Matt Slick Bible study covenant and dispensationalism

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Can you okay good. It's on it's live live video. Now. This is a different setup

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What my wife's saying something? No, what what? My wife's over there right over there

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There's somebody else Okay, I'm just getting in trouble, you know making myself in what okay, no sandwiches for me tonight

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All right All right, so have you noticed the format's a little bit different last week

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Well when I did the show here, we did it with a camera and a laptop about 12 feet away And now we're doing with my phone so we're just giving it a go to see how the sound goes and things like that and get some feedback and some stuff and I can read the text in here off the phone.

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It looks pretty good So what we're gonna do is pray we're gonna discuss the issue of it because you're an air conditioning on even more because you're hot

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No, it's it turn it on turn it on, you know, there's a lot of how hot in air especially hot air here

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That's what I'm talking That's because it's

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Yes Yeah, we have air conditioning issues here people

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No, make it colder make it no make it home. Okay, so let's get going here

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We're gonna be discussing covenant and dispensationalism. I'm most absolutely definitely a covenantalist not a dispensationalist

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We'll go through what different covenants there are and then I'm going to discuss dispensationalism and try and give it a fair shake

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Okay So let's pray and I'll just jump right in All right Lord Jesus, thank you for today, and I thank you

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Lord for the technology Hopefully that's fixed and continue to work today We ask for your mercy or grace and as we go over the topics

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Lord just ask for the wisdom from my words and that I would represent both sides properly and that the result would be that we would

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Grow closer to you and that you'd be glorified in our efforts. So Lord Jesus, we give you thanks And we ask this in your precious name.

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Amen All right so a covenant let's talk covenant the basics of what a covenant is a

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Covenant is a pact or an agreement between two or more parties

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It's a contract. It's an agreement There's promissory aspects to it conditional aspects to them there are

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Stipulations Rewards punishments. There's all kinds of different covenants. We're going to get into several of them tonight so one of the most common covenants that we are aware of is a marriage covenant and we got a couple here who's married and There's married married married so Married You're not married.

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Okay. Well if you're available anyway So a covenant is a pact or an agreement between two or more parties and covenants have signs

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So here's a covenant sign. My wedding ring. There's a covenant sign and That's how

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God works biblically is he He establishes a covenant and that which is an abstraction and then what he does

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Sorry distracted by the cat and then what he does I see movements and then

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I start looking where movements are Yeah, and so, uh, where was I? If I'm the covenant

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Signs rings so God work covenantally. He develops covenants in in all kinds of ways you want to use this

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It's fine Okay All right Kind of help you out

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All right, we'll get we'll get into this so the word covenant in Latin is testamentum And so we had to get the word test testament.

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We get Old Testament and New Testament We have the Old Covenant the New Covenant Basically, the Old Covenant will be discussing how many there are with the very nature of the covenant is but the covenant actually begins

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In the very mind in the heart of God you go to Hebrews 13 20 It talks about the blood of the eternal covenant the eternal covenant.

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Now, what is that covenant? It doesn't exactly tell us what it is in the context But what we see from other areas of scripture is that it appears to be

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This is what I hold to is that the father elected chose we know over election and predestination too bad

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You weren't here last week day Election and predestination so we went over that last week, but God elects he chooses people in Christ Ephesians 1 4

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Where and the the father elects picks chooses the son is going to be the one who

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Redeems the elect and the Holy Spirit applies redemptive work now, there's more aspects in there

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But those are the three basics that we can kind of work with so we had the father choosing the son redeeming the

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Chosen and the Holy Spirit applying the redemptive work to the chosen ones they believe So this eternal covenant was something that was established from forever ago

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Forever ago because of the nature of the Trinitarian Communion God has always existed and his knowledge has always existed and he has always known everything

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There's no place in time when his knowledge increases. Sorry open theists, but that's just a biblical position

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You're you're wrong. And so God has always known and so God has always covenanted in the eternal covenant to elect redeem and apply the redemptive work of Christ and This is for the elect the universe exists for the elect

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Now a lot of people don't think that but if you think about it The reason the universe is existing is so that we could exist in it and there could be a redeemer

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So that we can be with God forever So God has drawn people out of eternity to have fellowship with or with himself forever

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He already has fellowship with the inter Trinitarian Communion the non elect Will reap the benefits to some degree of the atoning sacrifice of Christ The reason they do is just an incidental

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The reason they do is because God for the sake of the elect does not destroy the tares So allow both the wheat and the tares

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Matthew 13 But both the wheat and the tares to grow together at the time of the harvest I'll say to the Reapers first gather the tares to burn them and the wheat are gathered and put in the barn

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So we know that the tares and the wheat are simultaneous But the instructions of the landowner are do not tear up the unbelievers

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You might tear up the believers with them. So the unbelievers their judgment is stayed is held back

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Because for the sake of the elect So this has happened all through history This is the covenant promise well, the thing is that much of the aspect of the covenant is that the elect who are

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Chosen from the foundation of the world Ephesians 1 for aren't manifested in real time

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All the time what I mean by that didn't come out Right is a there might be someone who gets saved tomorrow who's been elect, but we don't know that so they're not all manifesting that election right now and So what we're gonna find is that as time increases more and more people will discover who have been born who have been

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Elected or granted belief Lipton's 129 granted repentance second to be 225, etc. All right, so Covenants have patterns and We're back when

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I was in seminary we had Meredith Klein Come in and teach and Meredith Klein was impressive

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He was impressive. He was going through his Bible turning pages like this and reading

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You know reading his English Bible just going through when they go back to this he had these verses memorized He was just going except that he wasn't doing it in English he was doing it from Hebrew to English as fast as we could talk and he was going back and forth in the

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Hebrew Bible and When I discovered that I was like, okay, and then He taught himself some other languages like Ugaritic.

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I don't know if those are real when he knew but that kind of guy, you know He's the one who basically discovered what's called the suzerain vassal treaty pattern of the third millennium

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BC third and fourth millennium BC and suzerain vassal treaty pattern is this a suzerain is a big king of vassals a smaller

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King and So the suzerain would make a treaty with the vassal now. There might be one suzerain and ten vassals and lesser

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Kings She might have a kingdom one major King and he might have a geographical area for example divided into four into a ten areas and there'd be a small vassal a king small the king leading each one of those groups and so what would happen is that the the suzerain would make a treaty with the vassals and They would say well, this is who

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I am This is what I've done because a vast the suzerain would say my name is so -and -so

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I've done this I've delivered a you know one eight wars and it's provided this and that and you know did all this stuff, but you know and Then he would say here's the stipulations that I'll provide

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Military protection for you if you provide, you know Ten percent of your food production to our house then and we'll store it and if anybody has any problems

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Then we'll distribute it. You know, it's just these kinds of things. It was for the mutual benefit and And then each party in the covenant

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Agreement would get a copy of the coven of the government the document. Why is this important?

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Because when you look at the Ten Commandments, I've got no I said this so many times before the Ten Commandments are two

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Copies of the same thing you see it all the time It's four and six and five and five forget that just toss that it's ten and ten and the reason it is because it's a suzerain vassal treaty pattern found in the

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Ten Commandments because it says Starts off. I'm the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt out of the house of slavery

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This is who I am. This is what I've done and it is mine. You know, my name is Lord Yahweh stipulations are given you shall have no two gods before me

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You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain and then there are punishments involved for breaking the commandments

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You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain for the land For the Lord will not leave him unpunished who takes his name in vain honor your father and mother that your days may be prolonged so if you broke the

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Agreement those punishment and if you kept the agreement there was rewards the suzerain vassal treaty pattern

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This is what I'm absolutely convinced This is what it was because that was the time and the place when the

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Ten Commandments were written So, of course the Covenant is between God and his people.

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He gets a copy they get a copy ten and ten That's it ten and ten because it symbolizes that the people had their copy and God had his copy there to eat not equal parties, but like a suzerain vassal treaty pattern and so they had the copies

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That's what was going on Now where were those Ten Commandments copies kept Our covenant what was on top of the

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Ark of the Covenant the mercy seat with the cherubim now so Then King David rose to his feet and said listen to me brethren and my people.

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I Had intended to build a permanent home for the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord and for the footstool of our

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God So I had made preparations to build it the Ark of the Covenant and the footstool

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It looks like the mercy seat is the footstool Because of what he says here.

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This is first Chronicles 28 verse 2 Now we don't know that for sure, but it certainly seems to imply that In Isaiah 66 1 thus says the

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Lord heaven is my throne and earth is my footstool and In Excuse me.

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Psalm 132 7 and 8. Let us go into his dwelling place That's the tap tap vernacular temple.

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Let us worship at his footstool arise Oh Lord to your resting place you and the ark of your strength.

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So the footstool is More than one place related to the ark the presence of the ark so this is why a lot of theologians really do believe that the

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These are the mercy seat or the Ark of the Covenant is the footstool of God not that the footstool is

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Something that is lowly because when a king would sit on his throne he didn't and the throne was elevated Well, he didn't want his feet to dangle good.

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It kind of just doesn't look distinguished so they would give a footstool and it became a symbol of Subjection that you you know, my feet will be on you as my feet are on this the footstool, but it also is a

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Representation of the place of the throne where God himself is sitting. So the presence of God is in the

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Holy of Holies So there's a holy place in the Holy of Holies We should do a study on the Holy of Holies the holy place the temple tabernacle, but um

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And so as the high priest would go into the holy place They were separating the holy place from the

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Holy of Holies was the veil You'd go around the veil and in the holy place was the Ark of the Covenant With a mercy seat and in the

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Ark was the Ten Commandments Right to tablet two tablets Ten Commandments the bud of the

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Aaron's rod and a jar of manna So we have the formation of life out of death.

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We have the manna, which is the habit word out of heaven I'm skipping ahead what that basically is and the

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Ten Commandments is the law of God or reflection of the moral character of God So it symbolizes that the commandments one copy is in the presence of man and another copies in the presence of God That's where we're getting this

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Ten Commandments stuff. So people say seminary and they call it cemetery I hate that when

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I do that some are bad, but I learned this in Seminary and I've been so grateful

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Because that one thing opened up a lot of other stuff about Covenant We're gonna get into some of this stuff of how

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God works and why he does this now God Institutes covenants he institutes covenants.

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He created the marriage covenant. He created the eternal covenant Well, I can't say he created it because if you really think about it, it always was that way

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So it couldn't come into existence, you know, we get to logical priority issues. We're not gonna get out of all that All right

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So covenant is how God first decided to deal with man with mankind the eternal covenant

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Hebrews 13 20 and The conditions of the eternal covenant

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I'm just gonna some stuff later. Okay, I don't get ahead. There's a lot here. There are two basic types of covenants conditional and unconditional

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Unconditional is where it doesn't matter what the responding party does or does not do So In a marriage covenant.

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It's it's kind of interesting. It's both conditional and unconditional Because you know, my wife's right there and it doesn't matter how nice she is or how not nice she is

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I'm to love her on that's there's not conditioned on how she is and vice versa but on the other hand our covenant is dissolved when one of us dies and So it's both conditional and unconditional

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So an unconditional covenant has aspects where God says I will never leave you or forsake you

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It's not conditioned on our behavior. He was ten five. I think it is so he's promised to be with us

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And he will never leave us. He'll never forsake us period. It's part of the eternal covenant, which is another reason

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Eternal security is true. Okay, how many people are in the room? Okay, so a conditional covenant

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Does depend upon the faithfulness of the both parties So example, you know is if when one of us dies then the covenants broken

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You know soon as one of us dies the other one's no longer married period single and so There are various ones in the

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Old Testament now you may be familiar with the one where I forget where it was where God had an animal dissected and Then the pillar of cloud went through between those two halves.

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You know why that was Now there's a shedding of blood which is interesting but he was saying this let it be done to me if I break the covenant

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Okay, the blood Signifies the ratification of a covenant you go to Hebrews 9 15 through 16

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For the ratification is when the death of the testator occurs. You also go to Hebrews 8 7 8 13

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I think it is our covenant is ratified without the shedding of blood. There is no real covenant and In this sense what we're talking about here, let me tell you we can go over this and There's a lot more that we can get into there.

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This is a deep deep topic So the question that becomes how many covenants are there?

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I don't know you studied a lot of theology How many do you think there are? at least five

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Anybody how many do you think there are? That's a good question, I don't know

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Nick how many do you think there are 53 Problem might be there might might be that many in the

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Bible recorded But What's that?

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Major was at least five some say there's three covenants. Some say there's two something.

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There's only one The reason they do this is because of how you look at what a covenant is

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So for example, the eternal covenant is one covenant But all other covenants are the result of that one covenant

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So in that sense we'd say well There's really only one real covenant and the other ones manifest out of that Then there's a covenant of grace the covenant of works.

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We'll get into that. Well, then we can say there's two main covenants or We can say inside the covenant of grace there's certain covenantal aspects like the baptismal covenant or the which enters you into that new covenant and then the communion elements which are the participation of the continuation of the covenant

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So how many covenants are there? Yes That's a good question.

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I lean towards one covenant but sometimes two

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Then go back to one and then I go wait a minute could be seven But no, I think it's one and so what

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I'm doing is just admitting it's not that precise It's a very brilliant theologians have argued

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But as I always say it always comes down to what your definitions are if you do more precisely you define something than the better Off you are in saying how many there are and so all our answers here are basically correct because we have not

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Really defined real precisely what it really is in all kinds of situations or to get it

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So the basic definition of a covenant is a pact or an agreement between two or more parties But advance that a little bit a pact or an agreement with stipulations

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Rewards and punishments generally, but not all have Punishments because if it's unconditional see

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Well, then which covenant we get different definition we're going to go with and this you can see why go away Okay, so if it's one covenant we defined it as unconditional then there's only one if it's you do

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Define covenant with conditional aspects then we could say there's more than one Okay.

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All right So let's talk about the eternal covenant The father is all my notes.

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Okay, I'm just covenant The father required of the son that he should atone for the sins of those whom the father had given him first John 2 2 right

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John 6 39 and That he would do what

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Adam failed to do by keeping the law Adam failed to keep the law and Jesus did keep the law now.

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How many Adams are there? To the first Adam and the last

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Adam first one is 15 46 and I think it is the last Adam Jesus is called the last

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Adam now that's interesting because we've already talked about the issue of federal headship before Federal headship is where the male represents a descendants.

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So in Christ All All live in I don't in Adam all die in Christ all shall be made alive first Corinthians 15 22

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So in Adam in Adam is a sign of federal headship that everybody was in him

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Represented by him and then there's a group represented by Jesus. We called in him

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Were you going outside? Something I said

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My wife's going outside. What is it? What's wrong? What what oh, okay she goes man so What's gonna get wet

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What's gonna good? What's gonna get wet? The fire. Okay, don't get the fire get wet

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I'm so asking for trouble What do you guys leave all right now so Oh that that's it's a distraction, okay, we'll wait.

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All right. Okay. Go ahead Right month sin open sin month

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We'll get to that we're gonna get to the different covenants we're gonna get to that we'll talk about it the

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Noahic covenant Okay, we'll do that because There's no way a covenant month.

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That's it. I like that. Whoa And okay, I'm gonna get sidetracked.

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That's a good question So the requirements of the eternal covenant is that the word?

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Would become man that he'd place himself under the law Galatians 4 4 and that after accomplishing forgiveness of sins and eternal life

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He'd apply that to the elect the Holy Spirit would be involved in there All right, so this is the basic idea of that Then we're going to have manifestations of the covenant in different forms different times

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Now we're going to get to what's called the adamic covenant, which is also called the covenant of works the covenant between god and adam where adam and eve

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Was to maintain his right position with god via works and obedience to god's command

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So he was to keep his position with god by his works Could he? No in a sense.

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Yes in a sense. No If he'd have kept all the commandments And just done what he's supposed to do like not go one.

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Just don't eat that tree. That's it Would he have continued to live forever if he had never eaten that tree?

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Yeah Okay I don't know how long you guys would have been i'd have been up there.

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What's that tree for you know? And um

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The covenant command was to multiply and subdue the earth matthew genesis 1 28

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And the one of the conditions was don't eat the tree the knowledge of good and evil genesis 2 27 and if you do you'll die stipulations, okay and uh

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But the word covenant is not used there at all. It's not used there But as we can see it is it's a covenant and the covenant sign is the tree

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Okay, it's what represents and uh Now We need to bring up the idea that Um in a lot of covenants you can negotiate the terms and that before you come to an agreement

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And so when I performed you guys marriage ceremony We met beforehand it went over the covenant documents and the covenant requirements and what these things met

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Meant and why it was so serious and things like that and when we got married

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Um the pastor Gave us a copy of the covenant.

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Uh Promises and in there was a promise that the wife would obey her husband and So I wish

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I would have kept it in but I took it out But anyway, so what I did was I asked him to to remove that And the reason was what's that?

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She's going yes And it was my idea and the reason was because I take

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I think I take it so seriously my commitment to god And and my wife has a great commitment to the lord as well

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And if she had made a promise to obey me, what if I said to do something? Wrong, right?

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Whatever. She didn't do it then. She'd be in sin and so I That was a way of protecting, you know,

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I don't want that so we negotiated the contract a little bit Now I wish I would have said some other stuff in there

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But hindsight what's that She's a good sandwich maker. She's a good sandwich maker.

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She's a good cook and uh I would probably put in more smooching, you know, just some smooching stuff is like smooches, you know

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Morning smooch. Oh, she's going like this now. She's hiding herself, but I put the camera around and show Maybe I should do that here.

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Let me see. Yes, I should do this Yeah, there it is there she is say hi hun There she is.

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Okay So there she is. Okay. I had to show everybody that's my wife. All right He's my favorite wife also, all right now

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She's the only one I got that's right So the covenant sign was a tree of of life and um in it we see that adam represented all people

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Now this is i'm going to say something here that I think is really important to understand The covenant obligation was to adam

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You are to multiply you're to fulfill the requirement of subduing the earth

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Now that subduing of the earth is very important. It is to be done in a godly way under the guidance of god

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That's not being done today very much at all plastics trash things all over the place

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Raping and pillaging the land. It's like when uh in our country here when the buffalo were basically annihilated

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They shoot them for fun You know, this is ungodliness Now here's a question

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Does this covenant requirement? Does it? Does it include?

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everybody in adam So does it include the unbelievers as well as the believers? As an obligation to fulfill this covenant

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Something to think about Now i'll give you some more information in adam all die

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Right first covenants 15 22 romans 5 18 says through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men

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So did adam represent everybody? Yes, he did so Does the obligation

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For Of the adamic responsibility is it passed down to the progeny to the descendants?

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Yes So the unbelievers have the moral obligation to treat the earth.

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Well It's just one of the aspects of the covenant um, there's more because of faithfulness there's you know,

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The issue of one husband one man one woman's that are breaking that in pride month And uh divorce is so readily available they're breaking the covenant and they are under the responsibility

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Of the adamic covenant now, they may say well we don't like that and i've had atheists they don't like that kind of stuff and I just say so Okay, you don't like it.

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I don't like it when I stub my toe. It's just a reality Well, I don't accept it. Well, you don't have to accept it You're going to face god on the day of judgment.

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I don't believe in god. You will when you face him You know, I just keep talking like that. It's all true and uh

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That I say to say to them a theological description for your position is for you is your host

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And um All right So the covenant of grace or the covenant of redemption the covenant between god and the elect

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Is based entirely on god's grace and not man's effort or will now that's important Some people would say that the covenant of grace is dependent upon our ability to keep that covenant in order to stay saved to that I say malarkey no if our covenant faithfulness

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Is what was required for us to maintain our salvation? um

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It's going to be gone. It's going to be gone very quickly very quickly Okay especially for dave because Dave would be gone.

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He'd be over and he'd He'd when dave you missed your opportunity. He said when you blew it you'd come over and find me and go

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Oh, you're already here matt. Yeah, that's true So it's between the the lord god and the elect

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Now a lot of people don't like the idea of god only dying for the elect but that's what colossians 2 14 says

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And jesus says he leaves it lays his life down for the sheep and john 10. It says you're not my sheep um

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If you pay for his debt, the debt doesn't exist anymore. He paid for our sin debt So this is an unconditional.

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Um, it's conditional but it's unconditional It's conditioned on the work of christ not on our faithfulness um

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But so you can see it's kind of conditional non -conditional as far as us goes. It's not conditioned because jesus says

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You know, john 10 27 28 my sheep hear my voice. I give eternal life to them And they shall never perish.

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No notice. He says I give eternal life to them and they shall never perish in john 3 16 It says god's love the world to give his only begotten son that whoever would believe in him would have

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Would have everlasting life never perish or it says never perish but have everlasting life forget which order is now but never, uh eternal life and never perishing are coupled

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This is because all that the father has given to the son The son will not lose john 6 37 through 40

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This is because in the eternal covenant The father gave the elect to the son and the son came to redeem them and jesus can't fail to fulfill the covenant requirements

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In the inter -trinitarian communion, which ultimately means that when people say you can lose your salvation

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They're saying that jesus failed to keep the covenant bounds Which would mean mean that he sinned furthermore

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It would mean that those who teach you can lose your salvation. You've got to keep it by how good you are No, you don't you keep it by by believing.

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Well, do you choose to believe? Yes. Well then Take credit For your own believing and i've asked people that you take credit for your own believing.

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Of course I do I don't even take credit for my own believing but there's nothing good in me Jesus is the one who lives in me.

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He's the one who awakened my heart my mind He's when he granted that I believe philippians 1 29 That's it.

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So I believe because of what god has done for me and that's it So I am eternally secure in christ.

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Can I go out and send all I want? Yes, I can But i'm regenerate john 3 3 through 5 2nd

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Corinthians 5 17 uh 5 17 5 7 5 21 were made, uh new creatures in christ 5 17 made new creatures so i'm chained

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I don't want to go out and and sin I war against all this because The regenerative work of god is concomitant with salvation

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Which then means that we are saved we're in the camp of christ and we're going to war against our sin That's the manifestation of redemption the redemptive work of god in us

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Because of the covenant of grace where he's made up between the us and the elect. I mean god in the elect And the conditions of the salvation are faith in christ period

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That's it. There's no condition in which you lose your salvation Faith in christ romans 5 1 having therefore been justified by faith and who's the mediator of the new covenant?

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I could barely hear that word Christ very good I gotta work on them.

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I gotta get it. Okay, and the covenant sign of the new covenant is

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The cross The cross communion communion which represents the cross

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And I think baptism is the means by which we entered into that covenant the way the uh

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Circumcised were entered into the abrahamic covenant and once you're in the covenant You had certain signs you were to participate inside of that covenant.

34:01

One of them was Participating the passover Well, so my position is that the covenant of baptism sign of baptism

34:08

It enters you into a covenant relationship, which wise could be for children And uh, you participate in the covenant boundaries later on.

34:17

Um, you get older and stuff like that That's been going to expand that more some other time. All right

34:23

The eternal covenant is the model for the covenant of grace If there was no eternal covenant between the father and the son there could be no covenant of grace between god and man and the elect

34:35

All right. So this is why when I study this I go. Yeah, there's really one main covenant the covenant of of the eternal covenant

34:43

That's that's where it all began But some definitions of those covenants underneath it don't exactly fit each other

34:50

So there's a differentiation but they're there under the umbrella of the big one. So I hold to the umbrella idea of the covenant of the eternal covenant and then

35:00

I kind of lean towards covenant of grace a covenant of works two covenants and then you could

35:05

Get into variables in there but then if you just go to like we already had the adamic covenant and we've already talked about the

35:13

Eternal covenant. That's two And now we've talked about uh The covenant of grace, which is the covenant with the elect.

35:21

There's three the covenant the adamic covenant already got that That's we have three so far. Let's get into The covenant of noah

35:30

The noahic covenant It was a promise of god to noah to never again destroy the world with water

35:39

With water will he destroy the world again? Yes, he will Second peter three nine and ten, but he's not going to do it with water

35:46

And he talks about this covenant in um, genesis nine so the covenant sign

35:58

I didn't ask you what's the sign of the eternal covenant its future

36:07

When it was ratified okay, so The covenant sign of noah was the rainbow

36:15

And the rainbow is interesting it's formed out of water Reflection of light and water light and water light, you know, god is light through that water

36:23

It's interesting stuff, but you don't take it too far so what we have now is

36:30

We have unbelievers who mock The truth of god they use the rainbow flag as a sign of pride

36:43

And yet It ultimately is a sign of their own destruction

36:50

If we were to take time out and take a tangent where we went to hebrews, uh romans 1 starting at verse 18

36:57

The wrath of god is being revealed against all ungodliness of heaven in verse 26 to 28 they exchanged the

37:03

The function of the woman for the function of the man and you know, it talks about this. I don't have it memorized And it clearly talks about homosexuality and the perversion associated with that So homosexuality is a perversion it is unrighteous it is aberrant sexual behavior

37:22

It is a sin and they need to repent of it. It doesn't mean we hate them It doesn't mean that we want to damage them or hurt them

37:31

But it does mean that they need to repent of this great sin. It's one of the few sins in the scriptures I think it's the only one i'm even aware of where when you commit it

37:39

Not just once but you're in it. God gives you over to it and that's the judgment That is the judgment

37:47

He gives you over to the depravity of your heart your mind to a reprobate mind He gives it gives you over to it.

37:54

So they believe The lie and then the last verse says they go promoting That lie, so now what we have in the world

38:02

Is a false governmental and social system that is Has done what isaiah 520 warns us about beware of those who say good is evil and evil is good

38:13

This is exactly what's happened And our country now as an official stat state status of the government is to promote homosexuality

38:24

And we know it because when obama was in had a rainbow flag on the white house the rainbow colors

38:32

And which I considered an abomination And And if you stood against that you're now the one who's evil you're the one who's the bigot you're the one who's in Incompetent morally you're the one who's got the problem when this shift occurs then

38:53

The wicked will persecute the righteous Now my opinion

38:59

I believe our country is already lost I don't see it as recovering. I see it falling apart.

39:05

I don't know what's going to happen. I think it's gonna be civil war I think um, if that doesn't happen then at the very least the very least we're going to have a

39:14

Semi -marxist regime or socialist thing. It's going to it's going to go for the next few years It's going to get worse and worse for the christians will be persecuted because they're standing up for righteousness

39:25

Now what I believe will this is my opinion Okay, I believe that the church will become persecuted and a lot of churches are going to shut down They're going to shut down all over the place

39:35

And then we're going to start meeting in underground systems and ways And we've already started working on some stuff about this early stages but This is when the christian church is going to grow

39:49

And so it's going to be purified because the christian church at least here in america had become lax

39:55

Because it is not doing what's supposed to be doing is being salt and being light it has

40:03

Very clearly compromised the truth. All you gotta do is turn on sunday uh sunday morning preachers

40:11

I want to get I want to get a um an old tv several of them

40:18

And and and hook up cable to each one on sunday mornings Outside in a field so that I can take my ak and shoot

40:31

That one while that guy's talking And then turn another channel another one and get another preacher who's saying stupid stuff like Yes, the key chain of the erm and thummum and you get the 12 stones and this will help protect you

40:46

So We're the next one because this is the kind of Stupidity that is occurring in the church today absolute assaninity

40:57

And the christian church is so anemic and so weak. It doesn't even know what to do now god has

41:05

Some might say curse to me my wife might say that Some might say other things the opposite end but with this desire to know the truth of god's word

41:14

I got stories I could tell you about the introduction of this how this began years and years ago Was with anik.

41:20

It's it's interesting story But nevertheless, I rarely talk about it. But the thing is

41:26

I understand theology. I understand this. I don't say I understand everything and i'm teaching you guys, right? And i'm not i'm no better than you.

41:33

Okay, don't okay, but you've learned a lot, right? You've been exposed to a lot of stuff and you're going man.

41:39

I didn't even know this stuff I get people calling me on the radio. I had no idea about this stuff. I get emails

41:44

I didn't even know that this stuff in the bible was there when I go to church I don't hear any of this stuff.

41:49

I get that a lot Well, it's because the preachers aren't teaching biblical theology and what they're doing is five minutes of introduction five minutes of a joke

41:57

Or they're going to do a a story to warm you up and then you know So joe and I went to a church months ago, well, it took seven minutes for that guy to get to the bible the scripture

42:11

Wow seven minutes But I went to another church by myself a couple years ago checking it out Just checking stuff out and went to guy was going to preach on colossians three one through five

42:20

One of my favorite areas of scripture. There's so much there and i'm like yes

42:26

Yes, this is going to be good. I end up walking out halfway through the sermon And I kept on Okay, why because it was basically low level stuff

42:42

And I couldn't take it Because it was so vacuous And just nicey -wicey and that's it.

42:49

There was so much there Why is it there for us to learn? See the bible old covenant new covenant is there for the elect to learn from To study now not everybody has the ability to study like I do, you know full -time, okay

43:07

But I get the privilege of doing that and saying this is what i've learned. That's what i've learned That's what i've learned And it's you know privilege.

43:13

Okay, praise god. Well, we are obligated as christians to study And if we'd have been doing our job as christians all of us not just us in this room, but you know all of us

43:25

We wouldn't have pride month where The opposite of godliness is paraded

43:32

As good And if you disagree You're going to be punished And this is what's happening now.

43:39

I personally believe as an example We'll get some more covenant stuff.

43:45

Um, if you go into google and type in what is the trinity? Type in what is the trinity?

43:52

Karm comes up on a third page Maybe seventh way down almost to the fourth page

43:58

Go to duck duck go. I think it's number one or two Yahoo, it's number one or two

44:04

Bing is number one or two Except for a couple ads. I don't count those And I did some other uh search engines lesser known ones one or two one two or three.

44:15

It's right there Now I say and karm says homosexuality is a sin and I believe that google is punishing

44:23

Karm and other christian sites who say this is the truth I believe it's happening and i've got records going back 10 years

44:31

On a daily basis, maybe it's 10 years eight years daily basis and i've got it all graphed out and all this stuff

44:38

Okay, it's teach excel so I know how to do all this stuff and do all this stuff And you can see it going down down down down down over the years

44:46

And others other ministries this is happening, too so Because you gotta understand something about the covenants.

44:54

So if my wife and I um aren't getting along and Either one of us or both of us decides to honor our covenant

45:03

By loving each other not based on conditions of if I you know, she's being nice or i'm not being nice or whatever it is

45:10

And we do what's right before god. He blesses the covenant keepers Because that's what he wants.

45:16

This is what I want you to do. I'll bless you in this If the christians start keeping the covenant requirements that god has given us in the new testament

45:26

To love god love our neighbor speak the truth honor mom and dad. Don't steal be faithful in your marriage

45:34

Evangelize preach that gospel they start doing these things Then god will reward the covenant workers

45:43

When I say this i'm not saying we do this to get a reward that's not what i'm saying There's a blessing that's upon the covenant

45:50

Obedient people we are a covenant people of god You don't hear this kind of theology talked about from the pulpit, but we are a covenant people the eternal covenant covenant of grace covenant of works

46:00

Covenant of the adamic covenant the noah covenant the new covenant.

46:06

We are covenant people What would happen if we were to? Start saying let's get the covenant aspects listed out

46:13

I could do that for you guys for another study if you want and we start seeing how can we do this? It doesn't mean we have one two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight nine ten ten of us here

46:23

One two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight nine nine of us here Does it mean that each one of us here has to perform all the covenant requirements?

46:33

so You know, uh, it might be to you know, part of the covenant might be teach so I teach

46:39

Someone might be to fill the earth. Well need a mom for that, you know different people have different covenant aspects and requirements

46:46

But as a church as a whole if we start being taught theologically and covenantally what's going on Then the people become more covenantally minded but because we're not doing it the persecution's coming

46:58

God's going to clean the church out from all the dross and all the crap and the l socks That are in the church l socks lying sacks of crap

47:07

And people who are l socks in the church That's right. Does my spiritual

47:12

Tourette's is bubbling? I want to start saying things, you know heretic

47:19

That's a totalist, you know, just oh, oh Okay now

47:26

So let's get into the uh, abrahamic covenant God promised a land and descendants to abraham who was commanded to keep the covenant.

47:36

This is genesis 17 9 And he was given circumcision as a covenant sign circumcision shedding of blood male representation

47:48

Now it says in genesis 12 3 in you all the nations shall be blessed

47:55

And the one of the covenant things god would do to fulfill that was to give him land

48:00

Because you have to have land to have babies on and have crops on and cattle

48:06

And so there's a sign of that covenant and that that's the covenant that has bloodshed in it

48:12

So ultimately that bloodshed points in the future to the work of christ

48:19

Who died on the cross the shedding of the blood he was male And the males are the ones who are circumcised the females are counted in the males.

48:28

It's not an issue of superiority It's an issue of position because for example

48:34

The father and the son are equal yet. Jesus is in a lesser position

48:40

But he's god in flesh And he voluntarily did this so that's another thing about what

48:46

I do if I ever teach on the on marriage But marriage really is a theology of marriage Now So in this abrahamic covenant

48:56

It's a future covenant In that in you all the nations shall be blessed

49:03

And that's quoted by paul in galatians 3 8 and he calls it the gospel So the abrahamic covenant is still in effect and notice what the sign of the covenant was the shedding of blood

49:14

Which is ratified with christ in the shedding of blood So you can see the relationships there

49:20

Let's get on to the covenant of moses and the giving of the law the nation of israel is constituted a holy nation

49:26

And i've already gone through the tablets and used the issue to show how god works covenantally

49:32

And to show that each person gets a copy of the covenant in this written form And so excuse me so Moses had wrote down everything the lord had said he got up early the next morning and built an altar at the foot of the

49:47

Mountain and set up 12 stone pillars representing the 12 tribes of israel And he sent young israelite men they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls

49:57

As fellowship offerings to the lord moses took half of the blood and put it in the bowls And the other half he sprinkled on the altar and notice the sprinkling of the altar the thing sanctified

50:09

Is sprinkled upon Okay That's just a point that as you pay attention to this kind of stuff

50:16

We'll find out That the object is anointed by god you have an anointing that you have received first john 2 27 talks about this and in joel 2 28 and 29

50:28

I think it's 20 29 It says the holy spirit will be poured forth and that's prophesied that that is fulfilled in acts 2 17 and 18 the pouring forth of the holy spirit

50:41

Coming upon the people they're anointed by the element coming upon either by pouring by sprinkling on this is the biblical pattern the biblical pattern and um

50:53

This is out of the covenant aspect So it says uh mo and this is out of i'm reading out of exodus 24 verse 8

51:00

Moses then took blood sprinkled it on the people And said this is the blood of the covenant that I the lord has made with you in accordance with all these words

51:09

Now there's another aspect the covenant documents the covenant sign and then also the blood the blood and the word go together the word jesus became flesh

51:24

To die to shed his blood The truth of who god is on the way the truth and the life the truth is blood must be shed to redeem

51:34

Okay All right And the covenant was to restrain israel from sinning let's go to the davidic covenant

51:43

God gave a promise to david that his descendants should have an everlasting kingdom and be known as his sons.

51:49

You said This is a psalm 89 verses 3 and 4 You said I have made a covenant with my chosen one.

51:55

I have sworn to david my servant I will establish your line forever and make your throne firm throughout all generations

52:03

It was through the descendants of david that jesus was born So this is a prophetic covenant and the covenant sign will be fulfilled when the covenant was fulfilled

52:13

Later on with christ shedding his blood Some covenant signs are given before The covenant and some after that in the garden of adam and eve the covenants are the trees right there before And at the end of a wedding you may know, you know put the ring on and we did that right?

52:33

And so the covenant signs there traditionally is after Or during whatever but you had different things different signs.

52:39

All right A new covenant, okay the new covenant is uh

52:54

After the time of christ there's some stuff here worth getting into God says there'll become a time when

53:02

I will make a new covenant with the house of israel in the house of judah This is jeremiah 31 31 I haven't had time recently

53:10

We're doing so much work on on the karma schools We're actually actually see that I had a tunnel we're going to be dealing with all the major upgrades and everything in about four to four months

53:23

With everything and then I can start doing other stuff Like I heard this new word vacation

53:31

And I gotta look it up people several people have said I need that but I gotta look it up, but I don't have time right now

53:39

So, um The new covenant now he says i'll make it. I'll make a new covenant with the house of israel and with the nation of judah now that's for the national israel and Ultimately is fulfilled in christ and he gave us this is the sign of the new covenant

54:00

And i'm just going to say that i'm i'm a little confused Lately on this. I just haven't solved it yet.

54:06

I haven't really got into really study it The new covenant is spoken of to that nation of israel are we then included in the new covenant?

54:14

That's the question And well, yeah, we are i'm trying to find the scriptures that declare it and I found some and So this is

54:24

This will come up later. We talk about dispensationalism It's like a progressive dispensational view where the house of israel and the church are kind of mixed

54:35

It seems to be that kind of a thing in this context And um stuff

54:48

There's just a lot. There's just a lot and i'm not I am in no way an expert on this There are experts there are people who've been studying this for 20 years.

54:56

They love covenant Anyway, I just said if I said to them come in and teach i'd say folks four weeks at least

55:02

Four weeks it's gonna take that much There's just so much to it nevertheless So, um

55:10

The new covenant I got to solve this just a question I have when I answer it We are all obviously included.

55:17

But when I look at the scriptures, it's in reference of the house of israel and Yet there's some scriptures that talk about anyone and so we'll get into that another time.

55:27

I just haven't solved yet I don't want to raise too many questions yet on that Now let's talk about the covenant of works in the covenant of grace.

55:35

I'm going to Differentiate between them compare them because it does seem like there's those two covenants at the very least

55:42

The covenant of works god is the creator and lord and he established Because of his love and his benevolence

55:50

And in the covenant of grace god is the redeemer and father established because of his mercy So the covenant of works

55:57

To adam is I love you. This is what you can do. You can stay in, you know the covenant

56:03

You'll be fine if you just do this. It's it's a loving thing The covenant of grace is you're going to be all messed up and i'm going to show you mercy and grace

56:11

Okay In the covenant of works Man appears as god's creature

56:18

Rightly related to god in the covenant of grace man appears as a sinner who has perverted his ways

56:24

It could only appear in union with christ and grace So before the fall of the covenant of works adam was able to keep stuff together

56:33

And do stuff because he was already in a right relationship with god didn't need a mediator

56:39

But we could say That the mediator of the adamant covenant was christ because we could say that because Jesus the pre -incarnate christ was the one walking in the garden

56:52

Right. We could say that I think nick turned to boy. It's getting hot in here.

56:57

Don't you think? What yeah, yeah, it's it's like 71 degrees on the thing.

57:03

Okay, so, uh So I brought this up a mediator there is no mediator in the adamant covenant but It was a pre -incarnate christ.

57:16

He's walking with him who gave him this stuff. He could say that as a mediator But there really technically was no mediator because it wasn't necessary Well, we have we have a mediators that go between between two parties

57:27

Uh, usually because there's a problem But there was no problem then so that's debatable on the issue of the mediatorship in the covenant of um works

57:36

Uh righteousness was based upon man's obedience And the covenant of grace righteousness is based upon christ's obedience

57:45

Covenant of works, uh, you can stay alive by keeping the law and in the covenant of grace you stay alive by being with christ

57:53

Now that it works, um It's partly known in nature

58:00

Because we are aware of certain things about the created order Since the law of god's written on man's heart

58:06

But the new covenant Aspect the covenant of grace is only revealed in the scriptures

58:12

So the covenant with adam Take care of the earth And don't eat of the tree.

58:18

You'll be fine Is Not a covenant of grace that has to be by revelation

58:24

The card of grace is you've sinned you're going to hell There's a redeemer.

58:29

He's going to bear your sins die on the cross rise from the dead and then You'll be saved by faith.

58:36

That's not in the covenant of works So it's not known in the covenant of works Okay Okay And in the covenant of works

58:47

God is the first of the the initiator of the contract. He's he's he initiates basically all of them anyway

58:58

All right, um So A two main covenants the parties involved in the eternal covenant is the trinity

59:12

The party involved parties involved in the covenant of grace Is god and man but two so god and us

59:21

Uh the promise in the eternal covenant promissory Things prepare a son for a body with a body and i've got all those scripture references here

59:30

Give the son the spirit without measure always support and comfort the son

59:36

Deliver the son from the power of death Bring to the son all whom the father had given to him give the son a number of redeem that no one could number

59:44

This is the covenant promises in the eternal covenant in the covenant of grace eternal life for mankind and uh, the promise is uh restoration of fellowship with god based upon the work of christ the condition in the eternal covenant

01:00:02

Both of them eternal covenant and the covenant of grace rest in christ Because the eternal covenant is made possible only through the eternal sonship of christ

01:00:13

Who would become one of us in order for the eternal covenant to to exist? And the covenant of grace the same thing he has to become the one by whom the grace is manifested so that we can be redeemed so the covenant, uh required and you could really kind of say, uh, both

01:00:31

Categories was to assume human nature made under the law and to bear our sins All right

01:00:41

The mediator of the covenant new covenant of course of jesus And let's see.

01:00:46

Um So let's summarize some of these covenant aspects here

01:00:54

You have we've gone over the adamic noahic abrahamic asciniatic the mosaic, um

01:01:01

Which is all called cineatic sinai davidic and the new covenant in the adamic covenant god and Part god and man are the ones involved the noahic covenant.

01:01:11

It's god and noah and if I proxy his descendants The abrahamic covenant it's god and abraham with his descendants

01:01:19

With the cineatic, uh moses david and the israelites at mount sinai

01:01:26

Davidic is god in david and the new covenant is a god in the elect I had this nice chart

01:01:32

I did years ago on this And uh, there's promises there's conditions there's signs and seal let's go to the signs and seals

01:01:40

The adamic covenant the sign of the seal was the tree the tree And no noah's time it was the rainbow in abraham with the abrahamic covenant the circumcision was the sign

01:01:55

And cineatic it was the tablets which represented the covenant and the covenant's seal was the setting of the blood exodus 24

01:02:04

As he sprinkled on the people the davidic covenant was none didn't have one because it was to be fulfilled in christ

01:02:12

And the new covenant is the blood of christ Uh as a baptism is a sign to get in and the lord supper is the participant participatory covenant sign all right

01:02:25

That is a an intro Entry level entry level into covenant

01:02:31

That is really an entry level There are books like this on covenant

01:02:38

And they just go on and on and then you get a second book on covenant And you go well half of this belongs with that other half

01:02:45

And you know it goes on and on and on but covenant is important I believe that if we understand covenant

01:02:55

And one of the things I didn't bring up in covenant why covenant is so important is because It's based on one's word

01:03:03

What what somebody says? That's it The eternal covenant is promissory You commit yourself by your verbal affirmation

01:03:12

Marriage covenant is a good example I verbally committed myself before god before people and before my wife

01:03:20

To to be married to her And I just forgot my point dang

01:03:29

I hate that brain's fried What I just say

01:03:34

I brought that up for a reason doesn't matter Word thank you very much because god

01:03:42

What he says occurs and speech is a like an attribute of his essence So he commits himself

01:03:50

Verbally, i'm going to say verbally in the inner trinity industry Trinitarian communion because I don't know how they communicated but there was a communication going on And so they committed and we'll just use the analogy verbally by their word or expression to commit

01:04:07

This is what marriage is. This is what a lot of things are we are committing. We write down our commitments on paper

01:04:13

It's by verbal uh thing we are admitting. So what god has done Is Committed himself by his own word to be faithful to us and to never lose any

01:04:25

We are secure in christ God doesn't make any mistakes. Even though some people think we can lose our salvation.

01:04:32

It's up to you and your goodness Good luck with that Good luck with that So that's one of the aspects of the covenant now

01:04:41

We're going to get into dispensationalism a little bit, but I want to talk about the Aspect of covenant so I was going to do it today just to remind myself that I forgot but um

01:04:50

The word covenant occurs like 70 80 90 times in the in the bible the word dispensation doesn't

01:04:59

But I think the king james has a word dispensation in it where they translate it into the english In the greek it comes from the word oikonomia economy and household relationship

01:05:11

And So what dispensation is is generally

01:05:17

A time period that god will work within that he does things differently here

01:05:23

Versus the next period of time versus the next period of time Now there is a sense in which some dispensational ideas can blend over with covenant and vice versa

01:05:34

I'm going to do now Get a little more covenant I mean with uh dispensation Now just because the word covenant occurs

01:05:46

Tens of times And dispensation virtually does not does not mean that one is superior to the other one is right one is wrong

01:05:55

We don't make a doctrine out of how many times a word appears. Okay. It's what is said because it could say

01:06:02

Theoretically, you could say covenant appears, you know 50 times. That's why it's true But it could be what if it said every single time it appears it's it's condemning it

01:06:09

You know, so context is always a thing So Dispensationalism is the theological view that god works

01:06:20

Through Time in different periods in different ways the most common number of covenants is seven

01:06:29

And there's worded slightly different but uh innocence Which is the creation of adam to the fall that's the dispensation of innocence they were innocent

01:06:42

Conscience that is from the fall to noah's flood And um

01:06:49

Some other let's see. I got another where they word that or did I delete that when I Let's see.

01:06:56

Yes, uh Conscience that's from genesis 3 to genesis 8 actually I'm, not sure why they get that but they become aware of what's right and wrong.

01:07:05

The law is not given yet And then genesis 9 to 11 is that is a civil government or human government as another

01:07:13

Commentator put it And then you have the dispensation of the promise. It's promissory god's going to do this.

01:07:19

He's going to do that from abraham to moses And the giving of the law and then the dispensation of the law now god works with us through the law

01:07:28

And that's exodus 20 through acts 2 verse 4. I just don't buy this.

01:07:36

Sorry. I don't and um the covenant of grace that's from the time of the cross to the millennial reign of christ

01:07:45

And then the millennial kingdom a literal thousand -year reign Dispensationalists are premillennialists

01:07:53

Dispensationalists are premillennialists if there's any exceptions to that. I don't know of them Maybe it could happen but it's like 99 .9

01:08:01

of dispees are premillennialists all the way and I have some friends who are dispees andrew rapaport who

01:08:10

I mock Occasionally he mocks me too And we're friends. Um He's a he's a dispensationalist

01:08:19

And he's premillennial and when I show him stuff for omil He just won't accept it and um

01:08:28

Anyway Love you andrew but uh

01:08:34

The dispensationalists in my opinion what they're doing is looking at the scriptures. They're not being malicious

01:08:40

They're not being sinful, but they're looking at the word of god And they're saying look there's got to be seven dispensations because seven's a special number.

01:08:49

So let's make it fit Let's make this work. That's what I think they're doing I Think what they should do is abandon that and go with covenant because god works covenantally.

01:09:00

That is obvious It's promissory on his word now, for example, they're going to say that the covenant of grace is for the time of the cross to the

01:09:09

Time of the millennial reign. Well, that's not true Covenant of grace is from adam on at the very least

01:09:17

If not even before that it comes up to what are we defining as grace the unmerited kindness and favor of god

01:09:23

Then it was bestowed to adam It was bestowed to uh cain It was well.

01:09:30

No, no grace has to mean from the time of the cross, you know, that's the that's when it really occurred Well, that's not exactly true.

01:09:38

And so I have problems with dispensationalism because of this kind of a thing Now they're gonna they're not going to say though.

01:09:43

There's no grace of god in the old testament That god was gracious, you know, they'll say that And they'll say yeah, he works covenantally but they just Bunch everything into basically seven sometimes five sometimes four sometimes three covenants

01:10:02

Um So there are some essential aspects of dispensate of uh, yeah dispensationalism

01:10:10

A distinction between israel and the church And I basically I agree with that i'm a covenantalist

01:10:17

So I agree. There's a distinction between israel and the church, but I also believe that there's a blending of israel in the church

01:10:25

Okay Jesus is the blending. Yeah, that's where that's right. That's in the gospel.

01:10:32

Yeah, and uh Yeah, okay another one here is uh, they i'd love this one

01:10:41

They say we hold to a literal interpretation of the scripture I've had people say to me you're an all -millennialist.

01:10:47

Yeah. Well, we hold to a literal interpretation And I say really that's sort of why that's why i'm an all -millennialist

01:10:54

And they say no you're figurative I said no i'm not And they say is a thousand years literal or figurative.

01:11:00

I say oh it's figurative They say see I go. Well, wait a minute. Let's go to revelation 20, you know

01:11:06

I saw an angel come down out of heaven with you know, was that a literal? Oh, that's literal see with a key in his hand and a chain in his hand.

01:11:13

Was that literal or figurative? It's a literal representation of something figurative Come on, and this is what

01:11:21

I get. Okay And so I go. Yeah, so the literal chain. Sure. It was literal, but it really wasn't a literal chain was a representation

01:11:30

So When I showed them literal things about other aspects like satan being bound in matthew 12 22 to 32

01:11:38

Because jesus is casting out demons Right casting out demons And uh, he says in order to do this the strong man's got to be first be bound.

01:11:46

So I take it literally he's bound That's why i'm almost i'm ill it supports it Well, no, it doesn't mean he's literally

01:11:53

You know, so we get into this stuff and number three the glory of god is the underlying purpose of god in history

01:12:00

I have no problem with that one the underlying purpose of god the glory of god. I I like that. Okay another

01:12:06

Uh view is uh essentials Different senses of terms like jews and the seed of abraham different they mean different things

01:12:18

We're not getting into all this. There's this is whole course work. We can do a whole course on this A hermeneutic in which the new testament reaffirms and does not reinterpret the old testament.

01:12:27

No, I I disagree with that It is the new testament that interprets the old whenever the new testament quotes something that this is a fulfillment now

01:12:35

You know what this is Unconditional promises to national israel and the old testament must be fulfilled with natural israel national.

01:12:44

I kind of agree with that myself That's just me Uh a distinctive future of israel.

01:12:50

I believe that you go to romans 11 26 for that the church as a distinctive organism I have no problem with that either number six a philosophy of history in which the

01:13:00

History is gradual is the gradual implementation and working of the kingdom of god. I don't have a problem with that either um

01:13:09

And what they'll often do is talk about the the age of the gentiles or the time of the gentiles

01:13:14

And this is what jesus said in luke 21 24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and will lead be led captive into all the nations and jerusalem will be trampled underfoot

01:13:25

By the gentiles until the time of the gentiles are fulfilled But what is the time of the gentiles that's another study

01:13:35

Um, they like I said, they'll they say that the church began in the book of acts So let's just stop here for a minute and just talk about this a little bit

01:13:44

It all depends on definitions so What are some definitions of the church?

01:13:54

The elect the called out ones Okay Well, if that's the case

01:14:00

Then the church began in the mind of god in the eternal covenant and Adam who had his was covered with the blood of you know

01:14:10

Animal skins when pre -incarnate christ we could say he was part of the church because he was redeemed He was covered by the sacrificial work of pre -incarnate christ

01:14:19

Okay Well another definition of of the church could be that thing that began when the holy spirit anointed them after After the fulfillment of the holy spirit's work and after christ was crucified

01:14:32

Is that a legitimate definition Yeah, it's legitimate because there's a lot of evidence that that new testament church began

01:14:41

In the new testament. That's why they call it the new testament church And that makes sense because it's promised in the old and fulfilled in the new

01:14:50

So if we were to use that definition, then the disputes have got it, right? If we say covenantal

01:14:57

Church that we could say well we recognize that there was a definite beginning of the formal

01:15:03

Visible church on earth in that ecclesiastical sense in x2 But we also know that the elect the called ones who are part of the church, which is the chosen the invisible church

01:15:15

Began thousands of years ago And that's legitimate too. So which one's the right one?

01:15:21

That's a good question A dispute is going to say well obviously x2 and a covenantalist would lean towards um the older aspect of the old testament

01:15:33

And there's strengths and weaknesses for both sides. There are strengths and weaknesses for both sides Just so you know, this is not just a matt can settle it in 20, you know 20 sentences thing

01:15:43

It's not like that. There are good arguments and good issues for both sides There really are just trying to be fair But i'm a covenantalist and i'm always going to be one

01:15:53

And they're premillennial and they're mostly um pre -trib rapture Mostly pre -trib rapture, which

01:16:00

I love to to poke at poke it with little things. I know that's the american way to poke

01:16:07

To be pre -trib rapture Which reminds me the reason the dispensationalist view in my opinion

01:16:14

Became so dominant was because it was started by darby in the 1800s and then it was uh

01:16:20

Written into the schofield reference bible, which was disseminated as a study bible and then people just started buying into it

01:16:27

And personally, I believe this is going to offend some people. I believe that the more theologically astute you are

01:16:34

The more reformed you're going to be in covenantal. You're going to be that's my opinion. That's what I believe I do

01:16:40

I believe that and uh people are right now, you know him and hawing and and uh doing the equivalent of the reformed butt shuffle

01:16:49

And uh the armenian butt shuffle, uh, see the reformed by shuffle goes like this But the armenian shuffle goes like this

01:16:59

Just a different direction That's all Yeah, we go the reformed by shovel goes to the right and the armenians go to the left

01:17:10

Well, it's right it has to be the right one because that's right one's a biblical one that's that's the right one

01:17:17

Left -handed person's just wrong. That's right. Excuse me I Just said a whole whole bunch of people for no no reason that necessary so, um

01:17:37

We had slap The first time I saw the reformed butt shuffle and then we'll get into some more stuff here

01:17:42

Was when I was a assistant pastor at a church in ontario California to reform church full of dutch people and I had a lapel mic right here like and I was standing up You know preaching on sunday night and I just had a cough

01:17:54

I just coughed and I went like this as a habit to cough this way instead of spread it that way I wanted to go down And I coughed right in the mic and the speakers in the ceiling and it just sounded like god coughed

01:18:04

I mean, that's what it sounded like and so I actually said I sounded like god just coughed and then I saw everybody go

01:18:13

And it was in unison and you could hear the fabric against the fabric, you know, it was this

01:18:20

And I went i'm in trouble They they talked about we don't make jokes about god. Okay.

01:18:26

Sorry That's the first Well, it's something god could talk you can't do that That was the first time

01:18:37

I saw the reform. I'm serious. It was like Like 200 people how they do that Okay So, um, let's talk about the three main types

01:18:53

Of uh Dispensationalism and then we'll kind of end with that. Okay And this is low level.

01:19:00

This is entry level. Remember this is entry level, but there's still a lot here So there's classical revised and progressive dispensationalism

01:19:09

Just as there are different aspects within covenantal theology There are aspects within dispensationalism

01:19:17

So, um in classical Dispensationalism, there's seven dispensations

01:19:23

In revised there's four or more and in progressive there's three or more

01:19:30

So you can tell even among the revised and the progressives there's variations That's okay

01:19:39

So in the classical there's Davidic Which is the future covenant and two new covenants revised.

01:19:47

There's One new covenant and in progressive uh The davidic covenant is present and a new covenant

01:19:56

But in revised the davidic covenant is future with a new covenant Don't don't even try to remember all this stuff to comprehend.

01:20:04

Okay um And the people in the classic dispensational view

01:20:11

There are two separate programs one for israel one for the church in revised the uh

01:20:18

The heavenly and earthly distinctions are blended. They're not as distinct

01:20:25

And between the church and israel and then they're progressive Uh, it's one people the church continues, uh

01:20:33

With israel until israel believes they were together Uh that gets into the believers of the 70th week the church age

01:20:43

Uh Postponement theory the kingdom theory the spiritual spirit during the tribulation.

01:20:48

Let's do that one Classical dispensationalism the spirit is absent and not indwelling anybody during a tribulation period

01:20:58

Can you say that again, please? Yeah, I don't like that either classical says a spirit pre -tribulation rapture

01:21:05

The holy spirit is in the church. The church gets raptured. The spirit's not here That's the view

01:21:13

Okay, okay I don't like that. It's highly problematic highly Especially since the wicked are taken first out of matthew 13 30.

01:21:22

You got problems. They got problems. Do you know what their foundation is for that? the book of moronicals um

01:21:30

Sorry, but I should Well, they they have their their reasons they just go pre -trib

01:21:36

In fact if you guys heard two weeks ago, there were two women who called up on the radio show very pre -trib rapture ish

01:21:43

You guys hear that at all? I did a little bit. Yeah, and uh, there's one woman Wouldn't listen.

01:21:49

No, I'd say well, what about this? He ignored it when it's something else. He should argue that way. No debate

01:21:54

No, nothing. Yeah, just all right boy. You're wrong. Go on. Yeah, and and it was what about this verse here? But she did say at one point when

01:22:01

I brought up matthew 13 30. She said that's an interesting point I would think about that. Okay, that's fair But um, yeah i've met uh pre -tribbers who uh

01:22:11

I'm serious. I well, where's the verses and it's just I just don't see it in scripture I just don't see it. But that's another

01:22:17

I can whine about that some more other time. Um, But uh during the tribulation period the revised dispensationalist will say the holy spirit's present but he's not indwelling anybody

01:22:30

Well, then what's he doing? I don't know just hanging out convicting people kind of working trying to get people to say but they don't really

01:22:36

Uh, they don't really believe or they do believe but they're not indwelt And then um and progressive during the tribulation period

01:22:47

He's present and indwelling people And sermon on the mount has millennial principles according to the classical the revised present ethics while anticipating the coming kingdom and uh

01:23:02

Progressive present ethics while anticipating the coming kingdom as well A covenantalist would say we're not kingdom of god is is covenantally based

01:23:11

And the covenant requirements are here Jesus says he'll take the wicked out of his kingdom And the satan must be bound which is now.

01:23:19

Well, I think he's letting let loose. We should study eschatology sometime Go through stuff. Uh So, uh, let me just say there's just There's a lot

01:23:32

That This is not going to be settled And the reason it's not going to be settled Is because the bible can be interpreted for both sets

01:23:43

And if you have a kind of a first Introduction into one or the other you tend to kind of go with that And When I was younger theologically,

01:23:54

I was uh dispensational I didn't know I was but I believed in this because all I knew it's all

01:23:59

I was taught When I started studying the bible and i'm not saying if you're dispensationalist

01:24:04

You don't you started the bible. You don't believe like me. You're stupid not saying that but when I started studying the bible I started going.

01:24:10

Wait a minute. That doesn't make sense to me. There's this dispensational view and um You know,

01:24:15

I went to calvary chapel pre -trib rapture pre -millennialism And during this time of going there

01:24:21

I converted to covenantalism and believed in and then later on millennialism actually

01:24:29

I Remember the moment when I converted to amillennialism because someone showed me two verses in the bible I was converted and have not looked back since Huh?

01:24:40

First thessalonians 4 16 through chapter 5 verse 2. It's a pericope two pericopes is what I should say And the day the lord comes like a thief in the night

01:24:47

It's a rapture day the lord comes like a thief in the night new heavens and new earth And that's uh, second peter 3 10

01:24:54

That's it. There's no literal thousand year reign that happens at the same time bang Amill from then on and i've not been able to shake it

01:25:05

What guy what book I know by guy what A millennialism. Oh kim riddleberger.

01:25:11

Thank you. Okay. He does that's good Yeah, in fact, I used to go over kim's house in southern california

01:25:17

Uh, there'd be other bible study people and then i'd go over his house. Sometimes we would talk theology for a while and so stuff like that, but um

01:25:27

Maybe we should do eschatology sometime if you guys want and that'll be interesting but uh

01:25:33

So covenant is a very deep topic and dispensationalism is also a very deep topic And we can't just dismiss one or the other in light of one or the other

01:25:42

We're going to show respect for both sides In fact andrew and I we've done seminars together and what people like to see us do is argue

01:25:51

Covenantalism versus Dispensationalism and we're so polite about how we do it

01:25:56

That it's actually turned into a couple of times where i've argued his position for him And he's argued my position for me and People have commented afterwards that they love to see people of opposing views get along so well

01:26:08

And we insult each other while we're up there in front of people. Well, if you were smart like me andrew you'd understand this and uh people get a kick out of that and They'll come back with something so, you know, it's a healthy difference there

01:26:21

And uh, I would say dispensationally we are in the age of the distance of the erring

01:26:27

Dispensationalists, we are in the dispensation of the erring dispensationalists.

01:26:33

That's what I would say that they don't get it So like i'm a dispensationalist In that sense what's that?

01:26:41

Then there's eight well, there'd be one big overarching the age the error of dispensationalism

01:26:46

Which covers all of them Is what the age is that would be it? So i'm gonna just i'm a true dispensationalist

01:26:53

That's it Say that Anyway guys got any comments or questions even in the chat room.

01:27:02

Let's see. Okay Scriptural proof.

01:27:07

Oh, there's charlie doing stuff poor charlie. He's gonna I say stuff and he's got to put all these things that he's going to know my website better than me

01:27:15

I got a verse here got a verse there put this in What was it interesting yes informative

01:27:23

One of your programs you were talking about satan being bound Yeah, satan's bound.

01:27:30

You know went back to a greek word Indicating what bound actually? Oh that was in second thessalonians 2

01:27:37

When one who restrains is taken out of the way and uh And I went through recently and looked at it again.

01:27:45

I forgot what the word was But uh, the word does not mean removed It means that the ability to restrain you're there if i'm restraining somebody

01:27:54

I have to be there to restrain them To the presence and so it's like the restrainer is removed

01:28:01

Or the restrainer stops restraining. That's what the greek gets to that.

01:28:07

It's like someone in a doorway and allows passage But he's still there.

01:28:13

That's what the implication of the greek was In second thessalonians 2 because of this piece the pre millers and pre whatever's will say that the church has to be raptured

01:28:23

And then you have seven years of stuff And because that's when satan's going to be found in the later thousand years and um

01:28:35

And so out of second thessalonians 2 what they're going to say is that when the church is gone

01:28:40

The one who restrains the holy spirit is taken away. See makes perfect sense and it does

01:28:45

Make perfect sense and that's all you had But it's not all you have

01:28:51

In fact I have not told this story for probably 25 30 years

01:28:57

But real briefly before anika and I got married sunlight christian center At the chapman traffic circle in third california chapman

01:29:08

Off just to the uh west of the 55 freeway sunlight christian center and uh

01:29:15

They were They were pre -trip rapture people And the pastor joe magliotto

01:29:22

Asked dave kimball my roommate and I and I forgot it was somebody else. I think it was a third person.

01:29:27

It's been so long Asked to do a debate on the pre -trip versus post -trip rapture

01:29:35

And the church was a converted theater So it had this great stage

01:29:41

And all these seats and the whole bed and we said sure we do that and the goal was not to win or lose

01:29:48

The goal was just to show different sides and be real amiable and we said we agree to that. That's not a problem

01:29:54

We'll be at fisticuffs so He got I think it was three and three Yeah, i'm pretty sure

01:30:00

I thought who the third person was but at any rate maybe it was even charlie I don't remember. Maybe charlie's going with me. I don't know but um

01:30:07

So we all six met In order to map out the debate so that the people could be, um blessed by it

01:30:16

And what happened? During that preparation time. We kept saying to them.

01:30:21

You don't want to use that one That's not a good argument. Here's why And we can't use that because it doesn't you know, we're trying to help them out if you go there

01:30:29

It's not going to work for you, you know, they call something better. Okay, so we're actually trying to help them and they actually realized that um

01:30:38

They go my goodness, this is going to be easy and what was difficult was us actually maintaining a debate

01:30:45

That had debate elements where they didn't get their clocks cleaned And so on the stage when we did it, um

01:30:54

There were lots of things that we didn't say that we could have said And we were trying to be merciful, but i'm not trying to brag.

01:31:01

It just was You know that they say well it's appointed to god. God's appointed us not to wrath but salvation see that's a tribulation

01:31:07

No, it's a it's about Damnation and salvation read the context, you know Well, okay.

01:31:13

Well, you know two men in the field one is taken one is left. That's the wicked who were taken It was just because if they were to say that we're going to come back with that, you know

01:31:21

And so that we really had trouble Having this debate and having it work and be a debate, but we did and it worked out people

01:31:31

People actually said you guys won, but i'm still pre -trip Okay And we tried not to win we actually tried not to win

01:31:41

We had people come up you yeah you you guys, you know, you know your stuff better and you know Not an issue of knowing it better.

01:31:47

It's just you read you just just So anyway, if you're pre -trip rapture, sorry, you have my sympathies

01:31:57

I know people are going man. This guy's arrogant. That's true That is true What's that?

01:32:04

Oh, there's a shuffle Okay, we need to do a pre -trip shuffle a pre -trip versus post -trip shuffle instead of going left and right it's probably something like I think that might be a little scoot

01:32:18

He's a graceful cat Yeah until You have got

01:32:25

Okay, let's get him down because yeah, he'll move He'll move again later He's got to be where the people are.

01:32:31

He's just such a He's such a good kid Yeah, we call him kittler All right kittler

01:32:40

Kittler kittler here. I'll show you why here's the mustache see kittler See mustache and the hair part

01:32:48

So we call him kittler All right, everybody in the chat room have any questions? And do you like this format with the phone

01:32:56

Instead of the big camera from across the room and everything and does it sound good and all that kind of stuff Okay New comments, let's see

01:33:06

There we go Post your questions here. There you go What do you guys want to study next week while they're waiting?

01:33:17

Next week. Oh, I will be here next week I'm not going to the ufo convention.

01:33:23

Oh, um, i'm going to go down to down to salt lake city I plan to be back tuesday night or wednesday I look at that ufo convention.

01:33:30

That looks what's that that ufo convention looks fun Yeah, but I didn't go by myself, you know

01:33:37

Because it's five and a half hours to get where i'm staying in salt lake another seven and a half to eight hour drive down there

01:33:42

And it's just a lot for a bit my you know Just tell your wife to put off the delivery for a week

01:33:53

Yeah Another good smart statement from matt slick. That's right questions about the honoring your parents honoring your parents.

01:34:00

Okay Let me see if I can get one of these questions for run don't walk for From brannum.

01:34:06

That's right. Charlie. Uh, brannum is a heretic absolute heretic. Okay, which I said was meaning could we do us?

01:34:12

Could you do a study on that on what on honoring your parents? And yeah, just do whatever they say next

01:34:21

It wouldn't be a very long study but yeah what it means to honor in different situations, right? It's a difficult thing to do and implications of not honoring them.

01:34:28

And what does that mean? Can you not honor? Yes, you can If they were to ask you to disobey god, you don't honor them.

01:34:36

You don't do what they say It was it means to honor so respect and um You know honor your mother your father, uh, for example,

01:34:43

I remember my dad he retired and he had different incomes from the air force from a Job he had and he had he had money not a lot but you know, he had money and he had possessions

01:34:55

And um a lot of times what children want to do is get their hands on their parents money their parents possessions, right

01:35:01

That's not honoring them And so I told my dad I said dad look if you want you liquidate everything

01:35:10

And if you want to take it out and and do a bonfire with all your cash. Hey, i'll help you out I don't care. I don't need what you've got.

01:35:16

I don't I don't I don't need to have it I'm, not looking to get something when you're gone. I just don't that's not my thing

01:35:23

And we have two brothers. I have two brothers and all three of us had the same attitude Well, we're honoring him in that sense by showing that respect of who he is what he earned is his

01:35:34

And i'm not to dishonor him by saying I want what you can give me Which is a form of dishonoring

01:35:39

So we're to revere our mom and dads our parents in the sense of showing respect to them when we can and You know, my dad would would ask me to do something.

01:35:50

Okay, dad, you know, let's go do it most of the time You know or you know and to not speak ill about them

01:35:57

Uh is a way of honoring them as well And I you know It's not to say you can't say that my mom and dad did something bad

01:36:03

Here's an instance that i've learned from this kind of a thing but Generally, it means to show respect to them to not talk about them behind their back uh to You know pray for them to uh do what they say to a point you know because If you're you're 60 years old your 90 year old dad's still alive.

01:36:25

He goes. This is what I want you to do Okay, what do you what do you got? You know, uh, I want you to sell all your cars and all your house and I want you to you know, okay

01:36:33

What? We have a problem But if he says I want you to treat your wife better Okay, you know because of course and things like that you see if I have to So if you don't do that, then what happens?

01:36:47

Uh, depending on the level and the extent god says, uh You know your days will be uh increased if you honor them

01:36:54

And I think a lot of what that also includes is listening to their wisdom and their advice I think it's really where a lot of it's coming from but if you show disrespect to them, uh, there's actually um

01:37:03

If you curse your mother and your father you could be killed for it in the old testament So they had that place of authority and that you showed that respect to them

01:37:13

In that sense you did not disrespect them you honored them But you drew the line when they would ask you to do something that was wrong

01:37:21

That's basically it's it just to get getting a bunch of different examples of what that is and then working through a few of them, but that's

01:37:28

What it is. I didn't honor my mom and dad very much sometimes Because especially when

01:37:34

I had to jump out a window once my dad was coming after me But I deserved it.

01:37:39

Oh, yeah Yeah, i'm the small one in the family Okay, and i'm six feet tall 220 some odd pounds i'm the small one and my dad was six four and uh

01:37:51

So I I jumped out of a window once I I deserved it

01:37:58

But he was cool, you know, uh afterwards we you know, whatever Honor mom and dad.

01:38:04

Okay What nick what there's a question in the chat? Okay.

01:38:09

What's the question? Let's see. Uh You can't rediscover something that was never there.

01:38:15

Give me Can you give a brief overview of? A brief overview of all millennialism.

01:38:23

Thanks, hon. My wife's are you on the guys are on the phone and the other How do you get in there? How'd she know that?

01:38:30

How'd she do? How could you get in there? It's technical She knows how to look at her phone

01:38:40

Yes Yes, you're all going oh, how's that guy live in that house? Um, okay a brief overview of all millennialism would be that um,

01:38:49

The millennial reign of christ is not a literal thousand years, but it's a figurative period of time God owns the cattle on a thousand hills a day's a thousand years a thousand years is but a day

01:38:59

The word thousand by itself is used very often in a figurative context not always But it's very often in figurative context particularly in revelation 20

01:39:08

I saw an angel coming down from heaven with a key to the abyss And a great chain in his hand.

01:39:13

Well, those are obviously Literal and figurative an angel out of heaven literal a key and a chain

01:39:19

Those are figurative. They're not having a literal metal chain a literal metal key that he's got out of heaven.

01:39:25

It's not happening And he laid hold of the dragon. That's a Figurative The serpent of old that's literal and bounding for a thousand years

01:39:36

So which part of the thousand is figurative and literal? I mean, what does it fit into the whole point is that it's a figurative context

01:39:43

And also in our millennialism, we would say that we're in the kingdom of god now Because jesus said in matthew 12 22 to 32 that satan was bound

01:39:52

Which is what the millennial people say he has to be bound What gets me is he said he was bound in matthew 12 22 to 30 said it

01:39:59

In order to cast out demons. He's got to bind him first bind the strongman and he's bound. He's doing it and then um

01:40:06

In matthew 13 The first one's taken at the coming of christ are the wicked not the good and What it says in in roughly verse 40 of matthew 13 is that jesus says he will take

01:40:19

God will take out of his kingdom all stumbling blocks out of his kingdom

01:40:25

Well, that means they had to be in the kingdom here. This is the kingdom of christ Now people say well then why are things so bad?

01:40:34

It's bad because the christians aren't behaving As though the lord jesus is their king in this world and doing what's necessary according to the covenant requirements of the new covenant

01:40:46

They're not doing what they got to do You know Just get on that one

01:40:52

Okay, and so uh some view that satan has some amillennialists Will say that satan has been released and I lean towards that view

01:41:02

Because it says when he's released he will gather the nations to war We've seen world war one world war two multiple wars lately

01:41:11

Famines earthquakes now. There's always been famines and earthquakes, but they statistically are really on the rise and so That's why some amillennialists

01:41:22

Suspect that satan was released a hundred issues. So 200 years years ago. We don't know but that's just an idea

01:41:29

And it is bring the nations to war And that we're in that kingdom reign of christ. I believe we are

01:41:35

I believe we're on the kingdom reign of christ I believe we have great power great authority as christians

01:41:40

I believe that the christian church if it were to start acting like this and start teaching the mamby pamby else

01:41:46

Crap that are taught in church And start teaching covenantalism start teaching election predestination

01:41:52

Partisan the sovereignty of god the security that we have in christ and the authority that we have in christ

01:41:58

Then I believe that that we could change the world we get on our knees and start praying and asking god to send us

01:42:03

And go out and take risks knowing that god is always behind us and if we're going to behave covenantally

01:42:08

According to what god has already said we're supposed to be doing that He's going to bless us in the effort instead of saying, you know,

01:42:14

I want to get teachers that tickle my ears I'll send in my 25 bucks and get that little key chain with the urn and some of them stones on it

01:42:22

Have been blessed by pastor. So -and -so reverend. So -and -so and i'll put it on my keychain because that's going to help me or Miracle water miracle water from the

01:42:32

Place of jerusalem or whatever we brought shipped some water over and put little drops in each one of these and whatever Here's miracle anointing oil, you know

01:42:41

You get this oil and you put it on whatever you hurt and like this and you and you claim your victory just Miracle snake oil.

01:42:50

Yeah Came out with this like different inspirational message. Oh, yes

01:42:57

Yes, I saw that Yeah, and then things don't work because you didn't confess some sin you had right you're not cured because you didn't do something

01:43:06

Because you didn't do it, right? Yeah So much heresy what I told you

01:43:14

My wife is blind. Yeah, we're going to a particular church at the time

01:43:21

Okay I told her in that church That she was going blind

01:43:27

And it was her fault. Oh brother It was because she was not living right, yeah, right

01:43:34

And uh, yeah, we left Interested in this man or his parents Right That's the same thing.

01:43:42

Well get this and long in these lines. We're really tangenting out But I was talking to a guy in escondido, california before we moved up here and uh

01:43:51

He's he was into that camp He was into that camp that said no no sickness.

01:43:56

No death. No anything. No no sickness like that And I showed him exodus 4 11 Because in there moses says, you know,

01:44:04

I can't go to pharaoh You know, i'm not a good speaker and god says who makes the eye blind who makes the ear deaf who makes the tongue dumb

01:44:10

Is it not? I the lord. That's what he says. So i'm the one in control. So you go So I showed this verse to my friend stan

01:44:20

I can still remember sitting in his apartment staring at him while he read this verse for a full minute

01:44:27

And then he said to me I don't know what it means, but it doesn't mean what it says

01:44:35

It doesn't make any sense, okay, I don't know what it means but it doesn't mean what it says

01:44:43

It was a perfect thing perfect it's a t -shirt I don't know what it means, but doesn't mean what it says, you know mormonism, you know, atheism democrats constitutional democratic, whatever

01:44:52

Okay, let's see For an expanded look at the topic. Okay. Any other questions?

01:44:57

You got another one neek? I got a weird question. What are some differences between the dispensationalism you just talked about and mormon dispensationalism and mormon dispensationalism

01:45:08

Oh, that's a good one. I think uh here we're in the dispensation of the fullness of times just yeah ushered it in the first Dispensation began with adam adam was a prophet first one that we know we are his descendants.

01:45:21

Yeah We have an ex -mormon here is that you remember the song sing it let's hear it

01:45:28

Follow the prophet. Yeah, that's like the fourth verse. I think follow the prophet. Yes, and I follow jesus follow the prophet the teaching is that there was um dispensations beginning with adam is the first prophet every dispensation begins with a prophet where The revelation of god is given through that prophet for that time period and then there's an apostasy

01:45:50

Um, and then the second dispensation would be with enoch. Um, and that one wow,

01:45:56

I didn't know this is good Carried up into heaven the whole city was yes the whole city of enoch city of enoch.

01:46:03

I missed it. I didn't know that um, and then was uh Noah, um, and they go to abraham moses um

01:46:17

I don't think they do david with his own. They may do david with his own. It's been a while They don't like david jesus brought in a dispensation

01:46:26

And then there was the great apostasy and because of how great the dispensation jesus brought

01:46:31

How great was the fall of that great apostasy and that apostasy is kind of foundational

01:46:37

To mormonism if you believe that jesus brought that kingdom Um the omni perspective the davidic kingdom that jesus brought the everlasting kingdom that would never be taken from the face of the earth

01:46:47

It kind of destroys mormonisms Foundation of that and then they would say we're in the last dispensation the dispensation of fullness of times that joseph smith ushered in The last prophet.

01:47:00

Yeah. Oh good stuff. I didn't know that stuff, but not really the last one Right. No. Well, there's another thousand year period coming well

01:47:09

Well, yes, but there's multiple prophets in this dispensation and dispensation isn't limited to a single person a single prophet necessarily

01:47:17

The last dispensation, it's just a time. Yeah Donald you've been out of mormonism Um five years five years now

01:47:26

Praise god. Oh, yeah, he's come a long way. We've known each other. Yeah That long four years five years.

01:47:33

I think I met you. Uh a year a year or something

01:47:40

But Yeah, I remember I read his word in the gospel, um is found in the bible read the new testament

01:47:49

Yeah, there you go. That's right in the new testament read it. That's right All right anything else let's see.

01:47:57

Oh i've got i'm gonna hit this here new comments, uh Okay, I don't see anything any other questions nick

01:48:12

You don't remember Okay, so what do you guys want to study next week,

01:48:18

I mean you mentioned eschatology um

01:48:25

Postmillennialism pre -millennialism guys want to go over eschatology I'm here for whatever you're waiting for whatever.

01:48:33

What do you what do you want to do? That sounds good Dave Yeah, that's fun.

01:48:39

Yeah, don't you want a calvinism? We can go out to us you and I could do a special lunch we'll just talk calvinism

01:48:52

Cigars whiskey Cigars whiskey and then talk theology Talk calvinism, but you gotta grow your beard out.

01:49:01

I I if I grow my beard out no smooching No, i'm

01:49:08

I say that for my wife to hear like I had a goatee a while back what A fake one, that's right.

01:49:21

Get a fake beard And then the guard we can talk theology. Yeah, well that was behind here Yeah, because I had a goatee and then that cut that was a significant reduction in smooching

01:49:32

So, uh gotta have the smooches I got a great goatee and yeah, my kids.

01:49:38

No one people liked it. My grandkids really your wife didn't like it Yeah My stepmom didn't like it.

01:49:45

What is with women? It's more masculine I'm, she likes mine. She likes yours.

01:49:50

Oh, you got a good looking beard. Yeah, you have a good looking beard Mine looks like a scraggly little wet dog Yeah, they're hiding something what is that oh the people behind visually are hiding something

01:50:05

He doesn't have it up top she's got it here that looks good on him though, that's right It looks good

01:50:17

It's good, okay, let's see I guess that's it match.

01:50:23

Look can't grow a beard. Yes, I can I I can But my wife, you know the smooching goes down.

01:50:30

That's it Is there a question I have to look up the passage you may know it offhand.

01:50:36

Um Should women pray in church with um

01:50:43

With a head covering or oh There's some debate about the head covering issue out of first quintet 11 because if it's just cultural then that You can't be consistent if you take that position,

01:50:54

I think it's that passage It's a tough one because there's a textual variant in it and um

01:51:07

And and what it it signifies is the issue of authority for the women are to Understand that they're under authority their husbands in that church context

01:51:17

It's not an issue of inferiority. It's completely an issue of theology and So when they wear a symbol over their head of that authority, they're publicly stating that they are in authority in the church ecclesiastical marriage relationship

01:51:36

And what they're doing is they're saying publicly that they're submitting to the ways of god And that's what they're doing now

01:51:44

In that culture to shave a woman's head was a scandalous. It was a designation

01:51:49

You were a prostitute you got caught adultery. They shaved your head. It was your shame because the bible talks about women's hair

01:51:56

Being a crown a symbol of her glory And also in that culture if a man a woman were out in public

01:52:04

Back then and a woman let her hair down like she would before her husband in the house

01:52:10

That was so risque That i've read Accounts where the husband could divorce his wife for that because it was in that culture

01:52:22

The woman only let her hair down in the presence of her husband because it was a sensuous Kind of a symbol and some other stuff and so to do that in public was a definite

01:52:34

Proclamation of that which is why when you go to I think it's luke seven with a woman who let her hair down and kiss jesus feet absolute scandal

01:52:42

Absolute scandal and he does not rebuke her Oh, that's incredible. We can do the parables sometime if you guys want let's go through each parable and go through them in cultural context they become

01:52:54

I'll do that. Yeah, i'll do that next week. Yeah parables. Okay, and uh

01:53:00

So i'll do that good parables Yes, I was talking about right and so i'm not sure to do with it because Is it cultural some of it is?

01:53:14

But it also says because of the angels That means it's not cultural Well, what does it mean by because of the angels?

01:53:22

Well, the angels are under authority and that's why you wear it because the angels even they recognize the authority because the angelic realm are

01:53:28

So powerful, but they even have authority and you're to wear it because of that Well, is that right?

01:53:34

So that it no one's really come up with a right answer And so that's why I can't say well, here's here's a position

01:53:39

I affirm I just don't know So in a church if a woman wants to wear a head covering i'm all for it

01:53:46

I have no problem with that if she wants to not I have no problem with that either because the bible says be convinced in Your own mind romans 14

01:53:53

And so since that's not a clear passage and I have read commentators about this Uh, i've done my own research

01:53:59

I read they're this way that way this way this way that way and um, Then they ask the same basic questions.

01:54:05

What does it mean because of the angels? What does it mean because of this? um, what about the variants what about this what about that and Just don't have a great answer

01:54:14

It's I wish I did but does that go does that also apply to not wearing jewelry and Well, it says there in regards to jewelry that you're not to do that as an outward display, um

01:54:31

As compared to that the inner beauty the real beauty is inner not outer it doesn't say that it's sinful to wear something jewelry, but You know i've seen some women on tv and stuff and it's so obvious that you're just trying to It's just it's repulsive, you know

01:54:48

And that is shameful uh So, you know men don't hardly wear jewelry except lately in pride month

01:54:58

And they prance so, uh Women aren't too, uh are not to dress in a way or do something that adorns themselves in a way that men would lust or Have a problem with that.

01:55:11

They're not to draw attention to themselves with that kind of jewelry And where's that fine line? I don't know

01:55:16

You know, it just depends if you you know a woman could have five rings on on her left hand and it not be ostentatious

01:55:24

But what if there's you know, all these diamonds and these big things and all this other jewelry? At what point it becomes difficult to say?

01:55:32

So the idea is to maintain modesty With what you you're given I have a friend who attends a church.

01:55:40

She can't wear pants. She can't wear jewelry. She can't cut her hair That's that's yeah, that's been much

01:55:46

It's not covered all the time. It's up in a bun. Sounds like you imagined pentecost. Um, I don't know what

01:55:54

Find out has yet to tell me what the name of her church is But she's called the two by twos.

01:55:59

Um, like even a medical alert bracelet Um, because that's jewelry um which i'm i'm swaying her against that because I have mine, but mine is

01:56:13

Jewelry in nature, but her pastor outrightly told her she cannot wear a medical alert necklace

01:56:19

You know I volunteer to meet with them and have a discussion That never happened

01:56:26

But I volunteer so many times. They don't want people don't want to talk to me They're like that Epistolic are like that and then some mennonite groups are like that.

01:56:37

Yeah. Yeah, so Man I have a question. Sure Spoke to my dad about in the past, but what do you think of crosses being?

01:56:48

jewelry Yeah, I have a problem with that We've got these pop singers and rappers out there using them ungodly they have crosses on that's sinful

01:57:00

Yeah, because That's blasphemous

01:57:06

But i'll wear a cross sometimes because it's a proclamation because i'm serious about my faith

01:57:13

And so that's it's a different the motivation here is the issue So i've seen people

01:57:19

You can tell After the behaviors or words, whatever that they're not very christian Have a cross on and i've said oh you're a christian, huh?

01:57:26

You got a cross on they go. No I said Do you even know what that means? I've arranged this whole

01:57:33

I said it on purpose. I know what that means. That's where god himself died on the cross for our sins

01:57:39

You're not wearing it for decoration. Are you? I've done it and I what and I walk off I've done it more than once you know, so Wearing a cross to proclaim who

01:57:53

I am and but that those people they just wear for jewelry

01:57:59

As though that the place of the death of god in flesh is to adorn them to make them look cool and hip

01:58:07

That's the one symbol out of all of the religions. Yeah, they use

01:58:13

To completely defy. Yeah They're not out there wearing little buddhas. I mean, I know there are some out there, but nobody's out there

01:58:20

Glamorizing their neck with a buddha or I mean and there are some starved davids, but those are typically gonna be your jews

01:58:26

Yep, not the mcdonalds and the rappers. Yeah onks the people who are onks

01:58:32

Right and what name do they use when they swear? Yeah, okay, and oh my and they do it all the time it

01:58:39

I see this as a as an awareness markers of demonic influence

01:58:45

And today I was watching youtube Actually took a half hour break today and I was watching youtube.

01:58:51

I watched a scare cam, you know I like to see people get scared. It's funny. It's pretty funny ones and They would constantly use the lord's name in vain and even children

01:59:00

And uh, you know i'm going this is so sinful, you know, I can't watch these and and uh, they have no idea

01:59:07

They have no idea So back when get this when um when

01:59:12

I was Working as a tech at hp We had this big room, but as big as a floor floor plan of this house

01:59:22

And had one door you go in We had desks we had places to work on computers and stuff like that Once you're in the door there's password with a key card

01:59:31

Then they would unleash they would just talk normally because you had to be professional out there. All right Well, I never changed my behavior in or out.

01:59:38

It was always the same and um obnoxious and irritating And so when they found out that I was a christian after a few months

01:59:46

And that um, I think at that point I was i'd been a pastor uh They I never pointed any fingers at them

01:59:55

I never did anything except just not participate in their sinful things And it took a while but after a while they started asking me more questions

02:00:05

And they said well, what do you think of how we are? They actually asked us the stuff and I said well You guys are and I knew him well enough to be able to say you're all pagans

02:00:13

You're all going to hell. Okay, and I got the gospel message for all of you. You guys asked me and you know That's right and I said

02:00:20

When you say when you cuss with f this and and shi this and that and I said

02:00:25

I can handle that But when you use the lord's name in vain every time you do it, it offends me

02:00:30

And I said that to them That's what offends me and uh

02:00:37

That's all I said and sure enough From then on they would not use the lord name in vain hardly at all around me

02:00:44

Now I I didn't put it on them they asked They asked But it's the way of the world.

02:00:52

They need that light You know what something is interesting. I was talking to neek about this women have a calming effect on men

02:00:59

People don't know this but I did nine years of prison ministry And we went to different prisons and I talked to some of the guards and there were women guards

02:01:06

In all men prisons, I remember thinking man these poor women, you know, they could get

02:01:11

They no respect because they're women and this guy goes on the contrary I never forgot this.

02:01:16

He said when women guards are present the men act better They just act better not every one of them, but you could tell they they act a lot better.

02:01:27

They're more polite. Yes, ma 'am Yes this because they just where they are and I never forgot that I never forgot that at all.

02:01:34

It was just really insightful and it was not what I expected But we christians could be the same kind of a thing if we

02:01:44

I don't believe in this don't say anything at any time You know after a while and I have voluntarily said in groups.

02:01:52

I've been with people they use I say guys It's out of out of the blue. I'll go

02:01:57

Well, they're using the lord's name in vain go you guys use the lord's name of being so many times It offends me so much.

02:02:02

Can you please cut it down? I've I've gotten irritated with them and What are you talking about so don't you know what you do

02:02:11

And if it's so bad, sometimes i've actually brought it up and said things and you got to say stuff

02:02:17

You know And so i've done that my grandchildren You know, oh god, oh god, you know constant and when they walk when they're in my presence

02:02:27

They'll say it once and I look at them and say please don't say that and if they say the second time

02:02:32

They immediately apologize and they stop doing it the rest of the time they're with me. Yeah, they can learn

02:02:39

That's not okay. Yeah, it's all over tv. It's all over the internet. It's all over in fact,

02:02:45

I go into discord, uh, and i'll debate and i'll teach and I have to put on the filter because These are

02:02:52

I go. I like to go where the unbelievers are I'm gonna go witness the unbelievers And and argue with them and you know in a polite way and they are effing this effing that blah blah blah

02:03:00

And i'll actually say sometime to say guys if you're going to discuss that much i'll just go someplace else Oh, you can't handle it you little all right, and i'll just sit there when they're done and say you choose to to be foul in your language be probably because You don't have a sufficient mastery of the language in english to be able to communicate properly

02:03:19

Without having to use invectives and pejoratives. I'll actually say this to them and uh

02:03:24

You know said me I prefer not to do that And if you continue that way particularly using the lord's name in vain i'm just going to go someplace else and talk to people who could be more civil and Most of the time they'll go.

02:03:37

Well, okay. We're sorry. We'll keep it down Surprising Sure, what's the question it's right

02:03:45

I can't read it your phone's too far away Oh on here.

02:03:51

Okay. I gotta get close to this You want me to slap him you can slap I don't see it I don't all slip

02:03:57

Fallen, I don't see the question. I don't see the question. Can you read me the question?

02:04:04

Okay, I have a question. How is one able to convert to christianity if everything a person does is predetermined?

02:04:11

Okay, good question We didn't say you couldn't choose

02:04:16

That's not our predetermination does not mean you can't have a choice It means even your choices are predetermined because you freely choose to do them and god permits them to occur

02:04:26

So god can certainly Construct the situation where you will freely choose or not choose certain outcomes

02:04:33

Predetermination does not mean that you don't have the free will to be able to make a choice At the time you make the choice So I chose to wear this today

02:04:41

And god could have ordained it directly or indirectly brought me to the place of wearing it because he wanted me to wear this

02:04:47

But I still Whether he he brings me the place of choosing this or I or what was not necessary Then he did that and I chose it either one or by the permissive will of god

02:04:57

And so god is in control of all things He can bring us to do what he desires And yet we're still free at the same time and the proof of this is found in jesus who has free will

02:05:06

And yet he could only do what he saw the father do nothing of his own initiative. John 5 19.

02:05:11

John 5 30 So it's perfectly compatible and um There is no problem when we go through I could go into more detail sometime, but there's no problem with the issue of god's uh

02:05:22

With compatibilism, that's the view that human free will is compatible with god's predestination

02:05:29

And so by analogy I can bring people to do certain things like what's that, you know and people look

02:05:36

And I'm not violating their free will when I point someplace and say look over there Not violating their free will they just they freely choose to look but i'm the one bringing them to do what

02:05:45

I wanted to do at the same time So there's a way in which god can by analogy. There's a way which god can bring us to do what he desires

02:05:53

And uh, yet we do what we desire also Except with salvation though You can't freely choose god on your own because an unbeliever is a slave of sin a hater of god does no good etc

02:06:03

And so the only way to become saved at that point is by god's intervention and that's where election comes in Hope that answers that question

02:06:11

Let's see So the individual agent is choosing because god enables him to choose

02:06:19

Okay, god enables him to choose and so he chooses, okay Is this um recorded?

02:06:26

Yeah, so people can go back to last week and see last week Yeah, because this is what we talked about Yeah last week

02:06:33

I did on election and predestination And because someone in the room here asked me to do that and that didn't show for the study

02:06:39

But that's okay because it was predestined. He wouldn't be here Uh -huh, he loves that anyway, so anyway, we're going to set it down now because it's 9 30 but at it for over two hours and uh next week parables

02:06:54

Sound good You can enjoy the parables you can enjoy them Okay, we'll go through them one at a time and i'll give you the parable of why the

02:07:04

The the uh landowner praised the unrighteous steward for his deception

02:07:11

I'll give you the context and you'll be able to understand it. It'll go. Oh Very interesting Okay All right.

02:07:19

Okay, everybody i'm shutting it down God bless And uh, that's it.

02:07:24

So i'm going to end it from here On the phone. Hope that you guys like this on the phone. Give me feedback.