Baptism Debate: Matt Slick vs AK Richardson

Debate Format and Opening Positions

All right, so welcome everybody. I hope that we're gonna be having a lot of watchers, a lot of listeners on this debate. And the debate is titled, is water baptism by immersion necessary for salvation?

And of course, I deny that it is. I believe in justification by faith through Christ and not through a bet and a ceremony, which baptism is definitely a ceremony. But we'll get into that. Okay, so what we're gonna be doing is we're gonna, I'll introduce myself and then we'll have him introduce himself for a little bit.

We're gonna have a 15 minute opening each up to 15 minutes. And then we're gonna have a 10 minute response up to 10 minutes each, then 10 minutes cross examination where we ask each other questions. And then we're gonna have 10 minutes of closing statements each.

After that, we'll probably take a little bit of a break here just a bit while our moderator Ernie has gets the questions. And if you have questions during the discussion, all you have to do is to just type them out either in Facebook or YouTube.

They will filter in here to our account. We're using StreamYard and then Ernie will collect them. So you can do it during the debate and then he will provide those questions and they will probably what the goal is to alternate where whoever gets one first, it doesn't matter.

If I get one first and I respond for two minutes to the question, then AK gets to respond for one minute to that. Then we just go to the next question. And so it'll be long discussion. My name is Matt Slick.

I represent Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, carm .org. I'm an ordained minister and a defender of the Christian faith and I work against cults, false religious systems, secular systems and things like that.

My opponent is AK Richardson. Why don't you introduce yourself? Yeah, I'm a preacher for the Church of Christ.

Here in Cape City, Arkansas. Been preaching, been studying the Bible for about 20 years and I'm just trying to defend the one faith once delivered to the saints. Just if you want some contact information, my email is akrichardson at zoho .com.

It's Z-O-H-O .com. You can check out my YouTube page. Just search up my name, AK Richardson. You'll find a variety of videos. Right now, I got a lot on Calvinism there, but you can contact me if you wanna have questions or discussions, private or public, we could do that.

And I appreciate Matt for having me on here.

Sure, if you wanna have some discussions on Calvinism, let me know. I would love to do that. All right, so I'm getting this here. Okay, just baptism, but debate. And there's one more thing I was gonna say and I can't remember what it was.

Oh, I hate that when that happens. Oh yeah, I remember now. So while you're talking, what I'm gonna do is mute myself and then I have a speech program and I talk. My speech program transcribes. So if you see me talking during our discussion, it's not me being rude, it's just taking notes.

Okay, just let you know that. And I'll mute myself for that. And we both have the ability to do that kind of stuff. So I think that's it, all right? And I'll tell you what, since you don't have to worry about time, I'll do the set a timer for 15 minutes and I'll wave at you or something like that.

What I'll do is this. I'm gonna do this. No. I do have a timer. You can use yours. I'll go ahead and start mine as well. Okay, that's good. Let's see, I could do that way. Try it here, wait a second. There we go.

Something like that, okay?

You can see me waving or whatever it is. I'm trying to make this right. Let's see. No, come on, get that right. Okay. Floor is yours. Okay, I'm gonna start with timer. All right, well, first of all, I appreciate everybody watching.

A lot of people have had an interest in this and I appreciate your interest. I gotta say once again, thanks to Matt for doing this and having me on. Just a couple of things real quickly here before I begin.

Now, I do believe Matt is a false teacher. I believe he has a false understanding of the things we're talking about here this evening and I'm here to defend the truth, but it's important to understand that that's not a reflection of any animosity as I adamantly defend the truth.

Mr. Slick is a man made in the image of God. I care about him. I've been praying for Matt. I would love to see Matt in eternity. It's just a matter of defending the truth. That's what I consider my job here.

Okay, so water baptism by immersion is necessary for salvation. The Bible absolutely teaches that. Now, and by that, I mean that an alien sinner must be as required by Christ and the apostles as seen in the Theopneustos Scriptures, must be water baptized, immersed in order to be forgiven and justified by faith.

Now, the necessity of baptism is gonna be the emphasis on my part. Now, the mode will be secondary, but as you will see, the mode will be immersion, but I really wanna stress the necessity of it. Okay, so, you know, from the beginning of the New Testament to the end, and actually all the Bible, we see that salvation is by grace through faith.

Now, that's my position. I do believe that salvation is by grace through faith. And so as we see the rest of the New Testament require baptism, it's just a matter of simple hermeneutics to see that that is a part of being saved through faith.

Now, this is gonna be important as you listen, because popular theology's primary arguments against the necessity of baptism, and including Mr. Slick's primary arguments, is that we're justified by faith, therefore not baptism.

But it's just a simple matter of seeing that this is a part of being justified by faith, because that's my position, to be justified by faith, which includes baptism. Okay, so let's start in Acts 2. Now, in Acts 2, Peter preaches to the crowd, convinces them with his sermon that they have killed their own Messiah, the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

And it says in verse 37, now, when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, convicted of their sin, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, brethren, what shall we do? Peter said to them, repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Now, that establishes my position very clearly. Baptism is for the forgiveness of sins. Friends, you cannot be saved without the forgiveness of sins. This contradicts Mr. Slick's position, that you're saved before baptism.

You are not saved before the forgiveness of sins. Here it says, repent and be baptized. Now, both are necessary. You have to repent, which even Mr. Slick doesn't even believe you have to repent in order to be saved, but it says both is for the forgiveness of sins.

Now, this verse is a problem for Mr. Slick. And as a matter of fact, on one of his articles, and in one of his videos, he's teaching against the necessity of baptism. He comes to Acts 2 .38, and he says, quote, this verse is a tough one.

Well, it is a tough one for his theology because it blatantly contradicts it. And in verse 40, Peter preaches more words, and it says, be saved from this perverse generation. And then it says, so then those who had received his word were baptized.

It's the same pattern. The reaction of faith to receive the word is baptism. So by the way, so we see that if we're saved through faith, and here Peter is including repentance and baptism, that baptism and repentance is a part of being saved by faith.

It's just a matter of simple hermeneutics. And faith is the expression in verse 41. Now, let's go to 1 Peter 3. Now, it's the same apostle, same man in verse 38 who speaks. Okay, Peter says, in reference to those of the flood, he says, the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah during the construction of the ark in which a few, that is, eight persons were brought safely through the water.

I'm reading from the NASB, and I believe that is a good translation of the Greek, brought safely through the water. Corresponding to that, the water, baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Once again, we have the statement. Baptism now saves you. Now, you have to ask, what would the New Testament have to say to teach that baptism was necessary for salvation, if not the two things that we just read?

If these don't teach it, what would? Baptism saves you, which contradicts Mr. Slick's position, and it affirms what I'm trying to argue for here. Now, it corresponds to the water. They were brought safely through the water.

Well, baptism, you're brought to salvation through the water. No power in the water. It is not the removal of dirt from the flesh. There's no power in the water. This isn't Catholicism, and it ain't magic water, as some people say, but an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

In other words, it's an expression of faith. You see, I believe that we're justified by faith. It's an appeal to God for a good conscience. The sinner, believing in the resurrection and believing that God would justify himself by, or justify the sinner by grace, when he comes out of the water, he knows he's forgiven because he believes what God says, and he has a good conscience.

So baptism is how the alien sinner expresses his faith to God. It's him saying by his act, save me by your grace, and he can come out with a clean conscience. Remember those in Acts chapter two, they had the guilty conscience in verse 37, Acts, what shall we do?

What are they gonna do about their guilty conscience? Peter said, repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins. That'll clear your conscience. It is an expression of faith. Okay, we must hurry on.

Romans chapter six. Now turn your Bibles there. In verse three, it says, or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into his death? Therefore, we have been buried with him through baptism into death.

Now, before I go on, this language is the language of what some call federal headship, others call corporate solidarity. It is the idea of being united under a representative. Jesus Christ is the representative for his people.

All the spiritual blessings that we see in the New Testament that are found in Christ Jesus are how we get into Christ is when our faith moves us to be baptized. It is through baptism that he becomes your representative into Christ Jesus, baptized into his death.

And it says, we are buried with him through baptism into death. Now friends, you cannot be saved without being united in Christ. If he is not your representative, you cannot be saved. And the way to get into Christ, so to speak, is baptism.

You cannot be saved before it. You cannot be saved without it as required by Christ and the apostles. So that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the father, so we too might walk in newness of life, free from sin.

If we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, there's the language united. Certainly we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection. Knowing this, that our old self was crucified with him, baptized into his death.

When were you crucified with Christ? Well, it says into his death. This is through baptism. Now, you will also notice that the form, the mode of the baptism that is necessary is immersion. It's a burial and a raising to life.

Okay, in Ephesians 2, now this is something important. Ephesians 2, it says, God in verse five, made us alive together by grace you have been saved and raised us up with him. So God is doing the uniting.

He's raising us to new life. It's God who's doing this, but when does he do it? In baptism, we just saw that. Colossians 2, 12. Now, pay special attention to this verse. Having been buried with him, Christ, buried with Christ in baptism, in which, in baptism, you were also raised up with him.

That's the new, sorry, that's the new life. Raised up with him through faith. You see, we're justified by faith. Baptism is an act of faith. It's very clear. The burial, the raising to new life, the unity, being united with Christ is in baptism when it is done through faith in the working of God who raised him from the dead.

Now, compare this with 1 Peter 3, 21, by the way. Peter says, baptism now saves you. Paul says, in baptism, raising us to new life or up with him, that's the new life. That's salvation. Peter says, an appeal to God for a good conscience.

That's an expression of faith. Paul says, through faith. Peter says, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Paul says, through faith in the working of God who raised him from the dead. They're teaching the same thing.

And by the way, when you see in Acts 2, which we read in the beginning, where they say, what shall we do? Well, baptism is something you do. Now, it is unbiblical. Popular theology has this idea, and Mr. Slick has said the same thing, that there's nothing you do to be saved.

I would like to see that text that shows us there's nothing we do to be saved. I wanna see that text. Now, I have an idea of some that people use, but I wanna see it because the Bible doesn't teach that.

Peter didn't deny that you do anything. He said, repent and be baptized, which is an expression of faith. Now, let's go to Acts 22, in verse 16. Saul had been killing Christians, and Jesus appears to him on the road to Damascus.

Three days later, Ananias comes, and in verse 16 says, "'Now, why do you delay? "'Get up and be baptized and wash away your sins, "'calling on the name, or on his name.'". Now, these are all in the Aorist tense.

This is all happening at the same time. Be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord, or here, calling on his name. Now, Paul had his sins still three days later. Like Acts 2 38, we see the linkage of having your sins removed with baptism.

Now, in chapter nine, in verse nine, we saw that Paul was waiting for three days, fasting. He was fasting. And in verse 11 of chapter nine, we see that he was praying while waiting for Ananias. Now, so who is he praying to?

Well, he's not well aware that Jesus is God, Yahweh. And no doubt he's praying to Jesus, but he still has his sins, because that's what you gotta do if you're an alien sinner. Now, this term, let's look at this term, calling on his name.

This is from Epikaleo. And this is, calling on the name of the Lord is from the Old Testament. It's linked to worship, prayer, service. It is a representative statement where it is those who's turning to the Lord, calling on the name of the Yahweh, it means to look to him and submit to him for whatever he demands in the context.

For example, in Zephaniah three in verse nine, God says, for then I will give to the people purified lips, that all of them may call on the name of the Lord to serve him shoulder to shoulder. So it's connected with service.

To call upon the name of the Lord in that context was to come to serve him. Interestingly, in Acts 25, in a legal context, where Paul says, I appeal to Caesar, appeal is the same word, Epikaleo. And in order to have his case tried in the court of Caesar, he had to submit to whatever Caesar, the legal system required, which here meant remaining in custody, going through the legal process, whatever it required.

It's the same idea. Now, Mr. Slick has a similar definition of what I'm telling you. I wanna quote from him and I have the source if anybody wants to know about it. He says, Mr. Slick says, quote, to call upon the name of the Lord is to subject oneself to the majesty and holiness of the divinely sovereign God of the universe, unquote.

Well, I agree with that 100%. It means in whatever context to submit yourself to the Lord and whatever it means in context. And for the alien sinner, for Paul, it meant to be baptized and wash away his sins.

The expression of faith of baptism is calling upon the name of the Lord in that context for the alien sinner. It's not merely just prayer. Interestingly, in Acts 2, now pay very special attention so we connect these dots.

It's really beautiful. Peter quoted from Joe in verse 21. He said, and it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Well, what did that mean? Well, they understood. They said, what shall we do?

How do they call upon the name of the Lord? Well, he says, repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins. That's what was told to Paul. That's how Paul called on the name of the Lord. And that's what he told them to do.

This is why, by the way, we see such an urgency of baptism in the New Testament. For example, like the Philippian jailer, he was baptized straight away at the same hour of the night. So there's this urgency in the New Testament because it's significant.

It's necessary for salvation. So what we have seen is that baptism is an act of faith. I believe we're justified by faith because baptism is an act of faith. That's what it says. An appeal to God for a good conscience, buried with him in baptism through faith.

That's what our text says. And I just wanna remind you once again that there is something the alien sinner has to do. That's what Peter says, repent and be baptized. And so I just wanna know the text that would say otherwise.

It's an expression of faith. We have clear verses that say, it saves us for the forgiveness of sins. I have to ask, I asked it already. I'll ask it again. What in the world would the Bible have to say to teach it?

It is a simple matter of hermeneutics that if we're justified by faith and yet baptism is acquired, then that means baptism is an expression of faith. God is the one uniting us. We're united in Christ in our baptism when it is done through faith.

And that's my time. Thank you.

Justification by Faith Alone and the Sufficiency of Christ

Okay, you're on mute. Thank you, I'll start my timer as well here in a sec. All right. Okay. So as Mr. Richardson said, no animosity, yet he is echoing the same thing I'm saying. He's teaching a false gospel.

And if you believe what he says, you're gonna be damned to eternal hell fire. And the reason is, is because he is denying justification by faith. He's saying that justification by faith occurs when you do something.

And he's saying that you have to be doing something. He said, quote, the Bible does not teach we don't have to do anything to be saved unless I misheard him. That's what he says. So we have to understand that Philippians 1 .29 says that God is the one who grants that we believe.

And Philippians, that's Philippians 1 .29. And second Timothy 2 .25, God grants that we have repentance. God is the one who grants both of these things to us. We don't have to do anything because Jesus did everything.

What he is saying is that the blood of Christ and faith in Christ is not sufficient to save you of your sins. The question I'm gonna be asking him later is, are we justified by faith when we have faith?

Are we not justified by faith when we have faith? The Bible says in Romans 5 .1, having therefore been justified by faith. It doesn't say by faith in a ceremony, by faith in baptism. It says by faith.

Now the debate topic is this, is water baptism. I don't know why my mic just muted, but it did. Okay, can you hear me? Okay. So the debate topic is, is water baptism by immersion necessary for salvation?

He says, yes, logically speaking, that means you cannot be saved unless you're immersed in water for the forgiveness of your sins. That's what he wants to say. You have to be baptized by immersion in water.

That would mean that all babies who die in birth, during birth, right after birth and abortion go to hell. It would mean that all the people who die on deathbeds, and I know I used to work at a hospital and it does happen.

People who have tubes in their throats. I've talked to the chaplain of the hospital who went to the same church as I, and I asked him, do people receive Christ on their deathbeds? And he says, oh yes, they do.

But you know what? Mr. Richardson is gonna be saying, I'm sorry, but they have to go to hell. And the reason they have to go to hell is because they didn't perform the ceremony of baptism. They didn't get baptized.

They didn't get dunked in water. And so their faith in Christ is useless. Their faith in Christ does not save them. They are not justified by faith, Romans 5 .1. No, they are going to hell. Their faith in Christ is not enough.

Now, in Acts chapter, excuse me, in Acts 16, 30, 31, the jailer said to Paul and Silas, sirs, what must I do to be saved? They said, believe in the Lord Jesus and you'll be saved, you and your household.

That's what the answer was. Was it, you have to get baptized? Nope. Paul said in first Corinthians one, that God sent him to preach the gospel, not to baptize. The gospel is what saves per first Corinthians 15, one through four.

It's the gospel that saves us. The gospel is that Jesus did everything on the cross, died on the cross, rose from the dead three days later, and that we're justified by faith. That's what it is. Now he went to Acts 2 .38.

Now the problem with Acts 2 .38 is real simple. It's not a formula for salvation because faith is not mentioned in there. Faith is not mentioned, nor is water mentioned. Who says it's water baptism? Not a serious discussion to have later on.

But the actual issue here is if it's a formula for salvation, we have two problems. One, faith is not mentioned in there. And two, it says, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Well, what is the gift of the Holy Spirit?

The gift of the Holy Spirit is the charismatic movement. And we know that from Acts 10, 44 through 48, where it says that people were speaking in tongues and they were glorifying God because the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon them.

That's what the baptism of the Holy Spirit is, pouring. It's pouring. Just as John the Baptist baptized with water, pouring. So you'll be baptized with the Holy Spirit. And it's always by pouring. It's always, that's how it's referred to.

So in Acts 10, 44 through 48, the Holy Spirit had been poured forth upon the Gentiles or speaking in tongues or glorifying God. And Peter says, can we refuse water for them to be baptized? Who have received the Holy Spirit?

Just as we have. But Mr. Richardson would be saying, no, they're still in a state of damnation. They would die before they got baptized. They could be walking to the baptismal font to get immersed in water.

Trip, hit their head on a stone, die. Sorry, you go to hell. Why? Because you're not justified by faith. Are you justified by faith when you have faith or when not have faith? See, faith, when you're justified by faith, it's because you have faith.

Not by faith in a ceremony, not by faith in baptism, not by faith in communion, not by faith and anything. As all the cults teach and what Roman Catholicism teaches, and he's no different than Roman Catholics in that he's teaching that baptism is necessary for salvation.

Paragraph 20, 68 of the Catholic Catechism, that you obtain salvation by faith, baptism, and the observance of the commandments. So they require baptism there as he does. And I know since he's in Church of Christ, he will teach that you can lose your salvation.

Then we have another debate there. So Acts 2 .38, he went to 1 Peter 3 .21, which I always think is a very interesting verse. And I'm sure he's read my material and did not respond to my material on that, what I actually said on it.

But here's what it says here. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God. Corresponding to what? Now he says, it's the water. Well, let's look at this.

Who once were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is eight persons, were brought safely through the water. Brought safely through what?

The death. Water is what killed them. Water is what killed people. It was the means of judgment. Now, so corresponding to what? What saved Noah? Was it the water or was it the ark? I remember the ark had one door and they entered in through the door and that one door was closed.

Jesus says he is the door. They entered into the ark and they were saved from the judgment of God upon the unbelievers. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you. Corresponding to what? It's the ark.

It's the issue of faith, which is why Paul says, excuse me, why Peter says, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, not this issue of the water on the body, but an appeal to God for a good conscience.

You see, that's how he's using the term baptism there. That's what's going on. And he needs to address this. His idea that water is what it's referring to just doesn't work from the context because it's not the water that saved Noah.

It was obviously the ark that they entered by faith. He says he wants to see a text where it says if you don't have to do anything to be saved, I would think he'd know his Bible better. He's dead seriously.

Romans 4, 5, now to the one, as it says, but to the one who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. To the one who does not work, but believes, his faith is credited as righteousness.

There's 613 commandments in the Old Testament, all kinds of commandments. There's judicial, there's legal, there's sacrificial, there's moral laws or requirements. There's all kinds of stuff, including giving charity, including loving God and loving your neighbor.

And all of these are summed up by Jesus in Matthew 22, 37 and 39, respectively, when he says, love God and love your neighbor. This is the summation of the law, Matthew 22, 40. This is what he says. Now this summarizes all the law of what has to be done, what you got to work, everything and anything within it, because James 2, 10 says, if you keep the law and you stumble in one point, you're guilty of all.

And Deuteronomy 27, 26 says, you have to keep all of the law, which Paul reflects in Galatians 3, 10. And if you don't, you're cursed. So when Paul talks, he says, the one who does not work, you're not doing anything.

To the one who does not work, but believes, his faith is credited as righteousness. Now notice what's going on here. It's a critical verse. The one who does not work, but believes, doesn't do anything, but believes.

What is credited in his righteousness as his faith? So when I asked the question later, are we justified by faith when we have faith? The answer according to Paul is, yeah, yeah. To the one who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

So the one who does not work, but believes. When you believe your faith is credited as righteousness, there's the proof right there from the word of God that water baptism by immersion is not necessary for salvation.

Incidentally, Jesus was sprinkled as another topic. Now, that's the verse he asked for. That's the verse I showed. That's the verse he's gonna have to respond to later. He's gonna have to go to Romans chapter four, verse five, and demonstrate how that verse means, no, you have to get water baptized in order to be saved.

And how he has to say, because he said it's a work that you do. I'm not trying to misrepresent him. I hope that I got him right there. That you have to do this thing in order to be saved. You have to be baptized by immersion, immersion in order to be saved.

You have to. In other words, you're not justified by faith. It's a clever twist of words to say, you're justified by faith when you do something. Well, they're not justified by faith when you have faith, are you?

That's what it means to be justified by faith. As Romans five, excuse me, four, five says, to the one who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

That right there refutes his whole false, damnable, demonic doctrine that requires a ceremony and a work to be saved. No different than the Mormons and the Jehovah's witnesses, the Roman Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox.

He's adding a work to salvation. I don't hate him, but I hate the false gospels he's preaching and teaching because he puts a requirement upon you to be saved. Again, Acts 16, 30, they ask, what must we do to be saved?

What does Paul the apostle say? Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you in your household, you'll be saved, you and your household. Believe, that's what he says you must do. In fact, in Acts 10, 43, of him as Jesus, all the prophets bear witness that through his name, everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.

Everyone who believes in him, everyone who believes. Well, then the man on the deathbed who has tubes in him, I've seen it. And he receives Christ. You walk up, the chaplain walks up, sir, do you know you're a sinner?

He nods because that's all he can do. I have seen the fear of death in people's faces in hospitals. And he says, do you wanna receive Christ? A man, this chaplain gives the gospel, who Jesus is, the Trinity, the hypostatic union, incarnation, whatever's necessary, gives a good presentation of the gospel.

So you wanna receive Christ? The man nods. Do you have faith in what Jesus did in the cross? The man nods, it's all he can do. So good, and not that a prayer, some formula of prayer is what saves us, but the idea is the man, the chaplain says, let's pray.

And this poor sinner, ready to meet the maker, receives Christ by faith. Then he dies. Mr. Richardson would say he's damned to eternal hellfire because he didn't get dunked in water. That would mean that faith in Christ is not enough to save you.

That would mean that believing the Lord Jesus and you will be saved is not true. It would mean that for the one who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

It would mean that his faith is not credited as righteousness. So he goes to various verses, Acts 22, 16, wash away your sins, be baptized. Yeah, calling on the name of the Lord, which is a power of authority and prayer and worship.

You can go to Zechariah 13, nine, Psalm 116, eight, it's prayer to God, it's the appeal to God for who he is and what he can do. This is why it's not an appeal, excuse me, it's an appeal of a clean conscience in first Peter 3, 21, not this being dunked in water that saves you.

What we have here is Mr. Richardson condemning people to eternal damnation who don't get dunked in water. He's condemning people to hell, all infants who die because it's necessary. Necessary means there is no exception.

If he then says, oh, there's an exception, then he's lost the debate. He's conceded the title of the debate, which is that water baptism by immersion is necessary. If it's necessary, there can be no exclusion.

There can be no exception. That must mean that all babies who die go to hell and all people who die without being baptized go to hell, but then what mode of baptism? Then he would also have to say that anybody on a deathbed who receives Christ and trust in Christ to be justified by faith and ask Jesus to forgive him of his sins, doesn't get immersed in water, goes to eternal flame because his faith in Christ isn't enough.

His faith and his trust in Jesus isn't enough. No, he's gotta do something more. See, Jesus said in John 19, 30, it's finished. He rose from the dead later, proving that what he said was true. He didn't say to come and be baptized in order to be forgiven of your sins and that you're not justified by faith, no.

I can go into other verses that even Jesus talked about this very clearly, but the issue here is, folks, are you gonna put your faith in a ceremony along with your faith in Christ to be saved or in Christ alone and everything in him alone?

Are you gonna put your trust in being dunked in water because that would be the thing then that saves you, not your faith in Christ? Because if it's your faith in Christ that saves you, then you're saved by faith when you have faith in Christ.

What he's doing is denying the truth of the gospel, and he's preaching a false and damnable heresy, and he needs to repent, and all who hold his position need to repent as well. All right, done.

The Cross-Examination on Faith, Works, and Logical Necessity

Okay, for clarity, I think you may have said it, but people can be asking questions along the way. Correct. Okay, just so people can hear. And then our moderator.

Is supposed to record those questions. If you have a question, say for Matt or for AK, and then our moderator, Ernie, what he will do is he will record those, and then in the Q &A section, we may take a break before it, five-minute break or something like that, then he will feed the questions in the text chat.

All right?

Okay. Okay, people, so go ahead and ask your questions when you have one. All right, let me start my timer. Okay, 10 minutes. I gotta be selective with what I answer. That's the way of debates. Remember, you guys could always bring the issues back up in your questions.

Okay. What did we hear from Mr. Slick? Well, we heard a lot is you're justified by faith, therefore not baptism. As a matter of fact, he said, he said, you're saved by faith when you believe. That's called begging the question.

Because of course, he's assuming that baptism isn't necessary. That's what we're debating, of course. But the argument, well, you're saved by faith when you believe, assumes the very thing we're here to prove.

In other words, if I can establish that in the New Testament, baptism was acquired, then you're not saved by faith before water baptism. You're saved by faith when you believe. So you can't just keep saying, and he does, well, you're justified by faith.

If you gotta be baptized, you're not justified by faith. Begging the question, begging the question. Because I just demonstrated from the text that you're saved when you get baptized, because that's what it says.

Okay, now, he said, I'm denying justification by faith. Well, again, you just hear him say that every time and you know he's begging the question. He said that God grants faith, Philippians, and grants repentance as well.