Ark and the Darkness - Movie Post Show (full-length interviews)

Welcome to the Answer Center at the Ark Encounter in Williamstown, Kentucky. I'm Pat Roy, and you made an excellent decision.

You stayed through the credits, and now you're about to receive your reward because we're going to spend some time with the men that actually helped to make the movie.

Let me introduce them very quickly. To my right here is Dr. Andrew Snelling, Geology with Answers in Genesis.

We've got Dr. Randall Price, Archeology, Liberty University. We've got Dr. Terry Mortensen, History and Theology, Answers in Genesis.

We've got Dr. Tim Chafee, who is Theology with Answers in Genesis. And then also

Dr. Dan Biddle, who is President of Genesis Apologetics and also Executive Producer for Ark in the

Darkness. And gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. So you know, I have always said that creation, the creation message, and the evidence for the flood is so powerful that it can turn wimpy

Christians into powerful Christians. And Dr. Biddle, that's actually your story, right? It is,

Pat. I think it was about 12 years ago I attended a talk by Dave Bisbee, our Vice President, and went there as a huge skeptic because the talk was titled something like,

Dinosaurs Walk with Man. And I just couldn't believe that someone in Christianity would actually think that.

So I went to this talk as a skeptic, and about halfway through his presentation, I thought, Oh my gosh, this guy is on to something.

I'm a behavioral scientist by training, and I've testified in federal court cases for about 20 years on research and statistics and evidence.

And it was about halfway through Dave's talk, I thought, My gosh, there is a lot of evidence that he's going over here.

So I had to take about a 90 -day hiatus. I bought thousands of dollars for the DVDs and books and plunged in the topic of dinosaurs, geology, and Noah's flood.

And about halfway through that process, I became not just convinced that dinosaurs walk with man, but overwhelmingly convinced.

The evidence was stacked so high, it was undeniable for me. And it began a huge life change for me, and it eventually led to the formation of our ministry.

That is amazing. And I think I can say, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that every one of us sitting here today has had our life radically changed by the evidence.

I would love to hear from the rest of you. What's happened in your life? How has this information changed your life? What's it done for you?

How's it impacted your family? Well, I started picking up rocks when I was eight years of age.

And by the time I was in high school, I was convinced I was going to be a geologist. And as a Christian, I had to delve into these issues.

And so in my teen years, I became convinced that the flood really did happen, and the geology did fit with that.

So I devoted my life to doing the study, and then I finished my

PhD and went to the mining industry. And 40 years ago, I left the mining industry to work full time in apologetics, to do research on the flood, and also to present the evidence for the flood.

So it radically changed my life direction from a lucrative opportunity in the mining industry to going full time into this area.

And of course, it affected my family because our kids had to go where we move. I've been living here in the

US for 13 years, and so it's a lot. I can get to some of the geology here, like in the

Grand Canyon, which is a magnificent place to study the flood. And so, yeah, it really changed my life, my family, and my direction.

Wow. That is amazing. And God has used you in so many ways to reach others. Well, it's all he's doing, not mine.

I often say to people, if I wasn't obedient to what God wanted me to do, he'd go and get someone else.

So it's not me, it's him. Because all of us have had a complete life change as a result of this.

Yeah, well, I think each of us could testify that it gives us great confidence in scripture, that it's true from the very beginning to the very end.

So it's helpful in that way as we grow in our faith and our trust in God's word. For me, a very practical way,

I mean, what's right behind us? I had the privilege of being the content manager for the last almost 11 years now.

I never dreamed I would be the guy who writes the signs that people read when they go through the Ark. So how has it impacted me and my family?

Well, that's one way. That's been my job for 11 years and been a great blessing. Dr. Price, what about you?

What has the Lord done to change your life with this message? Well, as an archaeologist, I realized that if I had the conviction that the

Ark was an actual historical structure, that it could probably be failed. And I went over to Turkey, was involved in a seminar there with other

Turkish archaeologists who usually deal with the subject of the Ark in terms of tradition or folklore, and I presented the archaeological protocol for being able to actually locate, document, and then publish something like this.

It led me for six more years to be involved with looking at possible locations, involved my son and son -in -law, so it became a family affair, and just very much trying to live out the convictions of what

I believe. So would you say that following the Lord is actually living the adventure?

Very much so. I mean, if you are going to follow the Lord, he's going to put you in trying circumstances where you are called to live out your faith before a watching world.

And he demonstrates his faithfulness through that. It's a life of purpose and meaning, isn't it? Wow. Excellent.

Anybody else? Well, I came to Christ as a first -year university student, and one of the first questions

I had was, what about evolution? What about the millions of years? And I was introduced to some books that helped me to see that this is a massive lie.

And so I started reading everything I could, and I was a missionary in Eastern Europe for 10 years, the last 10 years of communism.

And so, of course, in Eastern Europe, they taught evolution in millions of years as fact.

And so I kept studying, and then went to seminary, and none of my professors believed

Genesis about the age of the earth. And I learned early on that the flood was really critical to the question of the age of the earth.

And so then the Lord led me to do a PhD in England, studying the history of this controversy.

And that affected my family, because we had five kids at that time, so I hauled them all over to England and did my research.

And so, as I studied where this idea came from, and I realized it was the rejection of the flood and the rejection of the biblical chronology that was the foundation for then

Darwin's revolution. And so, this has deepened my convictions about the truth of God's Word, and given me a passion to share with other

Christians, because most of them haven't thought about this issue, particularly of the flood.

These are great points. When I went to seminary years ago, Pat, in the same breath, the professor said, well, if you want to believe in the

Hebrew, earth has to be young, then the six days are real days. The Genesis genealogies lead back to a young earth that was created recently, because you've got

Adam as the first man taking stewardship over the earth with Eve. And so, but then he said, but if you believe in science, earth has to be millions of years old so you guys go figure it out.

And I didn't really know it at the time, but that sent me through a long journey of what's called cognitive dissonance.

How could this exist and that exist at the same time? So I was really undeclared on my journey on origins until I ran, you know, face falling into dinosaurs and the geology of the flood.

It was just incredible. So when I discovered that Genesis is a true history book, for me, it was like being born again, again, my head was like chiropractically aligned with my heart because I understood that the world had its narrative and the

Bible's got its narrative and the Bible was actually more true and valid than what the world had been telling me.

So it was like a huge shift and now my head was given permission to believe what my heart knew was true.

So it was a huge shift in my own faith walk. So it is true that the creation message and the evidence for the flood is so powerful that it does change life.

You guys are testimonies to that, and I'm sure there's lots of testimonies out there as well. And it's just the power of God to be able to change people's lives.

Okay. It is the rapid fire round. Okay. And so here's what we're going to do is

I thought we would just move down the line here and I would love for each of you to give me what you think is the best evidence for the worldwide flood.

Here's the thing is we know that the scriptures clearly talk about it. So we're going to say something outside of the scriptures, but I would love for you to share with me the thing that you think is the most powerful piece of evidence for the worldwide flood.

Well, Pat, the question to answer is if the flood really occurred as the Bible describes it, what evidence would we look for?

What would it leave behind? And so for me, the powerful evidence is we'd expect to find rock layers that were rapidly deposited by water right across the continents, all around the globe, and they'd have marine creatures buried in them because the flood waters would have gone all around the earth to a global flood covering all the high mountains.

And that's exactly what we find, billions of dead things called fossils laid down in rock layers that were deposited rapidly by water all around the globe.

And some of these layers can be traced from continent to continent to continent. You can only explain that by a global catastrophic flood.

And the marine fossils are on the continents. You don't find them on the ocean floor. You find them on the continents.

They lived in the oceans, but they died up there on the continents and in layers that go right across the continent.

You know, isn't it interesting? So many times I've talked to a skeptic who has said, hey, if there was really a worldwide flood, wouldn't it leave behind the evidence?

Where's the evidence? And I always think, yeah, just about every square inch of planet earth, pretty much.

But the problem is that most people haven't stopped to think about it. They just think that the

Bible's a description's mythological. And when you press them and make them read it and see that it says all the high mountains under the whole of the heaven were covered, the emphasis on whole and every, then what are the implications of that?

And as a geologist, the answer is very simple. As I explained, billions of dead things called fossils buried in rock layers that were rapidly deposited by water right across the earth, all around the globe.

And you know, sometimes you get mixtures of land and marine creatures together, which is what you'd expect.

The creatures up on the land, the floodwaters came up with the marine creatures and buried them together.

Dr. Price. Well, I would say if the arc really happened, the flood really happened, then there should be some evidence for this in history.

As an archaeologist, we unearth the different civilizations of the ancient Near East. There should be accounts, multiplicity of accounts, actually, if this was of that kind historically then.

That's exactly what we find, whether it's Sumeria or Assyria or Babylon or other areas from the

Mesopotamian region where you had originally this account end up, that is, with the arc.

And then, you know, throughout the globe, as you look at different accounts, you find that they pretty much say the same thing, both about creation and about flood.

And some of the similarities are quite unique. The differences, however, tell us that the

Bible is especially unique because it had more of the historical event and not with some of the creations that came over time from the local mythologies.

It's all there if you want to find. Right, exactly. Great answer. Okay, Dr.

Mortensen. Well, I agree with Andrew about the geological evidence, but for me, seeing where the millions of years idea came from historically and that it didn't come from the rocks and the fossils.

It came from anti -biblical assumptions, ideas in people's heads that caused them to interpret the rocks and the fossils in a millions of years scenario.

But it was their assumptions that led them to those interpretations. And I realized that nobody goes out and looks at the rocks with a blank mind.

Everybody has a worldview, and those worldview ideas were powerful. And the world was deceived into thinking that, well, the facts just speak for themselves, but the facts don't speak for themselves.

And so, seeing that historically, where that idea came from, and then seeing how quickly the church bowed the knee to the scientific majority and thought, well, that's fact, so we're going to have to reinterpret the

Bible. That really opened my eyes to just how critical this issue is.

Right. It sounds like it comes down to, are you going to listen to man or are you going to listen to God? It's exactly.

It's man's word against God's word. It's the words of people who weren't there during that history that they talk about, who don't know everything, and who are sinful.

We have to remember that people who wear white lab coats or geologist caps, they're sinners just like the rest of us.

And that sin, Paul says, darkens the mind, and it causes us to think wrong things, come to wrong conclusions.

Okay, Dr. Chafee, we've already heard three best answers. I don't know if yours got taken or not, but...

Yeah, Dr. Price, you stole my answer. Like Dr. Snelling said, the rocks that we find out there, the layers, fossil -bearing layers are just testimony to the flood.

I've had the opportunity to hike through the Grand Canyon and see these massive layers, hundreds of feet thick, all bearing fossils.

And as he said, they're cross -continents. I think that's the very clear -cut proof of the flood.

I've seen how these things can form rapidly. I've hiked through the Little Grand Canyon up near Mount St. Helens, and I've got a picture of me standing in this canyon.

And what's really remarkable is I'm the oldest thing in the picture, because the walls of that canyon were formed since 1980, and I'm older than that.

And to pick up on what Dr. Price said with those flood legends, hundreds of those around the globe, and a lot of times people do point out the similarities, and he mentioned real quickly the differences.

To me, what's important about the difference is it shows that it wasn't just spread by missionaries a decade or two before the anthropologists recorded the legends.

Instead, it was something that had been passed down generation after generation. And so these people knew about this ancient worldwide flood throughout their history.

And so the differences really are remarkable to me. So you know, Mount St. Helens, I used to lead tours there.

And when I would give tours, I'd point out the same thing, is that all the layers and everything that were there were more recent, which made me older than dirt.

So anyway. So Dr. Biddle, what's the number one evidence? I think if I had to reduce it down to just one, the key, the best, most compelling evidence for the flood,

I'm going to go with dinosaur soft tissue. That was very, very convincing to me, because I was conditioned through my secular education that all dinosaur fossils are just petrified rocks.

They're just bones that have been hardened and totally permineralized and replaced by rocks and minerals. But when you start doing the research on that, like I've done,

I mean, even the leading founder of the Royal Tyrrell Museum says that most dinosaur fossils now found are organic.

They're bone. They're still bone, the original material. So I plunged deeply into that field for a time.

And I've learned that now that it's not just one different type of soft tissue that they found, there are up to 16 different varieties or flavors of different types of bio -organic materials that simply cannot be millions of years old.

And I think that's not just drawing from creationist literature. There is 122 peer -reviewed scientific secular journals out there that have now established these 16 different types of dinosaur soft tissue that are found almost through all, all the way through the layers of the geological column.

So how in the world could those things be millions of years old, especially when you look at the narrative, if you follow the literature on dinosaur soft tissue and look at what paleontologists have looked and thought for decades, no one was expecting to find dinosaur soft tissue.

But when they crack these bones open and find things like hemoglobin and red blood cells and blood vessels and collagen and infects and histones and proteins and all these things, it simply declares, it's almost like the rocks will cry out.

They declare that earth is young and these dinosaurs died catastrophically for the judgment of our sin.

Yeah, that is powerful evidence. And I've noticed a lot of times when you present that to somebody who believes in the millions of years, they don't really have a great answer for that.

OK, I've also heard you talk about the three part matrix burial of dinosaurs. What is that and why is that convincing evidence for the flood?

That was also very, very telling for me. It was a huge clue because there's all kinds of sections in the middle of America.

Well, you study dinosaur taphonomy, the conditions in which these creatures are buried. Many of them are found in a matrix of three different products, mud, sand and ash.

So I had to come headlong with this decision, the finding out what am I going to think about these creatures or here's a dinosaur buried under 10 feet of those three products, mud, sand and ash.

So I had to think what past earth process could have produced those three different products to encapsulate this bone, mud, sand and ash.

And it's a theory of catastrophic plate tectonics that completely wholesale convinced me that that was the only way we can explain why these creatures are buried in those three things.

You've got mud and sand being brought up from the oceans, simultaneously mixed with ash from the rapidly subducting new seafloor that's going underneath the land continent.

So volcanic ash, exactly. So you had to have those three things. But you need some process that was happening concurrently.

That's the thing. And these creatures are buried in the products that killed them. They were killed by those three things, sandwiched and baked in together.

So I found that very compelling. You know, another interesting topic is the Morrison Formation.

How does that play into the flood? What is the Morrison Formation and how does that play into it?

Well, where the dinosaurs are buried in the Morrison Formation is very famous. It's full of volcanic ash, as Dan has said,

Dr. Biddle has said. And the Morrison Formation can be traced from down in Texas, down to the

Mexican border, all the way to Canada and spread right throughout the Western US. Again, a pancake layer, relatively thin, but scattered right across the

US. And we don't see anything like that happening today. This is one of the things, modern geology is based on the idea that the present is the key to the past.

Look at present day processes. So you look at a rock layer and you have to ask, where today do we see a rock layer like this forming?

And the answer is nowhere. And so it required explosive volcanic eruptions. You know, think

Mouths of the Hellens a million times greater. That sort of catastrophic eruption, spreading dust all over the place and ash.

And the dinosaurs get nailed. And we have to remember, the key component is that you don't find dead cows out in the paddock now being fossilized.

To preserve them, you have to bury them rapidly, catastrophically. Everybody knows that. And to encapsulate and preserve the biotissues, the biomolecules, you have to encapsulate it and that's right through all the geological record.

And that's very, very convincing. And so the Morrison Formation epitomizes this and it's world famous for all its dinosaur fossils.

And they're huge. So you just don't sand grain by sand grain by sand grain. You have to entomb the whole animal all at once and on a vast scale throughout the west of the

United States and elsewhere. I mean, Pat, we're talking about a region that touches 13 states, over 600 ,000 miles.

It's hard to imagine a pancake of sediment that's that broad, but it's also up to 300 feet deep, 300 feet thick.

So one on Earth could lay a 300 foot thick pancake of sediment buried with 50 species of dinosaurs, mammals and fish and clams all across a 13 state region over 600 ,000 square miles.

So it had to be a global catastrophic flood. Exactly. And, you know, Dr. Snell, it's something that you said that really,

I guess I really came to realize a few years back, is that we all talk about fossilization like it just happens all of the time.

That's kind of the feeling you get. But in reality, fossilization is a very rare kind of ad -heth -luke accident.

Well, it's not so much an accident in that sense, although, you know, in the case of the flood, you know, the flood started and immediately, you know, things started blowing up and being swept away.

And so creatures were encapsulated very rapidly. But most geologists, on the one hand, know that you have to preserve the creature rapidly, otherwise you don't see it today fossilized.

But they don't connect the dots because, as Terry says, they've already got a bias which says it's got to be over millions of years.

And so they ignore the fact that, you know, these fossil graveyards, that's what we call them, massive graveyards that spread right around the globe with all these fossils in big and small.

And it all had to happen very rapidly. Otherwise, we wouldn't see the fossils in those layers today. So as you men have done your research and done your work, not everybody goes along with what you're talking about, right?

Matter of fact, even the Bible predicted that that would happen. Matter of fact, I thought it'd be kind of cool just to look at the scripture in 2

Peter chapter three, verse three through seven, knowing this first that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts and saying, where is the promise of his coming?

For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation. For this, they willingly forget that by the word of God, the heavens were of old and the earth standing out of water and in the water by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.

But the heavens and the earth, which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Boy, this is amazing because this is a prophecy saying that there's going to be scoffers who don't believe this.

Gentlemen, you're out there talking about this all the time. Is it true? Are there scoffers? Absolutely. And the fact is that that prophecy has already been fulfilled.

That's what Terry was studying when he was doing his PhD on the history of geology. And we're told that these scoffers will be willingly ignorant.

In other words, they will deliberately reject, they'll ignore the evidence that creation occurred, the flood occurred, and they'll argue, therefore, that you

Christians talking about Jesus coming again, they'll laugh at it because God didn't create the world and God didn't judge the world during the flood.

The key phrase there is they will assume that all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

In other words, we alluded to that earlier. They will believe that the present is the key to the past, that what we observe today has the way it's always been.

And so today's processes are slow and gradual with the occasional earthquake and volcanic eruption. And so they say that's the way it's always been.

And that's an assumption because, as Terry said, they weren't back there. And I think the key thing,

I want to move to another passage of Scripture. You remember in John chapter two, when

Jesus turned water into wine, he sent the servants with the wine to the master of the feast and the master of the feast looked at that wine.

And on the assumption that grapes always produce wine over a long period of time, he was using his human reasoning alone to say that that took a long time and this was the best wine.

He didn't ask the servants who saw the miracle. They were the eyewitnesses. And so what these scoffers are doing are using their own human reasoning.

They're ignoring God's word, the eyewitness testimony that we have said the evidence is there for it.

And they use that to deliberately reject. And so they've infected the world with this philosophy that the present is the key to the past.

All things continue as they were. And it's being fulfilled because these scoffers arose at the end of the 1700s and into the early 1800s and they were a precursor to Charles Darwin, because without the millions of years of geological evolution, there's no time for millions of years of biological evolution.

And so that changed the world. In fact, it was the geologists who first of all rejected

God's word and brought in this idea. And the tragedy is,

Pat, and it's important to point out, you know, as Dan alluded to earlier, people say, but can the majority of scientists been wrong?

Absolutely. What did Jesus say in his sermon on the mount?

He said, narrow is the way and the gate that leads to life, broad is the way that leads to destruction and few there be that find it.

The majority will choose to reject God's word. And so we shouldn't be surprised.

Yes, it's costly to take the narrow way, but that leads to life. We say

God's word is true because he was there and he saw what happened. He told us what happened.

And as Randall and Tim said earlier, that's why the written account is the derivation of all these spoken accounts in the myths and legends, because, you know, the

Chinese whisper idea, details get befuddled. But the written account is the original account given to us by God.

And so the ultimate question we have to ask ourselves, are we going to trust what God's word says?

The one who knows everything, who never makes mistakes, never told lies and saw what happened and told us what happened, or are we going to believe the fallible, finite scientists who weren't there?

And so we have to humble ourselves, give up our human reasoning, because we can't understand how

Jesus turned water into wine. We can't understand how God spoke and the world was created. And so it's by faith that we understand these things.

But it's not a blind faith, because God has told us what happened and he's provided the evidence.

We've talked about the evidence for the flood. There's no reason to accept what the scoffers are saying when we find billions of dead things buried in rock layers, laid down by water all over the earth.

Exactly what we'd expect to find based on God's eyewitness testimony. So, yes, we can test

God's word, but we have to trust it in the first place. And we affirm what

God's word says based on what we see in the world around us. And God expects us to do that.

He doesn't expect us to give up our minds. He wants us to worship him with our heart, our soul and our minds.

And so he expects us to discover the evidence. And that's part of our dominion mandate, to use the evidence to convince people that God's word is correct.

And these scoffers are wrong. And we need to trust God's word from the very beginning, because that's the real account of the earth's history.

Right. So tonight you sat in the theater and you've heard all of the evidence presented on the movie.

And I would say you're kind of faced with the challenge right now, right? Are you going to be a scoffer? Are you going to be somebody that just trusts

God's word? And when you do, all of the evidence fits into it. You were about to say something you would agree with that, right?

Is that one thing? The scoffers, if you look at their attitude, it's just one of dismissal.

In the academy today, there's mainstream understanding of certain positions.

And you don't go outside those and want to keep your job or you want to keep your whatever, you know, your prestige.

What happens is that these scoffers have totally dismissed the word of God as a source of authority.

And so they're leaning on themselves. Also, they have to because their moral inclination is such that if they came to the word of God, it would condemn them as the judges.

So they have to dismiss this. Right. And that's why in Peter's context, he says they just dismiss everything from creation on as though it never happened because it's not observable as happening today.

One of the important things in the passage, it talks about in these last days. So it gives us a time frame from the time when

Christ came to the time. Christ is returning. And in that time period, scoffing or rejection or ridicule of those who hold these biblical positions is expected.

And what's interesting is the very fact that we see that happening and increasingly happening.

It's simply fulfillment of that prediction. In other words, what they are saying, they're convincing us by doing that, that we're coming even closer to that type of fulfillment.

Right. Can I add one more thing? Of course. Because it's not just the the geologists who are misleading us, but as I've had the privilege of speaking in 35 countries to Christian audiences and I've discovered from my time in seminary, most

Christian theologians and Bible scholars have bowed the knee to the scientific majority and they're teaching the church.

Well, we don't know exactly what Genesis 1 to 11 means, and it's really not important. As long as you believe that God created and you believe in Jesus, it doesn't matter when

God created, how God created, how long it took to create. And so not only do

Christians have to decide whether they're going to believe God or the scientific majority, and I like to point out that science doesn't say anything.

It's scientists. And it's not all scientists who say the earth is millions of years old.

It's just the majority. So we're deciding whether we're going to believe the scientific majority or God, but also it's increasingly difficult for the

Christian because you have to decide whether you're going to believe God's Word or the theological majority.

And I'm not talking about the theological liberals. I'm talking about professing evangelicals who say they believe the

Bible is God's Word, who say they believe Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead for their salvation.

And yet when they get to Genesis 1 to 11, it's like all of their understanding of how to interpret the

Bible goes out the window and it just becomes mushy, confusing, and they're leading lots and lots of seminary students astray.

And I often say, Pat, the rocks don't have labels on them saying, hi, I'm millions of years old. They're just rocks.

We impose an interpretation of millions of years on the rocks, just like the master of feast imposed on that wine that Jesus had created minutes before along with history, which hadn't happened.

And yet he could have talked to the eyewitnesses who saw that Jesus turned it instantly into wine, just like God's Word declares that Jesus, yes, the

Creator, did things instantly at the beginning in Genesis chapter one. You know, that passage reminds me of something we wrote about in the

Ark in our flood geology exhibit. Many of these same scientists would say there's no evidence for a worldwide flood on Earth, a planet that is 70 percent covered with water on the surface.

Many of them will accept what they call a flood of biblical proportions. You know what they mean is like a third or half the planet of Mars was at one time covered with water.

Why? Because they see evidence of gullies or other things that look like they were carved by water. Right. And so that's a reasonable conclusion.

But as far as we know, there's no liquid water on the surface of Mars. So they're willing to accept that there was a huge catastrophic flood on Mars.

And yet when you look at the Earth with all of those same features in abundance and much larger scale, there never was a worldwide flood.

So, Dr. Snelling, let me ask you this. If the Bible never said worldwide flood, what would every single geology textbook in the world say caused the features we see in the world today?

So if they were just looking at it, the Bible never taught worldwide flood. Well, so what do you think every single geology textbook in the world would say?

They would say that the layers form rapidly because the fossils had to be buried rapidly. So there must have been a worldwide flood.

Exactly. But the Bible says there was one. So because they're willing, because they will not accept the truth of God.

It's not that the evidence isn't there. They make a willing choice to ignore the evidence. It is truly a prophecy that's manifesting in our day, age and culture, because Peter said, look, his voice echoes through 2000 years.

It says, just remember this above everything I've said. He says scoffers will come in the last days.

Denying what? Denying two things. Creation ex nihilo, creation out of nothing by water and destruction of the

Earth by water. So what what secular college can you graduate from nowadays? Where you're not indoctrinating that those two things didn't happen.

You're going to get five or six classes that are mandatory part of the core requirement. They're going to train that out of you.

They're going to be very much attack that creation ex nihilo creation of nothing didn't happen.

And the worldwide flood didn't happen. So it's an amazing fulfillment of prophecy that's happening right here in our age because he says above everything else.

Just remember this one thing in the last days, these scoffers are going to come. You're going to deny those two things, the flood and three.

There's another key issue here, too, because Jesus spoke on the sermon on the

Olivet Discourse about his second coming. And he says, as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the coming of the day of the

Son of Man. And Peter was there. And so he echoes that in 2 Peter chapter three. But here's here's the thing.

They deny the creation. They deny the flood and they deny the second coming.

Well, as Christians, and this is the message for Christians and theologians, was the creation global?

Absolutely. Would Jesus' second coming be global? Absolutely. And Jesus and Peter are comparing the flood to both those events.

So the flood had to be global. And so, yeah, the testimony of Jesus echoed by Peter in that prophecy is very clear that it was all those things are global catastrophic events.

So, Dr. Snelly, let me let me just read that passage really quickly. Matthew 24, verse 37 through 39.

But as the days of Noah were, so also will be the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days of Noah before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage until the day that Noah entered the ark and did not know till the flood came and took them all away.

So also will be the coming of the Son of Man be. So, gentlemen, when we talk about this, it says that our world is going to be a lot like how it was back in the time of Noah.

Question, are we getting there? Yeah. People just live as if the Bible wasn't relevant, that judgment wasn't coming.

Let's eat, drink and be merry. And tomorrow we die. And that's the end of everything. You know, you're born and then you die and you no longer cease to exist.

And so they're willingly ignorant of what this warning. You see people. History begins with me.

And so it's kind of self -inventing types of things. The past has nothing to teach us.

You see people on their cell phones. They get into social media. Everything's immediate. And we find people because they don't go to the word of God.

They don't understand what it says about social issues, sin and marriage and other things like this, that they start deconstructing their faith because they say, well, the

Bible has no answers. It's a contradiction to society. And we accept these norms.

So. But they don't know. They don't. They don't pay attention. And so the idea there is, you know, this willingly rejection or this will of the dismissal of the knowledge that's there.

It's all there. But they refuse to look at it. And that, of course, ultimately will, as that passage says, lead them into that type of ignorance of the times until it's too late.

Because it says until the day the flood came or until Noah entered to the ark, they were they were had no idea this would happen.

And Noah was preaching, by the way, was a preacher of rightness. So he was warning people and they ignored the warning and just went on marrying and giving in marriage and eating and drink and be merry.

Totally, totally ignored the warnings. You know, whether one of the thing that I like to point out is, you know, most

Christians today, and I assume that many or most people watching this film would at least profess to be a

Christian, is that most Christians will say, well, man was made in the image of God and we all descended from Adam and Eve.

And there are only two genders, male and female. And God made marriage, a man and a woman.

And there's only one race, Adam's race. Those things are all clearly taught in the

Bible. But the Bible also clearly teaches that God created in six literal days.

He destroyed the world with a global catastrophic flood. And the whole universe is only a little more than 6 ,000 years old.

So the Bible clearly teaches all those things. So it is it is inconsistent to believe the first five things

I talked about, the moral issues, but to reject the history, because those statements about the creation, the flood and the age of the earth are foundational to those other points.

Because where do we learn that man is made in the image of God? Where do we learn that Adam and Eve were the parents of the whole?

It's in the history. Where do we learn that abortion is murder? Well, it doesn't talk about abortion specifically in Genesis 1 to 11, but it does say we're made in the image of God.

And after the flood in chapter nine, God says anyone who takes a human life will be subject to capital punishment.

So it's all there. Those moral issues are grounded in the history of Genesis.

So when Christians and Christian theologians start messing with those early chapters of Genesis, they say, well, it doesn't actually literally mean this.

It opens the door to rejecting the Bible's teaching about marriage, morality, sexuality, gender, the sanctity of life.

And so what is disturbing to me is to see so many Christian leaders who will be saying we need to fight the moral issues, but to say, oh, well, the age of the earth, creation, that doesn't matter.

It's foundational. And the foundations of the scriptures have been under massive assault for 200 years, starting with the rejection of the flood and the biblical chronology.

And it's just been intensifying over the last few decades. Right, exactly. Matter of fact, as you say that, not only is all of those moral issues rooted in the historical accuracy of the

Bible, but when we talk about things like the flood and the judgment, that's actually setting the foundation for the gospel message, right?

Can you explain that? How do those work together? How does a literal worldwide flood, how does that set the stage for the gospel?

Well, the Bible tells us that God judges sin, and the flood is a great reminder of that, that the skeptics will say things like, oh, this is a genocide.

It's not a genocide. It's a judgment on all of mankind. And yet God demonstrated his mercy and his grace to Noah and his family and to the representatives of the animals on the ark.

And he provided a means of physical safety from the flood in the ark. And it doesn't mean that Noah and his family were all saved eternally because they walked through that door, but it's a wonderful picture of who

Jesus is and what he did, because just as Noah and his family were saved from the physical consequence of the flood, drowning, we are all, this world is going to be judged again.

And this time by fire. The Bible talks about, Peter talks about that, and God has provided the means of eternal salvation through his son,

Jesus Christ, who came to earth as one of us, lived a sinless life. And then he went to the cross and died in our place, paying the penalty for our sins.

And then three days later, God raised him from the dead, showing his power over sin and death, power over that curse, and offers eternal life to all who believe in him.

And so in a sense, Jesus is our ark of salvation that we receive through faith. That's not by walking physically and doing certain deeds, it's only by faith alone in Christ alone.

And people say, well, isn't God unjust? No, the Bible clearly declares that God created us.

And like you create a painting, if there's some imperfection, you're entitled to destroy that painting and start again.

And so because God made us, created us, and set the standard and we fell short, he is justified in judging.

But in his mercy, he provided a way where we can escape that judgment through Jesus Christ.

And what I like to point out to people, when you stop to think about it, we quote

John 3, 16, for God so loved the world, you think about it. The Bible also declares in John 1 and Colossians 1 and Hebrews 1 that Jesus is the word, that he was there, nothing was created without him.

Genesis chapter 1, God spoke the word, Jesus, that God so loved you and I, that the creator of the universe came to die for each one of us.

That's how valuable we are in God's sight. He came to die for each one of us. And because he is the infinite creator, he could die for everyone, all our sins.

And as a creator, he had power over life so he could rise from the dead. And that's a wonderful, liberating message.

God is justified because we fell short. But in his grace and his love and his mercy, he has provided a way, just like as Tim said, the ark was provided.

I mean, there was plenty of room on the ark for thousands more people, but they rejected the message.

So there was only one door that they could enter the ark. They were warned and they didn't. And there's only one door.

Jesus said, I am the door. There's only one way to enter into the narrow way that leads to life that Jesus guarantees because he rose from the dead.

The creator of the universe died for each one of us. And that to me is just so overwhelming and humbling that God values me because he made me.

He values what he made. It's nothing that I did. It's all all he's doing. And I get the privilege of responding to that and being called a child of God because I've been obedient to his calling, obedient to his grace and his love and his mercy that he prompted me by his spirit to respond in that way.

And, you know, that's what the gospel is all about. God's work in redeeming a fallen mankind, buying them back, providing a way of escape, justly provided the way of escape for Noah and the animals on the ark.

Dr. Snelling, I love that you're so passionate. You have come alive as we're talking about this.

You know, what's exciting is that I know that all of you, even though you love rocks, you love archaeology, love history, your true passion is the reason you guys are into this, right, is because it's a chance to share the gospel, right?

Exactly. I mean, we could convince people that was a global flood, but if we didn't introduce them to the creator and the judge that brought that flood, they're going to go to hell like everyone else.

The ultimate purpose of showing people the evidence is so they respond to the warnings and heed the gospel message and come to faith in Jesus Christ so they enter through the door and we can enjoy eternity together that God has provided for us.

And so that's the ultimate purpose, presenting people with the gospel message. OK, it looks like Dr. Mortensen, you had something to add.

I had one thing that sometimes we get a little bit of a narrow view of the gospel. It's not just about saving me spiritually.

It's also the big picture account of the

Bible is creation, fall, redemption, restoration. And so Jesus is coming again to not only give

Christians resurrection bodies, but he's going to liberate the creation from the curse that God put on the creation in Genesis three.

And so the whole Bible is giving us this message of creation, fall, redemption and restoration.

And the problem with Christians and theologians who accept the millions of years, whether they realize it or not, what they're really believing is that we had millions of years of death and disease and suffering and extinction of animals.

And God made the world that way. He destroyed things or he allowed things to be destroyed.

And then he made new things. And eventually he got around to making man. And if that's really true, if those millions of years are really true, if the flood never really happened, then when

Jesus comes again, he's not coming to fix a world that was ruined by his righteous judgment of sinful people.

He's coming to fix a world that he did a lousy job of creating. And so the early chapters of Genesis are critical and the gospel is related to that history in Genesis 1 to 11.

Right. Yeah, I tell people that if Adam's sin did not bring physical death into this world, then how come the solution to sin is the physical death of the

Son of God on the cross and the physical bodily resurrection from the grave? Well, I think people look around and they say like they did in Peter, where is this promise of his coming?

We we see things pretty much remaining the same. There's no real intrusion of God into the equation that I don't see

God working in my life, people say. But that's with purpose. In other words, when we look at what

Peter said, first Peter three and second Peter three, he says

God was waiting in patience at the time of the flood so that in that time period which

Noah preached and the ark was being constructed, there was an opportunity for people to come. And now the same thing is being said.

Peter goes on. He says, you know, God is patient. And he says it's like one year is a thousand days or a thousand years is one day.

The analogy is such that from God's perspective, it's though Christ came yesterday and is coming tomorrow because the 2000 years we've had and but he's being patient with us.

He's not demonstrating himself in history or acting that way with judgment because he's restraining that.

And so people can come. So it's that that universal opportunity for people to trust in Jesus Christ is the only sufficient savior.

There is an ark of salvation. That is him. And they come into him. They find that escape from that judgment.

They also find the great blessings of eternal life with him. Pat, there's also a credibility issue in Matthew 24 because Jesus said that the flood came and took them all away.

He's talking about a worldwide historical flood. Jesus threw back to and referenced the

Old Testament over 40 times that every single time was in a historical narrative context.

He never referred back to it as an allegory or as a myth. He talked about Cain and Abel and Adam and Eve and Solomon and Gomorrah and he talked about Noah and the flood and every single one of those times it was in a historical context.

So if the flood didn't happen like the two hours of evidence that we just watched or was an allegory or myth. Now we have the credibility of Moses at stake,

David at stake in his writings, Peter and his writings, Paul and now Jesus. So five major biblical authors now all their credibility is at stake.

If the flood was a little local flood or was an allegory or a myth, they all referred back to the flood as a worldwide cataclysm.

And if Jesus is the truth, then if he's not the truth, he told a lie. He can't be the way or the life.

And if the flood didn't happen in the past, there's no reason to fear judgment coming in the future. So that's why people continue the way they are.

And that's why it's important that we show people that evidence as part of their warning so that they can't say to God on Judgment Day, I never knew.

Well, God says, no, it was in my word and I gave you the evidence. That's what Paul says in Romans chapter one, that the evidence for God's existence in the things that he's made.

We all know that smartphones and computers don't build themselves. They needed intelligent input and design.

And that's the same with the human body and all of the creation around us. People know that. I mean, we often say, why is

Richard Dawkins, the atheist, fighting against someone he doesn't believe exists? He knows that God exists.

And so he is willingly ignorant and chooses to reject God's suppression of the truth.

That's what Paul says. Exactly. He wants to he wants to do things according to his own.

We all we all have that instinctive sin nature, which God has to deal with. And going back to what

Dr. Biddle said, it's not it wasn't just Jesus declaring that these things were historical. Jesus actually became a descendant of Adam and of Noah.

And so if we're going to say those things are mythological, was he a descendant of a myth or was he a descendant of real people?

Why does Paul in First Corinthians 15 call him the last Adam? There was not a real first Adam.

And how could he be our kinsman, redeemer, one of us, unless he was specifically descended from a real person?

As I say, the scriptures are really his story, beginning with Jesus as the creator.

Then Jesus comes to die and then he's coming back as the judge at the end of all time in the second coming.

And so that ties the whole of the scriptures together, that literal historical flow. Everything is rooted in history that we can we can establish and that we can verify from the evidence around us.

Excellent answers, guys. You've done a great job. You know what? We need to land this plane. But before we do,

I want to address two types of people that are sitting in the audience right now. And you guys all in your personal ministries,

I know you've met the same person. They're the ones that have got all of the books and all the videos on their shelves.

They know all of the creation evidences, but for some reason they've never just had the opportunity to use that information to allow the

Lord to change somebody's life. They've come to the theater tonight. They're fully behind us.

They probably could even teach a lot of the same things we did, but they've never just fully given themselves over to allowing the

Lord to use them, to use that information. Listen, we don't want to be people that just archive all this information and collect it and have a bunch of facts we can trade.

So for that person that's sitting in the audience right now, how do they allow the

Lord to use them, to use this information to see the Lord change lives? Well, I think the key thing,

Pat, is that we, with all our arguments, will never convince anyone. It's only a work of God's Holy Spirit to change hearts and minds.

But that's liberating because it means we only have to open our mouths and testify to what we know and what we believe and then leave it to God to deal with that person.

We know we can't convince them, but we have a responsibility to present the evidence to them.

God has chosen us to be unfit vessels, yes. We depend on him to speak through us, but we have the responsibility.

We're the ones, not angels, that he's given charge to declare this message. And so we do that.

We don't have to think, well, I'm going to convince this person. No, just tell them what we know.

Let the Holy Spirit take over. And so that's liberating because then you don't have to get all nervous. You just talk about what you know and what you can testify to what

God has done in your own heart and life as well. If it wasn't for God's grace, we'd be in exactly the same position as the people that we're listening to.

And you can't sort of bash someone over the head and say you're foolish to believe in evolution and then say trust in Jesus because you've already called them a fool.

So why would they listen to anything you say? So it's got to be done with humility and grace and winsomeness and just testify to what you know and allow the

Holy Spirit to do the rest. What tips would you have for somebody that's sitting in the chair right now?

They know this information. They're passionate about it. For years, they've collected the information. How do they start?

How do they start to use this information? How do they allow God to use them? Well, you know,

Jesus, when he was approached by skeptics, he often asked a question of them.

He asked, you know, like, should I pay my taxes to Caesar? So Jesus said, show me a penny whose inscriptions on it are

Caesar. Well, give to Caesar what is Caesar and to God what is God. So if a skeptic comes and says, ah, the

Bible's wrong, there never was a flood. You say to them, wait a minute. If the flood really occurred, whatever this was, you expect to find.

And while they're umming and ahhing because they've never thought about that, you get out the Genesis chapters 6 through 7, 8 and you read it to them and you say see all the high hills under the whole of heaven.

Wouldn't you expect to find billions of dead things buried in rock lies laid down by all over the earth? That's exactly what we find. And so often you can, you've got to find out where a person is at.

No use talking about things that don't, that they're not. So you ask them questions to find out where they, where they itch.

And then, then you scratch where they itch. And so you direct your comments, your evidence, according to the questions that they're raising or that they can't answer, that you pose to them because that puts them on the back foot.

They've got to answer to you. And they show that they don't know the answers. Well, then you're there ready to provide the answers.

And that leads into presenting the gospel message. Well, you know, I love this because I think a lot of times people feel like they have to reach a certain level of having all of the information, right?

But we're just fallible humans. None of us have all of the information. And I, I love what you're saying,

Dr. Snelling, is sometimes it's just as simple as asking questions. You can find out where they're at.

And that's what missionaries do. They find out about the culture and the questions that people have. And then they talk about that when they present the scriptures and the gospel.

Well, since giving this message begins with us, I think in 2 Peter 3, it talks about that the whole world will be destroyed.

And it says, in light of this, what sort of people ought we to be here? In other words, and in other words, if, if things were really going to change this dramatically, if there really was a worldwide flood, it's going to be another worldwide judgment.

And that is going to happen. What kind of urgency is there in our life? What are we living simply for the moment?

Are we indulging ourselves with all of the, the entertainments and the pleasures?

Are we really serious about this message that there are people who will perish if they do not know?

And so as we look at, at this final judgment, it's coming that we, by God's grace, will escape.

What sort of people ought we to be? We ought to be those who come with a great passion, a great conviction, and speak to those who have not heard.

So we need to be bold. Anybody else have any insights from that? I want to say to those of you who really understand the creation evolution controversy, and are really convinced of the truth of Genesis, to influence

Christians, because most Christians have not thought about this issue. And I would, rather than start with science, because most people aren't really into science,

I would start by pointing them to the issue of the problem of millions of years of death and disease and suffering, because most people, when they say, well, you know,

God created over millions of years, they don't realize it's what the evolutionists say happened in those millions of years.

It's not empty time. And the millions of years of death and disease and suffering destroys the

Bible's teaching about the original very good creation, destroys the Bible's teaching about the impact of the fall on the whole creation, and undermines why

Jesus is coming again to restore the creation. So that theological or biblical point, most

Christians—and I have found in my studies, in my interactions with evangelical theologians, most theologians haven't thought that issue through.

And it's critical. And so the Christian you're talking to, he doesn't have to know anything about geology, he doesn't have to know anything about Hebrew or Greek or get into any complicated things.

That important point of the impact of the fall is the impossibility of the millions of years.

And once I see when Christians begin to grasp that, then they say, wow, this is connected to the gospel.

This is really connected to the whole Bible and why I'm trusting Jesus. And so that then motivates him, oh, maybe

I need to do a little bit of homework in the scientific evidences. And if you're thinking about reaching out to an unbeliever, but you're nervous how to take that first step, one, pray about it.

I mean, it sounds cliche, but be praying for them. Pray for an opportunity to reach out to them. And when

God gives you that opportunity, because he will, take advantage of it and use it, but don't lose sight of the goal.

The goal is not just to persuade them that that creation is true. The goal is not just to show how many arguments you've learned and how right you are and how wrong they are.

The goal is to lead them to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Also, the Romans 1, I'm not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God and the salvation to those who believe to the

Jew first and then to the Greek or Gentile. And I think we need to keep the gospel at the forefront of what we do.

But those arguments that skeptics use, those can be stumbling blocks that prevent people from seeing the cross.

So we want to deal with those, but never lose sight of the goal. Pat, for me,

I think it would be to encourage people that you're witnessing to, to have a spirit of humility when they look at this issue and look into the scripture.

I used to get frustrated with people that I would view as compromised Christians, like, oh my gosh, I can't believe they don't trust the

Genesis account. They discount the whole thing as myth or whatever. But then I had a very humbling experience a few years ago.

And I realized that the only reason I believe in the truth of creation in Genesis is because God gave me the gift of understanding that.

It wasn't because I was smart. It wasn't because I was an evidence guy. It wasn't because I figured it all out. It's because the

Holy Spirit took me on a journey to allow me to uncover or discover what was already there.

But I don't know if I would have taken that journey if I didn't first approach scripture with the humility of a child, because I had missed it for the first 30 years of my

Christian walk. I didn't see the truth of Genesis and creation. I used to sit in circles around church and just hear people talking about a young nurse or man walking with dinosaurs and really arrogantly think of these people like, oh my gosh, well, they're, they're just part of the

Christians that are the cute homeschoolers or they're the fundamentalists or whatever. I can't believe they believe in this stuff, but the tables got turned on me because when

I really approached this topic with humility and inquisitiveness and humbled myself under God's word like a child, then the

Lord took me on a faith discovery journey where I discovered, oh my gosh, it's all true and came to places like this and went to the

Ark Encounter and walked through the halls of the Creation Museum and realized the evidence is really on our side.

But I think for me, humility was necessary to put the key in and turn the lock. And I think we need to remember that as Christians to encourage people to approach and regard scripture with an attitude of humility.

What did you notice? The difference in living your life as a Christian? Was there a change after you just decided,

I'm just going to accept the word as true and not, how did that actually change your life? For me, it was about a three month conversion process.

I had been a Christian since I was 11 years old and, but didn't really know what

I believed about Genesis until I took the discovery, looking into dinosaurs and geology, and then after I came to that realization, it was like being born again.

Again, it was a huge shift that I went through. It changed the way I raised my family, changed the way, how confident

I was and with respect to evangelizing or reaching out to people, because now I knew for certain

God's word is true, both theologically and historically and scientifically.

So it was then that my, my heart had permission to join with my head and that 18 inch separation was no longer a chasm.

I became one. It very, it was a very settering and drowning experience. And Dr. Biddle, you're the executive producer of this, uh, this film.

It's amazing that God took you from not believing in the literal accounts of historical flood to now you're the executive producer of this movie.

It's, it's really amazing the journey that God takes us on. It's a humbling process. We all have to run our lanes in the

Lord. The movie was not my idea. It happened to me about two and a half years ago.

I was flat down with, with COVID. My brother had just passed away. My mom's cancer returned and my kids left and I was an empty nester.

So it was a very downstage of my life that the Lord just gave me a calling and a commissioning to rally the troops and do this because I knew how much

Noah's flood shifted my life and shifted my Christianity that I just had a passion for, you know,

God break my heart for what breaks yours. And I went through such a life transformation when

I understand understood the historicity of God's word. I really wanted other people to see that.

And then the Lord just began assembling a team of people and providing the resources to get this movie made.

So it's my sincere hope that everyone who sees this goes through that similar faith journey and understanding as it's truly a metamorphosis that you can go through.

Listen, if you're sitting here tonight and you're saying I've got to learn more about all of this, these men have produced all kinds of materials and books and videos and just all kinds of resources.

Dr. Chafee, can you tell us about maybe some places that they can go to learn more? Yeah, sure. So Dr. Snelling and Dr.

Mortenson and I, we all work for an organization called Answers in Genesis, which is a large apologetic organization has been around for about 30 years.

And we've got thousands and thousands of articles on our website, answers in genesis .org, where they can find out details about all of these things and so much more dealing with biblical authority and the age of the earth and those issues.

You can probably see right behind us, we've got this huge, beautiful structure. There's a big boat there.

That's the, or ship as we like to call it. But that is a, it's not really a replica of Noah's ark because they don't know exactly what it looked like, but it is built to the scale described in the

Bible. And so if you've never been to the Ark Encounter, you got to come to Williamstown, Kentucky and check it out. You get the tour of the

Ark, you get exhibits throughout. And we also have a zoo and all sorts of other things being built here. So it's always changing.

Even if you've been here once before, you got to come back. And while you're here, you also have to go to the Creation Museum, which is just about 40 minutes away.

So for more details about either one of those places or both those places, you go to arkencounter .com or creationmuseum .org.

And the Answers in Genesis website is answersingenesis .org. Yeah. Both of those are just amazing to visit.

It's just incredible. And you can also go there too. You can go to the different websites, right? To, to get more information as you're learning.

Okay. And Dr. Price, you have been doing a ministry for many, many years. Tell us about your organization and how did they get in touch with you?

Organization's called World of the Bible Ministries, worldofthebible .com. There's information basically on the

Bible and apologetics, but also a unique focus on archeology. Okay. And also Ark in the

Darkness. You've got a website. Where do they go and what will they find there? The movie website is just knowasflood .com

without the apostrophe S, just knowasflood .com. And they can find a whole bunch of FAQs there, short videos.

We link to Anthros and Genesis website, the Ark Encounter and have all kinds of free resources.

They can download a free book there as well. That kind of summarizes the basics of the flood. But that's the website, just knowasflood .com.

Okay. Did you catch what he said? You can actually download a free book. So if you want to learn more, wow, what a great way to do it.

Where do they go again for the book? knowasflood .com and then just put in the email and get a free download for the book.

Gentlemen. Thank you so much for your ministries and just how you have shared with us so much important information.

And for you, remember God's calling you to be a person of action that goes out and follows his lead in the adventure, just like the adventure we talked about.

So I really encourage you to get out there and share the information that you've heard tonight. Thank you so much for being here.