The American Churchman: Evangelical Elites and the Trump Era

Welcome to the American Churchman podcast, where we talk about all kinds of things, but things pertaining to men who are Christians in the United States and want to live their faith. They want to know the Lord Jesus Christ better.

They want to serve their neighbors, and I am joined today with Pastor Tom Rush. Thank you for joining us once again. I think this is the second time on this particular podcast, and we appreciate it.

Yes, sir.

Glad to be here, John. Thank you.

And for those wondering, Matthew Pearson had a lot of homework this week for seminary, so that is the reason that he is not with us today. So Tom graciously said he could fill in, and we're going to talk about what we usually talk about.

We're talking about the attributes of God. We're also going to talk about an article that we kind of co-wrote on reactions to the election from evangelicals, and then also pontificating about what evangelicalism might look like in the future, given the results of this election.

And yeah, so those are the main things. And before we get to all that, though, I just want to let everyone know that this podcast is sponsored by TruthScript. You can go to truthscript .com if you want to know more.

And if you want to donate to our cause, you can scroll down to the bottom. We actually have the monthly donation option now, as I understand it. So you click donate, and yeah, you can do a one-time or a reoccurring.

But that helps us pay for conferences and everything else we're doing. Some of you are enjoying the content from our men's retreat, and that was paid for by TruthScript. So the honorariums for the speakers, the production of the videos, that wasn't included in the price to come to the conference, like most conferences charge.

We figure we want to get it as low as possible so men can come, and then TruthScript covers the rest. So if you're interested in helping us, that's what it goes to. And we do have another conference coming up in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, pretty soon.

It's actually in Selinsgrove, if I'm pronouncing that right, which is right next to Lancaster, to be able to just know Lancaster more. But it's Christianity and the Founding Conference, christianityandthefounding .com if you want to know more.

Those are our speakers so far. And we are going to introduce, I don't have it yet, we have a rough schedule, so it's going to be a Friday into Sunday morning. But we do have a dinner we want to do as well.

And so I'll be announcing that later on. That would be an extra cost if you wanted to do a speaker's dinner with us. So looking forward to that next April. And I think those are all the announcements.

So, yeah, let's talk.

Hunting, Dogs, and the Start of the Program

So, yeah.

So how's everything going? So, I mean, the election happened and I've been happy every day. I mean, I just can't stop smiling.

I'm just overjoicing at the goodness of God in this process. You know, when the article, you know, we talked a little bit about the lesser of two evils. But, you know, I had a pastor tell me today, he said, I didn't vote for Trump because I thought he was the lesser of two evils.

I thought he was a good man for the job.

Yeah, I feel the same way. I don't, I reject that line of thinking personally because I just don't think that way. I think there's a task and I only have a limited amount of options. And Trump was, after the primary process, the only alternative we really had, the serious alternative to Kamala Harris.

So I'm very grateful. And I I'm just happy in general. It's hunting season. I actually only went out once, which was today for like two hours. It was pathetic. But I just love sitting in the woods. Are you a hunter at all?

I don't know if you.

Well, yeah, I have been. I kind of my preference is hunting birds, you know, quail and pheasant. But I just really haven't had much opportunity to do that. I lived out west in New Mexico and, you know, we could we could hunt the birds out there.

I really enjoyed it. But Georgia, the only the only pheasant hunting we have here now is, you know, the farm kind of thing. It's not really a fair fight.

So well, they say that the American grasslands, like the where the pheasant used to hide, have disappeared. And that's kind of destroyed their ecosystem they live in. That's what I've heard. I don't know if that's.

Yeah, and that's true. That's why, you know, West Texas, New Mexico is where I did that hunting. And, you know, there's still a lot of milo and corn and all that stuff out there. So there's a lot of ground cover for them.

And, you know, to me, the best thing about about going birdhunting is watching the dog work.

Watching the what?

Oh, the dog.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, I've never done that kind of hunting, and I've always thought that would be fun because of the relationship with a dog. And, of course, this is American churchmen, and these are very manly things.

I think every man should go hunting at some point. And if you have the available, if you have a yard and you should have a dog, I mean, that's kind of if you can and not everyone can. I can't right now, but I want to.

Yeah, I have, I have a pit bull and, you know, these pit bulls, they get, uh, he's a pit mix, but, you know, they get this bad reputation. He's the sweetest dog in the world. And anytime, uh, cause we're, we're kind of in a drought right now down here in Georgia.

We need rain pretty badly, but anytime we have a thunderstorm, he climbs under my desk shivering.

He's probably, I don't, I've never seen a pit bull do like bird hunting. I, you probably couldn't.

No, no, he's not a, he's not a hunter, not at all. And he's, of course, he's too old for that anyway. But, uh, no, you need a good bird dog. He's, he definitely would not make a good bird.

My uncle had a pit bull and it was a huge thing. I mean, it was just, it was dangerous. I mean, he really was, but, uh, he named a mouse, which is just funny because it's a huge thing. Uh, but, uh, anyway, well, let's, um, let's talk about, you know, I almost forgot.

We, we start with an attribute of God, so we need to do that. And today the attribute of God, a God that we want to discuss is God's omnipresence. So any thoughts before I read some scriptures on that faster, Tom?

The Omnipresence of God

Well, yeah, I mean, it's, it's a tremendous thought. I think the mistake sometimes we make, uh, John, when we talk about the attributes of God is we sometimes ascribe to the devil attributes that only belong to God.

And omnipresence is one of them. Some people have this idea that the devil's everywhere. He's not, he's a, he's a single being. He can only be in one place at one time. I think we could conjecture that he could move as fast as lightning.

That's because Jesus saw him fall from heaven, like lightning. So he may be fast, but he can only be in one place at one time. God is everywhere. Uh, he, he, he sees everything. You know, the last time we talked, we, we, we were talking a little bit about, uh, you know, the idea of private or secret sins.

And the reality is if God is omnipresent, there's no such thing as a secret sin. Uh, God sees them all. And of course, scripture is very clear about that as well. Uh, that God sees and knows everything we do.

If that's the case, he has to be everywhere.

Yeah.

And that is a good point about the devil, because this is a, uh, and we've been dividing the attributes of, this is a non-communicable attribute. There's no other being, uh, that exists that is omnipresent.

God is the only being that is omnipresent. So here's just a few verses about that. Uh, Psalm 139 is one of the go-tos, uh, verses seven through 10 says, where can I go from your spirit? Or where can I flee from your presence?

If I ascend to heaven, you were there. If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, you are there. If I take the wings of the dawn, if I dwell in the remotest part of the sea, even there, your hand will lead me and your right hand will lay hold of me.

Um, Proverbs 15, three, the eyes of the Lord are in every place watching the evil and the good. There's so many of these verses. We could just spend a long time reading them. Uh, Acts 17, 27 through 28.

Um, Paul talks about how the pagans that, uh, that God is patient with them, wanting them to repent that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for him and find him though. He is not far from each one of us for in him, we live and move and exist.

As even some of your poets have said for, we also are his children. Uh, I don't know if that's, you know, I don't actually, that's a one that was in my list, but I, I'm not certain if that's actually about the omnipresence of God, maybe.

Cause he is not far from each one of us. Maybe, maybe that's that proximity.

Yeah, I think that would, uh, that would indicate that if God's not far from you, he's, he's everywhere. He's watching his eyes run to and fro throughout the whole earth. The scripture says, um, I've got a sermon that I preach out of Proverbs 30, which I title, you know, what's a man to do, but sometimes I'll apply it to what's a church to do.

And it's where that wise man that Solomon knew named Edgar, uh, is talking to Ithiel and Yucal. We don't know if those were two men that just have some questions for him, or maybe they were his two sons, but he's giving them advice about what to do.

And, uh, you know, what essentially he tells them is, is that we need to teach and train our children about the things of God, but, uh, he, he refers to himself as a stupid or brutish man, because he doesn't have the knowledge of the Holy one.

He's very self deprecating. And what he's essentially saying is I don't know as much about God as I ought to. As men, that's, that's a big part of our problem. We don't put the time in with God. We don't spend time with God.

I mean, I think pastors oftentimes, I know I've been guilty of it in my ministry is that, you know, I'm going to count, uh, sermon preparation and writing Sunday school lessons and things like that, but I sometimes skip that devotion time with the Lord where I'm just communicating with God and hearing from God.

And so, uh, when, when he wrote this, he says, I've not learned wisdom nor have knowledge of the Holy one. But then he asked some questions that are, uh, that, that fall right into this idea of God's attributes.

He says, who's ascended into heaven or descended who's gathered the wind in his fist, who's bound the waters in a garment, who's established all the ends of the earth, what is his name and what is his son's name, if you know, and, and so to me, that indicates, you know, the omnipresence, the omnipotence and omniscience of God, all in one.

You know, I use an illustration one in this sermon about my dad, when, when I was growing up, my dad was an electrical engineer and very successful at what he did, but I always thought that my dad should have been in law enforcement because as a kid, I couldn't get away with anything, you know, in fact, I'd be standing around with my buddies, right.

And, uh, they'd be wanting to pull some prank or something. And somebody would say, well, we can't do that. That's when I was like, why not? Well, cause rush is here. Well, what's that got to do with it?

His dad will catch us. So, you know, my dad was just like, he had like eyes in the back of his head. He knew everybody in town. Well, my illustration is if, if my dad could know that much about what I was doing as a boy, how much more does God know about what we're doing is everywhere.

His eyes run to and fro throughout the whole earth. And, uh, so, uh, the, um, the omnipresence of God should be a comfort to us. And it also should be, uh, a penchant against sin. We ought to, uh, recognize that, um, God is watching.

God is listening.

Yeah.

And then Jesus talks about this too. When he says that not even the sparrow, right. Uh, falls to the earth without your heavenly father knowing, and he knows the hairs on your head. So there's intimate knowledge about all things that he's created as part of his, his, um, uh, attribute, uh, attributes of being a creator.

Right.

Um, I would, I would ask you this, though, this is apologetics question. And so the Eastern religion, some of them at least posit that, um, well, there's pantheism and then there's pan antheism, right?

So in pantheism, everything God is in is everything and pan antheism or entheism, um, God is in everything.

Right.

So, so which are like, so, so one's equivalent God and everything are the same. The other one is there's like a, an infusion of God. And I actually hear that a lot more in some of the new age stuff that, you and, um, so that's obviously not the same attribute that we are talking about, because we're talking about a personal deity, the creator of the universe, but I do see this, um, similarity in that they believe that you can't ever escape God, that God is everywhere.

And so I, I do think some Christians, uh, I don't know if you've come across people like this, they will take that concept from these other religions and they'll infuse it or import it into Christianity and say, that's what God's like, he's, um, everywhere because he he's in each of us and.

Uh, and that's not what we're talking about. So, so I don't know if you can put some further description on, on what you're saying, because like, God doesn't literally have eyes when I walk into the grocery store or in my bed.

Like, I don't see physical eyes there, but he has a knowledge of it somehow.

Right.

Well, I mean, he's a spirit. He doesn't have a body. God manifest what he was like in the person of Jesus Christ. So he came to, uh, demonstrate for us as, so that we could better understand it in an anthropomorphic way, what God is like God, Jesus was God in human form.

But you, you mentioned it at the beginning. It's personal. God is a personal deity and, uh, he, we establish a relationship with him. So it's not just that there's this little divine spark in you. Um, and, and there's a, there's the presence of God.

Uh, and there are, I think, different aspects to the presence of God. While God is everywhere, knows everything, hears everything, sees everything. There is a sense also within Christianity where, uh, you know, Jesus said, I'm going to send the Holy spirit.

He's going to indwell in your life. And so the Holy spirit's living inside of me. Uh, you know, the, the, the old man's been done away with, I'm a new man. I've put off the old man. I'm a new man. Now I'm still stuck in a body of sin and in the fleshly body.

So I have to fight the flesh, the world, and the devil. But as a, as a Christian, I'm a new man in Christ. I have a new, a completely new nature. And, uh, it's not that the new nature is fighting the old nature.

The old nature is gone. The new nature is fighting flesh.

There is a place where God specifically dwells. You mentioned, uh, for Christians, he dwells in each believer. Um, we also find in scripture in multiple places that God dwells in the heavens and that to be damned is to be separated from God.

So how do those things square where that God seems to have an actual dwelling place and you're separated from him in hell, but at the same time he's omnipresent.

Yeah.

So there's, there's, I think this, the reality of the presence of God, you know, when, when I travel away from home, um, I'm not physically present with my wife, but I still sense her presence. I talked to her on the phone.

I, you know, I mean, it's just kind of like, I keep her in my mind even when I travel. And so, uh, I've always said to people, you know, the worst thing about hell is not the torment and the fire. And the best thing about heaven is not the streets of gold and all those kinds of things.

The best thing about heaven is that's where Jesus is. And the worst thing about hell is that's where he is not. So there's not that infused, uh, indwelling type presence of God that we know. And yet in hell, there will still be the reality that Jesus is who he is.

And it's kind of an overruling, ominous kind of presence in hell. Um, it's, it's not that they don't know Jesus exists. He's there. He controls hell. A lot of people, John, I think get this idea that, you know, the devil sitting down there in hell on the little throne by the thermostat and people get thrown in and he kicks it up a couple of degrees.

The, the issue is, is that that's the devil's forever house. It's on fire and he can't get in to put it out.

Right.

He's going to be thrown in there and, and, and vanish there. And, and so I think you have to separate the kinds of presence of God. God is everywhere and in control of everything, but we want to be in his presence to worship him and glorify him forever.

That's what we look forward to.

I think of it too. In, in the terms of, uh, the Ark of the covenant in the Old Testament that God dwelt, um, the Shekinah glory was there in a special way where they would take the Ark into battle to gain victory, but it's not like God wasn't aware and wasn't also still in control when the Ark wasn't present on the battlefield.

So, um, there's a mysterious nature to some of this that is,.

There is, but it is, you mentioned the Ark too. And, and you know, Hollywood made a big deal about the Ark being lost, but God doesn't lose his stuff.

Yeah.

I know exactly where the Ark is and if you want to find out, read Revelation chapter 11, it's right there in heaven.

Oh, oh, well, I was going to say, I thought it was in a warehouse somewhere in a government facility, but yeah, it's in God's warehouse. It's in God's warehouse. All right. Well, um, with that, that was, that was excellent.

Thank you for discussing that. And we already have some questions coming. I'm wondering, maybe we should just answer these before we get to the article. So if you have other questions, please, um, send them in, uh, on X or YouTube or Facebook, and I will get to them at the end of the program.

But, uh, since I see some questions already, I'm going to go to some of these and one of them is definitely, uh, tailored for you, Pastor Tom. I'll, I'll start if I can find it again. Let's see.

Should Christians Join the Military?

Yeah.

I'll start with that one. Would you encourage your child to join any branch of the military as a Christian today? You're, you're an, uh, an ex chaplain from two branches. So maybe you would have some insight.

Well, well, sure. Um, you know, um, I had a wonderful 28 years in the military. I'm so grateful for, you know, the doors that God opened for me to serve. Um, unfortunately the military is a very different organization today.

Um, but, uh, that said as a Christian, uh, you need to take Jesus with you, no matter what area you go into. Would it be good for a Christian, uh, parents to encourage their child to go into education?

Would it be good for them to encourage them to go into banking? Well, yes, it'd be good to encourage them to go into any field, uh, that is not utterly and completely contrary to, you know, Christian ministry and Christian faith.

Uh, take your Christianity to the military. There are men and women in the military. That's a mission field. One of the things about, you know, that I learned about being a chaplain is I got to go places that pastors didn't get to go.

Uh, there were, there were no pastor. When I was in Afghanistan, there were no pastors over there. I was the pastor and I got to minister to, uh, the men and women who were serving there. And of course, at that time, that was back in 2004 and five when I was there.

Uh, just, uh, tremendous opportunities were open to me to share my faith and talk to people about the Lord. Uh, so, uh, and, and you can, you can do that. You don't have to be a chaplain to share your faith.

Uh, and in fact, uh, that may, that may be a detriment to sharing your faith because all of the chaplain corps now are corrupt. Uh, and so, you know, if, if you're going to go into the military as a chaplain, you're going to face, uh, some real, some real difficult, uh, times, uh, I'm afraid.

Yeah.

I actually considered that and ultimately talking to chaplains. I heard some good stories, you know, people who are surviving, depending on what branch and where they were, but there was enough bad stories that.

I thought, nah, I don't like where this is going well, you know, I, uh, I think I lost, you know, I, that's, that's the reason I ended up in the air force is I got crosswise with the Navy chaplain corps, um, and you know, they were saying, well, you can't pray in Jesus name.

And my response to that was always, Hey, when I'm praying, I'm not talking to you, don't worry about it. That was my response. And, uh, and so, but if you do that, you get a reputation and the chaplain corps control promotions.

But, and the bottom line is I ended up, uh, transferring over the air force. They treated me very well. And, uh, you know, and I, I, you know, I finished my career and, uh, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change anything about it.

And in my case, I knew when I went in, I had been a regular Navy officer. I was a ship driver and missile shooter and God called me to preach and went seminary shifted over to the chaplain corps. I knew when I went in that, uh, it was probably going to be a window of ministry opportunity because I knew I wasn't going to compromise.

And, uh, so, uh, take your convictions with you. And so, yeah, I would encourage a kid to, uh, pursue the military. Great training. It'll create great. If you don't stay, you know, for a retirement in the military, you get tremendous training.

It opens a lot of doors, uh, wherever we work in the secular world, we just need to take Jesus with us.

Amen.

Now I have a clarification question here from Alan. He says the flesh and the sinful nature are separate things. Question mark. I will think about that. Did you say that? Did you say the flesh and the sinful nature were separate?

Well, I said, the old nature is gone. So it depends on what you want to talk more, how you want to define the term sinful nature. Uh, you know, you're a new man in Christ. And Paul says you're a new creation in Christ.

All things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new. We're new creatures in Christ. Uh, but we're in a fleshly body and that fleshly body is going to cause us to tend to sin. So we still have to fight sin.

Okay.

All right.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, I understand that. I think one of the analogy that helped me with that was, um, you have clean garments, you know, you're, and you're justified, you're going to, that's a guaranteed conclusion there.

But, uh, as you walk in this world, you get your feet dirty.

Sure.

So that helped me for some reason, understand, um, that whole dynamic. Why do I still sin?

You know?

All right. So I, I need to clarify real quick, this won't take long, but chip seal says Christ died and rose, and it turns out that there is no other way for sinners to rise again, apart from him, make America great again.

Are you serious? Apart from Christ, there is no hope. So just to clarify for everyone, neither pastor Tom nor myself are saying that Donald Trump is a Messiah figure or can save your soul, uh, from hell.

That's only Jesus Christ. Uh, we are only saying that Donald Trump was a preferable option for the executive branch of our government.

Yeah.

And that's it. It just like a surgeon or any other, you know, um, authoritative figure in our lives who might not even be a Christian. We want competency in those fields. And, uh, we're not looking to those people as Messiahs.

So yeah, we're not, we're electing a president, not a pastor.

That's right.

We're looking at policy, not necessarily personality. Um, and if, if you've ever, if you've ever voted in any election, you voted for a sinful man.

That's right. That's right.

Cause we're all sinners.

Uh, and then Michael wants to know why I'm excited about him appointing nothing but neocons. And I'll just say, I, I share the frustration. I'm still just happy that Trump's making these decisions and not Harris.

But, um, yeah, I, I've seen some of the picks and I'm wondering why. Uh, why some of them are the, you know, like what Christie gnome, I think was today. I think he, he picked her for, uh, was a secretary of defense.

And, uh, you know, Christie gnome has some issues from like caving to the transgender sports thing in her state and, um, and then, and having this affair and things like that. So, yeah, I, I see problems, uh, with some of this, but, um, I'm just hopeful that, you know, this is better than what could have been.

And, uh, I am waiting to see what happens. Um, I don't know if you remember, I mean, obviously we, we both lived through it, but in 2016, Trump fired so many people that he hired for these positions because they would.

And I do think the pool is small. I do think that is not making an excuse for him necessarily. Um, but it is a more of a challenge. The Democrats can field. Tons of people to fill these roles. And when Trump gets in there to find America first, you know, not swamp creatures to fill these roles, that's a tough challenge.

So, um, let's pray for him.

Lesser of Two Evils, or the Best Available Option

Well, I mean, we, one of the things that we want to see happen is for the government to get smaller. The government is overwhelmingly large and a lot of these positions don't need to be replaced. They need to be eliminated.

Like the department of education.

Exactly.

I was so happy when I heard he wanted to get rid of that.

Yeah.

And there, but there's a whole lot of other departments that need to be gotten rid of.

I think I saw it today. Kennedy already plans to fire 500 employees from, uh, what is it? The, is it not, is it the NIH?

Whatever.

I can't see. We have so many of the departments. I can't even keep them straight. It's hard to keep them straight now, but, uh, FDA, NIH, whatever.

Yeah.

Uh, all right. So let's, let, let, let's go to our article and we'll get to other questions at the end here. Um, so this, this article was written actually over the course of a few days, because, uh, it started, I think on, I don't know, it was Saturday night, but I was on my way back from, uh, let's see here if I can pull it up.

There we go.

I was on my way back from a trip and I was just on my phone as my wife was driving the last stretch. And, uh, I started putting some thoughts down and then pastor Tom added some thoughts, and then I went back and added some more thoughts.

And, um, I think we should just talk about this category by category. And then for those who have already read this, maybe you've listened to my podcast on evangelical reactions. I am going to play a video and I haven't talked about this before.

This is new material, but I'm gonna play a video from Michael Ware and Justin Giboney of the and campaign and their reaction to the election. So we'll, we'll get there. But first the title of this article, the evangelical church is not dead.

And, uh, it starts out, we basically say that, uh, this, this was more than just a referendum on the establishment in the government, this was also a rejection of what many evangelical elites, if you want to use that term, I don't know what other term to use, but people who have been influential like Russell Moore, like David French.

Um, no, even I mentioned John Piper. He didn't push like to vote for Democrats, but you know, he was very much open to it. Uh, I remember, and I think it was 2016 when he talked about this and even said there were people on his staff who were voting for Obama, it was actually, that would have been 2012 and he tweeted out, you know, his reaction, which was that God has delivered us from one evil, but now test us with another.

So.

Um, that was his reaction. Russell Moore chalked Trump's victory up to an infatuation with Americans, uh, that Americans have with entertainment, um, David French encouraged Christians to stand courageous in the face of MAGA.

Like you can see that there, there has been, if you've been paying attention, a rejection of Trump from the elites in the Southern Baptist convention and evangelicalism more broadly, it takes different forms, but in 2020, uh, evangelicals still voted for Trump at about the same rate, 81%, but Trump didn't win.

So they still had, I think some, uh, credibility perhaps, but this time around Trump did win by some pretty thick margins, evangelicals in the pews have not followed their leaders. And this is bad for them.

So I just may, I point out, look, this is a rejection of the ruling class in the evangelical movement. Uh, so that's the first part. I don't know if you have any comments on that, but I do find that intriguing that you have organizations that at the top are so opposed to this guy, but.

Their followers can't get enough of them.

That's right.

Well, you know, I think too, I'm just going to say this. I think to some degree, uh, the people out there, uh, sitting in the pew are tired of paying twice what it's worth for eggs and gas and every other commodity that they're purchasing.

I think sometimes that, you know, even evangelicals have enough sense to know that if we run out of money, we're all in trouble, you know, if the economy dies, we're all in trouble.

Our missions efforts are in trouble.

I mean, building new planting churches on, you know, uh, everything that we do in the evangelical world in terms of ministry for Christ costs money. I'm sorry. It just does. And, uh, you know, we need to take care of our, uh, pastors and our church staffs and all those sorts of things.

And so, uh, I really think that the economy had some to do with it, but I also think that people in the pew are not as ignorant as our evangelical elites would like to think that they are. I actually think that we've got a lot of people in our churches that can actually think for themselves.

And, and they see the danger of this. And I think that there are more pastors that are, uh, speaking out against these evangelical elites. I know, you know, we've been told for years, I know when I came into the ministry back into the, in the early eighties, you know, you were kind of told that you couldn't talk about politics in the pulpit, uh, and, you know, and I started studying a little bit of history and I realized that if pastors hadn't talked about politics in the pulpit, there would have never been an American revolution and we'd still be English.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, and so, and the other thing, you know, I would tell folks, look, I didn't surrender my first amendment rights when I was ordained to the ministry. And so I think pastors have to challenge people, um, to, to do the, to do the right thing.

And I think more of them are doing that. I think, I think folks have had enough and that certainly seemed to be evident in the election. It was by all rights, a landslide. When the Republican wins the popular vote and wins the electoral vote pretty well by a landslide and you got to figure you're losing New York and California right off the bat.

I mean, that's almost a hundred between those two States. You're, you're a third of the way there if you get those two States. So I think Trump's victory was, um, magnanimous in that regard.