The Monument Debate

Welcome to the conversations that matter podcast. My name is John Harris. We are gonna talk today about the monument debate in the

United States of America In fact, I actually do hesitate. I should clarify to call this a monument debate because it's not really a debate so much as it is

Those who would want to take down symbols representations of heroes

Artifacts of history from the nation's past or local histories past in the nation. They are winning

They are winning all over the place and most of the time local municipalities are taking down these monuments

It seems like without any kind of vote Or if it is a vote, it's very quick The public doesn't know about it.

And before the public is informed the monument is gone. That's happening on the state level It's happening on like I said local level and then of course the events that get the most coverage are when mobs protesters vandals etc go into a community with the

Intention of taking down a historical artifact or a symbol of some kind and so they're doing that of course

Illegally, and they're not being punished very at least I haven't seen examples of people being published punished very often for it so those who are like myself who

Love history and hate seeing some of these things taken down. We we feel at least like we're in the minority now

We may not be but the conservative movement if you want to even call it that I hesitate to even

Call it that anymore but the the opposition to the left whatever that movement is is really split on this and I'm gonna explain that debate as best

I can to you and why that dynamic exists And I also want to talk about as Christians and and then conservatives but Christians first How should we think about what's going on?

What about people that have flaws because everyone does every I mean as Christians We believe every single person has sin, right?

So what about honoring? People and events or at least marking that that an event has taken place in the history of a region

How should we? navigate this and I'll say this right off the top.

I don't think There's a silver bullet in all of this. In other words, I don't think the you can find chapter and verse

This is what the Bible says. You shouldn't remove The Robert E Lee monument because it honors the

Lord, right? You're not gonna find that verse Specifically stated in Scripture, but what we do have our principles like most things

We have principles that we can work off of and I think we can come to a pretty solid

Understanding at the end of this video that what's going on is wrong big picture not Big picture ever everything

I've seen at least has been wrong the way it's been handled The reasons for getting rid of some of these things just about now

Maybe you're gonna try to come up with well, look at this specific monument. Don't you think this one should be removed? I'm I haven't seen everything but everything that I have seen

I'm pretty comfortable saying Is has been evil at least in the motivations being used to pull these things down now

That doesn't mean some people with good intentions are behind it supporting it But I think overall there are those who brought this conversation up those who want these things taken down their intentions are not good

And so we're gonna get into some of that But before we jump into some of that, I do want to give you some announcements announcement number one

My wife and I actually went away for the weekend and had a great time first in Tennessee We were in Nashville for about a

I guess two days total and really enjoyed ourselves there one of the things this is actually related a little bit to this monument debate, but one of the things

I noticed about Nashville is Those who are new and up -and -coming in Nashville country music singers people that are trying to be country music singers

They kind of have a respect for the history of their genre in other words when you're walking down that that main road in Nashville where there's all these, you know, honky -tonks and there's

All sorts of tourists touristy stores, which I went in a few of those. Actually. I got some some gator boots

I love cowboy boots And I only usually own a pair or two and and every single pair that I've had has been given to me except one

This was I think the first time I actually tried on a pair Actually second time there there when

I was 16 I had bought this really cheap pair for like 60 bucks or 40 bucks or something in an outlet in El Paso, Texas I still remember though.

They were actually very comfortable boots, but I ran right through those but but this pair that I got from Nashville is alligator and Those as those who wear cowboy boots know alligator boots are very expensive generally and I got these for a steal

I mean it was just it was a great price and they they look great. They feel good And and so I told my wife

I said these are my birthday and Christmas presents, right? but I have now my brown pair of boots that were that was given to me by my uncle and I have

Have these alligator boots which are more dark and some of you probably don't care about that But it's related a little bit to what we're talking about because to me there's there's symbolism behind even some some of the things

I wear Boots like that. I mean I have two pairs of boots. I have one.

I'll tell you this I have one pair of ostrich boots. They're like 800 bucks one of my uncles Gave them to me right before he died and I I mean

I wore these things for years and now they have holes in them I can't wear them. I still have them. There's sentimental value attached to these things.

They remind me of my uncle I did so many things in those boots. I mean they've been across the country with me

I have another pair that I can still wear from another uncle on the other side of the family Who also died right after he gave me the boots and their sentimental attachment that I have and where my uncle's perfect no

Were they always doing the right thing when they were wearing their boots? I don't know but they remind me of my uncle and both of them and and so I have an attachment to them because of that and and so we're gonna we're gonna talk a little bit about Sentimental attachment as we even talk about these historical artifacts that are being taken down But all that to say getting back to Nashville There's a respect for Hank Williams and Johnny Cash and you know, some of these old -school country artists

We went to the Johnny Cash Museum while we were there and my wife really enjoyed that She doesn't like a lot of country music, but she really has a a lot of people are like this

You know, they don't like country music, but Johnny Cash, you know, they like him So my wife is a little bit like that. She liked Johnny Cash and of course,

I like most of it so I I am thoroughly enjoyed our time there and And and it was nice seeing people who didn't throw

Throw all all tradition under the bus I mean I could still walk down the street and I was hearing some folks playing songs like, you know country roads and He stopped loving her today and and some of these older songs that That I just don't know if other genres would tip their hat to the guys that were singing you know 70 years ago like country music does but But that that's what we experienced a little bit of and and it was refreshing it was nice and But the reason that I was in Tennessee actually was was because it was the closest airport

Nashville was to where we spoke where I spoke in Kentucky at Russellville at Willow Creek Mennonite Church and Had a really really good time with those brothers really generous people really just down -to -earth nice humble people

I I just really loved Speaking with them fellowshipping with them and It was just I had never been in a

Mennonite Church before and so as I understand it They're more this particular Mennonite congregation is a little more progressive and I hope

I'm getting that right But not progressive in a political sense But more so is you know, they're not legalistic about necessarily what you should wear or shouldn't wear but they have a

Mennonite tradition and So I just really enjoyed my time there These are some of the most kind generous people and they just really want to hedge against social justice

And so it was really good to talk to them And so thank you for those out there from the

Willow Creek Mennonite Church and those who came from other places To hear me. It was a joy and And so that's why we were there, but we did spend a few days in Nashville.

My wife enjoyed that We have some friends there. So we visited with them and And I'll tell you what.

I mean look they got country music. They got barbecue all over the place I mean, it's 4th of July. So we saw fireworks and I was kind of like this is kind of this is my speed right here

You know, and of course living there isn't the same I'm sure as vacationing for for two days. But anyway had a great time one more announcement before we commence to the topic at hand

Judge Saul the director of enemies within the church reached out to me while I was in Nashville And told him

I couldn't really do anything while I was there, but now that I'm back There there's a special $25 ,000 as I understand it $25 ,000 matching

Someone who's gonna match donations for the film if you want to donate So there's a matching donation if you feel inclined to donate to the enemies within the church film which

I know Judd really wants this to come out soon, and I think he's felt kind of like he's

Been right around the corner from releasing it for probably the last year But he there's just a little bit of money.

He needs to make up to be able to Pay for advertising and and so it's exciting.

There's some materials. I will tell you this a little sneak peek I have a book that I will be putting the finishing touches on this week that We're gonna try to kind of incorporate with the release of the movie and it's a history of how how do we get here in?

evangelicalism and so I've traced some of that and And so Judd Judd would love it

If you donated you can go to the info section of this video and you can find enemies within the church

Their web page and you can go there and give them a donation and it will be matched up to $25 ,000.

So That's some good news on that front. And I think those are all the announcements that that I have for now

So let's get into the topic at hand. We're gonna be talking about History and so I thought you know

It would be good at least to talk a little bit about what history is before we talk about historical monuments

This is a definition by dr. Clyde Wilson, and I really like this definition I mean, there's others who

I'm just gonna tell you this if you want to go deeper on these things John Lukas I think is a great historian to to study.

He understands historiography I think Herbert Butterfield is a very good historian to study.

He understands historiography but Dr. Clyde Wilson, I thought had just a really good definition that not only tells you what history is but contrasts it with Really the spirit of the age and I think he wrote this like more than 20 years ago.

So Very appropriate for today though history is not so we're starting with what it isn't history is not an expression of abstract laws or the record of progress

It is a description of the actions of men of life Which in turn is an expression of the partly unknowable mind of God Let me read that to you one more time

History is not an expression of abstract laws or the record of progress It is a description of the actions of men of life

Which in turn is an expression of the partly unknowable mind of God. What does this mean?

sounds almost Pantheistic right history. What do you mean? It's the mind of God. He's not saying it's literally the mind of God What he's saying is that they're actually if you want to look at history as The way the way that most people look at it today a progressive understanding of history

You're gonna look at history as a struggle Okay, it's and especially as you during like Black History Month or Pride Month You hear that word struggle an awful lot

History is the struggle to attain something some abstract principle of some kind usually equality inclusion diversity these kinds of things so history is this march towards a goal and If you look back through the record, you're gonna see leaps forward.

You're gonna see okay Slavery ended that was a leap forward towards this goal women were given the right to vote

Hey, that's another leap forward towards this goal We implemented free public education

Wow, and it's on a federal level. It's well -funded. That's a leap forward towards this goal Homosexual marriage is the law of the land because well, it's not the law of the land

Supreme Court declared it to be Legal, so that's a that's a leap forward in this understanding

So so, you know a liberal minded person in the United States would look at history perhaps that way

And we're just everything is getting better Everything in the past is bad and and the better it gets right towards equality quote -unquote the worse the past looks and so You know going back 300 years.

I mean, that's that's barbarism. That's that's a horrible time of colonialism and Going back 200 years.

We had slavery. That's that's really bad Now, I mean we're starting to rip down things from the progressive era

Like Woodrow Wilson's name has come off some buildings at an Ivy League school So because he said very racially insensitive things there's a lot of progressives did

I mean that was the time when Otabenga is in the Bronx Zoo. I mean this this was Progressives at that point in time were very influenced by Darwinian evolution and they use that to advance scientific racism

And so so now that stuff has a lot of that stuff has got to go. Of course Evolution is not

Darwinian evolution is not Seen as the evil bad, you know influence and all that.

It's just it's just white privilege It's just these racist but now but now all that has to come down. So as we get more and more

Closer to this goal of equality or equity if you want to say that word, which is what they're using now we ripped down more and more things from closer in the past in other words

At this point when does good history start is it? 1970 is that when we're finally, you know, the

United States of America has dealt with the civil rights movement So now we're past that now. We're not a racist society

Well now you have to deal with the fact that it wasn't until what? 2015 I think when

Same -sex marriage was legalized. So if if now we're gonna go by that standard well,

I guess we were all bigots until 2015 and then and so you see Celebrities and actors and people in the public eye who are apologizing for things that they did five years ago you know whether it's blackface or they just they were just impersonating someone and use an accent or They said that maybe it's not good for women to serve

On the front lines in the military or don't ask don't tell might have been a good policy I mean the list goes on they said something considered now to be wrong and politically incorrect and now they have to go do penance for it or be fired for it and canceled and so So so that's what history is right this

March of Progress Hyde Wilson saying no, no, no. No, that's not what what actual history is history is a description of the actions of men of life and In turn this is an expression of the unknowable mind of God So what makes sense of the actions over the past 500 years?

Let's say thousand years 1 ,500 years What makes sense of the actions of men in that time? Well, there's a creator who made these men and the creator has a sovereign plan and In in this story of humanity the creators plan is unrolling what the creator wanted to have

Done what the creator is moving towards is actually taking place and there's good there's bad

But but the creator is the one that actually has is controlling things in a sense

And I'm not talking determinism here. Okay, that's that's for another episode We can talk about that that stuff but but I'm talking about just the fact that the creator has a plan that things are moving towards some kind of Conclusion that there's gonna be an eternal state

And of course as Christians, we know Christ is gonna come back. He's gonna set up a kingdom and we will rule with him those of us who are in him and so and and there will be no shedding of tears and True justice will happen after this life, but but there is significance to this life because the creator made it and It's it's more than just an opportunity to receive salvation

Societies are built Cultures are built Technology advances, there's all sorts of things going on and The creator meant for these things to happen

That's the point that there is some kind of I think that the best movie that gives a sense of this that I know of Is a

Lord of the Rings? Where you know, there's a scene where Frodo and Gandalf are sitting there talking to one another and Frodo says

I don't know why the ring came to me I don't know why all these bad horrible things are happening and and Gandalf basically says it's not meant for us to know all of that we we just we fulfilled the responsibilities that we have and we rise to the occasion and we

Fulfill our duty in the best way that we possibly can for a higher purpose Not knowing exactly how that purpose is going to be revealed or what it always is

But we know that purpose exists because there is a creator. There is a plan Okay So this is what history is

History is these are the actions of men and we can't always look at those actions and know exactly what the creator was doing

But we know there is a plan that does exist. There is a purpose for these things and And we can look back in the historical record and we can study it and we can tell the stories of men all of them flawed but all of them

Representing certain things certain qualities some of them eternal qualities that we can then emulate and so So this is

Clyde Wilson's understanding of what history is and for the United States of America There's a there's a national history suppose, you know, quote -unquote.

There's a history of the country. There's state histories There's local histories. There's regional histories and these histories tell a story about the people the life in those areas

So that's what history is That's what makes history different in one place to another that's what makes their cultures different I should say is that hey they different histories and these histories influence them in different directions and It came out in their food and their culture and their political ideas and so forth and so on So here's some scriptural things.

I just wanted to consider here terms That you see throughout Scripture God of our fathers Well, that's a reference to history whenever you see

God of our fathers We're tying our concept of God back to Something in the past.

This is the same God our fathers worship. There's a continuity there So there's continuity in history in the fullness of time.

You see that Phrase used quite a bit there. There's a plan There's God had a specific time in this sense when this term is most off -quoted when

Christ came to the world It was in the fullness of time It's exactly when he wanted Christ to come

Psalm 78 forces this we will not conceal them from art from their children But tell to the generation to come the praises of the

Lord and his strength and his wonderers Wondrous works. There we go, which he has done

This is a psalm of Asaph and he's saying that History is important here because we're looking back at the wondrous works, which what past tense

God has done History should be important for a Christian Here's another one

Deuteronomy 32 7 through 8 remembered the days of old consider the years of all generations Ask your father and he will inform you your elders and they will tell you when the

Most High gave the nations their inheritance When he separated the sons of man He set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel.

So Again, Deuteronomy 32 is saying this memory is important history is important and things happened within this this

Chronological narrative when God the Most High gave the nations their inheritance He separated people and these would get into to land land boundaries legal issues

I mean you can't have a law system, especially when it comes to property if you don't have a history of some kind He divided people up he set the boundaries of the people so there's an importance given to history in Scripture and and this is just kind of This is basic stuff this is

This is something that's inescapable when you read the scriptures because the Bible itself is a historical book it's a historical narrative so much of it and and God expects us to understand thousands of years of history to understand what he did what his plan was for salvation and consummation

So here's some other things that history can do and this is this is in regards to the scripture and the law of God But it inspires righteous living now these things happen to them as an example that they were written for our instruction upon whom the ends of the ages have come 1st

Corinthians 10 11 and Then Romans 15 forces this for whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instructions so that through perseverance

And the encouragement of the Spirit we might have hope so history can bring hope When we're focusing on things that God has done in history

It can bring hope it can inspire It can teach think of Hebrews in the

Hall of Faith and these men of whom the world was not worthy These men are to be held in high regard

Right so so there's something special about certain things that happen in history not everything that happens is

The same it's not given equal value in Scripture There are certain things that are valuable to remember and to make part of our memory

So why have monuments what are monuments about and I put a little picture of here the Washington Monument and and the tip of it

This was the inscription that was put there Los Deo Meaning praise be to God you think the

Washington Monument is a little more than just George, Washington Or do you think there's something else going on here?

Maybe maybe there is maybe maybe praise be to God says you know what this this is actually bigger than just George, Washington And who he was as a man, but he represented something and what he did represented something and people are thankful for that Here's some scripture for you

There are monuments or you know public physical acknowledgments of past historical events in Scripture There's a number of them, and I'm sure

I don't have all of them here but here's a few first Samuel 12 11 through 12 the men of Israel went out of Mizpah and pursued the

Philistines and struck them down as far as below Beth Car Then Samuel took a stone and set it between Mizpah and Shenn and named it

Ebenezer saying thus far the Lord has Helped us and of course we all Probably know the song come thou fount, and there's this line here

I raise my Ebenezer and no one knows what an Ebenezer is right well here you go. Here's what an Ebenezer is it's a monument

It's a monument He takes this stone, and he's saying that this is my Ebenezer that thus far the

Lord has helped us So this this is an honoring to the Lord physical mark or honoring what the

Lord helped them do and it's it's Gratitude for a historical event Here's another one and Joshua said to them cross again to the ark of the

Lord your God into the middle of the Jordan and each Of you take up a stone on a shoulder According to the number of the tribes of the sons of Israel let this be a sign among you

So that when your children ask later saying what do these stones mean to you? Then you shall say to them because the waters of the

Jordan were cut off before the ark of the covenant of the Lord So they're telling a story right now This is narrative when it crossed the

Jordan the store the waters of the Jordan were cut off So these stones shall become a memorial to the sons of Israel forever

So this is what God did, but it's also about what they did here. Here's something that they took part in they crossed the

Jordan and These stones are the memorial to pass on it's important to pass on some of these stories to Generations to come and a public reminder of those things it it gives you the opportunity to do that That's why monuments are public in public areas.

So you go and you say who's that person? What's what's that pile of rocks? What's that obelisk? What's it there for and then?

Parents and it's parents here. They get the opportunity to tell their children that marks when this happened and Their children learn this is this is really part of a culture.

This is what makes a culture So memory so remembering the works of God.

We're also remembering the works of man, and there's some negative Examples in here as well Then Joab blew the trumpet and the people returned from pursuing

Israel for Joab restrained the people they took Absalom and cast him into the deep pit in the forest and erected him over him a

Very great heap of stones and all of Israel fled each to his tent now Absalom in his lifetime had taken it and set up for himself a pillar which is in the

Kings Valley For he said I have no son to preserve my name So he named the pillar after his own name and it's called

Absalom's monument to this day 2nd Samuel 18 so this looks at Absalom not a good guy, right and so he dies and And a monument is erected of sorts a great heap of stones.

This is where Absalom was killed All right So it marks the location as a significant event and then

Absalom though had already erected his own monument called Absalom's monument And you know what? They didn't rip it down interestingly

Says it's still there to this day. So Absalom wanted to somehow honor himself.

He didn't have a son to carry on his name. So he's gonna put his name Out on the historical landscape for people to see

I was here Here's another one Samuel rose early in the morning to meet Saul and it was told

Saul saying Saul came to Carmel and behold He set up a monument for himself Then turned and proceeded on down to Gilgal for Samuel chapter 15

Saul's in disobedience in this passage and there he is setting up a monument for himself

To honor himself. So so there's something about monuments That also can designate honor.

So it's not just the marking of a historical event, but there can be honor involved in this hey, this is an event or a person that we want to remember because it shows us something good something we want to emulate something that we want to think highly of and Saul thought highly of himself and he was wrong.

I'm sure to do this And monuments can be erected for wrong motivations.

It's important I say that and we're gonna talk about this But there are wrong reasons to erect a monument And one of the first ones that comes to mind is there's a monument to Satan I think there's a few of them now that one

I'm thinking of I think is in, Oklahoma That was erected outside of the I think it's the state capitol, but but you can google that there's monuments to Satan Yeah, not not a great person to emulate there, right?

Not not not someone we want to you know, our kids walking down the street and say hey what's that monument for and you say well, that's a monument to honor

Satan and I mean, I guess you can explain to them who Satan is But if it's depicted in a way in which

Satan is being honored or Satan's looks favorably sitting on a throne or something Well that that's a horrible monument

But if it's depicted in a way of Satan's, you know, he's losing he's Or he's trying to tempt someone and beware of Satan.

Well, that might be a good motivation right to put up a monument So motivation authorial intent plays plays a lot into this

But Saul put up a monument for a bad reason Here's another one. This is from 2nd

Kings 23 Then he said what is this monument that I see and the men of the city told him it is the grave of the man

Of God who came from Judah and proclaimed these things which you have done against the altar of Bethel He said and this is

Josiah Let him alone let no one disturb his bones so they left his bones undisturbed with the bones of the prophet who came from Samaria the situation here is

Josiah is going and Destroying all the the pagan places of worship Idols the

Mystical places people thought were had mystical powers and so forth where priests were buried He's taking that all and he's destroying it, right?

So is there precedent for destroying? Monuments, I think there could be at times and we're gonna talk about that.

But but he makes an exception here He says what's this monument for and says? Oh, that's this is a grave marker this is where a prophet is buried and he says don't destroy that and And then that's another key thing about monuments they can also be markers for graves

They think you know, how often do you go to a cemetery and you see some gravestones? I mean ever gravestones a monument, but how often do you see big ones?

You know a lot of money was put into them. This is a significant person. Look at that big one over there So these mark where someone has died and it's to honor them often

So there's the works of man the works of God its memory monuments are about memory They also can denote social obligation

Here's Joshua 24 26 to 27 and Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law and he took a large stone and set it up there

Under the oak that was by the sanctuary of the Lord Joshua said all the people behold this stone shall be a witness against us for it has heard all the words of the

Lord Which he spoke to us thus it shall be a witness against you so that you do not deny your

God Do you think the stone really heard? No, it's a stone But it's symbolic.

He's saying this stone was present when we heard the words of the law and it's gonna be a witness

It's gonna say when we see that stone, we're gonna remember Oh, yeah We were there and we remember the oath and we remember the obligation we have to obey the

Lord that stones a reminder It's memory in this in this sense. It's memory to a social obligation who we are as Nationally as Israelites who we are as followers of Yahweh.

This is our obligation And so we have this today, I mean, it's unfortunate so many churches are getting away from this they they don't like steeples

They don't like crosses. They don't like anything that would remind you of death like a graveyard They don't like to look like a church.

They want a little corporate logo They want all their songs to be super new not written by old dead guys

I mean traditions just kind of thrown out the window but churches used to and there's still many they had these big steeples

It was the tallest building in the town because you know why that's a monument You look at that and you say that's the house of the

Lord that's what that represents I'm reminded that there's a creator and that there's a law and that this is who

I'm living under It was a social reminder for social obligation who we are as people who we are as individuals who's in control who should get honor and And of course because they were the tallest buildings in the town lightning often struck them as well

Monuments are also used as landmarks and we can see this today when sometimes if you're in a town where there's a monument,

I know I grew up down the street from a place where there is this World War two monument and Sometimes people would say where do you live?

And I said, well, I'm down the street from the World War two monument Oh, it's on the corner of and I tell them the streets and they'd say oh, yeah the monument

So monuments are used as markers and here's an example of that from Genesis 28 in Genesis 35 in both cases

Jacob Named a place Bethel that had previously been called Luz and it was to mark events that took place

The first one it says Jacob arose early in the morning He took the stone that he put under his head and set up a pillar and poured oil on its top

So when Jacob has this vision and then the second one is Genesis 35 The Lord talks to Jacob and he puts a pillar in the place where he had spoken with the

Lord And so this is to a holy place in a sense. There's a place that's different. This is a place where Jacob Talked to the

Lord and received some kind of revelation. So It's an important place and it's also a landmark.

So he renamed the region and We I mean this every you'd pull out a map every town that you see is a monument to something or someone

I mean how many I grew up in the Northeast how many places in the Northeast? Are also the names of places in England?

or or old, you know Native American names, so It represents something or someone it's a landmark often

Now here I want to give you a little bit of my thinking on monuments in general This is kind of there's the grid that I use and I start with this

GK Chesterton quote Don't ever take a fence down until you truly know the reason why it was put up This is

Chesterton's fence conservatives love using this and they say look this is how tradition works

I mean if you want to if you want to change something if you want to take something down, that's fine But you better know why it was there in the first place

Maybe there was a good reason for it and you just haven't thought of it And so maybe you should get back to authorial intent

So GK Chesterton pushes of us back to authorial intent and applying this to the monuments debate

What what's the reason that monuments were erected in the first place would be the question? Why are there monuments?

What did the originators of these monuments want to communicate to those who would admire them or not admire them?

Well, you have to go back to what the erectors what those who are dedicating them what what they thought of what did they say about specifically

The monument itself not what did they say in other places not what rabbit trails that they go down in a speech about the monument

No, no. No, what did they say about the monument? What did it represent to them? So that's very important tradition so Tradition is another thing

I look at if it's been there for a long time and this is something that not a lot of I don't know if a lot of people think about it this way, but If a monument to a historical event has been there for a certain length of time, let's say a hundred years

It's no longer just a monument to that historical event. It's a historical artifact itself.

I do believe that so when you're taking down Monuments to Christopher Columbus or a

Robert E Lee or to Thomas Jefferson and these monuments. Let's say they're newer quote -unquote Oh, they're only a hundred years old

Well a hundred years is you know that that's a long time for that to be standing there a lot of generations have come and Gone, the

United States has gone through several wars We've I mean a lot of events have taken place while that monument was standing there

So it's actually part of the historical landscape. It's it's part of the memory of people who have grown up in that area

That's why it's so hard for some people who have grown up. Let's say in like Richmond I've talked to some who they can't believe all these monuments they grew up with are coming down It's like it's like it's not even the city that they grew up in because they were so used to these things

It's part of the historical landscape Depiction that's another I think area to look at so depiction

What is the monument depicting and I just use the example of Satan like if it's

Satan and Satan's in a subservient position Is being conquered by God or if Satan's trying to tempt someone it's a warning about temptation.

Well, that's one thing But if Satan's sitting on a throne, well that says something about Satan. That's not true It's a lie.

The monument itself is a lie. It's telling people that Satan is the one in control. He's the ruler and And and I guess you know,

I think the one I'm thinking of has I didn't put a picture of it. It's offensive I don't even want to put a picture of it up But I think he's got a boy and a girl with him and saying that state.

Yes. Satan's not a threat Satan's powerful and he'll help boys and girls. That's wrong That's a bad message and it's because of the way

Satan's depicted and so a depiction is very important How are these people depicted if it's let's let's talk about racism for a minute.

Let's say it's someone who's a racist, right? Are they depicted as a racist? Are they doing something racist?

I mean if it's someone who's let's say they're beating up some minority Well, yeah, that would be a racist monument, wouldn't it? but if it's someone who is known for exploration like Christopher Columbus and they're just it's just those they're standing there and they're they're dressed like an explorer and It's probably

Talking about or referencing the fact that this person may have had an accomplishment. They explored they discovered the new world it's not a

Dedication to the racism or the misogyny or anything else of Christopher Columbus that he might have had

It's it's specifically about his contribution in this one area Okay, people can't seem to make these separations today, but that's another another barometer.

I use when I look at a monument and Then human scale human scale is another thing I look at now human scale this would be like Like Soviet monuments think of the

Communist monuments big in human scale. I mean it's showing

Stalin as a god essentially in our country the closest I can think of would be like Maybe the

Abraham Lincoln or Mount Rushmore might qualify. Although Matt Mount Rushmore. They're just busts

But at the same time that is a big human scale, but Abraham Lincoln is more that mean it's a big it's a big monument

And you feel small next to it, right? It's supposed to evoke some kind of awe that wow

Wow, look at this. This person was larger than life now. I I'm not saying that's right or wrong.

What I'm saying is I think that is a barometer to look at So how what is it?

What kind of feelings does it evoke? Does it make you think this person is is a god? I think a lot of the communist statues were meant to make you think that because they were atheistic and they that their their culture

They're their government. I should say they got rid of God. And so in God's place were these monuments to the revolution monuments to figures of the

Soviet state and they were God essentially So the human scale tells you that and also the posture that they held a lot of the monuments to Soldiers and so forth that are up on pedestals.

They're saying yeah, this is someone to emulate But if you usually look at them, the human scale is not it's not incredibly huge Usually they're a little bit bigger than than normal human size or the size of a normal human

But usually a little bit bigger to tell you this is an important person, but they're not showing They're not trying to communicate that this is

God. Okay This sounds a little subjective, but the intention of those who erect monuments

I think comes out in the size the scale the scope the depiction and all of these things

And so these are some of the things I look at when I'm trying to judge in a monument now I want to talk about what's going on now because the people that are taking down these monuments today are not looking at these barometers

To determine whether the monument is good or not. They're looking at other things and I'm gonna read for you some things here I want to first read for you a quote from George Orwell's 1984.

This was written in 1949 George Orwell said every record has been destroyed or falsified

Every book has been rewritten every picture has been repainted every statue and street building has been renamed Every date has been altered and the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute history has stopped

George Orwell in 1984 recognized something About totalitarian regimes and what they could or would do he just lived through World War two

He had seen and he was watching the rise of communism in Eastern Europe and in Asia and this is what he's seeing and he's writing this and He is he is noticing the how these totalitarian regimes

Erase everything all the memory from the past and they start at year zero I mean, that's what the French revolutionaries even did we're starting a new a completely new system

We're gonna have a 10 -day workweek because we don't want any attachment to what came before us We want to erase those things.

We want to liberate ourselves from the past from those attachments, which you can never do

It's a lie to think you can do that But that's what communist revolutionaries have always wanted to do

And so George Orwell Orwell is watching this and he's saying that this is the logical outcome. This was what would happen

Kind of prophetic. We're watching it happen in our own country right now. Here's Richard Weaver in visions of order 1964 he said amnesia as a goal is a social emergent of unique significance

I do not find any other period in which men have felt to an equal degree that the past either is

Uninteresting or is a reproach to them when we realize the extent to which one's memory is oneself

We are made to wonder whether there is not some element of suicidal impulse in this mood or at least an impulse of self

Hatred is a fascinating quote to me. It's fascinating because what he's saying is that He recognized

Humans have an attachment to the past no matter what you you always do there there is you come in a sequence of events that came before you and there will be a sequence of events that come after you and Part of who you are whether you like it or not that language you speak the clothes you wear

The kinds of things you're interested in the food you like everything Even I mean and I'm seeking cultural here

I'm not talking about someone who loves the Lord truly because the Lord has has done a work on on their heart

I think the Lord can do that no matter where you are. He can use means to do that He can send missionaries even if you're in a place that's unreached

But so someone who's a cultural member of a religion cultural Christianity cultural

Buddhism cultural Islam That's determined by where you're born really more than anything else those who came before you

What were they were like the culture you're growing up in so Richard Weaver saying you're a product in some ways

You want to liberate yourself from all that and say you're your own person. You're not you there's influences and To get rid of all influences and all everything that happened in the past to try to either forget it

So amnesia to remove it from your sight is an exercise He says in self -hatred because that's part of what made you who you are

That is so prophetic that is exactly what is happening in the United States right now These things made us who we are these things that were ripping down there.

It's part of our story There's a hatred. I guarantee you when you talk to these protesters.

There's a hatred for the United States as it is today It's not just a hatred for what it was.

It's a hatred for what it is. I Guarantee you that's what's motivating this so Richard Weaver very interesting quote and then here's from Russia beyond February 12th 2012 when the

Bolsheviks came to power in 1917 The first thing they did was to start destroying monuments to the

Czars and replace them many times over with the monuments to communist Revolutionary heroes.

This is what communists do Here's from China's Cultural Revolution. Here's what Mao did

Mao felt the same way we got to get rid of especially Buddhist Buddhist statues and not for the reasons a

Christian might want to do that He felt like the past China's past was keeping it back from entering the new the brave new world.

And so they destroyed tons of stuff burned up statues Destroyed artifacts of all different kinds and you can look up that more if you are interested in learning more about it

So here's some assumptions and I and I before I get into this actually I want to sort of set this up Here's what's happening in the

United States right now. I'm gonna get deeper into it, but I want to give you kind of a basic understanding There are two competing understandings actually there's three there's three competing understandings of what the

United States is and what its history has been and and what its history is so number one would be this is probably more the camp that I would be in but the

United States history includes good things and bad things and It is the story of people who have come together who

God has him blessed immensely and He's blessed the United States immensely not because the

United States is so good But because the United States in general there's exceptions, but in general they follow biblical principles

It's ingrained in many of the laws Taking into account things like man is evil.

So separation of powers local state federal authority The the idea that a free market is good self government is good

Nine of the thirteen states at the founding of the country had their own state religions essentially So there and there's always been an acknowledgement even on the federal level of God And so that there it's been

Predominantly a Christian nation in the sense that Chris there was a Christian influence not that everyone was a

Christian but Christian ideas influenced the formation of this country and this country is really an extension of originally of Great Britain and European Ideas, so it was a federation.

It came together and God has has blessed this country in many ways There's been hard times. There's been good times and we look back and I think we can see

Things to be proud of we can see things to be ashamed of but overall the big picture is Wow Look at how much freedom we've enjoyed in this country

Look and what's the reason for that? It's because most of the people in this country had certain understandings of God who he was the

Ten Commandments being good moral principles to exercise They you didn't have to pay for a lot of protection and police and things

I mean, I remember when I was a kid even which wasn't that long ago in the 90s I mean I could or in early 2000s

I guess yeah, I would go to in the neighborhood and mow people's lawns and talk to people. I didn't have a cell phone

My mom just knew I was out in the neighborhood I mean that those days are gone in most places, but there used to be an understanding that Most people are gonna treat you the way they'd want to be treated and you know

This was this was just part of the culture Christianity really flavored everything and and so there's there's a lot of things to be proud of there's an emotional attachment

That I have to this country that all of us who are Americans probably have in some way shape or form

And so we can see the way this country was formed the reasons it was formed people escaping from Great Britain or other places to flee religious persecution people wanting just opportunity and finding it in the

United States and we're proud of what this country has become and And and and so that's that's the

America that I would say that the American history that I know about that I am used to right Well, there's another competing narrative that says this country stinks from the beginning this is like 1619 project from the beginning

It was just oppression against Against black people against American Indians against women against just the list goes on children who had to work in factories it's just a story of horrible oppression and that's what the country is that by definition and so the country has

Gone through a series of Changes that have been positive, but we have so much farther to go

We just we're not there yet. And so we need a real revolution to stop the Hegemony to stop the allocation of resources and privilege to those who are white straight males, etc

Because they were the ones who designed this place to benefit themselves That's the other story of history.

And so we're constantly in a state of revolution Constantly putting everything under the microscope to get rid of any semblance of what was there at the beginning constantly trying to Emancipate ourselves from the past All right.

That's the left's version of history today. It's a communist version of history, right? Then you have

I'm gonna call it the neoconservative version of history if you want to call it that and the neoconservative version of history

Pretends to be just like the first one I'd say the traditional American understanding of what

America was is has been but it's not it's actually closer to the revolutionary history

Because what the neoconservative version of history says is that the yeah the founders, you know

They were good guys But it reads the founding through the Emancipation Proclamation and through the formation mostly of the

Republican Party And so they were dedicated to abstract principles like equality so this wasn't just families moving over from Europe taking the traditions from Europe and Planting them here in the

United States and forming this great country No, the United States was was starting at square one that in their minds

It was the it was a you'll often hear them say the American experiment. It was an experiment

Because they're starting something brand new that's never been tried before. That's not really exactly true I mean, there's every some things unique about every country, but but these were traditions taken over from other places

It wasn't the 13 colonies weren't all unique in every single way In the sense that they were starting a new political experiments.

No, they were they had ideas already from Europe, but this neoconservative version says no

Everything started at square one and we were dedicated as the Declaration says

To the principle that all men are created equal and that's what the United States about it's about a quality which of course

Jefferson wasn't trying to say that it wasn't a scientific statement wasn't an abstract statement it was more of an artistic flourish and And of course, he is a man who owned slaves.

He wasn't talking about flatlined equality in any sense of the word But but this is the understanding that the neoconservatives have of the founding and then what they'll say is the

Republican Party Was the party that started to oppose slavery and the Democrats from that point forward are just the bad guys they were the party of slavery of Jim Crow of KKK of Against civil rights and they that's who the

Democrats are and they're still that way. They're socialist. They're evil They're awful and the Republicans are the good guys and they're the knight in shining armor through the whole story

Now the problem with that story is it doesn't actually it's not true. The historical record doesn't bear it out

The Republican Party was mostly formed one of the reasons was for free white labor in the

West They didn't want black people in the Western Territories They wanted it for white people and of course they wanted it was an extension of the

Whig Party in some ways But they wanted Henry Clay's American system infrastructure projects the railroad they wanted government intervening

This is where you get more state capitalism. They like the idea of a national bank I mean, this is the Republican Party.

They did not start off in the in a conservative way in every sense of the word and of course, this is the same party that It was under Republicans that the

Native Americans were wiped out by federal troops in the West and put on reservations So they don't don't think the

Republican Party is this pure as the driven snow party when it comes to the issue of Race and ethnicity the

Republican Party has some of the same issues the Democrat Party has in fact in the progressive era

They were they were racist just like Democrats were racist I mean progressives were were mostly championing racism during that time both parties

And so, you know, if you look at a Democrat Party, you're actually going back to the Jeff Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson stands in that line.

All right, so it's not it's not a black and white thing But in this version of the neoconservative history what it allows them to do is to vilify

Those on the left. So so they're playing identity politics. The left is playing identity politics

The left is saying we need to emancipate ourselves from all the history. We need to just start Square one and there's there's a few people who got it, right like Martin Luther King jr

But overall, you know, most people were wrong And so we're gonna honor those few people who got it right at different points in history

But we're gonna most of it just needs to be destroyed and the Republican Party comes along says no We're gonna save it by blaming you guys for all the problems

We're gonna blame the Democrats for all the problems and and we don't we shouldn't honor Democrats now this has been the logic used to for for both sides for neoconservatives and for for for Democrats for liberals to destroy

Confederate monuments and anything that would Would be you know honoring the

Confederacy or honoring an event related to the Confederacy Both of these guys got together basically and said yeah, you know

We can agree on this and there are four different reasons the neoconservatives Republican Party yeah, because they're

Democrats slave -owning Democrats and the other side the The liberals the communists the

Marxists they want to wipe that out anyway, but they don't want to stop there They want to wipe out everything. And so I think this is

I'm gonna talk about why I think this happened But but the effect of this has been the

Republicans have adopted this Neoconservative version of history and they can't defend now

They don't have any logical reason to defend American history as a whole because they gave up the battle and I really think that this the

Failing to defend the Confederate monuments when they started becoming under attack I think is a failure just like when conservatives gave up the gay marriage debate.

They gave it up they said okay, you can have that and The the lie was well, if you give us same -sex marriage if you allow that to happen, it's gonna end there

We're not gonna take anyone to jail. We're not gonna force any kind of you know, laws to Force people to hire

Homosexuals, we're not gonna come into your church or anything like that or but now what do we see?

Of course, that wasn't true. That was a lie now it's you know bake the cake or else or you know photograph the wedding or else or Recently in the

Supreme Court. You have to hire someone who's transgender And and if they become transgender after you hire them, you can't fire them even if they want to display that in I think the case that had gone through was a funeral home and This is the most sensitive time of some people's lives and an employee wanted to do cross -dressing

I said this just isn't helpful for the people that come in to mourn and Supreme Court says it's too bad Discrimination.

Well if we could have gone back to 2015 what how many conservatives would say? Yeah, you know what?

Maybe that wasn't a good idea. Maybe we shouldn't have exited this battle But they did exit this battle and I think it's similar in when it comes to the monument debate 2015 when these monuments started really

Started to be under attack confederate southern monuments, etc Can neo -conservatives

Republican Party wanted to say? All right, you know what? We'll give you that. Well, you can take those down.

That's fine We're not gonna say much about it but they didn't realize when they gave them when they when they allowed them to have that logic they also gave up the founding fathers and anyone associated with Colonialism and anyone who was a bigoted, you know misogynist, etc

They gave up most of American history when they allowed them to use that logic because that logic was gonna be used over and over And over again, and that's exactly what we see now

That's why I don't have a lot of sympathy for Republicans who now want to all of a sudden draw a line and say hey

Not Thomas Jefferson. Don't don't take him down. Hey Christopher Columbus. Don't you can't do that Frederick Douglas You keep don't take him down I don't have a lot of sympathy because these are the same guys who a few years ago were like Yeah, whatever take down those

Confederate monuments. They gave up the battle then and so I'm gonna explain this we're gonna go through this

Here here's some of the logic that was used to take down the Confederate statues The country was split between two parties of Americans during the

Civil War, right? But the accusation is that the Confederate leaders, they're not Americans So as long as we can take down statues of people who aren't

Americans, then yeah The Confederate ones can go but in some ways this would actually any figure who predated

The Constitution were they an American? I mean, how do you constantly what's an American then? Do is there if they're

Native American monument anywhere? I mean, they weren't part of the United States of America Do they need to be taken down or our local regional history is also part of the

American story remember the traditional American historiography the way of looking at history is that these the

Accumulation of human experiences including regional histories is part of the American story That's what I subscribe to the neoconservatives

Don't they subscribe to this abstract understanding of those who forwarded equality are worthy of honor and part of the

American story And that's the Republican Party. So they gave it up right then But but I contend no wait, hold on I think

Native Americans should be you can have a statue to a Native American I think that's fine I think people who are explorers who are here before the

Constitution before even the Declaration of Independence Yeah, they're they're Americans in a certain sense. They're part of the regional history

And and the same would include the those who were Confederate leaders before the war most

Confederate leaders had a conflict were Leaders in the United States think of Robert E. Lee Robert E.

Lee was responsible in large part for winning the Mexican -American War That's Robert E.

Lee, he would be a hero whether he fought for the Confederacy or not He would he could have a statue to himself that he's that's an

American hero Whether or not he had any attachment to the four years of Civil War but But he's not acceptable now because he has that attachment so the other thing is that the country

North and South Included CSA leaders including CSA leaders were reunited so in other words

Abraham Lincoln was operating under the assumption that these these states could not legally leave and so they were always part of the

United States and when the country was reunited You'd have dedications to these monuments where Union ex -Union soldiers would be there and ex -Confederates would be at Union dedications and this was part of the healing and Reuniting and saying you know what?

We're Americans now. We're gonna honor Abraham Lincoln. We're also gonna honor Robert E Lee they're both heroes and we're coming together.

And so that that's the the America that's the that that's the logic that's been employed now for the last, you know since the war ended really to Defend and to justify

Confederate memorials as well as Union memorials. We would come together as a people Any monument or symbol honoring native tribes?

Like I said or pre United States era figures or cultures should be also destroyed under this logic that all we just honor

You know true Americans The other accusation is these are monuments to racism and here's the issue with that the interpretive plaques that express express intention to honor

Leaders and soldiers so not government policy So if you go to these monuments a lot of times I'll have plaques

I'm going to show you some of those but they say to home to hearth and home to those who didn't come back

Those who made the ultimate sacrifice it's to intangible things like honor that these monuments are set up and so So the interpretive plaques if thoreal intent tells you what these things actually mean, what are the authors mean?

What are those who created them mean? What were they just setting these things up for racism? No That's not what they said

So why should we put words in their mouth? United States policy have the same problems by the way

So by this logic early you United States heroes should also be canceled because and this is the logic being used now

Anyone who had a racially insensitive understanding or now it's gonna it's gonna eventually go into They had an understanding that was misogynistic and in the minds of the social justice crowd or Anti -homosexual etc.

You know these guys that their monuments aren't to the accomplishments that the monuments are honoring. It's to Their personal views on these specific issues and this is the logic that's being used to take down Christopher Columbus And all the

Founding Fathers, etc Etc that you know They had had other views that we wouldn't have agreed with today and that's not what the why the monuments are there

We're not honoring Thomas Jefferson because he was a slave owner But that's the logic used by the other side to rip them down These are must be monuments to slavery because Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner

It's kind of absurd that that's like saying, you know, even if we made it a monument to MLK, you know Is every street named after MLK?

Honoring adultery No We say no, we're honoring him because of what he did in the

Civil Rights Movement We're not honoring him because he ran around on his wife, but by the logic of these guys you can say that why not?

Why not take it down? so I want to take you through some of this because I think we need to draw a line and I draw my line at the

Confederate monuments, I think when this whole business started I I was right there in front saying no

This isn't right if we do this and I warned years ago, I warned about this

You can even probably find it on this channel. I said if we do this, we've lost it all If you start here this acid eats everything

So I'm gonna give you some things to think about Southern Poverty Law Center wants to say that look it was during the turn of the century a little after that and then during the

Civil Rights when these Confederate monuments went up therefore They're there to racism. So that's their logic.

They can't find monument plaques Or dedications that say that it's to racism

So we're just gonna say because it was in these eras when there was a lot of racism There's a lot of you know, there's lynching during the first part of the 19th 1900s or rather 20th century and You know, they're there during the

Civil Rights Movement more of them went up. Well, here's a comparison Here is when northern monuments when

I'm not even remember northerners had a lot more money. They could build these things quicker Sooner after the war

But this is a survey of Union monuments in a survey of Confederate monuments and you look they it also spikes

There's also more Union monuments being built at the same time where those Union monuments to racism will know

No, and that's not what their monument plague They say the same things to preserving the Union and there's you know for their cause or they would say, you know

Those who didn't come back home sacrifice honor those kinds of things So Confederate monuments went up after the war when people could finally when the

South was finally in a state where they could actually purchase these things and when the memory of these guys is being erased because they're dying

Confederate soldiers are starting to die now and So their children their grandchildren want to honor them and so that's why they went up and then you have in the 60s a little little bitty spike and that's because it was a

Hundred years after the Civil War. So we're remembering that event and putting up monuments to dedicate

It's not because of civil rights. There's no reason to think that so this is a complete isogetical interpretation of history

Why were Civil War monuments erected? I want to read you this. This is in 1890 This is from an article that is linked in the info section by Philip Lee in 1890

The Mississippi legislature voted on a bill to appropriate $10 ,000 for a Confederate monument the vote in a lower chamber was 57 to 41 in favor all six black

Representatives voted yay all six of them. Okay. Why are these black people voting for a

Confederate monument? Well, here's the explanation one John F. Harris since John's name is John Harris made a supporting speech prior to the vote

And this is what he said Mr. Speaker, I have risen here in my place to offer a few words on the bill

I was sorry to hear the speech of the young gentleman from Marshall County I am sorry that any son of a soldier should go on record as opposed to the erection of a monument in honor of the brave dead and Sir, I am convinced that had he seen what

I saw at Seven Pines and in the seven days fighting around Richmond the battlefield covered With the mangled forms of those who fought for their country's honor

He would not have made that speech When the news came that the South had been invaded that those men went forth to fight for what they believed and they made no

Requests for monuments, but they died and their virtues should be remembered

Sir I went with them. I too wore the gray the same color my master wore

We stayed four long years and if that war had gone on till now I would have been there yet I want to honor those brave men who died for their convictions when my mother died

I was a boy who sir then acted the part of a mother to me an orphaned slave boy, but my old missus

Were she living now or it could speak to me from those high realms where are gathered the sainted dead

She would tell me to vote for this bill and sir. I shall vote for it

I want it known to all the world that my voice is given in the favor of the bill to erect a monument in honor of the

Confederate dead It's coming from a black man a black veteran a soldier who fought for the

Confederacy in Mississippi all six of the black representatives in the legislature voted for the erection of this monument

Phillip Lee says Harris was about 30 years old when he went off with his master to fight on the side of the Confederacy after The war he studied law at the offices of Percy and Yerger in Greenville, Mississippi The firm's co -founder was

William Alexander Percy a former Confederate colonel in 1867 Percy successfully defended ex -slave

Holt Collier who had been accused of murdering a federal officer strange turn of events this is

For our modern minds to conceive of Holt Collier was the man who helped Theodore Roosevelt Go on a bear hunt and that's from we get the legend the teddy bear from that bear hunt if your child has a teddy bear, it's because of Holt Collier and the

Hunt that he took Theodore Roosevelt on Holt Collier was a black Confederate soldier had been and he was accused of murdering someone who was federal a

Union well after the war, but You know federal federal soldier and a

Confederate is the one defending him an ex -confederate colonel is the one defending him And of course this this legislature

John Harris ends up working for that Confederate man And he was an ex -confederate a black Confederate as well

And he voted and his speech tells you why he supported the erection of this particular monument It's because of virtue.

It's because of the sacrifice they made It wasn't because of racism and obviously coming from him he wouldn't have voted for it if he thought that he had a choice

Why were they erected? What was the authorial intent of the blue and the gray? It was to honor those who sacrificed and it's not really more complicated than that Here's a statue.

This was one that was ripped down in North Carolina. You can actually go to my website I wrote a whole thing about this because I had gone to the protesters and talked with them for three hours before this was ripped down and And reasoned with them and I tell that story, but here's the dedication plaque.

This is the silent Sam Memorial in North Carolina Was there? in at Chapel Hill and it says to the sons of the university who entered the war of 1861 to 65 in answer to the call of their country and Whose lives taught the lesson of their great commander who is

Robert E Lee that duty is the sublimest word in the English language and of course you have a simple soldier holding a musket and he's there's a little sort of depiction underneath and the depiction is basically it's

Virginia or a North Carolina saying drop your books drop your studies and go defend me and and the soldier did and and so You know, this is to the common man.

This is to the soldier and it was to duty That was the reason say to slavery doesn't say to racism.

It says to duty That's the reason a lot of people died here's the Robert E. Lee monument in Richmond, Virginia And I'm saying this telling you this on the day that Whose last was last week that I think they got rid of the

Stonewall Jackson monument They now have gotten rid of the Jeb Stuart monument. It's all coming down. But here's what the

Lee Monument why it was erected in the first place This is from a book put out by the

US Department of the Interior National Park Service 1992 on the history and architecture of Monument Avenue in Richmond Here's what it says.

Colonel Archer Anderson gave a much -admired dedicatory address to the unveiling that Diplomatically skirted the moral and political import of a monument to the leader of a failed rebellion and defense of slavery

Okay, so you see the PC stuff coming in here, but but listen Anderson eulogized instead

Lee's character and virtues his skill as a military strategist his steadfastness and compassion in the face of impossible odds

He ended his speech with an exhortion Drawn from deep within the neutral territory of the

Lee cult of personality He said let this monument then teach to generations yet unborn these lessons of his life

Let it stand not a record of civil strife But as a perpetual protest against whatever is low and sordid in our public and private objects.

What's he saying? I'll tell you what the National Park was saying now. So Park was saying they're saying yeah

You know, this was a war to slavery that that's the reason this was fought So so but but he just decided not to talk about that Well, I'm sure in his mind

He was he was there to talk about Robert E Lee and who Robert E Lee was and he did he talked about this man's

Character, he didn't talk about slavery. He didn't talk about Racism he talked about who

Robert E Lee was and because People don't understand who he is anymore They don't study him

The good points of his character, of course his statues coming down and of course Washington's will follow

Because George Washington isn't being studied anymore either George Washington had slaves as well George Washington was upset when the

British pulled out of New York and took slaves with them He said that's the property of us. That's that's United States property.

Those are belong to New Yorkers How long is George Washington gonna stand let me ask you

That's why the Lee monument was erected in the first place you can see a little postcard from Richmond, Virginia And that's what it looks like Well, here's what it looks like today

This is on July 1st. A friend of mine was in Richmond. He took some pictures for me I don't think I can bear to go myself

It has profanity all over it. It is completely Just completely

Covered in all kinds of Graffiti, etc.

And right by the statue and this is interesting. You probably didn't see this report. It is a radical library Take a book book leave a book

So this is a radical library and it's supposed to be hey, here are the reasons that we're doing what we're doing

This is why we're trying to take down these statues is why we're vandalizing while we're breaking the law read these books

You know, what was in those books? What was in these and I don't know what all the books were but one of them

The new Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander was in this my friend told me and It's interesting the last week.

I'm critiquing Phil Vischer who you know created VeggieTales and most of his research

Supposedly was based on the new Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander the same book that's being used here

That's being that's in this free library to explain to people why they're desecrating the Lee monument

You think Christians are partnering with people who are breaking the law and doing bad things? Yeah. Yeah, they're part of the revolution

Here's a monument that came down in North Carolina recently This is the North Carolina woman of the Confederacy monument and you can see

Just says to the North Carolina women of the Confederacy you have on the side There is a mother sending her sons off to war on the other side are her sons coming back and one of them is being

Carried because he's dead and the mother is taking this dead son into her arms And it's recognizing the sacrifice that mothers made in sending their soldiers away

It was taken down because it's supposedly racist nothing about racism nothing about slavery

But it was taken down. I mean do you get the point? I hope you do

I've seen hundreds of these things and they all pretty much say very similar things to honor to bravery

To these intangible principles these virtues that we could use a lot more of today They weren't to bigotry

They represent bigotry to a modern audience who has been conditioned to think that they're big they represent bigotry

But at the time even people who were might have been bigoted who put them up. That's not what it meant to them

It meant It represented eternal values or it was to men who?

Exemplified eternal values which were to be emulated That's why they were put up.

That's what they are about and if you destroy authorial intent like most like many

Christians have done Like many Christians are doing I even wrote

I wrote two articles I'm gonna link those in the info section. You can go read them I wrote one about Lottie moon, and I wrote one about the situation in Mississippi I'll actually pull this up while I'm talking and They were both

Meant to kind of awaken people to understand what the deeper issues of this battle really are

And the reason for that is because The if we as Christians start going down this route, we're gonna be in trouble

I mean Martin Luther did not want stained -glass windows broken during the

Reformation. He said that's the poor people's Bible They need that don't just break those things.

Yeah, I was set up by Roman Catholics. Don't break them He wasn't he wasn't a revolutionary in that sense

Let me talk to you about the Mississippi flag real quick This came down recently and a lot of my family's from Mississippi So I've always been used to going down to family reunions, and this is the flag that I see well not anymore

Lincoln Duncan made a speech about it, and I'm not gonna go through his whole speech. I wrote about it You can go check that out

But ultimately what he does is he ignores the very reason the flag was put there in the first place and I said look if You want to take it down take it down at a different time

For a better reason than this there might be reasons to take it down So you got a better idea of what represents

Mississippi? That's fine, but don't do it in the pressure cooker of social justice warriors want us to take it down And be bullied into it, which is what

Lincoln Duncan's encouraging But he ignored the very reason the flag was there in the first place

And what was that? Well, we find it in Governor Stone's daughter she and this governor stone is the one who dedicated this flag.

She said The motivation in incorporating in 1894 this design

Was to the memory of valor and courage of those brave men who wore the gray.

That's it the valor and courage wasn't to slavery wasn't to Jim Crow or anything else it was to the valor and courage of men and If we let this acid keep eating we're gonna get rid of everything

John Calvin you want to talk about him? You want to talk about what he thought of civil penalties for those who might have even slightly disagreed on theology

I'm gonna talk about John Knox and misogyny. You want to talk about Martin Luther and anti -semitism?

I Guess be prepared to just get rid of all the Reformers because because they won't meet the standard You know, you're honoring them just because you hate you hate

Jewish people and you hate women I guess right Reform people. I mean, come on if you go with this logic here

What's to what's gonna help you escape that logic being applied to your own heroes? We already see it being applied to Jonathan Edwards and George Whitfield How about Lottie Moon Lottie Moon is a patron saint of the

Southern Baptist Convention, but you want to know a few things about Lottie Moon Lottie Moon was born on a 1 ,500 acre tobacco plantation.

Her father was the largest slaveholder 52 slaves in The county where she was born which is near Charlottesville She never apologized for her privilege in 1875

She said that where the Caucasian goes he carries energy and an inferior race is aroused by the contact in 1876

Moon claimed that self -respect compelled her to reject any potential decision of any Chinaman or body of Chinaman to determine the place of her ministry and she likened such an affront to an

African church in Richmond Telling dr. Warren who I think is probably dr Edward Warren who had been a medical inspector for the

Army of Northern Virginia Robert E Lee's army and she says it would be like them telling dr. Warren where he could live

Lottie Moon's sister was Served as a Confederate Army nurse during the war in 1876

Moon talked about another missionary Mrs. Holmes who didn't want to move and abandoned her duty to these poor heathen

But knew her son Landrum needed to go to the United States The boy would likely live in it with Methodist relatives who had northern political sentiments northern

So she tried to create an arrangement Because Holmes was not willing to subject her boy to that and Lottie Moon understood that Lottie Moon wanted to help her avoid northerners

In addition Moon said Chinese funeral processions contained barbaric pomp and show in 1884 two years later.

She proclaimed concerning China the life here as We Western people consider it is exceedingly narrow and contracted

Constant contact with people of a low civilization and many disgusting habits is a trial to one of refined feelings and tastes in 1907 moon opined that a large reunion of Confederate veterans must have been pleasant

And I'm sure there's more that's just my little bit of research primary source research on Lottie Moon and Some of the things she said

Do we cancel the Lottie Moon offering? I mean the Southern Baptists have collected 1 .5 billion dollars through the

Lottie Moon offering Maybe they should return all of it. Maybe that's racist money Under the current logic.

Why not? Why not cancel Lottie Moon? why not tear down the idol and And things are coming down everywhere, but we've given them the logic to do it because we've gotten away from authorial intent

We've gotten away from how to understand history in context as Human stories as complex human stories honoring the things that are worth honoring and now we've gotten

We put everything under the microscope and if we find one little flaw that doesn't comport to today's values you got tell you get

Tell her let me say the word Egalitarian values. There we go. We we get rid of it. We dismiss it.

It's not worth it. So that's where we are today

Canceling a monument to mothers and maternal love This goes beyond monuments.

Here's a museum that was destroyed or vandalized the Daughters of the

Confederacy Museum in Richmond and Unfortunately, I have knowledge that several historical artifacts letters from Stonewall Jackson flags that were actual

Civil War flags destroyed completely destroyed Here's a cemetery a an actual cemetery that was vandalized

It's not just going after monuments. It's going after Anything that represents this era of history

Here's a picture of people trying to take down the Andrew Jackson monument in near the White House What are the motives?

What are the motives of these revolutionaries? Here's what I think. Here's what they lack Here's what they don't have. They don't have respect for the dead

They don't have the ability to make moral separations to realize that Some men have flaws in some areas and we can put up monuments to them without Saying, you know acknowledging that those flaws are good somehow or Presenting them in a positive way.

We can acknowledge other things about them that are worth honoring they they lack the value for intrinsic virtue and And What this means is someone who is actually virtuous whose character is virtuous and the idea that we should honor that person

They don't have that conception. They don't conceive. No one's virtuous in the social justice world The the only virtue is whether you're going to go along with the revolution and give your consent to it

So posting on social media the black lives matter that there's some virtue associated with that, but that's not intrinsic virtue

That doesn't say anything about your character. It might say you just don't want to get beaten up Virtue has been eliminated

There is no like virtue in the biblical sense or even the platonic sense of there's actual

Character qualities to strive for doesn't exist not and not in this world another thing they lack

Sense of eternal judgment. They think that everything must be judged here on this earth because there is no afterlife where things will be judged

So they must take it in their hands to punish all evil because if they don't do it it won't happen And those who got away with it, well, we'll take down their monuments at least

Here's what they want. They want to separate people from their cultural identity They want to destroy reminders of social duty and intrinsic worth.

What do I mean by social duty? Monuments just just like if you have a wedding ring if you have a wedding ring, it's a reminder of a duty

It's a monument to a commitment that was made a promise Monuments also can show commitments.

They can show social duty. They can show this is who we are as a people We're supposed to be acting like that guy That's George Washington and this is what he represented and why that monument was put there.

He sacrificed a lot for this country He could have been the king and he decided not to be the king He was a humble servant servant leader and that's who we need to be as Americans And there's a social duty when you all recognize that's the character to follow

They don't believe in that they want to get rid of that idea They want to erase Christian interpretations of history and by that I mean just the idea that there's providential that there's there's a providence in history

They look at history as as I explained earlier this march towards equity of some kind That's all history is and there's a lot of bad guys and a few good guys

But more and more even the good guys aren't good anymore because they don't match the current Idea of equity equity keeps progressing in its definition so they

Providential view that says hey, you know the past the present all times God there There was something God was doing something was working something even in the 1800s.

God was still at work there were still good things happening because Men of every time period have sinned and then today aren't any better than men were a hundred years ago because we're all men

They want to destroy that idea. They want to say we're better. It's pride They want to enter an earthly totalitarian utopia based on abstract equity inclusion and diversity

That's what they're going for They want a world made in their image they don't believe in heaven and judgment coming after this life they're setting up heaven here on earth and It's equality.

That's what they think heaven is a Everyone gets to express themselves sexually the way they want without any guilt any reminder of someone who didn't believe in that will be canceled because we want to do what we want to do with our bodies and We don't want any national allegiance or social attachments that would keep us back from doing that from doing what we want to do and The world that we're creating is not based on intrinsic virtue.

It's not based on honor and sacrifice and it's based on things that are

Inclusion diversity equity these are things That are top -down Everyone just must conform to this standard

It's not something that comes from from the bottom up It's not something that comes from from down here and makes its way into families and communities and creates a culture

They and they want they want it to come from up here and the federal government's going to where or a globalist government is going to impose these things

That's the world they want and conservatives like I said have been compromising they joined in Neoconservatives I should say they joined in against Confederate monuments

Because they thought it was a compromise to save the other American monuments if we give them that they'll give us

Washington No, they won't no they won't in fact you just encourage them They compromise because it was an attempt to prove that they were virtuous and progressive

Southerners do this a lot, you know, hey look where we've we're not the Confederacy anymore. We've progressed past that We are gonna join with you.

We're gonna take this down We're gonna stand by and let it happen We're not gonna say anything because we want you to let you know, we're okay with that.

That's gonna eat away at everything Fear of being canceled or labeled a racist. It was another reason to compromise

How many of you will lose your job if you stand up for these symbols or monuments

They compromise because of because of the opportunity to promote the Republican myth and engage in identity politics

Well, look we're against these things too because they were Democrats and we're gonna bash Democrats over the head Doesn't work guys.

Can I tell you why this doesn't work? Just real briefly If you say the Democrat Party, they're the party of the

Klan You don't want to vote for the party of the Klan, right? So no, I don't want to do that so vote for Republicans all you have to do is get one

CNN journalist to go to a Klan meeting and you need that journalist all you need is that journalist to ask them who you voting for and for them to say

Trump and Then your whole arguments done. Oh, by the way, CNN journalists have done this you can look it up online

You can go to YouTube type in Klan Donald Trump and find Klansmen. You can even find people like David Duke voting for Donald Trump That argument is a terrible argument

How about you make this kind of an argument vote for the Republican Party vote for Republicans?

Because you know what they believe in the free market. They're gonna give you Opportunity to control your own life and not have your life dictated to you from someone else

They're gonna be hard on crime. They believe that we should have police because people are evil

So crime needs to be held down there against abortion, you know, who's killing more black people than anyone else

Planned Parenthood We're gonna try to stop that make that kind of an argument make the argument of what you're gonna do in the here and now

Don't go play identity politics with people's ancestors. It's stupid. It's foolish.

It won't work But I've seen Republicans now want to do it just as much as Democrats. We're both playing politics with each other's ancestors

We're both trying to say no our our parties on the right side of history our groups on the right side of history

History wasn't made it history is the past it already happened learn from it Don't use it as a battering ram in a political debate

That's where we are though. We're in an age of ideology and that's what happens in an age of ideology. I Think this is what conservatives are doing.

These are some houses near the Lee monument Three four or five say there's about seven of them here.

I think I'm not I think these are all separate houses But this was taken by a friend of mine

Who was there at Lee circle and these are the houses surrounding it and you know What most of them all say if not, all of them black lives matter

It's kind of like when the children of Egypt Israel didn't want the angel of death coming They painted the Rams blood right over the doorpost.

I mean, that's what they're doing. They're saying. Hey, look don't come damage my house I mean there's there's in one of these pictures of fences being repaired.

There was some damage to some of these old historical houses They're saying hey, we agree with you. We're with you. We stand with you.

One of them even says that we stand with you Black lives matter. That's what conservatives are trying to do today.

They're saying look don't cancel me I'm I'm just as angry about slavery and Jim Crow and racism as you are.

Don't come to my house, please a black lives matter I'm with you cowards That's what that is cowards

Who are okay with a whole generation being lied to about their history about the past about monuments, etc

They're cowards But that's who we're surrounded by You know who seems to get it more than anyone else and I almost hate to say that I did not vote for Donald Trump In 2016, but he gets this

This is from Snopes 2017 three years ago Donald Trump.

So this week, it's Robert E Lee. I noticed that Stonewall Jackson's coming down I wonder is it George Washington next week?

And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after you know? You really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop

Jefferson was a major slave owner? Are we going to take down his statue? His president

Trump August 15th 2017 Well, what did Snopes say about it say?

Well, he's engaging in what about ISM and is what they said So what about them must they all go if Robert E Lee goes not necessarily because they are all not not the same

Some figures stood for something larger Washington guided the foundation of a country that eventually preserved freedom for all

Jefferson authored a declaration of independence in which a single phrase that all men are created equal became a hammer that later smashed

That later generations would help used to help smash the chains of slavery So what see what they're trying to do?

They're drawing a line. They're saying Trump doesn't know what he's talking about This isn't back in three years ago. Now we see Trump knew exactly what he was talking about But they're saying no

Trump doesn't know what he's talking about because look Washington and Jefferson I mean these guys obviously they stood for something larger a lead just stood for for for slavery

Except he didn't he's a hero of the Mexican -american war Only guy not to get a demerit at West Point he was the president of Washington College after the war and During the war he was not for slavery.

I read you that quote in a previous episode I showed you what Lee thought about slavery. He didn't like it. He wanted it abolished progressively

He thought that was the best way to do it it was the Christian way to do it Robert E. Lee inherited slaves.

He didn't even go he didn't go purchase slaves. He inherited some and To care for them because they wouldn't have made it and I've read several

Lee biographies He was concerned They would not have made it if they were to be freed and he couldn't made it financially if they were freed anyway

He he kept them and he freed them as soon as he could He did not like slavery He wasn't fighting for slavery he was fighting you know why he was fighting what

Robert E. Lee represents Robert E. Lee was fighting because he did not want to raise his sword his saber

Against his state or his family or his people That's what Robert E. Lee stands for Loyalty to family loyalty to local community and area and will not raise his sword against them show some guts

Robert E. Lee there's some that think this I've read this he could have been president after the war

He was offered to be the the president the figurehead the the mascot essentially, but the president of banks in New York There were people interested in having him run for office

I mean he was a hero in the north and the south and he said no I'm gonna help the next generation of southern men be men in this horrible economy this horrible situation.

I need to help them That was Robert E. Lee an honorable man didn't run around on his wife an honorable man, that's what he stood for it was so much more than oh, he was just the general of the

Confederacy and the Confederacy was all about slavery. No, he was defending, Virginia Virginia didn't even secede because of slavery wasn't the primary motivation they seceded later

After other states seceded in the lower south because Lincoln was invading Have people even bothered to check the historical record to see if what they're saying is true.

No But the social justice warriors all they need is one fact that's politically incorrect and that's it that person or statue is canceled

We're not ready for it guys You know who gets it though. The only person that seems to sort of get it is

Donald Trump And I'm not saying that because I'm a big Trump fan I'm just calling it as I see it

Trump's the only one that knew this acid would eat into everything else So That's my that's my this is my episode on monuments

I know it's long and some of you like the long episodes some of you like shorter episodes So hopefully those who like the longer ones enjoyed this mega edition, but I think this is important We need to be talking about this and I know we'll be releasing some more material on this issue

But we're gonna talk about other issues as well There's a lot to talk about and I'm just grateful for all of your support and I want you to remember this

No matter even if they burn the Declaration of Independence and Washington DC was burned to the ground and the whole history of Your country was gone.

It still lives and it lives in here and in here and if you are a citizen of the

United States of America who Studies this history and loves this history and loves the north the south the east the west like I do every part of this country

Then you can still teach your kids even if there aren't monuments around They help they're teaching there are opportunities to teach but you don't need them

You as a parent can teach your kids, which is why for patrons for those who?

$5 or more a month if you go for it's one of the first links in the info section at the bottom if you want to go and Sign up and contribute to my work.

You will get a free copy if you give me your address of Understanding the war between the states authored by believe it's

I forget how many 20 southerners or so southern historians, but It's I give out different books.

I've given out trying to even think what books I've given out. There's been a bunch of them I think the last one

I gave out was on the founding fathers, but this one is on the war between the states and understanding why did why was there a civil war and I want you to read this because I think it's a good secondary source

I think and and of course, you know, it's not nothing's perfect. It's not exhaustive, but it's it's was meant to be a high school

Textbook and I'm finding out that a lot of people just don't even have a basic high school Understanding of our own history and so I want to give that to you for free

If you send me your address and if you sign up to be a patron I will give that to you for some more resources on monuments.

Check out the info section. There's a great speech By a gentleman named Aaron Wolfe. Aaron Wolfe is someone who died very recently

I met him before he died and he gave a speech. I think it was in 2018 or 17.

I think it's 2018 when he gave the speech but it is an excellent speech on this issue and it's the war on memory and And he really understands why this motivation was there.

He died on believe it was Easter of last year and What a great man

He was the I think the editor -in -chief of Chronicles magazine and you can go check that out though He speaks from the grave and you can hear what he has to say

There's some other resources there and you can read those if you're more interested if you're interested in following this further