Matt Slick Bible study covenant and dispensationalism

Can you okay good.

It's on it's live live video.

Now.

This is a different setup.

What my wife's saying something?

No, what what?

My wife's over there right over there.

There's somebody else.

Okay, I'm just getting in trouble, you know making myself in what.

Okay, no sandwiches for me tonight.

All right.

All right, so have you noticed the format's a little bit different last week.

Well when I did the show here, we did it with a camera and a laptop about 12 feet away.

And now we're doing with my phone so we're just giving it a go to see how the sound goes and things like that and get some feedback and some stuff

and I can read the text in here off the phone.

It looks pretty good.

So what we're gonna do is pray we're gonna discuss the issue of it because you're an air -conditioning on even more

because you're hot.

No, it's it turn it on turn it on, you know, there's a lot of how hot in air especially hot air here.

That's what I'm talking.

That's because it's.

Yes.

Yes, we have air conditioning issues here people.

No, make it colder make it no make it warm, okay, so let's get going here.

We're gonna be discussing covenant and dispensationalism.

I'm most absolutely definitely a covenantalist not a dispensationalist.

We'll go through what different covenants there are and then I'm going to discuss dispensationalism and try and give

it a fair shake.

Okay.

So let's pray and I'll just jump right in.

All right.

Lord Jesus, thank you for today, and I thank you Lord for the technology.

Hopefully that's fixed and continue to work today.

Will you ask for your mercy or grace and as we go over the topics Lord just ask for?

The wisdom from my words and that I would represent both sides properly and that the

result would be that we would Grow closer to you and that you'd be glorified in our efforts.

So Lord Jesus, we give you thanks.

And we ask this in your precious name.

Amen.

All right so a covenant let's talk covenant the basics of what a covenant is a

Covenant is a pact or an agreement between two or more parties.

It's a contract.

It's an agreement.

There's promissory aspects to it conditional aspects to them there are

stipulations.

Rewards punishments.

There's all kinds of different covenants.

We're going to get into several of them tonight.

So one of the most common covenants that we are aware of is a marriage covenant and we got

a couple here who's married and There's married married married so

Married.

You're not married.

Okay.

Well if you're available anyway.

So a covenant is a pact or an agreement between two or more parties and covenants have signed.

So here's a covenant sign.

My wedding ring.

There's a covenant sign and That's how God works

biblically is he.

He establishes a covenant and that which is an abstraction and then what he does.

Sorry distracted by the cat and then what he does.

I see movements and then I start looking where movements are.

Yeah, and so where was I?

Define the covenant if I'm the covenant.

Signs rings so God work covenantally.

He develops covenants in in all kinds of ways you want to use this.

It's fine.

Okay.

All right.

Kind of help you out.

All right, we'll get we'll get into this.

So the word covenant in Latin is testamentum and so we had get the word test testament.

We get Old Testament and New Testament.

We have the Old Covenant the New Covenant.

Basically, the Old Covenant will be discussing how many there are with the very nature of the covenant is but the covenant

actually begins in The very mind in the heart of God you go to Hebrews 13 20.

It talks about the blood of the eternal covenant the eternal covenant.

Now, what is that covenant?

It doesn't exactly tell us what it is in the context.

But what we see from other areas of Scripture is that it appears to be.

This is what I hold to is that the father elected?

Chose we know over election and predestination too bad.

You weren't here last week day.

Election and predestination.

So we went over that last week, but God elects he chooses people in Christ Ephesians 1

for where and the the father elects picks chooses the

son is going to be the one who Redeems the elect and the Holy Spirit applies their redemptive work now.

There's more aspects in there.

But those are the three basics that we can kind of work with so we had the father Choosing the son redeeming

the chosen and the Holy Spirit applying the redemptive work to the chosen ones.

They believe.

So this eternal covenant was something that was established from forever ago

forever ago.

Because of the nature of the Trinitarian Communion God has always existed and his knowledge has always existed and he has always

known everything.

There's no place in time when his knowledge increases.

Sorry open theists, but that's just a biblical position.

You're you're wrong.

And so God has always known and so God has always covenanted in the eternal covenant to

elect redeem and apply the redemptive work of Christ and This is for the elect the

universe exists for the elect.

Now a lot of people don't think that but if you think about it The reason the universe is existing is so

that we could exist in it and there could be a redeemer.

So that we can be with God forever.

So God has drawn people out of eternity to have fellowship with for him with himself.

Forever.

He already has fellowship with either Trinitarian Communion the non elect Will

reap the benefits to some degree of the atoning sacrifice of Christ.

The reason they do is just an incidental.

The reason they do is because God for the sake of the elect does not destroy the tares.

So allow both the wheat and the tares.

Matthew 13 love both the wheat and the tares to grow together at the time of the Harvest.

I'll say to the Reapers first gather the tares to burn them and the wheat are gathered and put in the barn

so we know that the tares and the wheat are simultaneous but the instructions of the landowner are do not

tear up the Unbelievers, you might tear up the believers with them.

So the unbelievers their judgment is stayed is held back.

Because for the sake of the elect.

So this has happened all through history.

This is the covenant promise.

Well, the thing is that much of the aspect of the covenant is that the elect who are Chosen

from the foundation of the world Ephesians 1 for aren't manifested in real time.

All the time, but I mean by that didn't come out Right is a there might be someone who gets saved tomorrow who's been elect, but we don't

know that so they're not all manifesting that election right now.

And so what we're gonna find is that as time increases more and more people will discover who have been

born who have been Elected or granted belief Lipton's 129 granted repentance second to be 225, etc

all right, so Covenants have patterns and Would

back when I was in seminary we had Meredith Klein Come in and teach and Meredith

Klein was Impressive.

He was impressive.

He was going through his Bible turning pages like this and reading, you know reading this is English Bible just going through

when they go back to this he had these verses memorized.

He was just going except that he wasn't doing it in English he was doing it from Hebrew to English as fast

as we could talk and he was going back and forth in the Hebrew Bible and When I discovered that I was like,

okay, and then He taught himself some other languages like you go Riddick I don't know if those

are real when he knew but that kind of guy, you know He's the one who basically discovered what's called the

suzerain vassal treaty pattern of the third millennium BC third and fourth millennium BC and

suzerain vassal treaty pattern is this a suzerain is a big king of vassals a smaller King.

And so the suzerain would make a treaty with the vassal now.

There might be one suzerain and ten vassals and lesser Kings.

So you might have a kingdom one major King and you might have a geographical area for

example divided into four into a ten areas and there'll be a small a vassal a

king small the king leading each one of those groups and so what would happen is that the the

suzerain would make a treaty with the vassals and They would say well, this is who I am.

This is what I've done because a vast the suzerain would say my name is so -and -so I've done this I've delivered eight

you know one eight wars and provided this and that and you know did all this stuff, but you know and

Then he would say here's the stipulations that I'll provide Military protection for you

if you provide, you know 10 of your food production to our house then and we'll store

it and if anybody has any problems then we'll distribute it you know, it's just these kinds of things it was for the mutual benefit and

Then each party in the covenant Agreement would get a copy of the coven of the

government the document.

Why is this important?

Because when you look at the Ten Commandments and I've got no I said this so many times before.

The Ten Commandments are two copies of the same thing.

You see it all the time.

It's four and six and five and five forget that just toss that it's ten

and ten.

And the reason it is because it's a suzerain vassal treaty pattern found in the Ten Commandments.

Because it says Starts off.

I'm the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt out of the house of slavery.

This is who I am.

This is what I've done and it is my you know, my name is Lord Yahweh stipulations are

given you shall have no other gods before me.

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain and then there are punishments involved for breaking the Commandments.

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain for the land.

For the Lord will not leave him unpunished who takes his name in vain.

Honor your father and mother that your days may be prolonged so if you broke the the

Agreement those punishment if you kept the agreement.

There was a rewards the suzerain vassal treaty pattern.

This is what I'm absolutely convinced.

This is what it was because that was the time and the place when the Ten Commandments were written.

So, of course the come the covenant is between God and his people.

He gets a copy they get a copy ten and ten.

That's it ten and ten because it symbolizes that the people

had their copy.

And God had his copy there to eat not equal parties.

But dr. Sousa and vassal treaty pattern and so they had the copies.

That's what was going on.

Now, where were those Ten Commandments copies kept?

Are gonna covenant what was on top of the Ark of the Covenant the mercy seat with

the cherubim now so.

Then King David rose to his feet and said listen to me brethren and my people.

I Had intended to build a permanent home for the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord and for the footstool

of our God.

So I had made preparations to build it the Ark of the Covenant and the footstool.

It looks like the mercy seat is the footstool.

Because of what he says here.

This is first Chronicles 28 verse 2.

Now we don't know that for sure, but it certainly seems to imply that In

Isaiah 66 1 thus says the Lord heaven is my throne and earth is my footstool in

Excuse me.

Psalm 132 7 and 8.

Let us go into his dwelling place.

That's the tap tap vernacular temple.

Let us worship at his footstool.

Arise, oh Lord to your resting place you and the Ark of your strength.

So the footstool is More than one place related to the Ark the presence of the Ark so this is

why a lot of theologians really do believe that the These are the mercy seat or the Ark of the Covenant is the

footstool of God.

Not that the footstool is Something that is lowly because when a king would sit on his

throne he did and the throne was elevated.

Well, he didn't want his feet to dangle good.

It kind of just doesn't look distinguished.

So they would give a footstool and it became a symbol of Subjection that

you you know, my feet will be on you as my feet are on this the footstool, but it also is a

Representation of the place of the throne where God himself is sitting.

So the presence of God is in the Holy of Holies.

So there's a holy place in the Holy of Holies we should do a study on the Holy of Holies the holy place the temple tabernacle, but.

And so as the high priest would go into the holy place.

They were separating the holy place from the Holy of Holies was the veil.

You'd go around the veil and the holy place was the Ark of the Covenant.

With a mercy seat and in the Ark was the ten commandments, right?

Two tablet two tablets ten commandments the bud of the Aaron's rod and a jar of manna.

So we have the formation of life out of death.

We have the manna, which is the habit word out of heaven.

I'm skipping ahead what that basically is and the Ten Commandments is the law of God or reflection of the moral character of God.

So it symbolizes that the Commandments one copy is in the presence of man and another copies

in the presence of God.

That's where we're getting this Ten Commandments stuff.

So people say seminary and they call it cemetery.

I hate that when I do that some are bad, but I learned this in Seminary and

I've been so grateful.

Because that one thing opened up a lot of other stuff about covenant.

We're gonna get into some of this stuff of how God works and why he does this now.

God Institutes covenants he institutes covenants.

He created the marriage covenant.

He created the eternal covenant.

Well, I can't say he created it because if you really think about it, it always was that way.

So it couldn't come into existence, you know, we get to logical priority issues.

We're not gonna get out of all that.

All right.

So covenant is how God first decided to deal with man with mankind the eternal covenant.

He was 1320 and

The conditions of the eternal covenant.

I'm just gonna some stuff later.

Okay, I'm gonna get ahead.

There's a lot here.

There are two basic types of covenants conditional and unconditional.

Unconditional is where it doesn't matter what the responding party does or does not do.

So In a marriage covenant, it's it's kind of interesting is both conditional and unconditional.

Because you know, my wife's right there and it doesn't matter how nice she is or how not nice she is I'm to

love her on that's there's not conditioned on how she is and vice versa but on the other hand our covenant

is dissolved when one of us dies and.

So it's both conditional and unconditional.

So an unconditional covenant has aspects where God says I will never leave you or forsake you it's not

conditioned on our behavior.

He was ten five.

I think it is.

So he's promised to be with us and he will never leave us.

He'll never forsake us.

Period it's part of the eternal covenant, which is another reason eternal security is true.

Okay?

How many people are in the room?

Okay, so a conditional covenant.

It does depend upon the faithfulness of the both parties.

So example, you know as if when one of us dies then the covenants broken you know as

soon as one of us dies the other one's no longer married period single and

so.

There are various ones in the Old Testament.

Now.

You may be familiar with the one where I forget where it was.

Where God had an animal?

Dissected and.

Then the pillar of cloud went through between those two halves.

You know why that was.

Now there's shedding of blood which is interesting but he was saying this let it be done to me if I break the covenant.

Okay, the blood Signifies the ratification of a covenant you go to Hebrews 9 15 through 16.

For the ratification is when the death of the testator occurs and you also go to Hebrews 8 7

8 13.

I think it is our covenant is ratified without the shedding of blood.

There is no real covenant and In this sense what we're talking about here.

Let me tell you we can go over this and There's a lot more that we can get into there.

This is a deep deep topic.

So the question that becomes how many covenants are there?

I don't know.

You studied a lot of theology.

How many do you think there are?

At least five.

Anybody how many do you think there are?

That's a good question, I don't know.

Nick, how many do you think there are?

53 probably might be there might be that many in the Bible recorded.

But Major was at least five.

Some say There's three covenants some say there's two something there's only one.

The reason they do this is because of how you look at what a covenant is.

So for example, the eternal covenant is one covenant, but all other

covenants are the result of that one covenant.

So in that sense we'd say well There's really only one real covenant and the other ones manifest out of that.

Then there's a covenant of grace and the covenant of works.

We'll get into that well, then we consider two main covenants or We can

say inside the covenant of grace.

There's certain covenantal aspects like the baptismal covenant or the which enters you into that new covenant

and then the communion elements.

Which is the participation of the continuation of the covenant?

So how many covenants are there?

Yes.

That's a good question.

I lean towards one covenant.

But sometimes two.

Then go back to one and then I go wait a minute could be seven.

But no, I think it's one and so what I'm doing is just admitting.

It's not that precise and some very brilliant theologians have argued but as I always say

it always comes down to what your definitions are if you More precisely you define something than the better off you

are in.

Saying how many there are and so all our answers here are basically correct because we have

not Really defined real precisely what it really is in all kinds of

situations or to get it.

So the basic definition of a covenant is a pact or an agreement between two or more parties.

But it advanced that a little bit a pact or an agreement with stipulations.

Rewards and punishments generally, but not all have Punishments because if

it's unconditional see.

Well, then which covenant we can Definition we're gonna go with and this you can see why go away.

Okay, so if it's one covenant we defined it as unconditional.

Then there's only one.

If it's you define covenant with conditional aspects, then we could say there's more than one.

Okay.

All right.

So let's talk about the eternal covenant.

The father is all my notes.

Okay on just covenant.

The father required of the son that he should atone for the sins of those whom the father had given him first.

John 2 2 right.

John 6 39 and.

That he would do what Adam failed to do by keeping the law.

Adam failed to keep the law and Jesus did keep the law now.

How many Adams are there?

To the first Adam and the last Adam first one is 15 46.

I think it is the last Adam.

Jesus is called the last Adam now.

That's interesting because we've already talked about the issue of federal headship before federal headship is where the male

represents a descendants so in Christ.

All All live in.

I know in Adam all die in Christ all shall be made alive first Corinthians 15 22.

So in Adam in Adam is a sign of federal headship that everybody was in him.

Represented by him and then there's a group represented by Jesus.

We called in him.

Were you going outside?

Something I said.

My wife's going outside.

What is it?

What's wrong?

What what?

Oh, okay.

She goes man so.

What's gonna get wet.

What's gonna good what's gonna get wet.

The fire.

Okay, don't get the fire get wet.

I'm so asking for trouble.

What do you guys leave all right.

Now so oh that that's it's a distraction.

Okay.

We'll wait.

All right.

Okay, go ahead.

Right month spin open sin month.

But the Covenant sign right now Dave was not.

We'll get.

We'll get to that.

We're gonna get to the different covenants.

We're gonna get to that.

We'll talk about it the Noahic Covenant.

Okay, we'll do that because it There's no way a covenant month.

That's it.

I like that.

Oh.

Okay, I'm gonna get sidetracked.

That's good question.

So the requirements of the eternal covenant is that the word Would

become man that he'd place himself under the law Galatians 4 4 and that after

accomplishing forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

He'd apply that to the elect the Holy Spirit would be involved in there.

All right.

So this is the basic idea of that.

Then we're going to have manifestations of the covenant in different forms different times now.

We're gonna get to what's called the Adamic Covenant, which is also called the Covenant of works

the Covenant between God and Adam where Adam and Eve Was to maintain his right

position with God via works and obedience to God's command.

So he was to keep his position with God by his works.

Could he you know in a sense?

Yes in a sense.

No, if he'd have kept all the commandments and just done what he's supposed to do.

Like not eat don't one just don't eat that tree.

That's it.

Would he have continued to live forever if he had never eaten that tree?

Yeah.

Okay.

I don't know how long you guys would have been.

I'd have been up there.

What's that tree for?

You know?

And the covenant command was to multiply and subdue the earth.

Matthew Genesis 128 and The one the conditions was don't eat the tree the knowledge of good and evil

Genesis 2 27 and if you do you'll die stipulations, okay and.

But the word covenant is not used there at all.

It's not used there, but as we can see it is it's a covenant and the covenant sign is the tree.

Okay, it's what represents and.

Now We need to bring up the idea that in a lot of covenants, you can

negotiate the terms and that before you come to an agreement and.

So when I performed you guys marriage ceremony.

We met beforehand it went over the covenant documents and the covenant requirements and what these things met meant

and why it was so Serious and things like that and when we got married The

pastor gave us a copy of the covenant promises and

in there was a promise that the wife would obey her husband and.

And So I wish you'd kept it in but I took it out.

But anyway, so what I did was I asked him to to remove that and the reason

was what's that?

She's going.

Yes it was my idea and the reason was because I take I think I take it so

seriously my commitment to God and.

And my wife has a great commitment to the Lord as well.

And if she had made a promise to obey me, what if I said to do something wrong, right?

Whatever.

She didn't do it then.

She'd be in sin.

And so I.

That was a way of protecting, you know, I don't want that so we've negotiated the contract a little bit now.

I wish I'd have said some other stuff in there.

But hindsight what's that.

She's a good sandwich maker.

She's a good sandwich maker.

She's a good cook and I will probably put in her more smooching.

You know, there's some smooching stuff is like smooches, you know on morning smooch.

Oh, she's going like this now.

She's hiding herself, but I put the camera around and show maybe I should do that here.

Yes, I should do this.

Yeah.

There it is.

There she is.

Say hi, hon.

There she is.

Okay.

So there she is.

Okay, I had to show everybody.

It's my wife.

All right.

He's my favorite wife also.

All right now.

She's the only one I got that's right.

So the covenant sign was a tree of life and in it we see that Adam represented all people.

Now this is I'm going to say something here that I think is really important to understand.

The covenant obligation was to Adam.

You are to multiply you're to fulfill the requirement of subduing the earth.

Now that subduing of the earth is very important.

It is to be done in a godly way under the guidance of God.

It's not being done today very much at all plastics trash

things all over the place.

Raping and pillaging the land.

It's like when in our country here when the Buffalo were basically annihilated they shoot him for fun.

You know, this is ungodliness.

Now here's a question.

Does this covenant requirement?

Does it?

Does it include?

Everybody in Adam, so does it include the unbelievers as well as the believers as

an obligation to fulfill this covenant?

Don't think about.

Now I'll give you some more information in Adam.

I'll die.

Right first goodness 1522.

Romans 5 18 says through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men.

So did Adam represent everybody?

Yes, he did.

So Does the obligation For of

the Adamic responsibility is it passed down to the progeny to the descendants?

Yes.

So the unbelievers have the moral obligation to treat the earth.

Well.

It's just one of the aspects of the covenant.

There's more because of faithfulness.

There's you know, there's the issue of one husband one man one woman's that are breaking that in pride

month and Divorce is so readily available.

They're breaking the covenant and they are under the responsibility of The Adamic Covenant now they may say

well, we don't like that and I've had atheists they don't like that kind of stuff and I just say so.

Okay, you don't like it.

I don't like it when I stub my toe.

It's just a reality.

Well, I don't accept it.

Well, you don't have to accept it.

You're gonna face God on the day of judgment.

I don't believe in God you will when you face him.

You know, I just keep talking like that.

It's all true and I say to say to them a theological description for your

position is for you is your host.

And All right.

So the covenant of grace or the covenant of redemption the covenant between God and the elect is

Based entirely on God's grace and not man's effort or will now that's important.

Some people would say that the covenant of grace is dependent upon our ability to keep that covenant in order to stay saved

to that.

I say malarkey

no, if our Covenant faithfulness is what was required for us to maintain

our salvation.

It's going to be gone it's gonna be gone very quickly very quickly.

Okay, especially for Dave because Dave would be gone.

He'd be over and he'd.

He'd when Dave you missed your opportunity.

He said when you blew it you'd come over and find me to go.

Oh, you were already here Matt.

Yeah, that's true.

So it's between the the Lord God and the elect.

Now a lot of people don't like the idea of God only dying for the elect.

But that's what Colossians 2 14 says and Jesus says he leaves it lays his life down for the sheep and John

10 It says you're not my sheep.

If you pay for its debt the debt doesn't exist anymore.

He paid for a sin debt.

So this is an unconditional.

It's conditional but it's unconditional.

It's conditioned on the work of Christ not on our faithfulness.

But so you can see it's kind of conditional non -conditional as far as us goes.

It's not conditioned because Jesus says, you know, John 10 27 28 my sheep hear my voice.

I give eternal life to them and they shall never perish.

Notice he says I give eternal life to them and they shall never perish in John 3 16.

It says God's love the world to give his only begotten Son that whoever would believe in him would have.

What have everlasting life never perish.

Or it says never perish but have everlasting life forget which order is now but?

Never eternal life and never perishing are coupled.

This is because all that the father is given to the son.

The son will not lose.

John 6 37 through 40.

This is because in the eternal covenant the father gave the elect to the son and the son came to redeem them and

Jesus Can't fail to fulfill the covenant requirements in the inter -trinitarian communion.

Which ultimately means that when people say you can lose your salvation.

They're saying that Jesus failed to keep the covenant bounds.

Which would men mean that he sinned furthermore.

It would mean that those who teach you could lose your salvation.

You got to keep it by how good you are.

No, you don't you keep it by by believing.

Well, do you choose to believe?

Yes.

Well, then take credit for your own believing and I've asked people that you take credit for your own believing.

Of course I do.

I don't even take credit for my own believing.

There's nothing good in me.

Jesus is the one who lives in me.

He's the one who awakened my heart my mind.

He's when he granted that I believe Philippians 129.

That's it.

So I believe because of what God has done for me and that's it.

So I am eternally secure in Christ.

Can I go out and sin all I want?

Yes, I can.

But I'm regenerate.

John 3 3 through 5 2nd Corinthians 5 17 5 17

5 7 5 21 were made new creatures in Christ.

Take me to 517 made new creatures.

So I'm changed.

I don't want to go out and and sin.

I war against all this because The regenerative work of God is concomitant with salvation.

Which then means that we are saved we're in the camp of Christ and we're gonna war against our sin.

That's the manifestation of redemptive work of God in us because of the covenant of grace where he's made

up between the us and the elect.

I mean God in the elect and The conditions of the salvation are faith in Christ.

Period.

That's it.

There's no condition in which you lose your salvation.

Faith in Christ Romans 5 1 having therefore been justified by faith.

And who's the mediator of the New Covenant?

Barely hear that word Christ very good.

I Got to work on them.

I get it.

Okay, and the Covenant sign of the New Covenant is

The cross Communion which represents the cross.

And I think baptism is the means by which we entered into that covenant the way the

circumcised were entered into the Abrahamic Covenant and once you're in the Covenant you had certain signs you were to

participate inside of that Covenant one of them was Participating the Passover.

Well, it's a lot.

My position is that the covenant about the sign of baptism it enters you into a covenant relationship, which

why it could be for children and You participate in the covenant boundaries later on

you get older and stuff like that.

That's been good expand that more some other time.

All right, the eternal covenant is the model for the covenant of grace.

If there was no eternal covenant between the father and the son there could be no covenant of grace between God and man.

And the elect all right.

So this is why when I study this I go yeah, there's really one main covenant the covenant of

the eternal covenant and That's where it all began.

But some definitions of those covenants underneath it don't exactly fit each other.

So the differentiation but they're there under the umbrella of the big one.

So I hold to the umbrella idea of the covenant of the eternal covenant and then I kind of

lean towards covenant of grace a covenant of works to covenants and then you could

get into variables in there, but then if you just go to like we already had the Adamic Covenant and we've already

talked about the Eternal Covenant, that's two and now we've talked about

The covenant of grace, which is the covenant with the elect.

There's three the covenant the Adamic Covenant already got that.

That's we have three so far.

Let's get into the covenant of Noah.

The Noahic Covenant.

It was a promise of God to Noah to never again destroy the world with water.

With water will he destroy the world again?

Yes, he will second Peter three nine and ten, but he's not gonna do it with water and He talks

about this covenant in Genesis nine

so the covenant sign.

Why I didn't ask you what's the sign of the eternal covenant cross?

Its future when it was ratified.

Okay, so The covenant sign of Noah was the rainbow and the

rainbows interesting.

It's formed out of water.

Reflection of light and water light and water light, you know, God is light through that water.

It's interesting stuff, but don't take it too far.

So what we have now is We have unbelievers

who mock The truth of God.

They use the rainbow flag as a sign of pride and

Yet It ultimately is a sign of their own destruction.

If we were to take time out and take a tangent where we went to Hebrews Romans 1 starting at verse 18 the

wrath of God is being revealed against all ungodliness of heaven.

In verse 26 to 28 they exchanged the The function of the woman for the function of the

man and you know, it talks about this.

I don't have it memorized and it clearly talks about homosexuality and the perversion associated with that.

So homosexuality is a perversion it is unrighteous it is aberrant sexual

behavior.

It is a sin and they need to repent of it.

It doesn't mean we hate them.

It doesn't mean that we want to damage them or hurt them, but it does mean that they need to repent of this great sin.

It's one of the few sins in the scriptures.

I think it's only what I'm even aware of where when you commit it Not just once but you're in it.

God gives you over to it and that's the judgment.

That is the judgment.

He gives you over to the depravity of your heart in your mind to a reprobate mind.

He gives it.

Oh gives you over to it.

So they believe the lie and then the last verse says they go promoting that lie.

So now what we have in the world is a false governmental and social system that

is Has done what Isaiah 520 warns us about beware of those who say good is evil and

evil is good.

This is exactly what's happened.

And our country now as an official stat state status of the government

is to promote homosexuality and we know it because when Obama was in hit a rainbow flag on

the White House the rainbow colors and which I considered an abomination and.

And If you stood against that you're now the one who's evil.

You're the one who's the bigot.

You're the one who's in Incompetent morally you're the one who's got the

problem when this shift occurs then The wicked will

persecute the righteous.

Now my opinion I believe our country is already lost.

I Don't see it as recovering.

I see it falling apart.

I don't know what's going to happen.

I think it's gonna be civil war.

I think if that doesn't happen then at the very least the very least we're gonna have a

Semi -marxist regime or socialist thing.

It's gonna it's gonna go for the next few years.

It's gonna get worse and worse for the Christians will be persecuted because they're standing up for righteousness.

Now what I believe will it's my opinion.

Okay, I believe that the church will become persecuted and a lot of churches are going to shut down they're gonna shut down

all over the place and Then we're gonna start meeting an underground systems and ways

and we've already started working on some stuff about this early stages, but

This is when the Christian Church is going to grow.

So it's going to be purified because the Christian Church at least here in America had become lax.

Because it is not doing what's supposed to be doing is being salt and being light.

It has Very clearly compromised the truth.

All you gotta do is turn on Sunday Sunday morning preachers.

I want to get I want to get a an old TV several

of them and And and hook up cable to each one on Sunday mornings

outside in a field so that I can take my a K and

And shoot that one while that guy's talking and then

turn another channel another one and get another preacher saying stupid stuff like Yes, the keychain

of the ermine from them and you get the twelve stones and this will help protect you.

We're the next one because this is the kind of stupidity that is occurring

in the church today absolute acid entity and The Christian Church is so

anemic and so weak it doesn't even know what to do now.

God has.

Some might say curse to me my wife might say that.

Some might say other things the opposite end, but with this desire to know the truth of God's Word I got stories I could tell you

about the introduction of this how this began years and years ago.

Was with a neek it's interesting story.

But nevertheless, I don't really talk about it.

But the thing is I understand theology.

I understand this.

I don't say I understand everything and I'm teaching you guys, right?

And I'm not.

I'm no better than you.

Okay, don't okay, but you've learned a lot, right?

You've been exposed to a lot of stuff and you're going man.

I didn't even know this stuff.

I guess people call me up on the radio.

I had no idea about this stuff.

I get emails I didn't even know that this stuff in the Bible was there when I go to church I don't hear any of this stuff.

I get that a lot.

Well, it's because the preachers are teaching biblical theology and what they're doing is five minutes of introduction five

minutes of a joke or they're gonna do a Story to warm you up and then you know, so

Joe and I went to a church months ago.

Well, it took seven minutes for that guy to get to the Bible the Scripture.

Wow seven minutes what I went to another church by myself a couple years ago checking it out.

Just checking stuff out and went to guy was gonna preach on Colossians 3 1 through 5 one of my

favorite areas of Scripture.

There's so much there.

I'm like, yes.

Yes, this is gonna be good.

I end up walking out halfway through the sermon.

You know, I'm done.

Okay, why because it was basically low -level

stuff and I couldn't take it because it was so vacuous and just

Nicey YC and that's it.

There was so much there.

Why is it there for us to learn?

See that Bible Old Covenant New Covenant is there for the elect to learn from.

To study now not everybody has the ability to study like I do, you know full -time.

Okay, but I get the privilege of doing that and saying this what I've learned.

That's what I've learned.

That's what I've learned and it's you know privilege.

Okay, praise God.

Well, we are obligated as Christians to study.

And if we'd have been doing our job as Christians all of us not just us in this room.

But you know all of us we wouldn't have pride month where the

opposite of godliness is paraded as good and If you

disagree, you're gonna be punished and this is what's happening.

Now.

I personally believe as an example.

We'll get some more covenant stuff if you go into Google and type in what is the Trinity.

Type in what is the Trinity?

Karm comes up on a third page.

Maybe seventh way down almost on the fourth page go to duck duck go.

I think it's number one or two.

Yahoo, it's number one or two being is number one or two.

Excited for a couple ads.

I don't count those.

And I did some other search engines lesser known ones, but one or two one two or three it's right

there.

Now I say and karm says homosexuality is a sin and I believe that Google is punishing

Karm and other Christian sites who say this is the truth.

I believe it's happening and I've got records going back.

Ten years on a daily basis.

Maybe it's ten years eight years daily basis and I've got it all graphed out and all this stuff.

Okay, it's teach Excel so I know how to do all this stuff and do all this stuff and you can see it going down down down down

down over the years and others other ministries this is happening to so.

Because you're gonna set something about the covenants.

So if my wife and I aren't getting along and Either one of us or

both of us decides to honor our covenant.

By loving each other not based on conditions of if I you know She's being nice or I'm not being nice or whatever it is

and we do what's right before God.

He blesses the covenant keepers.

Because that's what he wants.

This is what I want you to do.

I'll bless you in this if the Christians start keeping the covenant requirements that

God has given us in the New Testament.

To love God love our neighbor speak the truth honor mom and dad don't steal be

faithful in your marriage.

Evangelize preach that gospel.

They start doing these things.

Then God will reward the covenant workers.

When I say this, I'm not saying we do this to get a reward.

That's not what I'm saying.

There's a blessing.

That's upon the covenant.

Obedient people we are a covenant people of God.

You don't hear this kind of theology talked about from the pulpit.

But we are a covenant people the eternal covenant covenant of grace covenant of works.

Covenant of the Adamic Covenant the Noahic Covenant the New Covenant.

We are covenant people.

What would happen if we were to start saying let's get the covenant aspects listed out.

I could do that for you guys for another study if you want and we start seeing how can we do this?

It doesn't mean we there's one two, three, four, five six, seven eight nine ten ten of us here.

One two, three, four, five six, seven eight nine nine of us here.

Does it mean that each one of us here has to perform all the covenant requirements?

So You know.

It might be to you know, part of the covenant might be teach so I teach someone might be to fill the earth.

Well need a mom for that, you know different people have different covenant aspects of requirements.

But as a church as a whole if we start being taught theologically and covenantally what's going on.

Then the people become more covenantally minded but because we're not doing it the persecutions coming God's gonna clean

the church out from all the dross and all the crap and the L socks.

That are in the church L socks lying sacks of crap.

People who are L socks in the church.

That's right.

There's my spiritual Tourette's is bubbling.

I Want to start saying things, you know.

That's a good list, you know just oh, oh.

Okay now so let's get into the Abrahamic Covenant.

God promised a land and descendants to Abraham who was commanded to keep the covenant.

This is Genesis 17 9 and he was given circumcision as a covenant sign

circumcision shedding of blood male representation.

Now it says in Genesis 12 3 in you all the nations shall be blessed and

the one of the covenant things God would do to fulfill that was to give him land because you had to have

land to have babies on and have crops on and cattle and.

So there's a sign of that covenant and that that's the covenant that has bloodshed in it.

So ultimately that bloodshed.

Points in the future to the work of Christ Who died on the cross the shedding of the blood

he was male and the males are the ones who are circumcised.

The females are counted in the males.

It's not an issue of superiority.

It's an issue of position because for example the father and the son

are equal yet Jesus is in a lesser position, but he's God in flesh and

He voluntarily did this so that's another thing about when I do I ever teach on the on marriage what marriage really is a theology

of marriage now.

So in this Abrahamic Covenant.

It's a future covenant.

In that in you all the nations shall be blessed and that's quoted by Paul in Galatians 3

8 and he calls it the gospel.

So the Abrahamic Covenant is still in effect and notice what the sign of the covenant was the shedding of blood.

Which is ratified with Christ in the shedding of blood.

So I could see the relationships there.

Let's get on to the covenant of Moses and the giving of the law.

The nation of Israel was constituted a holy nation and I've already gone through the tablets and use the

issue.

To show how God works covenantally and to show that each person gets a copy of the covenant in this written form

and so Excuse me so Moses had wrote down

everything that Lord had said he got up early the next morning and built an altar at the foot of the Mountain and set up twelve stone pillars.

Representing the twelve tribes of Israel and he sent young Israelite men.

They offered burnt offerings and sacrifice young bulls as fellowship offerings to the Lord.

Moses took half of the blood and put it in the bowls and the other half he sprinkled on the altar and notice

the sprinkling of the altar the thing sanctified is sprinkled upon.

Okay, that's just a point that as you pay attention to this kind of stuff We'll find

out that the the object is anointed by God.

You have an anointing that you have received first.

John 2 27 talks about this and in Joel 2 28 and 29 I

think it's 20 29.

It says the Holy Spirit will be poured forth and that's prophesied it that is fulfilled in

Acts 2 17 and 18 the pouring forth of the Holy Spirit.

Coming upon the people they're anointed by the element coming upon either by pouring by sprinkling

on.

This is the biblical pattern the biblical pattern and This is

out of the covenant aspect.

So it says moat and this is out of I'm reading out of Exodus 24 verse 8 Moses Then took blood sprinkled it on

the people and said this is the blood of the covenant that I the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.

Now there's another aspect the covenant documents the covenant sign and then also the blood.

The blood and the word go together the word

Jesus became flesh.

To die to shed his blood.

The truth of who God is on the way the truth and the life the truth is blood

must be shed to redeem.

Okay.

All right, and the covenant was to restrain Israel from sinning.

Let's go to the Davidic Covenant.

God gave a promise to David that his descendants should have an everlasting kingdom and be known as his sons.

You said this is a Psalm 89 verses 3 and 4.

You said I have made a covenant with my chosen one.

I have sworn to David my servant I will establish your line forever and make your throne firm throughout all

generations.

It was through the descendants of David that Jesus was born.

So this is a prophetic covenant and the covenant sign will be fulfilled when the covenant was fulfilled.

Later on with Christ shedding his blood.

But some covenant signs are given Before the covenant and some

after that in the garden of Adam and Eve the covenants are the trees right there before and At

the end of a wedding you may know, you know put the ring on and we did that right?

And so the covenant signs there traditionally is after or during whatever but you had different things different signs.

All right a New covenant,

okay the new covenant is

After the time of Christ there's some stuff here worth getting into.

God says there become a time when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel in the house of Judah.

This is Jeremiah 31 31.

I Haven't had time recently.

We're doing so much work on on the Karma schools.

We're actually actually see that I had a tunnel we're gonna be done with all the majors upgrades and everything in about four to

four months.

Everything and then I can start doing other stuff.

Like this I heard his new word vacation.

And I got to look it up people.

Some people have said I need that but I gotta look it up.

But I don't have time right now so The new covenant now, he says I'll make it.

I make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the nation of Judah now that's for the national

Israel and Ultimately is

fulfilled in Christ and he gave us this is a sign of the new covenant.

And I'm just gonna say that I'm a little confused Lately on this.

I just haven't solved it yet.

I haven't really got into really study it the new covenant is spoken of to that nation of Israel.

Are we then included in the new covenant?

That's the question and well, yeah, we are.

I'm trying to find the scriptures that declare it and I found some and So this is

this will come up later we talk about dispensationalism.

Like a progressive dispensational view where the house of Israel and The church are

kind of mixed.

It seems to be that kind of a thing in this context and

Stuff.

There's just a lot.

There's just a lot and I'm I am in no way an expert on this.

There are experts or people who've been studying this for 20 years.

They love covenant.

Anyway, I just said if I said to them come in and teach I'd say folks four weeks at least.

Four weeks, it's gonna take that much.

There's just so much to it nevertheless, so The new covenant I

got to solve this just a question I have when I answer it we are all obviously included but when

I look at the scriptures as in reference of the house of Israel and Yet there's some scripture

to talk about anyone and so we'll get into that another time.

I just haven't solved it.

I don't want to raise too many questions yet on that.

Now let's talk about the covenant of works in the covenant of grace I'm going to differentiate between them compare them because it

does seem like there's those two covenants at the very least.

The covenant of works God is the creator and Lord a stat and the established because of his love

and his benevolence and In the covenant of grace God is the Redeemer and Father established because of his mercy.

So the covenant of works To Adam is I love you.

This is what you can do.

You can stay in you know the covenant.

You'll be fine.

If you just do this, it's a loving thing.

The covenant of grace is you're gonna be all messed up and I'm going to show you mercy and grace.

Okay.

In the covenant of works Man Appears as God's creature.

Rightly related to God in the covenant of grace man appears as a sinner who has perverted his ways.

It could only appear in union with Christ and grace so before the fall and the

covenant of works Adam was able to keep stuff together and Do stuff because he was already in a right

relationship with God didn't need a mediator.

But we could say that the mediator the Adamic Covenant was Christ.

Because we could say that because Jesus the pre -incarnate Christ was the one walking in the garden.

Right.

We could say that I think Nick turned to boys getting hot in here.

Don't you think?

What.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's it's like 71 degrees on the thing.

Okay, so.

So I brought this up a mediator there is no mediator in the Adamic Covenant but

It was a pre -incarnate Christ is walking with him who gave him this stuff he could say that as the mediator.

But really technically was no mediator because it wasn't necessary.

Well, we haven't we have a mediators that go between between two parties.

Usually because there's a problem but it was no problem then so that's debatable on the issue of the mediatorship in the

covenant of works.

Righteousness was based upon man's obedience and the covenant of grace righteousness is based upon

Christ's obedience.

Covenant of works you can stay alive by keeping the law and in the covenant of grace.

You stay alive by being with Christ.

Covenant of works.

It's partly known in nature.

Because we are aware of certain things about the created order.

Since the law of God written on man's heart.

But a new covenant Aspect the covenant of grace is only revealed in the scriptures.

So the covenant with Adam.

Take care of the earth and don't eat of the tree.

You'll be fine.

Is not a covenant of grace that has to be by revelation.

The card of grace is you've sinned you're going to hell.

There's a Redeemer.

He's gonna bear your sins die on the cross rise from the dead and then you'll be saved

by faith.

That's not in the covenant of works.

So it's not known in the covenant of works.

Okay.

Okay, and then the covenant of works God is the first of the the

initiator of the contract.

He's the initiates basically all of them anyway.

All right.

So a two main covenants the parties

involved in the eternal covenant is the Trinity.

The party involved parties involved in the covenant of grace is God and man, but so

God and us the promise in the eternal covenant.

Promissory things.

Prepare a son for a body with a body and I've got all those scripture references here.

Give the son the spirit without measure always support and comfort the son.

Deliver the son from the power of death.

Bring to the son all whom the father had given to him.

Give the son a number of redeemed that no one could number.

This is the covenant promises in the eternal covenant and the covenant of grace eternal life for mankind.

And the promise is restoration of fellowship with God based upon the work

of Christ the condition in the eternal covenant.

Both of them eternal covenant and the covenant of grace rest in Christ.

Because the eternal covenant is made possible only through the eternal sonship of Christ.

Who would become one of us in order for the eternal covenant to to exist and the covenant of grace the same thing?

He has to become the one by whom the grace is manifested so that we can be redeemed.

So the covenant required and you can really kind of say both

Categories was to assume human nature made under the law and to bear our sins.

All right.

The mediator of the covenant new covenant scores of Jesus and Let's see.

So let's summarize some of these covenant aspects here.

You have we've gone over the Adamic Noahic Abrahamic a cineatic that mosaic.

It was all called cineatic Sinai Davidic and the New Covenant in the Adamic Covenant God and

Part God and man are the ones involved in the way of covenant.

It's God and Noah and if I proxy his descendants the Abrahamic Covenant, it's God and

Abraham with his descendants with the cineatic Moses David

and the Israelites at Mount Sinai Davidic is God and David and the New Covenant is a god in the

elect.

I Had this nice chart I did years ago on this and There's

promises.

There's conditions.

There's signs and seals.

Let's go to the signs and seals.

The Adamic Covenant the sign of the seal was the tree the tree and no Noah's time.

It was the rainbow in Abraham with the Abrahamic Covenant.

The circumcision was the sign.

And Cineatic it was the tablets which represented the covenant and the covenants seal was the

setting of the blood.

X is 24.

As he sprinkled on the people the Davidic Covenant was none didn't have one because it was to be

fulfilled in Christ.

And the New Covenant is the blood of Christ.

As a baptism is a sign to get in and the Lord's Supper is the participant participatory covenant sign.

All right.

That is a an intro.

Entry level entry level into covenant.

That is really an entry level there are books like this on

covenant and They just go on and on and then you get a second book on covenant and you go.

Well half of this belongs with that other half and you know, it goes on and on and on but

covenant is important.

I believe that if we understand covenant.

And one of the things I didn't bring up in covenant why covenant is so important is because

It's based on one's word.

What what somebody says?

That's it.

The eternal covenant is promissory.

You commit yourself by your verbal.

Affirmation marriage covenants a good example.

I verbally committed myself before God before people and before my wife To to be

married to her

and I just forgot my point dang.

I hate that brains fried.

What I just say I brought that up for a reason doesn't matter.

Word, thank you very much because God What he says

occurs and speech is a like an attribute of his essence.

So he commits himself.

Verbally, I'm gonna say verbally in the inner training.

She enters reader Trinitarian communion because I don't know how they communicated but there was a

communication going on and so they committed.

And we will just use the analogy verbally by their word or expression to commit.

This is what marriage is.

This is what a lot of things are we are committing.

We write down our commitments on paper.

It's by verbal thing.

We are admitting.

So what God has done is Committed himself by his own word to be

faithful to us and to never lose any.

We are secure in Christ.

God doesn't make any mistakes, even though some people think we can lose our salvation.

It's up to you and your goodness.

Good luck with that.

Good luck with that.

So that's one of the aspects of the covenant now.

We're gonna get in dispensationalism a little bit, but I want to talk about the aspect of covenant.

So I can do it today just to remind myself what I forgot but the word covenant occurs

like 70 80 90 times and they in the Bible the word dispensation

doesn't.

But I think the King James has a word dispensation in it the way they translate it into the English.

In the Greek it comes from the word.

Oh, you're gonna Mia economy and household relationship and.

So It just what dispensation is is Generally a time period that God

will work within that He does things differently here versus the next period of time versus the next period of

time.

Now there is a sense in which some dispensational ideas can blend over with covenant and

vice -versa.

Someone do know.

Get a little more covenant.

I mean with a dispensation.

Now just because the word covenant occurs tens of times and

Dispensation virtually does not does not mean that one is superior to the other one is right one is wrong.

We don't make a doctrine out of how many times a word appears.

Okay, it's what is said because it could say Theoretically, you could say covenant appears, you know 50

times.

That's why it's true.

But it could be what if I said every single time it appears it's it's condemning it, you know.

So context is always a thing.

So Dispensationalism is the theological view that God works

Through Time in different periods in different ways the most

common number of covenants is seven and there's worded slightly

different but innocence.

Which is the creation of Adam to the fall that's the dispensation of innocence they were innocent

Conscience that is from the fall to Noah's Flood.

And Some other let's see.

I got another where they word that or did I delete that when I?

Let's say yes Conscience that's from Genesis 3 to Genesis 8 actually

I'm not sure why they get that but they become aware of what's right and wrong the law is not given yet and then

Genesis 9 to 11 is that is civil government or human government as another

Commentator put it and then you have the dispensation of the promise.

It's promissory.

God's going to do this.

He's going to do that from Abraham to Moses and the giving of the law and then the

dispensation of the law now God works with us through the law and That's Exodus 20 through

Acts 2 verse 4.

I just don't buy this.

Sorry.

I don't and The covenant of grace that's from the time of the

cross to the millennial reign of Christ and then the Millennial Kingdom a

literal thousand -year reign.

Dispensationalists are premillennialists.

Dispensationalists are premillennialists if there's any exception so that I don't know of them.

Maybe it could happen, but it's like 99 .9 of Dispies are

premillennialists all the way and.

And I have some friends who are Dispies.

Andrew Rappaport who I mock occasionally he mocks me too and we're friends.

He's a he's a dispensationalist and he's premillennial and when I show him stuff for on mill

he just won't accept it and Anyway.

Love you, Andrew.

But The dispensationalists in my opinion what they're doing is looking at the scriptures.

They're not being malicious they're not being sinful, but they're looking at the Word of God and They're saying

look there's got to be seven dispensations because seven's a special number.

So let's make it fit.

Let's make this work.

That's what I think they're doing.

I Don't know if you've heard of the covenant because God works covenantally that is obvious.

It's promissory upon his word now for example.

They're gonna say that the covenant of grace is for the time of the cross to the to the time of the millennial reign.

Well, that's not true.

Covenant of grace is from Adam on at the very least if not even before that.

It comes up to what are we defining as grace the unmerited kindness in favor of God, then it was bestowed to Adam.

It was bestowed to Cain.

It was well, no, no grace has to mean from the time of the cross, right?

You know, that's the that's what it really occurred.

Well, that's not exactly true.

And it so I have problems with dispensationalism because of this kind of a thing now they're gonna they're not gonna say though

There's no grace of God in the Old Testament.

That God was gracious, you know, they'll say that.

And I'll say yeah, he works covenantally but they just Bunch everything into

basically seven sometimes five sometimes four sometimes three covenants.

These so there are some essential aspects of dispensate of yet dispensationalism a

Distinction between Israel and the church and I basically I agree with that.

I'm a covenant list.

So I agree.

There's a distinction between Israel in the church, but I also believe that there's a blending of Israel in the church.

Okay Jesus is the blending.

That's where that's right here.

That's in the gospel.

Yeah, and Yeah, okay another one here

is they I'd love this one.

They say we hold to a literal interpretation of the scripture.

I've had people say to me you're not millennialist.

Yeah, well, we hold to a literal interpretation.

I say really that's sort of why that's why I'm an on millennialist.

And they say no you're figurative.

I said no I'm not and they say is a thousand years literal or figurative.

I say well, it's figurative.

They say see I go.

Well, wait a minute.

Let's go to just Revelation 20.

You know and I saw an angel come down out of heaven with you know, we had a literal Oh, that's literal see with a key in his hand

and a chain in his hand.

We've got literal or figurative.

It's a literal representation of something figurative.

Come on, and this is what I get.

Okay, and so I go.

The literal chain sure it was literal but it really wasn't a literal chain was a representation

so When I show them literal things about other aspects like Satan being bound in

Matthew 12 22 to 32.

Because Jesus is casting out demons right casting out demons and He says in

order to do this the strong man's got to be first be bound.

So I take it literally he's bound.

That's why I'm almost I'm else it supports it.

Well, no, it doesn't mean he's literally figured.

You know.

So we get into this stuff and number three the glory of God is the underlying purpose of God in history.

I have no problem with that one the underlying purpose of God the glory of God.

I'd like that.

Okay, another view is essentials.

Different senses of terms like Jews and the seed of Abraham different they mean different things.

We're not getting into all this.

This is a whole course work.

We do a whole course on this Hermeneutic in which the New Testament reaffirms and does not reinterpret the Old

Testament.

No, I disagree with that.

It is the New Testament that interprets the old whenever the New Testament quote something that this is a fulfillment now, you know

what this is.

Unconditional promises to national Israel and the Old Testament must be fulfilled with natural Israel national.

I kind of agree with that myself.

That's just me.

A distinctive future of Israel.

I believe that you go to Romans 11 26 for that the church as a distinctive organism.

I have no problem with that either.

Number six a philosophy of history in which the History is gradual is the gradual

implementation of working of the kingdom of God.

I don't have a problem with that either and What they'll often

do is talk about the the age of the Gentiles or the time of the Gentiles.

Then to what Jesus said in Luke 21 24 they will fall by the edge of the sword and

will lead be led captive Into all the nations and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until

the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

What is the time of the Gentiles that's another study.

They like I said, they'll they say that the church began in the book of Acts.

So let's just stop here for a minute and just talk about this a little bit.

It all depends on definitions.

So what are some definitions of the church.

The elect the called -out ones.

Okay.

Well, if that's the case then the church began in the mind of God in the eternal covenant and

Adam who had his was covered with the blood of you know Animal skins when pre -incarnate Christ we could say he's part of

the church because he was redeemed.

He was covered by the sacrificial work of pre -incarnate Christ.

Okay.

But another definition of the church could be that thing that began when the Holy Spirit anointed them

after After the fulfillment of the Holy Spirit's work and after Christ was crucified.

Is that a legitimate definition?

Yeah.

Legitimate because there's a lot of evidence that that New Testament Church began

in the New Testament.

That's why they call it the New Testament Church and that makes sense.

Because it's promised in the old and fulfilled in the new so if we were to use that definition.

Then the disputes have got it, right?

If we say covenantal Church that we could say well, we recognize that there was a definite

beginning of the formal visible church on earth in that ecclesiastical sense in acts

2.

But we also know that the elect the called ones who are part of the church, which is the chosen the invisible

church.

Began thousands of years ago and that's legitimate to which one's the right one.

That's a good question.

Addisbe is going to say well obviously acts 2 and a covenantalist would lean towards The

older aspect of the Old Testament and there's strengths and weaknesses for both sides.

There are strengths and weaknesses for both sides just so you know, this is not just a Matt can settle it in 20.

You know 20 sentences thing.

It's not like that.

There are good arguments and good issues for both sides.

There really are just trying to be fair, but I'm a covenantalist and I'm always going to be one.

And they're pre -millennial and they're mostly pre -trib rapture.

Mostly pre -trib rapture, which I love to to poke at poke it with little things.

That's the American way to poke.

To be pre -trib rapture.

Which reminds me the reason the dispensationalist view in my opinion became so dominant was because it was

started by Darby in the 1800s and then it was written into the Schofield

reference Bible, which the one disseminated as a study Bible and the people just started buying into it and

Personally, I believe this is gonna offend some people.

I believe that the more theologically astute you are.

The more reformed you're gonna be in covenant.

Oh, you're gonna be that's just my opinion.

That's what I believe.

I do I believe that and people are right now, you know him and in hauling and and

doing the equivalent of the reformed but shuffle and The Armenian but shuffle see the

reformed by shuffle goes like this, but there are many shuffle goes like

this.

Just a different direction.

That's all.

Yeah, we go the reformed but shuffle goes to the right and the Armenians go to the left.

Well, it's right it's happy the right one because that's right one's a biblical one that's that's the right one.

That's right.

Just send a whole whole bunch of people for no no reason necessary.

So Yes slap.

The first time I saw the reformed but shuffle and then we'll get into some more stuff here was when I was assistant pastor at a church in

Ontario, California at a reformed church full of Dutch people and Had a lapel mic right here like and I was standing up, you know

preaching on Sunday night.

And I just had a cough.

I just coughed and I went like this as a habit to cough this way sort of spread it that way I want to go down and

I cough right in the mic and the speakers in the ceiling and It just sounded like God coughed.

I mean, that's what it sounded like and so I actually said I sound like God just coughed and then I saw everybody go.

And it was in unison and you could hear the fabric against the fabric.

You know, it was this.

I'm in trouble.

They talked about we don't make jokes about God.

Okay.

Sorry.

That's the first.

Well, it's something God could talk you can't do that.

I Was it's first time I saw the reform.

I'm serious it was like 200 people how they do that.

Okay.

So, um, let's talk about the three main types of

Dispensationalism and then we'll kind of end with that.

Okay.

And this is low level.

This is entry level.

Remember this is entry level, but there's still a lot here.

So there's classical revised and progressive dispensationalism.

Just as there are different aspects within covenantal theology.

There are aspects within dispensationalism.

So, um in classical Dispensationalism, there's seven dispensations.

In revised there's four or more and in progressive there's three or more.

So you can tell even among the revised and the progressives there's variations and it's okay

um.

So in the classical there's Davidic.

Which is the future covenant and two new covenants revised.

There's one new covenant and the progressive uh.

The davidic covenant is present and a new covenant.

But in revised the davidic covenant is future with a new covenant don't.

Don't even try to remember all this stuff to comprehend.

Okay um.

And the people in the classic dispensational view.

There are two separate programs one for israel one for the church in revised the uh.

The heavenly and earthly distinctions are blended.

They're not as distinct.

And between the church and israel and then they're progressive uh, it's one people the church

continues, uh.

With israel until israel believes that we're together.

Uh that gets into the believers the 70th week the church age.

Postponement theory the kingdom theory the spiritual spirit during the tribulation.

Let's do that one.

The classical dispensationalism the spirit is absent and not indwelling anybody during a tribulation

period.

Can you say that again, please?

Yeah, I don't like that either classical says a spirit pre -tribulation rapture.

The holy spirit is in the church.

The church gets raptured.

The spirit's not here.

That's the view.

Okay I don't like that.

It's highly problematic highly.

Especially since the wicked are taken first out of matthew 13 30.

You got problems.

They got problems.

Do you know what their foundation is?

The book of moronicles, um.

Sorry, but.

Well, they they have their their reasons they just go pre -trib in fact if you guys heard two weeks ago There were two women

who called up on the radio show very pre -trib rapture ish.

Do you guys hear that at all a little bit?

Yeah, and uh.

One woman wouldn't listen.

No, I'd say well, what about this?

They ignored it when there's something else.

She should argue that way.

No debate.

No nothing.

Yeah, just fine boy.

You're wrong and go on.

Yeah, and and it was what about this verse here?

But she did say at one point when I brought up matthew 13 30.

She said that's an interesting point I would think about that.

No, okay, that's fair but um, yeah, i've met uh pre -tribbers who uh

I'm serious.

I well, where's the verses and it's just I just don't see it in scripture.

I just don't see it.

But that's another I can whine about that some more other time.

Um,.

But uh during the tribulation period the revised dispensationalist will say the holy spirit's present, but he's

not indwelling anybody.

Well, then what's he doing?

I don't know just hanging out convicting people kind of working trying to get people to say but they don't really.

Uh, they don't really believe or they do believe but they're not indwelt.

And then um in progressive During the tribulation period, um, he's present and

indwelling people.

And sermon on the mount has millennial principles according to the classical the revised present ethics while

anticipating the coming kingdom and uh.

Progressive present ethics while anticipating the coming kingdom as well.

A covenantalist would say we're No kingdom of god is is covenantally based.

And the covenant requirements are here.

Jesus says he'll take the wicked out of his kingdom.

And the satan must be bound which is now.

Well, I think he's willing to let it loose.

We should study eschatology sometime.

Go through stuff.

So, uh, let me just say there's just There's a lot.

That this is not going to be settled.

And the reason it's not going to be settled is because the bible can be interpreted

for both sets.

And if you have a kind of a first Introduction into one or the other you tend to kind of go with that.

And When I was younger theologically, I was uh dispensational.

I didn't know I was but I believed in this because all I knew it's all I was taught.

When I started studying the bible and i'm not saying if you're dispensationalist.

You don't you started the bible.

You don't believe like me.

You're stupid not saying that but when I started studying the bible I started going.

Wait a minute.

That doesn't make sense to me.

There's this dispensational view and uh.

You know, I went to calvary chapel pre -trib rapture pre -millennialism.

And during this time of going there I converted to covenantalism.

And believed in and then later, uh all millennialism actually I remember the

moment when I converted to all millennialism because someone showed me two verses in the bible.

I was converted and have not looked back since.

Huh, which verse um.

First thessalonians 4 16 through chapter 5 verse 2.

It's a pericope two pericopes is what I should say.

And uh the day the lord comes like a thief of the night.

It's a rapture day.

The lord comes like a thief of the night new heavens and new earth.

And that's uh, second peter 3 10.

That's it.

There's no literal thousand year reign that happens at the same time bang Amil from then on and i've not

been able to shake that book by that guy.

You know.

What guy what book I know by guy what?

A millennialism.

Oh kim riddleberger.

Thank you.

Okay.

He does that's good.

Yeah, in fact, I used to go over kim's house in southern california.

Uh, there'd be other bible study people and then i'd go over his house sometimes we would talk theology for a while

and so stuff like that, but um.

Maybe we should do eschatology sometime if you guys want and that'll be interesting but uh.

So covenant is a very deep topic and dispensationalism is also a very deep topic.

And we can't just dismiss one or the other in light of one or the other.

We're to show respect for both sides.

In fact andrew and I we've done seminars together and what people like to see us do is argue covenantalism

versus Dispensationalism and we're so polite about how we do it that it's actually turned into a

couple of times where i've argued his position for him.

And he's argued my position for me and People have commented afterwards that they love to see people of

opposing views get along so well.

And we insult each other while we're up there in front of people.

Well, if you were smart like me andrew you'd understand this and uh people get a kick out of that and

They'll come back with something.

So, you know, it's a healthy difference there.

And uh, I would say dispensationally we are in the age of the distance of the erring dispensationalists.

We are in the dispensation of the erring dispensationalists, that's what I would say that they don't get it so

i'm a dispensationalist.

In that sense, what's that?

Then there's eight well, there'd be one big overarching the age the error of dispensationalism.

Which covers all of them?

Is what the age is that would be it?

So i'm just i'm a true dispensationalist.

That's it.

Say that Dispensationalist.

Anyway guys got any comments or questions?

Even in the chat room.

Let's see.

Okay.

Scriptural proof.

Oh, there's charlie doing stuff poor charlie.

He's got a I say stuff.

He's got to put all these things that he's going to know my website better than me.

I got a verse here.

I got a verse there put this in.

Well, was it interesting?

Yes informative.

Yes.

On one of your programs.

You were talking about satan being bound.

Yeah satan's bound, you know went back to a greek word.

Indicating what bound actually?

Oh that was in second thessalonians 2 When one who restrains is taken out of the way?

And uh.

And I went through recently and looked at it again.

I forgot what the word was.

But uh, the word does not mean removed.

It means that the ability to restrain you're there if i'm restraining somebody I have to be there to

restrain them.

To the presence and so it's like the restrainer is removed.

Or the restrainer stops restraining.

That's what the greek gets to that.

It's like someone in a doorway and allows passage.

But he's still there.

That's what the implication of the greek was.

In second thessalonians 2 because of this piece the pre millers and pre whatever's will say that the church has to

be raptured.

And then you have seven years of stuff.

And because that's when satan's going to be found during the later thousand years

and um.

And so now the second thessalonians 2 what they're going to say is that when the church is gone.

The one who restrains the holy spirit is taken away.

See makes perfect sense and it does make perfect sense.

That's all you had.

But it's not all you have.

In fact I have not told this story for probably 25 30 years.

But real briefly before anika and I got married sunlight christian center.

At the chapman traffic circle in third california chapman off just to the

uh west of the 55 freeway sunlight christian center and uh they

were.

They were pre -trib rapture people.

And the pastor joe magliotto.

Asked dave kimball my roommate and I and I forgot it was somebody else.

I think it was a third person.

It's been so long.

Asked to do a debate on the pre -trib versus post -trib rapture

and.

The church was a converted theater.

So it had this great stage.

And all these seats and the whole bed and we said sure we do that.

And the goal was not to win or lose.

The goal was just to show different sides and be real amiable and we said we agree to that.

That's not a problem.

We'll be at fisticuffs.

So he got I think was three and three.

Yeah, i'm pretty sure I forgot who the third person was.

But at any rate maybe it was even charlie.

I don't remember.

Maybe charlie's going with me.

I don't know but um.

So we all six met.

In order to map out the debate so that the people could be Blessed by it.

And what happened?

During that preparation time.

We kept saying to them.

You don't want to use that one.

That's not a good argument.

Here's why.

And we can't use that because it doesn't you know, we're trying to help them out if you go there.

It's not going to work for you, you know, they call something better.

Okay, so we're actually trying to help them and they actually realized that um.

They go my goodness, this is going to be easy and what was difficult was us actually maintaining

a debate.

That had debate elements where they didn't get their clocks cleaned.

And so on the stage when we did it, um.

There were lots of things that we didn't say that we could have said.

And we were trying to be merciful, but i'm not trying to brag.

It just was.

You know that they say well it's appointed to god.

God's appointed us not to wrath but salvation see that's a tribulation.

No, it's a it's about Damnation and salvation read the context, you know.

Well, okay.

Well, you know two men in the field one is taken one is left.

That's the wicked who were taken.

It was just because if they were to say that we're going to come back with that, you know.

And so that we really had trouble.

Having this debate and having it work and be a debate, but we did and it worked out people.

People actually said you guys won, but i'm still pre -trib.

Okay.

And we tried not to win we actually tried not to win.

We had people come up.

Yeah, you you guys, you know, you know your stuff better and you know.

Not an issue of knowing it better.

It's just you read you just just.

So anyway, if you're pre -trib rapture, sorry, you have my sympathies

I know people are going man.

This guy's arrogant.

That's true.

That is true.

What's that?

Shuffle.

The show there's a shuffle.

Okay, we need to do a pre -trib shuffle a pre -trib versus post -trib shuffle instead of going left and right.

It's probably something like I think that might be a little scoot.

Oh.

He's a graceful cat.

Yeah until.

You have got.

Okay, let's get him down because yeah, he'll move he'll move again later he's got to be where the people

are he's just such a.

He's such a good kid.

Yeah, we call him kittler.

Oh what kittler kittler kittler kittler here?

I'll show you why here show here's his mustache.

See kittler.

See mustache and the hair part.

So we call him kittler.

All right.

Anybody in the chat room have any questions?

And do you like this format with the phone.

Instead of the big camera from across the room and everything and does it sound good and all that kind of stuff.

Okay.

New comments, let's see.

There we go.

Post your questions here.

There you go.

What do you guys want to study next week while they're waiting?

Next week.

Oh, I will be here next week.

I'm not going to the ufo convention.

Oh, um, i'm going to go down to down to salt lake city.

I plan to be back tuesday night or wednesday.

I look at that ufo convention.

That looks.

What's that?

The ufo convention looks fun.

Yeah, but I didn't go by myself, you know.

Because it's five and a half hours to get where i'm staying in salt lake another seven and a half to eight hour drive down there.

And it's just a lot for a bit.

My you know.

Just tell your wife to put off the delivery for a week.

Yeah.

Another good smart statement from matt slick.

That's right questions about the honoring your parents honoring your parents.

Okay.

Let me see if I can get one of these questions for run.

Don't walk for.

From branham.

That's right.

Charlie branham is a heretic.

Absolute heretic.

Okay, which I said was meaning could we do a could you do a study on that.

On what?

On honoring your parents.

And yeah, just do whatever they say next.

It wouldn't be a very long study, but yeah what it means to honor different situations, right?

It's a difficult thing to do and implications of not honoring them.

And what does that mean?

Can you not honor?

Yes, you can.

If they were to ask you to disobey god, you don't honor them.

You don't do what they say.

It was it means to honor so respect and um.

You know honor your mother your father, uh, for example, I remember my dad he retired and he had different incomes from the

air force from a Job he had and he had he had money not a lot.

But you know, he had money and he had possessions.

And um a lot of times what children want to do is get their hands on their parents money their parents possessions.

Right.

That's not honoring them.

And so I told my dad I said dad look if you want you liquidate everything.

And if you want to take it out and and do a bonfire with all your cash, hey, i'll help you out.

I don't care.

I don't need what you've got.

I don't I don't I don't need to have it.

I'm, not looking to get something when you're gone.

I just don't that's not my thing and we have two brothers.

I have two brothers and all three of us had the same attitude.

Well, we're honoring him in that sense by showing that respect of who he is what he earned is

his.

And i'm not to dishonor him by saying I want what you can give me.

Which is a form of dishonoring so we're to revere our mom and dads our parents in the sense of

showing respect to them when we can and You know, my dad would would ask me to do

something okay dad, you know, let's go do it most of the time, you know.

You know and to not speak ill about them.

Uh is a way of honoring them as well.

And I you know.

It's not to say you can't say that my mom and dad did something bad.

Here's an instance that i've learned from this the kind of a thing but Generally, it means to show respect to

them to not talk about them behind their back uh to.

You know pray for them to uh do what they say to a point

you know because.

If you're you're 60 years old your 90 year old dad's still alive.

He goes.

This is what I want you to do.

Okay, what do you what do you got?

You know, uh, I want you to sell all your cars and all your house and I want you to you know.

Okay, what?

We have a problem.

But if he says I want you to treat your wife better.

Okay, you know because of course and things like that you see if I have to.

So if you don't do that, then what happens?

Uh, depending on the level and the extent god says, uh.

You know your days will be uh increased if you honor them.

And I think a lot of what that also includes is listening to their wisdom and their advice.

I think it's really where a lot of it's coming from but if you show disrespect to them, uh, there's actually.

To if you curse your mother and your father you could be killed for it in the old testament.

So they had that place of authority and that you showed that respect to them.

In that sense you did not disrespect them you honored them.

But you drew the line when they would ask you to do something that was wrong.

That's basically it's it just be getting a bunch of different examples of what that is and then working through a few of

them, but that's What it is.

I didn't honor my mom and dad very much sometimes.

Especially when I had to jump out a window once my dad was coming after me.

But I deserved it.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, i'm the small one in the family.

Okay, and i'm six feet tall 220 some odd pounds.

I'm the small one and my dad was six four and uh.

So I I jumped out of a window once I I deserved it.

But he was cool, you know, uh afterwards we you know, whatever.

Honor mom and dad.

Okay.

What nick?

What there's a question in the chat.

Okay.

What's the question?

Let's see.

Uh.

You can't rediscover something that was never there give me.

Can you give a brief overview of?

A brief overview of all millennialism.

Thanks, hon.

My wife's are you on the.

I guess you're on the phone and the other.

How do you get in there?

How'd she know that?

How'd she do?

How could you get in there?

It's technical.

She knows how to look at her phone.

But she.

Yes, you're all going oh, how's that guy live in that house?

Um, okay a brief overview of all millennialism would be that um, The millennial reign of christ

is not a literal thousand years, but it's a figurative period of time.

God owns the cattle on a thousand hills.

A day's a thousand years.

A thousand years is but a day.

The word thousand by itself is used very often in a figurative context.

Not always.

But it's very often in figurative context particularly in revelation 20 I saw an angel coming down from heaven with a key to the abyss.

And a great chain in his hand.

Well, those are obviously Literal and figurative an angel out of heaven literal a key and a chain.

Those are figurative.

They're not having a literal metal chain a literal metal key that he's got out of heaven.

It's not happening.

And he laid hold of the dragon.

That's a Figurative.

The serpent of old that's literal and bounding for a thousand years.

So which part of the thousand is figurative and literal?

I mean, what does it fit into the whole point is that it's a figurative context.

And also in our millennialism, we would say that we're in the kingdom of god now.

Because jesus said in matthew 12 22 to 32 that satan was bound.

Which is what the millennial people say he has to be bound.

What gets me is he said he was bound in matthew 12 22 to 30 said it In order to cast out

demons.

He's got to bind him first bind the strongman and he's bound.

He's doing it and then um.

In matthew 13 The first one's taken like the coming of christ or the wicked not the good and

What it says in in roughly verse 40 of matthew 13 is that jesus says he will take

God will take out of his kingdom all stumbling blocks out of his kingdom.

Well, that means they had to be in the kingdom here.

This is the kingdom of christ.

Now people say well then why are things so bad?

It's bad because the christians aren't behaving As though the lord jesus is their king in this

world and doing what's necessary according to the covenant requirements of the new covenant.

They're not doing what they got to do.

You know.

On that one.

Okay, and so uh some view that satan has some amillennialists.

Will say that satan has been released and I lean towards that view.

Because it says when he's released he will gather the nations to war.

We've seen world war one world war two multiple wars lately.

Famines earthquakes now, there's always been famines and earthquakes, but they statistically are really on the rise

and so.

That's why some amillennialists Suspect that satan was released 100 ish.

So 200 years years ago.

We don't know but that's just an idea.

And it is bring the nations to war.

And that we're in that kingdom reign of christ.

I believe we are.

I believe we're on the kingdom reign of christ.

I believe we have great power great authority as christians.

I believe that the christian church if it were to start acting like this and start teaching the mamby pamby else.

Crap that are taught in church.

And start teaching covenantalism start teaching election predestination.

Parties in the sovereignty of god the security that we have in christ and the authority that we have in christ.

Then I believe that that we could change the world we get on our knees and start praying and asking god to send us.

And go out and take risks knowing that god is always behind us and if we're going to behave covenantally.

According to what god has already said we're supposed to be doing that.

He's going to bless us in the effort instead of saying, you know, I want to get teachers that tickle my ears.

I'll send in my 25 bucks.

I can get that little key chain with the urn and some of them stones on it have been blessed by pastor so and so

reverend so and so and i'll put it on my keychain because that's going to help me or Miracle

water miracle water from the Place of jerusalem or whatever.

We brought shipped some water over and put little drops in each one of these whatever.

Here's miracle anointing oil, you know.

You get this oil and you put it on whatever you hurt and like this and you and you claim your victory just

Miracle snake oil.

Yeah.

Oh steven came out with this like different inspirational message.

Oh, yes.

Yes, I saw that.

Yeah, and then things don't work because you didn't confess some sin you had right.

You're not cured because you didn't do something.

Because you didn't do it, right?

Yeah.

So much heresy what I told you.

My wife is blind.

Yeah, we're going to a particular church at the time.

Okay I told her in that church That she was going blind.

It was her fault.

Oh brother.

It was because she was not living.

Right, that's right.

And uh, yeah, we left.

Who's in this man or his parents?

Right.

That's the same thing.

Well get this and long in these lines.

We're really tangenting out.

But I was talking to a guy in escondido, california before we moved up here and uh.

He's he was into that camp.

He was into that camp that said no no sickness.

No death.

No anything.

No, no sickness like that.

And I showed him exodus 4 11.

Because in there moses says, you know, I can't go to pharaoh.

You know, i'm not a good speaker and god says who makes the eye blind who makes the ear deaf who makes the tongue dumb.

Is it not?

I the lord.

That's what he says.

So i'm the one in control.

So you go.

So I showed this verse to my friend stan.

I can still remember sitting in his apartment staring at him while he read this verse for a full minute.

And then he said to me I don't know what it means, but it doesn't mean what it says.

It doesn't make any sense.

Okay, I don't know what it means, but it doesn't mean what it says.

And it was a perfect thing perfect it's a t -shirt.

I don't know what it means, but doesn't mean what it says, you know, mormonism, you know, atheism democrats constitutional democrat,

whatever.

Okay, let's see.

For an expanded look at the topic.

Okay.

Any other questions?

You got another one neek?

I got a weird question.

What are some differences between the dispensationalism you just talked about and mormon dispensationalism and

mormon dispensationalism?

Oh, that's a good one.

I think uh.

Dispensation of the fullness of times.

Just yeah ushered it in the first.

Dispensation began with adam.

Adam was a prophet first one that we know.

We are his descendants.

Yeah.

We have an ex -mormon here.

Is that you remember the song.

Sing it let's hear it.

Follow the prophet.

Yeah, that's like the fourth verse.

I think.

Follow the prophet.

Yes, and I follow jesus.

Follow the prophet.

The teaching is that there was um Dispensations beginning with adam is the first prophet.

Every dispensation Begins with a prophet where the revelation of god is given through that prophet for that

time period and then there's an apostasy.

Um, and then the second dispensation would be with enoch.

Um, and that one wow, I didn't know.

This is good.

Carried up into heaven the whole city was yes the whole city of enoch.

City of enoch.

I missed that.

I didn't know that.

Um, and then was uh Noah.

Um, and they go to abraham moses.

Um I don't think they do david with his own.

They may do david with his own.

It's been a while.

Um, they don't like david.

Jesus brought in a dispensation and then there was the great apostasy.

And because of how great the Dispensation jesus brought how great was the fall of that great apostasy.

And that apostasy is kind of foundational To mormonism if you believe that jesus brought that

kingdom.

Um the omni perspective the davidic kingdom of jesus brought the everlasting kingdom that would never be taken

from the face of the earth.

It kind of destroys mormonism's Foundation of that.

And then they would say we're in the last dispensation the dispensation of fullness of times that joseph smith ushered in.

The last prophet.

Yeah.

Oh good stuff.

I didn't know that stuff, but not really the last one, right?

No, well, there's another thousand year period coming.

Well.

Well, yes, but there's multiple prophets in this dispensation and dispensation isn't limited to a single

person or single profit necessarily.

The last dispensation it's just uh time.

Yeah.

How long you been out of mormonism?

Um five years five years now.

Praise god.

Oh, yeah, he's come a long way.

We've known each other.

Yeah.

That long four years five years.

I think I met you.

Uh year a year or something.

But Yeah, I remember I read his word in the gospel.

Um is found in the bible read the new testament.

Yeah, there you go listeners, that's right in the new testament read it that's right.

All right anything else?

Let's see.

Oh, okay.

I'm gonna hit this here new comments.

Uh.

Okay, I don't see anything any other questions neek.

You don't remember.

Okay, so what do you guys want to study next week?

I mean you mentioned eschatology.

Um post -millennialism pre -millennialism guys want to go over eschatology.

I'm here for whatever you're waiting for whatever.

What do you what do you want to do?

That sounds good.

Dave.

Yeah, that's fine.

Yeah, don't you want a calvinism?

We can go out to us you and I could do a special lunch we'll just talk calvinism.

Cigars whiskey and then talk theology.

Talk calvinism, but you gotta grow your beard out.

I I if I grow my beard out no smooching.

No, I say that for my wife to hear like I had a goatee a while back.

What.

Goatee.

A fake one, that's right get a fake beard.

And then cigar we can talk theology.

Yeah, well that was behind here.

Yeah, because I had a goatee and then that cut that was a significant reduction in smooching.

So, uh gotta have the smooches.

I got a great goatee and yeah kids.

No one people liked it.

My grandkids really your wife didn't like it.

Yeah.

What is with women it's more masculine.

She likes mine she likes yours.

Oh, you got a good looking beard.

Yeah, you have a good looking beard.

Mine looks like a scraggly little wet dog.

Yeah.

Oh the people behind facial hair hiding something.

He doesn't have it up top so he's got it here that looks good on him though, that's right.

It looks good.

Okay, let's see.

I guess that's it match.

Look can't grow a beard.

Yes, I can I I can.

But my wife, you know the smooching goes down.

That's it.

Is there a question.

I have to look up the passage.

You may know it offhand.

Um.

Should women pray in church with um.

With a head covering or oh fine with that.

There's some debate about the head covering issue.

Our first quintet is 11.

Because if it's just cultural then that.

You can't be consistent if you take that position, I think it's that passage.

It's a tough one because there's a textual variant in it and um.

And and what it it signifies is the issue of authority for the women are to Understand that they're under

authority their husbands in that church context.

It's not an issue of inferiority.

It's completely an issue of theology and.

So when they wear a symbol over their head of that authority, they're publicly stating that they are

in authority in a church ecclesiastical marriage relationship.

And what they're doing is they're saying publicly that they're submitting to the ways of god.

And that's what they're doing now.

In that culture to shave a woman's head was A scandalous it was a designation.

You were a prostitute you got caught adultery.

They shaved your head.

It was your shame.

Because the bible talks about women's hair.

Being a crown a symbol of her glory.

And also in that culture if a man a woman were out in public Back then and a

woman let her hair down like she would before her husband in the house.

That was so risque.

That i've read our accounts where the husband could divorce his wife for that because

it was in that culture.

The woman only let her hair down in the presence of her husband because it was a sensuous Kind of a symbol and some other

stuff and so to do that in public was a definite

Proclamation of that which is why when you go to I think it's luke 7 with a woman who let her hair down and kiss

jesus feet absolute scandal.

Absolute scandal and he does not rebuke her.

Oh, that's incredible.

We can do the parables sometime if you guys want.

Let's go through each parable and go through them in cultural context.

They become I'll do that.

Yeah, i'll do that next week.

Yeah parables.

Okay, and uh.

So i'll do that good parables.

Yes, right and so i'm not sure to do with it because.

Is it cultural some of it is?

But it also says because of the angels.

That means it's not cultural.

Well, what does it mean by because of the angels?

Well, the angels are under authority and that's why you wear it because the angels even they recognize the authority because the angelic

realm are So powerful, but they even have authority and you're to wear it because of that.

Well, is that right?

So that it no one's really come up with a right answer.

And so that's why I can't say well, here's there's a position I affirm I just don't know.

So in a church if a woman wants to wear a head covering i'm all for it.

I have no problem with that if she wants to not I have no problem with that either because the bible says be convinced in Your own

mind romans 14.

And so since that's not a clear passage and I have read commentators about this.

Uh, i've done my own research I read they're this way that way this way this way that way and um,.

Then they ask the same basic questions.

What does it mean because of the angels?

What does it mean because of this?

Um, what about the variance what about this what about that and Just don't have a great answer.

It's I wish I did but does that go.

Does that also apply to not wearing jewelry and.

Well, it says there in regards to jewelry that you're not to do that as an outward display, um.

As compared to that the inner beauty the real beauty is inner not outer.

It doesn't say that it's sinful to wear something jewelry, but.

You know i've seen some women on tv and stuff and it's so obvious that you're just trying to.

It's just it's repulsive, you know.

And that is shameful uh.

So, you know men don't hardly wear jewelry except lately in pride month.

Then they prance so, uh.

Women aren't too, uh are not to dress in a way or do something that adorns themselves in a way that

men would lust or Have a problem with that.

They're not to draw attention to themselves with that kind of jewelry.

And where's that fine line?

I don't know.

You know, it just depends if you you know a woman could have five rings on on her left hand and it not be

ostentatious.

But what if it's you know, all these diamonds and these big things and all this other jewelry?

At what point it becomes difficult to say?

So the idea is to maintain modesty.

With what you you're given.

I have a friend who attends a church.

She can't wear pants.

She can't wear jewelry.

She can't cut her hair.

That's that's yeah, that's been much in a bun.

It's not covered all the time.

It's up in a bun.

I don't know what her find out has yet to tell me what the name of her church is.

But she's called the two by twos.

Um, like even a medical alert bracelet.

Um, because that's jewelry um which i'm i'm swaying her

against that because I have mine, but mine is Jewelry in nature, but her

pastor outrightly told her she cannot wear a medical alert necklace.

You know.

I volunteer to meet with them and have a discussion.

That never happened.

But I volunteer so many times.

They don't want people don't want to talk to me.

They're like that, you know, you're not epistolic or like that and then some mennonite groups are like that.

Yeah, you know, so.

Okay, man, I have a question.

Sure.

What's my dad about in the past.

But what do you think of crosses being jewelry, yeah, I have a problem with that.

You know actors we've got these pop singers and rappers out there using them

ungodly they have crosses on.

That's sinful.

Yeah, because I don't wear it across.

That's blasphemous.