June 15, 2022 Show with Gabriel Rench on “A Biblically Informed Christian Response to the Current Financial Crisis” PLUS Dr. James R. White on “Further Reflections on King James Only-ism & Confessional Bibliology”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

It's iron sharpens iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us.

Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris

Arnzen.

Good Afternoon.

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

Lake City, Florida.

And the rest of humanity Living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens

iron radio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 15th

day of June 2022.

I am thrilled to have two returning guests today for the first half hour

of the program.

We will feature Gabriel Wrench a host at cross politics studios As

our guest and he will be addressing the theme a biblically informed Christian response To

the current financial crisis and then for the remaining 90 minutes of the program our

second guest will be Dr. James R white author of numerous books including the King James only

controversy and Apologist at Alpha and Omega ministries, and we're going to be addressing further

reflections on King James only ism and confessional Bibliology, but first

Gabe wrench actually if you want to be technical about it.

This will be Gabe's first Appearance as a guest on iron sharpens iron radio because

the first time he joined us.

He was actually serving as a co -host and as I said He's a host at cross politics studios and we were

addressing a biblically informed Christian response to the current financial crisis.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the first time as a guest Gabriel wrench.

Hey, thank you.

Chris.

It's my pleasure brother and Please tell us

about cross politics studios.

Yeah,

so show

podcast.

Christians.

Christians

need to better

learn how to apply

the Bible to politics.

Everything Paul begin.

I hosted with my pastor Toby Humphrey and my friend who's a filmmaker David Shannon.

His his Stage name is chocolate Knox.

Give him the black church or he died.

Yes, I have often thought about giving myself a nickname the vanilla David Shannon,

but.

And if Anybody wants to find out more about cross politic go to cross politic calm

cross politic calm.

Well as everybody with a Particle of a brain is fully

aware.

Our nation the United States that is because this is a global program but the United States is in the midst of a very

serious financial crisis and you wanted to Jump on the program today

to specifically address how you believe a biblically informed Christian should to

respond to these things and so exactly.

Other than the fact that this is a fact that we're going through a financial crisis.

What was this?

What was the reason that this compelled you?

To come on the program more than any other topic.

So

what's

going

on right

in front of

the problems

right

in front of us.

So that's why I think

the apply the Bible to the practical areas of our lives.

Then of our life and that

now.

Why don't you start by giving us examples of how?

People in general.

Whether they be the unregenerate or even Christians.

Or.

Wrongly respond to an issue like a financial crisis because we who are Christians are not

perfect yet.

We do sin on this earth and we do on many occasions.

Very often it's because of one's worldview one's

theological roots but sometimes even the most theologically sound person can.

Be way out and left field in the way they respond to a crisis.

So what are some of the wrong ways people?

Respond to a financial crisis specifically the first

the first one isn't

really an

order per se.

But the

first

one is

we respond in

fear.

We see

the

Bible

has

tried to talk that God

has

given us very important.

I think the other sponsor bad response and all this is we get partisan.

And what I mean by that is where we say hey, look, this is all the Democrats fault.

And the Democrats are driving.

It's their fault that inflation is happening.

It's their fault that high gas prices are happening.

And I I think you could probably find specific areas.

I think you can't.

I can't where you can find specific areas.

Where you're where you think okay.

You're talking about the you're talking about the corona virus quote -quote pandemic.

And by the way, I want to interject here I didn't Mention this in the beginning.

But there may be many people in our audience scratching their heads saying where have I heard that name Gabriel

Wrench?

Well, you were arrested if I'm not mistaken in Moscow, Idaho nearby

where your congregation is.

Because just merely because you were Conducting an outside him sing is

am I right on this?

That's correct.

Oh down our

economy.

And then

spiritual songs and no

mask mandate

and.

They arrested me because I wasn't standing six feet apart from my friend and while not well, I'm not wearing a

mask.

They arrested me.

Well, and they cited me as a misdemeanors.

Thousand dollar fine up to six years and six months in jail and I won my civil

rights.

The City Council violated

my first amendment court

against my city

and just very quickly because I don't want to derail the conversation.

Were all of these police officers involved wholeheartedly.

Arresting you with enthusiasm.

Or were they like, oh man, I really don't want to do this, but I got out I'll lose my job if I don't blah

blah blah.

Or you know, were they gung -ho.

You know.

Okay, let's get back

to.

Your your I think we were left off is that even Republicans were involved in shutting down our economy

in 2020.

That's

correct.

The second

response is Christians, I think.

Because we're mayor maybe a little narrow -sighted on that.

We tend to maybe blame one party.

Maybe we blame the Republicans.

Maybe you're bringing the Democrats.

We've laid blame on one party, but reality is Inflation right now has largely been driven

By the shutdown in 2020.

So the supply chain being broken in 2020 and then the stimulus money that was voted on three trillion

dollars of stimulus money was voted on

under the

can be by you also

choked supply lines like we did in 2020 and 2021 and then you print more money on top of it.

Well, that is the exact formula.

What creates inflation.

There's an economy that goods and services being sold?

Which means everything costs more everything goes up.

And so I don't want to blame one party.

I think you can specifically maybe blame certain aspects over one.

Let's say administration over the other.

That's fine but really the Inflation is being driven by both parties

how they handle the pandemic and then how they've handled stimulus money.

We want to be all want to be Christians that can

criticize people in our own camp.

You know criticize maybe people even in our own political camp.

But and make sure we're honestly assessing the situation which I think helps Christians better deal and better understand.

Okay, how do we get out of this mess?

Well, the answer is not voting off of the answer not voting

Democrats in office the answer is repenting of thinking that our Politicians could

create and print money out of thin air and act like God's in this whole situation and solve our problems.

Financially by printing money out of thin air and that's not if we want to be thinking Christians and how we think about.

And how we respond to the current economic challenges.

And being honest.

I'm assuming you would agree.

When we recognize.

Our.

Favorite party if you will.

That they were also a part of the problem and not

exclusively those on the left.

When we recognize things like that I would assume it helps to

Reduce the likelihood of burning hatred.

Toward those with whom we disagree politically obviously, I think it's

very right for Christians to hate positions and to hate

policies but to be very

Visceral and vociferous in our spewing of hatred towards people can

be a very dangerous endeavor, especially when you are identifying as a Christian publicly.

That's correct.

And so we want to and part of the way you

unquote and you acknowledge.

We yeah

world is being honest with your own camp about

sir.

Like what we're talking about, you know, how we are how Republicans have contributed now.

Examples like gas prices gas prices are being impacted by inflation.

But I think gas prices are also being

no Biden

and so he's restricting permits.

He's restricting the Keystone pipeline.

In fact, he canceled that permit.

So I think there's certain things let's say related specifically.

Okay, maybe this administration is actually causing.

Unfortunately right now long before the

war even

started gas prices were

always already going up along

with

the economy.

And so I think when you're honest with yourself it can also

side has actually contributed to the problem in a way that the Republican Party or the other way that the

because we

want

now what is a.

Practical response from The body of Christ that would not only

involved Thought and belief but actual actions, I mean

are we basically to just passively sit and watch

until political officers are removed

through the voting process and a candidate that more.

More echoes.

What we Want to see occur in this nation, we just supposed to be.

Obviously when I say passively we have to be voting and things like that.

But what else can we do?

Other than just control the way we think and react in our minds and in our

speech.

Like a man traveling he's money behind for his servants to

invest.

He gives one servant five talents.

He gives the other servant to talent.

He gives the other servant one count and His

expectation

is and

when he

comes back

initial

the expectation.

You

and

you're going to

actually

make a

thing.

We want to

avoid way to

deal with the

inflatable way

to deal with the

inflation

problem.

There's more dollars floating around in the economy than there are goods and

services.

So one of the practical ways to deal with inflation is actually become innovative.

Invent and

actually that

helps.

That will

actually help the economy

if we're actually innovative in a very practical way.

That's the way Christians can invest with the talent God

has given you and do the best you can.

To

and so basically you're not saying become a spend thrift.

But other than investing when it comes to Our spending habits.

We should not be terrified and and be hoarders with our money.

We should be as much as possible a generous with our spending and perhaps

Even be treating a friend to dinner or or breakfast or lunch for that matter

more often and Being a part of a contributor to the economy and not hiding

in our homes.

Now as far as

biblical

counsel

about

that.

There are likely a lot of.

Ralph.

Cramdon's out there.

I don't know if you recall the honeymooners show.

I don't know how old you are, but Ralph.

Excuse me You're kidding me.

Really?

Well in the 50s, there was a show and they have been airing the reruns for decades ever since then.

There was a show called the honeymooners starring Jackie Gleason.

He was a bus driver and he had schemes and ideas For

investing the little money that he had to you know get rich overnight and we have to

be careful not to give people the assumption that you are advising

that they be reckless with Ideas

in starting businesses and making an additional source of income

that may be dangerous to them financially because they may be Flushing a lot of

valuable income that they already have down the toilet and investing something that might be not very wise.

Yeah,

now

I think

there's

two

wisely

and

then

you

make this

return is

like

nothing with

it.

Well, I would like you to have 90 seconds or so to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners.

Today is a rapidly running out of time in this first half hour.

We're the Lord

not man We

fear the

Lord not.

Be caught

doing your best to

turn in the floor.

Talent.

And that could

be that

the guy who's

also Working.

Well, that's a way where he's gonna return more into that company.

Did he gets out of it and he asked God to bless that investment even when you're working for another company?

Well, I want to strongly urge our listeners who know Gabriel wrench to use

your money very wisely by immediately purchasing him either a DVD

set or an electronic Version of all of the episodes of the honeymooners

starring Jackie Gleason and art.

Because I'm still my mind is still spinning that you've never even heard of that but you're talking about

clean comedy at its best that rivals anything that you would find hilarious in the 21st

century.

And let me.

Let me repeat your website.

Cross politic comm.

Cross politic comm thank you so much Gabe wrench.

I hope that you can return to the program for a longer period of time the next time you visit us.

And where can people find out about that conference.

Great and God willing. I will have an exhibitors booth for iron sharpens iron radio there.

So see you in Knoxville this October.

Well, God bless you brother, and we'll talk to you soon.

God willing Lord bless, but I please don't go away folks because our second guest

as I've already mentioned is dr James R. White who will be with us for the remaining 90 minutes of the program

and he is going to be revisiting an issue that we have recently been discussing

on the program or actually two issues King James only ism and Confessional bibliology.

If you have a question for dr. White send it immediately to Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Give us a first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves the personal and private matter don't go away.

We'll be right back with dr. James R. White.

James White of Alpha Omega ministries here excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of iron sharpens iron radio

and I Are heading to Washington DC for the g3 ministries regional conference on the theme

Just thinking about the Bible.

The conference will be held Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th.

And I'll be speaking along with Steven Lawson Josh vice founder of g3 ministries and Daryl Bernard

Harrison and Virgil Walker co -hosts of the just thinking podcast.

To register visit g3 min org.

That's g3 min org and click on events.

Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington DC.

So join me and Chris Arnson September 15th through the 17th in Washington DC to the g3

ministries regional conference.

Register now before they run out of seats at g3 min org.

That's g3 min org.

Stop by the iron sharpens iron radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.

Such a blessing to hear from iron sharpens iron radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Reilly a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show.

He really loves hearing interviewed.

Dr. Joe.

More craft.

I'm Joe Reilly a faithful iron sharpens iron radio listener here in a toy in County Kildare Ireland.

Going back to 2005 one of my very favorite guests on iron sharpens iron is dr Joe

more craft.

If you've been blessed by iron sharpens iron radio, dr More craft and heritage Presbyterian Church of coming

Georgia are largely thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of coming is in Forsyth County a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church Unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards and dr Joe more

craft is the author of an eight -volume commentary and the larger catechism.

Heritage is a member of the Hanover Presbyterians built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets

Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great Protestant

Reformation of the 16th century.

Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the Reformers Scripture alone

grace alone faith alone Christ alone and God's glory alone.

Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

For more details on heritage Presbyterian Church of coming Georgia visit heritage Presbyterian Church

calm.

That's heritage Presbyterian Church calm are called six seven eight nine five four seven

eight three one.

That's six seven eight nine five four seven eight three one.

If you visit tell them Joe Roy the iron sharpens iron radio listener.

I'm a toy and counseled.

Error sent

you.

When iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

This is Daryl Bernard Harrison co -host of the just thinking podcast and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Tom buck at First Baptist Church in Glendale, Texas and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Kent Keller of faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Andrew Rapport the founder and executive director at striving for eternity ministries and

the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Mark Romaldi pastor of Sovereign Grace Church of Greenbrier, Tennessee and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Christopher Cookston pastor of Prineville Community Church in Prineville, Oregon

and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Matt Tarr pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air.

Pastors are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio.

Go to NASBible .com.

That's NASBible .com to place your order.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen and our second guest today is dr. James R. White

Author of numerous books including the King James only controversy and apologist at Alpha and Omega ministries.

We are addressing further reflections on King James only ism and confessional bibliology.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio.

Dr. James R. White.

Well, it's good to be with you Chris.

I didn't get to hear anything the Gabe had to say but I've had to listen to too much of what Gabe has to say.

So we're good.

Well, here's something that I most came Out with from

our discussion.

Can you believe that Gabriel ranch? has never in his entire life even

heard of Jackie Gleason, Art Carney and the Honeymooners.

Well, I could.

I was able to detect that I was because I was listening to you and your utter

utter disbelief.

That there could be anyone on planet Earth that has not spent hours

watching the Honeymooners and.

And therefore therefore he that one cartoon of the the two

astronauts on the moon.

And this lady is laying there in a 1950s style dress on the surface of the moon.

I know.

It is it is stunning.

The young, you know, the younger generation has you know, pretty soon.

They're not gonna know who?

Lucy I'm home.

Anything like that means it's.

It's a sad sad reality, but it does explain what's going on in our world.

It really does.

It's really ridiculous when you think about the feminists who have called the Honeymooners Misogynists

because of remarks like that by Ralph Grandham.

Bang zoom you go to the moon.

And yet it was clear Alice ran that household.

Oh, yeah, and it was clear that she was the infinitely superior

intellect in that household.

That's right, and by the way, I have to quickly find out if you were hearing the commercials during the breaks.

No, okay, because we could hear you coughing and clearing your throat and all that.

So, but when I am you I am.

You did to let make sure you knew I was Raider.

Oh rock and roll.

Okay.

Well in the future perhaps mute yourself during the breaks.

All right, well as you know, I very recently had two interviews

a part one on June 1st and Part two on June 8th

With dr. Mark Ward who is on the faculty at Reform Baptist Seminary.

And we were addressing King James only ism and Confessional bibliology

and in fact, I urge our listeners after this interview is over with dr. White that you listen to those

interviews with dr. Ward on iron sharpens iron radio .com and the archive and

You wanted to give some clarification and some of your own

insight into this whole controversy that may have been Left out of those

two programs because even in two programs It's very difficult to go

beyond scratching the surface of many different topics that Christians face and this

would be two of them King James only ism and and Confessional

bibliology, so why don't we just start with you?

Addressing perhaps your observations of the program in fact it was From you that

I discovered dr Mark Ward to begin with because of your glowing your glowing endorsement of a

lecture that he gave on this issue that was videotaped and That is

how I tracked him down and invited him on the program.

So if you could proceed.

Yeah, and and of course that that lecture I'd highly recommend to people that's actually just the

audio version of a paper that he wrote that Again goes into the necessary detail

I would say that the entire movement stands refuted until the

information that Dr. Ward presented there can be responded to of course I would say the same

thing in regards to my paper on Ephesians 3 9 and and

Dr. Riddles comments upon that.

I I really believe that on a scholarly basis Fatal arguments have

been presented in regards to confessional bibliology that just simply are being ignored and

In fact there I used to have interaction with these folks on Facebook.

And what they did eventually is they just they openly decided that this is not the best way of

doing things.

And they just closed that they they made all of their their Facebook rooms private.

So they don't have to deal with people who will raise objections to their position and

It's it's amazing to observe especially from people who are reformed In their

soteriology and yet that's that's exactly what we're getting there.

So I'd recommend that people do that because there was a lot of really important information in dr

Ward's paper that didn't get discussed places where The various printed editions

of the Texas Receptus literally contradict each other that require.

If you're going to give an irrational response as to which TR to choose.

You've you've got to engage in textual criticism and as soon as you do that that position collapses because its

entire essence is We don't do textual criticism.

We've been given the one text and God's given it to us and Therefore we don't need to worry

about all this stuff that's been going on ever since the 16th century.

We don't have to worry about any new papyri that are discovered.

We don't we don't have to worry about any of this kind of stuff.

We've got our text.

And the result of that is that when you look at any particular text

They will have a set of arguments to establish what the Texas Receptus says

there.

So I challenged a young man just a couple days ago on Twitter Who is

flirting with some of this stuff and I I said, okay Explain to me

how we could know What the proper reading at John 118 is because John 118 very

important textual variant there.

There are the majority of manuscripts say the only begotten Son, but all of the earliest manuscripts

papyri The the the magisterial texts like Sinaiticus Venicanus they use

the term monogamous theos unique God of Jesus and so you have

to have a consistent methodology.

That allows you to examine the manuscripts and examine each text and to do so.

Consistently.

What confessional bibliology does is it has its own text and

There then it produces contradictory and different arguments

depending on what text you're looking at because what they need to have at the end is the TR

and so When I debated dr. Riddle, we debated the long -running of mark, which has

the most ancient Has a great deal of ancient evidence to it and the Texan Ephesians 3

That has almost no textual evidence for it whatsoever and they're both in the TR and

so he had to use completely different standards in one debate than he did in the other debate and that would

be the same thing if you looked at first John 5 7 if you looked at The the woman taken adultery called the

Prick of a adultery and John 7 53 3 8 11, etc Etc.

So it they can never ever ever use the same arguments.

They simply are Getting away with using different arguments for different texts

Because the end is always the same.

It's the it's the Texas Receptus, but so that's a All that's very important stuff

and you'll get all of that.

If you read dr. Ward's article or listen to the lecture I.

Was.

Especially the reason I contacted you was in the second program.

You mentioned a Email that you had gotten that you read on the air and

I can guarantee you as the author of the King James only controversy which came out in 1995

I could plaster my walls with the emails That sound

identical to the one that you read.

They're normally Printed out in different colored inks with

lots of capital letters.

Underscores.

Underlining all sorts of stuff rents and notes.

Exactly death threats and everything else.

Yeah it.

Believe me.

There had been a book DA Carson had written a book on King James only.

Isn't before I did and I I honestly.

They took it out of print because I think he was like, oh good.

There's another one out there.

We can we can aim people to so let's stop.

Actually said your book was better.

Well, well, yeah, it's because it's far more in -depth.

It's longer.

It wasn't his wasn't meant to you know to answer all the questions.

But the point is I think he was just like, oh, please.

I'm glad someone else to deal with this and not me.

Because it truly is amazing the kind of sounds out there but dr. Ward basically said

I would never respond to someone who raised those arguments personally and

You know to each his own and each has a different.

Yeah, everybody has a different perspective and and dr Ward basically said, you know, I want to deal with the

need to have understandable translation and and things like that and When he had in the

first program had talked about my book he was basically like yeah but that books primarily for like the top 5 of

King James only as the the real Real smart ones that are willing to do some studying and stuff like that.

And you know, I I sort of disagree with that I I think that I know a lot of people who

have Left King James only ism after reading the King James only controversy

but they they did so and And they had a stronger commitment

To the inspiration of scripture into how it was transmitted over time because they did deal with the background issues

and the issues concerning manuscripts and textual criticism and you know was codex Vaticanus found in a trash can

and I you know you were trying to sort of give your recollection of what I had said about that at the same time and

I just I really honestly feel that those issues do need to be addressed because

If you leave that stuff, you know just sitting out there then there's always the question Well,

what about that claim or what about that claim over there?

I don't want to I was I do not want people leaving King James only ism and ending up someplace where they no

longer really trust that there is a revealed word and so the the

letter that you read I'm sure probably if I asked Rich Pierce

if we've heard from this fellow that we probably have over and over and over again I I don't know who he is or anything like that, but

It was It caught my attention especially right at the beginning and

So, let me explain why it right the very first line Says the original writings of the Apostles

Moved from Jerusalem to Syria just prior to destruction of AD 70.

Now.

Let's let's think about this claim.

First of all, there is absolutely.

Positively not a.

Shred of historical evidence to substantiate such a claim.

None.

Nothing.

I cannot even imagine.

Where someone comes up with something like this it is?

Completely outside the realm of any type of documentable history.

But let's let's let's run with it for just a second.

The original writings of the Apostles moved from Jerusalem to Syria just prior to destruction of AD 70.

Why would there be a copy of Paul's epistle to the

Romans in.

Jerusalem.

Um.

How about the circular letter in Colossians 416.

Paul says read the letter that's coming from the church at Laodicea which is which probably was Ephesians, but.

Why why would Jerusalem?

Be the place where the original writings of the Apostles were.

What did did Peter go back to Jerusalem after He's gone out in his ministry and

and.

Did Paul keep the all the originals and then when he goes back to Jerusalem?

Did he manage to get them into the into the Jerusalem?

Apostolic archive before he was arrested as recorded in Acts.

How did how did you know depending on where you date?

Book of Revelation I don't have.

I think it is probably pre 70 myself.

But let's say you go with the majority of you.

It's post 70.

Well, then what about that?

How did.

How's that get dealt with this kind of claim?

Exposes the fact that many many people in evangelical churches

Really don't know anything about church history and.

You know that I've been teaching church history Since back when I didn't have a sense of humor

and you did and and and it drove you crazy.

Recently Chris there a couple times I've sort of felt like you know, I think I've got Chris on on this humor stuff.

I'm not sure what's going on.

But anyway, that's just between Chris and I.

Chris can tell you all sorts of really embarrassing stories.

This is where I bow and say with an Asian accent student you have become the master.

Indeed indeed.

You helped you helped break me out of my my straight -laced reformed Baptist shell

and there are many people that wish you had not done that actually so.

Now that now they know who to blame and they will.

But anyway, that's neither here nor there.

So this.

As you know, you know, I I'm now professor of church history at Grace Bible Theological Seminary.

Yes, and in fact will be teaching early church history in late September.

There in Conway, Arkansas in an intensive form, which is really tough to do.

But Johnson is my guest a week from today Wednesday.

That's not good.

Well, he's my boss.

So there you go.

I'm he may be my boss, but he'll probably tell you we're sort of glad we brought James on because

He he's he's sort of used to doing the battling thing.

He's been doing it for a long long time.

And and so he's he's he's doing that and helping us out in the process.

But anyway if you if you.

Know the history of my love of church history.

This is this is really really important stuff because I'm sure you've seen it 20

different times when I presented it out on Long Island years and years ago.

But I have a presentation I do on the transmission of the text of the New Testament.

In fact, we're gonna pick up right on that when we return from our midway break.

If anybody has a question for dr. White's send it in to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

As always give us your first name at least your city and state and country of residence.

This is our longer than normal break folks, so please be patient with us and Use this time wisely

and send in questions to dr. James R. White to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And don't go away.

We'll be right back with dr. James R White of Alpha Omega Ministries right after these messages.

Attention all men in ministry leadership.

You're all invited to my friend Chris Arnzen's iron sharpens iron radio free pastors luncheon.

Thursday, September 22nd 11 a .m. To 2 p .m. At Church of the Living Christ in Loisville,

Pennsylvania.

Featuring me James White of Alpha Omega Ministries your keynote speaker.

Not only will you enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with your colleagues in ministry over a delicious meal.

But you'll also receive dozens of free brand -new books.

Donated by Christian publishers all over the United States and the United Kingdom.

Personally selected by Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio.

So if you're a pastor an elder a deacon a parachurch leader or any other man in ministry leadership.

Please register for the iron sharpens iron radio free pastors luncheon today by

calling 631 291 7002 631

291 7002 or by visiting iron sharpens iron radio dot -com.

Iron sharpens iron radio dot -com.

This is James White of Alpha Omega Ministries hoping to see you Thursday, September 22nd 11 a

.m To 2 p .m. At Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania for Chris Arnzen's

iron sharpens iron radio free pastors luncheon.

As a mother I was looking for a magazine that Would include devotionals that I

could quickly do before school.

And had theology and doctrine made very simple for children to understand that they could read themselves.

Or I could walk them through.

There's tiered Content so that you can go to the older group and learn more or go to a younger

section.

And it's even more simple.

Join us on our journey in developing our magazine entitled ignited by the word Which

engages and ignites the hearts of our children and young people in their walk with God?

Order ignited by the word for your home today at ignited by the word org.

Learn more information and subscribe now at ignited by the word org and Receive your first

two issues free and put good literature in your children's hands.

As host of iron sharpens iron radio. I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

Flemington, New Jersey pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he

shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus.

Reading preaching and hearing the Word of God singing psalms hymns and spiritual songs.

Baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship performed with faith joy

and sobriety.

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at GC

BC and J dot squarespace dot -com.

That's GC BC and J dot squarespace dot -com or

call them at nine zero eight nine nine six seven six five four.

That's nine zero eight nine nine six.

Seven six five four.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on iron sharpens iron radio.

If you love iron sharpens iron radio.

One of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing is

Daniel P Patafuco serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

Dan is the president and founder of the historical Bible Society.

Their mission to foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written Word of God.

They go to various churches schools and institutions.

To publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating

presentation by mr. Butter Fuco.

Demonstrating the reliability of scripture to advance the cause of the gospel.

They created a beautiful perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ from the

original engravings contained in a first edition 1611 King James Bible.

This 17th century hand engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ

going back to Adam and Eve.

This book is complete with gorgeous full -size Illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of

Babel and an explanation of why the Genealogy of Jesus is so important for his

claims to the throne of the universe.

Originals of this work are in museums and nobody's ever made it accessible to the

public in a large book form before.

You can have your own copy of this 44 page genealogy book for a donation of $35

or more.

Visit historical Bible Society dot org.

That's historical Bible Society dot org.

Thanks for helping to keep iron sharpens iron radio on the

air.

An iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005.

The publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio Audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm dr. Joseph Piper.

President and professor of systematic and homiletical theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary

in Taylors, South Carolina and.

The NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Chuck White at the First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Anthony Mathenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardnerville, Nevada, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York.

And the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in South Lake, Texas and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air.

Pastors are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron.

Radio.

Go to NASBible .com That's NASBible .com to place your order.

This is pastor Bill Sousa of Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support iron sharpens

iron radio Financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers Which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ and of course the end of which we strive is the glory

of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee in Franklin is just south of Nashville Maybe 10 minutes

or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby.

We hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church.

Our website is Grace Church at Franklin org.

That's Grace Church at Franklin org.

This is pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign

Lord God Savior and King Jesus Christ today and

always.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here if you've watched my dividing line webcast often enough.

You know.

I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry.

Rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity and besides that they feel so good I'm so

delighted.

I discovered post tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot.

Jeffrey Rice of post tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.

All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching.

Jeffrey uses the finest and buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like

the turquoise goat skin Tanned in Italy used for my Nestle all -in 28th edition with a navy

blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin From a French tannery used to rebind a

Reformation study Bible I used as a gift.

The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.

Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather.

Making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art.

For more details on post tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding Go to PTL Bible

rebinding comm that's PTL Bible rebinding comm.

Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Linbrook Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in

the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship play and

together.

Hi.

I'm pastor Bob Waldeman and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can.

Be call in Brook Baptist at five one six five nine nine nine four zero two.

That's five one six five nine nine nine four zero two or visit Linbrook Baptist org.

That's Linbrook Baptist org.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own you need

to read.

Solid ground Christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of solid ground Christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future and To publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish God -centered Christ exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid ground books .com That's

solid ground books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or

present You can unearth from solid ground.

Solid ground Christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio and the

solid ground books .com has.

All of the books written by dr. James or white available

both those that they have published and Also those that others have published so if

you'd like anything written by dr. James or white go to solid ground books .com solid ground

books .com.

Always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnson of iron sharpens iron radio before I return to my discussion with

dr. White I just have a couple of very important announcements.

If you love this show, and you don't want it to disappear.

Please go to iron sharpens iron radio .com click support.

Then click click to donate now you could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion if you

prefer snail mail.

If you want to mail in a physical check to a physical address.

Well, there will also be a physical address that appears on the screen when you click support at

iron sharpens iron radio .com.

If you want to advertise with us as long as whatever it is You're promoting is compatible with what I believe you don't have to

believe identically with me.

But you need to be promoting something that's at least compatible with what I believe.

I would love for you to launch an ad campaign with me because we surely could use your advertising dollars

as well.

Send your email to Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com and put

advertising in a subject line.

Please remember I do not want my listeners.

Cutting in to the regular giving that you're accustomed to to your own local church where you are a member in order to

give Financially to iron sharpens iron radio.

In other words, don't give your own church less money to give us a gift.

Don't do that and don't put your family in further financial peril if you're really struggling to survive.

By giving us a financial gift at this moment in time wait till you are more stable and back on your feet.

Financially those two things are commands of God and scripture.

Providing for church and family providing for my radio show is not a command of God and scripture.

But if you are blessed financially above and beyond your ability to provide for church and family and

You do have extra money collecting interest in the bank or extra money for frivolous or recreational purposes.

Please share some of that money with us by going to iron trip and Zion radio .com click support then click

click to donate now.

Last but not least if you are not a member of a Christ honoring biblically faithful theologically sound church No

matter where you live on the planet Earth I may be able to help you find a church as I have done with many people in our audience.

I have extensive lists of faithful churches spanning the globe.

So if you are in that predicament send me an email to Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at gmail .com and

put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you could send in a question to dr. James R white on King James only ism or on

Confessional bibliology and our email address again is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

So dr. White you were talking about Conferences that you have done and where I have been present on the

transmission of the text and if you could pick up where you left.

Off.

Well, I'm very thankful that you still have short -term memory because I was trying to remember what it was who we're talking.

That's that's a sad aspect of getting older anyway and in those

Presentations that I've made in regards to how we can trust the text in the New Testament.

It's central to that presentation to explain to people the fact That the New

Testament books were written by multiple authors at multiple times to multiple audiences.

And what that means is they were never under the control of when any one person

or group of persons.

Now this is vitally important because this is the difference between what's called a Free

transmission of the text and a controlled transmission of the text with the New Testament.

We have a free transmission.

You have Paul he writes an epistle to a church they make copies

of that for their people and people who come and visit their church and those copies circulate and This is

the free transmission.

There's no central Organizing group that's controlling these things

Over against what's called a controlled transmission, which is what you have for example with the Quran

where in the historical documents and specifically in Sahih al -Bukhari volume 6 pages 105

and following you have the story of the Collation of the manuscripts

of the Quran the creation of the original manuscripts of the Quran because it wasn't written initially it was an oral text

and Then the destruction of anything other than the official version.

So there's a there's an editing going on.

There's an editing process a redaction process going on.

And you have a basically governmental Version of this sacred

scripture nothing like that ever happens with the New Testament and what's important to recognize

About that is the reality that when you have a when you have control of the

transmission of the text you can never get past the last time that the.

The.

Official people Made changes and put out the new quote -unquote inspired

version.

You have to trust that the people who are doing these things Are not tampering with the text.

When you have free transmission, you can you can go back to the originals.

You can go but not to the original manuscripts but you can go back to the original readings because you don't have that kind of

interference from a state or from a church or whatever else it might be and.

So when you hear this King James only argumentation or TR only argumentation

though It sounds more King James line to me the original writings of the Apostles

Moved from Jerusalem to Syria just prior to the structure of 8070 and then later.

Right after it says then the persecution of Rome arose but after it was stopped in 313 AD

the original writings Were brought to Constantinople to be copied.

Now again, this is pure historical fantasy.

It's fiction.

There is zero evidence of any of this.

You cannot you could never defend any of this kind of claim in a meaningful

debate against a Atheist or a Muslim or or anyone else like that.

It doesn't have any meaningful connection to history at all.

It's pure fantasy.

But but.

How did how's anyone supposed to know that?

I mean if people are claiming to have this kind of information You have to you have to

respond to these things.

But notice what it's doing.

It's it's It's creating this historical fiction of a

Collected set of original manuscripts that survived the

persecution.

Evidently I Moved from Jerusalem somehow in Syria somewhere.

No one knows where but in Syria during the entire Persecution the Roman Empire

and then is moved as a body somehow to Constantinople to be copied

and That means it is a

controlled text it's it's under the control of some

organization some group something That knows they are they're in possession

of the original manuscripts now again how they got collected.

We're not told what's the historical source test?

We're not told it's pure fantasy.

It's fiction.

This is an abuse of church history.

But church history is abused by everybody.

It is I remember so so clearly the first one of the first Pieces I ever

wrote on church history was a rebuttal of the Watchtower Society.

They put out an article.

Both night early 1990s as I recall where they Made

the claim that The early church father Ignatius Ignatius of Antioch who was martyred 107 108

ad somewhere around there.

So very very early on He has seven genuine epistles that are you know, just again.

I'll be teaching early church history.

We'll be spending a lot of time with with Ignatius.

Well as much time as we can anyways.

And.

The Watchtower put out an article telling its people That Ignatius denied the

deity of Christ.

But when you looked at their citations, they were citing only the pseudo Ignatian epistles

not the actual genuine epistles of Ignatius and they never once

made reference to the I Think at least ten

different times where Ignatius refers to Jesus Christ as God.

And in fact when people tell me well no one no one believed in things like the Hypostatic Union or the two natures of Christ and

things like that until well after the Council of Nicaea I can take him directly to Ignatius his epistle to the

Ephesians and He has an incredibly developed Doctrine of Christ

as generate and engender God and man life and death of Mary and of God.

I mean, it's just amazing and this is before 107 108 ad.

They mentioned none of that so it was one of the most obvious purposeful deceptive

abuses of church history ever.

And.

You'd expect that from the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

Obviously, it's a cult that they're there.

They're making things up as they go along and they still do but here it's King James only ism

and it's on the same level of Misrepresentation of the historical record and

yet what people don't realize is the impact that that that then has on

How we even defend the text of the New Testament, I mean these guys obviously aren't doing debates with

muscles.

That that that's a that's a disaster when it happens.

That's that's when you know stuff starts getting thrown around the room and and you call the cops and things like that.

But because they're not then they don't realize and I'm not sure they actually care to

be honest with you they don't realize that they are fundamentally undercutting our Ability to

give a meaningful defense of the New Testament by this kind of fictitious

Silliness that they are putting out but since they put it out as facts

It leaves a lot of people wondering well, well, is that true is it you know I've never I've never heard

my preacher talking about this and and that ends up causing some real some real serious issues I think.

And so it has been my experience.

I did a debate Haven't done a lot of debates King James on this because you just can't find many of them who either

will debate or are Rational enough to make it through a debate.

You know, I I actually sent to you Before the program a a link to a

program from 11 years ago Where I had a fairly well -known King James only list

on by name will Kenny.

And he and I had he and I had crossed swords many many years earlier back in the

Phytonet days the open Bible echo and stuff literally before the Internet were

Geeks like me and others were already doing the electronic thing just in slow motion, basically and

He came on the program and it was just so painfully obvious That he is

not a rational man.

He is not able to utilize Standard

logical forms of reasoning That we would expect anyone to be able to do to be able to drive a car

down the road to be able to operate In business or anything else.

And it's serious.

I mean and anybody just just go to sermon audio go to the dividing line thing Put in will

Kenny's name listen for yourself.

And somebody who you viewed as far more credible and scholarly da.

Wait.

If you may remember back in the 90s, I think it was yeah, I was trying to get him to debate you.

Finally after many Interactions agreed, but he said but here's one thing that I

assist upon that will make or break this deal.

There cannot be any cross examinations Dr.

Wait, we're not gonna do that.

Yep. Yep.

Oh, yeah, and and and da wait was a you know a nice guy but that's

exactly what you get.

I I did a A radio debate with one King James only guy and

when I brought up Key texts in regards to the deity of Christ Titus 2 13

2nd Peter 1 1 Romans 9 5 in which you have a clearer

testimony To the deity of Christ in the modern translations than you do

in the King James version of the Bible now.

And in in regards to I suit 18 second Peter 1 1.

This is primarily Due to the fact that the rule of Greek grammar

Known as Granville sharp construction that is found in those two places where you have our great God and

Savior Jesus Christ.

It tells us that both God and Savior are descriptive of one person that being Jesus Christ.

That rule was not Promulgated or understood in Greek grammar

until the late 1700s and so, you know, the the King

James translators were were brilliant men but things have been discovered since their

day.

As they themselves said that's exactly what would happen and.

So.

We have clearer testimonies to the deity of Christ in those texts today Than we did

in the King James version of Bible.

And of course the new King James Will have those testimonies to the deity of Christ they

they they recognize those those constructions and.

So in the I was stunned in the debate That the King James

only us attacked those texts

So as to maintain the supremacy of the King James even at the expense of clear testimonies to the

deity of Christ and You know part of part of me I guess I had

hoped that someone would recognize.

Well, you know if you're.

You know the.

Most repeated arguments of King James.

Only us is.

The modern translations deny the deity of Christ and the undercut the deity of Christ, etc, etc.

So they say it all the time and yet when I point out.

Well, let's look at the key text not not text that you've come up with.

It really aren't about the deity of Christ, but the key text that actually come up in debates with Muslims and Jehovah's

Witnesses and others.

A.

Translation like the ESV or the NIV or something like that the

the new Legacy Standard Bible, which I highly recommend as well.

They have a much clearer testimony to the deity of Christ than the King James does and

To maintain the supremacy of the King James they will attack those texts and they will deny it they

actually teach the deity of Christ.

So this is where you you get into what I've called cultic King James only ism.

Because it is just so inconsistent.

It's so incoherent that You know, these are the people who will say well if you weren't born again from

a King James version of the Bible then you've you've never been born again because that's the only true Word of God and and

This kind of stuff and and these people are out there.

It's it's astonishing, but they really really are out there.

We cannot get them to debate as you.

That's not only da wait, but these guys I've I've had some former fundamentalists who still have

connections in those areas.

Trying for a while to find some of these big names that especially travel around in

Virginia, North, South Carolina Georgia Tennessee some of the Deep

South areas.

Because I I would like to debate someone who you know will You

know is a traveling pastor and has written things and is willing to do these things.

And and I've on the dividing line.

I've taken their videos and I've provided responses said hey Okay, I've responded to your

claim.

So let's discuss it.

Let's do it.

They will not do it.

They know somehow deep down inside that the claims they're making are

Simply indefensible.

They they cannot survive any kind of meaningful cross -examination any kind of meaningful

examination at all.

And.

That's that's just a I think a clear evidence of what's going on with this these kinds of

you know.

The letter that was sent to you.

Because you look through this type of thing and it's it's it is a mixture of just

incoherent conspiracy theories propped up by historical

mythology and.

They get away with it.

Because most people don't know what sources to even go to to be able to check some of these things out.

Well, we have quite a number of listeners who have submitted questions and.

Let me start with Paul and Mesa, Arizona.

James since the time of your roundtable debate on the John Ankerberg show dealing with

the KJV only issue have you heard of?

Many that were helped by your presentation or whose minds were changed by that

series.

Yeah, let me mention it.

I think it's on YouTube.

I'm not sure.

It's sort of been there and then not there and and you know, Ankerberg's ministries.

Not what it once was and stuff like that.

Um, I think it's there.

I hope it's there because it was absolutely fascinating for no other reason than it was recorded in 1995.

So if you want to see what I look like while still trying to have hair and it'll be where you had the sense of

humor.

And I had round glasses and Yeah, all that stuff

Dan Wallace myself a number of those people are gone.

They're they're no longer here on earth the rep What's the art farstad was

up?

No, no, it wasn't maybe I don't know.

Anyways, the representative the new King James I know he's gone the representative the NIV he's gone.

Anyway, it was a fascinating exchange and basically Dan Wallace and I tag -teamed the other side and and

They they didn't all believe the same things so you had sort of a rippling or Ruckman

group and then you had more of a TR only da -wait type group and they Weren't

getting along real well, so it was it was a fascinating exchange

and yes over the years many many people have contacted us and and said man that was

so useful and so helpful and My files were filled back during the days of

regular mail With all sorts of letters from people where the the King James only controversy book

Things that we did along those lines just really opened their eyes to come to understand

the history of the Bible and and To recognize, you know, a lot of them felt there was something wrong

about all this.

They just couldn't put their finger on it and they they hadn't heard anything from the other side.

So between the book or the the Ankenberg series or things like that, it was like, oh there it is.

That's that's what that was all about.

Okay.

All right now I now I understand what's going on and been very very helpful to them of

course a number of them also say That once they read the King James only controversy then they

started looking at my other books and that's when they read the Potter's Freedom or God's Sovereign Grace or something like that and

Ended up becoming reformed so You've got that as well.

So but yeah, it's had a real lot of a very wide positive.

Influence and by the way, Paul, not only have you won a free copy of the King James only controversy

Compliments of our friends at Bethany house publishers, but you also won.

I believe you're a first -time questioner.

You've also won a free New American Standard Bible Compliments of the publishers and both will be shipped out to you by

CV BBS calm Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

Please make sure we have your full mailing address.

We have Cindy in Findlay, Ohio.

Dr. White years ago when I was in an IFB Church Independent Fundamentalist Baptist for our

listeners.

You don't know what that means.

And a KJV onlyist I read Gail Rippling there's book New Age Bible versions.

One thing I vaguely recall is that she criticized the doctrine of the sovereignty of God.

Do you recall what her complaint was about this doctrine?

Ah.

Well, I.

Guess I am the person to ask that question of because I am the only living person who has ever debated Gail

Ripplinger and If anyone if If you

enjoyed the Ankerberg one, oh my goodness the The two half -hour programs because they were just

half -hour radio programs on cared. Yes radio in Phoenix recorded in

1994 I believe with Gail Ripplinger and

If you find the Ankerberg stuff entertaining trust me.

The Ripplinger debate like I said, she never ever allowed herself to be

exposed to that kind of Direct cross -examination interaction

refutation ever ever ever again.

So yeah, I'm the only one who ever got to debate her and I do recall

a very strong Anti -reformed anti Calvinistic comments being made

through the through the book, but there certainly wasn't any developed synergistic

theology or something she just Her weird

unique brand of theology which she gets directly from God anyways.

Just really really didn't like it.

I know it isn't it true that that Phrase in the English language is not in the King James

Bible.

I.

Don't believe that it is.

So but I don't if I don't recall that was necessarily what her.

Her issues were.

She just recognized that I Don't know.

She just had a deep anti -calvinistic streak and she gave them to it at various places.

I.

It has been in God's mercy.

It is now been.

What?

Coming up on 30 years 30 years next year before I actually had to

Assault my brain in my mind by reading that very strange

weird book.

And it is I mean.

I.

Got done reading that thing because she said she would not debate anyone who didn't read her book which on one level.

Okay, fine.

But then once you read it you realize you're really not dealing with someone who's Who's functioning on

all cylinders, in fact, I would probably not do that debate today not because it wasn't useful.

But because we've already so plainly demonstrated what the issues are with the King James that

Wasting your time with something like that.

The problem was her book was being promoted.

In.

Calvary Chapel.

Chuck Smith.

Wow.

Chuck Smith was selling it in his Calvary Chapel bookstore.

Wow.

So there was no way around it.

I mean you.

In fact, that's how I think you know this.

I that's how the King James only controversy came into existence was I did that debate with Ripplinger and

People started hearing about it and especially Christian bookstores started contacting me going

Have you written anything on this.

Because we're getting hit with this people are walking into our bookstores and yelling at our clerks and they're carrying

this crazy black book called New Age Bible versions and We need something.

And so what I did is I took the notes that I brought with me to the radio station and I filled them out and

provided quotations and citations and stuff like that and my dad ran the print

shop at North Phoenix Baptist Church and He got permission to run I

don't know about 200 250 copies of this booklet.

New Age Bible versions refuted.

It was just a booklet, you know.

Wasn't anything big or major anything like that?

And then what happened was.

I mean we ran out of them we were sending them to bookstores in all 50 states just all over the place and

overseas and So one day I was on the phone with Steve Lobby the acquisitions editor at Bethany House

publishers.

And.

I'm telling him about this and then it sort of gets quiet and he says that sounds like there's a book there and

I said, you know what?

I think you're right and I wrote that book in less than four months.

That was all I did.

That time period basically.

But I wrote it in about four months and it would have come out a lot faster.

But Gail rip I when I wrote the chapter on the radical King James only us

which included Ruckman and Rippling er, I sent the chapter to both of them and

I said I want to make sure that I'm being perfectly accurate in my description of your position.

If you have any Comments to make let me know.

Now before the book goes to publish it goes to the publisher and She didn't

contact me but she wrote to Bethany House publishers and threatened to

sue them if they would pub if they published the book.

Wow, and so there was a Delay as Bethany

House's Attorneys looked at the material to make sure we were on

solid ground.

Before the before the book came out you would have thought that she would have just viewed it as great advertising for her own book.

Well.

Gail rippling er is is not a sane individual and that is that is plainly evidence

in fact.

If.

I'm surprised.

Did you ever see the YouTube video?

That someone did where I I read through on the dividing line

James white Gail Rippling er, let me see.

Although, okay.

Yes, so I On on YouTube

This is two years ago Kuiper belt productions, you know Kuiper belt productions Chris.

No, I do not.

Oh the they're the ones who do the funny Calvinist stuff of videos where they collect all the

funny stuff from from Anybody who's reformed put all together.

You'd love it.

Then again, I think you're slowly morphing into me when I was a young person.

So Maybe not.

I don't know but Anyway, Kuiper belt productions put out and you can go to YouTube.

It's seven minutes long and It's called the sinking of the Titanic and the

NIV Bible.

So just put in the sinking of the Titanic and the and you'll need to put in and the NIV Bible you'll get 70

,000 videos about the singing Titanic, but it's where I go through and read

Gail Rippling er's comments.

Actually, I played I played from a radio program Gail Rippling er's

response to a discussion about the the NIV and the

Titanic and they put in all the graphics and sound effects it is Absolutely

classic you will fall off your chair Laughing and it and it's

appropriate to laugh because at the same time her book Destroyed ministries it

split churches it it I got letters from missionaries who had to come home from

missions work in places like Uganda because they're sending churches got infected with this stuff and

She's got a lot to answer for in the future.

So it's it's only humorous on a certain level, but the insanity of this

woman's ability to connect things together that have zero

Rational Connection at all is Absolutely

astonishing it truly truly is.

Well, we have.

The individual who actually sparked your interest Primarily to do this

program today.

We have Mike in Pittsburgh, California.

Who says do you believe the testimony of Eusebius that the original writings of the Apostles were brought to

Constantinople to be copied after the edict of Milan.

If so, what do you think might have been copied?

No.

Eusebius is extremely important source in early church history, but it

is very very well known that Eusebius obviously a did not

use our modern standards of historiography and B there are just so many things that

he claimed That we just we just know without

question.

We're not the case.

There is there is nothing there isn't there is no evidence provided that would

Tell us who when how how did?

Here's here's a question for this gentleman.

How did the writings of the Apostles that were written at different times to

different?

Audiences all end up in Jerusalem and pre 70 80.

How did that happen?

Eusebius doesn't tell us he doesn't even doesn't Comment about anything like that.

How would that even happen?

So there I mean Paul's writing prison epistles.

So his he writes to Timothy from the from prison and the original is

somehow trans transported to Jerusalem before 80 70

and Then hidden out in a cave someplace.

What is this?

Is this the search for the Holy Grail Type of a type of an ID you got a 700 year old monk taking care of

stuff out out in the desert in Syria.

This is mythology.

It is not anything that is defensible in any kind of

Any meaningful situation if this were the case then?

Not only would you have?

The.

Allegedly TR Byzantine text type and the TR is a later form the

Byzantine.

That's that's there's there are so many errors in this letter that it we wouldn't even have time to get into it.

But the TR represents a late form of the Byzantine text type not an early form.

So the earliest forms of the Byzantine text type, which is not the earliest text type that we have but the

earliest forms are different than the TR.

And I would I would ask him for example all.

All.

ALL with a capital A and two L's afterwards.

All Manuscripts is a great New Testament.

The container book of Ephesians have a different word at Ephesians 3 9 than the TR has.

So what are you gonna do?

What are you gonna do in that situation?

Do you accept?

The.

Do you change the TR when the majority reading of manuscripts is against the TR?

There's just so many Problems of this because if the idea is well Then then there was all this

copying that went on in this particular period then why isn't why is it that the earliest?

Manuscripts we have from that that time period aren't that don't match the TR.

When I say don't match the TR I need to explain that obviously.

The TR and any one of our earliest manuscripts are gonna present the same gospel same God, etc, etc.

We're talking about variant readings that will define a particular text type.

So.

You know John 118 whether it's not gonna stay offs versus monogamy SWE offs or

Romans 5 1 whether it's subjunctive or indicative think things like this.

The the papyri which come from that very time period

Are the most unlike the TR.

So how does that work see when you do serious sexual criticism when you actually do?

The work.

You recognize that for example, there's a massive change that takes place

between the 7th and 8th centuries and.

You know why that is historically.

It's called the rise of Islam and the total change of the religion of

North Africa From Christian to now Muslim and the impact that that has.

You also recognize the the centrality of Constantinople as the last Greek speaking

area to be able to hold off the Muslim invasion until it falls in

the middle of the 15th century and.

There's just that's real history.

That's not the fake history where you you go.

Oh, yeah.

We're not gonna worry about you know Manuscripts actually got to Jerusalem or how

they got the Constantinople or who was doing all this stuff.

We don't worry about you know, actually providing any foundation of this.

We'll just sort of speculate and fill in the gaps and then try to make this fit some.

Some theory that we've come up with and in fact.

We have to get a final break and it's gonna be brief.

But you can pick up where you lift off if you want when we come back.

Sure.

Don't go away folks.

We're gonna be right back after these messages.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of iron sharpens iron radio

and I Are heading to Washington DC for the g3 ministries regional conference on the theme

Just thinking about the Bible.

The conference will be held Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th.

I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson Josh vice founder of g3 ministries and Daryl Bernard

Harrison and Virgil Walker co -hosts of the just thinking podcast.

To register visit g3 min org.

That's g3 min org and click on events.

Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington, DC.

So join me and Chris Arnson September 15th through the 17th in Washington, DC to the g3

ministries regional conference.

Register now before they run out of seats at g3 min org.

That's g3 min org.

Stop by the iron sharpens iron radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.

I'm dr. Joseph Piper President emeritus and professor of systematic and applied theology

at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the deformed faith and the Westminster standards should have and use

the eight volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the Westminster larger catechism titled

Authentic Christianity by dr. Joseph more craft.

It is much more than an exposition of the larger catechism.

It is a thoroughly researched work utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and

systematic theology.

Dr. Moore craft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia.

And I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine

congregation.

For details on the eight volume commentary go to.

Westminster commentary calm.

Westminster commentary calm.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia visit.

Heritage Presbyterian Church dot -com.

Heritage Presbyterian Church dot -com.

Please tell dr. Moore craft and the Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia That dr. Joseph

Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Sentient.

If you're near retirement or thinking about retiring you probably have questions.

How do you make your savings last?

How much should you take out and when you're ready for retirement?

But are your finances art?

Amundsen and Edward Jones financial advisor can help you build a strategy to help make sure Your

finances keep up with your long -term needs.

Do what it takes to get there now.

It's time to make the most of retirement.

Visit Edward Jones calm.

That's Edward Jones calm or call 7 1 7 2 5 8 4 6 8

8.

7 1 7 2 5 8 4 6 8 8.

We here at iron sharpens iron radio are forever grateful for the generous financial support

of art Amundsen Edward Jones financial advisor in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Call 7 1 7 2 5 8 4 6 8 8 today.

How do we know we picked the right Bible.

Why do we go to church on Sunday.

Parents if your kids have questions about God's Word and his creation They would love

to read our new reformed magazine called ignited by the Word.

This magazine is packed full of devotionals Bible stories church history

poems Activities and more to encourage you and kids of all ages in their

walk with God.

Created by a team of teachers Ministers mothers fathers and more.

We know how important it is to have Christian literature in our homes.

Order ignited by the Word for your home today at ignited by the Word org.

Learn more information and subscribe now at ignited by the Word org and Receive your

first two issues free.

Hello, my name is Anthony Vino.

And I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Quorum, New York.

And also the host of the reform rookie comm website.

I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the iron sharpens iron radio show like I do You can now find it on the

Apple's iTunes app by typing iron sharpens iron radio in the search bar.

You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work.

Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the iron sharpens iron radio show at any time day or night.

Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many

Solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzin has on the show.

Truth is so hard to come by these days.

So don't waste your time with fluff or fake news.

Subscribe to the iron sharpens iron radio podcast right now.

And while you're at it You can also sign up for the reform rookie comm podcast and visit our website and the YouTube

page.

We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as

well as seasoned believers.

From Keach's Catechism and the doctrines of grace to the Olivet Discourse and the book of Leviticus.

The reformed rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth

and Finally if you're looking to worship in a reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession

of Faith.

Please join us at hope reformed Baptist Church in Coram, New York again.

I'm pastor Anthony video and thanks for listening.

Welcome back.

Dr. White our listener in Pittsburgh, California Lastly says Eusebius

says that the early church moved to Pella in Syria prior to 1870 which is how the

church avoided the destruction and he also says what documents they brought with them.

Any comment on that?

Well, of course Matthew 24 had warned them what was going to be happening.

Why would they have anything Paul wrote to the Romans or the Colossians or the books that hadn't been

written yet?

It's just so obvious.

I just I don't understand what it is about King James only ism that that makes people Do this kind

of stuff but it's it's how many letters were written to Jerusalem.

The Christians went out from Jerusalem.

There wouldn't be any reason for them to be sending stuff back to Jerusalem.

I mean, yes, yeah that Matthew 24 that that actually would get us into a

Good discussion on what the actual fulfillment of Matthew chapter 24 was rather than what's very common

in a lot of places today, but That doesn't in any way shape or form change the

reality that the idea that there was some type of Archival copy of the original

writings from the Apostles when they've left the area.

They're not there anymore.

There are no fax machines.

There's no there's there's no aircraft anything else like that.

This is why again It's it's hard to take this kind of stuff.

Seriously.

It really really is because there's just so such obvious holes in it that it's like.

Anyway, we have Anthony in Hoshton, Georgia.

KJV only has seemed to be so obsessed with their ideas that They couple their belief with a

legalism found in several fundamentalist churches.

Is the problem a lack of knowledge of Greek a lack of knowledge of the history of how we have the

manuscripts?

Or is it a combination of all of this?

What is the best way to promote a healthy dialogue with them?

Well, it can be a combination of all those things it's it's normally much more a

commitment to a tradition and I know they all don't think they have traditions, but very plainly

King James only ism is a tradition and It is a way of virtue signaling to

those around you that you're part of the group and so I have

not there.

There isn't any one way of getting people to listen.

There are clearly people who will not listen and it seems cannot listen.

They are they have made a commitment in their minds to one particular perspective and they will twist

and warp Everything to fit with their their one particular perspective.

Those that have been helped were those who actually believed

That what they believed about the King James Version of Bible was defensible.

So in other words people who actually want to take their message Out to other people

and they actually want it To be understood as being truthful.

They actually want to see people come to embrace the gospel or embrace

Christianity in some form etc, etc.

Those are the ones that I can reason with because They are having to for

example if they're already witnessing to Mormons for

example then they already recognize that well if I'm gonna Critique the Book

of Mormon.

I have to use the same standards in defending the Bible.

I can't use one standard to attack the Book of Mormon and another standard to Defend the Bible at least

a rational person thinks that way a truth -loving person thinks that way.

Those the people who I think then realize.

Oh, wow.

I've really been given some bad information here.

They're the ones that end up Recognizing what's what's going on?

If you can't get some if you have someone who literally believes that it's okay

To use Completely contradictory standards to attack

the Book of Mormon and a different set of stairs to defend the King James Version of the Bible.

I Don't know if there's anything to be done for such a person that you know The

Spirit of God can get through to anybody but the Spirit of God is the Spirit of truth.

And a person who does cannot even seemingly rationally Understand what truth

is or how to express truth or how to recognize truth.

That's that's where that's where there's a real problem.

We have Pedro in Reno, Nevada, and I was in Reno Pedro.

He won Pedro for president.

I Shot a man in Reno just to watch him die at once.

But anyway Pedro Pedro Says.

When an Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic Asks us how are we supposed to

abide by sola scriptura when we cannot identify?

What the scripture is is a good response to ask?

Well, how is the church supposed to identify the books writings of the canon if they don't know the

characteristics? properties qualities the nature of said books writings which solo

scriptura actually is Addressing keeping them the wrath of heaven via God's Word.

Pedro in Reno.

Well when.

When the groups that claim to have canonical authority Make that particular type

of argument.

When dealing with Roman Catholics, especially it's real easy to point out that in

fact in Romans chapter 3 we were told that God Gave the oracles his

oracles to the Jewish people and the Jewish people never accepted the apocryphal books As

being canon scripture.

So.

Why should we accept their authority when they are going against?

What the word says that he had entrusted his his his oracles to the Jewish people.

The the idea of confusing solo scriptura with canon though.

While they are related they need to be distinguished because what we're talking about is the nature of

scripture as they are.

New.

Stas is what makes solo scriptura a valid and meaningful doctrine.

That is there is only The reason a scripture has ultimate authorities because of its

nature as being God breathed.

As I asked Mitch Pacwa.

Not in not on Long Island, but on the other side of the country when we debated solo scriptura in 1999.

In Southern, California, I asked him Has the Roman Catholic Church defined a single word

that Jesus ever said that is not found in Scripture.

Defined it infallible.

He said well, no anything that even the Apostles said that's not found in Scripture.

Well, no, so there's there's nothing there that is not

Found in Scripture that is actually God's Word and Rome's not claiming that there is.

So what Rome is doing is trying to join That which is the honest us with

which that with that which is not with tradition.

Which they can't trace back to Jesus or to the Apostles and so you have two different.

Natures.

Inspired Scripture, which is the honest us tradition, which we don't know where it comes from.

They can say it comes from the Holy Church or anything else, but they have to admit It's not they honest us and so

they are trying to create a a cord of two very very different types of Thread

and it that's not gonna work.

That's that's where the the contradictions end up coming up.

So.

Yeah, that that is a common argument that that that they're using but it involves confusing

Canonical issues with like textual critical issues.

They are related but they are in different.

Different aspects shall we say of of the issue?

Well, we are out of time and everybody who sent in a question today is going to receive a free copy

of the King James only controversy if you send in your mailing address to me at Chris Ornson at

gmail .com and We want to thank Bethany house once again for providing those copies and also

CVB BS comm for shipping them out.

Remember folks the Alpha and Omega webs Alpha and Omega ministries website is a o min org.

Thank you so much. Dr White for being such a superb guest as always and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives

That Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.