About Those "Changes" in the 2025 ESV

Well, greetings, welcome to The Dividing Line. This will be, well, should be, if everything works out well, the last program in the regular studio for a few weeks. It's about a three week trip I'm going on.

Heading out a little bit faster than I normally do. In other words, see, I do all my own reservations and stuff. I sort of have to, I mean, I guess I could ask somebody to do all that stuff for me, but then I'm, I'd have to be constantly contacting them and stuff like that.

And I'm the one out there on the road. So, you know, if I pull in a place and I have reservations because I messed up, you know, so that has happened. But thankfully that was had a spot. But anyway, I head out on Tuesday and this is a pretty quick trip.

I'm going to be heading over to Arkansas. And I'm going to be speaking at a couple different places, primarily in the Conway area originally, going to be with Quattro Nelson at his church the first weekend.

And then at the seminary on Monday and Tuesday evenings. And I'm not sure which one of those two is the public one. I'd have to look. You can contact seminary to find out because I think the other one I'm just in one of the regular classes and the either Monday or Tuesday night.

I'll be doing a presentation in the lecture hall there on the 7th ecumenical council, but I'm going to have to run through all of them. Just, you know, most people know so little about ecumenical councils and stuff like that.

And with the current, you know, the flavor du jour for converts right now is Eastern Orthodoxy. And so 7th ecumenical council is absolutely vital there. There are a few things more definitional of Eastern Orthodoxy than the issue of icons.

Icon of Julia, iconography, the iconoclastic controversy, and everything that took place at the Nicaea II, the 7th.

Ecumenical council.

So we're going to do a little something that evening. Hopefully prepare folks along those lines. And then we head for Jonesboro and we have the two debates on Friday and Saturday nights at 12 5 in Jonesboro.

And then I don't think I'm preaching on Sunday. I haven't really talked too much about that and then I head back. So I've got to get out there pretty quick. So I have to, you know, I can lengthen my days.

As far as how long I want to drive each day. Have a great program. If anyone is doing this stuff, if anyone has any interest, if you're an RVer, RV life trip wizard. I'm sure someone's going to complain about the use of the term wizard.

But RV life trip wizard is just best thing I've found. I had started with a different one, but then I stumbled on this and it is the best way to. It does a great, great, great job. You tell it how long your RV is, how tall it is, and make sure you're not running into bridges along the way, stuff like that.

Important little things like that. And you tell about how much your gas mileage is and it's got a cool thing with the elevation. I just opened up the elevation for this trip and it gets up there, you know, first day up to up through Flagstaff.

That's a that's climb. No two ways about it. And then over into New Mexico across the I -40 and then day six. It's like sea level. Just so I'll get really good gas mileage on days, three, four and five when you're going downhill and then you and the other thing is I'm going East.

So I almost always have a tailwind going downhill. The first few days. I'm always like, wow, we're doing really good on the gas mileage then coming back going back uphill against the wind and the gas mileage really.

So if you'd like to help with gas mileage yesterday as we were signing off right as you're signing off rich sends me this hurry text message travel fund and I had already said see you next time on the dividing line and we had problems, you know, well rich had problems with the music yesterday.

I I hit start and play and I heard him playing the theme song remotely. Didn't you? I did hear you.

Oh, yes. Yes.

I heard it earlier when you yeah earlier. I heard the song. I heard the music playing and then he says, well, you're going to have to play it. And so I played it. And then the program starts and I hit play.

Nothing happens, you know, so look, we're getting older, you know, and so you just have to get used to, you know, things just being the way they are. That's why all the little boys and girls are saying you need to you need to retire.

You see idea. Let us take care of everything. Okay, anyway. No, it's on the counter. Okay, just making sure the wife picked up the had to buy a new toaster and the one I bought was like six months old and then you'd put it down and then it'll pop right back up and you put down pop right back up.

You turn it up more. It would last a little bit pop back. I was like toasters are not the most advanced pieces of equipment in the kitchen if you've ever noticed this one actually has an LED countdown as to how much longer you have before your toast is supposed to pop up.

So that's just another thing can break even faster. That's all there is to it. Anyways, so we do have a travel fund. And if you would like to if you've been noticing. Diesel fuel and regular gas. Both are not going down very fast.

We may be drilling drilling drilling but drilling drilling drilling takes time. And so the travel fund at amin .org helps us to keep the RV going. And as I mentioned, I think on the program the last visit to our repair facility was touching but necessary, you know slide outs.

For example, they have to work have to work right and we haven't even put the slide out yet. We will find out on Saturday. I'm assuming Rich is going to be there. We're both going to sort of be like. Okay, here we go.

You touch it. I'm not going to touch it.

You touch it, you break it. It's like, okay, here we go. I hope it works. So yeah, I'm a little nervous about it. But you know, it's a good place.

They do.

They do good work. And so let's just hope everything works because we don't have time to be running it back before Tuesday. That ain't going to happen. So we'll see. Anyway, so that's all to say road trip dividing lines coming up and road trip dividing lines.

What do you need? You need the ANO app. You need the app to tell you when the program is going to be or if it's going to be at all because honestly, I can pull into a park. I can get stuck in a space only space they have left.

The park internet is worthless. There's no meaningful cell sites nearby. And if I try to put the Starlink out, I'm under a canopy of trees and can't find, can't find, you know, so okay, we'll have to do it next time.

It's just just how it works. There's no way the way around it. So anyway, so with all of that one thing that I completely forgot.

Hmm.

Carla is okay. If I've joined but I'm not verified, am I actually joined? Do you have any idea what Carla's Carla Rolfe is asking about? Because I told her that live live the dividing line is live right now.

Join us. And she says if I've joined but I'm not verified, am I actually joined? I'm not really. I rarely know what Carla's actually. I rarely knew back when she was younger exactly what she was talking about.

And now that she's up in our neck of the woods age-wise, you know, it could just be things are falling apart for her.

So so so my thinking there is that if she's not verified on.

X, yes.

Okay, she can't participate in the chat on X because that's verified people only. Oh, that's a question. You can still view the show and hear the show by. She can't and.

You can't grant her great.

There are no dispensations.

No dispensations dispensationalism for Carla, but she she is an American living in Canada. So that makes it even worse.

But yeah, somebody just said that the blue check apparently takes three to four days to process too. So, you know, Elon's distracted these days.

He's a little slow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, discovering the entire administrative state has been sucking us dry and sending our money to George Soros and and Hamas and the level of corruption beyond.

I think the bigger the bigger pot has been where they work at halfway around the world and then suddenly it comes right back into their own pockets.

Yeah, how many of these folks end up leaving Congress as multi-millionaires? How do they do that?

They don't make that much money. I remember the first time that I learned the word graft was when I was a teenager. And you need to not be drinking when I say this. I learned the word graft from Mad Magazine had had English.

Developed that far.

Yes.

You're so much older than I am so I can say that.

I did not know what the word graft meant and Mad Magazine taught me what to do.

I'm glad they eventually got Mad Magazine up to Prescott.

Hey, what else was there to do?

Not much. That's that's awful sure you could drive down the hill to Phoenix once in a while. But anyhow, so I had this on the list. For yesterday, but I didn't get to it because we did all sorts of other things.

But Crossway came out with the ESV many years ago. And Lockman probably could have killed the ESV. If they had known how to market the NASB because they had a big jump. They were they were way ahead. But they didn't and ESV.

Had an incredible people in charge of their marketing. I mean, they were they were on Bible College campuses handing out free copies and they built that brand so fast. It was truly one of the success stories of the biblical translation realm.

I guess you might say.

And so it's established itself and it eclipsed the NASB as far as sales and stuff like that. And and but what people don't understand is that in the modern period Bible translations Bible translation committees.

Don't just disband and go home after the first edition comes out. You can understand logically why the committee would stay in existence because once your translation starts getting used then it starts getting reviewed and you start getting pushback.

There's always going to be a controversial text. And if you've rendered something in a controversial fashion, you know, someone might point something out you might go. Yeah, you know what that's actually a valid criticism.

What do we do now? What kind of editing would be would be possible and you know, you know, so three four years down the road you put out a new edition and you you make some changes not massive wholesale changes, but you know, look at the NASB.

My first NASB was a 1977. And then so it was 18 years later 1995 that the 95 revision came out and then there was a 2020 so, you know about quarter century or so there are there might be major revisions of a particular translation and you might go.

Why would they do that? Well, because unlike what most people think for example about the King James translators Bible translation committees do not claim to be inspired and they do not claim to have produced the best translations ever been produced by mankind and will never be eclipsed and we made no mistakes and we cannot be convinced that there's a better way to render this text or that text.

So it's one thing to like every 25 years have somewhat of a update of things. It's another thing to do it every five years or so that seems like a little bit of a short period of time to collect all that type of stuff together.

So I forget what year it was but the ESV had put out a announcement that the current form the ESV couple years ago. That was going to be it the translation committee was disbanding wasn't going to get back together again.

And that's it. And there was such a hue and cry of people going. Well, what do you mean? And there was a fair amount of pushback, you know, so this is this is it. This is the best that can be done that they backtracked and they said, oh, well actually hold on.

Okay. No, we're not going to do that. And so last week at some point they put out 18 pages and these are these are not densely filled pages. So a very relatively small number of changes. And this is from the 2016 to 2025.

So nine year gap here. And the vast majority of them are really really really minor. I mean you you do not have to go running out and buy a brand new ESV because oh, I want to be up to date. Let me give an example.

Okay, Malachi 112. But you profane it when you say that the Lord's table is polluted and its fruit that is its food may be despised. There is a comma now after the word food. So someone had sort of missed an Oxford comma or something and it's fruit that is its food comma may be despised it that comma wasn't there.

Now, how many of you would have caught that a couple of you retired English teachers something like that, you know, might have might have thrown a fit about that, but really, Okay, and a lot of the other ones are addition of translational footnotes.

So and the angel Zechariah 6 5 and the angel answered and said to me, these are going out to the four winds of heaven after presenting themselves before the Lord of all the earth and in the 2025 there is a textual note inserted after the four winds of heaven and the textual note is or these are the four winds of heaven going out.

Okay, not exactly big stuff. Okay, but they're being honest that you know, this is these are these are notes you get into the New Testament. And again, Matthew 10 29 are not two sparrows sold for a penny and not one of them will fall the ground apart from your father.

Well, there is a text note attached to the word penny, which I really feel a feel badly for the ESV. Because there are no pennies. Some of you may not be aware of this and some of you may have been so overwhelmed with the speed at which the Trump administration hit the ground absolutely running and raising everything in front of it, but they're getting rid of the penny.

I didn't realize that it costs like three cents to make a penny, which is stupid. It really is. So get all your pennies out and either get rid of them quick or just melt them down and use them for a statute or something.

Why not? I mean, yes, I know you want to comment on what are we going.

To do now with the saying a penny for your thoughts.

It really honestly, if it's not $10 for your thoughts, it wasn't a thought worth having when you think about because I I went through KFC today. There's a KFC on the way out to the storage place place.

We have the rig and I don't know. I've just I stopped there once a while from going out and I need to grab lunches before I'm going to do something. And I said that I say this to all these young kids at the drive-thru window.

I'm handing them my card and it's like 13 bucks and I go. I'm old enough to remember when this is $3 and you can tell I ain't the only one saying that to them. I'm going through the drive-thru at all.

So yeah, I do know what they're all thinking. Okay, Boomer.

Oh, yeah.

Yep, they probably are. They probably are. That's there's no two ways about it. So anyway, the text note for penny used to say Greek a sorry on Roman copper coin Latin quadrants worth about 1 16th of a denarius, which was a day's wage for a laborer.

And now it says Greek a sorry on Roman copper coin worth about 1 16th of a denarius, which was a day's wage for labor. So they took the Latin out. Well, I'm never going to use the ESV again now that there's not the Latin in a single footnote, you know.

I'm not sure why they did that but but they did so almost all of these as I'm looking at it here are about text notes. You know, we've changed this tech note text note. We added this text note. Well, this is interesting in Matthew 18 22.

Jesus said to him.

I do not say to you seven times but 77 times and now they've inserted a text note or 70 times 7. Now that's important because that's the difference between forgiving somebody 490 times or only 77 times.

And believe you me having worked with rich all these years. There's a bunch of stuff. We're right between 77 and 490. And so what am I going to do now? Thanks the ESV text note. I mean, wow, that's that's huge.

Yes. So there's a lot of that stuff that again.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yes, sir. You've got your hand on the button.

No, no.

Okay.

So from this side of the fence, it's it's well beyond already.

Past the 490.

Okay, I see.

Yeah.

Okay.

But then here's another massive change. So this is a text change. So here's and you see part I had already had this on the list.

To do.

But who was it that started this? Yeah, so Dr. Riddle from IRBS our our friendly neighborhood TR only guy. He and I had gone back and forth just a couple times yesterday or day first day. On John 118 and but I'm going to say us versus Mike when I we awesome.

And after about one or two, it was just like, you know what? There's there's no reason to do this. There's no reason to continue this because you start with the TR. You are a TR presuppositional is. And it doesn't, you know, he was saying, well, what did Athanasius say?

It doesn't matter what Athanasius said not to Jeffrey Riddle. That's what's just so disingenuous about the TR only position just come out and straight up say we assign the TR final authority. We don't care about manuscripts.

You don't care about history. I don't care about early church fathers. We don't care about anything. We don't care about how the TR came into existence. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what manuscripts are asked was used.

All that stuff is a distraction. It's irrelevant. The TR is the final authority. That's it. That's all we've got to offer you. We're not going to argue with you about it. We just say that's it. That's it because that's really what it is.

You know, it may take you two or three hours arguing with somebody before you finally figure this out, but it would you know, he's asking me what did Athanasius read and I'm like it doesn't matter. I can show you early church fathers say God you don't care and if Athanasius had said God you wouldn't care because it's not what's in the TR.

So it doesn't matter. It's irrelevant.

So I don't know if that's how I end up, you know, the algorithm saw us talking and so it threw it. I don't know. But he put together a whole bunch of ESV memes. So it's got a picture of Fauci and it says trust the science.

It's time for your ninth ESV booster. Okay, and well, why doesn't why didn't it? So yeah, that's got a picture of an ant from the Lord of the Rings movies ESV being ditched for NKJV en masse. The filth of crossway is washing away.

Then crossway CEO.

Oh, no.

Now every ESV owner is going to have to buy the 2025 update and it's somebody it's that it's Woody Harrelson wiping his eyes with money. And then new from crossway premium pencil edition ESV ESV Bible featuring erasable text so you can change it every few years.

So just a bunch of this kind of stuff. Yeah, a picture of Bernie Sanders crossway with dollar signs crossway ESV 2025. I am once again asking for your financial support, you know, this this kind of thing.

So it's all ha ha ha ha. Of course. It's stupid, but it's all ha ha ha stuff, you know, and there was even a guy. Who responded to it and said this is why I've gone exclusively to the KJV. I'm not adverse to other people using other versions, but all these changes don't sit right with me.

And I responded and has so far gotten no response to him from him at least that I've seen. It's possible. There's something that isn't pulled up. But so I asked him I said which KJV 1611 1769 Blaney Oxford Cambridge because there's a history here and a lot of people, you know, don't understand the history and so here's here's a textual change.

In the ESV Matthew 1528 then GS answered her. Now, I'm going to you know, rich answers the phones around here. In fact, before the program started, he was talking to somebody about slavery and stuff like that.

And that's why he has to listen to the program is so he can then talk to people on the phone and give them all the stuff that he's learned over the years listening. I mean, have we counted the dividing lines recently?

We really need to count the dividing lines. No, a lot is not enough that Doge is going to ask us exactly how many they need to they want an actual number. We can't do what the Democrats do and go a lot.

So no, we really need to look at look at the numbers and probably on sermon audio. Maybe be the one to pull that up on and see how many because we were we were in the middle 2000s while back. So I'm wondering if we're getting close to the 3k number because we need to have a party or have a cake have some Maple Frosted Donuts, which I really really like especially when traveling.

So anyway, since you have this high level of training for all these years, I'm going to read you the 2016 the 2025. Okay, and I want you to comment on the difference. So you ready up Rich said he's got to go do something got to go floss the cat or something like that.

Okay. So here's the 2016 version. Then Jesus answered her a woman great is your faith be it done for you as you desire and her daughter was healed instantly 2025 and Jesus answered her a woman great is your faith.

Let it be done for you as you desire and her daughter was healed instantly. So the only difference between the two is be it done versus let it be done. That's it. That's it. That's that's the change and let it be said let it be done to.

Be done.

Let it be done. There you go. So I mean, that's the 25 that's the 2025 version. So we'll call that the George Bono change in Matthew 2130 and he went to the other son and said the same and he answered I go sir, but did not go 2025 and he went to the other son and said the same and he answered I will sir, but did not go.

All right, that's there's at least a little bit of meaning there. I go sir versus I will sir and it does make me because I'm sitting here going. All right. I know a little something about these things and you know over the past nine years.

What's been going on is people will write letters to crossway and articles will appear that are sent to crossway and eventually the translation committee gets together and works through all this stuff and the stuff that seems to have some credibility gets put on the agenda.

And so everybody sits around and the Old Testament guys do their stuff and the New Testament guys do their stuff and you know, basically hey stop sending me notifications on my phone 2 ,694 sermons on my watch on my phone 2 ,694 sermons on sermon audio.

Well, I might we might get to 3 ,000, you know 2 ,694. Oh, all right. I thought we were a little little higher than that, but we're not no sermons that would include just the dividing line. Or is that sermons?

I've preached at other churches. That's just dividing line. Yeah, I think if you put in the sermons debates.

There are a few things in there that that are beyond the dividing line. Yeah, especially the early stuff. Oh, yeah, there's some seminars in there. So yeah, but pretty much I'll see if I can't find it get to sort.

Yeah, that would be interesting.

That would be really interesting.

Yeah.

Okay. So anyway, I'm back to the changes here. Entire books go by without any changes at all. And then we come to the one that probably triggered all the stuff with riddle. And oh wow, John 753. Okay, you want you want big changes?

They moved the double brackets that mark 753 through 811. They moved it from after the verse number to before the verse. That's that's it so much for the ESV.

Yeah.

Okay. So this is a big one. Okay, this is they must have been sitting around go back to the the translation committee here. And I, you know, there have been lots of papers written recently. There's a whole movement of people who are really big into the defense of the phrase monogamous.

We asked the only begotten son. And so John 118 is a textual variant that we've discussed many times on the program. Over the years. They're actually there's not just two variant readings of John 118 because you can have ha monogamous.

They ask you to have monogamous. They ask monogamous we ask and then you inevitably get your later manuscripts that try to fix what they think is an error and they end up with a unique reading or things like that.

And it's not my intention to go back over that material right.

Now.

But only to note that really the most substantive stuff at least far as New Testament theology is concerns right here in the quote-unquote changes. So John 118 in the 2016 ESV says no one has ever seen God the only God footnote 1 who is at the father's side footnote 2.

He has made him known. But note one reads or the only one who is God some manuscripts the only son and then number two Greek in the bosom of the father's who is at the father's side is in the bosom of the father which is literally what it reads.

That's true. Now the 2025 no one has ever seen God God the only son who it who footnote 1 is at the father's side footnote 2 he has made him known so the changes the only God to God the only son the new footnote 1 says seen God the only God who some manuscripts seen God the only son who see verse 14.

And then the footnote to Greek in the bosom the father stays the same now. I can't even make heads or tails out of that footnote. Okay, that the original footnote was significantly clearer. God now the ESV.

Is translating the Nessie Holland 28th edition right here. And so they're translating the phrase monogamous they ask because they're using the term God. As God the only son so. They don't before they had the only God so that monogamous.

Is being rendered as only so my gut feeling is that the stuff that came out. See the 26th if the ESV came out in 2016. The whole. ESF stuff. Blew up that summer. And there are a number of papers and things written over the next couple of years, especially on the meaning of monogamous and so probably one of the some of the more strident.

Criticisms of the ESV was if you have the only God you are. Limiting the meaning of monogamous in a particular fashion. That's probably what the criticism was and so they chose God the only son. To try to while maintaining fidelity to the reading they ask which is the reading of the earliest.

All of the earliest manuscripts. Read they are so p66 p75 Sinaiticus and Vaticanus. Now Alexander just reads son. It's Proto Byzantine in the Gospels. And you can again without going in the depth on this when you look at.

The citations really church fathers. The question becomes how early what's the earliest manuscripts we have of those early church fathers are they being what if what if we have a. This happens a couple times what if we have a book by an early church writer and the only way we know of a particular text where this versus cited is that book is cited by somebody else, but we don't have the original book anymore.

So let's say just use Tertullian as an early writer Tertullian wrote something. But somebody else in quotes Tertullian what Tertullian originally wrote is gone. That hasn't that hasn't survived that happens a lot in history.

But somebody else cites him as having said that okay, so it's now secondhand. And what's the earliest manuscripts we have of the second hand how far away from the original are you going here? That's why a manuscript itself a physical it exists in time manuscript has more value to the text.

The others should be noted the others can create a collective case. But you know, I can I can look at this and I can look at these notes about the page. And yes, I know when I'm looking at these notes, you know, I just happen to open up here and I see 1739 1881.

Minuscule text that are cited over and over and over again because both of them clearly were copies of much much much earlier texts there around 9th 10th 11th centuries around there. And you can you can look at all that.

You have that kind of data, but if I'm seeing and this is an excellent text if I had the UBS over here. There's many more citations early church fathers. What you don't have and what very few people have.

Is access to the earliest? What are the earliest manuscripts we have of these words? We spent a lot of time trying to determine the dating of actual New Testament manuscripts. But when it comes to the patristic sources whole lot less information available whole lot less information at that particular point in time.

So the ESV translation committee is staying with this. They're staying with the reading. Monogamous chaos or hominogamous chaos. I'm not sure that the article could enter into that particular debate between the two renderings.

Yeah, I could. But the same with chaos, but they're trying to. Possibly respond to the monogamous. Movement that has taken place since 2016 and hence now have God the only son. But the text note or seeing God the only God who I assume what they're saying is or we could understand this as seeing God the only God who is at the father's side.

I think and then has a semicolon some manuscripts seen God. The only son who but see that doesn't really explain anything either because that could just be monogamous. They're translating monogamous is the only son but the other reading the other manuscripts is monogamous chaos.

The sun is there. So I'm not sure what's in verse the first 14 footnote that they're referring to but I can't see how this text note is going to be overly helpful or over explanatory of anything. To be perfectly honest with you, but that's why the changes and it's it's important and again, I'm just looking through here.

First Corinthians 912 they changed where the where they break the paragraph. Hopefully everybody already knew. That sentence breaks paragraph breaks are all editorial. They aren't in the original anywhere.

So I appreciate being told but still we have a footnote insertion of Greek the first fruits. In first Corinthians 1615 the household of Stephanos were the first converts in Achaia and they've added a text note next to convert says Greek the first fruits.

Okay, you know.

Second Corinthians 410 may also has been changed to also may. Again, a lot of this stuff just doesn't have much of an impact. This is interesting. Verse 10 of Ephesians 1 as a plan for the fullness of time to unite all things in him things in heaven and things on earth.

Now 2025 as a plan for the fullness of time to unite all things in Christ things in heaven and things on earth in him. Okay. Some of that just may be due to the fact that. Alto is used of Christ in first Corinthians and in Ephesians 1.

And every translation committee is one of the things they talk about is when the Greek sentence goes on and on and on and on like Ephesians 1 is When do you how far down the road will we go? Assuming that the reader is going to keep the proper nouns in view.

And not get confused. So the NIV had a very short distance. That's why in John chapter 12 verse 41 these things he spoke about. These things he spoke about him because he had seen his glory. They put the word Jesus there.

They take out the pronoun and actually put the proper noun Jesus in the NIV.

Why?

Because there had been too many verses since Jesus name had been used. That their decision was. Repeat the proper noun because we can't assume that someone's going to follow the pronouns that far down the road.

Or when there's a possibility because of a citation or something like that. That there would be a confusion. And as I said that sort of ruins the use of the NIV. When talking to Jehovah's Witnesses about John 12 41 and the identification of Jesus is Jehovah Yahweh.

So you have to keep that kind of thing in mind. Maybe that's what was going on here. I don't know. Was there something you were going to?