go back in time, and I don't know when this was recorded, but after we play this,

I'm going to invite Phil Johnson on the program, and Phil and I will have a conversation about what was said here.

And whether or not John MacArthur is out there going out there and said, yeah, man, you just go right ahead, and you just take that mark of the beast, dude.

That's not what's going on here. So, this goes back at least three decades. This was either in the late 80s or the early 90s.

And you can tell by the technology that he references, and this is part of a Q &A.

So, during a Q &A session, I don't know how often they do that at his church, and he was asked whether or not somebody can repent after taking the mark of the beast.

Let's listen to the answer. In regard to the latter half of the tribulation period, when men would be required to have the mark of the beast in order to buy or sell, my question is, once a person takes the mark, is there any possibility of him coming to Christ?

Yes. All right, so there's the question. After you take the mark, is there any possibility? This is all speculation.

All speculation. I think, you know, in the seven -year tribulation coming in the future, we're going to get into this probably a week from Sunday night, maybe this

Sunday night, maybe a week, I'm not sure. But the tribulation is a seven -year period, right?

The rapture of the church, seven -year tribulation, then Christ returns, sets up his kingdom. Now, in that seven -year period, really two things happen.

God begins to judge the world with a series of holocausts, and at the same time, he begins to redeem his people

Israel. And in the process of this, the Antichrist establishes his rule, and in order to function in the economy of the

Antichrist, you have to take the mark of the beast. The mark being the number of a man, Revelation 13, 666.

Six is the number of man, right? Seven is the number of perfection, and man always falls short of perfection. Six, six, six, six.

Always six is never seven. So the number of a man. And apparently what's going to happen, you take the mark on your hand or on your forehead.

And we've talked a lot about that, you know, that that's kind of the computer situation. We're now moving fast toward the time when we're going to have to do everything we do by cards and by numbers and all that.

And we're coming to the time we're going to have to do everything by cards and numbers. Notice that when he gave this answer, that technology didn't exist, right?

Those numbers, the thing about a card that's a problem is you lose it, and they've already devised systems to put the number on your hand and on your forehead.

You go through a scanner and, you know, that's how you buy and sell. It's automatically deducted from your bank account. Now, the question is, if you're living in the tribulation period and you take this mark, in other words, you identify with the beast's empire, will you still be able to be redeemed?

And I think the answer to that is yes. Yes. Otherwise, there would be no salvation of anybody in the end of the tribulation.

So note, he's making an exegetical argument. Is this a debatable point?

Obviously, I'm an amillennialist, and I'm listening to this going, yeah, there's some major problems with what he's saying.

Because an amillennialist understands the Mark of the Beast very differently than a premillennialist.

But I digress. Does this make John MacArthur a tool of the devil?

No. And you've got to have the salvation of folks in the end of the tribulation. You're going to have the

Jews redeemed. You're going to have, according to Revelation chapter 7, an innumerable number of Gentiles redeemed, so many they can't even be counted across the face of the earth.

So I don't think the fact that someone takes that is a sentence to permanency any more than you being a part of this world system once in your life means you have to be a part of the system all your life.

Well, especially when the 144 ,000 don't start their ministry until the second half. All right, so you get the idea.

That's the actual quote. In context, so you know, John MacArthur hasn't been out there writing books.

Nine reasons why you could take the Mark of the Beast, and it's no big deal. John MacArthur isn't doing that.

In fact, let's do this. I'm going to pause for a second here, and we're going to bring

Phil Johnson onto the program. And Phil Johnson, who was the right -hand guy of John MacArthur and a good friend of mine, and we're going to talk about this because here's the thing, is that the people who have made this into an issue are the

Prashians. And if it wasn't for them, nobody would remember that John MacArthur taught this at all.

Is this a debatable point? Yes, it is. Is John MacArthur saying to you, go ahead and take the

Mark of the Beast? No, he's not. And so Lydia Chavez and Jacob Prash and all of his followers who keep making hay about this, they have taken a debatable exegetical point on a very complicated biblical text and have exalted it to a primary doctrine.

That's part of the problem here. And they've rolled John MacArthur in, and they know the truth, man.

Their prashcatology says that he's the ultimate tool of the devil to get you to take the Mark of the Beast.

That's not what's going on here. So without any further ado, we'll do a little bit of a hard cut here.

Let me bring Phil Johnson on the program, and we'll have our discussion regarding that.

Phil, thanks for coming on, fighting for the faith. I'm sure you're kind of tired of doing this topic, because you recently did this with Doreen Virtue.

I've seen the Grace to You article on what John MacArthur said regarding the

Mark of the Beast. And I'm sure at this point that somebody's going to accuse me of being a

John MacArthur acolyte. And I'm part of the big deception that's going on out there, apparently.

And this is all to get people to take the Mark of the Beast. At least that's what the narrative is.

But the reason I wanted you on is I wanted to, you've had some history dealing with this kerfuffle, this issue.

And let me ask you kind of a start -off question. Is John MacArthur presently touring the world, or has he given a series of sermons or written a book to the effect of seven reasons why it's okay for you to take the

Mark of the Beast and you can repent before the end and make it to heaven? Is this like a standard stump speech for John MacArthur?

Is this like part of your guys' doctrinal statement there at the Master's Seminary and all that kind of stuff?

What exactly is his activity in teaching this particular doctrine?

Yeah, here are the facts as I know them. I only know of two times in the history of his ministry where this issue has even come up with John MacArthur.

And both times it was in response to questions. The one that kicked off the original,

I don't know, complaint controversy was a

Q &A that dates, I think it dates back to the 1980s. I should have looked it up and gotten the exact date, but it was decades ago.

It was on a Q &A tape that Grace to you distributed for years, and nobody said anything about it until,

I don't know, maybe four or five years ago, around 2015 or maybe 2014, somewhere there. Somebody came across that, dug it out, and posted a recording of it with the words in all caps,

OUTRAGE. John MacArthur says it's okay to take the mark of the beast. The actual question that he was asked was, if someone took the mark of the beast and then repented of it, is that a forgivable sin or is that unpardonable?

And John's answer was based on Jesus' words in Matthew 12, where Jesus himself says all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven, except the blasphemy against the

Holy Spirit. And he's talking in that context about these Pharisees who accused him of doing miracles in the power of Satan, even though they knew better.

These were men who knew that he fit all the qualifications for Messiah, and in,

I think, John 10 or John 11, there's recorded a meeting where they met together, the leaders of the

Jews, and said, what are we going to do? If we let him go like this, everybody's going to believe in him. So it wasn't that they doubted his messianic claims, it's that they knew who he was, but he wasn't the kind of Messiah they wanted.

Their words were, if we let him go, everybody will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away our place and our nation.

So they were protecting their own authority and tried to turn people away from Christ, deliberately lying about where he got the power to do his miracles.

And Jesus basically pointed to that and said, that is the unpardonable sin. Because these men had, with full knowledge and full enlightenment, rejected

Christ, knowing precisely who he was. Now, if the question is, can someone not knowing take the mark of the beast, later repent, is that forgivable?

I think the answer has to be yes, based on Jesus' words. It's a hypothetical question, because the follow -up question would be, is there any evidence that someone who takes the mark of the beast would then repent, especially given the fact that repentance is a gift of God?

No, and I don't know, but given the hypothetical, I think John MacArthur answered it the only way he could.

Jesus was very clear, all manner of sin and blasphemy is forgivable, except for that one thing, and it's not the mark of the beast.

Now, we're going to note something here. I'm an amillennialist, I'm not pre -mill at all. And so, for lack of a better way of putting it,

I've kind of sat slack -jawed on the outside of this debate going, what is this about?

I mean, because somebody who has an amillennial eschatology, or at least understanding of the book of Revelation, has a different view on what the mark of the beast symbolizes.

Right. Now, important to note, as an amillennialist, that does not rule out, in the future, a manifestation of the mark of the beast that could be in conjunction with a global government ruled by, you know, a man who's like Satan incarnate.

It doesn't rule that out, you know, per se, but the way, as an amillennialist,

I read specifically 12 and 13 a little bit differently than somebody like Jacob Prash or yourself, who are pre -millennial, and I see that there are themes within 12 and 13 that are clearly in play today, and have been in play since Christ's Ascension, you know, to the right hand of the

Father, and the kicking off of the Church at the Day of Pentecost. Yeah. All of that being said, you know,

I used to be pre -millennial, and when I was a Nazarene, spent a little bit of time imbibing on some pretty strange theories regarding the end of the world, and the

Rapture, and the Tribulation, and stuff like this, and all I can say is, stuff that I believed in the 80s and 90s didn't really pan out.

You know, global leaders have come and gone, and things have changed, and people's speculations regarding who the

Antichrist was supposed to be, and when all this was supposed to kick off, the stuff

I was being taught, people would laugh you out of the church today if you voiced any of those opinions.

Have you noticed that there really seems to be a fascinating thing within pre -millennialism, is the anathematizing of other people who don't agree with your particular interpretation of how it's supposed to pan out, especially if they believe that the end is imminent?

Yeah, that's right. In fact, there's so much speculation about this, and it seems to be a tendency to me that the more someone gives in to speculation about what is this, what is the fulfillment of this going to be, the more speculative he's willing to be, the more dogmatic he seems to be.

For example, a lot of people believe that the Mark of the Beast is going to be an RFID chip that'll somehow be embedded under your skin, and they're dogmatic about it, and in fact,

I got an email, let me read you this. I got an email from a woman who wrote to John MacArthur, and she says this to him,

I have heard your statement regarding taking the RFID chip implant, and still, you'll make it to heaven when you do take the chip.

Pastor MacArthur, you have made a false claim. Well, she's making a false claim there. He never said anything about an

RFID chip or any of that. No, see, before I put you on this installment of Fighting for the

Pillay, we played the video of John MacArthur and what he said, and the technology he was referencing at the time clearly shows he was not living in the present.

At the time that John MacArthur made this statement, he was talking about cards and scanners, and I remember when the barcodes first came out, and everyone was saying that barcodes like a hidden 666 at the beginning, middle, and end of it, and that barcodes would be used as the mark of the beast.

And then I remember when Apple had their fingerprint as part of the unlock process for using the iPhone, and I, oh man,

I received a ton of emails from people saying, is it okay for me to, or we shouldn't buy the next iPhone because it uses fingerprint technology, and that will be used as the mark of the beast and stuff.

And it's like, what? Yeah, yeah. One of the disturbing things about the whole discussion is that the people who are most upset about it seem to be under the delusion that you could accidentally take the mark of the beast somehow and really not even know it.

Right. And yet, in fact, if you want to know what John MacArthur teaches about it, listen to his exposition of Revelation, where those passages are actually dealt with.

And he goes into great detail, and there's no way he says, man, this is a sin you don't need to worry about or whatever, because the way it's described in the book of Revelation, taking the mark of the beast entails swearing fealty to someone who is anti -Christ.

And I think the reason it's such an egregious sin is you can't do it really blindly.

You know what you're doing. Yeah. And that's why I wonder if the hypothetical is even valid, would someone who does that ever repent?

I don't know. Scripture doesn't even address the possibility, but if they did repent, would it be forgivable?

Yeah. But that doesn't minimize the seriousness, the gravity of the sin. It's like any sin, any sin can send you to hell.

Yep. And saying that if you repent of it, Christ will forgive doesn't negate the seriousness of the sin, and by no means is it the same thing as encouraging someone to commit that sin.

Right. And I would also note that careful exegetes of the book of Revelation on both sides, you know, kind of amillennial and premillennial, have rightly pointed out that the number itself, 666, which falls short of the number 7, which is the number of perfection regarding God, you talk about Christ who walks among the seven golden lampstands, and how throughout the book of Revelation, the numbers referring back to God or to Christ are always in the sevens, and so you've got the 666.

And when you kind of figure out the gematria on this thing, a case could be made that Caesar Nero was probably the prototype of the

Antichrist, and this is going back to the Roman cult where everybody was required to put a pinch of incense in worship to the emperor, and that was the means by which they would tease out whether or not somebody was a

Christian or not for the purpose of slaying them. And so, you know, kind of the prototype of the mark of the beast is involved in the

Roman cult and the worship of Caesar, and the case regarding the gematria, the numbers that add up regarding Caesar Nero, it works in Hebrew, it doesn't work in Latin.

But the point is that this is all pointing to kind of something bigger that relates to the battle that Satan is currently waging against the

Church in defiance and in hatred for being cast out of heaven, for Christ defeating him by the cross, and the whole goal of false religion, which is what the second beast is all about, and then the first beast which comes out of the sea, which is this governmental beast, the whole point of all of this is the squashing of the gospel, and to persecute, to cause the saints to suffer, and that has implications that go all the way back to the time the book of Revelation was written, as well as the times that we find ourselves in today.

I couldn't tell you if Jesus is going to be coming back next Thursday or not, but I can tell you everything in Revelation 12 and 13, and in fact the whole book, but it relates to something that we're experiencing today, and the

Church has been experiencing since its inception. Yeah, you know, I became a Christian in 1971, and at the time, actually on the very month

I became a Christian, the number one book on the New York Times bestseller list was Hal Valenzia's The Late Great Planet Earth, and lots of evangelicals, pretty much every

Christian I knew was obsessed with signs of the end of the time, and people speculating on what this or that prophecy meant, and who the

Antichrist was, and it at least piqued my interest in the subject. I was never swept up in that or any of that, but over the years

I've noticed as I've studied, you know, Bible prophecy, and I've actually collected a large shelf full of books that go all the way back to the 19th century, when people were speculating that the

Antichrist was actually Napoleon, and then others said, no, no, no, it's

Hitler, and as time goes, every, pretty much every unlikable person, and even some fairly likable

U .S. presidents who have risen to positions of world power, someone has found a way to make the number 666 apply to them.

If you're creative enough in how you do the numerology, I think you can make 666 apply to pretty much anybody, but it's some pretty far -reaching interpretations to get there, but seriously,

I think it's impossible to be a leader on the world stage today without somebody thinking, oh, this is the

Antichrist. So that sort of speculation is, I think, a great day to a

Christian, to be swept up in stuff like that that involves so much speculation, it's like there's so much in Scripture that's clear, that commands me, until I'm perfectly submissive to all of that,

I really don't want to engage in needless speculation about the future. And unfortunately, with the global pandemic, the race riots that have erupted worldwide, and the growing fear and anxiety for the future of not only the

United States but also for the world, in light of kind of a resurgent Marxism in the form of the

SJW, social justice movement, and other things like this, I think that there are a lot of people who are misapplying the

Book of Revelation for the purpose of kind of fomenting the expectation that the end is imminent, and here's the thing, it may be, but the reality is the world's been through far worse than this in the last 150 years, and it's not for us to speculate on these things.

Right, and Scripture's clear about that too. Nobody knows the time, and we're supposed to be prepared in case

Christ comes before we think He might. We're also supposed to be prepared in case

He delays more longer than we expect. The Scripture tells us both things, and why that's so hard for so many

Christians, I don't know, but all the needless speculation, I mean, all of that interest in Bible prophecy in the 1970s and going even through the 1980s, you remember 88

Reasons Why Christ Must Return, and all that stuff, always turns out to be counterproductive.

It does much more to undermine people's faith than it does to prompt faith in unbelievers, and so I just refuse to engage in it, but in case anybody's clear, and let me say that in case anyone's unclear, the position of our ministry is and always has been, don't take the mark of the beast.

It's a sin. It's a grievous sin, and you will regret it if you do it, even if it turns out to be a forgivable sin, you'll still face consequences that are grievous, like any other sin.

Yeah, and I'm a millennial. Don't take the mark of the beast. You don't want to do that, and I would note that in Christian history, those who, in times of persecution, you think back to the

Roman persecutions of the saints prior to Christianity being legal, those who saved their own skins by worshiping the

Caesar, they either completely apostatized, fell away, and there were so few instances, and I mean few instances of those who repented in such times, that their ability to return to the

Church afterwards, it made it really difficult, because they would have to worship with those people who, by turn -coding and betraying

Christ, family members and close relatives had lost their lives because of their betrayals, and so to say that it's forgivable is one thing, but listen,

Scripture is so clear on this in that section of Scripture. If you're going to die by the sword, then you're going to die by the sword.

Go ahead. It's the will of Christ for you to lay down your life and to perish. Christ is exalted in you being martyred in this way, and it's a rare blessing to receive that as a gift from Christ.

Right. And so the idea here is that to say that it's forgivable is one thing, but the

Scripture is clear. Don't do it. It's a sin. And again, I'm talking as an amillennial in a premillennial context.

My head, it hurts! Yeah, I'm going to... Yeah, so I'm...

Anyway, I appreciate you being willing to take a few minutes of your afternoon to come on to talk about the topic, and of course, this is in the context of a bigger conversation as it relates to Jacob Prash and his followers, which, for lack of a better way of putting it, they're behaving like a doomsday cult.

And I've carefully defined this so that we don't put them outside the

Christian faith, but the idea here is, because obviously, the historic definition of a cult would mean that you are a heretic.

You deny one of the fundamentals of the Christian faith. But when you behave in a cult -like manner, oftentimes manipulation and lies and slander and this weird indoctrination into a narrative where you know the truth and nobody else does, they behave a lot like that, and that's what makes it scary.

Yeah, I agree. There's a sort of eccentricity that surrounds Jacob Prash that, it would seem to me, ought to signal anyone who hears him teach.

The way he gets angry, the way he says so many bizarre things, and his demeanor and all of that really ought to call question into pretty much everything he says, but it's also disqualifying.

Those are not characteristics of a sound teacher. Right. And in fact, he does not meet the qualifications biblically regarding somebody who is to be teaching in Christ's Church.

His over -anger, his inability to reason lovingly with people he disagrees with.

So I would point out, it's like, so I'm an amillennial, so you're premillennial.

But at the end of the day, whether you're amillennial or premillennial, it's not a doctrine that determines whether or not you are saved or unsaved.

You'll note, Phil, I haven't anathematized you yet for your premillennialism, but I appreciate you likewise not anathematizing me for my amillennialism, but the idea here is that we keep primary doctrines primary, and those are non -negotiable, and then on secondary and tertiary issues, we come to the table and we listen to each other, we listen to each other's understanding of the

Scriptures, and we dialogue together. And so I would note that I'm not a

MacArthur fanboy, I'm a confessional Lutheran, and so I have some very different views of how the

Scriptures are to be understood than John MacArthur has, than you have, and you and I, we've been able to discuss some of those differences over meals together, and we do so as brothers.

But it's very fascinating to me that, you know, nobody is denying what

John MacArthur said, but to say that that is proof that John MacArthur is a tool of the

Antichrist, the spirit of the Antichrist, trying to basically deceive in mass a huge amount of the visible body of Christ so that they will willingly take the mark of the beast and perish eternally, that's just wingnut wackerdoodlism and eschatological wackerdoodlism at its finest, worst, if I could say so.

It's also, I think, a dishonest misrepresentation of what John MacArthur actually said, and I think the person who's probably pushed this harder than anyone is

Jacob Prash, and I'm convinced he's doing it deliberately. I think he just, at any cost, would like to discredit

John MacArthur, and you can see that in some of the things he said otherwise. And we're going to be covering that on this installment of Fighting for the

Faith, because when you take a look at how this man has handled himself in the over -the -top, bizarre rhetoric, and his leveling of allegations and charges without being able to substantially back it up, it's breathtaking.

And what needs to happen is the guy needs to be sat down, and his group that have turned him into the

Savior of the Church, they need to disband. They are behaving like a cult. It's been interesting to me over the years how someone who is so obviously out of tune with both

Scripture and common sense, to some degree, manages to get a following anyway, and I've learned over the years that pretty much anybody who wants to pretend that he has deeper insight or greater authority than somebody else can find people to dupe in order to follow him.

That's how cults get started, and I mean, think of the, what was his name with radio stations that...

Oh, Harold Camping. Yeah, Harold Camping. Yeah, pretty huge following. And that always baffled me, but I've just learned that there's something in human nature,

I think, that makes people gullible for that sort of thing, and if you make an ostentatious claim, and especially if you're a little eccentric, somehow people think there's something magical or spiritual in that eccentricity, and they'll follow it gladly right into hell if necessary.

Yeah. And the reality is that the truth is so much more boring than the conspiracy theories that he's putting together.

It's like, you know, you and I are part of some mass conspiracy by the Antichrist to deceive the

Church. No, it's like, the truth is so much more boring than that. No, we're not.

I'm not on the payroll for John MacArthur. You are, though, you're on the payroll for John MacArthur, and you're the sycophant lackey who's part of the big

Antichrist. It's just nuts. It's just absolutely nuts, and what needs to take place is people need to take a step back and they need to breathe for a minute and just charitably listen to what's being said.

Now, here's the deal. If John MacArthur were out there actively telling people, you just go ahead, you just take that mark of the beast, it's no big deal.

I'd be joining the Prashites going, you gotta watch out for that John MacArthur, man. But the thing is, is that they're the group that's kept this thing alive.

They're the ones who've laid this egg, and nobody would be talking about it today if it weren't for them.

Yeah, I think most people, if they have the sense to sort of investigate the situation, find out what did

John MacArthur actually say? How has he responded to questions about it? It's fairly simple.

When this first came up several years ago, I wrote an article that's still on the Grace To You blog.

If you want to find it, just do a Google search for my name and the word unforgivable with a question mark.

That was the title of the article, unforgivable, where we answered this even back then.

And I think sensible people who read that will find a sufficient answer to any questions they have about what

John MacArthur said. Yeah, indeed. So we'll put a link to that article down in the description of this video for your article on the unforgivable.

And again, anybody who is willing to just breathe, take their time, walk through the evidence.

There is no Antichrist conspiracy going on here. And you heard it from Phil Johnson yourself, don't take the mark of the beast.

I don't think it gets any clearer than that. But I'm looking forward to seeing how the Prashians twist this, and find a way to say that you mean the opposite of what you just said,

Phil. I can't wait to see what they do with this. So, but anyway, thank you for your time.

And you have a great afternoon, sir. And I'll let you get back to your work. Thank you, Chris. Always good to talk to you.

All right. Now, hopefully you found that helpful. You see, the problem here is not

John MacArthur. The problem is Jacob Prash and his bizarre, off the chain, unhinged

Prashcatology, and his basically slandering of brothers in Christ who have differences of opinion on non -essential doctrines.

Now, a little bit of a note here. I was going to point this out before we got too far here, because I wanted you to see the exegesis on this.

And that is that Jacob Prash makes a big to -do about how, you know, this is apparently in Revelation 13, that it's so clear you can't take the mark of the beast and be saved.

But the issue is, and you'll note that Phil Johnson pointed this out, is that, well, how do

I put this? That, again, Scripture makes it clear that the unforgivable sin is a singular sin, and it's the blasphemy of the

Holy Spirit, and it's a particular thing. So, when Scripture talks about how those who take the mark of the beast, that the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever.

In fact, let me do this real quick here. I'm going to duplicate this tab, and we're going to look for the word torment.

And I want to take a look at a particular passage. And in Revelation, let's see here.

So, Revelation 14, and I'm going to add a little bit of context to this.

So, let's see here. Here we've got the ceiling. No one could learn the new song except for the 144 ,000.

So, then I saw another angel, frying delightfully overhead with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth.

He said with a loud voice, God, and give him glory. And then he says to another angel, saying,

Another angel said, saying, if anyone worships the beast and its image, here it is, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and with sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the

Lamb. And so, Jacob Prash's eschatological, not eschatological, exegetical argument is, see, see, this is an absolute, so therefore this is a rock -solid case.

No, actually, it's not, because again, you have to definitively prove that premillennialism is the right way of understanding

Revelation, and I don't think it is at all. And then number two, you have to prove that this is an absolute, which means that there's a second unforgivable sin, and that is taking the mark of the beast.

But the mark of the beast is a symbol of something. But we're going to note something, and that is that in 1

Corinthians 6, Paul writes these words, Now I'm going to note there, that's an exclusive claim.

So, if I were to use Prash's approach, well, you see, Revelation 14 makes it clear, if you take the mark of the beast, you're going to torment every, you're not saved, you're not part of the elect, you're not, you're not, and you do this, again, basic hermeneutics requires that clear texts govern unclear texts, just saying, and Revelation, everything in Revelation is an unclear text because of the symbology involved.

All of that being said, here I can, if I just take this out of context and don't let Scripture interpret Scripture, let's just kind of walk through the list here.

Have you ever committed sexual immorality? Have you ever committed idolatry? Have you committed the sin of adultery?

Let's not even get started on same -sex sins right here. Have you ever stolen anything?

Have you ever been greedy? Have you ever been drunk? Have you ever reviled God's people or been a swindler?

Well, then Scripture says, you will not inherit the kingdom of God. There it is. So, if you've committed any of those sins, you're damned.

You'll note there's a problem here. And that is this, the text goes on to say, and such were some of you, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the

Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. So, you'll note, Scripture makes an emphatic statement that nobody who's committed any of the sins will inherit the kingdom of God, yet the gospel provides forgiveness for everybody who's committed these sins, you and me included.

So, we've got a problem here, and that is that Jacob Prash's hermeneutic and his exegetical methods are spurious, and his conclusions are erroneous and egregious, to say the least.

So, let me end by doing a little bit of biblical work in the book of Revelation, and I've made a big to -do about the fact that I'm amillennial, and let me explain it in kind of these terms.

So, when we look at the thousand years in the book of Revelation, the thousand years is a symbolic number, and it's a symbolic number that has to do with the time from Christ's ascension until His return in judgment.

That's the thousand years, it's a symbolic number. In the same way, then, when we see like the seven seals of the book of Revelation, or the seven trumpets, or the seven bowls, that what is happening in that part of the book of Revelation is that each of them are dealing with the plagues that occur from the time of Christ's ascension until the time of His return.

The seven seals are symbolic of that entire Church age, if you would. And so, the book of Revelation is not linear, it's like a spiral staircase.

What happens is it shows you the end of the world, and then it takes you up another flight of stairs and shows you the end of the world again from a perspective.

And so this is...and I would note that when it comes to understanding the book of Revelation, this is older than premillennialism.

Premillennialism is a novelty, and is not the first crack at how the

Church has understood the book of Revelation. Now, I'm not going to put anyone outside of the body of Christ if they are premillennial.

I would say they are an error, and they are misreading the book of Revelation. All of that being said,

I think it's important for us to take a look at Revelation chapters 12 and 13, and take a look at it exegetically and the significance of it, because Revelation is a book that is not merely telling us quickly about the things that must take place, it is telling us about the things that are taking place.

And it has comfort to offer and a frame of mind for us to adopt as Christians that is now, not then, but now.

And I'll explain that here in a second. And I'll note that in Revelation 11, that we have the...in

there, we have a picture of the end of the world. And here's what it says in Revelation 11, 15, "...the

seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our

Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever." And I noted that in the amillennial way of reading the book of Revelation, that the world ends multiple times.

And the reason why is because it's not linear, it's cyclical. So this is an example of one of the places where in Revelation 11, the world ends, okay?

It's a picture of the end of the world. Here in Revelation 11, now we'll get other pictures of the end of the world, but that's what's going on here.

So, the 24 elders who sit on the thrones before God, they fell on their faces, they worshiped God, saying, "...and we give thanks to you,

God Almighty, who is and who was, for you've taken your great power and you've begun to reign. The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for the rewarding of your servants, the prophets and the saints, and for those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth."

So this is a picture of the end of the world. Then God's temple in heaven was opened, the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple, there were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and earthquake, and heavy hail.

And this is a picture again of the end of the world. And now the picture changes, and you're going to note that one of the things that makes

Revelation so difficult is that everything is wrapped up in these symbolic word pictures.

And so now we've seen the world end, and now Revelation 12 is going to give us a different picture.

And this is the one we need to pay attention to, because Revelation 13, you know, like the Omen movies and stuff like that, you know, the

Damien, all that kind of stuff, everyone focuses on Revelation 13, but you've got to look at, again, three rules for sound biblical exegesis, which are context, context, and context.

And here's what it says. A great sign appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of 12 stars.

She was pregnant and crying out in birth pains in the agony of giving birth. Now a little bit of a note here. This woman is going to be, you can say in some senses, finds its terminus in the

Virgin Mary, but that's not a correct understanding here. Really, this is the woman that is the

Church, both the Old and the New Testament Church. That's what's really being talked about here, and you can see it as the sign unfolds.

And so the sun, the moon, the stars, all of these come back to the picture of the sun, the moon, and the stars bowing down to Joseph, okay, and those are the patriarchs.

And so you got the 12 stars all, again, pointing to the 12 tribes of Israel. This is a picture, then, of the

Church of the Old Testament that gives birth to Christ, and so you can say in one way that the

Virgin Mary is referenced here, but that's really not the point of this picture. And watch what it says. She was pregnant, was crying out in birth pains in the agony of giving birth, and another sign then appeared in heaven.

Behold, a great red dragon with seven heads and ten horns, and on his head seven diadems.

His tail swept a third of the stars of heaven, cast them to the earth, talking about how the devil and his rebellion against God resulted in a third of the angels becoming the demons.

That's what that's referring to. So the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth so that when she bore her child, he might devour it.

Kind of think back when Jesus, after he'd been born, you think of Herod trying to kill the young Jesus.

She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, and the woman fled into the wilderness.

And so here, again, this is not specifically referring to the Virgin Mary, it's talking about the

Church. So the Church now flees into the wilderness where she has a place prepared by God in which she is to be nourished for 1260 days.

And these 1260 days, this is a symbolic figure of the time from Christ's ascension until his return in glory to judge the living and the dead.

So the days here are symbolic. Now, war arose in heaven. Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon.

So once Christ is ascended into heaven, now he sends Michael. Michael destroys and casts the devil down to earth.

And the dragon and his angels, they fought back, but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.

And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent who was called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world.

And he was thrown down to the earth and his angels were thrown down with him. And then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our

God and of the authority of his Christ have come for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down who accuses them day and night before our

God. And they have conquered him by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they love not their lives, even unto death.

Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them. But woe to you on earth and the sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath because he knows that his time is short.

And so you'll note here that with the birth, death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ and him taking his place at the right hand of the

Father, Satan gets thrown down, he is no longer able to accuse the saints, and by the blood of the lamb we have conquered death, we've conquered the devil and the dragon.

So here we got these gospel promises. But here we know then the devil knows that his time is short and he's really angry, okay?

And so he's going to take his wrath out on this church. And so this then becomes the next part of the picture.

So when the dragon saw that he'd been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman, and this is the church, who had given birth to the male child.

But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness to the place where she is to be nourished for a time and times and half a time.

So here we got the time, time, and half a time, again, symbolic of the time from Christ's ascension to the time of his return, symbolic numbers.

So the serpent then poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, he's really upset, to sweep her away with a flood.

But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth.

So the woman's in the wilderness now, just like ancient Israel was in the wilderness, heading to the promised land.

You kind of get the typology? Right. So the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring.

That's us. That's me. That's you if you're a Christian. On those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

And so he stood on the sand of the sea. So here's the thing, the devil's now really angry.

He's going to wage war against all Christians now. That's all of us.

And this is from, again, this is from the time of Christ's ascension until the time of his return. So what does the devil do?

He goes and he stands on the sea, and the sea is the picture of chaos. And out of the sea of chaos, he's going to conjure up one of his weapons in order to wage war against the saints, against the church.

So then I saw a beast rising out of the sea with 10 horns and 7 heads, 10 diadems on his horns, and blasphemous names on its heads.

And the beast that I saw was like a leopard, its feet like a bear's, its mouth like a lion's mouth, and to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and his great authority.

And you'll note that the image from the book of Daniel here, the animal from the book, the different animals from the book of Daniel, now are squished into one, one, well, governmental system.

And to it the dragon gave his power, his throne, his great authority. One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast.

Now, this is typified then in the Roman Empire at the time of Nero, all right?

So here you've got an earthly governmental system that was created for the purpose of waging war against the saints.

And the mortal wound that it has really symbolically points to the fact that this thing keeps coming back, even though in history it's died, it keeps coming back, man.

And so think of it this way, every tyrannical, earthly government that outlaws the preaching of the gospel is in one way or another a manifestation of this weapon conjured up out of the sea by the dragon.

And you think, oh man, if that's the case, then, you know, this would then apply to the ancient

Roman Empire, this would apply to what was called the Holy Roman Empire, which outlawed the gospel, uh -huh.

You know, every earthly tyrannical system, including Sharia, that outlaws the preaching of the gospel, to Marxism, to fascism, all of these evil governmental systems, they have one goal in mind.

The purpose for which they were made is to wage war against the saints, against the

Church, to silence the gospel. And so with the rise of tyranny in our day, and just take a look around at right now, where is the world heading?

Well, here in the United States, we're about to lose all of our freedoms if things keep going the way they're going.

We're going to see the rise of a tyrannical United States of America, where there will be no freedom of religion, where there will be no freedom of speech.

This is a manifestation of this beast. That's what's going on here. This was a governmental weapon created by the dragon for the purpose of waging war against the saints and silencing the gospel.

That's the point. So we continue. So they worship the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, they worshiped the beast, saying, who is like the beast?

Who can fight against it? Indeed, who can? So the beast was given a mouth, uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for 42 months.

So the 42 months, the 1262 days, the times, times, and half of times, it's all the same symbol.

It's just, it's the time from Christ's ascension until the of his return. So this is, that's what this period is.

So this has been going on, this has been going on for two millennia now, okay? So it opens its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name, his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven.

Also, it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. Yeah, have you ever wondered why is it that Christians seem to get the snot kicked out of them all over the world?

That's the reason why, man! Okay, and the authority was given to it over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all who dwell on the earth, they'll worship it, this governmental system.

Everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb, who was slain, if anyone has an ear, let him hear.

And so, you know, the all -millennial way of looking at this makes you go, the beast's here, man!

Holy smokes, it's all around us! Right, that's the point. This thing was created to wage war against the saints now, because we're in this time period now.

Now, note then, what are we supposed to do? Well, if anyone's to be taken captive, to captivity he goes.

If anyone's to be slain with the sword, with a sworn sword, he must be slain. Good luck resisting the beast, who's like the beast, right?

Well, that means that could be martyred. Bingo, exactly. So, here then is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.

We are in the midst of major warfare, and it's on right now.

Forget about tomorrow, next week. Wake up! You're in the midst of it this minute.

So, then I saw another beast. So, now comes another beast. This one comes out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, and it spoke like a dragon.

This is false prophecy. This is a false prophet. This is false Christ. This is false religion. This is another weapon used, created by the devil, conjured up by the devil to wage war against the church.

So, we got oppressive, tyrannical governments that silence the gospel and forbid the gospel, along with being overrun by false prophets, false

Christ, false teachers. You get the idea here. So, this is the next beast. So, it exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and it makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed.

Isn't it fascinating that false religion usually will result in people embracing tyrannical governmental systems in the name of God, too?

So, it performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of the people, and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast, it deceives those who dwell on the earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded and by the sword and yet lived, and it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.

So, you'll note this false religion, you don't bow the knee to the beast, this false religion is going to make sure you get martyred.

Yeah, it has the appearance of a lamb but the voice of a dragon. So, also, it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or on the forehead.

Now, the question is, is this visible ink or not? I'll show you why there's a good case for it being invisible ink.

All right, to be marked on the hand of the forehead so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

So, this calls for wisdom. And by the way, this is one of the hardest passages in Scripture to get right.

So, this calls for wisdom, let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man and his number is 666.

And if you read the book of Revelation, you'll know that everything referring to God, every number refers to seven. Seven golden lampstands, the seven churches, seven, seven, seven.

God's number of the seven is perfection. And this number always comes up short. This is 666.

This is the unholy trinity. Now, so, now, what is this all referring to? And I would argue that the people right now already have the mark of the beast.

They already. This is not done in visible ink. This is something very different than that. How do

I know? Watch what comes next. So, then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with them 144 ,000.

This is a symbolic number of everybody who's a believer, who had his name and his father's name written on their foreheads.

And so, you'll note here, is this talking about how Christians for real have the literal name of God written in visible ink on their foreheads?

No. This is juxtaposed with unbelievers. So, the mark of the beast is a symbolic thing.

And by the way, you don't want the mark of the beast, ever, under any circumstance. You don't want this.

Okay? This is juxtaposed with believers who have the name of God written on their foreheads.

You see, this is a symbolic word picture. But when you take an amillennial view, you're going to recognize this.

We're not looking for something in the future. This is telling us about something that is a present reality, a very battle that we find ourselves in the midst of right now.

And the implications are huge. Stop playing pin the tail on the Antichrist.

Knock it off. He's gonna show up when he's gonna show up. The reality is this, is that the beast and the...both

the first beast and the second beast, they are here on planet earth in spades.

And they are waging war against the saints, and they are cleaning our clocks. And these beasts were created for the purpose of squelching the gospel and waging war against those who belong to Christ.

And now, once you recognize what these symbols represent, you recognize we are in dire danger.

So I say that because when somebody like Jacob Prash comes along, claims to be an eschatology expert, and then ends up taking his interpretation, which are his opinions, turns them into fundamental doctrines, and anathematizes anybody who disagrees with his narrative or his prashcatology,

I hate to say this, he's doing the work of the second beast, and he needs to repent.

And the fact is this, is that anybody who is loony tunes enough to believe that John MacArthur, myself,

Todd Friel, Phil Johnson, and others, and Justin Peters, that we are for real some embodiment of the ultimate plan of the

Antichrist so that you will worship the beast, that's nuts. That's just nuts.

There's nothing true about that. And this is the kind of stuff that divides real Christians, and divides

Christians in ways that are unbiblical, and causes people to get their eyes off of Christ, off of the gospel and the real war that we find ourselves in, into fighting each other, when that's not what we're supposed to be doing at all.

So hopefully you found this helpful. I know it was long, I know it's complicated, but hopefully you found that this is a good resource, and so now you know my particular take on the whole kerfuffle and controversy regarding John MacArthur and the mark of the beast.

Yeah, I think you get it. So anyway, if you found all this helpful, all the information on how you can share this video is down below in the description, and avoid

Jacob Prash and Lydia Chavez, Service Prashy, and the

Prashyans. They are a very, very dangerous, very dangerous cult -like group, if they're not already a cult.

And so until next time, may God restly bless you in the grace and mercy won by Jesus Christ, and His vicarious death on the cross, for all your sins.