Debate: Is Jesus God or the Son of God?

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So that's all that we need only sufficient, but the only thing that couldn't be done for okay So we don't need baptism then because it's the only thing

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Is it is it the only thing or is it not do you need to be baptized or not? Because if you need to be baptized, it's not sufficient

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It is true that you are an extremely skilled debater and you're good

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To answer your questions your host from striving for eternity ministries We Are live apologetics live here to answer your most challenging questions

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You have about God and the Bible as we say every week I can answer any question that you have about God in the

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Bible no matter how hard it is And if you think that I can't answer your question Just do a favor go to apologetics live .com

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Scroll down till you see the participate icon there that duck icon for stream yard

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Join us and ask me your hardest question. Just remember one thing. I Don't know is a perfectly good answer.

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I didn't say I'd give you a satisfying one I just told you I could answer. All right, so we are a ministry of striving for eternity we're here every

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Thursday night 8 to 10 Eastern Time to Well do apologetics show apologetics explain apologetics.

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So that is what we're doing tonight What we're going to do is someone that I had an interaction with on Twitter Sorry X What a weird name, but that's a musk thing.

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He just is like that I guess so I Had a and I don't even remember how we got into a discussion.

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Maybe Andrew will his name is also Andrew So that's gonna be fun but at least you know, we don't have

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Aaron or You know the other Andrew that we call drew here, right, you know all the A's so we're gonna discuss well originally

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I know we got into discussing whether Jesus Christ was God or not and first off I'm gonna say

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Kudos to Andrew because as this audience knows the regular audience There are many people who like to challenge me only on keyboards and we invite them to come on in and Have a discussion and they don't want to do that.

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I don't think I'm that scary I hope not but Andrew said he would and so we dialogue now

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I will say I I asked for the the title of discussion debate.

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It's not gonna be a formal debate but We're gonna we're gonna have a discussion. I suggested the topic of is

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Jesus God or not God and He wanted to debate or discuss the topic as we have is

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Jesus God or the Son of God which which I said to him that's gonna be really hard I think for him because I'm just gonna get play my hand.

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I played it to him already the term Son of God is a Title of deity.

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So is he God or is he Son of God? I'm gonna say is the same thing, but Let me welcome in Andrew how are you, sir?

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I'm very well. I'm glad to be here. Thank you. I Appreciate the invite today and salute all the

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Saints out there Yeah, so so for folks who don't know you which was including me because we we just had our first conversation

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About 30 minutes before as we're just getting making sure all the equipment was working, right? But tell folks a little bit about yourself

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So, um, I would say I've been saved I was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ I went down in the water

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Approximately eight years ago Two years after that. I received the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues.

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I've been a minister in an apostolic Church and I currently and not a formal minister, but I attend the truth of God Church first Church of our

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Lord Jesus Christ as Just a regular brethren and Like I said,

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I'm very happy to be here and I hope we have a lively discussion. Yeah, and Parker Parker Brown says mad respect for putting putting himself out there man.

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That's tough Parker been I've been on your show. It wasn't that bad. Was it? So So, yeah, so let's let's get into a little bit of this let me first let you do some of the talking and and explain your view and and and for folks to to know you have

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As we discuss there's two two different topics. We can end up discussing right you you believe that I'm gonna

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I'm gonna try to be careful in my in my wording you believe in one God which we both do But you believe in one person would that be right

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I'll let you explain your view that you would not hold to a view of a Trinity, correct?

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That's correct. Absolutely not. We deny that Okay, and and you would also believe that one needs to be baptized to be saved.

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Is that correct? You must be baptized is the name of Jesus Christ as it says in Acts 238

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Okay, so so for folks that you know One of the things you know for anyone new here

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You'll you'll see that being being that this is my show and I can always come back next week Some people sometimes criticize me for letting a guest speak which

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I'm sorry But I actually think that's respectful to a guest But I always have next week and I've we've done that before where we do what we could do a whole nother week

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Explain go like last week's we did a whole show explaining when we had godless grandma on and and getting into some

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Background and more than that. So so for folks that like to you know

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Email me saying why do you leave that guy talking so much? Because he's in here to explain his view and then

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I'll give some challenges, but that's how we do things here so so Andrew, please explain explain your your views as far as Specifically with Let me ask this is we would you be able to give a definition of what you believe?

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when when I say Trinity what I mean and Then where you disagree with it

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Well, I think the main point of contention would be that A Trinitarian or a person who?

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teaches Trinity Would say that the body of Jesus Christ the flesh and blood that was born of a woman

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Was crucified and later and died that you would say that that body is

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God It's divine It is God.

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It's either equal to God or next to God However, you want to describe it and we deny that we we we believe that God was in the body

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He put himself the spirit. God is a spirit. We know that right? We know God is a spirit according to John 4 24

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God is a spirit and we know according to 2nd Corinthians 519.

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We know that that God was in Christ. So that spirit was inside the body born of a woman and Later died that does not describe any

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God that I worship Okay, so so Do you believe

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So, how how do you believe as far as we see the father?

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Referred to as God, right? Yes, sir.

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Yes. Okay, of course. Yes many places in the in the text describe that. Yes Okay, do you believe the

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Holy Spirit is God? Yes, we If you don't mind me cutting in to make this maybe a bit simpler we believe in one

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God with many functions But not different persons or personalities.

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Okay, that's function Yeah, right. So no, would you? And and I I'm asking questions just for clarity for you know

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People listening and for myself as we get into discussion when you say functions There's some who refer to as modes

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So like he was in the mode of the father in the Old Testament and mode of Jesus When he walked the earth in the mode of the

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Holy Spirit now, would that be the same or would it be? Is there a difference between modes and functions?

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Well, the only reason I don't like the word mode is the same reason

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I don't like the word oneness or When we like to categorize people by Who we say they are

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I don't like to put labels on things. I'm strictly By the

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Holy Scriptures. So sometimes when we debate people not saying that you do or I do but this is what happens sometimes is that we say oh, you're

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Catholic or oh, you're a modalist or Fill -in -the -blank and we pigeonhole people and it shuts down teaching and learning

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Simultaneously, it just shuts everything down. So I really Don't I try to stay away from labels and I know people would like to call me a modalist or a oneness

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But I'm strictly scriptural. That's how I like to describe myself okay, and And and this is the thing that you'll you'll see with me and what we do here is to try not to take people out

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Of context, which is why I'll ask a lot of questions To be precise with it and that's what we should do

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This is I mean when when we do apologetics and this is more for the audience But when we do apologetics one thing we don't want to do is make the assumption if someone says that Well, say they're they say they're a

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Muslim or they're a Mormon But well, okay, let's say Mormon. This is a be so if they say they're a

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Mormon Well, okay, you'd make a mistake if you just assume well all

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Mormons believe that they can have multiple wives Because that's one branch of Mormonism today, but it's not the majority of Mormons.

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So we have to be careful with labels and Folks here regular listeners, you you know that I'm I'm careful with that because there's labels that get assigned to me that I don't hold up to but Because I don't know what people mean by them.

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And so And Parker says well done Andrew no time for straw man arguments that's what we don't want to do right because that's kind of becomes a waste of time and One of the things

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I want folks to think about is It may be easy to make a straw man argument and and knock down What a straw man argument is where you make a false definition so you can easily knock it down but the person you're speaking to recognizes what you're doing and Then can just reject everything you're saying

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I mean the an example that I give is when I was in New York City with a

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Muslim family and they explained that they understood what Christianity is and Defined the

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Trinity as three gods To which I said, there's no Christian that believes it's three gods

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That's what the Quran teaches, but it is not what Christians believe and he's like, oh, no That's what

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Christians believe and I just grabbed I had 25 other Christians with me there And I just grabbed one after another what define the

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Trinity one after another, you know it's a in some form or another one God three persons and So he finally was like, okay.

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Okay, I get the point right now. What did I do with anything else that person said? about Christianity I Rejected it

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Right because he doesn't know Christianity. So the so folks. This is why we take the time in Understanding and asking people questions.

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It does take more time. But a it's more respectful be it avoids the straw man arguments and and Really?

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The the more important one is three you get into a more meaningful discussion, which is I hope we'll have here

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So with that let me get back to you know, what's your what was your upbringing?

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Were you raised in a in any kind of Christian background? Yes, sir was taken to a

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Lutheran Church and I spent most of my childhood teenage years and young adulthood in the

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Lutheran Church and If you're if you or the audience is not familiar some it's a lot like being

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Catholic It really is and I had no desire. It's got upset.

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I Didn't do that. I enjoy doing that. Um, I had no desire to learn of God or learn about God or be close to God The churches

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I attended were a lot like what I like to call social clubs We For instance we we would we would all

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Jockey position to get in the back bench and the churches I go to now everybody

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Jockeys for position to good and to the first bench So it's a complete 180 from from where I started

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And and what is it that brought you from? The Lutheran Church where you ended up apostolic

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Church So Well, I got to give my wife a lot of credit

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I married an apostolic woman and So she took me to her church and Suddenly a lot of things started to click for me a lot of things

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Because I would I I never read the Bible never looked at any scripture never had any desire to But when

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I would glance at it, it made no sense to me I couldn't make sense of even the most simplest verse

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But suddenly I Had an epiphany I guess you would say where I Started to connect the dots things started to make sense and I had a desire to get closer to God and to learn about the scripture and That led me to request being baptized and And then, you know lead us to more recent events, but give my wife credit

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Yeah, yeah always good to give our wives credit so So let's let's get into at least your your understanding of who

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Jesus is and and that these Different functions, how how would you see? the functions of the

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Father The the Son and the Spirit, how do they how do they

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I'm trying to find right words to use but how do they interact? Do you believe? Yeah, I know that you know

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We talked modalism there right modalism would say that God was the Father in the Old Testament Jesus while he walked the earth and the

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Spirit now Would you hold to something similar like that or would it be different and if it's different how?

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Well This scripture teaches us that God is holy and that God is a spirit if God is a holy spirit

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Why would he need other gods next to him All the fullness of the

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Godhead is inside Jesus the body Is once one spirit one

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God one faith one baptism so The what we say so the

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Bible says that that Jesus was born From a woman.

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Mm -hmm. He was made the Bible declares that he was made

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He grew in stature and wisdom He slept he ate

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He was a man in The flesh and that God that Holy Spirit was inside of him

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Jesus the man is our mediator the go -between

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He was sacrificed Because the Bible says that there cannot be any remission of sin without the shedding of blood.

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So he needed Blood to be shed to pay our price to pay the price of our sin now

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We don't believe that the body of Jesus existed Before he was born

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You know two thousand some years ago from from his mother That that body

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Later died Was buried and was rose by the power of the

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Spirit not on his own accord God rose the body up and that body became

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Spiritualized it no longer was flesh and blood. It was a Spiritualized body which we saw a premonition of that on the

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Mount of Transfiguration That was the spiritualized body of Moses and Jesus, right?

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so That is the body That ascended to heaven and is currently sitting on the throne.

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There's one throne and One person sitting on it. It's Jesus So When the

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Bible says that he's seated at the right hand of the father He's not literally sitting in another chair next to a spirit

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The right hand obviously referred to he is the power that that spirits

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Used right hand meaning power not a literal sitting on the right hand So, let me let me try and make sure

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I understand because I'm confused with son so it You believe Jesus is

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God, correct? And of course, I'm good waiter. I asked that just as you take a sip you see

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Yeah Yeah, yes, I do just not that body of flesh and blood is not

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God, okay, so is I Want trying to see if I can delay is it the

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Spirit who is God or? Jesus and because it seems like you're making a distinction between him having a body or not but Jesus Jesus inherited

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Jesus meaning Savior Inherited that name from his father.

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They their God name is Jesus But not that body of flesh and blood that is his son

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Let me ask this. What what makes a a person do you?

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And if it may be a question you hadn't really thought about so I mean you're referring to the body, which is the material part

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But is is a person made of the material or is it that immaterial it that that spirit

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What is it that we that would be the person? No, right the person is not the body or even their thoughts

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We might get into another discussion if I if I hit you real with a real hot shot here

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And I say our thoughts are not our own You probably weren't expecting that that's a whole other discussion but who are whose thoughts are our thoughts

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So Do we have well, let me ask it with another question

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I know that's maybe not polite to do but let me do that. Anyway, if you don't mind So if your thoughts are your own, how do you create them?

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If I do it if my thoughts are my own Yeah, well thought thoughts are immaterial.

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So now you get into the question when you're speaking of creation You know of an immaterial thing.

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It's not going to be the same as what we think of as creating something materially but Thoughts would be part of the mind which is separate from the brain.

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So the mind would be an immaterial That works with the physical brain How they interact

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I'm not a hundred percent. Sure, but there seems to be a interaction between the mind and brain Between the physical and or material and immaterial

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Well when you think of something even well, let's it can be practical thoughts

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I suppose but when you think of something like how you want to Perform An act or how you want to think about something.

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How do you create that thought? you I'll cut to the chase.

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You don't know how you create it because it's not yours. You didn't create it. So who created it all

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Well, all thoughts are all lies all the time So who who who is the great deceiver who who comes up with lies?

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Who is the original liar? I know you're referring to Satan. Mm -hmm, right? That's who that's where your thoughts come from So did

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Jesus have thoughts? He had God inside of him God was like think of God like okay

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This is what God did God came God came to earth and he put on a giant

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Jesus overcoat and walked around Okay So do do we as Christians have the spirit in dwelling us

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Which spirit the Holy Spirit the the promised spirit that we see in Jeremiah and Ezekiel for the promise of the new covenant that the spirit would

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Would be within us and teach us God's Word. We would no longer need a priest a

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Priesthood because the spirit would reveal God's Word to us Some do yeah, so then are those thoughts then divine

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Yes You would say that we can have divine thoughts

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Would that make us divine? No, no, your thoughts are not your own But if so, you can't you can't claim them as your own or you can't claim them as your identity because they're not yours

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Were they Jesus's? God was inside of him doing all the work.

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Yes But if God was inside of Jesus doing all the work and God is the Holy Spirit is within us

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Are we then God the way Jesus was? No No, we are not his only begotten

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Son We are adopted, isn't it? well,

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I Guess we could get into a discussion of what it means to be the only begotten Son No, I was born

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You know, I had a mother and a father and I was conceived and you know grew up Just like every other person

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But I'm not I wasn't begotten by the father Okay but Okay, so I don't go down the road of the the thoughts too much but it was it's interesting but I just want to hit you with that hot take and take a take a little break from One God, but I'm happy to go back to to what we started with.

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Yeah. No, I mean I I'm trying to track with you and I haven't heard that before so it's interesting and so part of me is

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I'm naturally curious. So I'd probably want to spend a lot of time on that And the audience be like, hey, you made it switched us but so so You believe the

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Spirit? Indwelt Jesus so Jesus was a Physical being that was born and created

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You you don't believe that well, let me ask it as a question and said as a statement. Do you believe that Jesus?

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always existed The spirit not the body Okay and and that's what makes me go to what is the person right because I mean

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I I would say that Jesus is God and the person of Jesus the person of the

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Son took on flesh Had an existence before Right So It's what makes

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Jesus God that he was indwelt with the Holy Spirit Well, let me let me ask let me answer the first part of what you just said and maybe it'll clear up the second part so what

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I teach is word for word in the scriptures and we can get to that if you like but My Opposition to Trinity is that it is not word for word in the scripture

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It must be brought out through a process that that you'll call exegesis what the things that you profess with Trinity are not word for word and Now when we when we when we have a witness

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To say a criminal proceeding. We will always take the side of the eyewitness

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Over second -hand witness or hearsay. In fact hearsay is often disregarded in a court of law, but if somebody has word for word firsthand knowledge of something that takes precedent over any style of interpretation of the

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Bible So when the Bible says to us Hear Oh Israel.

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Our Lord God is one Lord That takes precedent over Anyone that thinks that there are three persons?

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Because three the word Trinity the word three persons

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Never appears in Scripture Okay, but one Lord is

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I could give you Right off the top of my head without even working hard I could give you a ten verses that say that there is just one

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Lord. There is none beside him He has no equals. He has no rivals, but we're not gonna we're not going to disagree with that.

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We believe there's only one God So that so since we know that We can now we know that there's just one we know that there's none next to him.

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He has no equal There's not a pre -existing second person

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Because we know that he has one and there's not there's none next to him Do you do you believe that would you you believe in the

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Bible every word word for word Do you believe that God is omniscient?

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We we call it Holy Scriptures, by the way, because there's no there's nothing that says it's a Bible We like to say

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Holy Scriptures. Okay, do you believe because that's how exact we are about the scriptures if that gives any indication?

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Okay. Yeah, so do you believe God's omniscient? Yes Do you believe he's omnipresent?

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Omnipresent. Yes. Okay, and yet neither of those words are in the Bible or in the

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Holy Spirit. That's correct Good job. So so what we do with that is

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I'm sorry. Go ahead. No Absolutely, you go. Yeah, I was just gonna say so what we do is we see where it says he he knows all things and we use a

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A big word maybe to impress people but I'm omniscient just means all -knowing, right?

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So we use that term or label to define something

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That we see in Scripture. Do you think that's a wrong thing to do? No, I do not okay, but There's nothing that I read in Scripture that indicates that there's two gods or two personalities but I do read in Scripture where God is in Is in multiple places he has multiple functions

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He's he knows all there's nothing that's hidden from him. So To to make that's an assumption you can make because It says it in many places there.

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There's nowhere that you can that you can pull out that says multiple gods or there

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Because oh because there's nothing there's nothing that says the opposite. That's what

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I meant to say Okay, there's nothing that says the opposite That's that's the that's how you tell the difference

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So there's nothing that says that God is not everywhere if there was That would be a problem, but there isn't but there there is something that says that there is one

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God and there's not one Next to him Yeah, but we we agree with that We don't believe in three gods

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We believe in one God You said you believe in the pre -existence of The person of Jesus, yeah the person of Jesus, so where's he a separate

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God? So, where's he at? Well, he would be he would be in heaven

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Or and you know in the heavenly host along with the Father and the Spirit technically he'd be everywhere

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Because God is everywhere right so the

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Trinity is is something that was Formulated to solve a problem that we see as you and I both agree that the

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Father's is God Jesus the Son is God and the Spirit is God Now We can agree with that and we're we're maybe we're we're honing in on our differences is

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You know, you would say that they're one Person one being it seems like and I would say there are three persons in one being so it's what we're both saying one

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Godhead Right, oh

32:58

You sure good no, okay. Yeah, I would disagree with that The Godhead is often

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Mischaracterized as all three of those things together Functioning separately

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Existing at the same time sometimes in the same exact location That's incorrect.

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The Bible tells us that all the fullness of the Godhead resides inside of Christ And so that's it's just the

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Spirit that's it so so when Jesus was being baptized Good, let's get to that.

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He's baptizing him. The Spirit is in Jesus at that time The Spirit is not the dove let's put it that way

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But well, there's no there's no there's no dove there. There's not even a dove in in in the in the scene

33:54

No, it's the Spirit coming down like a dove. Yeah like a dove. That's good

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I still see the Spirit coming down, correct? It's a spirit Okay.

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So is that the Holy Spirit? It's God But it's the difference what's the difference

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God is holy and God is a spirit there's no difference But is the Spirit in Jesus or is it outside of Jesus in Jesus?

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It's in Jesus, but John can see it outside of Jesus Where do you get that?

34:27

Because John's the one seeing the Spirit descending as a dove so No No, that's a misinterpretation

34:39

How's it a misinterpretation Because you're you're saying that there's a literal

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Either a sight of a dove or or of another entity Descending as a dove like a dove which means peace

34:57

Mitch, which means peacefully Calmly, so well, let's let's look at this is

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I'm gonna read Matthew 3 16. It says after being baptized It Was this yeah, yeah after after being baptized

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Jesus came up immediately from the water and behold, the heavens were opened and He so this is speaking of John saw the

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Spirit of God Descending as a dove not saying he was a dove, but he saw the

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Spirit of God descending on Jesus So was the

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Spirit of God outside of Jesus or in Jesus at that moment

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He's in Jesus, then how did John see everywhere the Spirit is everywhere

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You're you're taking things too. Literally. It sounds a lot like you when you're when you're saying on the right hand of the

35:57

Father Well, you do the spirit inside the teacher will help you discern when there is a metaphor and when it is literal

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So you rely on on a feeling for that? No the rules of language.

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I Rely on this the Holy Spirit. I do not rely on a feeling feelings are also what you know, they're also lies

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How do you know that that thought is of the Holy Spirit because I'm teaching it that's how

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So then can you ever be wrong? I Can be yeah, the Holy Spirit is not though, but so so that's what

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I get back to the question then. How do you know? Well, that it's the Spirit and not your own thoughts

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How do I know? Yeah So We have we have other teachers

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We have we have the Holy Spirit within us and we have other teachers if you're not sure of something

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I suggest you consult an elder Okay, well and the way

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I would answer that is Language has rules and God spoke to us using language so I can read the

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Holy Scriptures and See what he means to be taken literal and not to be taken a little so for example

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I don't say there was a dove because it very clearly saying as a dove.

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It's saying that it is a simile It's it's an illustration but he does see what what what

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John the the baptizer sees here is He sees Jesus who is in the water

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He sees the the Spirit descending outside of Jesus and then he hears the voice of the father

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Saying this is my beloved Son in whom I'm well pleased So we we see three different he's hearing a voice of God outside of Jesus He's seeing the

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Spirit outside of Jesus and you're saying that the Spirit is within Jesus No, you're first of all, you're saying that So you're saying we see this

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God and we see this God and we see this God The the man in the water being baptized is not

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God so you can Just dispel that right off the bat, okay, wait

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Jesus is not God or he is not not the not the flesh and blood

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No, sir, but that's not Jesus is not just born. He was born of a woman and died

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God cannot die So that's not God and We know

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That God is one he has no equals and he has nobody next to him no rivals no partners

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Nothing. It's just one God So if you hear a voice It's from the same spirit that you see.

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There's not a spirit over here and then a voice over here. It's the spirit speaking So So you're saying so you're you would say that this the voice he's hearing is not from the father.

39:14

It's from the spirit It's the same God just performing different functions.

39:20

It's they're not separate entities And and I mean we get into it if you if you have separate entities, who's the boss?

39:32

Well, who's the boss of your body when when you decide to walk is It your spirit forcing your body or is it your body forcing your spirit

39:42

Those are just practical thoughts. They don't they don't require The Holy Spirit to take over my body to walk.

39:49

Those are practical things. I well, I wake up in the morning I go to work. Those are practical practical the definition of what a person is

39:57

Right to personhood because that's what we're discussing here is personhood So you're saying the body is of Jesus is not

40:05

God But it's the story. Are you saying it is? I wasn't clear on that.

40:10

Are you saying it is? I'm saying that Jesus is not is not just a body

40:17

He's not he he's not that body. God is that body God? Is that that body that hung on the cross and died?

40:25

Is that God? Yes God died If he didn't we're all dead in our sins

40:31

How so? Do you believe that Even one lie would as it says in Revelation that all liars will have their place in the lake of fires burns of brimstone

40:43

Which is called the second death there's no difference between a liar and a murderer or With the punishment be

40:52

Eternity or being forever punished in a lake of fire. Well, you wouldn't make the first resurrection.

40:59

Let's start off with that but With the consequence of breaking God's law

41:06

Be an eternal damnation Yeah, you can't get to heaven with it with all those sins on you.

41:12

You have to be you have to be sinless. I Okay, I'm gonna

41:17

I'm gonna put the sinless aside for a second because I don't want to go on that rabbit trail because I'm Not sure what you mean by it.

41:23

So Maybe we'll come back to that Because actually there was someone that asked that in the in the chat earlier and folks in the chat

41:32

Because Drew's not here to grab some of the the chats I may not get all of the questions

41:37

You may actually have to just ask him a couple times or just put question real real big and I'll see it so The the question

41:48

I was was was getting to where we're talking personhood and so Your immaterial and material body work together, right?

41:58

So that's how you walk Your mind and brain work together with your nervous system So the immature part of you and the material part of you work together so We can't separate that Now as far as God dying

42:15

The reason I say he has to is Let's say for for Hypothetical clearly that I never broke

42:26

God's law. I never ever sinned my whole life Okay Then I would be able to be a substitute for someone who did what would it take for me to be a substitute?

42:38

I'd have to have not Broken any of God's law, but then I would have to pay the punishment that you owe

42:45

Which means I would have to go to the lake of fire forever so that you could be set free

42:53

Now as a Temporal being I would be able to do that for only one person because it would take me forever to pay that debt

43:04

Jesus being God Can pay that debt for more than one person because he's eternal it has to do with the nature of who

43:14

Jesus is So if if Jesus is not God if he was not

43:20

God on the cross Then his death That that punishment wasn't eternal

43:27

He didn't pay for it for everyone because if you're saying his his flesh is just temporal see and Well, let me ask you this.

43:37

What is death? well death is

43:49

You go to the grave That's what that means So does it mean non -existence no, it doesn't mean non -existence.

44:07

Okay good There was something about your set up in your last part that I wanted to I Wanted to dive into and I'm trying to think of what it was

44:24

Oh the part of the part about Who has to Not who?

44:35

How how is that sin paid By by whom whom what qualifications do you need in order to pay for everyone's sin?

44:44

I don't know how else to put it but okay, so Well, let me ask this because I like to I Like to be a little pithy as well as they say so if if God died on the cross

45:01

Who or what? power resurrected him Hmm so Let me first define death so that we can so we understand what we're meaning

45:14

Death it means separation. Okay, so physical death is separation of the the immaterial spirit from the material body

45:22

That's all it was that that's what it means. So when we talk about death, we often think of as people dying

45:30

What it means is that they have not stopped existing Right the

45:35

Jesus says to the man on the cross whose body is going to be dead and buried and he says to him

45:42

Today, you'll be with me in paradise. Who's he's who's gonna be in paradise? It's not his flesh.

45:49

It's the person Right, I would dispute that as well. Oh, would you okay?

45:55

Yeah, I would what would you say? because Oh Yeah, that thief on the cross he's not saved he's not saved because he's not baptized because he's not baptized so But more importantly

46:12

The reason he's not saved is because you have to read the text a bit closer It's he he asked

46:18

Jesus to remember him He says remember me when you come into your kingdom.

46:24

Mm -hmm He didn't ask to be taken anywhere or put anywhere or done anything with he asked to be remembered and Jesus says certainly

46:34

I'll remember you. That's the end of that. That's the end of that He's what

46:39

Jesus says is today. You will be with me in paradise Where was

46:45

Jesus the next day in the grave? You sure about that?

46:51

He's in the grave. You sure about that positive about young positive about that So he's he's not so you're saying that God is not everywhere present

47:01

That flesh and blood is not God So that's that's where we're having the disconnect here.

47:06

Yeah, I'm realizing that and that's what I keep pointing out Right, but if you but if you see it from but if you see it from my point of view

47:13

I'm not telling you to do so, but let's say if you were to the things I'm saying would line up perfectly

47:19

But since you don't You don't see it my way. It seems like everything I'm saying doesn't make any sense to you

47:26

Well, no, I think I think what it is is look I recognize that every system has a way to save their the system.

47:34

Okay Lifesaving device they every system has that I'm looking at what scripture says

47:41

Jesus said Today you will be with me in paradise Who will be in paradise?

47:48

What was What is I think In a

47:54

Jewish woman's using to a lot of people. What is paradise? Yeah to to a Jewish mindset the paradise would refer to heaven to the abode of God interesting, but if you don't mind if we get back to What we started out with yeah, you know if you don't mind

48:22

I I Just go back to what

48:28

I was saying before about about the witness of the scripture and the reason why we hold fast to these beliefs is because it literally says the things we're saying and The Trinity and its teachings have to be flushed out

48:45

So I'll take the literal words any day of the week over having to flush out of scripture your doctrine

48:55

Yes, you're saying the pre -existence of a second entity and I assume you're saying there's a pre -existence of a third entity

49:03

Why do we stop at three? It seems awfully limiting to God to just say he's three gods.

49:09

Why can't he be? Fifty a hundred why just three? well that would be a argument that Really has no bearing because we only focus on I'm only gonna focus on what scripture says

49:26

Right. So scripture makes it clear that you know, you're You're I'm trying to press you to be consistent and I'm not seeing it.

49:37

So let me show you how when I say when I look at the baptism and we and John can see

49:43

Jesus in the water that you say that The Spirit is in him But John can see the

49:50

Spirit outside of him at that point you're gonna recognize that the Spirit is everywhere present, correct

50:00

The Spirit of God sure. Okay yeah, and then when I talk when I say that Jesus could be on the cross and be

50:08

God and You say when his body is in the tomb and I could say yes, but he's everywhere present you go

50:15

Oh, no, but you can't have it that way So at least I'm being consistent With the second part of what you said when you started with in the tomb

50:25

You lost me there. I was not following you you asked me the question. Where was

50:30

Jesus when Jesus was in the tomb? Right you you asked where he was and I said he's everywhere present because he's

50:41

God and You you argued that he had to be in the tomb

50:47

No, the body's in the tomb the body's in the tomb, but not God who is Jesus is

50:52

Jesus the Spirit or is he the body? Yes both

50:59

Okay, so if it's both then you can't be separating them The way the body the body is not divine.

51:06

They have the same name Okay, so when Jesus inherited his name from his father

51:16

That's where the name Jesus come from God Overcame his mother and said, you know, you know, this is his name.

51:23

His name will be Jesus because that's an inherited name So God went back

51:31

Into the tribe of Judah went to the house of David Brought forth this body

51:38

Was born of a woman It's not pre -existing. That's not Divine there's nothing divine about a body that's born of a woman.

51:48

He later died was put in a tomb All the blood and everything was out of that bodies put in the tomb.

51:56

It's dead. That body is dead The spirit leaves the body Three days later resurrects the body gets back in to the body the spirit gets back into the body and then he's seen in The neighborhood by many witnesses

52:16

But they didn't recognize him why because it's a spiritualized body and 40 days later.

52:24

He ascends to heaven where he sits on the throne to this day So you're saying that they couldn't recognize him because his body wasn't spiritualized yet No, it was spiritualized at that point.

52:35

Oh, it was spiritualized. That's why they couldn't recognize. I'm sorry. I said it wrong So then how did Mary? Not recognize him and then immediately recognize him when he had a spiritualized body

52:49

Because of a give me a scripture, please Well when Mary's at the tomb, so this is going to be toward the end of John, I guess.

52:58

I Don't know the it's only in John. Is that only in John? I'm guessing it's probably

53:03

I Don't know exactly where it is that Mary comes to I got a

53:15

Gotta look it up Then folks in the chat if you if you know the passage where Mary's at the tomb

53:25

That'd be good, okay, here we go verse chapter 20 and we can start with 15

53:39

Maybe 15 or 14 All right.

53:44

So 14 she does not recognize him and knew not that it was Jesus Jesus says woman.

53:50

Why are you crying? Right? Why weepest thou? Yeah, who do you who you're looking for whom seekest thou

53:58

She thought he was the gardener. She's supposing him to be the gardener. So she said unto him sir

54:07

If thou hath borne him hence Tell me where thou hast laid him.

54:13

So if you took the body, where'd you put it? And I will give me the body and I'll take it away

54:19

Jesus saith unto her Mary She turned herself and saith unto him teacher as Rabboni master master

54:29

So he spoke to her and she recognized his speech She didn't recognize the way he looked but she recognized the way he talked

54:43

That's my son And Mary Ranglin came announcing so you're saying that just because he he he knows the voice the body spoke

54:56

Yes, sir She knows she'd recognize the voice. He said Mary recognized the voice

55:03

So let me get this straight. She recognized the voice Again I guarantee you right

55:08

I guarantee you right now. I could get my mother on the phone I could say one word to her. She recognized me.

55:14

Okay, but here's here's the problem but if I grew it, but if I grew a beard and cut my hair and put some weird clothes on or Whatever.

55:21

Yeah The point is is that in verse 15 he spoke

55:29

Right. He said woman. Why are you weep? Why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking? Why did she not recognize him after he spoke because after he spoke it says

55:39

Supposing him to be the gardener. She said to him sir If you carried him away, tell me where you have laid him.

55:46

So after he spoke she didn't recognize the voice It was when she started chronological.

55:53

It's obviously not in chronological order. Oh It is in chronological order because it wouldn't make any sense in language if it wasn't

56:02

Because she's answering his question She's and he asks a question.

56:09

She's answering your thing. It has to be in chronological order. It has to be

56:18

Do you usually answer questions whether asked? Do I answer questions?

56:25

Sometimes when I'm being disruptive, but not in this case So what would you say?

56:33

It's interesting. That's what you're saying. What would you say? I would say that she she He asks a question she answers it

56:42

She's saying to him quite clearly that She she's willing to take care of the body what do you do with the body?

56:52

Maybe he doesn't wreck. Maybe she don't recognize till he says Mary see once you see what you're doing

56:58

You're now trying to save your your position, right? That's that's right. That's right. It's called.

57:03

Yeah Yeah, I'm just reading the Bible and so am

57:08

I that's no you're not I'm not You're you're you're just said maybe

57:14

This is happening. I'm not what what is it? What is it that you get? What did what do you get from that?

57:20

And maybe I can answer you better because you're you know that you're saying it's it's a passage that shows that she did not recognize

57:28

Jesus and Then she recognizes Jesus something you said

57:35

Couldn't be Right. So I'm just trying to see if you can be consistent with it. I don't know

57:40

I just don't that's not an intricate part to doctrine. That's not it's not that important.

57:46

I think That The the

57:53

Bible does tell us that he was not recognized at some points and Maybe he was at some at others.

58:00

I'm not to say I don't think it's that important. Do you? I think the way we interpret the

58:06

Bible is extremely important. Yes. No that part that I'm just saying right there Yeah, does that affect your doctrine at all?

58:14

Does it affect that it affects yours because you believe that he's some sort of spiritualized

58:21

Entity. No, I don't think that I don't think that that's that's what it's that's what the scripture tells us.

58:28

I Would prefer the things were much easier, but I'm not Where does the scripture say?

58:33

that Jesus is not it is

58:39

Just his body the way you were saying it Jesus say it again, please.

58:44

Where does the scripture say that Jesus is just his body? Jesus is just his because I keep saying

58:52

Jesus is God and I'm referring to body and spirit Where you where does it say that Jesus is

58:58

God? Where does it say that? Where's that? Sure Lots of places

59:03

John 8 John 10 He says before Abraham was

59:08

I am they want to take one at a time Let's take one at a time because if I'm teaching the Bible, I got to do one at a time.

59:14

So there's everybody Johnny all right before Abraham before Abraham God was all right

59:22

So before it was next one. I am what is what's special about the name? I am

59:29

What is special about the name I am yeah, well I can tell you that it doesn't refer to the body of Jesus We know that because we know that Because we know that body didn't exist before it was born.

59:42

We know that God had no one beside him So that's how we can interpret all these things that you have to pull your doctrine out of hold on You just pulled that out.

59:54

There's no verse that says what you just said You made that up Which there's no there's no scripture that says

01:00:02

That Jesus is only the body That he didn't pray.

01:00:09

He didn't exist forever Eternally. Yeah, there is it says yeah.

01:00:14

Okay. Let me go to That now let's let's say let's stay on topic

01:00:20

Right. So we see that He's called I am who is

01:00:25

I am who is called I am Yes, that's what I asked you. Who is the

01:00:33

I am? God God, so what is he claiming to be? Who's he claiming to be when he says

01:00:42

Who is who? Claiming to be who is Jesus claiming to be in the passage

01:00:48

We just looked at in John 8 when he says before Abraham was I am Yes before Abraham was

01:00:56

God He doesn't say before Abraham I Existed or it was me

01:01:03

Jesus He's saying before Abraham was God was

01:01:09

And who's who's he speaking about? He never he never says I Existed before Abraham That's exactly what he just said

01:01:20

No, it doesn't that it says that's not exactly what he said. I am is the name of God Referring to his self existence

01:01:29

Yes, and he's saying before Abraham was I am before Abraham was

01:01:35

God And he's referring to himself

01:01:41

No, he's not because he's the son of God. He's saying you're you're you just add it on what you want to believe

01:01:48

He said Abraham was God, okay. So so you're saying that I added on what

01:01:55

I want to believe. Is that right? If you add to the scripture, that's what you're doing, okay

01:02:02

So because you because you're asking me things like who is he saying he is and then that it doesn't say that Okay, so it says just really get real plain.

01:02:15

Yeah, I'll read a real plain You show me for him of God in here ready. I'll read it again. Show me where it says son of God Jesus it doesn't

01:02:24

I never said that it says I am which is a reference of deity, correct? It tell

01:02:30

God was referred to earlier. Yes when he says When he's speaking of himself says truly truly

01:02:37

I say to you before Abraham was I am He is claiming a self existence he is claiming to be deity now he's saying verily verily before Abraham God That's not what it says

01:02:53

Not even your King James. That's exactly what it says Yes, sir

01:03:01

Let me look at another one. Let's try another one. No, no, no Because one thing we don't do here is we don't just jump to well

01:03:09

Hey now now that I got caught I'm gonna change, you know topics that I don't care

01:03:14

I don't care of that. You're caught you can change topics I'm not I'm not the one that's caught because you just had to change the scripture

01:03:20

I didn't change a word not a jot or a tittle Okay Let me let me pull up a

01:03:27

King James Bible so that we could see if that's what the King James word -for -word says Do you believe the

01:03:33

King James is? is inspired I Read from the

01:03:39

Holy Scriptures my Bible my scriptures says Holy Scriptures on the front So do mine, but it's a different it's a different English translation.

01:03:46

So I'll ask the question again. Do you believe that the King James? Authorized version is that inspired?

01:03:55

It's the one that that is how my Holy Scriptures it

01:04:02

It gives you the closest Interpretation to the correct

01:04:10

Doctrines and the correct reading. Okay, so Alaska like I said, my scriptures does not say

01:04:15

King James or it just says Holy Scriptures So we don't we don't recognize different.

01:04:21

So it's it's the authorized version, correct? Hmm, I don't know what that means.

01:04:26

Well, if you open the beginning of your Open the first part of your book Bible. You're gonna see that it says authorized version

01:04:35

Which is the King James Version No, it does not

01:04:42

Here's what it says, but let me point it to you Can you see that yeah

01:04:48

They it's too small to read that I see Holy Scriptures, but every Bible is called

01:04:53

Holy Scriptures So what it what it says in John in in in the authorized

01:04:59

John 858 Does not say what you said it says it says

01:05:05

Jesus said unto them Verily verily I say unto you before Abraham was

01:05:10

I am Mm -hmm. Jesus speaking of himself claimed to be

01:05:15

I am Where does it say Jesus speaking? Jesus said

01:05:25

Who's talking he's talking So who who is but I can talk about I can talk about you can't

01:05:31

I and I'm not referring to myself Okay, but are they asking Jesus a question?

01:05:37

That he's answering about himself Look at first This is

01:05:47

Questions verse 57 then the Jews said unto him thou who's the thou speaking of Thou art not years old.

01:05:57

Who's that? It's Jesus and and a group of people speaking You know, it's a group people speaking to Jesus and they're saying to him doubt are not yet 50 years old, right?

01:06:08

How have you seen Abraham? So when Jesus is answering Who is he saying who's he speaking about God that's inside of him?

01:06:20

Where does it say that? Well, we know God's inside of him. We know that you see this is this is what you keep saying

01:06:27

We know no, we don't know because you're you're pulling that out What the verse actually says verily verily

01:06:33

I say unto you before Abraham was I am It doesn't say the Spirit within me the

01:06:39

Son of God. It doesn't say that anywhere All right second second Corinthians, hold on with this verse we have to harmonize the verses

01:06:49

No, we can't do No, that's not called harmonizing. That's called because you're because you're saying because you're saying that you don't think that God was in Christ I have to That's not the argument

01:07:05

To wit that God was in Christ Okay, so we know so we know

01:07:11

God is inside that body but that's not what this verse says see that When Jesus is clarifying

01:07:19

And teaching them. Mm -hmm. They're saying You say how do you you know, you have all these teachings and you have this and that but you're not even 50

01:07:29

You know and Jesus is saying I have God inside of me. No, that's not

01:07:35

God that's what he's saying. God is no that's not understood because you're at you're you're at you're adding to the

01:07:42

Scriptures This is what he's saying So clarifying he says no

01:07:52

Abraham was Andrew. I did not let Abraham was

01:07:59

God That's that's what he's saying. That is not what he's Abraham was God that's not what he's saying

01:08:06

That's not what he says. I say unto you before Abraham was I am Right God, that's what he said

01:08:13

You you you yourself said that that word that the word I am refers to God.

01:08:19

Yes So then what so so then help me understand in the context where they're asking whether he

01:08:27

Jesus is greater than their father Abraham. That's the discussion You're saying that he just ignores the answer by just saying oh, yeah before Abraham was

01:08:36

God existed Is that what you're saying? I'm not saying anything well be what the scripture says is what

01:08:45

I'm saying the scripture says that they're they're just getting into a discussion of who Jesus is and We know that he's saying what

01:08:54

I'm saying because of the very next verse then then they picked up stones to To cast at him.

01:09:01

Why did they pick up stones to cast at him? Because they don't understand Don't understand what?

01:09:08

They don't understand What they don't understand his teaching What's his what is he teaching?

01:09:17

That he is the Son of God the Messiah God is inside that body.

01:09:22

They don't understand anything. They think They think he's saying he is

01:09:28

God just like you that is what he's like you that's not what he's saying

01:09:33

Okay, don't understand just like you don't understand. Are you sure about that?

01:09:39

100 % 100. Okay. So let's go to John chapter 10 Okay, and again

01:09:50

Same people are challenging him. He says I and the father are one and It says this is

01:09:58

John 10 31 Then the Jews picked up stones again to stone him and Jesus answered them

01:10:06

Many good works. I have shown you from my father for which of these works are you stone me?

01:10:13

Then the Jews answered him saying for a good work. We stone thee not but for blasphemy and Because thou being a man makest of themself

01:10:24

God so clearly The context shows that the people understood that his claim was that he was being

01:10:33

God Now, do you believe Jesus is God? I have the same.

01:10:39

It's the same thing as we just did I would just do word for word back and forth the same exact thing that we just did five minutes ago

01:10:48

It's the same explanation Nothing would change it's almost it's almost very like Very similar scenario in two different verses.

01:11:00

It's the same thing happening It is it is both times He's claiming to be God and they are there both times the people of that generation who know the language of that time

01:11:10

Know it and they pick up stones to stone him for claiming to be God and you're saying

01:11:16

He's claiming that that God is in him, I'm not saying anything the scripture clearly says

01:11:22

God is in Christ this verse Show you that in this verse because that because I don't passage says the opposite to what you're saying

01:11:32

It's not saying is with if you have if you if you come from The point of view that that body is

01:11:43

God You're going to read that into every scripture so I don't

01:11:50

I come from the point of view that God is a spirit and That he's inside the man.

01:11:56

So I read every scripture knowing that So so in other words you read that.

01:12:02

I'm not I'm not I'm not under under any delusion To think that I can change your mind until I until I show you that God is just one

01:12:14

And and it's not up to me to change God is one see I can't I can't change your mind

01:12:22

I'm not here to change your mind, but if you want my point of view, that's my point of view Andrew Here's the thing what you're doing is and I know you don't recognize you're doing this you're doing what you claim.

01:12:33

I'm doing You're reading into a passage something. The passage doesn't say and You're saying you're literally not

01:12:41

I'm literally not I'm literally saying what's exactly word for word Okay, so this literally says that they are stoning him for claiming to be

01:12:50

God Correct Not God within him It doesn't say that what verse is this?

01:12:59

This is John chapter 10 verses 32 to 33

01:13:05

Right, he asks them. Why do you stone me in verse 30? He said he and the father are one they understood that that's a claim

01:13:14

It's just like the using the name I am as a claim of deity verse 30 Once they pick up they pick up stones again.

01:13:23

What's the again refer to? When was that when was the earlier time they picked up stones to stone at him?

01:13:31

Who does the works? In verse 32 who does the works Jesus The works are from the father, you know that right?

01:13:49

That's just is that what it says here Do you know that in? No, do you know that?

01:13:55

Who does the works Jesus? the body Yeah, I don't know why you keep getting stuck on the body because I'm not saying

01:14:06

You're when your body dies you don't die Okay, you're not just your body

01:14:14

Good works. Have I shown you from my father?

01:14:20

So, you know that right you you keep making an insistence on the body the body the body

01:14:28

Is there anywhere in the Bible that you see that we are the body and not the spirit

01:14:34

Because the Bible refers to the soul that refers to both body and spirit

01:14:41

So you keep making the soul being just the body it seems Okay, it says many good works.

01:14:50

Have I showed you from my father? The works are from the father God Inside of him doing the works.

01:14:59

He says I don't do the works I don't I'm not doing the works.

01:15:04

And why is he not doing the works because he's the son of God. He's not God God is doing the works.

01:15:12

Okay, so you're saying you're saying that it's it's God who does it and not him so When he says the works that I do in my father's name, it's not him doing it

01:15:27

In my father's name means by the power of his father Okay, and You're reading that in that's not what it says

01:15:34

It says says the works that I do in my father's name you you told us we have to be we have to take it Just as it is.

01:15:39

I'm just reading it. Why why do you keep having to add words in there? I'm not anything because you can do what you're saying

01:15:47

When there is not other scripture that contradicts but Listen but listen it contradicts what you're saying

01:15:56

You know, but there there are no contradictions in the Bible so if we have a verse that says

01:16:02

The father does the works you can't have another work another verse that says

01:16:08

Jesus does the works you can't have both So we know that the father is inside him doing the works, okay

01:16:19

What you say it can't be both based on what Because you can't have contradictions in the

01:16:28

Bible. So when it says don't have a contradiction, but Comprehend something doesn't mean it's a contradiction so so when the

01:16:37

Bible says See now that I even I am him and he and there is no

01:16:45

God with me We know that there's just one entity one

01:16:50

God there's nobody with him So that body did not exist until he was born of a woman we know that so everything else that you're reading here

01:17:02

Everything else that you're reading in John and this and that and this and that You're reading it incorrectly because you think that Jesus has always been that body has always been he's just next to God Don't know how many times

01:17:15

I could say this to you before you understand. That's not what I'm saying I've never once said that his body always existed and this is the problem

01:17:24

You can't even have a dialogue with me without reinterpreting what I say to fit your narrative

01:17:31

So and this is this is how does he exist? So how does he exist before he's born? Because he's

01:17:38

God no, he's no no In what fashion does he exist

01:17:45

Doesn't mean he he he didn't exist. He took on flesh Yeah, that one single spirit.

01:17:54

But but the way you're saying it there's different there's different entities I'm I'm not saying it the way you keep

01:18:01

I'm not saying the body I've been very clear that Jesus is Eternal he always existed.

01:18:09

I've said that several times You're having We agree on that we agree on that Okay Yeah So is

01:18:22

Jesus God, but the way that you're That's your doctrine and the way that you're interpreting scripture.

01:18:29

You're saying that that flesh and bone body was God That's what you're saying.

01:18:34

So so You You earlier said

01:18:40

God died on the cross Yeah, so that's what you're saying.

01:18:46

This is why when we do apologetics It's good to to as I said in the beginning to understand what someone is saying

01:18:53

If you guys go back and listen, you're gonna notice I never once Said that Jesus was just the body as he continues to make the point

01:19:05

So This is what what you have to do when you do apologetics is to break down to understand people's arguments

01:19:13

What you'll often see is what as with Andrews doing he wants to read a narrative into what he thinks

01:19:20

I believe even when I say I don't believe it. I Have to believe it because the only way to make his narrative work

01:19:27

I'm trying to fit within his paradigm of just reading the scripture and what does he have to keep doing? He has to read something and well, we got to go here.

01:19:33

We got to go there We got to go here to read this in but all I'm doing is reading it. That's what

01:19:38

I'm doing Okay, so Andrew, this is I'm saying this to you because I hope you understand you have to actually engage with what

01:19:47

I'm actually saying like I'm trying to do with you and Not engage with what you wish

01:19:52

I would say because it makes your system work right Jesus is not just a body right, so Let me ask this okay, because we do have only a few minutes 20 minutes left

01:20:11

What distinction is it that you make between Jesus being God or the Son of God?

01:20:22

I'm not sure I understand the question Well the topic you wanted to discuss

01:20:28

Versus was whether Jesus is God or the Son of God You you obviously see a distinction between those two.

01:20:35

I don't I Think the Son of God is a title for God You see it as a distinction

01:20:42

You just said it a few minutes ago that Jesus is the Son of God not God So what is this distinction you make between those two?

01:20:51

Mmm Yeah, I was under the impression that that was basic knowledge that The Son and the

01:21:00

Father are not the same thing So you don't believe the Son and the

01:21:05

Father are the same thing. I Don't know that that's that That exists anywhere,

01:21:12

I don't understand what you don't understand I'm trying to understand what you believe and so I'm asking you're saying something here's you're making an assumption or an assertion that goes against What anybody since the beginning of time has believed that the how can a father also be his own son?

01:21:38

That's what you're asserting so you have to explain you have to explain that Not me.

01:21:44

Sure. I can explain that It's not a physical father and son.

01:21:50

It's titles What does son of man mean when

01:21:56

Jesus You explain Title I said that you said it wasn't so it doesn't matter.

01:22:05

It still doesn't make any sense It doesn't matter that you say title. So when Jesus calls himself the son of man, what is he saying?

01:22:16

She's a man born of a woman So when he says he's son of God, what is he saying? He's also son.

01:22:24

He's all the only begotten son of our father Hmm interesting you didn't say it the same way you didn't just say it means he's

01:22:32

God because he said he was man Son of man, you said correctly means he's man, but son of God you had trouble saying that means he's

01:22:39

God It means he's God Title because it doesn't so why would

01:22:47

I say that if it doesn't mean that so it's son of son of God doesn't mean He's God. I Don't know under what son of man.

01:22:56

What is something with linguistic gymnastics that you have to do in order to think that Somebody's also

01:23:03

Their father and they're also their own son. I didn't have to do any gymnastics I asked you what son of man means and you were answered you

01:23:12

You were able to figure that out when I ask you what son of God is you can't seem to act use the same logic

01:23:18

That you use for one for the other No, you're the one doing gymnastics. They're son of man is a title of man of Being a man son of God is the title of being a god

01:23:31

That's what it is. One is man. One is God It means the the term son of means to have the attributes of Unless of course you think

01:23:44

John and James were the offspring of Like, you know the the outcome of the thunder from lightning bolts.

01:23:51

I don't think you believe that do you? Because they're called the sons of thunder,

01:23:57

I mean you don't think that To you know to lightning bolts got together in the thunder produced

01:24:02

James and John do you? Didn't we do this in the beginning when you said you weren't going to What's that?

01:24:10

What's that called in? In speech where somebody says something so outrageous

01:24:16

That it can't possibly be true and then they draw a connection to the thing that the other person is saying That's what you're doing, but I'm saying you're not gonna be that outrageous.

01:24:24

You don't what's that called? Is that straw man or what? Straw man a straw man is when you use a false definition, so it's easy to knock down What I'm doing is using equivalency.

01:24:35

You're using a false equivalency not false cozy the absurdum It's it's an argument from absurdum, right?

01:24:42

I'm glad you agree. I'm glad you agree with me good We got that so you're being absurd. You're being absurd. You don't believe that the term son of always means offspring, do you

01:24:55

Uh Say it again, please. Okay, so you're you keep referring to son and father being as if they're offspring

01:25:05

As if they're offspring. No the father is no the son is the offspring Okay, so you're saying that the title for father and title of son

01:25:17

Are not a title. They can't be a title. Is that what you're saying? In what context what do you mean title?

01:25:24

I don't know what that means Okay, so you're a term it's like we're um

01:25:32

I don't know what we're doing, but we're What we're doing is we're trying to be precise in our language and we're trying to get you to see

01:25:41

That you're playing games with language. That's what i'm trying to do here so I I said in the beginning that What i'm asserting is word for word in the bible in the scriptures what

01:25:53

I was doing Asserting words into it that weren't there what and what you're saying

01:26:00

We have to pluck out somehow in between the words in between the words Okay, but what i'm what i'm saying is

01:26:08

Like stop stop. You gotta stop projecting your behavior onto me though. Seriously I read you the verses and you're saying oh no, that means he's this

01:26:18

But that's not what that verse said you you're reading it in You kept doing that. So so here here's the thing

01:26:25

You're saying How can a son be the father and i'm saying that the term son of god like son of man like sons of thunder?

01:26:36

Is not referring to a son and a father the way you're using it Because if you're going to be consistent then james and john have to be the offspring of thunder which

01:26:47

I doubt very much you believe But you are able to understand when I say what is son of man mean you understood immediately that that means he's a man

01:26:58

It wasn't but two minutes ago. You excoriated me for for bringing in Bringing in another verse to explain the first verse now you're doing the same thing with james and john

01:27:09

How come you can do it, but I can't do it. Okay Because we're not talking about the verse we're talking about the title and what it means in that culture to use the word son of in that way

01:27:22

So I wasn't looking at a specific verse Would That was a terrible explanation for doing exactly what you told me not to do terrible it was perfectly within the context because You we were looking at a verse that I read to you and you were reading a meaning into it

01:27:40

You couldn't if when we're taking the meaning out of a passage we have to be able to get it from that passage

01:27:47

And i'm telling you that's what you did So, what do you want to do what passage tell me which passage where we were first one the first one we did in john john, uh

01:27:56

I am I am the I am verse where he says verily verily I say to you before abraham was

01:28:02

I am All right. Let me just walk you through this real quick 10 10 seconds

01:28:08

And then hopefully you'll stop saying that i'm changing the words We just a real quick half a step back

01:28:17

I am means god Okay. Yes, but i'm not changing the verse when

01:28:24

I reread it now now i'm going to read it knowing that I am means god before abraham god

01:28:32

I changed nothing I changed I changed nothing you left out a word

01:28:41

Why did you leave out was was it doesn't change the meaning

01:28:48

So Because the word because the word before is I mean also means was so Saying the same thing.

01:28:57

So we're in this verse where we're differing is who he's speaking about But do me a favor do me just one small favor since we're since we're almost best friends already

01:29:09

Just just tell me that I didn't change the verse just tell me that we have a difference

01:29:16

Of interpretation, but but please don't say that I changed the verse That's all

01:29:21

I hear a word, but you're you're When when I asked you this you said

01:29:28

That it was before abraham God god within jesus.

01:29:33

That's not what it says. I thought I had to explain to you the nature of The spirit and the flesh, okay, but he's saying

01:29:41

I am speaking of himself right That's where you were

01:29:48

The spirit inside of him is god And this is the thing this is where you start you're adding that's where I say you're adding it in it doesn't say

01:29:57

No, i'm only answering i'm only answering what you said. I'm not i'm not adding in I only did that to answer what you said

01:30:05

I I wasn't doing it when I was explaining it I only changed it to Rebuke what you said?

01:30:14

That's the only time I changed it so but if your rebuke Isn't fitting with the context of this verse right

01:30:25

Then that's a problem I disagree. I don't I don't agree with the way you're saying.

01:30:31

Okay, so then you're saying that the context doesn't matter We could just read whatever we want

01:30:38

No, i'm not saying that i'm saying that doesn't matter i'm saying it that the way that I said the verse which was word for word is

01:30:49

Is is the way it is when I am means god so before abraham was god That's what i'm saying.

01:30:55

I stick to that. That's what i'm saying And he's speaking of himself not a spirit within him.

01:31:02

He's speaking He's speaking we know that we know that he's speaking He's he's teaching.

01:31:10

Who's he speaking of who who is the object of the reference to being god god

01:31:19

Himself he's teaching about god. That's what jesus is here for he's here

01:31:24

As a sign now, let me ask you a question. So jesus is a sign, right? Can we agree that jesus is a sign?

01:31:32

I don't know how you mean that He's he's our big brother. He's somebody that we are to emulate.

01:31:39

He is perfect he is a sign, but when you when you're driving around down the road and you say

01:31:46

Uh, you see a sign that says bethlehem That's a sign, but you're not in bethlehem.

01:31:53

He's not the father, but he's pointing the way to the father The father's inside of him, so he's explaining to these guys

01:32:03

Before abraham god, that's who i'm here to represent. That's who i'm signaling you

01:32:11

That that's who I signal that's who I represent but he's never does he say if if Why doesn't he just say

01:32:23

I am god? He did Never No, no, no never hold on never.

01:32:30

Here's the thing never Yes, he did in a way that the people that day clearly understood.

01:32:36

I gave you the two verses But what they understood you're assuming what they understood you weren't there

01:32:42

Clear you weren't there. You don't can't assume what they understood and what they did What I could do is

01:32:47

I could read I could read what it says Why doesn't he just plainly say for the people 2 000 years later?

01:32:54

I am god Why doesn't he say that? Because he isn't because he isn't he said

01:33:00

I am Then he says I and the father are one they pick up stones and he says why are you picking up stones?

01:33:08

Because you're claiming to be god now They don't understand they don't understand

01:33:14

No, I think you understand because okay, let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question I know you're laughing because you think you you got me

01:33:23

Because you're ignorant you don't have you don't have to announce that you're going to ask a question just ask just ask it fdr

01:33:30

Was referred to as a very gay man. What did that mean? I'm, sure.

01:33:37

I don't have any idea what you're talking about He was referred to as a gay man Who who who are we speaking about?

01:33:44

Phil the president fdr Had four terms in office You know who he was

01:33:52

We're making we're drawing comparisons between jesus and fdr not at all I'm trying to see if you can answer the question

01:34:00

I can tell you before even you even ask the question. This is going to be a false equivalency

01:34:05

I can tell you that right now I'm trying to teach you a lesson to show you something fdr didn't have god inside of him.

01:34:13

That's that's the difference Okay, so the difference the point of the question is this the word gay

01:34:20

At the time of fdr meant he was happy Today, it means someone is a homosexual

01:34:26

Language changes you lack the understanding of that in culture that words can change meaning and people will communicate differently

01:34:36

And so you have you you have when when jesus is asked why don't you plainly tell us if you're the son of god

01:34:44

And he says you said it yourself I'll just i'll read it Matthew 26 Matthew 26 36 and jesus kept silent and the high priest said to him

01:34:55

I adjourn you by the living god that you tell us whether you are the christ the son of god

01:35:01

And he said to him you've said it yourself He agrees with them. He said let's when you look at the gospels 48 of the gospels jesus puts his deity on display

01:35:15

He says it through his words His witness and his works he is over and over demons recognize that he's god his enemies recognize

01:35:23

He said he's god. The only one that doesn't recognize he's god is you? Because he we read the verses and you have to keep reading that something into them to make it fit the narrative

01:35:37

I'm going to tell you why I think it's Why it's a problem Andrew I care about where you spend eternity.

01:35:44

Okay how does it how does it affect your doctrine if That body that died on the cross

01:35:52

Was not god. How does that affect your doctrine? Oh my Have you listened to anything

01:35:59

I said? Why do you keep going back to the body? What is your hang -up on the body when that's nothing of what i've said?

01:36:07

Because you said you said god You said god died on the cross So you're saying jesus isn't god

01:36:17

I feel like we're backing up going over backing up going over The issue is is that you want to say that it's it's not it's not jesus.

01:36:26

It's the spirit within him as if it's other John 424 god is a spirit

01:36:36

I agree He is not a body took on flesh

01:36:42

He got inside that flesh. That's not what it says. It says it took on flesh. It doesn't say He took it on that's right

01:36:51

It's still god Negative in flesh or not negative

01:36:57

Yeah, but you have no verse to support that You're making that up God to wit to wit that god was in christ

01:37:08

What verse is that? Second corinthians 5 19 to wit that god was in christ reconciling the world unto himself

01:37:21

Okay So verse 18 actually verse 17 start in context Therefore if anyone is in christ, he is a new creature the old things have passed away

01:37:31

Behold, all things have become new now. All things are from god who reconciled us to himself

01:37:37

Through christ who gave us a ministry of reconciliation Namely that god was in christ reconciling the world to himself and not counting

01:37:47

Their trespasses against them as he has committed, uh to us the world the word of reconciliation

01:37:56

So so what is what's the point that you're bringing that up What do you mean

01:38:08

Well, I just read the context. I mean, I don't know To wit that god was in christ, it's the spirit inside that body

01:38:17

That's the point Where's the word body here? I'm missing that help me understand

01:38:25

Christ is the body So you don't you're you're just a body.

01:38:31

You don't have an immaterial part of you I'm, not christ. So let's not talk about me. Let's not talk about people.

01:38:37

I have nothing to do with this so, okay, then please show me where jesus is

01:38:45

Just a body As you're claiming I never claimed that I never claimed that you didn't know

01:38:54

You know that you know Jesus is not just a body. He's body and spirit

01:39:03

Yeah So he's both So it's not it's not a spirit in him.

01:39:09

It's not a god in him. He is god I don't know how you got there

01:39:16

You have a you have a funny way of getting places though Let's try this again. It's really simple You believe that jesus is body and spirit, correct?

01:39:28

Amen Okay, and you you argue that it is that jesus is a body

01:39:34

I'm, not arguing anything. I I do not argue. I do not believe I do not argue.

01:39:40

I'm just reading what's in the scripture No, you're not so that that's why you're getting that's why you're thinking that maybe this guy's wrong

01:39:46

Maybe this guy doesn't know what he's talking about because you think that these are my ideas I I would you know what

01:39:53

I would much rather listen. Listen. I would much rather that the scriptures was one page one page

01:40:00

Because i'm a you know, it would be so much easier for everybody to understand but it isn't

01:40:05

I have nothing to do with this It's just what it says It says for thou art great and doest wondrous things thou art god alone

01:40:15

There's just one spirit one god So and he's inside That body of jesus that was sacrificed on the cross

01:40:25

So, let me let me ask you this is a question. I came in earlier from the here. I stand podcast the question for is

01:40:32

He's asking. Could you please explain the gospel? How is a man saved?

01:40:38

And what is the effective cause of salvation? How is a man saved?

01:40:45

Yes You go under the water in the name of jesus christ. You repent from your sins

01:40:53

You receive the holy ghost speaking in tongues And then you're in the church

01:41:01

That's how you get in christ church. Okay, so Let me ask you based on that. When is when is our?

01:41:09

our sin Paid for it's already paid for all of them from the beginning to the end.

01:41:18

They're all already paid for You just have to you have to accept that they are When when are they paid for?

01:41:26

When when jesus died on the cross? So I just have to I have to do what did you say all future sins were paid for Okay But you are collect so the debt is paid

01:41:41

The debt is paid But you you have to you have to understand that you have to accept that.

01:41:48

Otherwise, you're still in darkness So jesus death leads us into the light the light saying so you repent of your sins.

01:41:56

You're saying I was wrong You tell god i'm, sorry You go under the water in the name of jesus christ

01:42:03

For the and the scripture says for the remission of sins Remission of sins mean they're wiped away.

01:42:09

They're washed away Your sins are washed away with baptism

01:42:17

So you can't enter heaven with sin. So those sins have to be washed away. So it has there's no sin in it

01:42:24

Okay. Yeah, but yet according to colossians It was all paid at the cross and nailed at the cross

01:42:33

Right So why does it need for everybody? For everybody even the unbelievers, but if you don't believe it, then you can't collect you can't you can't be part of the church

01:42:43

So you don't believe it. You're saying there's only there's only listen to me. Listen There's only one sin that is unforgivable.

01:42:51

That's the sin of blasphemy the holy spirit So if you say that the holy spirit doesn't exist

01:42:58

You're you're saying I don't believe the price was paid I don't believe in the power of the blood

01:43:04

So you're not you're not you don't partake in its benefits All other sins can be forgiven through baptism

01:43:12

So are you saying that the jesus's death on the cross was not sufficient?

01:43:18

For what is it? Let me let me Just go back half a second Why why is it when

01:43:25

I say something you have to say? So what are you saying? I'm speaking clearly. No, you're not

01:43:31

I'm in teaching prophetically I'm speaking clearly It doesn't line up with what you think so you say

01:43:41

Let me so what you're saying is it's clear what i'm saying get baptized in the name of jesus christ.

01:43:47

That's it You don't have to say so what you're saying That's that's a work No No baptisms.

01:43:55

I work so you don't do it Who what is god? Who baptized

01:44:03

Nobody makes you do anything So you do the work of baptism You get it's not a work

01:44:10

It's not a work Then what is it? How do you interpret acts 238?

01:44:16

Do you just ignore that one you go over that one? No I actually

01:44:22

I actually understand very easily The fact is is that he's saying that you are to repent

01:44:27

And each one of you should be baptized in the name of jesus christ for the forgiveness of sins

01:44:32

So it's not saying you have to be baptized to be saved Baptism is a command after someone is saved

01:44:41

What's the point of it Oh, that's that's a great question. I'm glad you asked the point of it is so everybody else can watch you get baptized

01:44:49

That don't make any sense It don't make any sense It doesn't it doesn't make why don't you why don't you grow up in a middle eastern country

01:44:58

In a muslim country or in a jewish household and see what happens when you get baptized. I could tell you what happens

01:45:04

I could tell you for personal experience. What happens is your parents go casket shopping.

01:45:09

That's what they do To be baptized shows that I was willing to forgive my whole forgive or forbade my whole family

01:45:18

Because I knew that the moments my parents knew that I turned and received jesus christ

01:45:24

They went casket shopping. I was going to they were going to bury an empty casket and I would be dead to them

01:45:30

It is a cost that I had to count So what is the purpose of it the same purpose that so many muslims have to do in in countries where when they get baptized?

01:45:40

It is a public profession that they are a follower of jesus christ and in islamic law in jihad the the love of of in muslim, um sharia not jihad sharia in sharia you

01:45:56

Have to kill you're legally told to kill someone that converts from islam to any other language

01:46:03

So what's the purpose of it? it's to show that you're willing to make a sacrifice for christ in the sense that you're willing to to Put off everything this world has to offer

01:46:13

You don't have that here in america. I get it But you're not but these people here that we're reading about they didn't live in america

01:46:21

They lived under roman occupation in jewish areas And and so they fully understood the meaning of baptism that it was an outward sign that you were you had

01:46:33

We're going to lose everything You don't understand how strong getting baptized is for some people because in america

01:46:44

It's a simple thing you just go get dunked in water and it's almost a meaningless act for so many That's not what it was in the first century.

01:46:52

That's not what it is in many muslim areas When you're when you could be killed for being baptized

01:46:59

You don't believe that someone's really saved unless they have an outward act that to show Hey, they were willing to to get baptized.

01:47:06

They were willing to make a public profession That's what it means That's why it's so closely tied with salvation no different than in our day today

01:47:20

People will will if if you speak about being a christian and accepting homosexuality

01:47:26

People immediately question that person's salvation. Why? Because that's a watershed issue for our day

01:47:34

But in the first century to be baptized Was a watershed issue later in in the the second and third centuries when the romans were taking people's bible

01:47:43

If you gave up your bible to the romans, they questioned your salvation Is that your own is that your own personal testimony or do you have something close to that?

01:48:02

Because you sound pretty passionate about it. I just gave you my own personal testimony. My parents went casket shopping

01:48:08

That's what i'm asking you. I respect that So, yeah being baptized was not is not some little thing but it doesn't save me

01:48:17

The scripture says otherwise I can I can do I can do two things at the same time.

01:48:23

I can respect your testimony, which I do It sounds wonderful But what you're saying is not scriptural.

01:48:29

It's not from the scriptures You were said that's your testimony, which is awesome, by the way, it's awesome, by the way

01:48:37

But it's not it's not scriptural Okay, he says Listen just and john had been baptizing long before And and they had been baptizing long before that.

01:48:48

This is not a new thing That is the baptism of john is something it's a jewish ritual

01:48:55

Okay But they haven't but you made it sound like they just started doing it And it was for this and that and the other reason they've been doing it for a long time

01:49:02

Yes, and what happened when john was baptizing for repentance? He's doing a baptism.

01:49:08

That would be someone that's a gentile becoming jewish and that's why they thought it was so strange Acts 22 16

01:49:15

And now why tarry is that why wait? Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins

01:49:23

Calling on the name of the lord This is how you are saved You need to wash those sins away and you need to call on the name of jesus christ when you do it

01:49:32

Where does it say and this is how you are saved? acts 22 16 Okay, let me look in in the king james to see if you just have 22 16 in king james acts 22 16

01:49:49

Uh, and why tarryest thou Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins

01:49:56

Calling on the name of the lord I still don't see where it says and this is how you are saved as you read it.

01:50:03

It's precept upon precept Okay, if you if you read one scripture, it doesn't say all of which you want you're discounting it

01:50:12

When you add it, no, no, it's called proof texture when you add a read doctrine Precept upon precept.

01:50:19

Yeah, that's what the black israelites say and and what they do is they take a little bit of here and a little bit of there

01:50:25

You cannot add to scripture the way you just did. Hold on. Hold on a second. Hold on That's what the black israelites do.

01:50:33

So, okay We're now we're now we're doing what we established in the beginning. We weren't going to do

01:50:39

No, i'm not going to label people and say they're wrong just for that I just because just because you don't think that's a straw man because that's not what

01:50:47

I did Yeah, but just because you don't think that the blacks are the original jews doesn't mean they don't

01:50:55

Yeah, but there's truth you believe in truth, don't you? They the black israelites will tell you that the jews of today are europeans.

01:51:04

They're ashkenazi. They're not real jews. They're jewish Yeah, but they come to that they come to that not based on genetics

01:51:12

Or history they come to that because they take a verse out of context But that's up to them

01:51:17

Don't use them. Don't use them when you're trying to say something about me I don't have anything to do with the black israelites, but you're doing the same thing you're proof texting and I said that No, you're texting.

01:51:29

Do you know proof texting is? I don't care. That's the that's the more important thing. Ah, so you don't care how to interpret the bible

01:51:37

Listen, I read word for word. You didn't you added words. No, I did not it said wash away thy sins calling on the name of the lord

01:51:48

And you said which is how they get saved. Why do you have to wash away sins you tell me

01:51:55

You tell me why do you have to have just for fun Who is this speaking about people who are already saved?

01:52:08

Is it speaking of people who are already saved No, sir

01:52:14

No, so how can you be saved before how can you be saved before you're baptized? Because that's how you get saved baptism doesn't save you.

01:52:23

That's how you get saved. You're baptized. I know No, you get saved because of what christ did on the cross

01:52:33

That's where that's where you get saved. So so You know, let me andrew this is the reason

01:52:38

I think this is so important because You have a different god than the god of the bible and I know you think that what i'm saying is wrong.

01:52:48

I get it My concern is where you spend eternity because you're trusting in a baptism

01:52:55

You're trusting in a work when god said you're it's not your works if you believe

01:53:01

This is where my my passion is for you andrew You believe that your works will save you in in in what you do in baptism

01:53:11

And that says that what jesus did on the cross is insufficient That we somehow need to add something to that Where are you getting that from anything

01:53:22

I said When you have to be baptized to be saved that That's not what you said.

01:53:29

You said a whole bunch of other words that I never said Do you do you believe that? Let me let me let me

01:53:36

And you keep cutting it off so but i'm gonna because i'm not i'm not interested in your false doctrine Then don't don't tell me that what i'm saying is wrong when you're just not saying well i'm not interested

01:53:45

I'm, not interested in your false doctrine Ah, but let me let me give you An understanding because you keep misrepresenting me over and over and let me give you a let me give you a let me give you

01:53:56

A pro tip. This is a pro tip just for you. Okay When I When I teach to you don't don't say so what you're saying is

01:54:08

Just listen to the words i'm saying. Yeah, but the problem is I speak clearly The words you're very clearly

01:54:14

I speak very clearly and then why is it though that you say you speak so clearly?

01:54:19

And yet you say things two different ways And you're not being clear and when I try to i've never done that Never done that never done that you did that throughout

01:54:30

I've done that never. How do you like them apples? Not one time.

01:54:36

So so that's that's your argument. So even though you misrepresented not arguing not arguing at all

01:54:42

Yes, you are only No, you've brought me on here to get what the argument is. See this is a problem

01:54:49

You've brought me on here to get my point of view And you keep saying so what you're saying is so what you're saying is what you're saying is

01:54:57

It's clear what i'm saying. I I don't know. I can't tell how many people are watching I bet they're clear as to what i'm saying

01:55:05

They're clear actually. Yeah, you're right We you're right. So let's see. I know i'm right. I thank you for affirming my mary.

01:55:12

Todd says clearly but clearly wrong So you're right. He's he's saying, uh, someone else is saying yeah questions are done for clarification uh, so I don't understand what that means

01:55:24

It means that when I ask you a question, it's because it's not clear and i'm trying to be more precise

01:55:30

The problem is you don't work in your position You ask what you ask questions because you ask questions because you have a preconceived notion of what you think

01:55:39

I should be saying that's you mean you're not you're not no, no, you're you're being intellectual

01:55:45

You're being intellectually dishonest because you are you are not asking a question to learn

01:55:52

Your questions are your the aim of your questions is not to learn Okay, that is exactly what you did.

01:55:58

So stop i'm going to tell you again stop projecting your behavior You're telling me you've done it throughout here what

01:56:03

I believe i've corrected you and you continue To tell me that what I believe even though times

01:56:11

When I asked the question God, you kept going not the body. I never said that but you keep making that point

01:56:18

Why because it fits your narrative? This is the thing You're going to spend eternity in a lake of fire because you are following a wrong god and you're trusting not in what christ did alone

01:56:32

But christ plus your baptism I am concerned with where you spend eternity

01:56:39

Okay You could say it's false doctrine all you want But when you have to twist scripture

01:56:45

Then you're not being honest with it when you have to add things and you instead of Having an honest dialogue here with me

01:56:53

You're going to sit there and tell me what I believe and then say that that's what i'm doing to you And when and then you get upset when

01:56:59

I ask you for questions to clarify You don't like that That's not being honest andrew

01:57:11

All right Do we want to go over any do we want to go over any other scriptures or what do you want to do?

01:57:16

Well, we're at that time here's what I want to do. I want I want you to understand your questions

01:57:21

Do you have a callers for questions? That'd be great Yeah, well the question that we had was if you could explain the gospel and and you couldn't we did that we did that So yeah, what else you got?

01:57:35

Well as others are saying here it's it's you got to trust in christ alone And that's that's really the thing.

01:57:41

That's what we do. That's what we do. Yeah, that's what we do That's what we teach that's what we teach andrew my concern is you're deceived

01:57:48

Okay, let me ask you son You just ask it. You don't have to announce your questions.

01:57:54

Just ask it you said you that the black Hebrew israelites believe that they're the the line of of judah or Not all of them not all of them the the ones in america think that they're from the tribe of judah

01:58:08

The ones from the caribbean think that they're from the tribe of benjamin And and dan and yeah, so, uh, are they right

01:58:22

It doesn't matter to me i'm saying i'm a gentile and i'm saved either way so it does not matter to me

01:58:27

Okay, does truth matter to you? I do not I do not draw lineage from uh, the original jews

01:58:35

Did you not? Does truth matter to you? It doesn't matter to me. Yeah, it does it does um

01:58:43

So so jesse says pro tip just just listen to him. So He's telling you to listen to me

01:58:50

That's that's his pro tip for you. Um It's cool that you that you got all your buddies on here to back you up No, usually we get lots of people that don't agree and i'll put their comments up Usually drew's here and he puts up he knows to put up the comments that are against me as well.

01:59:06

I I don't mind Okay, but the the thing is I I care where you spend eternity.

01:59:13

We can skip that we can skip that. Mr. Rappaport. We can skip that brother. Andrew Skip it All right well

01:59:22

I i'm concerned for you. Can we still be best friends though after all this? I'm friends with a lot of people that are going to spend eternity in a lake of fire

01:59:31

But it just means I pray for you and um, You know You know, i'm i'm very concerned for you

01:59:39

All right Thank you. I appreciate you. I appreciate your good words so, uh, let me let me do this because I know it's the end of the show, uh, and I know at the very beginning

01:59:49

I did grab a uh Where was it? Um, we're talking very early on and humble clay was asking we're talking about jesus.

01:59:59

He he said jesus needs a needs one my pillow because uh They are a sponsor here is my pillow.

02:00:07

So Uh, he was very early on it I think asking for my pillow commercials Folks if you do want to go out and get yourself a good pillow

02:00:15

You can go to mypillow .com use the promo code sfe stands for striving for eternity And that lets them know that you heard about them here, so they'll continue to sponsor this show

02:00:25

Uh, they have a lot of different products right now I don't know if they still have any left, but they did have a large order that were rejected by a retail

02:00:31

Store and they have their my pillow standard which is actually selling the lowest price i've ever seen

02:00:37

Under 15. So if there was ever a time to try a my pillow now would be a good time I'll also say they make great christmas presents

02:00:44

I will also say this if speaking of christmas if you want to go to striving for eternity .org

02:00:51

go to our store For christmas as we've done in the past. We are offering our my book.

02:00:57

What do we believe? You can get it with free shipping with the coupon code christmas

02:01:03

So just go to striving for eternity .org click on the store from there you pick up the

02:01:10

What do we believe? And in the coupon code just put christmas and you'll get free shipping for that book

02:01:16

So that is what we are doing again for christmas. So if you need a christmas present for someone Go out and do that Last sponsor that we have is squirrelly joe's coffee

02:01:26

And if you want to get a good cup of coffee just go to squirrelly joe's go to striving for attorney .org

02:01:31

Coffee, you will get 20 off on your first order by using the promo code sfe

02:01:37

So encourage you guys to do that. I happen to love their coffee have it every morning

02:01:44

After a cold plunge, of course One other thing that I was going to say in the beginning folks is uh for folks who don't know

02:01:52

Got my brand new lsb the legacy standard bible Macarthur study bible they now have that out in lsb

02:02:00

Uh, it's a it's a nice Kind of, you know the cowhide but I gotta tell you something. This is nothing like a jeffrey rice rebinded bible

02:02:09

Even though I got it in cowhide. I almost want to send it to jeffrey rice and get it Nicely done, you know, this is done by the machine.

02:02:17

It's not the hand Handcrafted of of jeffrey rice Yeah, if you guys want to get a jeffrey rice handcrafted bible

02:02:24

Take even if you have your old bible you've had in your family for years in love You can contact him, uh post 10.

02:02:31

This is luxe, uh bible rebinding Uh, you can find him if you have trouble finding him just contact us at striving fraternity

02:02:38

Uh, and we'll get you in touch with him. I forget what his his website is offhand, but uh, he makes excellent excellent bibles

02:02:46

Uh, and I know uh someone in the chat I don't know who it was, but I said they were looking forward to seeing me at and here it is probably

02:02:55

Here I stand podcast looking forward to seeing yet in february at the war conference Uh, this is uh, the open air theology conference and this will be out.

02:03:06

Um I gotta look up the dates because I don't know it off the top of my head but in february we're going out

02:03:11

It's if you look for open air theology conference this year the reason it's the war conference is about Sanctification the war against our flesh.

02:03:20

Ah good. I should have picked up. Sorry about that claude He says it's me claude.

02:03:25

He will be one of the speakers if you've never heard claude preach, by the way Uh, you might want to go to the conference just to hear him preach probably one of the more passionate uh

02:03:37

Humble speakers you're ever going to hear A wonderful guy, uh, so yeah encourage you guys to come out and for that so Andrew, I do.

02:03:46

Thank you for coming on. Maybe we could uh, you know It might be interesting to have a discussion on whether we need to be baptized to be saved

02:03:55

I I think we would disagree on that but That's up to you Oh, I had a good time.

02:04:02

I appreciate the invite. Um If I could just have a word or two, uh, i'd like to uh

02:04:08

Uh, thank our lord and savior jesus christ Uh, I'd like to give honor and praise to him.

02:04:14

I'd like to acknowledge all the saints And the apostles of the past and present

02:04:19

And i'd like to say hello to all the saints out there and I appreciate you especially uh, brother andrew for inviting me you are

02:04:28

A gentleman and a scholar. I appreciate you Well, I do I thank you for coming on look the reality is is a lot of people talk a talk online on social media

02:04:39

You are someone that's willing to you know Well man up, you're not you're not a coward that's just behind a keyboard as a keyboard warrior

02:04:48

You will you're willing to come on to a show that where you knew that we disagree Um have a good discussion.

02:04:54

I think it was a good discussion. I think it was helpful for folks. Um And so I do appreciate you coming on Oh, yes, sir,

02:05:03

I appreciate you too. All right, so folks next week, uh, let's see

02:05:09

Next week is thanksgiving. So we will not have a show next week Um, no show next week for thanksgiving.

02:05:16

I hope everyone has a good time either with family or with friends having uh, some things that they will be thankful for but we will have uh

02:05:27

December 5th Because well, I guess I like people that disagree with me.

02:05:32

I will have my friend layton flowers on here So, uh anyone who knows layton, uh knows he is