Supreme Court and Churches, Remember that Covid Stuff? Hyper-preterism Debate

Greetings, welcome to the Divine Line. My name is James White along with Riche Pierre behind the controls. Trying as best he can to rehabilitate the the reputation of the French people. Tall mountain to climb mountain to climb.

Opening Banter and Show Setup

Really really rough. I'm I'm I thought I'd I'd you know, bring you along into the introduction, you know. And I mean you're you working hard in there or hardly working one of the two. I'm not sure which you know, but you know, I mean, it's rough days.

Neither one of us knows where you get home, you know, so do you just Want to make sure one? Yeah, that's right, that's right, that's right. And we'll take a lot of them with them with us if we don't so that's sort of how that's working.

I Commented on a Video that people are now seeing. Where this guy runs up behind this woman this Mark Dice and You know, she's walking along. Of course wearing her mask you know doing her virtue signaling and then he actually asks her to get down on her knees and ask for forgiveness for Her white privilege and she does now could that have been staged?

Of course, of course. It could have been. I don't know whether it was or wasn't the scary thing is I Think in a lot of places today if this were to happen in reality, and it may have. That would be the kind of reaction you would get and I added a I said just a note.

Not a good idea to rush up behind me or a lot of my fellow Americans right now could result in sudden onset violent lead poisoning. Which you know someone coming up behind you. If you haven't if you've been living in a lead mine and you haven't been watching the beatings.

The people come up behind people and just cold cocking them just taking them right out right then and there. You haven't been paying attention. Of course, I'm Not gonna be walking along where this lady was walking to be perfectly honest.

You're probably not alone. But what we're seeing.

And.

The reactions that we're getting it because I I haven't looked yet, but I I.

Sort of.

Rhetorically asked yesterday if Ed Stetzer had withdrawn his wild and crazy tweet that he had. That he had posted and Yeah, I don't I don't I don't see that I don't see that he has I really wouldn't suggest I wouldn't really wouldn't expect that he that he would.

But.

We are seeing. Such a scattered response. There's not it is not a unified Christian response to what's going on. That's. That's because there's not a unified Christian understanding and that's not because of scriptural insufficiency.

That is because of human tradition. In fact, I think this is a beautiful illustration of the importance of solo scriptura. If you if you cannot see.

How.

External traditions and beliefs and authorities are. Determining exactly how people are responding to the current crisis, then you're just not looking if you actually think that the Bible can be twisted and turned in all these dozens of different directions and on the one hand have such clear I mean just in arguable statements about human behavior God's law.

Which which includes property rights and safety and. We were talking on the last program the the need to have multiple witnesses and we looked at excess 22 and the fact that Someone tries to break into your house and you crack them over the head and they die.

That's what you get for breaking into somebody's house I mean just straightforward. So you've got you've got that and you don't have anything in the New Testament that changes any of that. You don't have any.

There there's just no way to go. Well, that was just for Israel. Yeah, okay.

A.

Certain offering on a certain feast day was only for Israel. The moral content of how human beings are to live amongst other human beings wasn't just for Israel. And if you want to see the evidence of that then just look at at Leviticus chapter 18 and The fact that the nations were cast out of the land for certain behaviors That are then repeated in there being prohibited to the people of Israel.

But the land cast them out for having done these things so There was application outside the people of Israel to these things. There are certain Moral realities that simply cannot be escaped. So you've got that level of clarity and then you have others who are literally running about saying that to follow Jesus is To march with the protesters now if all you're talking about.

If all you're talking about is.

To do.

What Jeff and Luke did on Apology Radio last week? Broke down what happened with the Floyd murder and said, yeah, this is murder. Okay, that's that's straightforward there. Isn't it amazing? I think someone panicked.

Because there was pretty much Complete unanimity everybody. All agreed. Yep. That guy was that guy was in the wrong that there needs to be charges filed. And you you you but I didn't see anybody run around saying all that that cop needed to do exactly what he did.

And but I didn't see that you had everybody together and I think that panicked people. We can't have unity like this. We need to divide we need to we need to get a race war going and that's what they did.

And.

So Do you literally have people? Who are saying well, you know, in fact, there was this one guy and I tweeted to him I don't know what I got a response. I haven't been able to find a response. But some professor at Midwestern, I think I think it was at Midwestern.

Where he he basically said we're we're we're reaping what we've sown well yeah in the sense of sinful rebellion. Detestation of God's law love of rebellion against God's law, so. We love the perversion of the marriage bed.

We love the murder of unborn children we we love all all kinds of things that are just Directly opposed to God's will and we make these goods in our society. They're good things. It's it's a good thing to do this kind of stuff.

Gender confusion and we're abusing our children and and all the rest of this kind of stuff. If you mean that kind of reaping, yeah, but it looked like the context was.

In.

Regards to the looting I mean in regards to an SUV running police officers over last night. In regards to a Las Vegas police officer being shot in the back of the head he has since passed away. That we are.

Reaping what we have sown in other words Social justice the social justice movement the neo-marxist social justice movement intersectionality all of this stuff has Invaded over the past number of years it became really clear in early 2018 with the MLK 50 celebrations.

That's all it's all of a sudden when The words that were being used became understandable to us slow people. It's not that I hadn't had Votie Balcombe on in 2010, I think Talking about ethnic Gnosticism and stuff like that, but we're slow and It took time to go.

Whoa, you mean that you mean I mean that will just destroy that just that's like battery acid. It would destroy churches. It would destroy societies. Yep. That's what it's designed to do. That's its intention.

I Mean it is perfectly designed to do exactly what it is doing right now break everything down. Destroy everything make every person separate from every other person my needs in Contrast to your needs break everything down that used to bind us together.

That used to allow us to overlook differences to work together blow all of that right out the door. And once it's all gone and you've got utter chaos. Then you rebuild it the way you want to rebuild it, which would be a socialist utopia.

Which of course doesn't exist? No such thing as a socialist utopia. Once socialism gets that point it becomes communism and we know what communism results in. There is no communist or socialist utopia because of something called sin.

Okay, just doesn't work can't work won't happen. But with the technological Advancements that have been made If you go along Bow the knee. Then you can live. You can't have freedom you can't think differently you can be it's a drone.

But you can live you can have physical life if that's all that's all. That's the best you can do that's what you got in China and That's what people want to bring here and they're working right now to accomplish that right before our eyes right before our eyes this is happening and.

The church is.

Silent. Or is on the side of tear it all down. This is this is terrible. I mean when you think about it I'm hearing so many people saying we just got to start all over again Constitution is done get rid of it and you go, what are you gonna replace it with and Anything I could replace it with is going to be based upon a secular worldview Which has no basis whatsoever for transcendent values for true liberty for true justice and Yet all these Christians Self-proclaimed Christians helping to promote this either out of sheer naivete or very devious intentions and purposes.

But that's where that's where we are and Because obviously in 1990 if this if this had been tried in 1990, it would have failed because the The groundwork the preparation hadn't been done yet. They're working on it.

They're getting in positions of being able to do it but it hadn't been done yet and Anybody with a Bible in their hand would go. Whoa, wait a minute. No, we we have to stand firm. But they've had 30 years there to be working and now they're in positions of leadership and they're doing their doing their tweet things and so you got more and you got Stetzer and you got these folks out there doing their thing and and Yeah, pretty effective pretty effective.

They've.

So we'll see what's gonna happen. I I don't know what the future holds. I just again Have said the same thing for a long long time our our job is to determine what faithfulness looks like in any given situation we're placed in and that situation can change radically and that's my problem and Some of you are like me.

I don't like change in fact. There was a There was a word of the day recently. There it is Got a ever since I've done the sweater vest dialogues with Doug I mean, I've gotten the word for the day going so I can at least I Got to come up with something, you know, cuz when you're talking with Doug Wilson He's just gonna make you look like your vocabulary.

You have a vocabulary of a five-year-old. Misonyism misonyism hatred or dislike of what is new or represents changes. Misony is misony ism. So Miss o is to hate. So Nia's it must be something new. So hatred of what's new so misony ism.

Yeah, and then Yesterday was Scyther ism starts a piece. Scyther ism the sound of the wind through trees. I.

Like.

Scyther ism. I really really do like Scyther ism. Which is why I live in a place that only has one tree and a bunch of cacti. That way I can continue to like Scyther ism when I get to go north and enjoy it, but anyway Misony ism.

That's me. I'm a mizzen mizzeny it mizzeny is.

Mizzeny in this I.

Just don't like change and but we got change coming and it's it's coming at us really fast over the weekend. Supreme Court Declined five to four to take a case from a church, California seeking an injunction to grant them immediate relief from the burdensome onerous restrictions of the governor of California.

Remember. Remember a couple weeks ago. We were we're all about to die of a virus instead of being killed by mobs. That was just a couple weeks ago. Heart. I have to realize hard to remember. Things are moving so fast that the the big subject conversation back then.

Was.

Something that and this has been buried. This would have been the top story. But did you see the Italian.

Reports.

The Italians say that Coronavirus in Italy is dead. It has lost the ability to infect anyone now, I don't know if that's due to herd immunity. I Didn't follow what was being said, but Italian medical experts were saying.

It's basically a non-issue in Italy now. There was a report about a month ago from the Israelis Yes saying that they were Reading it that it had about a 70-day life to it. Yeah Yeah, that one of these things to where it suddenly just disappears.

So in other words if we just let it run its course.

Yeah.

We would have been done with it long time ago and that would have been it. Right. Right dick and that. And the Italians are basically saying that no one's interesting talking about this because Everything else is going on.

But isn't it funny that. Right. As this is happening all this other stuff starts happening.

Oh, no, this is this is all coincidental. It's all what it's all coincidental. Oh, I know.

Absolutely. No. All those pallets of bricks and rocks that are showing up in cities of complete.

Maybe aliens the the part maybe aliens that wants to rebuild. The part that I found most fascinating was also the cars with no.

License plates that were staged. Oh, well, and then there's that big old bus that looked like it was a child care place. Yeah, and filled with with with Molotov cocktail makings in that great.

So random that this stuff would all be happening at once. Yeah, maybe the chaos theory guys can come. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, chaos theory the guy from Jurassic Park. Yes, because he mentioned fractals by the way, and I thought that was always cool.

If.

You haven't noticed the sarcasm. It's it's because it's it's obviously not random. None of this is. But um, yeah, do you remember just a matter of weeks ago? We were talking about this and.

The.

Restrictions are still in place and Outside the u .s. This is still a major topic. But we've pretty much forgotten about it and All the looters are still isn't it? Wonderful that we back in February don't buy masks because we don't have enough for our medical people and Now we have enough for hundreds of thousands of looters.

Because they're all wearing masks and I can guarantee you it's not because they're afraid of coronavirus. That's not why they're wearing masks. No, that's that's not that's not what's going on. Oh.

Goodness.

Anyway back to the Supreme Court. The way it was first announced certainly made me go. Oh Lovely. Roberts joined the four liberals and the minority dissenting opinions. Were rather scathing It this was not a Supreme Court case when it's not same thing I mean because they even said that the plaintiffs would be free to Refile petition if anything had changed so this is not like it's this it's not like a precedent-setting thing or something like that, but It was disappointing.

It might be that Roberts looked at it and Realized it was not not the case to use. For whatever reason I don't know. That's a possibility.

But.

We still have these onerous Restrictions not only in the United States, but I know in at least one of the countries where I have a lot of connections very onerous restrictions so much so that even though some Liberty has been given for the churches to meet the restrictions are so extreme that a lot of churches like that's that's not meeting.

You know having one person in a chair over there one person chair over there one person down front and no singing and sign language only that's that's. You might as well meet online in that in that situation.

There's no no reason to get together is the thought at that point. So this continues all around the world even where there's not violence taking place and Burning cities down and and that kind of thing going on and so We will see what's going to develop from that.

My concern obviously is We have become so accustomed To running the The algebra the numbers on the court. Not realizing that means our system is no longer working. That the the founders never Intended the court to have the role that it has right now.

That was not what they intended and the fact that we now make presidential decisions and sometimes solely based on What the balance of the Supreme Court would look like not realizing The Constitution does not determine the number of justices on the Supreme Court.

Roosevelt tried to pack the court to get his Agenda through. The leftists have already said that's exactly we're gonna do. As soon as we have control we pack the court at that point. You just need to understand Once you fill the Supreme Court With individuals who believe the Constitution is a living document.

Please understand what living document means. That sounds so wonderful sounds so.

Really scholarly.

What it means is we don't have to worry about no stinking words on a page. We can make up anything we want. We can do anything we want. That's what the living document thing is all about. And once you all you gotta do is say, okay, we're gonna.

We're gonna make it 15 judges. And so now it's 11 to 4. Our side and whatever we want the Constitution to say, that's it. It's done finished. Finito nothing nothing more to be said. And What do we do then?

Yes, if I recalled Roosevelt had a supermajority in both houses and even the leftist of his day thought that was a bridge too far and Stopped him from doing it. Yeah, so but I Look around now and it's like all bets are off.

Oh, yeah, it's it's it's it's the wild wild west.

You've got Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez literally sending out Instructions as to what to bring to the protest, right? So you can pick up smoke canisters and throw them back at the cops. The enemies are not outside the gates.

They're in charge of the government. It's done. Yeah. Yeah, the the.

Trojan horse is already empty. Yep. So the horse is emptied out the gate the.

It's open and running among us. There we are. It's yeah, yeah, so to be honest with you I'm not sure that all the stuff we were really really really concerned about in regards to government overreach just a few weeks ago Is gonna make any difference.

Because Look it it's 2020. It's an election year. This is all happening in election year. This is all intended to influence the outcome of that election. Everybody knew That if you go into the election in November of 2020 With unemployment at record lows.

Employment amongst minorities at record highs.

And.

Your candidate Can't remember where he is. For the other side, they're not gonna win and so somebody hit the panic button and said, okay, let's take this place apart and. That's exactly what they've done.

And so now we're doing the mail-in stuff. I Personally will not accept the validity of a if you can as it has been. Well said if you can show up in person to loot you can show up in person to vote. It's just like.

Yeah.

There is a sad level of ironic truth to that statement. Well, obviously I'm well aware of that but there there you go. So, I don't know what's gonna happen in November.

I.

Don't see Any good choices at all. I Continue to stick by my statement That I cannot believe That Joe Biden is going to be on the ticket in November. I The only way Would be if he doesn't basically have to say anything between now and November.

Because I've listened to the man talk. He cannot string three sentences together without wandering off and talking about his hairy legs or something. The man is not functional. It's I don't know how anybody can argue that he is not mentally functional and so at some point He's gonna have to come out and say Folks my my dear loved ones have come to me as if it as if they shouldn't have already done that.

And I don't know what they're gonna do. I don't. I Don't know if there is a process in place. I Have no earthly idea, but I just can't believe it's gonna be him but whatever happens even if Donald Trump were reelected.

All that means is we've got four more years of this kind of insanity. Because it has become very very plain. That just as in every other socialist revolution. The left is willing to take the nation into utter destruction.

So as to get their way, that's that's what they've done every time in the past. It only takes it's interesting. There is a parallel here. There I was I was listening to some discussion on Islam and The percentage of Muslims in a society that is considered to be the minimum to begin to move it towards Sharia law.

It's not a large percentage. It's not 50 It's not 70 It's somewhere between 11 and 15 percent and Interesting parallels to what's going on now the vast majority of Americans are not running through streets.

The vast majority Americans are not burning down buildings the vast majority Americans want to work and watch football and Send their kids to school and whatever and get to go stop at Wendy's on the way home.

I mean that that's that's what they want and they're not out there doing all this stuff they're not the ones to make the decisions though and When you get a sufficiently large Minority To be willing to destroy that you change everything you change everything.

We already know with the Equality Act and now we're seeing Folks New Year's was not that long ago. Really was not that long ago and we have seen such radical change in such a fast time. This happens elsewhere in the world when we you know, we we look out at other nations and we we go man I remember Italy at one point it had more governments since World War two than there have been years since World War two and We look at that and go.

Oh, man, that that that's hard on the economy. You can never really get anywhere without that the blessed Consistency that we have had as a result of the Constitution. Well that kind of stuff can change quickly and How quickly well, we're watching it.

We're in the middle of it. We're in the middle of it so All that foundational stuff that we've been talking about for a long long time, man I'll tell you I'm getting really focused on it again because no matter what we're facing That's going to be Absolutely vitally important for all of us.

We have to have foundations Upon which to have principles by which we will respond to whatever situation it is. We see coming at us and One of the big challenges for us as American Christians is we have Grown up and become accustomed to the blessings of freedom and liberty.

We have many of our brothers and sisters who live in lands that do not have freedom and liberty. What if we lose ours? What do we do then? What are we gonna give up? What are we gonna be willing to give up?

What's our principles? We can't offer the pinch of incense to to Caesar and so remember I Don't know when it was Just over the past number of months. Remember I read From the letter of Cyprian to the Christians in the mines when when you hear Something like that when you hear about Christians Who have suffered the loss of?

Everything They're separated from their loved ones or their their husbands their wives their children. They have nothing the they wear rags and eat grubs and You look at that and you go. Whoa, they were wonderful.

I'm glad that could never happen here. It's almost like it's an unreal thing. Like it like it just that could never God would never call me to something like that. Yeah.

You just triggered a memory a number of years ago when we were in the midst of a controversy. You reminded those who were running around fearfully explaining what. Oh got you in there. That's not good.

Let's try this again.

I'm sitting. You're going. Both cameras red lights are on. Okay.

Not sure what to do here you you were reminding people who were screaming bloody murder about how we were Playing footsie with Islam and how Islam was gonna take over and all this other and you were reminding people that the secularists Were by far and away a bigger threat.

Oh, yeah, and here we are. Oh, yeah. Look around people. Look around. Wake up. The secularists are the ones who want you under their boot and They have the ability to do it. That's the key. They have the ability to do it and they're showing us it just a glimpse of it.

You know as I as I think about.

The.

Threat of Chinese style technocratic totalitarianism, you know that a system Like that because it is based upon the suppression of the knowledge of God and therefore fundamentally denies man being. Made in the image of God it cannot last.

It contains within itself the seeds of its own self-destruction. The Chinese communists are particularly pernicious and dangerous because the fact that they have actually realized That the Soviet Union blew it.

Because.

They.

It was so painfully obvious that you had the elites. You know like animal farm you had the animals that were more equal than the other animals. You had the elites and. They just left. The vast majority of the people in in bankrupt poverty.

So what the Chinese are doing is hey, we've got to give the people toys. We've got to give them bread and circuses. We've got to give them health care. We've got to give them a nice place maybe a car video games.

And.

Most people will trade.

Their.

Liberty and their freedom and their individuality for video games. So when you're in China You know and this story is years old now but the the social crediting system you're walking down the grocery aisle and the cameras are literally watching what you're putting into your cart and you are getting credit and D and demerit depending upon the balanced Nature of what you're purchasing in the grocery store and you put up with it and You actually go.

Yeah, I'm okay with that because they then you know, they take care of me when I get sick and they you know, I'm never without food and that's that's good enough for me and So the the question is how long could it last given?

The technical capacity to Basically know everything about everyone every action every word. How long could that last is the question. Man, I didn't want to be talking about all this stuff. But these are things I think about.

Because I'm thinking about the future. I'm not looking toward the past. Right now in our society where our heads are being dragged toward the past. We've got to deal with what happened in the past. Meanwhile, we're running directly into a brick wall called Chinese Communist Party CCP.

But we're not allowed to look forward. Gotta be looking back because you gotta get on your knees and beg for forgiveness for something that allegedly your ancestors did even though mine came from Scotland anyway you know, you've got to beg forgiveness for for White privilege and for just being who you are and and all that kind of stuff.

So you got to look back back back back back right off the cliff into the future that's that's what we are that's what we're facing and It's it's gonna be a challenge now, I totally spaced this yesterday and I I apologize for having done so but on Thursday and Friday of last week.

Hyper-Preterism Debate on Iron Sharpens Iron

Chris Arnzen The world famous host of Iron sharpens iron we can only hope to someday. Have the.

The.

Just the the acclaim in the broadcasting world that's iron sharpener sharpens iron has and of course the Perfect announcer voice of Chris Arnzen. Just you know, just we all look up to Chris in that way.

Just want to be like him someday.

I.

Can hear him laughing even now.

Anyway.

Chris worked for like I think he said once like a year to put together a debate now. What I heard at the very end of the debate is it's not over. They're gonna do a Third program at some point hopefully fairly soon Where audience questions can be handled because there wasn't time for audience questions in in what was done but Don Preston and mr. Frost Debated the subject of hyperpreterism and.

And.

Man there's there are there are so many questions that that encounter raised that were not answered. For me especially because you know, I'm familiar with the outlines of hyperpreterism of the two days.

The second to me was and just look up iron sharpens iron. Chris Arnzen Grabbed the archive of this because it is really really Well worth listening to the the encounter. The second day was most helpful for me.

Both days tended to get a little bogged down I thought in Some Less than helpful We tromping through some obscure passages, I mean When you sit back and listen to the second day that the fundamental point that I got from Preston's Presentation was that the primary context in which first Corinthians chapter 15 has to be interpreted as Hosea 13, and that's not the context of 1st Corinthians chapter 15 and so the actual meaning of Anastasis the actual issue that Paul is addressing with the Corinthians.

All that just sort of gets lost and you get this framework. This complex framework based upon time passages and things like that Is put together by Preston that then takes over everything. Thankfully in the process of having this discussion Frost who is a for who used to sort of be Preston's right-hand man.

They spoke at the same conferences that but he's come out of hyperpreterism. Thankfully he brought out The fact that once and and this is true from a number of different perspectives. I've seen this I've seen people fall into this stuff from a lot of different directions.

You get the idea that you have seen something that no one else has ever seen.

Because.

It seems like Preston did admit that pretty much the only people that have ever seen this has been he and his group and everybody else has been wrong from the start on this and Once you really convince yourself of that that that's.

Yeah, I'm the only one that's gotten this. Then to make it work to continue to make it work as it becomes questioned and cross-examined. Fundamental central doctrines get sacrificed and so. The idea of the resurrection body of Jesus becomes totally redefined in hyperpreterism in this form.

That's the other part. That's the other problem is this form of hyperpreterism. So I'm sure somebody else has a different form and takes a different, you know, you've got all these different perspectives.

It could be taken.

But.

Thankfully it came out. Preston did basically say that If I understood him correctly, he was saying that Jesus rose the self same body in which he died and He ascended in that body, but he no longer has that body.

If I was understanding where he was, he was making the assertion that there was a True physical resurrection of the body, but Jesus doesn't have that body any longer. He's put aside somehow. If you're familiar with Jehovah's Witnesses, they say the same thing.

Either his body was dissolved in the gases or it's on display as a memorial to y 'all to Jehovah's love somewhere in the universe or something like that, but.

But.

He is no longer the God-man even though Preston would say oh, yes he is. Because a man doesn't have to have a physical body so there is this whole a complete overthrow of what anastasis means. And the importance of physical resurrection.

Saying well, but obviously Jesus was still a man Before the physical resurrection while he was in the grave. He's still a man. Even though he went and proclaimed the spirits in prison so and so forth.

So but the point being that God made us to be a body soul unity. And that's why the resurrection is so important that it's an unnatural state to be disembodied. And that's why the resurrection is going to take place but at least that came out with a fair amount of clarity and So you could start seeing.

Just how many? Cardinal central aspects of the faith are Sacrificed to just maintain this one framework system.

And.

In the first Program it was brought up that you know from this perspective. We are in the eternal state. There is there is nothing this is just how it's gonna keep on going and going and going and going.

We're in the eternal state and you're just like oh great. That's that's that's a bad thing. What are all the ramifications that would have to come from that. There would there would be there would be a lot of them.

So it's. It's.

I.

I'm really thankful that it was done. I'm looking forward to the third program. It will help I think a lot of people could be very confused by it because It is just so far outside of what anybody is accustomed to that.

You know, I mean, I'm not saying don't go and listen to it. Yeah, go ahead and listen to it, but You might find it somewhat difficult to follow because it's All bets are off. Let's just put that way. The foundations are completely different and The debate was not designed to give you the background To really understand it.

It would almost be worth the effort to to have somebody do a program that would give you a A clear summary statement of what the issues are So that once the debate starts you're like, oh, okay. Well, that's why that guy is concerned about this or that or the other thing and it might be helpful along those lines but it was very very very interesting to me and so I wanted to make mention of it make reference to it and Go from there.