Who are China's Walking Dead? Kay Rubacek

Creation, History, and the Rise of Communism

Okay, and I'm going to go live. Okay, so here we go. Um, Erica. Okay, I am Terry cameras though I'm here tonight with creation fellowship Santee and we're a group of friends bound by our common agreement that the creation account is told in Genesis is a true depiction of how God created the earth and all life in just six days.

A few thousand years ago, we met for about 10 years in person at the creation and Earth History Museum in Santee, California, but took to this online platform and in June of 2020 and haven't looked back.

God has blessed us with presentations from scientists, doctors, authors, pastors cartoonists prophecy speakers and other talented people who love the Lord and have a message to share. You can now find links to most of our past presentations by typing in tiny url .com forward slash CF Santee that's C like creation F like fellowship and Santee is spelled s a n t e.

You can also email us at creation fellowship Santee at gmail .com to get on our email list so you don't miss any of our upcoming speakers, and we never spam. Joe and Stacey gonna have been our friends and and members for many years and since Joe's home going last year we always want to honor his memory by mentioning the continuing work of his ministry throughout all ages throughout all ages ministries focuses on reaching people with the gospel contending for the faith and stirring the body to love and good works, although they enjoy street witnessing and other and other evangelistic opera events, God has blessed them with the unique opportunity to go into public schools and speak to young people on relevant topics.

You can learn more about throughout all ages ministries at throughout all ages .com. Naturally most of our weekly topics have our creation themed, but from time to time we're blessed with some off topic presentations too.

And tonight might seem like it's an off topic one, we had a similar presentation a few weeks ago with Trevor Loudon who was here and talking about social socialism and communism and we're going to be revisiting that subject with our speaker tonight K ruby check.

She. Before we mentioned before I introduce your I just want to remind everybody that in the creation and Earth History Museum there's a hallway that shows that demonstrate some of the consequences of evolutionary thinking, and how that kind of thinking can lead to disastrous ends, including communism and socialism so we're going to be hearing a lot about that tonight and we just want to be able to connect those dots.

If you have questions during her presentation you can put them into the chat on zoom or into the comments on Facebook, and we'll ask them during the live q amp a after her presentation. K is an author she's a celebrated author and award winning filmmaker and distinguished journalist for the NTD and, and the epoch Times News.

She is a third generation fighter of communism, her family flood communism in Russia back in the 1920s, and her husband and she fled Australia because of socialism over 10 years ago. Now she is committed to fighting for the truth and repelling all of the components of communism and socialism in America to K ruby check America is the last best hope for the world.

She is a committed Christian with her husband and children living in upstate New York, her new book, who are China's walking dead is a firsthand account of all of the oppression, violence and propaganda in China from real victims and their stories.

She'll be discussing that with us tonight, as well as a new film that she has called finding courage. So with that, I'm happy to turn it over to UK.

Family History, Socialist Education, and Firsthand Encounters With the CCP

Thank you so much, Terry and thank you for everyone who's joining us here tonight it's really important that we have these topics and what a great group of people to be talking to I've been speaking about this topic.

Really quite a lot since, well, really a lot this year, but it's something that's very close to my heart and now let me just give you a little bit more detail into how I got to this point. Before I go into the really where my book is at with the title, who are China's walking dead, which okay does sound like a scary title and people say to me case sometimes your works are a bit scary, but I really believe that there is a lot of hope when we have face.

And that's the conclusion I'm going to come to. But I will talk about how I got to that point. And so my name is Kay Rubachek and I've been doing video production and production even in video gaming and education nonfiction productions for more than almost 25 years now.

And I started doing that in Australia. But I was actually born into a family of Russian immigrants in Australia. And because my family, they'd fled communism, but they didn't like to talk about it. And really, I think that happens to a lot of us.

We find comfort and we forget about tyranny. Tyranny becomes someone else's problem. And that's what happened to my family. And as I tell my story throughout the US here, I've had so many people say to me, oh, my family escaped communism too.

So in a way, as I tell you my story, you might find some parallels with your family. But one difference is so I'm finding that my story may not be that unique. Some parts are but other parts aren't really from a lot of Americans.

But what's unique perhaps is that I'm talking about it. And I hope to encourage more people to talk about their family stories, their history, because it's our history. And really looking back is what we can learn from to understand exactly what's going on around us today.

So my family, as I said, Russian immigrants, they escaped Russia in the 1920s. But then where did they go? They went to China. And that was before the Chinese Communist Party took over China. So my family were committed Christians in Russia before the Soviet Union, before communism took over Russia.

And because they were people of faith, they also owned businesses, they owned land, they had to escape. And my father's parents, grandparents, they escaped. And with his parents, while they were quite young, they escaped.

And they spent five years travelling on foot to get from one side of Russia down through Mongolia and finally find safety in China. That's a long time to be a lot of that time they were being chased by what they called the Red Russians.

These were the Soviet Russians. And what did they do? They were being scared. There was bodies, dead bodies hanging in the trees in the forest when they were escaping Russia. Because this is what communists do.

They want to make us afraid. And maybe the signs at that time, they were dead bodies hanging in the trees. But what we see in modern times, times may have changed, and the fear factors around us that make us feel afraid and scared may look different.

We may not be seeing bodies in the trees, but there are other things that make us feel afraid. And I'm going to tie that back together at the end of this presentation. Because the tactics of socialism that I've seen, communism, really a lot of them haven't changed since the beginning of their strategies in this past century to destroy faith and essentially try to play God on earth.

So I'll tell you a bit more about my story. So when my family got to China, and it was both my paternal side and maternal side of my family, they both went to China, but different parts of China. And my parents married in Australia.

But my father was born and raised in China, in northeast China. And there he was very fortunate to have survived what is called the Great Famine. There's nothing great about it at all. This is a perversion of language.

In China, under the Chinese Communist Party, they've had 70 years of socialism. And what happens is language gets changed. It gets perverted. Meanings change. And that forces a change in culture. And that's what happened in China.

The worst environmental disaster in our history, probably across the whole world, is the supposed so-called Great Famine in China, where up to 45 million people died. Think about that. 45 million people died over a period of three years, a very short period of time.

Yet we don't talk about this in school. We don't talk about this in general. When we talk about the crimes of the Chinese Communist Party, the Chinese people have been taught to forget their history, but we've also been taught to forget the history and the crimes of communism.

This regime, these tyrannies, have killed more people than any of the world wars. Yet they've never been tried for their crimes. So my father was very fortunate to have escaped with his siblings. They had, through their church, they had someone in Hong Kong help them come out over to Australia, where they were able to find safety.

My husband's family, they were from the former Czechoslovakia, the Eastern European bloc, where the Soviet Russians took over and they were persecuted. My husband's family were not people of faith, but they knew that communism was wrong.

And they didn't want to follow the party line. But my husband's grandfather, his father's father, was a high-ranking official. And if they didn't follow the party line, they were going to be thrown into jail.

So they risked their lives, the whole family, and spent four months in a refugee camp, and were very lucky to not be sent back to prison. They made it to Australia. Once they were in Australia, my family didn't want to talk about communism anymore.

It was someone else's problem. They didn't have to worry about it anymore. And they didn't want us to, as kids, to know about the evils, because they, my father would just tell us, we didn't have enough food.

That's all he would say about this famine that killed 45 million people, where he was sometimes having to eat, lucky if they could get a sparrow to eat. They didn't want to talk about it. So what happens now?

In Australia, I went to college to do a fine arts degree, and I recognized that something wasn't right. The education I was being taught, I was being taught a very socialist education. I had friends around me who were doing very traditional artwork, and they were all failing.

And I was being pushed, as a young student, I was being pushed to do conceptual art. And it's not what I wanted to do, but it was more like I was being trained in psychology and marketing. I wasn't being taught art.

And yet I was getting high distinction marks. I knew something was wrong. So I left. And I pursued a career in production instead. And through that, I was able to learn. I started to learn about communism and realized that what was going on in the college system, for a long time now, when I went to college, it was more than 20 years ago.

So what we're seeing in the U .S. college system here is no different, and it's been going on for a long time. This socialist education starts with intellectuals. They get us when we're young. They get us when we're impressionable.

They get us when we're trying to figure out what to do in the world and we're pressing up against authority and wanting to try new things and find our own feet. And that's exactly, socialists know, that's when they get us.

And they first, in every regime around the world, where they've taken over, and even in America where they're taking over in a soft form, they target college students because they always target intellectuals and artists first.

You look at every regime, you look at China, you look at Soviet Russia, they get the intellectuals on board because they can use the language in a way to express and extol what is supposedly great about socialism.

And we know it's not great because it destroys the family, it destroys faith, it destroys culture, it destroys religion. And then they target the artists. They woo them. They woo them with money and fame and influence.

Then they pervert them to destroy culture. They use them to spread negative culture. You can see this around you. Look around you with what Hollywood does, what the music industry does. And then they use them, they abuse them, and then in the end, when a regime takes over, they're the first ones to go.

They're the first ones to be turned on. Because this type of regime, socialism and communism, it has no problem of destroying its own. It continues to destroy its own. It's absolutely nothing like our values.

It is a system built on lies, deceit, deception, where lying, cheating, stealing, killing is not a problem. It's actually a directive for communist regimes. And I'll get into that a little bit in this next part.

Because I then came face-to-face with China, the Chinese Communist Party. What happened to me was that my family didn't talk about communism. I didn't understand. I didn't understand the evils. And then I found myself in a Chinese prison.

I was a human rights advocate. I went to China to stand up for the rights of people who were being persecuted. This is in 2001. And my father told me I was naive and ignorant. He was absolutely right.

But I went anyway. And I'm a bit of a stubborn person. And I really couldn't believe that when I was hearing stories about people really being heavily persecuted, I just, it was very hard for me to accept.

And I felt that I needed to see it with my own eyes because I thought that could be happening to me. And in 2001, I went. I held a banner on Tiananmen Square, a very public place in China. I broke no law.

I checked the legalities of what I was doing. I broke no law. But within 30 seconds, I was surrounded by uniformed and un-uniformed police. And I was pushed into a van. I was assaulted. I was locked in a basement prison cell.

I wasn't on my own. I did go with two friends from Australia. And there was others there who came at that time because I knew there was going to be a group going. So I wasn't, you know, I wasn't completely on my own.

I really felt that I had some level of safety being a Caucasian. But I was naive. I really didn't know the evils of communism until I faced it face-to-face. And you know what I was holding when I was on Tiananmen Square?

There was a very large banner. And I was holding a large banner. I was the last one left holding that banner on Tiananmen Square. And I had these police, undercover police officers on Tiananmen Square in China, more undercover police officers than uniformed police.

So I was being surrounded by un-uniformed police undercover. And I'm quite tall. I'm six foot tall. And these Chinese police were quite short. And they're coming closer and closer to arrest me. And I look over to see what they're seeing.

I was holding the Chinese character for the word compassion. I was arrested in China for holding the word compassion. And I questioned my arrest when I was arrested. And they said, what you said was illegal.

Those words are illegal in China. Now, that to me was unbelievable. It was absolutely ridiculous. I witnessed so many propaganda techniques while I was there. I witnessed so much manipulation. They tried to force me violently and through coercion and through yelling and screaming and all different forms to try and get me to sign papers that I couldn't read.

They're in Chinese. I don't speak Chinese. They tried to force me to say that the CIA had paid for my plane ticket to China. Absolutely ridiculous. I had a good job. I paid for my own ticket. My parents, my family, my boss knew exactly where I was.

I paid for my own flight. That's what they told me. These are lies and this is what the system is based on. And I got to see that firsthand. And what did they do? So over 23 hours I witnessed a lot of propaganda techniques.

And they tried to take my credit card and force me to buy a return flight to Australia.

I refused.

I already had a return flight three days later. And I said, if they want me to leave earlier, they're going to have to pay for my flight. And they did. They bought me a ticket. This is the Chinese Communist Party bought me a ticket to get out of China so that I would keep my mouth shut.

Not only that, they took me to get to the airport. They didn't take me through the regular airport. They had a secret channel, sort of backdoor channel maybe where they would take maybe dignitaries or something.

But it was not a public space, a public channel to get onto the airplane because they didn't want me to say any words of truth. They didn't want me to say compassion to the Chinese people. This gave me a lot of hope that tyranny is vulnerable because we know that truth exists and they know those at the top level, regular citizens, a lot of them have really suffered brainwashing for decades.

But those at the top levels of tyranny of these types of regimes, these socialist, communist regimes, they know that there are lies. Their system is based on lies and truth can bring it, truth will make it fall apart.

And I witnessed that in China. It was a very, it was an experience that changed my life. And after that, I decided to turn my video production skills towards exposing the lies of communism and socialism, the human rights abuses, the extreme human rights abuses and seeking justice for the crimes of communism.

My family escaped communism, three generations, three countries, and there has never been any trials for any of the victims of communism. And there's millions, many, many millions of people. And what I found is that it's really why haven't there been trials?

Why don't we have a very clear definition of socialism and communism like we do, for example, Nazism? We had the Nuremberg Trials at the end of World War II. So we know we have a definition of what happened during Nazi Germany time.

We know what was done and there was some justice for the victims. And since then, we have a clear definition on what happened in that period of history. We don't have that for the crimes of communism because communism is still here.

And that's what we are facing today. We are facing the long-term goals of certainly the Chinese Communist Party and other elements of the international socialist movement. But the Chinese Communist Party is the largest communist regime in the world and its eyes are on America.

And for that, they need to bring down family and faith. That's what they attack. And that's really why I'm talking to you because I feel that as people of faith, we must understand what these people are trying to do because they are trying to subvert.

They are trying to really trick people to think that socialism is inevitable and that we are made as if we're accidents. They are trying to make us forget that we are made by a divine hand. Each of us have this, you know, we have a mind, we have a brain, we have a spirit, we have a soul.

These are the things that the socialists can never remake in their quest to remake humankind and play God, which is essentially when you read their texts and follow what they've done, as I've done, over the past century, you can see that that's what they are trying to do.

They are trying to destroy our faith so that it can be replaced with a faith in them. And in China, under the Chinese Communist Party, religions there, faith there is required to be under the regime. The regime, the CCP, Chinese Communist Party,.

Is the top.

And you're not allowed to put God above the party. That is really the greatest shame in that nation because all the traditions of China were all essentially spiritual. They were all religious faith. That was the culture of China.

But when the Chinese Communist Party came in and then did the Cultural Revolution and really wiped out the culture, then the faith was taken away from the people and it left a huge gap in their souls.

The Meaning of "Walking Dead" and the Loss of Faith in China

And that's what led me to this book that I'm talking about today, Who Are China's Walking Dead? So this book is based on interviews with former Chinese Communist Party officials. Officials like I interviewed a judge, a criminal and a civil judge.

I interviewed a former army colonel. I interviewed a former national secret agent, a police commissioner from the capital city of Beijing, a man who ran not just one but multiple slave labour prison camps, among other.

A propaganda official, journalist, high-ranking journalist and propaganda officials. I interviewed a whole range of Chinese officials. And the reason I did that was because I was making a movie called Finding Courage.

And I'll show you the DVD here, Finding Courage. Now, this movie is actually, this is based, you can see the image there is in Washington, D .C. and this is a brother and sister, Leo and Yifei Wang. Now, they were victims of the Chinese Communist Party and their story I felt could just show the breadth of persecution in China.

And so I was working on this documentary film. But the problem was is that the victims themselves couldn't answer a lot of my questions. They could answer all the questions about their experience, which was very profound and very tragic, but full of hope and faith over fear and courage over tyranny.

There was so many wonderful elements to this story. But they couldn't tell me how the regime could be so cruel. They couldn't tell me why. Why did the regime set up these slave labour prison camps? Why do they still exist today?

Why do they use electric batons? Why do they torture in such evil manners? And why did they arrest me for holding a banner on Tiananmen Square that had the word compassion on it? So that's what I found interviewing, I've actually interviewed more than 100 victims of communism, a lot from China but also from other regimes too.

And often the victims don't understand why they have suffered what they've suffered. And a lot of people in China, they don't because they have been separated over 70 years from their history. And this is something that we are at risk of if we allow our education system to continue where our history is wiped out, where like myself, having a very socialist education, I was being separated and being taught that this traditional art forms that I wanted to learn, I was told it's not worth learning.

It's not good anymore. You're better than that. You should be doing something different, something new, something greater than that. Lies. Those are all, I was being taught lies. So in China, this has happened for generations, a lot longer than what we've seen here.

So while I was making this movie, I wanted to understand the lies behind the regime and why they do what they do. So that's when I said, okay, I have to speak to some officials. I have to speak to someone who's done this.

I need someone to show me an electric baton and tell me how this works and how on earth they can put this on another human being. And I found them. And I did show them an electric baton and they did show me how it works.

And they explained how it works on a human being and what it does to the skin. And they explained it to me in such plain language. It was as if they were just baking bread. And I was absolutely shocked because I thought I knew.

I thought I knew about communism. I thought by that time that I thought I knew a lot more about China. But when you get close to the evil nature of the regime and realize what these people have been forced to do, it's quite shocking.

And so in the movie, Finding Courage, there's about two or three minutes in total of these mostly gentlemen. There's one woman as well who was willing to go on camera, many more who wouldn't go on camera.

But there was a few minutes of them in the movie and I think they really had a great impact in the movie to explain why the regime does what it does. I had so many people say to me after they watched the movie, I want to know more about those people.

I want to know why they do what they do and what's their story.

Why did they escape?

Why did they leave?

And I said, no, you don't and I don't want to tell you because I actually sat on this content for five years because I didn't want to release it. I just felt it was too devastating what's happened to the Chinese people and to the Chinese nation.

I felt it was I didn't see the hope in really sharing that here. But after the COVID, you know, COVID hit the US and everyone saw the lies coming out from the Chinese Communist Party and I follow the propaganda directives in China and I saw how they were lying directly from the CCP about COVID and how the lies spread here and how we were all affected by it.

Then I thought, okay, it's time to release this information because the hope is that we can learn from history. We have so many examples. But what we didn't have was something that showed what can happen on more of a psychological level to people, what makes them separate, what makes them willing to follow the regime.

And there have been some studies done in the past but not on people from China, not on the officials. So that's where I felt my studies could be helpful and that's why I wrote Who Are China's Walking Dead.

And before we open up to questions, I will tell you why I called the book that title. So in one interview very early on, I was interviewing, it was actually the police commissioner from Beijing. He was one of the officials who was in the Ministry of Security and in 1989 when the Tiananmen Square massacre happened in Beijing where 10 ,000 innocent citizens were killed, including many, many students, for peaceful protests asking for democracy.

And he was one of the officials in the ministry who pushed the button to send the tanks and the soldiers out onto the students and to kill them. And what did he do? He called his daughter and said, go out and watch.

She was in Beijing at the time. And he said, go and watch the slaughter.

And I said, what?

Why would you do that?

I'm a mother.

I would probably do what my parents did. I didn't want my children to see that. But he wanted his daughter to see that because he knew it would be covered up. And he was right. It was covered up. After 10 ,000 innocent citizens were killed in a very public way, and Chinese citizens knew it, it wasn't just 10 ,000 people on the square that day.

There was many, many more tens of thousands who weren't killed. There were also many more tens of thousands who had been to the square and participated in the protests over three months. It was a three-month protest.

And they knew that the students were innocent. But the whole country was forced to lie. And soon after the killing, the massacre, the CCP called it a political incident. And they still call it a political incident.

So they twisted the language. Instead of calling it a massacre, a killing, murderous situation, they called it a political incident. They still do to this day. Not only that, they held a show memorial on Tiananmen Square.

And I have footage of that in actually I described that in my book. And they, it was quite shocking to see this footage, but they had thousands and thousands of students on the square, very young students and soldiers.

And they came out to memorialise a few soldiers, just a few soldiers who were killed during that massacre that they called a political incident. They didn't hold a memorial for any of the students or innocent people.

And during this show memorial on the square, they made all the students cry out aloud that they pledged their lives to the motherland, they pledged their lives to the Chinese Communist Party, and they will give their all to the Chinese Communist Party.

And so this became something that was played nationwide for months on end where the citizens had to accept that this is the only way for them, which is a lie. It's an absolute lie that China can only exist with the Chinese Communist Party.

But many Chinese have come to accept that, that there is no other way. And so they saw, they knew that the Tiananmen Square massacre happened and that innocent students were killed, but they accepted the lies that came on the media across all channels for months on end.

And they forgot their history and they forgot what happened. They allowed the regime to rewrite their history. Now, this police commissioner, he told me, he said, we've become walking flesh, soulless bodies.

And I had a translation coming in simultaneously through an earpiece in my ear, and I never stop the interviews, very rarely, but I had to in this case. And I said, I asked the translator, please, can you help me understand this term because I don't like what I'm hearing.

And she said, yes, soulless bodies, walking corpses, soulless flesh. I said, how about walking dead? She said, yeah, yeah, that's a fair term. And I thought, well, we can understand that here. And that's why I titled this book, Who Are China's Walking Dead, because this is what they called themselves.

And so I didn't want to look into this term, but I'm a journalist, I have to. And so every other interview that I did after this gentleman, I would just ask, have you heard of this term? Oh, yes, they said, sure we have.

And so I found out that this is a term, walking dead, was a term that had been foreseen more than 50 years ago when communism came in and many Chinese scholars fled the nation because they saw that communism was completely atheistic and that it would destroy the culture because it would wipe out families and it would wipe out religion and faith.

And they said, we will become the walking dead. And that's what these officials, 70 years later, have said that they've become because they've had to essentially follow the lies of the regime and carry out things that they don't want to do, that they have to lie, cheat, steal, kill, torture, maim and hurt whenever they're called upon by the party because they put the party above their own lives.

And above the lives of others.

That's essentially what the socialist regime is, whether you call it communism or socialism, they have the same goal. And in China they're controlled by the Chinese Communist Party, but they say themselves they are a socialist state.

So my book, Who Are China's Walking Dead, is my journey in understanding these terms that have come out of a socialist country in the hope that we can avoid the same fate. And I really believe we can because here this country was founded, you know, as one nation under God.

And that is the foundation. But I'm very concerned when I see people losing hope, especially people of faith losing hope, because of everybody, we must maintain hope and be able to show that to others.

And that is absolutely something we must maintain and we must maintain our history, we must maintain our culture, we must maintain our language. And that's where I see a lot of hope that we can learn from the past and that's what I hope my book can express.

And in Finding Courage, it's an example of a family who stuck together and the family was able to overcome through their faith but through their family ties and overcome such great tyranny. That also gives me a lot of hope too.

So those are the two works that I wanted to present to you tonight as well as my story, and I hope that's been helpful. I would be very happy to answer any questions that you may have.

Q&A: Tiananmen Square, China Before Communism, and the Fate of Interview Subjects

Go ahead, Robin. That was really good. I remember Tin Man Square and I remember somebody saying, oh, there weren't that many people. When you said 10 ,000 people were killed, I'm like, no way.

Yes.

That's official numbers coming from an official inside China who leaked that. Those documents have been declassified. And yes.

For all these years, I never thought that many were killed. And actually a few years after it happened, somebody said to me, well, you know, they shouldn't have been out there. It was too early in the democracy movement.

They were pretty much blaming it. And I accepted that. You have really put a new perspective on China for me. I guess I just think of the Communist Chinese Party as my enemy. But Terri, you have to talk.

Okay.

Robin had a question. Was there a time that China wasn't communist? What was China like during that time? In your research, have you come across some things that you can describe it?

Yes.

China, the Chinese, it's quite amazing that the Chinese Communist Party has actually made the people of China believe that China as a nation began in 1949. China has been around for 5 ,000 plus years.

That's a long time. It's existed as a nation. It's had dynasty after dynasty after dynasty. And very, very faith-based, spiritual-based dynasties and emperors. And they've existed well before the Chinese Communist.

Party.

And they would exist very well without the Chinese Communist Party. But it's so interesting how the Chinese Communist Party has made the Chinese people believe. And I hear it from Americans too. I hear it all around the world where people say, well, what would happen to China without the Chinese Communist Party?

Wouldn't it be chaos? And I say, ah, that's exactly what the Chinese Communist.

Party said.

You're repeating their words. Where did you hear that? It's difficult because we are bombarded by media all the.

Time.

We're bombarded with narratives all the time. And we get stuck in this short-term thinking where we just read headlines and we don't question things and we don't discuss enough. We're always busy. We're always rushed.

And so we're always trying to cut corners. But the socialists, the communists, have a very long-term plan. So, yes, China has existed culturally with a very rich culture for a long, long time. And communism actually was really a Western import.

It's not a Chinese thing at all. And what did it do? The first thing it did was destroy Chinese culture and replace it with this atheistic culture that targets the family and faith. And that's what we're seeing the result of.

So, yes, it absolutely is. China existed well before the Chinese Communist Party, and I believe it will exist well after it as well.

And I'm thinking, as you're talking about that, I was dusting off some of the memories from our creation studies. Because we hear, we talk about dinosaurs and how we're sure that they were on the ark and how they died off after the flood.

And one of the ways that we know is a lot of stories from China of dragon legends and stuff. And Marco Polo visited. So, we've learned a lot of history that way too. So, it is interesting to think about that.