The Perpetual Battle of Worship Music

Ephesians 5 and the Call to Corporate Worship

You'll, you'll note that on your lesson handouts that I had been giving you, we had an outline for ecclesiology, the study of the church, and the outline had included, well, I have it here, the outline had included what is the church, church structure, church leadership, church membership, church worship was the last one we did, remember worship?

And I said in that lesson that I was going to do a part two on worship to deal specifically with music and I was supposed to do that last week, I was out of town preaching in Ocala, I was driving back, I was ready to do it, I actually wrote this lesson while I was in Ocala in the hotel room when the kids went to bed and Jennifer was asleep, I stayed up late preparing to come back and then on the way back, Hope got sick and so I called Brother Andy and like a champ, he was ready to go and so he led last week, the whole lesson and I do appreciate that brother, you being able to pick up the whole, the whole time at a moment's notice, so this is what we were supposed to do last week but again, I was out.

Tonight, we're going to talk about the subject of worship music and I'd like for you to turn your Bibles to Ephesians chapter 5 and in Ephesians chapter 5, go to verse 18 and we're going to read verses 18 to 21.

Verse 18 says, And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart, giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

That is our passage for the evening to get us started on talking about the battle of worship music and I've entitled tonight's lesson, The Perpetual Battle of Worship Music and if you are not familiar with why I would title it that way, I would say that you probably have never been in worship leadership because if you've ever had to lead worship, then you will know it is a perpetual battle.

From people being unwilling to go to a church which does not play their favorite song, to people who believe all modern music is ungodly or demonic, to people who believe there's only one type of music and that's the hymns I know and love, it is a constant battle.

Recently my wife had a situation on Facebook where, and I don't know how many of you are on Facebook, but on Facebook there's groups that you can join and we've joined some local groups like the Oceanway Group, the San Mateo Group, those are the neighborhoods that we live in and sometimes people in those groups will say, do you have a church to recommend?

So we'll recommend, no, we'll recommend this one, we recommend our church and my wife recommended our church and Amy Frazier recommended our church, a couple of people that were on the same group all recommended the same church.

And about five minutes later the lady changed her post. She said, looking for a church, no Calvinists, King James only, hymns only. So I knew she weren't looking for us. She had three criteria, we didn't meet none of them.

So apparently, I guess she went and looked at our website and realized they're not the church I want to go to. But the thing, and you know, I understand the King James only argument, I don't agree with it, but you know, some people are convicted about that, certainly understand the difference between Calvinism and non-Calvinism and I understand that, but the one that always gets me is when people say, I only want to go to a church that sings hymns.

Now I will tell you this, I recorded a podcast, y 'all remember John Mercer? John Mercer used to be our music leader. He came up here and we did an hour and a half conversation on worship music. It's going to be out next week on the podcast because this week is all Reformation stuff.

So the lesson tonight will have an additional hour and a half if you want to go listen to two guys who both led worship talk about this subject because again, time is limited tonight and I don't want to make this a two or three part lesson.

So we talk a little bit about this passage, about the difference between a hymn and a spiritual song and a psalm and how to understand those words. And we talk a little bit about modern music and some of the differences.

But one of the things that he pointed out and I thought was really interesting was the idea of the hymn itself as not really being a form of music as much as it is simply a description of a song of praise.

And he made the point, in the ancient world there were hymns that were written to the Caesars, singing praises to the Caesars. There were praises that were written to the false gods of the Romans and the false god of the Greeks.

And what the word hymn means is a song of praise. So in that sense, you could put all of our Christian music under the category of hymn, so long as it is a song that is intended to praise God. And so when we say, when somebody says, well I only want a church that does hymns, okay.

How do you define hymn? Because most people, when they define hymn, they're not thinking so much of a type of song as much as they are talking about a window of time. Like for instance, Victory in Jesus.

I heard an old, old story, how a Savior came from glory. Remember that song? Yes. Would that really be a hymn? In the classic sense of holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, that we would classify generally as a hymn.

But Victory in Jesus, I would classify more in the realm of a country or a folk song. I heard an old, old story, sounds more like a folk song or what we might say southern gospel song. If we were talking style, right?

But most people who think hymns, they're fine with Victory in Jesus because they know it. Because it's been around, it's cut its teeth, it's grown up. So that's one of the things that is really interesting because the reason for the war of worship songs typically is more about personal preference of style than it is about the actual songs themselves.

The Importance of Music in Worship and the Corporate Nature of Singing

So tonight, I want to talk about the importance of worship music. I want to talk about the value of music because I really think music is so important. I've now this is we're coming up on a year of me being the leader of the worship team.

You know, we had Devin Steve that was before me. And then Brother Jim was here for many years before before them. And and then John was you guys were James Harper. He was the worst leader back. And then we had who was who was his grandfather?

James's grandfather. His grandmother played the organ. I think it's come on. I'm looking at two, three. Who was it, Pat? Ralph, thank you. Yeah, I know. I know Andy doesn't know. But there was Brother Ralph.

So I mean, we could go back and we could say, you know, we've had eight or 10 worship leaders. And it just so happens that at this point, I'm the one leading. And over the last year, I've learned a lot.

One, I've learned that not all of y 'all sing. Because I'll be out there singing and I'll look out and some of y 'all are you're waiting for the song to end. Oh, go now stepping on toes. Now I'm getting to it.

Am I being offensive? I'm not trying to be. It's true. Not everybody sings. God has called us to sing. In fact, this passage is proof, right? We're to we're to to to speak to one another in songs and hymns and spiritual songs.

And we are to be a singing people. I want to read to you from Matt. Matt Boswell's book, Doxology and Theology, says this, quote, When the church is gathered together in the name of God, only singing which glorifies him is appropriate.

We don't sing corporately because it was our idea. We sing because it was God's idea for his people. Since it is God who has commanded us to sing, it is God who will also determine what kinds of songs we sing.

We are to sing to him and for him. Our songs are not meant to be entertainment or a distraction from God. I think that was a good paragraph. He says, because because that's really the issue, right? One, we make songs about us when we're like, well, I like this song.

I don't like this song. It's all about this. It becomes about me more so than what glorifies God. That's that's one. But also when we think about who we're singing to and what we're singing for, we're singing because God is is worthy to be glorified.

God is worth it. You say, I don't like singing. You know what? I don't like playing tea party either. But when my seven year old pulls out the tea party stuff, she's worth it. That makes sense. I don't like getting down on the floor.

It's hard to get up past 40. Things are getting tough. But when my five year old boy wants me to sit on the floor, I sit on the floor because he's worth it. Right, so don't tell me I don't like to sing.

It ain't about us. If God calls us to sing, it shouldn't be about whether or not we like to sing. And it shouldn't necessarily be about whether or not we're a good singer. It's not about being the best singer.

But here's the thing I learned. I will tell you this. For those of you who don't know, I've had a very musical history. And I was seven years in the band. I was a band captain my senior year. I was four years in chorus.

I did solos in Pocahontas. I did solos in Greece. I was really a nerd in high school. But I did love music. And I was a part of all the musical things. And I learned this. When you sing solos, not everybody's a soloist.

But when you sing as a group, everybody can sing. Because the song blends us together. And every voice comes together to make that joyful sound. So when you say, well, I can't sing. Well, nobody's asking you to get up and lead.

Nobody's asking you to get up and be the soloist. We don't even do a whole lot of solos here. I can't even remember the last time we did a solo here. And you know why? By the way, in case you ever wonder why.

Because I do believe worship music is corporate. I think it's meant to be a group activity. Now, I'm not saying we would never do a solo. But in general, worship is meant to be participatory. And therefore, we generally don't do solos.

We might one day. I'm not saying it's a sin or wrong. It's just a lot of churches you go to, there's always three songs. And then somebody's going to do a special. Right? Or maybe you're going to do four specials.

Right? Because there's four people that want to sing. And oftentimes what happens is that becomes very me, me, me centered. I want to do my special. And Sister Sarah wants to do her special. And Brother Jerry wants to do his special.

Or whoever. And it becomes about the special. In fact, a lot of contemporary musicians, if you ever listen to their stories. I don't know if you've ever seen American Idol or any of those shows where they'll come out.

They always say, I got my start in church. Britney Spears got her start in church. Yeah, I know. Look at her now. Who's that one girl? Her father's a pastor. Big time. Big name. I forget her name. Katy Perry.

Big time singer. Always. Because the church. That's why I don't. You know, that's why we don't call our chancel a stage. I make a big deal about that. The chancel is where we preach the Word of God. It's a platform for preaching God's Word.

And leading God's people in worship. But it's not a stage. And some people say, oh, well, you're just you're stuck in the past using those old words. No, I'm not stuck. It's not about that. It's for me.

It keeps me from thinking I'm up here to perform. I don't get up there to perform. I want to worship God. I want to lead God's people to the throne of glory and worship together before the throne. That's the goal.

And I believe music is important because it brings us to the word. Why do we sing before we preach? Because the music is putting us in that place where we're ready to hear the word. Where we're in our hearts, bowing the knee, preparing ourselves.

What do we do? We sing. We pray. Then we hear the word. Right. And it's all about bringing us to that place where we're ready to be with God and his word and hear from his word. And we've spent a lot of time thinking about what we're singing.

How is this bringing the people to this place? We don't just haphazardly throw things together. I'm honestly Sunday night. I am preparing the next Sunday. I'm thinking the text I'm going to preach. The direction we're going to go because I expose to a creature.

So I know what text we're going to be in. But what's the direction of the text taking us? What's the thesis idea of the text? Therefore, what should we sing? What will bring us to the point where this week I'm preaching my every four year sermon.

Every four years I preach the same sermon. God will still be on his throne Wednesday. Isaiah 45. If you want to prepare your hearts for Sunday, read Isaiah 45. Because I'm going to preach particularly verse 18.

But it will be an overview of the entire chapter. God raising up the king and proclaiming by prophecy his position 150 years before he was ever alive. Amazing prophecy. And so that's what we're going to look at.

God is the one who raises up kings and presidents. And we have to be reminded of that. And I want us to be reminded. And we're going to sing some songs Sunday we don't normally sing. We're going to sing Mine Eyes Have Seen the Glory.

Now a lot of people think of that as a patriotic hymn. But it's really not. It's not about America. It's about the glory of God. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord. He has trampled down the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored.

He has loosed the faithful lightning of his terrible swift sword. His truth is marching on. And that's coming after the sermon. We're going to sing that to remind us God's truth will march on. Whoever is president, Christ is king.

And his truth will continue. So with that being said, I want to make another point. For those who are taking notes, if you want to write this down. Not only is music important in that it brings us to the throne of God.

And it has that purpose in the worship. Music also has a catechizing quality. That's kind of a weird word. I'll write it for you. The word catechizing comes from the word catechism. And a catechism is a technique of learning which has a strong historical pedigree in the Christian church where a person learns by memorizing.

My children learn. We give them the catechism. I forget which one. I think we're using the Baptist catechism. But it's in a book we bought. It's for children. So it's a basic version of the Baptist catechism.

And the first question is, who is God? No, no. Who made you? God. What else did God make? God made all things. That's how basic it is. But it gets even further. What's funny is, like it says, what's one of the questions?

Hope answered it so good the other day. Because it said, can you see God? It says, no, I cannot see God. But he always sees me. That's one of the questions and the answers. And the other day, Hope was interacting with Jennifer on something totally irrelevant.

And Hope said to Jennifer, she says, why can't I see God? And Hope said, what does the catechism say? And she says, God is spirit. Because that's what it says. Why can't I see God? So she thought back to what she remembered.

OK, God is spirit. And then she said, and he always sees me. She remembered from the catechism. And he always sees me. So catechisms were intended to memorize facts about scripture and about God. They have a very important value.

A lot of people think of them as Catholic. But the reformers all used catechism. So don't tie catechism and Catholic together. Do Catholics have catechism? Yes, but so did the reformers. But when I say music had a catechizing value, what I mean is this, you will remember a song much more than you will remember what I preach.

You may remember one or two things that I say in a sermon, but you'll go home singing the song. And therefore, this becomes an impetus to choose good songs. Because if the people are going to remember it, you better give them the good stuff, right?

That's part of it. Colossians 3 .16, you can write that down. You don't have to turn there. But this is what it says. It says, let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, same phrase he used in Ephesians, with thankfulness in your heart to God.

But notice what he says in that case. He says, teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs. So not only are psalms and hymns a way to encourage one another, but it's also to teach.

There's a teaching quality to psalms. This is why music must be theologically accurate. No matter where we land on hymns versus contemporary music, or whether we sing this one or that one, it's got to be right.

Theological Accuracy, Apostate Songwriters, and the Problem of Bad Lyrics

You know, this is really where the rubber meets the road on all this. Because the big issue today is whether or not we should sing songs written by certain artists. Because there are churches that have gone into apostasy.

Bethel Church is an apostate church. I say that without any fear of correction. I know Brother Rob would agree with me, Sister. I've seen, you know, some posts from him. Bethel's gone cuckoo. They're cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

They're out the door. New Apostolic Reformation. By the way, that's a theological term, cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. They're off. And so Bethel is so far out. And then you have Elevation, which is led by a man named Stephen Furtick.

They're off the reservation. There's a Hiltz song, which I don't think was always really bad. But it's definitely gone the way of the New Apostolic Reformation, especially in the last several years. And so the big question then is, well, should we sing songs written by those people?

That's another thing John and I talk about in the podcast. Because we sort of disagree on that. But it was a good, healthy back and forth. Because I tend to shy away from those songs. I tend to say if it's written by those churches, I prefer not to.

He doesn't feel the same way. And that's part of why we had that interaction, because we can respectfully disagree. But at the end of the day, though, what really matters is what it says. Because there are some songs in our hymn book that you all would love, but were written by heretics.

When peace like a river attendeth my way. When sorrows like sea billows roll. Right? It is well. You know this song. That man fell into grand apostasy. Does that make the song bad? You mean we shouldn't sing it?

So that's a question, right? That does lead to some other things. How about the Wesleys? I mean, they were hardcore Arminians. And a lot of the songs in the hymn book, a lot of the songs we love, were written by men who believed in a second blessing, sinless perfectionism, a lot of kooky, kooky stuff.

In fact, I would say this. You can trace the Pentecostal church back to the Wesleyan holiness movement. And so a lot of the, you know, special sauce of the kooky stuff has come, you know, fruit of the poisonous tree.

So now we have to start really thinking what really matters. I think the main thing that matters is what the song says. Can we have a discussion about who wrote it? Yes. Should that be part of the discussion?

Yes. What really matters is what the song says.

Yes, dear. Well, for example, if he wrote the song, and it's a beautiful song, and it's a spiritual song, and two months later, we find out he has an affair. That doesn't make the song bad. If it honors God, it honored him then, and it honors him now, and it'll always honor him.

Yeah, God's truth is, or all truth is God's truth, right? Belongs to him.

So I mean, that, you know, you can go so far picking at it that you don't sing anything. Sure.

And that's the other point, right? Is when someone says, well, if it's in the hymn book, it's good. The problem is which hymn book? Because there are hymn books that are exclusive psalm-nity. I remember I mentioned this a few weeks ago.

What is exclusive psalm-nity? Only the psalms, right? We have two new songs our worship team is working on. Psalm 46 and Psalm 119, or Psalm 139. It's two songs that are the psalms, but modern language written for modern hearers.

But it's psalms. I love that. I want to do more of that. I want to bring more of the psalms into our preaching. But some people think that's all you can do is psalms. And I think that Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3, was it?

It was Colossians 3, right? Yeah, Colossians 3. I think they allow for more than just the psalms because it says, speak to each other in psalms and therefore adding hymns and spiritual songs. But some people argue, well, he's just saying it the same way.

Same thing three ways. I don't necessarily agree with that. We could have that conversation another time. Think of how many wonderful songs, though, have been written. And think of this. If you sing only the psalms, only the psalms, you will never mention the cross.

You'll never mention the name of Jesus Christ. You'll never mention those things by name because those things were after the psalms were written. And I do think that that is a thing to be considered. But then there's another question.

And that is the question of not necessarily what song you sing, but how you sing it. Some people make a very big issue, not of what the song is, but of how it is played. I brought my guitar tonight because I wanted to talk about this very thing.

All right. So everybody sing Amazing Grace. Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. Was lost but was blind, but now I see like me. Anything change? I changed it to a minor chord.

A minor chord. If you're not familiar with music, major chords tend to sound very bright. Like this is an E minor or E major. But an E minor has a diminished sound. See the difference? It sounds, that's a major.

This a minor. Right. And when you play a minor, it sounds very different. So all I did was put it in a minor chord and it changes the whole feel of the song. And some people would say, that's wrong. You've, you have, you've taken something beautiful and you've made it ugly.

You've ruined it forever. And, and, and that is honestly often how we feel. I watched a video the other day about a guy or of a guy who was arguing that where you put the beat on the, on the note determines whether or not it's godly or not.

Have you heard this brother? No. Okay. You ever heard of Bill Gothard? Yes. Okay. You know who that guy is. Okay. All right. Well, this is one of the arguments that was made is like, um, what's that song?

Jesus loves me. This I know for the Bible tells me so. That's putting the emphasis on one and three. And he said, that's the godly way. He said, the ungodly way would be Jesus loves me this side. No. He said, cause that sounds like hip hop and that's bad.

So this is an argument. He said, because the, the, the two and the four are syncopated. That's what's called syncopation. Rather than putting the emphasis on the one and the three, by putting the emphasis on the two and the four, you're creating a syncopated beat.

And he made this, this long argument about how it creates feelings of, uh, trance-like behavior and how it can turn people into mindless zombies. I, I think I disagree, but you see though, I'll give you an example.

There's a guy by the name of Shy Lin. Shy Lin is a, it's a Christian hip hop artist. He is a rapper and he writes rap, but he writes it for reformed lyrics. And his, he's written songs about irresistible grace.

He's written songs about total depravity. He's written songs about false teachers and he names them by name. Don't listen to Osteen. Don't listen to, uh, uh, Paula White. Don't let, he like names them off.

And you may not like rap, but that sounds good because it's, it's nailing them to the wall. Now, again, we're, we're kind of away from the concept of what we use for worship necessarily, but you understand.

I think that there's something to be said for the idea of the difference between worship music and worship lyrics. I think worship music can change depending on the culture of the people that you are in.

So for instance, if I were to go to China or to Africa, the, the culture of music would be different, but the words would still be right and accurate and true. And therefore, when somebody says, well, I don't like the way the music sounds, that is almost always cultural more so than it is biblical.

However, there are biblical song or biblical reasons to reject certain songs. And I'm going to give you a few thoughts about a few songs. And I even gave you a hymn book tonight. I thank you, Nicole, for helping me because if you'll give me an extra five minutes, I actually want to do something fun with you, but I'm gonna give you four songs that I don't like.

And, um, I'm gonna give you the reason why I don't have the page numbers though. So you won't be able to look it up, but I want you to look up. Maybe you have a song you like, and we're going to look at it.

But the first one is called, And Can It Be. Anybody know that one? And Can It Be was written by Charles Wesley. I want you to listen to this verse and tell me what you think of this verse. Speaking of Christ.

250. Okay. Anybody wants to look it up? Page 250. It begins. He left his father's throne above. Y 'all see that? I'm not sure where it is in the song. I'm not looking. I'm looking at my page. Second verse.

He left his father's throne above so free, so infinite. His grace emptied himself of all but love and bled for Adam's helpless race. Anybody notice something wrong with that? Okay. There is a doctrine called the doctrine of kenosis.

And it talks about Christ divesting himself of his glory when he came to the earth. But Christ did not divest himself of his divinity. He did not divest himself of his nature as God. He did not divest himself of all but love.

Therefore, Wesley got it wrong. This song causes us to sing something that would not be true. Theologically, this is a huge problem. You may not see it like I see it. But this is a problem because it's teaching us something that's not true about God and about Christ.

Now, here's one that's going to cause y 'all to maybe get mad at me. Look up, he lives. Oh, I know. I don't get mad at me because I might. You just listen to my argument before you throw the tomatoes.

It's been a while. It's been a while. Brother Andy, am I getting too close to the toes? All right, so what we got it. I serve a risen Savior. He's in the world today. I know that he is living. No, no, whatever men may say.

I see his hand of mercy. I hear his voice of cheer. And just the time I need him, he's always near. He lives. He lives. Christ Jesus lives today. He walks with me and talks to me along life's narrow way.

He lives. He lives. Salvation to impart. You ask me how I know he lives. He lives within my heart. How do you know Christ lives? Because the word says so. This song places the knowledge of God's Savior raising as a subjective thing, not an objective thing.

I think that's a, I think that's a huge deal. For me, it's a huge deal. I do not think that we should say to someone, you know how Jesus lives. He lives in my heart. No, Jesus lives because he is, the word says so.

Not because, because what if he didn't live in your heart? Would that mean he didn't live? It's not subjective. It is objective. Now, you may take issue with my, my argument on this, but this is one of the songs that I'm not a huge fan of because I think it places the, it places the resurrection of Christ into the realm of the subjective rather than the realm of the objective.

I'm not saying you can't sing it. I'm not saying we won't ever sing it. I'm just saying this is one of those times where I think this song says something that isn't as clear as we should be. Now, here's, go ahead, Bill.

Let's do one.

I was just going to say, because of what you just said right there, everybody has to be fully persuaded in their own mind. And I think we've got to be careful that the reason why we will sing or not sing is because we're convicted we should sing or not sing.

Not because someone else tells us to.

Yeah. Yeah. Again, I'm giving you my opinion on these things. I think that a lot of this is subjective. A lot of it comes down to that kind of thing. But let me ask you this. These are not in the book, so you don't have to turn your pages anymore.

There's a song that came out very recently. It is called Reckless Love. And it goes, oh, the never-ending, overwhelming, reckless love of God. That's the name of the song. Now, a lot of people really like that, the same way you really liked that last one we just sang.

But could our preference not be because we grew up singing that last one, but we didn't grow up singing the other one? And I would say this. I don't like Reckless Love either, because I think it says something about God's love that makes God seem capricious.

I don't think that it really describes God is not a reckless God. He is a purposeful and almighty sovereign. So I don't like Reckless Love as a song. That's why we haven't sung that one. We've sung He Lives, but we have not sung Reckless Love here.

Miss Charlene, Brother Rod, who leads the worship at Charles Church? We all do it cooperatively. Okay, but is there somebody at the front that leads? Who chooses the songs, I guess is what I'm saying?

He does. Okay, has he ever come across any of this and had to deal with like Reckless Love? Has anybody ever asked to play this song?

No one has ever asked to play that, but he is very particular, like you are, what songs he sings. They have to glorify God. Absolutely. Some of them are contemporary, I guess you could say, but it's the words, like you were saying.

That's it, that's right. What does this song contain? The words in the song is what's important. It glorifies God, you know, if it takes the attention off Christ and put it on us, no, people don't like those kind of songs.

Absolutely. It has to exalt Christ.

Absolutely. I didn't mean to call you out like that. You being from Brother Rod's church, sometimes I like to hear how other people do it. I want to mention this though. There's another one. How many of you have ever heard the song, Oh, How He Loves Us?

Oh, yeah. No, the new one. I didn't think about the fact that there's an old one called that too. That's another thing that's hard too, but it starts with this. He is jealous for me. Love's like a hurricane.

I am the tree. I'm making the face because it really gets strange, but it gets even stranger later when it says, So heaven meets earth like a sloppy wet kiss and turns my heart violently inside my chest.

Now again, some people find great emotion in that. I think it's too sloppy for me. The sloppy wet kiss is a little more sloppy than I want to get personally. So is that song necessarily wrong? Some would say it's objectively wrong.

Should not sing that song. I think that there is some arguments that can be made. Here are basically three things to consider. Number one, I think we should be careful with songs that make Jesus sound more like a girlfriend than a savior.

I call them Jesus is my girlfriend songs. When you can take the same words and sing them to your lady than to your savior, it doesn't, to me, seem like a worship song. It seems more like the type of love man to woman rather than worshiper to God.

So I call those Jesus is my girlfriend song. So I try to avoid those. The second one is I do take issue somewhat with the extremely repetitive. Now, I have to consider this. The angels around the throne of God say, Holy, holy, holy all day long.

So there is some benefit to repetition. And some of our old hymns have some repetition built in. But some of the songs are repetitiously almost to the point of of annoyance. Hypnotic, hypnotic, hypnotic.

Yes, I don't have the video to show you. But there's a song and I think it was Hill song that did it. It may have been may have been Bethel, but they sang a song that it went. Listen to the rhythm, the rhythm of heaven.

Listen to the rhythm, the rhythm of heaven. Listen to the rhythm, the rhythm. And they did it like 10 minutes. And then at one point she goes, I want to hear your heartbeat. Like she did this one like part and then right back to listen to the rhythm.

I tell you what, it was more than I could take just watching the video. It was just yes. You sound just like my husband. OK, but you know what I'm talking about? That's right, 7 -11. Yeah, it's over and over and over.

It's it's and again, I don't mind repetition, but I think that there is a there is a certain sense in which it is intended, like what you said, brother. It becomes intended to create a hypnotic effect.