A Study in Projection: Responding to JD Hall

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:24

Greetings, welcome to The Dividing Line on a Monday. We have a lot to get to in this first hour.

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We're going to provide a response to some materials that have been posted that need a reply and then we're gonna take a break and then come back with Radio Free Geneva after that.

00:45

So there'll be two separate programs. We'll be able to distinguish them from one another. One will be more fun than the other.

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No two ways about it, but a few months ago, a number of memes appeared in social media due to the fact that Rosaria Butterfield had made some statements in regards to the

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Revoice material and some of the stuff that's going on at that particular point in time in regards to views on human sexuality, so on and so forth, and she made very strong statements about God's sovereignty over these issues, the authority of Scripture in these issues, and a lot of people picked up on it because a lot of people, like myself, have read her books and have appreciated her thoughtfulness.

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She does not engage in what I would call fundamentalist thinking.

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Fundamentalist thinking is the type of thought where you do not carefully follow categories.

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You do not take into consideration the possibilities of your own ignorance.

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You're never ignorant of anything. You always operate from a black -and -white worldview, where there's nothing that's complex.

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There's nothing that's difficult. There's no situation that is complicated. And so she doesn't come from that perspective and hence thinks things through very carefully, and you may disagree with her on certain issues, but one thing you're very, very certain of when you're listening to her is this is someone who has thought through these issues, and of course, what's encouraging to many of us is where she came from.

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We struggle to get Christians to think from a consistent worldview who don't maybe come from a really difficult background, but when you know what her background was, and if you've listened to many of her lectures, read her book, and if you've accessed our website, you'll find...

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I noticed that both Colin Smith and Jeff Downs a few years ago had articles that made reference to Rosaria's book and to my recommendation of it, and I on this program have mentioned when

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I read the book and the fact there was a large amount of humor in it.

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It's very well read, of course. She's a very good writer, but how I had been listening to it on a ride and how

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I often find... I chuckle when I think to myself how many times people may have seen me riding by and they hear me all of a sudden break into laughter and probably figure, boy, he's a weirdo.

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They're right, of course, but it had caused me to break into laughter numerous times as I was listening to it.

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Anyway, when you do those things, you are aware of how carefully she expresses herself.

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So I had seen those memes, and again, I was thankful. We live in a day where those who are willing to take a stand are a smaller and smaller group to take a thoughtful stand.

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Okay, I guess I need to parse that thing a little bit more closely. There's one thing.

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You will have people who take a stand with a flamethrower, and then you'll have those people who take a stand with thoughtful expression, and so I'm appreciative of those who do so with thoughtful expression.

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Well, I think that's probably what brought us to this day.

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To be honest with you, my assumption, anyway, and that is

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I think I wasn't the only one who saw those memes, and so on November 25th,

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I saw... I don't think it was sent to me. I think I actually saw it myself looking for something else.

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On November 25th, a article appeared on the

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Pulpit and Pen website by News Division, and it says, audio interview with Diane Gaskins about Rosaria Butterfield's subversive

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LGBT agenda. So the first thing we notice is that immediately whatever this is going to be about, its conclusion is right there in the title and in the following description.

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I would love to be able to tell you what this audio is, but as of this morning, the last time

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I checked, it remains behind a paywall. You have to buy this information.

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Evidently, the only people that are in danger of being deceived by Rosaria Butterfield's subversive

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LGBT agenda are the Patreon supporters of Pulpit and Pen. They seem to be the only one who need this information.

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Otherwise, it would be made available to everyone, but it hasn't been, at least as of this morning.

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So I read the three paragraphs. Rosaria Butterfield is, does not, okay, not edited well, but Rosaria Butterfield is, does not hold to conservative views on human sexuality.

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She is only a slightly more convincing version of Sam Albury. She is a radical leftist, as will soon be demonstrated through articles at PNP written by Dianne Gaskins.

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Yes, we recognize that Butterfield has branded herself as a conservative LGBTQ convert.

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However, Dianne has studied Butterfield's spoken words and read her material thoroughly and will demonstrate at the

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Rolex of Polemics blogs using Butterfield's own words that she bold print, she is a subversive plant in the conservative evangelical church, bold print end, and is just as progressive on homosexuality as anyone anyone at Revoice.

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Butterfield's work on hospitality has been a pivotal cog in the LGBTQ wheel on their journey to take over American Christianity.

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She is part of the plot. Do not be fooled by her. Now, anyone reading these words probably gets the general idea and thrust of what is going to be said.

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There is, there is nothing here really left to the imagination. So when

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I saw this, I rolled my eyes, and on November 27th at 8 57 a .m.

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I posted the following on on Facebook. Did you see the same thing

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I'm seeing? Live live response, I'd imagine. That's okay.

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What we're gonna be documenting No, but we're gonna be documenting no rational person can disagree with, so further further evidence of irrationality coming your way concurrently.

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So this is what I wrote on the 27th. We knew 2020 would be a wild year, right?

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Of course, the US presidential election alone would guarantee that, but there is so much else. Well, one thing is for sure, we did not need this kind of stuff.

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Now, I had posted a screenshot of what I just read to you. I'm so tired of the fundy reformed, if that can be a phrase.

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It's like Jack Chick read Pink's The Sovereignty of God and went down, went to town in cage stage, yet without ever maturing and growing out of it.

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Whatever scriptures we use, the result is ugly. But we keep glancing because it is like a never -ending theological car wreck.

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A couple of days ago, this warning appeared that once again makes us remember the nickname we have used in the past for pulpit and pen, slander and keyboard.

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I, for one, will be staying with Rosaria. Her courage of late to speak the truth and to face the growing compromise on these key issues has encouraged us all.

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Okay, those of us who are listening anyway. Her God -given wisdom must always be heard, not because she is infallible or knows all, but because she has the humility to bow to the authority of scripture in all of life.

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Besides, when she was at G3 a few years ago, she knitted while I spoke, so there's that. I have no earthly idea who

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Diane Gaskins is, to be honest. A quick search turned up associations with the usual suspects, all in the same camp,

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B -T -W -N and T -N -C -I, that's Bible Thumbing Wingnut, and the New Christian Intellectual. But let me put it plainly.

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If, and this word is not difficult to define, if the normal fundy associationalist tripe, together with piles of category errors and the always -present animus that marks

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PNP and its writers in general, is on the menu for this expose, I, for one, will be using my platform to call it out and set the record straight.

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So what did I say? Well, there is a long history, well -documented history, in regards to pulpit and pen and the groups of people that are huddling together in that particular corner of the internet and how they operate.

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We have documented many times the fact that Jordan Hall is not careful in dealing with categories, fairness.

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He is willing to judge people's hearts from afar without information. He believes he has a special gift of discernment that basically no one else has, which is a frightening thing and can be abused and has been abused many, many, many times in the past.

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And so, I would love to have listened to the audio, but as I pointed out, at the time

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I wrote this and as of this morning, that could have changed by now, but as of this morning, this audio, you had to pay to listen to.

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I'm not going to pay Jordan Hall anything. Not interested.

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When they get around to making this public information, and I sort of assume that, you know, a lot of people who do the

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Patreon thing will do an early release type thing for their followers.

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And then a few days later, it goes public and then everybody can listen to it. I figured that's probably what this was going to be as well.

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Didn't know. But again, this was posted the 25th, so it's been about a week or so.

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And so I said, if the normal fundee -associationalist tripe together...

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Now, what's associationalist? Associationalism is the the fundamentalist, well, you spoke at Church X, and this person spoke at Church X, and that person also spoke at a church where this heretic spoke.

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Therefore, you're a bad person. It is the degrees of separation thing.

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It is if you have... Well, of course, in fundamentalism, you define everything as a gospel issue.

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You know, we've played recordings from fundamentalists where, you know, on eschatology or whatever else it might be, fundamentalists have a very broad definition of what's absolutely definitional.

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And so if anyone looks different than you, or in this situation, if anyone has any differences from you, in viewing anything in regards to the challenges that we face today, from the homosexual community, from you know, transgenderism, whatever it might be, if anyone does not absolutely agree with you 100%, then they are part of the cabal.

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They are part of the plot. Don't be fooled by them. Use the language of the news division article.

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So what I said was, if this material is based on associationalism, well, she has spoken here, or she has said something about this person, or, and this is the big thing for public opinion, if this person does not call that person a heretic who's going to hell, then that makes you guilty of whatever it is that...

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whatever heresy you think that person is guilty of as well. That if that was what this review was going to be, then

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I would call it out. That then led to the posting the day before Thanksgiving of an article, and...

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well, not an article, the posting of audio that was titled, and I didn't...

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I thought I had grabbed this here, and I don't have it. They trolled through my social media feed.

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I found a picture that I had taken out when I was riding someplace, and it must have been an early morning ride, because I recognize the glasses.

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They're the photochromatic type, so you can wear them at night, and when the sun comes up, you know, you're not blind and don't have to carry two pairs of glasses when you're riding.

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So it's a... they've put the pulpit and pen logo on it, and it's meant to make me look goofy, because, as we will see, one of the things that Jordan Hall says is that I am a cyclist who once in a while does apologetics, and so that was that.

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But it was, if... the title was, If Ignorance and Arrogance Had a Love Child, and that's me.

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And this was all due to the fact that I dared to say that if this expose is nothing more than the same type of fundamentalist, associationalist, category -error -laden stuff that we have become accustomed to from pulpit and pen, that I would be calling it out, and of course, still will.

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Someone will get hold of it, and maybe if someone has it, they can get it to me, and then we can...

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we can go from there. But unlike some people, I don't live for this kind of stuff.

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There are other things we're doing, so... that we consider significantly more important, so I haven't attempted to be making phone calls and getting my people to do this, that, or the other thing.

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The material presented by Jordan Hall sets a new standard,

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I think, on the level... on many levels. I think what will be demonstrated is the fact that Jordan Hall has no limits.

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As to what he will publish, allege, assert, whether he has personal knowledge of the situation or not, he will...

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he will repeat any slander that is going to serve his purposes.

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Any... anything at all. He will... he has no... he has no... has no limitations. This is the current

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Jordan Hall. This is not how Jordan Hall has always been. There have been times in the past when there were still brakes on the vehicle.

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There was still some control. Those seemingly have...

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have all come off, and that's... that's no longer the situation, unfortunately.

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And so, I'm going to absolutely make

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Jordan's day by playing for you a good portion of what he said, because for Jordan, this is...

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this just... he already was on Facebook talking about his millions of followers.

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Yeah, here. I think this was yesterday, day for yesterday. He says,

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Y 'all, good luck on ignoring pulpit and pen and putting us out of business by acting like we're Voldemort. We can't be ignored.

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We've more influence than anyone in online Christian publishing. We have a million readers every month. Keep up that boycott strategy.

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It seems to have worked brilliantly. The fact is, our website and those of our many affiliates who are all growing and growing and growing is because our information is compelling and arguments are salient.

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You can't kill truth, and it won't be boycotted. We are thriving and will continue because this is a supply and demand issue.

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Supply of truth is low, so demand is high. The more you people whine and complain, the more people read us and are edified.

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Well, I just simply will invite the listening audience to define the term edification for themselves.

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I prefer defining it biblically, and you ask me if what we're going to listen to is...

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is edifying. If you define edifying as building up JD Hall's ego, that's one thing.

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Edification is something that we define a little bit more... a little bit more different than that.

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But just not playing the whole thing, obviously, because there was a whole section where JD spent time making himself look like the

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Apostle Paul. It was a really fascinating, fascinating study in how he views himself.

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But we won't be playing that. This is actually public, so you can... you can grab it if you want to.

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This was on the Bible Thumping Wingnut Network. But here are just a few of the segments.

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Oops, 1 .6 is gonna sound really funny. Here are a few of the segments from from the beginning of the program, and then we'll pick up from there.

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In this program, we're going to talk about a cyclist who sometimes, sometimes, is an apologist in Phoenix, having a hissy fit over an interview that I don't think he listened to with Diane Gaskins, about a topic that he is not familiar with, about a person whose material he has not read, because he is not a fair -minded, responsible apologist.

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He jumps to conclusions and is led by his ego, which is about the size of the

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Phoenix metropolitan area itself. So I'm going to be talking about James White at the tail end of the program, or maybe at the beginning.

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I don't know. We'll see. Thanks for joining us. This is the program with Sincerity. So, notice that, despite the fact that he has the interview behind a paywall, he faults me for not listening to it.

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So you need to pay this man. You need to give him the scratch. Give him the money.

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Don't you think there was plenty in what I read to respond to? I mean, don't you think the description, the three paragraphs, you know, don't you think there was enough there to respond?

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And that's all I was responding to. But, you know, bold. She is a subversive plant in the conservative evangelical church.

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You don't think there's something to respond to? Yeah, there, of course, there was. There was.

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So then, a few minutes later, after some advertisement and things like that.

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Talk about James White and his jumping to conclusions.

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Just jumping to conclusions. She is a subversive plant in the conservative evangelical church and is just as progressive on homosexuality as anyone we've voiced.

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Who's jumping to the conclusions again here? I didn't write this. That's what

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I was responding to. And I posted the whole thing for everybody to look at it. What we're gonna be demonstrating is that the holes, logically, in J .D.

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Hall's thinking are big enough to drive semi -tractor trailers through. And this is what happens when you only do monologues.

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When it's you and your platform. You develop this.

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When you actually have to interact with people regularly, you're a little more hesitant to make this kind of argument because it's so vacuous.

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And the fact that he has no idea what he's talking about has a bitter grudge against pulpit and pen.

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And time after time after time, James White has proven himself nonsensical and ignorant regarding the topics that he's speaking of.

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And he needs to do the work of an apologist carefully. He needs to research topics before he opens his mouth about it.

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And he needs to understand the content and the subject matter that he's trying to present to the audience or else he will, through his podcast, be crossing land and sea making converts that are twice as ignorant as he is.

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He's smart about some things that doesn't mean that he has learned about all things. And so maybe he ought to leave polemics to the experts and he can focus on how to make friends in mosques and not ever convert anyone ever to Jesus from Islam, but proves himself valuable in reaching

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Muslims with, I don't know, friendship or some garbage. That's his forte. Let him focus on that.

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We'll do what we do. So I'm gonna stand up for Dianne Gaskins, who he has decided to attack for apparently no reason at all in his ignorance.

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Anyways, we'll get to all of that in just a moment. Did you miss the attack on Dianne Gaskins?

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I read you the entirety of what I said and I said, never heard of her.

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The only things I found that she was written about were things for Bible Thumbing and Wingnut and the New Christian Intellectual.

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I can't attack someone whose stuff I haven't heard yet because J .D. Hall won't make it publicly available and wants you to pay him money to get to hear this earth -shaking, massively important stuff.

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the last portion of the program was also supposed to be behind a paywall. It was his intention to do the attack on me in the

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Patreon thing. So if you're a supporter, then you get to hear this. But he decided, he must have just been so proud of how it turned out that he went ahead and made it publicly available.

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And so I just just want to point out, once you hear this, you've already heard enough, but once you hear this and you hear the attitude portrayed by Pastor J .D.

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Hall, I would just wonder, are his advertisers aware of his behavior?

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Black Robe Rifles, Crown and Cross Books, are they, they really want to be supporting

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J .D. Hall attacking Christian ministers in this way, or Rosaria Butterfield in this way, or the other people who will be named in what you're about to hear?

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And in fact, this particular episode was sponsored by Gordon and Sue Kreiderman, and they want to thank all faithful pastors.

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And I just really wonder if they listened, and when they hear J .D. behaving the way that he behaves in attacking

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Christian pastors, who have been Christian pastors longer than J .D. Hall has been a

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Christian pastor, I wonder, I just wonder what they think when they when they hear that kind of thing.

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Interesting, interesting. It's already 1 .27, so I'm going to go to 1 .2.

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Just so everybody knows, it'll be a little bit faster, but the only way to get through this material here is, you know,

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I may have to stop and start. I doubt I'm gonna be able to get through all of it without stopping and starting, but here we go.

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James White, we did, as you know, if you've been listening, I did a Patreon interview with Diane Gaskins, where we got into just a little bit the problem with Rosaria Butterfield, just one thing that she's discovered in her expose about Rosaria.

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I've explained to you how her work on hospitality is driven from the LGBTQ concept of affirmation, and that her view...

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Now, by the way, I'm gonna title this program, A Study in Projection. Projection is where you project onto others the things you yourself are doing.

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Keeping that in mind, I remember the first person I met that just absolutely illustrated projection perfectly years and years and years ago on Phytonet, a woman by name of Sue Weidemark.

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Yes, rich remembers, Sue Weidemark. JD reminds me of Sue Weidemark in many ways.

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And what you're gonna hear is me being accused of everything that JD does.

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So, a bunch of things he's gonna say that he's gonna drag out are things that he has absolutely decided.

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He is extremely focused upon being right. I was right about this, and I was right about the

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Pope. I don't know anything about South American liberation theology, but I was right about him, and White was wrong.

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And he, he, this is a man who's, to my knowledge, has never debated the leading Roman Catholic apologists, doesn't know, never read

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Eve's Congress, doesn't know anything about what he's talking about, but that won't stop him. He is absolutely convinced of his incredible correctness about everything.

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And so, you're gonna hear him accusing me of ignorance, and I'm ignorant of many things.

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These issues I was not ignorant of. He's gonna say that I have no idea what Rosario Butterfield teaches, and I've not read it.

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I've not read any of it. How, how would he know that? I mean, how does he, how does he know what

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I have or have not read? He states these types of things with such incredible, well, we might not kindly call it confidence.

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Some people would call it arrogance. But he, he makes these, these, these accusations, and then, then he will just go low.

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He will go as low as he can go, because I think he knows he can only go so long with his audience before getting some below -the -belt shots in to keep their attention.

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And that's what he's, that's what he's gonna do. So just, this is gonna be a study in projection. See how many times, and then when finally something is said where he tries to substantiate some of the stuff that was in the article about Rosario, notice what he does.

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Notice what the argument's gonna be. It's gonna be associationalism. Exactly what

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I, exactly on the nose what I said it would be, that's what he argues. It's like, it's like he doesn't even realize he's doing it.

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I, I don't think that he does. The JD I knew years, years ago would have, but I don't know that there's much of that JD left.

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On homosexuality and same -sex attraction, it's not altogether different than Sam Albury. The danger is she's smarter than the glitter -covered peacock fairies at Revoice, and she has snuck in, privily, into the church, and there are some leaders who don't know her schtick, because they've not read her material.

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Now, let me just point out there are numerous leaders with decades and decades and decades more experience than JD Hall will ever have in his life, who have read her materials.

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She is a part of a church. She's a part of a very conservative church. She's under elders.

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JD doesn't care about any of that stuff. That's, that stuff's irrelevant. That, that doesn't, that doesn't matter, because he, well,

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JD has deep personal animus toward Rosaria. I happen to know that personally.

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Doug Wilson, Tom Askell, Tom Buck, and James White are just some of those. That's not a bad group, Ian. I'll, I'll, we will all together say that JD Hall has no idea what he's talking about on this subject, and we'll let you decide who, who to believe on that.

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And remember, I asked Askell and White politely to please know what you're talking about before you discuss it.

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Now remember, for JD Hall, know what you're talking about means agree with me, because I am the standard.

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That, that's what, know what you're talking about. What? Yeah, yeah,

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I'm not sure what, what, yeah, politely? Yeah. I asked them about that with critical, I asked them about critical race theory, and I'm gonna move my mic just a second.

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I need to ask them to do that when it comes to Rosaria Butterfield or same -sex attraction. What we're going to release, and we haven't done it yet,

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Diane has done a great deal of research, it will indicate, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that she is maybe a slightly better version of Sama Albury.

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When I say better, I mean better at doing what Sama Albury does, not better for us. Her views are the same. She's more sinister and more subversive, and her material is being used to promote the worst of the worst.

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The worst of the worst. But James White, who has been wrong about the Pope, James White claimed that when the

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Pope said the cross is a failure, that we took him out of context. The Pope said it again a few weeks later in the same context.

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He continues to say it. He said it again this year. He means it, no matter what context he says it in. He means it the way exactly he says it.

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Now here, here's the fundamentalist is coming out, because J .D. Hall does not understand Roman Catholic theology, does not understand liberation theology, doesn't understand

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Southern American liberation theology, as it's morphed into the Jesuit form, and he has no idea.

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He's, he's clueless. And, but he's proud of being clueless, because he doesn't care about that.

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The Pope said something he can use. This Pope is a heretic from our perspective, obviously.

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He's a heretic from their perspective, and he's trying to make an issue out of something that nobody in their right mind is gonna make an issue out of, because there are far more important things to go on.

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But again, it's that fundamentalist attitude. I have to be right. I'm right about everything.

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So I don't care what the context in his world would be, or what he means by it, and I don't care if it would actually help me to reach

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Roman Catholics, or not help me to reach more Roman Catholics. That, that part doesn't matter. I'm right.

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I, I'm right about everything, and he was wrong, and that's just all there is to it. And so I just, okay, take the guy in the cowboy hat, look at everything he's written on Roman Catholicism, look at all his debates on Roman Catholicism, look at all the years of teaching on Roman Catholicism, look at the times he's debated in Roman Catholic churches against Roman Catholic priests, take that, compare it with my, my own having done all of those things, and make up your own mind.

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Look at the books that each one of us have written on these subjects, on whether it's Justification by Faith, Sola Scriptura, Roman Catholic Controversy, then look at all of his books on that subject, of which there are none, of course.

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But compare them, and see for yourself. Make, make a decision for yourself.

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It, that's, that's, that's the easiest thing to do. James White was demonstrably wrong, he won't recant. James White was demonstrably wrong about the booze and tattoos.

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We just said, all we did, all we did, was urge people to use caution when it comes to matters of Christian liberty.

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It's, if it's, if it's adiaphora, it means that we should just discuss whether or not it's right or wrong, not necessarily that, like, in other words, it's debatable, so let's debate it.

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I mean, that's what it means to be Christian liberty. It's debatable. So, is it a good recovery environment for addicts and alcoholics to include and associate booze with the church, as happened at the fundraisers in which they sold booze and tattoos?

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James White and Jeff Durbin got on his program, accused us of yellow journalism, not knowing what we were talking about.

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It's the perfect recovery environment. While at that same time, James' son -in -law was having sex with a woman, not his wife, who had fallen off the wagon, and he was the one at the center of the tattoo video.

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Then his father -in -law, or rather his dad, Summer's father -in -law, came out and blamed James White and Apologia Church for throwing booze in his son's face, even knowing that he had been an alcoholic, or was an alcoholic.

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So, he has massive egg on his face where James White is dare going to accuse pulpit and pen of being fundamentalist, legalist.

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It's a perfect recovery environment. Perfect. Sir, your daughter went through three last names in one year because you were wrong about Apologia Church being a good recovery environment.

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So, maybe, just maybe, shut your mouth and stop making accusations about fundamentalism. You know what?

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My daughter hasn't got three last names in one year. I didn't defend a church as a positive recovery environment, while behind my back, my son -in -law was being an addict and a drunk.

36:57

So, just admit you're wrong sometimes, James White. Just admit you're wrong sometimes. Okay. For everyone going, that's all.

37:03

Okay, so, notice how low JD will go. Most people have been shocked by that.

37:11

The man has no worthy idea what he's talking about. He is taking the testimony of unbelievers. Here is a man who is a pastor, who knows that dealing with situations like this is not only heartbreaking, but it requires personal knowledge of what's going on.

37:25

He is willing, from afar, in his ignorance, to slander others, to slander fellow ministers in a way that is absolutely, utterly disqualifying.

37:36

He has no worthy idea what he's talking about. He is lying, but is lying based upon just so much ignorance?

37:44

Because he wasn't here. He doesn't, he has no idea what the actual facts are. None. Zero.

37:51

But the scary thing is, he would love to get more dirt if he could dig it. What kind of a person spends his or her life thinking like this, every day, from morning till night?

38:06

That cannot be a happy place to be. That is a destructive place to be.

38:13

And I am one of a number of people who have tried, have tried, to warn this man, because we've seen him going this direction for a long time.

38:24

I think we failed. I think we failed. He has no idea what he's talking about.

38:31

He, we, Jeff did come into the studio. We talked about, was that 2016 or 2017? I think it was 2016.

38:39

Sounds about right. 2016. We came in here, we provided the first -hand information, as much as could possibly be done while doing things correctly.

38:51

You can go back, and those programs are still available. You can look at them yourselves.

38:57

We gave the timeline, because we were actually here, and actually had the information that he does not have.

39:03

But here, this is what I mean. And let me say this to anyone who is getting associated with J .D.

39:12

Hall. You need to understand, we were once on the same side of things.

39:20

But if you do not tow his line, he will come after you with everything you've ever said to him.

39:31

Don't tell him anything, that you do not want to have twisted, and turned, and then posted on the

39:39

Internet. You just need to realize, if you're hitching your star to him, you are hitching your star to someone who will demand absolute loyalty.

39:52

You will never be able to disagree on anything. Just, just be prepared. Just be aware.

39:58

Listen to what's going on. Listen to what he's willing to do. In light of things he's said, just listen to how far he's gone now.

40:07

How far will he go in the future, is the question. And for everyone going, that's a low blow. I'm tired of his garbage.

40:15

He promised, through Rich Pierce, that Hanegraaff had a good reason for absconding to the Eastern Orthodox faith, that wasn't, he was leaving

40:23

Christianity. He had a good reason. If you don't mind.

40:29

Yeah, you got, you got thrown in there too. I'd like to take the screen for a moment.

40:35

Oh, the whole screen? The Rich Cam on Max. Yeah. Yeah. In, if I recall, shortly after the first week after Hank had been charismated,

40:50

I read the story that, I believe it was Seth Dunn? Sounds familiar.

40:56

I wanted to. Had written regarding it, and for a long time before that,

41:04

I had had the opinion, privately, that, and I was, by the one, by the way, the one who put that label there, and before I said it publicly, and I've discussed this on this show before,

41:17

I got on the phone with Jordan Hall, and I told him. You contacted him, huh? I believe it was me, and by the way, when he says that you sent me, that's false, and I told him at the time that I am one who has opinions that are of my own, and that oftentimes you've told me, avoid

41:38

Jordan, don't go there, and you know, I don't always take that advice, and I put my headset on, which

41:48

I know has a tendency to drown out the other person on the other end of the line, and I let

41:54

Mr. Hall know in no uncertain terms that it was my opinion, and I still hold to this opinion, that he and his organization are yellow journalists, and this recounting on his part is a bold -faced lie.

42:13

I considered Hank Hanegraaff's moving to the

42:18

Eastern Orthodox Church to be an act of apostasy, but at the time

42:23

I was contacting him, I read the story that was written, and was basically telling him, you are reporting facts that you don't have yet.

42:33

We are still waiting on a lot of information. You have half of the story, you are extrapolating information from that half of the story, and you are drawing conclusions and reporting them as facts that are based purely on speculation.

42:52

It is my clear memory that I said to him, you take the few facts that you do have and extrapolate additional information from them via speculation, and his response was,

43:06

I have that right. Oh yeah, he thinks it's a gift. And I replied, you don't have that right to report a full story with only half of the facts.

43:18

You see, I sought to rebut reality versus speculation. I wanted to know the true reason, and I still don't know that we do have the true reason why

43:28

Mr. Hanegraaff did what he did. But the fact of the matter is, is that Jordan Hall's recounting of this story, where he said that, where did

43:41

I have that note? He said that, I said to him that Hank had good reasons.

43:48

There are no good reasons to go to Eastern Orthodoxy. It is an apostasy.

43:54

And folks, I'm looking you square in the eye, and I'm telling you, this is yellow journalism at its core.

44:02

He, as the news division, is reporting this to you as news.

44:09

This is not news, and it is a, it's a defamation to me that he's put these words in my mouth that I would never say, and if you doubt me, go back to the programs where I have addressed this in the past, and you will find that what

44:27

I've just told you is entirely consistent with what I've said before. Well, and it's entirely consistent with what

44:32

I said. see, and obviously what happened in that particular situation is fundamentalists especially have next to no ability whatsoever to distinguish between Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism.

44:50

And so when I made the necessary category distinctions that serious scholarship has to make to differentiate between the two, they read into that all sorts of, you know, you're being soft, da -da -da -da -da.

45:04

You know, this is how fundamentalists think. This is how they operate. They don't have any other way of doing it.

45:10

So yeah, and I did not ask Rich to contact. Like he said,

45:16

I'm normally like, just let's minimize our contact with Jordan Hall as best we can.

45:23

If it's necessary, then like this situation, then we will do so. And in case you're just joining us,

45:31

Jordan's doing a live response while we're speaking.

45:38

Nothing like giving an answer before the case is finished. Which we're being accused of.

45:47

Hey, Jordan, have you brought that audio out from behind a paywall, or you still want people to give you money?

45:53

So that's a question. Okay, let's we got to get through this because we're running really short on time, and I'm not sure

46:01

I'm gonna make it. What is that reason? No, he was wrong, wasn't he? So White says on his

46:06

Facebook page, We knew 2020 would be a wild year, right? Of course. The United States presidential election alone would guarantee that, but there's so much else.

46:13

But one thing is for sure. We did not need this kind of stuff. I'm tired of the, quote, Fundy reformed, if that can even be a phrase.

46:18

First of all, it can be a phrase. Now you use Fundy as a pejorative. Probably because you are in a midlife crisis.

46:25

You have tattoo sleeves down to your wrists like a punk child who draws on themselves.

46:32

It's lame, James. Do you drive a Mazda Miata to Really? I bet he does.

46:38

Grow up. Did you catch that? I think I think he was gonna stop there. And then he said I better say

46:44

I think he does. No, I don't don't don't don't even know what a

46:49

Mazda Miata is to be perfectly honest with you. I have a Subaru Forester. Thank you very much, and really like it. It's a great great car and With the condition of the parking lot here, it's actually sort of nice to have four -wheel drive,

47:05

R -wheel drive. Whatever you call it. It's very nice right now. But no, anyway, so we let's let's continue.

47:11

We don't we don't want to stop the slander fest. Yes, you can be fundamentalist and reformed. Have you ever?

47:17

Oh, by the way, when I defined my issues with fundamentalism, I was talking about how they think.

47:26

The difficulty in category issues, the Expansion of What is definitional at the expense of Adi Afra and and things like that had nothing to do with a midlife crisis or anything else.

47:41

Remember, this is a man who is Making these comments having trolled

47:48

Someone else's social media feed to find the goofiest picture you can of them. What does that tell you about a person's motivations?

47:57

Maybe they're in the midlife crisis. Hmm, I don't know. Met someone from Arbca? Mercy's sakes.

48:04

Oh, no, wait a minute. Drives me nuts. Yes, you can be fundamentalist and reformed. Have you ever met someone from Arbca?

48:10

Mercy's sakes. Yes, have I ever met anyone from Arbca? Yeah. Yeah, you know,

48:17

I think I've spoken it probably a hundred times as many Arbca churches as you have,

48:24

I think, probably. And You're missing the fundy part because you are one and so you don't get it.

48:34

That's that's where you've really changed over the past couple years is you used to get it. Now, you don't get it anymore.

48:40

Drives me nuts. If you use fundamentalist as an insult, go join, I'll tell you what, James Moore, You know, I take it back.

48:46

This isn't gonna be patreon. I'm just gonna leave this for everybody. Everybody's gonna listen to this. James White needs one of those two -seat bicycles

48:55

So that he and Beth Moore can ride around together complaining about fundamentalists because they sound exactly alike.

49:02

Anyone who can think like that is not thinking very well.

49:11

I have been critical of Beth Moore. Can someone please explain where I've said anything?

49:20

Well, you both complain about fundamentalists. Well, when she talks about fundamentalists, she's talking about me specifically.

49:29

So, I have been very clear, very specific in identifying the exact issues.

49:38

Associationalism, the diminishment of Adiaphora, the expansion of what is absolutely definitional to a large number of things, the mindset that is afraid of difference, of not allowing for difference, of demanding that you...

50:00

Well, look at what Jordan Hall does every single day on Pulpit and Pen, demanding that the approach...

50:08

See, it's not enough for us to say, you know, this neo -marxism is bad. What he's saying is, and the only way to approach it is my way.

50:19

And if you take any other way, then you're one of them. It's the division. You have to be either completely with me or, you're out there.

50:29

There's no way God could use somebody who's saying anything any differently than me. That's the fundamentalism

50:34

I'm talking about. That's what we're talking about. And it's destructive. James says,

50:42

I'm so tired of the fundy reformed. I bet, I bet, because the fundy reformed, like Robert Truelove, are kicking your tail up and down the debate octagon, which you refuse to have.

50:55

Notice the twisting of reality. Who's willing to have the debate? Who's willing to name the other side?

51:00

Who's willing to quote the other side? I am. So, I mean, it's a lie. I debate

51:06

Riddle, Truelove. I challenge them to debate. And for J .D. Hall, you refuse to debate.

51:12

It's just a lie. But it went, once you start getting this emotional and wrapped up in your own correctness, you just start spewing stuff out there that's just, that's just absolutely silly.

51:25

As I was listening to this, I, the thought kept going through my mind regarding the love of the brethren.

51:34

And how that is so missing from this. Well, obviously, let's, let,

51:42

I mean, we've, we've, we've covered all that before, but, but, just, it just keeps resounding. But it is interesting that he'd mentioned

51:48

Robert Truelove when I posted that comment from Truelove agreeing with Ehrman about a, an anonymous slanderous report about my behavior at a 2014 debate in South Africa, which immediately two brothers by name in South Africa said didn't happen.

52:07

Yeah. But Robert Truelove said, yep, sounds about right, you know, so there, there you go.

52:13

Oh, by the way, J .D. Hall has zero academic training in that field.

52:20

None. He's never taught a class. He's never written a book. He's never done anything. But he's certain that I've been getting kicked all over the place.

52:28

It's a, the, the bias and prejudice of this man is astonishing. And if he had anyone around him, that could rein him in, that could say,

52:40

J .D., dude, he, really? I can really back that. Yeah, but he doesn't.

52:47

He doesn't. He's surrounded by, by yes -men, because anybody else has already run for the hills.

52:54

And so there's nobody to say, you know, you're, you're sort of missing it here. The debate octagon, which you refuse to have, but, you know, like, like in the marketplace of ideas, they're whooping you.

53:05

I listened to the text in Canon Conference. You didn't hardly address it. They demolished your perspective.

53:11

I still agree with James White. I'm not KJV or TRO, but they wiped the floor with them. It's embarrassing.

53:16

If I was him, I'd be tired of them, too, because their arguments, especially that riddle, were incredibly compelling.

53:22

Wow. He says, quote, It's like Jack Chick read Pink's The Sovereignty of God and went down, or went to town in cage stage, yet without ever maturing and growing out of it.

53:32

Random insults. Throw some insults in there. Oh, you're not familiar with how to do that.

53:39

That's, that's actually a description of the kind of fundamentalism that is so reprehensible.

53:46

It's not consistent with Reformed theology. That's the point. Reformed theology is a theology of grace.

53:51

When you combine fundamentalism with Reformed theology, see, JD thinks he can do this. JD is admitting,

53:58

Jordan Hall is admitting, that he is attempting to create something that historical

54:04

Reformed theology had no knowledge of, and that is this Reformed fundamentalism.

54:13

Whatever descriptors we use, the result is ugly, but we keep glancing because it's like a never -ending theological car wreck.

54:18

No, they keep glancing because they find what, like, readers find what they see at pulp and pen to be compelling.

54:26

That's why. It's compelling. It's truth. It's a supply and demand economy. It's supply -side economics.

54:32

That's what it is. Supply -side economics. That's a fascinating perspective.

54:38

That basically gives you the idea that you can say whatever you want to say about anyone, and people are just gonna buy it.

54:48

Was there something there? Yeah, because we're going, we're gonna, we're gonna end up going over time. I know, I know. We make plans in our heart.

54:58

I point out, JD pointing out how many millions of followers he's got. Folks, if you come to aomen .org,

55:07

you will not find ads. No. You will not find the AdSense accounts on our

55:13

YouTube channel. You won't find them. We are supported by our donors. Period.

55:18

Full stop. That's it. Okay? Every time you hit pulpit and pen,

55:25

Bible thumping wingnut, every time you hit those websites, they receive money from a secular business.

55:34

You need to think on that. I know I keep thinking on the business angle of things, but that's part of what

55:40

I do here. Okay, and so I see the business angle. I see the question of what they call income streams.

55:47

And there's a whole bunch of them over there. There's a whole bunch of them. I defy them to take them all away and survive the end.

55:59

That's why they read pulpit and pen. So anyways, he says a couple days ago this warning appeared that once again makes us remember the nickname that we've used in the past for PNP.

56:06

SNK, that is slander and keyboard. All right. I for one will be standing with Rosaria.

56:12

Let me stop there. He doesn't know what the accusations are against Rosaria. Yes, I do.

56:17

Let me repeat them since you seem to have forgotten what you wrote. She is a subversive plant in the conservative evangelical church, just as progressive and homosexual as any other voice.

56:27

She is part of the plot. Do not be fooled by her. How could you forget this stuff? Or are you just assuming that your readers are just so blinded by your zealous leadership that they're gonna believe whatever it is you have to say?

56:41

You made plenty of accusations in your introduction to the audio that you then demand people pay you money to listen to.

56:52

That's what this is about. And your response, your unhinged response says a lot and it's gonna get more unhinged.

57:04

And I'm sorry for tuning in for Radio Free Geneva. We're gonna get to it. Sorry. I should have figured this was gonna take longer than this, than an hour, but there you go.

57:15

That's how it is. We didn't get into them in depth in the podcast, but it's a Patreon only podcast, so I don't know how he could have listened to it.

57:24

But even if he did, it's not there. This is prejudging. This is James White saying, regardless of what the evidence is against Rosaria.

57:31

And you know this numbskull has not read her books. James White, get on your program and say, like, in honesty, that at this point when you made this

57:39

Facebook post, you've read Rosaria's books. I've read Rosaria's books. How's that? I've listened to her lectures.

57:46

I've met with her. Okay, so if you had done your research, you would have found that on our website, sir.

57:58

We can turn this around if you want to turn it around. Not do it.

58:04

He has not read Rosaria's books. I stand with Rosaria, everybody. Is this eighth grade?

58:11

That is a good question that many people asking are listening to you, sir. And you don't seem to realize it.

58:17

You're making this easy. This is like shooting ducks on a pond. James White writing a burn book?

58:25

I just want everybody to know I stand with Rosaria Butterfield. I stand with my friend against that mean puppet.

58:31

Why don't you stop and wait and see what the accusations are? She is a subversive plant in the conservative evangelical church.

58:43

Is not an accusation. Yeah, there you go.

58:48

As we detail for you who she endorses in her book, the language that she uses, because it is,

58:53

I'm telling you, it is out of your mind crazy. It's really, really bad, but he's just gonna say just right off the bat,

59:02

I stand with Rosaria. How many times does James White have to be on the wrong side of an issue just because Pulpit and Pen is on the other side for him to figure out that's a bad idea and he's going to shoot himself in the face?

59:13

The Hardings did that. You want to know how Aaron and I forget her wife's name, but Mr. And Mrs.

59:18

Aaron Harding. You know how they became so radically liberal? They just decided to take the opposite side of Pulpit and Pen on any given issue and now they're woke social justice warriors.

59:28

Same thing goes for Dr. White. We could say black. He'd say white. We'd say, you know, we'd say sound theologian and he would say

59:35

Michael Brown, you know. He's going to be the opposite of Pulpit and Pen. I stand with Rosaria.

59:41

You don't even know what the accusations are. You don't know her books, her material. He says, quote, her courage as of late to speak the truth in the face of the glowing compromise on these key issues has encouraged us all.

59:52

Great. She spoke truth recently on that one issue. Have you read her book? See, James White has this simplistic mindset.

59:59

He's not a deep thinker. He's really not. He's easily fooled. He's terribly naive. Like we're saying, for example, look at what

01:00:06

Moeller is doing and James White can't get past, look what Al Moeller has said. By the way, last night, disconnection, but last night on CrossPolitik, you need to listen to last night's

01:00:27

CrossPolitik episode. Doug Wilson was on and Doug Wilson was asked, did you get a chance to?

01:00:34

Doug Wilson was asked about Al Moeller and his response really excellently encompasses where I've been on this subject.

01:00:48

We've not talked about it. But it really does. So this silliness aside, for those who are serious about these things,

01:01:00

I thought Doug's response and his interaction, because there was pushback.

01:01:07

It wasn't just a monologue. It was a good dialogue because there was pushback. There's different views amongst the guys there as to what's going on in the

01:01:16

SBC and stuff like that. So last night's CrossPolitik episode, look it up. Grab it.

01:01:22

It's on YouTube. The whole thing was very, very interesting, but especially, and that was right toward the end, but especially that, the whole thing was really good.

01:01:33

He doesn't understand people can operate on two different levels because they have two hands. So in other words, this is his everybody different than me, all these guys, they're just lying.

01:01:45

What they say and what they do are two different things. I'm the one that gets to determine this. I can judge people's hearts from afar.

01:01:54

This is where you see where the politics destroys any possibility whatsoever of grace amongst

01:02:04

Christians. This is what it is. And this is why we said we will not be a part of that.

01:02:12

We cannot be a part of that. We must be consistent. And we will be. And we're glad that Jordan is helping to make that differentiation.

01:02:21

It's a distraction. It's a magic trick. Look at what I'm doing over here on the right hand, but my left hand is over here. He doesn't understand the biblical concept of being double -minded.

01:02:28

He doesn't understand cognitive dissonance. He doesn't understand that someone can say the right things, but do the wrong things. All he knows is

01:02:34

Rosaria had a few good one -liners about the Revoice guys, and so she has courage to speak truth lately, uh -huh, on the back of the book.

01:02:42

A few good one -liners. So in other words, it doesn't matter how costly those quote -unquote one -liners were in our society.

01:02:55

That's not enough. His motivations will be made clear over time.

01:03:04

But I want you to catch here, because ready for the associationalism? Ready for exactly what

01:03:09

I predicted? On the back of the book, why don't you take a look at who endorsed it?

01:03:16

Let that give you a moment of pause. Ah, yes, I remember in 1998, almost, why goodness, that's 21 years ago, isn't it?

01:03:29

I remember in 1998, I had a book come out. See, these are books back here.

01:03:36

I may not read them, but I guess I write them, and I had a book come out called

01:03:42

The Forgotten Trinity. Norman Geisler, John Armstrong, J .I.

01:03:47

Packer, Gleason Archer, John MacArthur, Father Mitchell Pacwa.

01:03:54

He's a Jesuit. See, associationalism.

01:04:00

Associationalism. That's the fundamentalist mindset. Associationalism. Look, look, it's on the back.

01:04:08

And if you agree on anything, then you must agree on everything. Associationalism. Exactly what

01:04:14

I predicted. Boom! Documents it for me. Thank you, J .D. Appreciate that.

01:04:20

Appreciate your providing that evidence. To consider that maybe she's not on our team.

01:04:26

He says her God -given wisdom must always be heard, not because she is... What? All I can say is

01:04:34

James White's really gonna regret that statement. He'll dig in and be wrong, like he always is. Every time

01:04:39

Baldwin Penn argues with James White, he is proven wrong. Every time. Provenly wrong. This man's infallible.

01:04:44

If you don't believe that, let's just call up Chad Pinch and ask. All right? He's provenly wrong.

01:04:51

Her God -given wisdom must always be heard. The God -given wisdom in which KSP is her best friend.

01:04:58

Yeah, oh, she's a wise one. Because she has the humility to bow to the authority of Scripture in all of life.

01:05:04

Ooh, are they dating? This is like makeup. Did you catch it? Are they dating?

01:05:10

That's... so when I say that in reading her books, one of the things that struck me in her conversion story was the same thing that struck me in the conversion story of so many other people.

01:05:28

And that is this submission to Scripture. The necessary...

01:05:35

I had my worldview, but Scripture said this, and this is

01:05:40

God's revelation, and I had to bow to that, no matter how costly it was. I say that, and listen to this man's response.

01:05:49

Because she has the humility to bow to the authority of Scripture in all of life. Ooh, are they dating? Are they dating?

01:05:55

This is like makeout language. Besides, when she was at G3... This is like makeout language.

01:06:02

And this is the man who said 8th grade? I don't remember 8th grade, but he's still living in it.

01:06:08

That's for sure. ...years ago, she knitted while I spoke. So there's that. Okay. I have no earthly idea who

01:06:13

Dianne Gaskins is, to be honest. A quick search term... ad hominem here. A quick search...

01:06:19

Notice the ad hominem here. So if you identify Bible -thumping wingnut and the new

01:06:24

Christian intellectual, that's ad hominem argumentation? Yeah, well, it tells you where she's coming from.

01:06:31

A quick search term... ad hominem here. A quick search turned up associations with the usual suspects all in the same camp,

01:06:37

Bible -thumping wingnut, TNCI. Not sure what that is. Not sure what that is. Hey, Cody.

01:06:44

Cody, you need to tell your boss. But let me put it plainly.

01:06:49

If the normal fundee -associationalist tripe together... Did he say if? He read the word if.

01:06:56

It didn't register. But he read the word if. ...with piles of category errors, and always -present animus...

01:07:03

He doesn't say what these are. What are the category errors? How could I? You've got it behind a paywall.

01:07:10

I'm saying, if this is what comes out, then this is what I'm going to do. How can you not understand this?

01:07:16

You do understand this, J .D. You're just... You had nothing else to do. You were just so angry that someone would stand with Rosaria because you have such animus toward her.

01:07:27

We all know it. I was at G3, remember? We all know you're animus.

01:07:34

Who has animus here? I don't know who Diane Yaskins is, but I see who she's associated with.

01:07:41

Can he quote me without that voice? I don't think so. Do you think so? I don't think so.

01:07:47

I don't think he can. I think you actually have some... You actually have several voices that he uses, and I don't want to actually speculate on the source of where those voices come from.

01:07:58

No, I never said that. Okay. So I'm going to judge her immediately. Is this how a wise and a prudent man makes judgment?

01:08:05

I wasn't judging anybody. I was saying, if this, then that. Again, fundamentalists struggle with conditional sentences because that's a gray area, because it sort of enters into...

01:08:17

That's why I don't like the subjunctive voice in New Testament Greek. I just really would rather the

01:08:22

King James was translated without the subjunctive. Is this how a wise man judges all things? No. It's like,

01:08:27

Rosaria is good because we're told that Rosaria is good. I'm told that Rosaria is good, but we like her.

01:08:34

Right. Genius, James. Genius. If the normal fundee -associationalist trite together with piles of category errors and always present animus that marks

01:08:42

P &P and its writers in general is on the menu for this expose, I, for one, will be using my platform to call it out and set the record straight.

01:08:47

By the way, I just want to throw this out there. I think it's an odd day and time when true Reformed Baptists, I'm talking about Arbica -type 1689 confessional

01:08:56

Baptists, they despise James White these days. I want you to know that he's lost his argument. They like me more than they like James White.

01:09:02

And that's saying something. Okay. All right. Keep going.

01:09:08

All right. No, we're almost done. Thankfully, it's... Immersively, it's almost done. But I... Wow.

01:09:16

What kind of a world is it like to live with this kind of stuff running through your head?

01:09:23

It would never even cross my mind. Just astonishing.

01:09:29

This is why I resisted you when you said I had to listen to it. I... Had to!

01:09:35

This is like nails on a chalkboard to me. Oh, of course it is. Me too. Do you think I enjoy this?

01:09:40

I don't enjoy this. No. No, I... Nobody. Nobody enjoys this.

01:09:46

But you have to stand up to the bullies. You have to stand up to the bullies. This man's a bully.

01:09:52

He is an internet bully of monumental proportions. And you especially have to stand up to the bullies who claim to believe what you believe.

01:10:04

And so that's all I was doing. That's all I did in a Facebook post. I said, you know what? If they go after Azaria with the same kind of lame arguments they use against everybody else,

01:10:13

I'm going to call it out. And this is what you get. The voices, the childish behavior, the outrageous errors, the twisting of history, the creation of stories that never happened.

01:10:27

This is pulpit and pen. This is J .D. Hall. This is who he is. This is what he's become. It's a shame.

01:10:34

He had potential. And he has invested it in just self -destructive behavior.

01:10:41

And it's destructive to the people around him. And I will not apologize for standing up and saying, if there are brothers and sisters in Christ who are going to be maligned by this man, we have every right.

01:10:56

Look, you know something? I remember earlier... In fact, is that going to...

01:11:02

Let me finish up, and then I'll... There's only a few lines left, so less than two minutes.

01:11:10

The man has changed. He is not who he used to be. He cares about being cool and hip and relevant, and he'll talk about...

01:11:17

I wear Coogee sweaters, and I... Don't get me started.

01:11:23

Cool, hip, and relevant. You have no earthly idea how irrelevant any of that could possibly be to me.

01:11:35

I wear bow ties. Have you seen my suits? I'm such a nerd. But he knows that being a nerd is in.

01:11:41

He understands that that's his way of peacocking. It's sad. It's a midlife crisis. And attacking

01:11:48

Diane in this way, what has she done? He has no idea the quotations, the work, the research that Diane has put into this.

01:11:56

And I'm going to make sure everybody pays me to get an idea. None. But he's going to use his platform to call it out and set the record straight.

01:12:04

Attaboy, biggin'. Nothing like understanding the word if. Yeah, got to have that word.

01:12:11

Yeah, it's an important word. Do it. James White, do it. Throw the biggest hissy fit you can. And yet again, you will be proven wrong.

01:12:19

Because James White should spend his time reading Erasmus or some junk,

01:12:25

I don't know, while riding a bike. Having imaginary arguments in his head with Steven Anderson.

01:12:30

Maybe that's how he should spend his time. If he doesn't want to actually do research into subjects before he opines.

01:12:37

The reason why we're talking about Rosaria Butterfield is because she's wiggled her way into our camp.

01:12:44

Even though she is a Tim Keller Gospel Coalition ite.

01:12:50

And KSP is her best friend. And she is teaching that hospitality is basically the same thing as LGBT affirmation.

01:13:00

And when J .D. Greer talks about pronoun hospitality taken from Preston Sprinkle, he got that concept from Rosaria Butterfield.

01:13:07

James White knows none of this. I know none of this. Except that when

01:13:15

I responded to J .D. Greer and criticized that perspective,

01:13:22

Rosaria wrote to me and thanked me for taking that stand. And that's something J .D.

01:13:27

doesn't know. But he doesn't care. He doesn't care. He doesn't care what her actual perspective is.

01:13:34

It's irrelevant. When you're a slanderer, the truth doesn't matter to you.

01:13:41

It's whatever you can use. And that's what J .D. Hall is all about.

01:13:48

On that note, with what he said about what I said, I honestly believe that he believes that's what

01:13:55

I said. I don't know. I honestly believe he makes these things up in his mind and it becomes fact.

01:14:03

Irrefutable, concrete. I can't prove it, but that's my experience with him.

01:14:10

Oh, no, yeah, I would say that he is so invested in his own infallibility that it becomes reality for him.

01:14:17

That's what's scary. That's what's frightening. If you're going to have a podcast, talk about that which you know.

01:14:25

If you're going to have a platform, talk about things that you know, not things that you're hopelessly ignorant about because you have an ax to grind, because you hate having to have been repeatedly proven wrong.

01:14:36

See that? I've just proven you wrong over and over and over again. Let me give you one example, then we're going to wrap this up.

01:14:43

On Facebook, one of Jordan Hall's after he told

01:14:51

Kofi to go home, one of his comments was this.

01:14:59

Let me try to be more humble and less braggadocious as apparently it is my arrogance that has everyone in this thread upset.

01:15:05

I have debated 3 ,535 ,345 ,345 moderated debates on 7 continents, 12 planets, 2 galaxies, and inside one black hole.

01:15:15

I've written 45 books on the topic of Muslim apologetics and have debated in 98 mosques, 47 synagogues, and at least one madrasa in Beirut.

01:15:23

I did all the above while riding between such events on my bicycle and listening to debate prep on 1 .5 speed.

01:15:28

There, that's less arrogant than mentioning Pulpit and Pen's many readers. I hope that suffices and pacifies your complaint.

01:15:35

So, what that tells me is that JD is well aware of the fact that when it comes to actual apologetics, does anyone remember the factual reality that despite the division between us,

01:15:58

I very accurately and fairly analyzed the debates that he's done?

01:16:06

Not every one of them, but the ones here locally and elsewhere. And gave him the credit where credit was due, but he's only done a few.

01:16:17

And he's self -publishing a book. Everyone's concern should be, if this man is willing to behave like this, what does it say about the quality of the argumentation of the book?

01:16:30

Because it's an important subject. And I do not doubt for a second, I do not doubt for a second that JD will have tons of facts.

01:16:39

Here's the problem, though. If you try to fit facts into a warped worldview, a worldview that is warped by your own absolute obsession to be considered the infallible source of all things, to think you are the one man standing firm against the downgrade and nobody else, even if nobody stands with me,

01:17:03

I will be the one man standing. You will warp and twist those facts, and that's what he has done.

01:17:11

And so he can have all the good research in the world, but good research with an undisciplined, rebellious, self -centered mind will create havoc and will not help any of us.

01:17:27

It will not help any of us. That's the problem. That's the problem.

01:17:33

Now, one last thing. Why? Why over and over, and I had some of the conversation over the weekend, why even bother?

01:17:44

Just ignore the man. You cannot ignore bullies.

01:17:51

You cannot ignore people who are going to use their platform to destroy others in the body.

01:18:00

That's cowardice. That's cowardice. And so that's why

01:18:06

I said what I said on Facebook, and that's why we're responding here. The man not only behaves in an infantile fashion, and this was a demonstration that we let you listen.

01:18:18

We put his stuff on our stream. We put his accusations on our stream because he does not realize how bad he looks and how infantile his behavior is.

01:18:33

He doesn't realize it. I'm not doing that, hoping that there's someone in his circle that can sit him down and say,

01:18:40

J .D., you don't... You've got to listen. He's right.

01:18:46

You put your book out and you're behaving like this, it's done. I don't think that's going to happen.

01:18:53

I don't think there's anybody close to him that I think it's done. We tried. We tried for years.

01:19:02

Elders got involved, and churches got involved. We tried for years.

01:19:12

Our audience and that audience end up intersecting. And I wish all

01:19:20

Christians would be mature enough to recognize that you have to, you simply have to allow for time.

01:19:29

That you should not believe everything just because you hear it on a webcast.

01:19:36

That you should take the time to listen and to evaluate and to do so in light of a person's entire life ministry, not just this one particular instance.

01:19:52

I wish that's how everybody thought, but it's unfortunately not. So, in conclusion, nothing's changed.

01:20:02

J .D. Hall exploded and spewed vile venom all over the internet again, but nothing's changed.

01:20:10

If they ever get around to taking the

01:20:17

Diane Gaskin stuff out from behind a paywall and put it out where it can be evaluated and done so fairly, then if it does engage in fundamentalist, associationalist category error -ridden argumentation,

01:20:35

I will call it out. I will not be bullied by J .D.

01:20:43

Hall. I'm not going to do it. Someone's got to stand up against these people.

01:20:51

And so, we will use this platform because there is a more important issue here.

01:20:59

We need to provide a meaningfully balanced, gracious, biblical, non -compromising response to our society.

01:21:10

And the J .D. Halls of the world are not equipped to give that to us. They are equipped to give us nuclear weapons and C4.

01:21:21

But when it comes to actually providing deeply thought out responses that are not dependent upon slapping, just punching somebody in the nose as your first rebuttal, that's not coming from pulpit and pen.

01:21:37

Never has, never will. Just go look at it. Well, Rich says don't do that because they get clicks.

01:21:46

And they get paid for it. But the documentation is there. And I will allow anyone.

01:21:53

I will allow anyone. Just compare. Just compare. You'll see what the difference is.

01:22:02

With that, we went long. I'm sorry if you tuned in looking for something else. We're going to fire up Radio Free Geneva at 2 .30.

01:22:12

It's a different stream. This stream is ending. We're going to do Radio Free Geneva, response to Mike Winger, 2 .30,

01:22:19

our time, which is 4 .30 Eastern time. I don't know what time it is in California. Does anyone care what time it is in California?

01:22:24

I don't know. I don't think they know what time it is in California anymore themselves. So, you

01:22:29

Californians, you can figure it out for yourself. But that's about seven minutes from now. We'll get started again. We'll see you then. God bless.