The Supreme Court & Emotionally-Laden Pastors

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I would say if the authorities didn't want us involved in the public square, they ought not to have crucified

00:09

Jesus in the public square. This humanistic principle, it's the same idea, same answer.

00:15

I would say, what's the problem with stardust bumping into stardust? In the cosmic picture? One million little human beings every year.

00:25

Alright Jeff, stop it. Continue.

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I'm sorry my friends, but I am tired of seeing Jesus presented as a weak beggar.

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He is a powerful savior and the gospel is not a suggestion, it is a command.

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Reverend Moeller, don't you sympathize with that? I sympathize with every single human heart wishing to know the one true and living

01:02

God, but I believe there's only one way that that can happen through Jesus Christ, and the gospel is about repenting of sin, not celebrating it.

01:09

An amazing adventure.

01:15

We will explore the spiritual abyss. You have not experienced this before.

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To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and made us a kingdom, priest to his

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God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

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Revelation chapter 1, y 'all. Welcome back to another episode of Apologia Radio. You can get more at ApologiaStudios .com.

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So I'm Jeff. They call me the Ninja. That's Luke the Bear. What up? That's Joy the Girl. Hello. Welcome, welcome, welcome, everybody.

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So the thing is, as we were talking before the show started here, a good show planned for you guys today. We were talking about the Supreme Court, what's going on with that.

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We were just there in D .C. Pastor Luke was with the team in Louisiana at the end of that week.

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That was last week, right? Yeah. Okay, it was last week. So we'll update you on that. We have our attorney, our constitutional attorney, buddy and brother in Christ, Bradley Pierce, hanging on the line.

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And we're also going to review something that happened in Texas with the resolution for the abolition of abortion in Texas.

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Listen, I'm tripping over my words because we were just talking about the fact that I was up all night long with an amazing allergy fit.

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It was epic, actually. I went to bed fine, and then nose was draining a little bit, and woke up, and it was amazing.

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At one point I was just sneezing nonstop for like three minutes to the point where in my head I was like, this doesn't seem right.

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It's not stopping. Someone told me in grade school, like young grade school one time, that if you sneeze seven times in a row, you'll die.

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Have you ever tried it? It's not true. Apparently. It's not true. It's not true because I did it like 70 times seven times.

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Do you sneeze so hard that your whole body hurts? It's a perfect amount of sneezes. Yeah, that's what I was doing last night. You're like every muscle in your body.

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It was like, what's his rip? When he did the thing, it was like. That's how a pastor sneezes every single time.

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Dan Cook is who you're talking about. I screamed. God bless you. I could have sworn I was going to wake my wife up.

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I was like, I know she's just going to be so upset because I'm keeping her up. And I was trying to leave the room and go on the other side of the house, and it was bad.

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And so then I finally, like at 3 a .m., was able to get to sleep. Wake up like an hour later because August, who sleeps in bed with us,

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I'm like falling off the bed, and he's like right up against my body. I'm like, what's going on? So I'm like, okay, Augustine, move over.

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So I start to push him, and I realize the entire bed is soaking wet, and he's soaking wet. Like his shirt's wet.

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Everything's wet because we switched from one brand of diapers that actually is super awesome, super comfortable, very comfortable, and he didn't do it.

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Super comfortable, and I was going to be honest. You changed it up. I was waiting for the point. I was setting you up.

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I threw it out there. Did you try them on? There you go.

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We tried to recreate it. We did. Because Isaac said, you're having the wrong place for the discussion.

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Do it on the show. So we switched from the Millie Moon diapers. They're the best. When you think about cost and how long they can wear them for and how dry they keep the kids.

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Super absorbent. Yeah, they're so soft. Millie Moon, we'll take your check. Yeah, and Millie Moon, thank you.

05:39

We'll take the sponsorship. So then we just grabbed some Huggies, and it was like rough paper, and that's what we put them in last night, and it turns out they're not very absorbent, and so he peed all over the bed.

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So now it's four in the morning. I'm going to get a towel. I'm changing his diaper. Katie wakes up. He's like, what happened? I'm like, well, it came through his diaper, and so I'm trying to get the bed dried off and him dried off, and so that was where I was at last night, and so just so everybody knows, if my brain is not making proper connections today,

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I'm going to hand it over to you guys. I wonder why you smell like urine today. Yeah. I just don't do anything about it.

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I'm going to roll with this. Here you go, Isaac. Oh, okay.

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Wherever you're at. Well, you know, the funny thing is being a parent.

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Okay, here's the thing. I'm up all night. Okay, for those of you who are single, you won't understand this. You're like, ew. But for parents,

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Candy and I, our response to a bed soaked in pee at four in the morning wasn't,

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I guess we got to get up and change beds or change the stuff and clean it off. No, it was like, let's just put a towel over it.

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Yeah, exactly right. And we'll just roll around this. We'll take care of it tomorrow. We'll roll around this year until the morning, and it's just what you do.

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Your priorities change. Sleep is more important to me right now than not being covered in pee.

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But you know what? If you just buy Millie Moon, you won't be covered in pee.

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The best thing about those two in Target, you just like when we need them, I just will order on the app, and then I'll just drive up.

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I'm here, and they bring them. I don't have to go in the stupid store and get COVID. I don't want to buy any other diapers. I don't want to buy any other diapers except for those, because I've never woken up and pee with Millie Moon.

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Millie Moon, I'm telling you, you can be doing good things. They really are the cheapest, too. They're cheaper.

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It doesn't make sense. It says like luxury diapers or something. But you're right.

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We did the cost analysis, too. We're like, but if you put these Huggies on, in an hour, you're changing it again.

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And he does that, too. He had them on, and it was like an hour later, he peed like one time, and he was like, mama, mama, pee -pee, because he could feel it, and he wasn't comfortable.

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So Millie Moon, you keep it on for like five days. Seriously. Seriously. All right.

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We need to get to the show today. I think our guest knows a little bit about babies and wet diapers. Speaking of cute babies and babies things and all the wonderful things that go along with having little human beings, we were in Washington, D .C.

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last week with the team to get content for you all and to do some important things and be on the ground there where the

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Supreme Court is hearing a case related to something in Mississippi. It's a 15 -week abortion ban.

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But some of the circumstances in the case relate to the issue of Roe v. Wade. And so we were in D .C.

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on the ground. The event took place last Wednesday where everybody was there. Just to give you sort of a setup as Bradley is going to introduce us and talk to us about things,

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I'm going to give you a setup. Being there, lots of people there. If you were facing the

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Supreme Court, to the left side was all the pro -choicers. The pro -aborts were over here. And to the right side were all the pro -lifers and the abolitionists.

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I am making a distinction between those groups. But they were a lot of people there, a lot of important people there. Here's the hard part of it.

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They were both talking at the same time. So on the one side, they were literally standing next to each other in crowds.

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There was a divide there, but they were right there. On the pro -life side, you had a microphone and amplification, and they had all their speakers talking.

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But right next to them, 15 feet away, 20 feet away it seems, was the pro -choicers.

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You had legislators going up there. Was that a bomb? Yeah, seriously. Legislators.

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You had the representatives and the leadership of the pro -choice community. They were all there as well.

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So they were talking at the same time. You couldn't make rhyme or reason many times as to what was actually being said because it was just talking over each other.

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People were shouting and yelling. It was pretty chaotic. But I got to hear a lot of what the pro -choicers were saying.

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We're going to talk about that. But I wanted to bring Bradley on because this case is an important case for us.

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One of the reasons why is because through End Abortion Now, Action for Life, and other organizations, we were able to actually get

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Bradley Pierce to write an amicus brief in this case that essentially argued for, of course, the repenting of Roe, turning away from Roe, the undoing of Roe, and ultimately the upholding and the preservation of all human life.

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So we are having on right now Bradley Pierce Esquire. Bradley, welcome on, brother.

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Thanks for having me. Good to be with you. Absolutely. Thanks for hanging out with us too as we talked about Silly Baby Things. Well, I want to know what brand diapers

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Bradley uses for his 32 children. Yeah, you have like 57 children where you at now? Give or take, yeah.

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I think we're expecting number 10 early next year. Praise the Lord. I've never heard of Millie Moon before.

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They're only a target. Good stuff. Only a target, yes. Especially when you said you could just leave them on for several days.

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Several days. Days. You know, and if you ever have a bad moment as an adult, nobody needs to know you have a pair on because you know you're having a bad day.

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Do they make those in the pen, like adult diapers? I'll tell you what, if I turn 75 and I start having problems,

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Millie Moon all the way, baby, because I already know they're trustworthy, reliable, and comfortable. Petition them for a larger size.

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A size 20. Bradley Pierce Esquire.

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All right, so you filed an amicus brief. Which is no small task.

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It's no small task in this case. And so let's do this for listeners who have no idea what that is.

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They haven't seen the video we put out with you in it, and they don't know what's going on. Tell us about the case and tell us about the amicus brief that you filed.

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Sure. So this case is coming out of Mississippi. Mississippi in 2018 passed a 15 -week ban.

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So a lot of states have a ban on abortions after 20 weeks, with some exceptions. So Mississippi passed a 15 -week ban, just kind of moving the line up a few weeks.

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And so that went to the Fifth Circuit, which is the most conservative federal appellate circuit in the country.

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They ultimately upheld it, because they said under Roe versus Wade and Planned Parenthood versus Casey, which is a 1992 case that kind of upheld

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Roe. Under those two decisions, any kind of a ban before viability is inherently unconstitutional, according to the

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Supreme Court, according to those cases. So that's what the Fifth Circuit said. So that then got appealed up to the

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Supreme Court. Supreme Court, they can decide. They actually don't have to hear most cases. They get to decide, do we want to hear this case or do we not?

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And there's been lots of pro -life bills that have gone up to them that they've said, you know, no thanks, we're not interested. But this one, for whatever reason we can talk about, they said, you know what, we do want to hear that case.

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And so they said that in late May, and they gave the

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Mississippi until late July to file their briefs, arguing why, in this case,

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Mississippi argued, among other things, that they should overturn Roe versus Wade and Planned Parenthood versus Casey.

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And a few days after that was the deadline to submit an amicus brief for people who either were on Mississippi's side or were on neither side.

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So that's what we did. I'm admitted to the bar of the United States Supreme Court. And so I kind of was able to be the attorney, but supported by 21 organizations and 20 state legislators signing on to the brief.

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We all together filed a brief with the U .S. Supreme Court, arguing several different things.

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Of course, arguing that they should overturn Roe, that they should do it because it's their duty before God, it's their duty under the

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Constitution, and arguing that they should go even further. The Constitution, as we'll talk about in a minute, it's not neutral about abortion.

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The Constitution says the states may not deny equal protection to all persons within their jurisdiction, equal protection of the laws.

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So the Constitution requires states to provide equal protection, which we're arguing that means, since a fetus is a person, that means that you need to protect them by the laws of your state.

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That applies to every state in the country. We not only argued that, though, but we also informed the court and let them know that, hey, we believe it is that you do need to overturn

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Roe v. Wade, but even if you don't, we believe that it's the duty of states, governors, legislatures, for them to abolish abortion, regardless of what you do in this case.

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So that's what we were able to argue in our brief that we submitted to the court. Praise God. This is really important for our listeners.

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If you're just getting into this discussion, it's important because people even ask the question. I got a few messages that day that we were there asking the question,

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Jeff, why are you bothering with this? I thought we just need to ignore Roe. And I think we can address that with this.

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We need to just ignore Roe v. Wade at the state level. Our constitutional republic was set up in such a way that it is the

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Congress that creates law in our nation. It is not the Supreme Court. They are not the supreme being. They're not the ultimate authority.

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You have examples in history where states did the right thing and rejected fallacious and erroneous decisions of the

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Supreme Court, say, related to the issue of slavery even. So in the past, it has been part and parcel to the worldview that was the foundation of this nation, that the

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Supreme Court is supposed to make decisions, judicial decisions that are in accordance with the Constitution and essentially

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Lex Rex, the law of the land. And when the Supreme Court denies the fundamental aspects of the

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Constitution or the law of the land, it is the duty of the states to resist them because they are not the ultimate authority.

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And that gets to the point that Bradley did something in this amicus brief where when you cite the table of authorities, he cited the

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Holy Bible, the Word of God. And so for Bradley Pierce, a Christian attorney, he is pointing to essentially what was the foundation of this nation to begin with, but he's pointing to that as the ultimate authority.

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Now all that to say, our constitutional republic does not allow for the Supreme Court to essentially legislate from the bench and there's not supposed to be judicial supremacy and not supposed to have the situation where the

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Supreme Court acts like the supreme being. So the states need to ignore Roe, period, today, right now.

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Ignore Roe. Ignore it, ignore it, ignore it. Establish justice for children today in your state.

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However, we have to be able to also think in categories as Christians. There's a category of equal protection and abolition and criminalization that needs to take place immediately in the states right now.

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Ignore Roe. Ignore Roe. However, there's a category of the Supreme Court's duty and role before God and before country, okay?

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Premierly before God, the Supreme Court has a duty to obey God. So what Bradley Pierce argued was essentially that the

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Supreme Court needs to obey Jesus Christ and they need to come back to what the Constitution says about protecting life and liberty, all that stuff.

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But the category of, does the Supreme Court need to repent and do they need to essentially undo

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Roe versus Wade? In that category, every Christian should be saying, yes. In that category, the

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Supreme Court has the duty to overturn that ruling. That shouldn't be controversial.

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Unfortunately, it is among some people. They think you don't need to work in any other area and sort of be a prophetic voice there.

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You just need to focus on the one thing, equal protection. That's it, all said and done. Well, I think what

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Bradley Pierce did was a very good thing, bringing the Christian witness, the Word of God, into this case in the amicus brief, doing it respectfully, doing it prophetically, doing it boldly and without compromise, and in that category, informing the court of what their duty is before God and before this country.

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And so that's why we were there. We were there because we helped to get this amicus brief in, and we were there because the

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Supreme Court does have a duty before God. These judges will answer before Jesus Christ, before His throne, for the decision that they make here.

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And so we do want to see Roe versus Wade overturned, but we could care less, ultimately, if it is in terms of our pursuit of justice.

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At the state level, immediate abolition, immediate criminalization. Right now, equal protection.

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That's what we're working for. Ignore Roe versus Wade. However, we still want Roe versus Wade overturned.

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So you see the different categories are working in there. Right. Well, I mean, exactly right.

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That's what the Supreme Court needs to do. And again, regardless of whether the Supreme Court overturns

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Roe versus Wade, we're still going to have to pass bills of abolition in every state. So that's why

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I hope that if there's anybody listening to this thinking like, oh, well, let's just wait and see what the Supreme Court does.

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Absolutely not. That's not the right thing to do. In fact, if you want the Supreme Court to overturn Roe versus Wade, what you should do is be pushing bills of abolition in your state right now because the

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Supreme Court is looking at that. And the more states that are doing that, I think the more likely they are to overturn it themselves.

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Yeah. No, very good point. If you guys didn't catch that, it is a very, very important point to consider and to have as a foundation of your fight here.

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Even if Roe versus Wade is overturned tonight, tomorrow we're going to have a big fight ahead of us in terms of trying to end abortion in the states where the pro -life industry has put in bills that legalize abortion at the state level.

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Yes, the pro -life industry has created legislation that actually legalizes abortion at the state level.

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So overturn Roe, yes, yes, yes, but you're still going to have to abolish abortion at the state level anyways.

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Equal protection of the states is what we have to be working for. But I wanted to highlight something because we know this.

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Luke, Joy, we've talked about this. Bradley, we talk about this. It's in our circle. We've said it a lot. But I'm not sure everyone has heard this and you need to.

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And that is this fact. The pro -life industry has fought against Roe versus Wade for decades now with the assumption that Roe versus Wade is law and that it's done something to essentially legalize abortion federally or at the state level.

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Either way. That's how they fight it. And so their big perspective is if we could just get the right judges on the court and overturn

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Roe versus Wade, this is all over with. That's kind of how they pursue it. Bradley Pierce has an amazing lecture on this point that we've got to find a way to get on our channel so everyone can benefit from it.

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Bradley, we've got to fly you out here so you can redo it. We need to make it happen because he has an amazing lecture on why that is a fallacious form of reasoning.

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It hasn't worked in history. It will not ultimately work in the future. So waiting for the Supreme Court to overturn

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Roe versus Wade is a silly way to approach this. But the pro -life industry has pretended that Roe versus Wade is the main obstacle.

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We've just got to overturn Roe versus Wade because that's like the law of the land. They fought that way. Interestingly, that's not in accordance with the

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Constitution itself. That's not how law is made in this land. And the second thing is, is the left, the pro -aborts, the pro -choicers, they understand and say publicly now that they know

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Roe versus Wade is not the law of the land. Two points. One, during the town hall when

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Biden was trying to become president, and he was asked the question like, well, what if Roe versus Wade is overturned?

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He said that his goal was to give Roe versus Wade the force of law in our country, to make it legislation. So there's an admission that it's not the law of the land, and he has to make it the law of the land.

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When Texas did their heartbeat bill very recently, that's exactly what the

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White House press secretary, Psaki, said when she was asked about the bill in Texas. She says, well, just like he said in his campaign, we need to make

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Roe versus Wade the law of the land. We need to get the force of legislation because they know it's not the law. Why are the pro -choicers, why are the pro -lifers acting like it's law when the leftists are saying, and the pro -aborts are saying, it's not the law of the land.

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We've got to make it the law of the land. I heard that on the ground last week on Wednesday.

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I'm standing there in the crowd where the pro -aborts are. The woman is yelling and railing. I can't tell you how many

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F -bombs came from that microphone. It was epic. She's a nasty woman. Well, the whole thing was nasty.

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It was foul. I will say the contrast between the two crowds was stark. Let me just say it was like two different planets colliding.

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I mean, from the way people dressed to the way they were behaving, what was coming out of their mouths, you could see it was like light and dark.

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Trust me. But what she said at one point when I was standing there, when she was talking about Roe versus Wade and what this could mean if they overturn

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Roe, and she said, we've already got a commitment from Chuck Schumer, I think Schumer she said, that he's going to put in legislation that gives

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Roe the legal force in our country. And they're saying it from the pulpit in front of the

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Supreme Court that if they overturn Roe, we're going to have legislation go in federally that will actually make abortion law in our country.

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How come they know it? They're saying it publicly. And the pro -lifers, it's like, did everyone over there, did you hear what they just said?

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Did you not hear that? Like you're all acting like this has to actually be a thing. It has to actually happen before you can make a move.

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But they just said in a microphone 20 feet away from you that they need to give this the force of law in our country.

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So if Roe goes down, we need to create legislation that makes abortion the law. I mean, they're saying it right in front of you.

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You know what I'm saying? It's like you're in a fight with a terrible enemy, and he's exposing his weakness.

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He's like, just put the kryptonite right there, and I go down. Just put it right inside there. This is my weak spot. Everyone's like,

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I'm going to go bite his ankles. I'm going to go chew on his ankles. It's even worse. The pro -life, largely, the community is still saying they don't know what they're doing.

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It goes much further than that. They're not even my enemy. They're not even trying to fight me.

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They're not even doing anything wrong. Please recognize when you're in a battle.

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That first step, step number one, recognize. Know who your enemy is. Know your enemy better than you know themselves.

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Well, it's just like right after that, we were out there in front of the court. Me and the guys I was with would go back to our hotel room.

24:32

We get on the elevator, and some woman asks who we're with and what we're doing. We told her, and she immediately starts cursing at us, dropping

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F -bombs. We're like, hey, God bless you. Have a nice day. That just makes it worse.

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She just keeps on cursing at us. Yeah, a lot of the pro -life movement is like, oh, that poor victim, that lady, she's just a victim.

24:55

She doesn't know what she's doing. Is she, though? Yeah. I mean, how many shirts did we see that day, Bradley, where people had shirts on rejoicing over their abortions, just so thankful for their abortions, saying how many abortions that they had.

25:11

These are not victims. These are people taking abortion pills in front of the Supreme Court. Hopefully they were just doing it, hopefully they weren't pregnant, but they may have been.

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I mean, they may have been actively killing their children right there in front of the Supreme Court. That's exactly right. They are not victims, and we need to stop treating them like they're victims because you don't treat other crimes like that.

25:32

Exactly right. But we've been worked on by our culture to see the woman who actually, and the man, by the way, who participates in the issue of abortion as victims themselves, victims of their circumstances, victim of the culture that they're in, all of that.

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And so we don't treat sex trafficking that way. We don't treat slavery that way. We don't treat theft that way. We don't even treat murder and other circumstances in that way.

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But we do with abortion, which says that we've been worked on by our culture, and we've been worked on by the pro -life industry and the people who are leading this fight when they say that both mother and baby are both equally victims.

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It needs to be seen as a crime. We need to work for equal protection for all human beings from the moment of conception, and that's what we're doing.

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I mean, it's an amazing thing. When we put in these bills of equal protection in the states, we're saying what the pro -life industry says they believe.

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We're saying simply, ready? It's human from conception. All humans deserve to be protected.

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Equal protection. That's it. That's what we're saying. That is the fundamental assertion of the pro -life industry.

26:32

They say they believe that. Well, and when you talked about it, when you were like, hey, yeah, put the kryptonite right here.

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Put it right here. Your enemy's telling you, put it right here. In Roe v. Wade, in the actual Roe v.

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Wade decision in 1973, the Supreme Court said, hey, Texas, your laws against abortion, you have different penalties for killing born people versus people not yet born, and then the mother, she's not a principal or an accomplice.

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She's completely immune. If a fetus is a person, why are these things so? I mean, they told us, like, here's your weakness.

27:05

Here's how to defeat this whole thing. But for the last 49 years, the pro -life movement has said, oh, no, we're going to do everything but that, everything but provide equal protection, which treats them like they're persons.

27:18

We're going to treat them like they're not persons. While we say they are, actions speak louder than words. That's right, brother.

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And I think the key issue, brothers and sisters, and we want to make sure that we help to educate our brothers and sisters in Christ in this fight so we can actually establish justice for these children.

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The key issue here is a fundamentally different worldview coming from the pro -life industry where you say, well, why wouldn't they want to fight consistently with that?

27:41

If they believe that it's human and they believe it deserves to be protected, then why wouldn't they get behind a bill that actually just says that?

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That's just what it says, and it is consistent with that. And the answer is the fundamentally opposed position and worldview to Scripture and a biblical worldview that says that the mother and the father who engage in the issue of abortion are themselves victims.

28:05

The pro -life industry does not want to let go of that assertion, and based upon that assertion, which is a fundamental commitment of theirs, they will never work to see this as a crime for a woman who actually engages in it or a father.

28:20

I want both to be seen as equally guilty. When a mom and dad are walking into an abortion mill, you better believe that I do not think that it is just the mother who bears the guilt of that moment.

28:29

It is also the man. It's the father as well. I want them both to be treated with equal justice, and I also want to make sure that as Christians, this is a key thing for us,

28:39

Bradley and Luke, when we were at our meeting together in Colorado, one of the things we said, when you're looking at something as a

28:46

Christian, what does God demand of you? And that's this. Do not show partiality. That's a key principle in Scripture.

28:53

Do not show partiality. And these pro -life bills, these incremental bills, they show partiality because they say, kill these kids but not these ones.

29:02

And even in the case of who's actually bearing the guilt of the issue of abortion, we don't want to show partiality there either.

29:08

We want to have equal weights and measures always. That's God's standard. No matter how you apply different aspects of the law of God in terms of their general equity today, we can say that that should be the guiding principle.

29:20

Do not show partiality. And so that's what we are engaged in, and Bradley Pierce, we love you, brother, and we're thankful for all the work that you're doing.

29:29

Thank you. Y 'all too. Hey, if I can just ask real quick, what's next? What should we expect with this moving forward?

29:35

Yeah, so the Supreme Court, they could issue a decision at any time, but the common wisdom is that they're going to probably issue this decision in June.

29:45

So that's when we can be, you know, that's around the time, June or July is when we can expect them to do something.

29:51

But again, we shouldn't be waiting for that. We should be praying for them. Hopefully they do the right thing. Hopefully they overturn

29:56

Roe, but we don't need to be waiting for that. We need to be pushing in our states right now for our legislatures, for our governors to pass bills of equal protection to abolish abortion.

30:07

You think that's enough time for them to read through that? I don't know, maybe we should give them like another six months.

30:12

Yeah, you could do it. I think you could do it in an hour or so. All right,

30:18

Bradley, thank you for all you're doing, brother. Looking forward to having you on again in the future. Thank you all so much. Thanks, brother. All right, bless you.

30:24

All right, everyone, go to EndAbortionNow .com to get your church equipped and to get them free resources to go out and save lives at the abortion mills.

30:34

And also go to EndAbortionNow .com to get connected so that you can work with the churches right now across the country who are speaking to legislators and working to get these bills of equal protection.

30:44

And this year, through your work together with us at EndAbortionNow, we were able to get work going in Arizona for equal protection bills for equal protection, criminalization.

30:55

We work with our brothers and sisters in Oklahoma. We got it going in Texas and in South Carolina and in Pennsylvania.

31:01

We are working right now on Louisiana, in Colorado, and a number of other states. And so it's all through your work together with us.

31:08

So go to EndAbortionNow .com to start working with us. We need your help. We are not creating little extensions of End Abortion Now as an industry.

31:21

We are working with local churches. You're doing your thing with our, all of us, message of the gospel and the word of God in the midst of this

31:30

Holocaust. And so we're just here as a resource to equip you, to train you, to connect everybody, and to work together to end this evil.

31:38

That's what we're doing. And we just want to be a support to you. If you can't go out to the abortion mills, there's plenty of people who are home -ridden and they're passionate about this.

31:48

You can give. Give. There's a lot of people that you feel like the Lord has blessed you with wealth and businesses to actually just be a part of funding the mission of the kingdom of God.

31:59

Give. Give at EndAbortionNow .com. We need your help. We need you to walk with us and to pray with us and, of course, to give for this ministry.

32:05

Everything that's happened has happened because brothers and sisters just like you partnered with us in this ministry. So the over 800 churches right now who have been raised up, trained, and equipped, and they're working now in their area to save lives, and we're saving thousands of children, and they're working with legislators.

32:22

That's all happened because people gave just like you. So go to EndAbortionNow .com to give there and to work with us in 2022 to actually—we're getting so close.

32:32

We're getting so close. All these states, all these bills, we're getting so much closer. But we need you to stand with us.

32:38

So that leads me to actually the next part of the discussion, and that is there was something that happened in Texas, and let me just go ahead and—

32:48

It was about three weeks ago, I think. I think it was. Maybe four weeks ago. Yeah, it's maybe been about a month.

32:55

It happened in Texas. It was a resolution for abolition, for abolishing abortion, and it was happening in Texas.

33:03

We have a video clip here we want to play. Our friend is in this video clip as somebody who was in support of the resolution, but there is a pastor,

33:11

Nathan Lino. He's arguing for the rejection of the resolution on abolishing abortion, and he gives some reasons.

33:21

We're going to engage with those, but I wanted to get some updates from J .R. as to what really was going on in Texas, what did the resolution say, and how do we better understand what was actually taking place in this video.

33:34

So Isaac, do we have J .R. on now, or should I go ahead and get started, and we'll get him on in a minute? Hey, Jeff, I'm here.

33:40

Oh, there you go. All right, brother. Welcome, sir. Hey, guys. This is J .R. Haas. It's a great

33:46

Texas name. It is a great Texas name. Yeah. It's beautifully Texas. Haas. How you doing,

33:52

Haas? I'm doing well, guys. I'm doing well. He actually works at Bradley, which is good. I know y 'all are kind of neighbors a couple states over, but if you ever want to come back and visit the great state of Texas, you're always welcome.

34:04

I was just there. It wasn't that great. It truly is great, as in stinking large.

34:10

It is great in size. Driving through Texas feels like you are driving through its own country.

34:15

It's like it's a never, ever -ending state. That's true. I know everyone says it all the time, but I had to do it twice this year, and it was just like, oh, when's this day going to be over with?

34:25

El Paso is like another country, by the way. Yeah, exactly it is. So glad to see when you see the sign for New Mexico, you're like, oh, yes.

34:33

Yeah, there's hope. There's hope. This is not just a loop that I'm in. I'm just driving in a loop in Texas.

34:40

All right, so JR, we're going to play through this. It's not very long. It's three minutes long. Explain to us what was going on in Texas and what we're about to listen to.

34:50

All right, so first of all, we had an opportunity to attend the

34:56

SBC convention and help Bill Askle and Dusty Devers and the brothers there bring in the resolution at the

35:03

SBC. And by what was almost a modern day miracle, by the grace of God, we saw it passed between a split body of 17 ,000 messengers for the

35:14

Southern Baptist Convention. With that, we came back to Texas. One of my elders, Pastor Aaron Wright, he was like, hey, let's go ahead and try this at the state level as well.

35:25

So Texas has two Baptist conventions. One is the Southern Baptist of Texas Convention, one we're affiliated with.

35:34

So he actually kind of took the language. We polished it a little bit, created pamphlets, submitted it to the

35:42

Southern Baptist of Texas Convention leadership. Up until right before the convention, we weren't sure what the status was of it.

35:52

We just knew they were going to meet and give us a decision, and we didn't really find out until the day of whether or not our resolution was accepted or if it had been just declined as it was at the

36:07

Southern Baptist of Texas Convention. So we show up that morning. We had already passed out roughly 500 pamphlets to an audience of about 1 ,000 attendees, messengers, and guests.

36:21

And now came the time for business for the resolution committee to present.

36:27

I think they had about 10 resolutions. And on that resolution list, they had a resolution speaking to life, but it was one basically affirming and celebrating the heartbeat bill that had recently been passed.

36:44

But they had declined to accept or present our resolution separately.

36:51

I had been given at the time instructions by the resolution committee, and we can talk more about this in a minute.

36:58

But I was told I couldn't make a motion to just bring it from the floor like we did at the SBC. Instead, I had to offer our resolution as an amendment for the heartbeat bill resolution.

37:11

So this was kind of a large task at hand. We were basically saying, hey, not only let's not celebrate the heartbeat bill, but let's embrace going forward and working towards abolishing abortion.

37:25

And so what you're going to hear here is, just to give a little bit of context and a little grace to the body of people there, many had received this pamphlet with the resolution in it, but they may have dropped it in their car, left it in their hotel room.

37:41

While the SBTC leadership was gracious to us and fair in some regards, they weren't working with us to ensure the messengers had the clear text for them to review when it came time for this decision.

37:59

So you're going to, well, you won't be able to hear the whole debate, but there was a moment when one of the messengers came forward and said, can somebody read this resolution?

38:09

We don't have the language. We don't see it on a screen. And so Aaron Wright actually had to read through a 19 -point resolution.

38:24

And just to give them a little grace, there's a lot to take in just hearing it verbally and never actually having read it or digested it.

38:31

But that didn't stop these brothers standing up and going against it. Opposing it, yeah.

38:37

So the pastor who was arguing for its rejection is named

38:44

Nathan Leno. And so he's going to come up here in just a moment here. So we'll let you hear what they said.

38:49

All right. Microphone number two. Mr. President, my name is Nathan Leno, and I'm a messenger from Northeast Houston Baptist Church in Humboldt, Texas.

38:59

I would urge my fellow messengers to vote no on the amendment and to accept the resolution from the committee as is.

39:07

I'm thankful for my brothers who are presenting the amendment and for the arguments that they have made.

39:14

I strongly disagree with them, however. We are pro -life.

39:19

We have been very clear that we as an organization are against abortion. If my numbers are correct, we have passed at the national level even 28 resolutions against abortion over the years as the

39:32

Southern Baptist Convention. My church family has spent seven figures at great cost to ourselves fighting abortion and running a pregnancy clinic in Houston's Fifth Ward.

39:41

There is no question that we are a pro -life people. However, when you read this amendment that is being presented in their own language, while I agree with the heart of it that we want abortion ended, the language is harsh, it is mean, and it does not represent the spirit of who we are, that we are a people full of grace and truth.

40:05

For example, using the... Let's do it. Brother, I'm surprised you got past the seven figures without stopping.

40:14

Yeah, yeah, so I'm going to let everyone get a chance to hear him, but when he says the language is harsh and it is mean,

40:23

J .R., what's he talking about? Brother, it really felt like he just smacked me.

40:28

Like, smacked us. What he's talking about, we're using the language of the

40:35

Scriptures, right? If you look at this, I don't know if the whole audience has seen the resolution, we can share a website here shortly so they can go and read it, but we have

40:46

Scripture available, and we're using the terminology of our

40:51

Lord. So when he's saying these are harsh and mean -spirited words,

40:58

I would put the question back to him, you know, because this is the language of truth.

41:05

We don't want to sugarcoat sin. We want to call murder what it is.

41:10

Certainly that doesn't make the grace available through Christ any less sufficient, but if we are going to lie to people or soften it in this pseudo idea of love that our culture has,

41:27

I mean, I don't know. That brother's going to have to give an account for his concept of love, but when you're calling this language as hateful and mean,

41:36

I would ask him, you know, where does he think we're getting this language from? Yeah, and that's something everyone needs to be aware of, and we're trying to constantly make everybody aware of what we've become aware of ourselves in this fight to establish justice for these pre -born children, and that's that the pro -life industry has a working vocabulary and dictionary.

41:57

They have a particular foundation. They're standing on a worldview, and here's the thing. If you have been in the pro -life community and amongst the industry itself, and you've been quote -unquote fighting abortion, and I say that in quotes not to be nasty, but to say like, for example, the bill that was passed in Arizona this year that says you can't kill a child for the express reason that it has a genetic abnormality, that's not fighting abortion.

42:23

That's saying kill the healthy kids, but not the ones with genetic abnormalities. That's not fighting abortion in any meaningful way, and it could be resisted by simply walking into the office and saying,

42:33

I'm not killing it because of Down syndrome. I'm killing it because I don't want it, because I hate it, because it disgusts me. I don't want it on my body, whatever the case may be.

42:40

That's not fighting abortion, but if you've been running in those circles, and even as a pastor you've run in those circles, you are adopting the terminology, the vocabulary, the working dictionary of the pro -life industry, and so when we talk about abortion in that circle, in those circles, we're dumbing down the language of scripture.

43:00

We're dumbing down the call to repentance and faith. We're dumbing down even calling it murder. I can demonstrate that to you as a fact.

43:08

We have interviews from the top leaders of the pro -life industry who refuse to call it murder. They call the woman a victim, and as I've said here on this show, right here,

43:18

Luke and I have constantly pressed this issue. When I was on the phone with our pro -life industry leader in the state of Arizona, Kathy Harrod, who resisted, by the way, the end of abortion in the state of Arizona, and she actually worked to decriminalize it for the mother.

43:32

She told me, very personally, that she can never get behind what we're doing because we're calling abortion murder, and that she believes that mothers are victims.

43:41

She says she knows too many women who have had abortions, and she can't possibly call them murderers, which means now we can't bring the gospel to them to heal, because she's a victim, she's not guilty, all the rest.

43:51

If this gentleman has been operating in those circles, then it makes sense to me why he would see a resolution that says biblical worldview language.

44:03

Murder, crime, end, all that stuff. Guilt, gospel.

44:08

Why he would say, well, that seems really mean -spirited, and just, that just seems, you know, very, in some ways, hostile.

44:14

Like, you know, we're about grace and truth. Well, great, I want both those things. And that's why

44:20

I believe in the criminalization of abortion, because I want grace of the gospel applied, and I want the truth by calling it what it actually is, calling women and men to repent of it.

44:30

So I get it. If he's been working in the pro -life industry and community circles, when you see a consistent resolution that says, call it what it is, use biblical language, let's bring the gospel in the conflict with this, he might say, well, that sounds really mean.

44:46

Why? Well, because we're not talking about the woman as a victim. We're showing a much larger concern in the circumstance for the baby who's being dismembered.

44:56

And so I think that's probably what is happening here, at least to some degree. You guys want to fill in on that?

45:02

Yeah, I was just going to say, it's important to point this out, and I've been trying to let the world know this as much as I can, but, you know, he's talking about how many resolutions they've passed, and OJR mentioned the seven figures and all that.

45:17

Keep in mind that the same people that they're celebrating for passing the heartbeat bill, which is what you attached this amendment to, or resolution to, the same people that passed that heartbeat bill are the same ones that got the abolition bill canceled, essentially.

45:36

They're the same ones that said, don't vote for this. So they could have ended it. They could have been truly pro -life and ended it altogether. They said, don't vote for that one, vote for this one, so you can still murder your children at an early age.

45:48

So when he gets up there and brags about how pro -life they are, the world needs to know that that's a ruse. Yeah, and I think

45:55

I always want to put my finger on the heart. Like, go for the heart, go for the jugular every time.

46:02

This is emotional. This is emotionalism. This isn't a commitment to the word of God as a foundation.

46:11

Let's let the word give us our marching orders for our methodology, and let's let the word give us our dictionary, our vocabulary.

46:19

Let's use that instead of what the world has given to us. Go ahead, JR. It's man's wisdom, brother.

46:27

Just to Luke's point, coming back a second, I often reference one of the things at the passing of the heartbeat bill.

46:35

You saw a big picture of the governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, and the senators and legislators that passed it all in one picture, making big hearts like this.

46:44

And I've asked many people, I said, you see the people in that picture, how many more votes did it take to pass a bill that would have protected 110 ,000 pre -born children over the next two years until the next legislative session?

46:58

And people are like, well, I guess it wouldn't have taken any more votes. And I'm like, yeah. So isn't that an indictment against the very same people in this picture that they weren't willing?

47:08

I make a point in another interview, it would be one thing. I mean, again, my position is

47:14

I wouldn't vote for those bills. I believe they're unjust. But it'd be one thing if they were voting for that bill and their name was actually on a bill that actually outlawed murder.

47:24

But these people are voting for these bills in absence of voting for bills that would actually protect all pre -born children.

47:33

Yeah, and let's make a point here, and that is to say that when Christians have brought the gospel to different nations and the transformation of that nation begins, and you start to see justice and righteousness and peace sort of flow through that nation, in history,

47:49

Christian nations have always seen abortion as murder, and we've fought against it as murder. We've fought against it to make it a crime.

47:56

And in this particular nation that we're in right now, the United States of America, you have evidence all throughout the states where you see that the

48:03

Christian influence with the word of God at their feet always led to the criminalization of abortion, calling it a crime, saying that it is real guilt, and it is an actual crime to take the life of your child in the womb.

48:15

And so we've gone from not very long ago, and it's still in the books in many, many states, abortion is a crime in the states, still is a crime in those states.

48:23

Roe v. Wade didn't do anything to stop that. We've gone from there to now we have this very soft approach, because we're not standing on scripture, to the issue of ending abortion.

48:33

We don't want it to be called a crime for those who actually engage in it. We're resisting that.

48:39

So we do things like heartbeat bills and wider hallways, and don't use this tool to kill the child.

48:44

You can use this tool to kill the child. Rather than just getting to the basic fundamental thing, and that's like, what is it?

48:51

What are we trying to do? Criminalize it. End it. Call it a crime. Well, wouldn't that mean that people would just go and back alleys and kill their children?

49:01

Yeah. Same thing goes for sex trafficking. You're going to make sex trafficking a crime, and people, guess what?

49:07

Evil people are still going to try to do that. And what do you do with them? You actually capture them, you bring charges against them, and you charge them with a crime, because it's a crime.

49:17

So the whole thing, like, well, they're just going to go ahead in the back alleys and do it anyway. It's like, well, yeah, because that's where crime actually belongs. It belongs in the dark back alleys.

49:24

Anyways, I like to push it there instead of the open square. That's kind of what I like to do. And so it's just really a fallacious form of reasoning.

49:32

But let's do something else. Joy, did you want to add something? Well, I was just going to point out, and he's perhaps going to expand, but just as you ended the clip, he was talking about, like, we're a community filled with grace.

49:45

And, I mean, I have some things to say about that, but I guess as you continue to play the clip,

49:51

I think we should just keep in mind grace from who and for what.

49:57

Yeah. Forgiveness. Well, you're talking about emotionalism, and really what this guy is saying is that I want to— we're a community that gives grace outside of the law of God, outside of what

50:12

God says. And it's concerning that also the pro -life community and Christians in general have used this form of emotionalism to say that they can almost recreate the law in a way that's appropriate for them or makes them feel loving or kind.

50:32

Well, we're going to get to this in a moment, because he gets right into kind of squarely right where you're at. It's good, though, to start the discussion.

50:38

But that's a good point, and I'd like everyone to think about that before you hear the next part. When he says grace and truth— and I'll let you go here,

50:44

JR, one second. So when he says grace and truth, you made the point, grace for what?

50:51

Are they guilty? Are they guilty of something? And that's what you're trying to bring the grace of the gospel into?

50:56

Because if you don't tell the truth about what they're guilty of, then where's the grace coming in? For what?

51:03

That's the point. For what are we applying this grace? Are you really guilty? Okay, what are you guilty of?

51:10

Is it murder? And that's a key issue, and I want everyone to be thinking that. JR, go ahead. Yeah, I was just going to say that, to Joy's point, this is not an indictment on us.

51:25

He didn't even address the issue. He didn't bring any Scripture. He didn't question it.

51:31

As much as he's indicting us, saying this is the language of hate and meanness, understand, if we are standing on the

51:39

Word of God, he's indicting the Lord, right? And because he has a perverse view, in my opinion, of what love is,

51:48

I mean, I feel like he's treading in very tumultuous water here, claiming that this concept, if it is founded in Scripture, that it is unloving.

52:01

Because if he's redefining what love is, that's extra biblical, right?

52:07

Right. No, God is love, the substance of it, and he defines what love is. We don't turn around and judge

52:14

God and tell him he's unloving. Right, exactly. Exactly right. Yeah, God is love. He's a standard of love.

52:19

If you want to know what love looks like, look at the incarnation of Jesus, and look how he confronted sin. He confronted it with truth.

52:26

He was honest about it, and he called people to repent of it, and that's what we have to be doing. So here's some more.

52:31

This is the next piece. Page 5, sentence 1, paragraph 2, they are calling our president and our resolutions committee members compromisers of the word of God.

52:43

That is a big statement of our duly elected brothers and sisters, and I strongly disagree with it.

52:49

Another example of the heart. I'm going to go ahead and call that emotional manipulation. I'll call it out for what it is because if someone wants to say, hey,

52:57

Jeff, I think you're compromising here, I can't then respond to that. Did you hear what he called us?

53:03

He said, you're talking about pastors here. You're calling me a compromiser.

53:09

Now go ahead and make your case. I mean this is a meeting amongst supposed to be men of God, right? It's a meeting amongst men of God.

53:15

And it wasn't a Facebook comment. Yeah, exactly. It's a whole official process that we're going through.

53:21

I'm claiming this is compromise. I'm claiming it's compromise. Okay, ready? Make your case.

53:27

I'm a fallible human being. Make your case. If I'm compromising in the Word of God, then show me where I'm compromising.

53:34

Don't pull on the heartstrings. Don't do the emotional appeals like our duly elected representatives are being called compromisers.

53:41

Okay, let's try this. If we just looked at the Bible, are there examples of the people of God and even leadership compromising?

53:50

So it's not so far -fetched, right? Have we gotten to a place where we're so sanctified that we couldn't possibly have compromised anywhere in our methodology?

53:57

What arrogance is that? But the manipulation and pulling on the heartstrings, you're calling our duly elected representatives compromisers.

54:05

It's like the whole history of mankind is filled with compromisers. So if someone says,

54:11

I think this is compromising, don't pull on the heartstrings and say, you're speaking about duly elected representatives.

54:16

It's like that's not how this world works. The Word of God is the standard, not our position, not our methodologies.

54:23

It's the Word of God. And so let's have a debate. And Joey's right. It's an official process, my friend. It's not a

54:29

Facebook post. Well, and this is where our snowflake, and he's clearly older than the snowflake generation, but the snowflake -like victimhood nonsense comes to bear.

54:41

He said, he called me a compromiser. It's like, man up. Yeah, there you go.

54:47

Just man up, man. Yeah, we should have titled this, man up. Stop being a crybaby. You were allowed to critique someone else within the church.

54:56

The issue, babies are being murdered over a million a year, over 60 million dead in this nation.

55:05

So don't whine when someone says, I think we're compromising here. This is compromise. Don't whine because we're talking about death, like lots of children dying every single day because of this.

55:16

So just take it in stride and listen, and don't use the emotional manipulation. I think it's very important.

55:23

Amen. Sorry, Isaac, I'll move back a little bit there. Here we go.

55:28

Ready? Go. The spirit of grace in addition to truth is resolved, number 16, where it says that we affirm that the murder of pre -born children is a crime against.

55:41

Reading the resolution right now, by the way. The language you just shared was not in the resolution.

55:48

That's not the resolution. No, no, no. We read the resolution. Was it in the whereas or the resolves?

55:58

I'm holding the pamphlet you handed me at this microphone five minutes ago. I'm just reading your words back to you. Yes, sir.

56:05

My question to the chairman is the language he spoke. I know there's some other questions in this pamphlet, but we're talking about the whereases and the resolves.

56:15

Your point is well taken. That was so gangster, JR. JR, explain that.

56:20

Just in parliamentary order, he's supposed to be speaking against the amendment, which is the language of the resolution.

56:32

He basically, we kind of were talking to this already, but I'll read you the language that he kind of went forward and applied it to a specific retiring president and specific people on the stage.

56:47

This is what the language said, which is actually more in the Q &A section.

56:53

It says, Southern Baptist Texas have not failed to be pro -life. We have pro -life statements. We have pro -life sanctity of life sermons.

56:59

We have pro -life articles, videos, and conferences, but we have failed to be unified prophetic voice demanding of magistrates the total and immediate abolition of abortion in Jesus' name.

57:10

Compromise is the language of worldly politicians, not of the bride of Christ. When it comes to child sacrifice, the

57:17

Texas Southern Baptist message to the world must be as unequivocal and steadfast as scripture itself.

57:24

We have no right to retreat from one inch from God's holy standard. It goes on, but the point is, we were saying, let's not be like the worldly politician.

57:34

He, again, is going back to emotionalism, and he's saying, they're calling our dearly. In the context, what you guys aren't getting from this, this was the weekend of the retirement of one of the founding pastors for this convention, and aside from this one resolution, it was more of a victory lap and a big celebration.

57:53

So when we showed up on the scene, and we're trying to actually debate some scripture and a modern atrocity that's going on with this modern -day genocide in our nation, they weren't ready for it.

58:06

So here he is, he's going along with it, and he's like, hey, they're insulting this pastor. We were just celebrating our dearly beloved president.

58:13

And my point to him, with the parliamentary point of order, was just to say, brother, stop reading into this commentary outside of the resolution and speak to the resolution language.

58:24

Because I could sit there and get in the weeds and debate with him what we were saying or intended by this commentary outside of the resolution, but that wasn't what was on the floor or what was being debated.

58:35

There you go. Okay, here's more. So, continue. Resolved number 16 of their resolution out of their pamphlet, again proving the harshness and the mean spirit that is entailed here, resolved that we affirm that the murder of a pre -born child, children, is a crime against humanity that must be treated equally under the law as the murder of a born person.

58:58

So mean. Many of us have young females in our youth groups. We have grandchildren and children who are females growing up in a sex -saturated culture.

59:08

Many of them will have the opportunity at sex outside of marriage. It's impossible.

59:15

All right, so a question I have is, do you disagree? Do you disagree?

59:23

Because let's go back and listen to that. I want you to hear it again, everyone. What would you disagree with here as a pastor, as a person who believes in the word of God?

59:32

Let's play that again. Ready? Isaac? Must be treated equally under the law as the murder of a born person.

59:41

Let me do that again. Out of their pamphlet, again proving the harshness and the mean spirit that is entailed here, resolved that we affirm that the murder of a pre -born child, children, is a crime against humanity that must be treated equally under the law as the murder of a born person.

01:00:00

Harsh? Mean? Just what exactly was harsh and mean about that, if you believe the

01:00:07

Bible? If you believe the Bible, then you believe that's an image -bearer of God. If you believe the

01:00:13

Bible, you would have to believe that taking the life of a human being in an unjustified manner is a crime against humanity.

01:00:20

It is a crime against another human. That's what that statement means. It is a crime against another human being.

01:00:28

How is that harsh? How is it mean? A teenage girl could read it and have their feelings hurt.

01:00:34

JR? Jeff, I was going to say, you know, just ask him, like it exposes, ask him to be consistent with his own values.

01:00:42

If you asked him if he believed that life began at conception, he would probably say, well, absolutely.

01:00:48

If you asked many within the pro -life establishment if they believe life began at conception, they would say absolutely.

01:00:55

If you can say that and think that statement is mean, you're exposing your bias.

01:01:00

You're exposing your skewed view, your perverted view towards partiality, right?

01:01:06

We're saying these pre -born neighbors have equal value in the eyes of God, but we are going to give them a different protection under the law.

01:01:16

That is discrimination. Partiality. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So what I think is actually demonstrably harsh and mean is to engage in that kind of partiality, where you say,

01:01:28

I know that it's human, I know that it's the unjustified taking of human life, but I don't want these human beings in the womb to be treated the same way as all other humans.

01:01:37

That's called partiality, and I want to say that God indicts that in Scripture, and God would call that harsh and mean.

01:01:43

It's harsh because it is essentially discriminating, and it's saying, I'm not going to afford you the same love and protection as I will everyone else.

01:01:52

I would say that's very harsh, and I'd say it's extremely mean -spirited. And one more thing

01:01:57

I want to say, in terms of being harsh and mean, if you're not honest with a person who's in front of you who's actually guilty of something, to call them to repentance and faith and to bring to them

01:02:07

Christ in the midst of that, I think it's very mean. I think it's very mean to essentially say to somebody who needs

01:02:13

Christ, who needs his peace, who needs reconciliation, who needs forgiveness, to say to them,

01:02:19

I'm going to withhold the call of the gospel, which comes, of course, solidly with a hit of the law of God, you're guilty.

01:02:29

I'm going to withhold the law of God from you and the peace of Christ, because I want your conscience to not feel overwhelmed with guilt and shame right now.

01:02:39

I want you to feel like I really love you and that I empathize and that I'm in this with you.

01:02:44

I want you to feel that. So I'm not going to come to you like Jesus would, or like St. John the Baptist does in Matthew 3 to the guilty

01:02:50

Jews of his day, where he tells them that judgment is coming and he says to bear fruit, keeping with repentance. I'm not going to be like a

01:02:57

John the Baptist. No, I'm going to be like someone who betrays you with a kiss.

01:03:03

Who has ulterior motives, things in the back of their mind they're doing, but they're coming to you one way and they're kissing you and sort of like fluffing you up.

01:03:13

That's exactly what Judas is guilty of. I'm like, Rabbi, and he betrays them with a kiss. I don't want to betray these women with a kiss.

01:03:19

I don't want to flatter them and pretend like, no, you don't really need Christ in this. No, you're a victim too.

01:03:26

I want to say that all of these young women in our churches who may be engaging in sex outside of marriage and may have then the,

01:03:33

I think, beautiful consequence of a child. I don't think that's a curse. That's still a gift from God in the midst of sin.

01:03:39

That's what I think babies are. They're a gift from God. I want to say in the midst of that, no, you're really guilty and don't murder your child.

01:03:48

I think that abortion should be seen in a nation that's been transformed by the gospel as a criminal act.

01:03:55

You cannot kill another human being in an unjustified manner. That is through and through Scripture, and it is not mean -spirited or harsh to say that to a person.

01:04:05

You cannot take human life in an unjustified manner. That's not mean. It's not harsh. JR, go ahead.

01:04:12

I was just going to say there's another reason, I think, even God -fearing brothers and sisters who aren't quite there yet on equal protection are hesitant.

01:04:25

I think part of them, I mean, any reasonable person would say, man, these last 50 years women have been indoctrinated to believe this is a clump of cells.

01:04:33

How can we just enforce the law and, you know, even if they agree with equal protection at some point, they might feel that it's unloving or it's too harsh to do it overnight, to which

01:04:46

I would say, again, the same thing, the other issue we were having before with man's wisdom and how to fight this abortion and this genocide altogether, we're now applying even on this where, you know, there's a cultural sin going on here where we have basically been telling women, because if, again, we go back into Scripture, we know that it tells us that the law is a tutor.

01:05:12

And so if the law is a tutor, Roe has been teaching our daughters and our wives for generations that these children don't have value.

01:05:19

But we don't turn around and soften the law or manipulate God's truth concerning value and just measures by watering it down.

01:05:32

No, we need to go institute it, repent as a nation, repent as a people, and understand that, no, law -abiding people are going to stop killing their babies overnight when we outlaw abortion.

01:05:46

For those who love death, they're probably going to continue. And like you said earlier, Jeff, maybe that does take place in back alleys.

01:05:54

But to that point earlier, I was going to say, it's like, where else do we make murder safer or try to clean it up?

01:06:04

There's no other crime that we try to help the person who's performing it do it more successfully or in a cleaner light.

01:06:14

But that being said, this idea that we need to just slowly re -communicate to women, or there's even bills here in Texas where they're just trying to educate women.

01:06:26

And we're like, no, you're falling. It's the same fatal flaw. You're not trusting in the

01:06:32

Word of God. It is the power of God's Word to transform hearts and minds. When we begin to use man's wisdom to manipulate the law and to go around and not just trust him and his

01:06:44

Word, we're dead in the water. There's no power in that.

01:06:49

That's right. Well, and what's really troubling is when you pair the whole context of this with words, grace -giving community, what you're actually saying is we have the power to extend grace on this issue.

01:07:07

And when it comes to murder, we humans, just regular people not involved in the law, we don't have the ability to just cover that.

01:07:20

So you're actually lying to those teenage girls. You're lying and saying,

01:07:25

I know that makes you feel bad, but don't worry, I can forgive you without repentance. No part of it is biblical, and it's a horrible lie.

01:07:35

Yeah. And we've talked about this so many times, on this show and just elsewhere, we don't treat theft that way.

01:07:44

We don't. How come we don't treat people who are guilty of theft this way? Well, and I'm sorry, but this is...

01:07:51

Women are the reason why this is happening. I mean, the sexual revolution and second -wave feminism, here you go.

01:08:00

This is why it's happening. Women are not ignorant and they're not powerless. We have achieved such above and beyond equality that women are allowed to kill their babies without any consequence.

01:08:15

Yeah, with impunity. That's exactly right. I mean, to that point, Joy, we've made mothers a special class of person to deem one life as valuable and another life as invaluable or unvaluable.

01:08:32

So, again, as a culture, we've put that on women, empowered them to make this decision, and they're living under the weight and guilt of that sin, and now we're still not.

01:08:44

Even the Christians are not resolved enough to say, no, it is sin. Like, the freedom, the relief, comes in acknowledging it as such and trusting in Christ, because His blood is sufficient, right?

01:08:59

And His grace is sufficient to forgive us and to relieve us of that weight.

01:09:05

That's right. So, JR, quickly, what was the end result of this day? What happened? So, it was voted down.

01:09:13

I mean, probably 95%. Very few voted in favor of it. As I mentioned, it was a tall order for us to, in the way it was presented,

01:09:25

I will say the leadership, I put more weight on the leadership, even though they were, you know, they were accommodating at times with us and worked with us.

01:09:36

They weren't really helping us to convey or bring it in a proper light to where messengers knew what they were voting on.

01:09:44

So, it was very much, you know, a difficult situation to try to get it passed.

01:09:49

So, as much as I believe this is an indictment against the entire body of the SBTC, because they voted this way,

01:09:55

I don't want to overstate that they knew really what they were voting on.

01:10:03

Or, you know, I think our coming away from it, what we see is there's a thousand people who now have held this, you know, pamphlet, this resolution, who had to actually entertain the idea of abolition.

01:10:19

There's pastors that heard debate. It's on record now. You guys are talking about it. Other pastors are having to talk about it.

01:10:26

We're seeing this done around various states. Arkansas, I think, Missouri, Oklahoma.

01:10:33

So, this is spurring on an awakening in the church. And I think that's what, you know, that's where we take confidence.

01:10:42

I mentioned in another interview that, you know, I don't come away from this as like, oh my goodness,

01:10:48

I can't believe these guys. Like, you know, they're anathema. Like, we're done with them.

01:10:56

No, if anything, I come away grieved. You know, we went to this body of people, not because we're trying to like, you know, invade and kind of take over and subvert this organization.

01:11:07

No, like we believe these are brothers that embrace, you know, sola scriptura, that believe in the word of God and the power of the word of God.

01:11:16

We believe when we brought arguments that were, you know, substantiated by the text of the scriptures that we all cling to, we believe we would win them over.

01:11:28

And so, I don't leave this convention disappointed.

01:11:35

I mean, certainly a little disappointed, but more grieved that, you know, we run into battle and the guys you think that would be running with you are nowhere to be found.

01:11:45

So, it's like, all right, Lord, I guess we need to go back and rally the troops again.

01:11:50

So, I don't know. I'm prayerful. I think this needs to happen across denominations that brothers need to be rising up to bring these discussions to various leaders.

01:12:02

We need more pastors. We need more people advocating for this truth because this is not going away.

01:12:12

And it is, there is no neutrality. And the only true answer that we're going to find is when we finally humble ourselves and trust in the word of God and the power of his word to change the hearts and minds of this nation, of our state.

01:12:29

You know, and Lord willing, one day we'll see the end of this mass genocide here.

01:12:34

Yes, we will, brother. In our state and in our country. That's right, brother. All right, brother, where can people go to take a look at that resolution? So, the resolution, we actually have, you can find it on abolishabortiontx .org.

01:12:46

We also have another website for the Southern Baptist of Texas.

01:12:53

And I should have known you were going to ask me. The website, yeah, it's sbtaa .org.

01:13:03

And that is Southern Baptist of Texas for abolishing abortion.

01:13:09

Okay, brother. So it's there. Thank you so much. Thanks for joining us on such late notice as well today. Thank you for your time, brother.

01:13:15

Absolutely. Hey, God bless you guys. God bless you. Thank you. All right, so there you go, guys. Hopefully this show was a benefit to everybody today.

01:13:23

Did you want to do the, we're over time, I think. Did you want to do the, did you want to show it? I know, we're way over time. Okay, all right, so maybe next week.

01:13:30

We'll talk about Bahumbug in Moscow, Idaho. So everybody, make sure you go to endabortionnow .com.

01:13:37

Go there, get signed up with your church, get your free resources, get your free training, get connected, get everything you need to go out and start saving lives.

01:13:45

Thousands and thousands and thousands of children are alive today because Christians just like you were listening to a show just like this and then went to endabortionnow .com.

01:13:54

Their church got signed up and babies were saved in two weeks, literally in two weeks from when they listened to the show to where they signed up and they got all their resources, they went out, they preached the gospel, they offered help, they offered hope, they offered love to these women, and God blessed it.

01:14:09

And so we want the same thing for you. Make sure you guys also go get your free Bonson You account at apologyostudios .com.

01:14:16

Do it right after this show. You are going to be missing out on some of the best training you can get in history, theology, philosophy, apologetics, ethics, all of that.

01:14:25

Much less for free. For free, and it shouldn't be for free.

01:14:31

When I say it shouldn't be, I'm talking about the time, the investment, where it came from. You understand people paid for this all before when they were going to school with Bonson.

01:14:38

They were paying to go to seminary to listen to these lectures. You're getting it all for freezies and it's the best of the best of the best.

01:14:44

I would recommend all of Bonson You and all those lectures for pastors to train up -and -coming pastors more than I would recommend 99 % of seminaries out there, and I mean that.

01:14:57

I'm not just saying it because we house it. I mean that sincerely. What you're going to get in terms of training and resources through this program at Bonson You and everything that's there, it far, far exceeds what you're going to get in the majority of seminaries today, and I mean that.

01:15:16

So, that is Luke the Bear. Before we close, today is nine years, well, this week.

01:15:22

Nine years. Woo! Nine years of Apologia Radio. Always remember, it's only the first week of December.

01:15:27

We started at a little old radio station, downtown Phoenix, 24th

01:15:33

Street and Camelback. Is that right? 24th Street and Camelback. We were playing Terrestrial all over Arizona, but we were also uploading it, and that's where you guys started to learn about it and get blessed by it.

01:15:43

So, praise the Lord. Thank you, God, for your grace to us. Joy the Girl. Yeah. I'm Jeff, the

01:15:48

Culminator Ninja. By the way, go check out the devotionals that we have at Apologia Studios on this YouTube channel.

01:15:54

Hope it's a blessing. It was so much work. Thank you to our team for all that they did to do this. It's been an encouragement to a lot of people.

01:16:01

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01:16:10

We're grateful to God that we got to do that. Make sure you do that today, and we'll catch you next time right here on Apologia Radio.