November 22, 2005

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three Three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white.

Catholic Answers, Muslims, and the One True God

Thank you morning, welcome to the dividing line on the 22nd day of November 2005 not too much time left to go in old 2005 and Another year heading our direction. It's gonna be a busy one lots of stuff going on.

I have some clips to play and we can take your phone calls as well at eight seven seven seven five three Three three four one that happened to fire up Good old Catholic answers again over the past couple days always.

At one point it was funny I was listening well funny I was I'm sure it's really funny. But I was listening to Patrick Madrid who sounded dead tired and sick and he later emitted emitted admitted some gamma radiation.

He admitted he had just gotten back from Japan had a cold and yeah, you could just you could just tell. He was really really enjoying being on the program while Carl Keating and Jimmy Akin run a cruise.

So You can sort of sort of tell who rates and who doesn't when Tim Staples is left hosting the program and they've got a guest guest person on during the cruise. But anyway Which by the way was the identical cruise the same week same ship same itinerary that we did the year before.

So they just need to quit copying us anyway. They were talking about Something as I recall in regards to papacy, I think it had the the Petras Petra thing and You know, it's been how long how many years since like the 93 debate is 12 years.

For a long long time now we have been presenting These strong arguments against papacy and they they just they're actually talking about. Yeah, you know, it's just there's nothing new under the sun. We just keep responding the same old arguments over and over again.

The next generation's got to do the same thing. Well, how about respond to the arguments that have actually refuted you rather than the easy ones to respond to those? But that would really help it. It just amazes me that the Catholic apologetics stays right work Catholic apologetics Has always been and it and and when?

When Arguments are presented that are significantly more Complex historically based higher level. You don't you don't hear responses. You just you just hear him going back and playing the same tune over and over which would definitely get boring after all.

There's no no twist about that. It would definitely get boring to do the same thing repeatedly over and over again, so anyway, I Caught this one program and in light of the debate we did on Long Island this past May May June whenever it was Guess it was early June.

It was I don't know. I Felt for the poor fellow who was calling in because he's right. He's he's exactly right and the the response that Tim Staples offers here. Well, let's let's just listen to it and then I'm gonna comment on it dive right in.

Chuck is first from Canton, Ohio today.

Hi Chuck. All right, guys. Thanks for taking my call. He's not very What my question is. I heard a while back here that the Muslims and Muslims Worship the same God that we do and I went to Catholic school years back and all my life I understood there's one God and the Catholic Church teaches their own true God.

And I just can't can't believe when somebody tried to come along and say that the Muslims Worship the same God that we do and what do you think about that?

As soon as I heard that I just I could not help and of course our mind immediately jumps to all right where staples gonna go with this because If you've listened to the debate that we had Just a you know six months or so ago Section 841 of the Catholic Catechism the church's relationship with the Muslims the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge The Creator in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims.

These profess to hold the faith of Abraham and together With us they adore the one Merciful God mankind's judge on the last day now. I'm sorry. Language is language. You can look at the background of Lumen Gentium 16 you can look at Vatican 2 you can look at the people that were there you can look at the people that Wrote these things there really isn't any question here about what and together with us.

They adore the one merciful God. There's really no question about what that means. It's not tough. It's not really you know difficult and in fact if you if you read Nostra a tata 3 it says the church regards with esteem also the Muslims they adore The one God what does the door mean?

We had to keep asking that question. What does a door mean? It doesn't just mean acknowledge. It doesn't just mean well. They're monotheists. They adore the one God living and subsisting in himself Merciful and all-powerful a creator of heaven and earth who has spoken to men they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even his inscrutable decrees.

Just as Abraham with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself submitted to God. Just as Abraham, okay. I mean this this there's no way around this is there well. That's not easy for Catholic apologists to deal with because let's face it.

Not only is that not what the church the Roman Catholic Church is taught in the past but it just doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Liberalism really does and. So here's one of those situations where Catholic apologists are faced with some real issues some real difficulties and here an honest you know just an honest Roman Catholic guy grew up in Catholic schools and That ain't what they taught back when he went in school I can guarantee you judging by his voice when did he go to school somewhere between the 40s and 50s somewhere around there?

Maybe and that that wasn't what they were teaching back then and he knows that and he's well aware of that and I think Tim Staples is well aware of that too, but hey, you know he's bought into the into the system you got to defend it so here's Prepare for spin right.

Well.

It's a great question Chuck. And as the catechism the Catholic Church says in paragraph 841 when it says the plan of salvation also includes Those who acknowledge the Creator in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims these profess to hold the faith of Abraham and together With us they adore the one merciful God mankind's judge on the last day now very important that that we Make clear here that yes Muslims worship the same God we do in as much as they worship the one true God and remember God is Absolutely one he is more one than Jerry is or that I am.

He is one and the Jews now and I and I know what's what's coming next of course. They do not believe in God as he has revealed himself to us Father son and Holy Spirit he has revealed in the New Testament in the New Covenant His inner life that we as Christians have the blessing to have received that that gift of faith.

So that we know him in his inner life, but that's that does not mean for example that the Jews Let's say Abraham himself or Moses. They did not know God as father son and Holy Spirit. But they knew God because they worshiped him as the one true God so in as much as the Muslims say and Rightly, so that God is one that is the true God, but that doesn't mean we don't need to get the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to them and the Revelation of God as he is in his inner life, and that's what we're called to do as Christians.

That doesn't mean as many will say oh that that means as paragraph 841 Says there that all Muslims are going to heaven no, that's not what the catechism says and that's not what the Catholic Church teaches.

We believe that if anyone is ignorant through no fault of their own of the truth. That is they've never rejected the truth of the Catholic faith. It is possible for them to be saved through through the graces that they they have in Ways known to God alone be it through the legitimate sacraments.

They would have if they're Orthodox or or if they're Protestant with valid baptism, or you know. Let's take the Muslim in as much as they they believe in one God. We believe that there is grace. They're available to them if they will honestly seek God given the truth that they have.

I hope that's helpful. Chuck.

Well, my guess the point I'm making is we was taught that there is one God God the Father God the Son Holy Spirit, and if you leave Jesus Christ out of it, I can't see how they're. They're saying they're worshiping the same God.

That's Catholics and Christians worship. I mean, that's a since the New Testament. You know since Kaiser were the Muslims around here before the New Testament before Christ came.

I just love with folks like that who obviously have no Theological background whatsoever, but this is just too simple. I'm sorry. That's not the same God. Hello. We just did you try to follow? What was just said?

I mean, I feel really really sorry for somebody who has to Spin the way that Tim Staples just spun that one. The the Trinity is now the internal life of God and and all we're doing when we evangelize Muslims is Introducing them to the internal life of the God.

They already worship. That's that's that's really what's going on here. Wow. I guess we shouldn't expect a whole lot of help from the Catholic apologists in defending against Islam anytime soon. Any two ways about that.

Wow, and and here this guy is just going but if they don't have Jesus. Same God and of course, he's right.

No, no, they weren't. But just just try to keep in mind and if and if you'd like to talk further about Can we do this off the air, please this question I'd encourage you to call the apologists line at six one nine three eight seven Seventy two hundred and they can talk with with you more about this particular point.

But I guess the I'll leave the audience with with this thought. The key is to remember. As James chapter 1 verse 17 says in the New Testament every good and perfect gift is from the Father of light. Where there is truth.

We as Catholics love truth and we don't run from truth and we can rejoice in that truth Wherever it is found and in as much as Jews believe that God is one we can rejoice with him. We can agree with them and say absolutely God is one.

Muslims say God is one. We can rejoice with them and agree with them and That can serve as a beginning point To bring them to the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ and to the salvation that we have in him.

So.

Abraham I guess according to this Abraham's worship of Jehovah God. And remember John Jesus tells us in John 8 Abraham rejoiced to see my day. He saw it and was glad. That's the same as Muslim worship because it's just monotheistic.

But it wasn't the inner life of the full revelation of the Father Son Holy Spirit and therefore it's the same. Wow, what a what? Again, I I just I feel sorry. I Honestly feel sorry For anyone who has to defend Something like that.

I mean, that's a mess. There is there's no other way of putting it. That's a mess and We saw what happened in the debate this year it's it's impossible to keep yourself from being tied in logical knots in Trying to defend that kind of that kind of a priest and say it's just it doesn't work.

It doesn't work. Now just to illustrate this. Hadn't really thought about the direct connection, but just to just to illustrate this. I Was listening to another Shabir Ali debate this time. He was debating a David Schenck on the cross and the resurrection.

So here's a fellow who according to Tim Staples We can rejoice that he worships the one true God. Of course, we've listened to enough Shabir Ali now to know that that means we should rejoice that Jehovah's Witnesses worshiped.

Now maybe who knows maybe Tim Staples would say no no, no, he knows the truth and he's rejected it. I'm not sure how That fits with Muslims who clearly know I mean Islam comes after Christianity hello Islam's Islam scriptures.

Though showing tremendous ignorance of the Christian scriptures and the Jewish scriptures still directly refute and contradict the teachings of the Bible and I want you to hear this section of A very subtle very interesting attack upon the resurrection.

I want you to hear what Shabir Ali says here. I won't be responding necessarily everything he says but there are a couple sections that want to go to and it is interesting to contrast this With what we just heard from Tim Staples and Catholic answers and and really I wonder how would how would Catholic answers?

Respond To Shabir Ali and to this kind of a presentation now. What about the cross? Muslims believe that Jesus was not killed on a cross. The Quran says that the Jews boasted that they have crucified Jesus but the Quran says well now I'll tell you who am I solid who will action should be hello whom they kill him not nor did they crucify him.

But he was made so to appear to them. Well in the lady in a fellow who feel if he shut him in and those who differ concerning him are in doubt concerning him. Malah on behemoth ailment illa tiba all done.

They have no knowledge concerning him, but they follow only a Conjecture a supposition when I cut a loony Athena. They did not kill him for certain. But what I will not look you like on the contrary Allah raised him to himself.

But on Allah Aziz and Hakima and Allah is certainly Mighty and he is wise. Now according to this passage it appeared to the people that they had crucified Jesus, but they were not sure that they had crucified him.

They were in doubt Concerning him on the other hand what has happened is that? It was so made to appear to them. But God had raised Jesus to himself. Muslim commentators on the Quran have said that a Semblance was made for the people someone was made to look like Jesus and this someone was crucified.

Who exactly was this someone cannot be determined for certainty because the Quran does not say. Some Muslim commentators had said that Jesus had asked for a volunteer from among his disciples and one such volunteer was put to death.

After being made to look like Jesus some said that a certain Simon of Cyrene Was put to death. Of course the Muslim commentators went around talking to Christians to find out What Christians knew about this event and they found out that it was a certain report from early on.

That a certain Simon of Cyrene who was made to carry the cross for Jesus was actually made to look like Jesus. And he was crucified instead. In fact this story is very old. As old as the gospel according to John.

Just commentators on the gospel according to John point out that John has modified the narrative. In order to not mention Simon the Cyrene it is a very important point and The reason they say that John has modified the narrative to not mention Simon the Cyrene is because in John's day There were some people who were saying that this Simon the Cyrene who carried the cross Was made to look like Jesus and he was crucified instead.

Some Muslim commentators had picked up a story That in fact Judas Iscariot The one disciple of Jesus who had betrayed him who had turned him over to the enemy Was in fact changed to look like Jesus and he was crucified instead of Jesus Meeting the same fate that he had tried to plot for his master.

Now is there any support for this Muslim story? Yes. In fact there is support from archaeology, which I do not have time to mention and describe now in detail. But just very briefly biblical archaeology review magazine of August 1995 carries an article by Joan Taylor, which will revolutionize our understanding of the arrest scene according to that Article Jesus was in a cave when he was arrested.

It's very important because the cave has a skylight and there's a report going back to one of the Companions of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him Ibn Abbas, which says that Jesus was in a cistern Getting washed and when he came out from that cistern Eventually, he was carried up to heaven through a hole in the roof.

It is interesting that this cave which actually is called Gethsemane has a hole in The roof today pilgrims can go visit this cave in Jerusalem the second area. So here's here's the presentation now. We're all worshiping the same God, right?

I Am so glad that I do not have to to that I don't have some Overarching authoritarian system that can change its doctrine over time and I have to somehow go. Okay, whatever you say that That's what I'll believe now.

Oh my goodness, it is so wonderful to have an unchanging standard and And also, I don't have to worry about political correctness because I'm not on a radio network who would have a cow if I if I reviewed the sermons of such-and-such a Person or I made a comment about one of their favorite commentators or blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

So here here you have argumentation now we know. We've we've mentioned the program you've heard many times before a surah 147 surah for 157 Surah for ayah 157 that that should be something honestly I'm I'm suggesting in light of world events.

I'm suggesting in light of current Trends in the United States in growth in the Islamic community. I don't I don't think that we quote-unquote Calvinist should be the last ones aware of what's going on here.

I don't think we should be Unaware, I don't think we should be caught unprepared. I think we should be just as aggressive in Responding to Islam and bringing the gospel to Muslims as anybody else we have nothing to be ashamed of and Unfortunately, it does seem to in my experience so far that for a lot of a lot of Calvinists you you listen to This kind of argumentation and let's let's face some of the argumentation I mean, I've got I did get Shabir all these books and they are really bad.

I mean the books are much much less polished than he as he speaks. They're barely in English. They are very very poorly argued very very poorly documented just just horrible. And I think the problem is a lot of reformed folks just go well.

Yes, we draw our little robes on ourselves. We go. I'm used to reading I'm used to preparing to refute Amaraldians. And I just read the Institute's for the 47th time and this is just beneath me. Like we just aren't quite ready to get our our hands dirty dealing with Dealing with this kind of stuff when it comes up, and it just just shouldn't be that way.

And so I don't think there's anything wrong about challenging everyone to be aware just like I Mean, I've known Book of Mormon passages Moroni 10 4 5 money 10 32 second Nephi 25 23 these are things that give you a tremendous advantage in speaking to these folks and The populations are growing.

I don't know about you, but when I go by a mosque I go hmm that must mean there are some folks around here that believe that and you need to be prepared, so I don't think there's anything wrong in You going okay?

I need to even if I don't memorize the passage I need to a obtain a Quran a decent English translation of the Quran and I need to know how to look up surah 4 157 and Surah 4 157 says they even say we have killed the Messiah Jesus son of Miriam the Rasul of Allah the prophet of alive.

I need to know what it says that the Jews boasted they said in both We killed Christ Jesus son of Mary the Apostle of Allah, but they killed him not nor crucified him. But so it was made to appear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts with no certain knowledge.

But only conjecture to follow for of a surety they killed him not now. This is this is written Half a millennium later over half a millennium after the events far removed from The area geographically in a different language by a man who couldn't read and had no knowledge direct knowledge of the Christian scriptures the only way the only meaningful defensible way of defending something like that is to say this is Absolute pure revelation from God.

I'm not even going to try to say that there's really any connection with the scriptures. I'm not going to even try to argue anything historically. I'm gonna go with the Joseph Smith defense here. This is pure revelation from God, and I'm not even gonna.

I'm gonna put it completely outside The realm of anything that's testable all right got got to be able to do that. People are asking all of a sudden as soon as I said that people is it what what translation of Quran should we get?

Use if Ali is good. One of them here let me Narudin here is that there's a nice Leather bound one if you happen to like You know nice paper so on so forth. That's that's a good one to have Standing up here the first one that I had.

Yeah. That's what I changed out here this one right here published by by Princeton. This is the Ahmed Ali translation Is is pretty good many of them come with the Arabic along the side which to most of us looks like a little more than you know a little bit of.

I Don't know Decoration if you can track down Aleem 6 .0. That's the way to go. I mean that gives you Assad Malik picked all and use of folly with a transliteration of the of the Arabic all in parallel columns are actually above each other fully searchable so on so forth.

I could be completely wrong about this, but as I was trying to Contact the folks that made Aleem 6 .0. I couldn't get hold of Emails not responded to you try to order something it would come up out of stock.

I don't know what's going on. Maybe it's not Around anymore. I just don't know I'm just just point that out that I had some real problems trying to catch it if you want to get some of those Quran's. You can get Amazon has plenty of stuff.

Islamic bookstore calm. It ships pretty quickly, and I've I've built quite a little library There as well, so just some things there anyhow. These the arguments they're being made half a millennium after the events.

Someone without any connection the only way to make a meaningful argument. There is to say look. This is pure revelation. He's not drawing on previous sources blah blah blah blah blah. Because you just can't defend it from that and it sounds to me like she barely tries to say well.

You know there are these traditions and the commentators have found out about this story and that story is like that no. The fact the matter is Muhammad clearly does not know the Christian scriptures.

He misrepresents them over and over again and from a Christian perspective. This is a this is an an iller illiterate man half a millennium later in a different language who doesn't know what he's talking about that's that's really all there is to it and The result is what you hear in Shabir Ali and that is.

Anything that disagrees with this story that's told 600 years after the events more than 600 years after the events is Automatically suspect you just throw it out. If you find something the Bible that fits with your story.

You can keep it if you find something that contradicts it which will be the vast majority of the text you just chuck it you Just you grab the most liberal Protestant Theology you can find theologians commentators you throw them in there to say see you're right.

And you just you just check the whole thing that nothing about what's being said here. We're told that John Modified the narrative where is that coming from that comes from a Jesus seminar one tradition being modified by each apostle this is straight out of the Jesus seminar stuff and.

So John doesn't quote-unquote modify anything to get rid of Simon the Cyrene. That's again assuming that you've just got one story. You just got one stream, and they're just slavishly working off of each other and Even at that point even at that point John Dominic Crossan himself wouldn't go so far as to say well John may or may not have known of the synoptic.

I think John didn't know the synoptics. He has a completely different. That's why he's so different. Why repeat what they had said already. He's talking in a different context a different time. He has different purposes.

I think he fully knew about Matthew Mark Luke, and I could say John cuz he's writing John. He knew John Bernie Bales, but he knew about those things totally different than making the assertion. But well well commentators on John and notice that he modified know that that's again he has to be challenged and and challenged frequently to actually back up this kind of sweeping allegation, but Then there is a biblical archaeology review article, and it's an interesting article, and I think Mark Ennis back in the Midwest there for Tracking it down for me I'm actually getting all of bar on on disk here pretty quickly because I'd like to see what the responses to word to this.

But it's a fascinating article. It does not say exactly what should be early said it said and In fact the connections he draws there way over overblown what the article in essence says is that The picture that we've had of a garden Really comes from just a Plot of cultivated land which for us might be a garden.

But that actually could be a broad number of things and since this is the Mount of Olives there is a cave very large cave There on the Mount of Olives right across the Kidron Valley so in other words.

It's described. Just like it is in scriptures and It was a place where they would create olive oil they would press the the olives and create olive oil and The the thesis of the of the article, and I'm just Very quickly summarizing it for you.

Is that it seems like this was a place that Jesus and disciples went to and this is prior where they stayed the night? I mean The it rightly points out that at this time of year It would be quite cool at night with a very heavy Dew if you stayed out just under the stars you would be very cold and very wet by the morning you'd need some type of protection and This cave would be be perfect for that.

It's it would be it was very large is very roomy people worked inside it. So you're not talking about some little dark type of a situation like that. It's it's almost like a house except It was naturally there as far as very very wide opening and and things like that.

But you wouldn't have do in there, and you'd be able to Be much much more better protected from the elements and so on and so forth there at that particular place and There isn't any connection between Jesus washing himself and being taken up to heaven through a little hole in a roof and all the rest that silliness.

Instead it would seem the thesis of the article is that The arrest would have taken place at the mouth of this of this cave, okay quite interesting. But it almost I wasn't exactly sure what she barely was trying to connect there.

I really wasn't but let's just assume two things that he's trying to connect it to this earlier story in regards to Jesus being taken up from some cistern or then the other connection is well Maybe it has something to do With it being a cave and therefore they could be confused as to who they arrested.

Now as I've said before I've seen some of the most Incredibly complex, and I do mean complex beyond measure Arguments the people have put forward to try to come up with Simon or Judas. Look, let's face it the only way That you can substantiate the idea that Someone other than Jesus was crucified would be an absolute miracle.

Don't don't even try to come up with with why well it was dark, and it was at night nothing no. Come on. Think about this for a second. Think of all the places Jesus goes. Do you really think those scribes and Pharisees would be confused?

After having been refuted by this guy over and over and over again. Do you really honestly think that that they would be confused as to who this guy is and well It sort of looks like you. I'm not really sure no.

When when some guy has been standing in your home court making you look like a fool for a long time. You're not gonna be confused as to who that is they've seen him for a long time. They've been right up to his face.

There is no way on this earth that they're not gonna understand who Jesus is. You've got Mary at the cross you've got John at the cross you've got Pilate and Herod and You've got all these witnesses, and they all got it wrong.

No, that's ridiculous. You can't play the well. You know there is some confusion card no, there would be only one way to make this work, and that is a a parting of the Red Sea type of miracle where there is.

Well remember. Yeah, mission impossible mission impossible type makeup, okay, where you've got the you know you rip off the mask and all sudden you look like somebody completely different, you know and We all know it's done with special effects.

Well there had to have been a special effects artist involved here. That's the only way this could possibly work. Okay. Just go with the it's a miracle. That's how it happened. Trying to make connections is Absolutely positive ridiculous.

You've got to throw out the entirety of the text of New Testament. And you have you have no reason to even speculate about Simon the Cyrene if you don't have an accurate New Testament text anyways. So we're back to the pick and choose what you want to use what you don't want to use.

Don't have any type of consistent set of standards type argumentation if you want to go that direction, too. But that's what they're stuck with and as I as we've already said about surah 4 1 to 7. There's all sorts of different viewpoints amongst Muslims.

What what does it mean? Those who differ therein are full of doubts with no certain knowledge. This is one source Illiterate different language different place in the planet 600 years removed. You've got to throw 600 years of Christian history and Christian testimony out the window.

To give the first bit of credibility here. Can you imagine if someone? In AD 1250 Said something about Muhammad. That said he had nothing to do with the Quran in a completely different language. Let's say let's throw this person up into England in early English a Guy who's never read the Quran in a different language far removed 600 and plus years later says Muhammad didn't write the Quran.

How much Weight do you think Shabir Ali would give to that person? Hmm? Zip exactly and that's about as much weight as needs to be given to Muhammad at that particular point as well it's Just absolutely ridiculous.

Eight seven seven seven five three three three four one we come back. If there's any phone calls at eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. We will take your phone call and then I have one other clip to take as well.

So we'll be right back. Oh, oh I hear an AK Coming from the other room. It's it's I hadn't gotten any let's skip the break stuff.

We're on a roll I Let it run and you just going like crazy. This is fantastic. And oh.

So so you're so you're you're saying just just keep on rolling keep on rolling. You don't want to why interrupt. You don't want to. Get the people in the channel going. Who's that lady? What's what was the lady's name.

Ashley. Ashley, okay, is everyone happy now. And Ashley did the commercials years ago, okay. Ashley is now on Social Security. Give it up.

Good in fact, there's let's see what?

Well, you couldn't. Oh now you're gonna find it. More than any time in the past. Thank you. She has very good enunciation, yes, she does very very. Okay. All right. Well, then I'm just gonna go ahead.

And. And since certain people were not prepared.

Well, technically we did run a spot there.

We didn't know. One has no idea what that was about. Then again, most of that memorized. Since we have so many people knocking down our doors to advertise on the program. You know.

Yeah. Anyways, okay. We will. I saw. I'm curious while you're on this subject of Ashley. No. Oh, okay. Not not of Ashley. What do you think? Hmm? Cuz is it just political correctness that moved Rome to to do this.

Oh this this embracing of I mean goodness gracious in the last what 15 years 10 years even yeah, the things that all did in in the way of I mean What was in Qurans and things? I think Iran's. He went to a dozen a temple in Jerusalem.

Well, there were there were clear pressures put on Rome in light of Catholics being persecuted in Islamic countries. Islam is very good at persecuting other people and it's not a religion of peace the religion of subjection and submission and so the idea was appeasement this is this is remember the the largest portion of the Vatican to documents in essence were controlled by German theologians and German theology post World War two post Holocaust is.

A theology of appeasement is a theology of apology. It is a theology of oops. We really blew it there and that's why you you for example have in the background of the new perspective this this this Irrational fear of accurately representing what the New Testament says about the Jewish people about the Jewish leaders.

This is the same pressure that came on the passion film to avoid Quoting the gospel narrative where the Jewish leaders say his blood be upon us and upon our children and and blah blah blah blah so you have what we see right now in France the theology of appeasement and so We're not gonna send our troops to Iraq and we're not gonna do this and we're not gonna do that and that's gonna make everyone like us well.

You cannot appease Sharia law you cannot appease Islam because It's just not within it to be able to do that's why you don't have free Islamic countries because Sharia law does not allow Muslims to be ruled over by non-muslims and to share power and do stuff like that.

And it's just it's it's a mess when you try to create it as obviously someone's finding out right now, so anyways theologically. That's where it's it's coming from is this ecumenical impulse this this concept of of appeasement of Not so much a pluralism, but it definitely leads to polar pluralism.