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Welcome back to Coffee with a Calvinist. This is a daily conversation about scripture, culture, and media from a Reformed perspective. Get your Bible and coffee ready and prepare to engage today's topic.
Here's your host, Pastor Keith Foskey.
Welcome back to Coffee with a Calvinist. My name is Keith Foskey and I am a Calvinist. Today we have a special episode. We're going to be interviewing Rachel White, the founder and president of Her Song, and Janice Tucker, a survivor of human trafficking.
When we hear that word, human trafficking, a lot of thoughts go through our minds. We have a lot of ideas that come to us, whether it be from the movies or from television or from some kind of media that we have heard, but very few of us have any real knowledge of what it means when we talk about the subject of human trafficking.
So I'm very thankful to have this conversation today. I think it's an important conversation and I am blessed to be able to be joined by these two ladies. Hello, ladies. How are you?
Wonderful. So good to be here with you.
Well, I'm glad that you're here and I thank you, Janice, particularly for helping set this up. Thank you. I'm glad to be here too. Yeah. Again, you are, Ms. Rachel, you are the president and the founder of Her Song.
Can you tell our listeners, when I say Her Song, people probably have never heard what that is. Can you tell us who you are and what you guys do?
Of course. Happy to. Her Song is a ministry that was founded in 2013 in response to the needs of particularly sex trafficking survivors in our community. I learned that Florida ranked third out of 50 states in reports of human trafficking, and I heard some stories that really gripped my heart.
And as a believer, I knew that I couldn't just remain silent, that I was called into this space to make a difference. And so Her Song was born at that time in 2013. And over the years, what we've developed is a beautiful residential program for young ladies to come in and just have unconditional love and heal their hearts, but also be equipped to live out a fruitful life.
And that's the gospel, isn't it? God rescuing us and changing our heart and reorienting us and equipping us to then go out. And so that's what we're doing at Her Song. We do a lot of victim outreach in our community, helping to identify victims that might be unidentified otherwise.
And also, we've recently got into the prevention space of working with the local public schools. We've been there for about four or five years now with a curriculum helping students understand what human trafficking is and hopefully building in some prevention there to keep them from being lured online by people that want to exploit them and hurt them, and also just equipping their parents and equipping teachers and educators to also see those signs of trafficking.
So in a nutshell, that's what we're doing at Her Song. Awesome. Now, what you were just saying about.
Equipping students. Particularly, now, is that in the public schools that you're being allowed to.
Do that? That's correct. We are in the local public schools, this county only. We are in conversations with other counties. And also, the state of Florida did pass a unanimous ruling for prevention education in every classroom, every grade, every year, K -12.
So we've been in that space working, collaborating, supporting, because we feel like educating our children and helping them prevent human trafficking in their own lives is really, really important. Okay.
Now, when we.
Talk about human trafficking, I know that some of my questions are going to be based on a conversation that we had prior to the show. So I want to go back to a question, because.
It's Her Song. So is it particular to women? Yes. We actually are targeting women. We know that across the world, seven in ten human trafficking victims are female. And we also know that one in four are children.
And many of those are girls. And so we exist really to, our vision is a world where every girl is free. So we are very much targeting that victim of trafficking that's female.
Okay. And this may be obvious, but the term Her Song, where did that name come from?
Well, that came from a lot of prayer on my knees, a lot of fasting and praying and, you know, blubbering before the Lord, because I knew he was calling me to something, but I didn't quite understand it at the time, because I was like a lot of other people that thought, oh, trafficking is happening over there in Cambodia and these other countries.
I didn't recognize it was happening right here in our backyard. And so it really began with a lament and a crying out to the Lord and a broken heart over the pain and suffering of human trafficking victims right here in our community, right here in the United States.
And, you know, obviously God was changing my heart and reorienting my mind. And I said to the Lord, you know, what is this ministry that you're calling me to? And he sent me to Psalm 30, 11 and 12. And it says, you have turned my mourning into joyful dancing.
You have removed my sackcloth and clothed me with joy that I might sing praises to you all the days of my life. And so, you know, God showed me that the picture through that scripture of the work that he wanted to do in the lives of trafficking victims is that these people were mourning and grieving their very life and existence and that his heart for them, no surprise, that's the gospel, was to turn it around, turn their grief into joyful dancing, give them praise, give them a new heart, a new song.
And so that's how her song was born.
Excellent, excellent. Many of you who are listeners are familiar with our church and our ministry and know that we as a church have long supported a men's ministry called Set Free. And many of us have been praying at Sovereign Grace Family Church for an opportunity to be able to support a women's ministry, and particularly a women in crisis, because that's really what Set Free does.
It takes in men who are in crisis, but it's men only, because it's hard to have a co-ed, live-in ministry without all of the problems that would obviously be associated with that. So as a church, we have prayed for this and we have wanted to know where the avenues of ministry are, and I know there are other churches that have those same desires.
And I don't know who everyone is out there listening to this program from other churches, maybe not very many, but if you're in the Jacksonville area, we have this ministry here. How could a church be a part of what you're doing?
What are the best ways a church can be a part of her song and support the.
Ministry? That's a great question, and we love our church partners, and we couldn't do what we do without them. We so believe in the power of prayer. Prayer for us as an organization in this space and working every day over our staff, but in particular over the survivors, because they have so much courage to take a step and come into a program and commit a year or two years of their life to their recovery, and they need lots of prayer surrounding them.
So I think prayer is key. I think volunteers, while we're still a very small organization, we need things like yard work. Sometimes we might need some fresh paint on the inside of our office, or sometimes we might be hosting an event, and we just need smiling faces at the door to greet people or welcome people.
So there's a lot of ways that churches can get involved with volunteering, but I think one of the things that we can really do to have major impact is we can learn about human trafficking. We can learn about how it's happening in our community, in our world, and I when we understand that, it becomes evident the role of the church when it comes to this issue, because we are needed.
The gospel is needed. I tell people all the time, emotional and psychological trauma is a mission field white unto harvest. These are people dying to know that God loves them. Dying to know that somebody with skin on also loves them, and I think we have a tremendous opportunity not only to educate the church, but for the church to then be deployed, not just in our community, but around the world, to be helping hands, to provide meals, to maybe stock our pantry every once in a while, or help us when we're opening a new home.
We need toasters, and we need blenders, and we need forks, and we need towels, and we need sheets, and things like that. So there's some really, really practical ways as well.
And I find that when I'm going to our church, and I'm saying, here's a ministry we want to support. You know, we support The Nest. I don't know if you know what The Nest is. It's a crisis pregnancy center.
It's for women who are concerned with they're pregnant, and perhaps they're single, or have other outstanding issues. And so we support them, and sometimes it's difficult to know what to do. They do a thing called Baby Bottle Boomerang, where every year they give us a baby bottle on Mother's Day.
We fill it with money and give it back to them on Father's Day. Every family gets a baby bottle. Every family's expected to give as much as they can, and we give that back. So that's a practical way that we would support that ministry.
And what you're saying is sort of the same thing. You guys have some practical needs. If we as a church, or any other church, wanted to say, okay, we have people that want to do that. We have people who want to paint.
We have people who want to do collections. How would they get a hold of you? How would they partner with you in a practical way? Would it be through the pastor? Would it be through the elders? How would you do that?
Well, we'll just.
Answer your call. Whoever you are, you can call us. You can find our number on our website, hersongjacks .org. You can reach out to us locally, 904 -513 -0203, and just let us know you'd like to get involved.
And so that's how it's done. That's great. And do me a favor, very quickly, let's do that really slow, hersongjacks .org. And the number again? 904 -513 -0203. Okay. Well, now that we know.
A little bit more about you, I want to take a step back and talk for a few more minutes about the subject, the actual subject of human trafficking. Because as I said in my introduction, I think that that is a space where there is an awful lot of confusion.
And for lack of a better way of describing it, I think most of us have a movie view of it. Janice, you and I have talked about this, the concept of the movie Taken, where the person is stolen from their home, sold into some kind of a foreign place.
And the movie Taken, of course, is about saving that person, but not the way you guys are saving. We're not sending Navy SEALs out to do this. So tell me what do you think are the most confusing and maybe the most misunderstood parts of human trafficking?
And this is for either of you if you want to.
Okay, you want me to answer? Okay. So I think one of the things that is, and I mean this is even coming from a victim before, I was a victim before I became a survivor, and I was still in that victim mentality.
But believing that I was a victim, that I had chose this, that this wasn't somebody that was, you know, coursing me to do these things. So I think a lot of the times people think that people that are in these situations are choosing it, and that is completely false.
Okay. So, and the people themselves think that it's their fault. Absolutely. I mean,.
The first time somebody came to me and said, you know, you're a victim of human trafficking, I said, no, you're wrong. You know, because the traffickers are so good at manipulating and, you know, brainwashing and becoming a person to where the victim is completely dependent upon them, but in the victim's mind, that trafficker loves them.
So you don't see yourself as somebody who is being used by another person, you know, because at a time when you're the, that's the only person that loves you at that moment, even though their love is a toxic, sick, abusive love.
Yeah. But that's all you're receiving. So, you know, I guess the mental and the psychological dynamic is completely, you know, manipulated. Yeah. And so I didn't believe I was a victim, you know, and it took a lot of time and of me resting and being around, you know, the staff at her song, kind of like my brain and the fog that was just in my mind to be lifted to recognize the situation that I was actually in, you know, and it was a harsh reality at first, you know, because I don't want to believe it.
And I mean, even, you know, my trafficker who was arrested and charged with that, I still didn't want to believe that that's what it was. Because, you know, you have this street mentality still, too. And on the streets, that's a sign of weakness.
Sure. You know what I mean? Yeah. So that was hard for a long time. So, you know, a lot of girls that I have encountered that are still in those early stages after being rescued,.
You know, they don't believe they're a victim. Yeah. You know? Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, when you, from what you just said, based on your experience, would you say that what people think of as human trafficking in regard to people being slaves or people being chained, things like that, is that that's not the norm that you've experienced?
And it's not saying that that.
Doesn't happen, because it absolutely happens. But, you know, for the most part, was the door locked? No. But was I, did I feel like I had an option? No. It's almost an emotional mental slavery. Right.
Versus physical chains. Yeah. Versus physical chains of actually being chained into a room. There is that psychological, that mental, and that emotional, you know,.
Like bond that they have over you. You think there's people around us that are being trafficked that we see and don't even realize it? Absolutely. And is there, obviously we have to be careful not to try to be, you know, Joe and Jane policeman going out and solving the problems ourselves, you know, but what are signs that you look for having been through it?
Are there things that you say this is, maybe I should follow up with this person or something? Is there, is there, is there any anything that you could, that you would recommend or just not? Maybe I'm asking.
The wrong question. I don't know. So for me, and I think, you know, because I don't want to give wrong, you know, statistic, you know, numbers or anything like that. I know for me, if a woman, a young lady at any age is on any type of drugs, the probability of her being in some type of situation where she is exposed to somebody trafficking her or, you know, eventually being.
Trafficked is very high. Okay. Is it because the drugs create the dependency and the dependency creates the... Correct. The vulnerability. Yeah, absolutely. So, for instance, like with the subject of something like, we often think of like prostitution, someone who controls the prostitutes.
The term usually is pimp. Not a very nice term. It's not a legal word. He's a trafficker,.
That's a legal word. But that's still, that's still trafficking, right? Yeah. And so trafficking.
Has three parties. There's a victim, there's a buyer, and there's a trafficker, right? And so there, it is possible to be in prostitution. And yes, those people are worthy of services, and they probably need help, and they need support, and they need services.
But trafficking is, is a legal term, right? And it's defined by law. So the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, people can Google that if they want to go deeper in understanding, but it really lays out the definition for trafficking.
Yes. And so there's two major or extreme forms of trafficking, according to that law. And one is labor trafficking, which is when a person or group of persons controls another person using force, fraud, or coercion to labor, to work in a factory, a hotel, as a house slave, something like that.
Like slavery. Yes, exactly. It exactly is slavery. That's why we call it modern day slavery, actually. And then sex trafficking is the same, except that we're, that trafficker is using force, fraud, or coercion to compel that person to commit acts of sex, or to push them out into the commercial sex trade.
And I will say that if you're under the age of 18, there's no force, fraud, or coercion required. Yeah, because it's... Exactly. Because a child is dependent, you know, no matter what. And so I think it's important, you know, and also just from a stepping way back and having more of a global perspective on trafficking, we have to keep in mind that not only is this happening all over the world, and yeah, sex trafficking is profitable.
It is predominantly an underground criminal industry. But labor trafficking is really a legitimate, usually happening in legitimate businesses. You know, it's happening through farming. It's happening through the garment industry.
It's happening in many, many ways. And so across the world, we also know that people are being trafficked for organs sometimes. That is a real thing. I actually worked with two ladies that were brought into this country for their organs.
They were actually rescued before that happened. But also there's child marriage, and that is a form of trafficking as well. So having more of that global perspective can help us kind of see the different facets of trafficking.
But all of it is evil. That's the bottom line. It is all evil. It is all absolutely 100 degrading to the human body, mind and spirit. And most of these people are traumatized. You know, slavery isn't just something that's happening on the outside to them.
It has a way of getting inside, which is I think what Janice was referring to. And so the trauma oftentimes that people are enduring is changing their brains, their bodies, their beliefs, and their behaviors.
And so hopefully this is like really stimulating people's minds about how the church can be there, how the church can be a hospital for these people, but how the church can also work on strengthening families.
You know, how we can help those people in our community that are vulnerable. You know, the single moms or, you know, the children maybe that we're intersecting with through like VBS or something like that.
And maybe they look like they're neglected or they're not well cared for, or we just need to care. You know, we just need to get involved and not turn a blind eye. And I think Proverbs is really clear to us.
It's like, rescue the perishing basically, and don't act like you didn't know anything about this. You can't walk away and say, I didn't see this. And then the next thing it says is that we are all held accountable and we will be rewarded or not, right, for the things that we've done.
And so I think that part of, we have to keep in mind that, you know, Jesus is coming back with his reward, right? And what will we have to show for our faith? Faith is, yes, it's intellectual and it's so important that we study the Bible and we know it.
And, you know, it's just an endless treasure trove of wisdom and so many truths and it's filled with truth. I mean, it's God's living word, you know, but our faith has to sink down into our hearts and become active in the world.
I think James is really clear about that, you know, that our faith, show me faith without works, you know, it's dead. And so we have to think about ways that we can allow the gospel to so permeate who we are and how we think and what we do on a daily basis that we are unwilling to turn away from what's happening, you know, all around us.
And the thing is, is that once you have eyes to see it, you can't unsee it. So we've got to educate people.
Yeah. And helping people understand that they are the Imago Dei. They're the image of God. And that is something I think that we, as a culture, have abandoned. The rampant abortion and now a push for assisted suicide are just two examples of the extreme willingness for us to see people as being less than dignified, less than image bearers.
Because if we're willing to murder the most weak and the smallest among us, the children, and then to see our elderly be essentially pushed away. And I think that that's just part of the culture of the selfish culture.
It is. And there's no value in human dignity. And so absolutely. And you mentioned James. James is often referred to as the Proverbs of the New Testament. Right. Because it puts practicality to faith.
And you show me your faith, and I'll show you my faith by what I do. Exactly. And so I think that there's a lot of wisdom and a lot of value there. Now, we haven't really talked about this, but I did want to, since we've gone back and forth, would Her Song be a, is it a Christian organization?
How do you define yourself in that regard?
I would say we are people of dependent faith on the Lord. We are motivated by our faith. All of our practices are informed by our faith. And we are a ministry to all people.
Okay. But you're not a church. We are not a church.
Don't identify as that. No, we do not identify as a church. We work with many kinds of churches in order to reach the women and the young ladies in our community that need our help.
Absolutely. And one of the, that leads me to where I want to go, and this is going to start drawing us to a close. And that is, I understand. Recently you have partnered with the Tim Tebow Foundation.
Can you tell us about that and what brought that about and what you hope to accomplish.
Through that? Yes. Well, we're just absolutely thrilled with this new partnership that we have. It's been in the making for probably about two years now, 18 months to two years. And it's like you're running a race, you know, and you're going in this direction and we're running hard, following our calling, you know, chasing the Lord and His will and His plans and His works that He wants to do here on earth.
And we just looked over and there was somebody else running the same race. And so it's kind of like a marriage of sorts. And we are on the same mission to rescue precious lives, to help as many children and young ladies as we can that have experienced trafficking, to help boys and men too.
We're on a mission to open up homes all over the world. We actually do have six homes in other countries and we've got two here in Jacksonville and we're ready for rapid expansion across the United States because we got holes in the boat, people.
We can't, we can't plug the holes fast enough in the gaps that are there. And so this has been an awesome partnership. We are just praying a lot and making great plans. And I think one point of application for the church really in this partnership with Hersong and the Tim Tebow Foundation is to join the rescue team.
You can go to the timtebowfoundation .org, their website, and look into the rescue team. And that rescue team has three different areas that you can join. You can become an advocate and we'll be feeding you lots of good content about human trafficking so you can understand it and share it with others and we can just spread that awareness.
The other thing you can do is become a prayer warrior and we'll be feeding you specific prayer requests from all of our anti-trafficking organizations around the world. We'll let you know when we're about to go in and rescue a bunch of kids so you can pray God's covering and protection over us.
And the other way you can join is as a defender and that's just a financial contributor. That's just somebody who says, hey I want to come alongside and I believe in what you're doing and we know that you've got to pay good people to do this work and we're going to help you.
We're going to help pay for those homes, we're going to help pay for food and clothing for these children, for Bibles in their hands, and counselors that can come alongside. And with whatever sacrificial gift we can give, we want to give to this work because we're snatching people from the kingdom of darkness and we're pulling them into the kingdom of light and that is worthy work.
And so that really summarizes our partnership with them and so they're with us and we're with them and we're really hoping to make a significant indelible imprint on the world in this work. Amen. Well as we begin to close out the show,.
Before I give my traditional closing, I would like to once again have an opportunity to ask you to give us the website for HRSAWM, the phone number, and then can you give me that information the Tim Tebow information again because I like that idea that people can go on the website and can become immediate help.
They can become immediate partners in whatever way and like you said whether it be through prayer or whether it be through actual financial donations. So if you would give us again your information and that information and then I'm going to bring us to a.
Close. Yes, happy to do that. You can find Her Song at hersongjacks .org. You can reach us at our office at 904 -513 -0203 and we'll be happy to speak with you. And then also if you want to join the Rescue Team with the Tim Tebow Foundation, you can go to timtebowfoundation .org and click.
On Rescue Team. Awesome, awesome. Thank you. Well Rachel, thank you so much for coming on the program today and Janice, Janice thank you for coming and thank you for introducing me to Rachel and to Her Song and I am truly prayerful that this will begin a beneficial relationship and that we'll be able to in some way come alongside of you guys and if nothing else be here to pray for you and encourage you.
Well thank you for listening today to Coffee with a Calvinist. I hope that this has been a show that has been an encouragement to you and has taught you something about human trafficking and especially about what we can do in our city of Jacksonville to partner with people who are ministering in this area and seeking to make a difference for people who are suffering in this particular situation.
Again, I want to thank you for listening to Coffee with a Calvinist. My name is Keith Foskey and I have been your Calvinist. May.
God bless you. Thank you for listening to today's episode of Coffee with a Calvinist. If you enjoyed the program, please take a moment to subscribe and provide us feedback. We'd love to hear your comments and questions and may even engage with them in a future episode.
As you go about your day, remember this, Jesus Christ came to save sinners. All who come to Him in repentance and faith will find Him to be a perfect Savior. He is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through Him.
May God be with you.