Today’s Document from the Vatican on the Covenants and Putting the Shoe on the Other Foot

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00:39

Well, that's nice to know that I'm on I'm not on oh there it goes

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I don't know oh It froze again, okay, well

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I had a really exciting opening folks, but was stolen from me right as we got started by Someone else who will not be named

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Of the vast we can start over vast number of people in the office right now Anyway today is a

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December 10th and We have a new document coming out of the Vatican now

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It's not from the Pope It doesn't say We define declare and proclaim so for some people doesn't matter

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But as I'm looking at it here my goodness theology matters and Here, we're gonna see

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Why theology matters this thing is a muddled? mess It's a muddled mess

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That's because Roman Catholic theology is a muddled mess, especially today It you may not

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And it's not my area of expertise either I'll be honest with you I don't spend a whole lot of time in the especially super modern period of church history, but I Know beyond all shadow of a doubt.

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I've seen the incredible impact of historical events on theology in Western Europe in particular and what

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I mean by that is that since World War two and since the

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Holocaust there has been a Hypersensitivity developed that has created a

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Grossly warped lens through which the subject of Judaism and the subject of the

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Jews as a whole is viewed within Western theology and You remember what happened

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Oh who was the Southern Baptist guy? About a year and a half ago, maybe not even that long ago now,

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I think Big Southern Baptist name name is skipping me at the moment may have been the guy that talks some about Islam but he was preaching through Matthew 24 or as it was in Matthew and There was something strongly said about the

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Jews and he repeated it and ended up just getting jumped on People jumped right down his throat

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Because that's anti -semitic. So if you In in many New Testament Programs in in Europe.

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You can't even look at certain passages in first second Thessalonians Because it's just it's just not acceptable.

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It's just not acceptable and the idea that there could have been conflict between The Jews who rejected the

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Messiah and the Messiah and then the Jews who followed the Messiah conflict between them

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You can't talk about that. That's can't can't go there and Despite what

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Roman Catholics think Rome is just as deeply influenced by trends and movements and Developments as anybody else this idea of some apostolic

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Deposit of faith and all the rest that stuff is pure mythology. And So Rome's Rome's Understanding of The Jews has changed radically.

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I wonder why this new document doesn't talk about that. I Mean, it may be pretty easy to demonstrate that the

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Roman Church in Years past was directly involved in the granting of indulgences

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On the basis of the persecution of Jews oops, sorry about that that actually

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I saw it come up on Twitter Kofi was telling me it was Ed Young From second

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Baptist season you sure You sure it was. Oh Anyway, it was it was some it was

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Texas. I remember that If you if you quietly Get something going down there.

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I'd appreciate it Yeah, yeah, it is. Yeah, I didn't expect that. But anyway, anyhow, so I don't know how long ago it was that Bob's and Janice Started talking about the weirdness of Rome's Views on Judaism, but something tells me that if that if That he's probably gonna have some comments about this particular document in the not -too -distant future and they will be they will be full

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I would imagine this document

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It's called Commission for religious relations with the Jews the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable

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Romans 11 29 a reflection on theological questions pertaining to Catholic Jewish relations on the occasion of 50th anniversary of Nostra Aetate Number four and It's a fairly lengthy document.

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The only way to understand the key section that everyone is citing is To note a few things that are said earlier in the document.

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It's fairly lengthy document, unfortunately In and this available at Vatican VA if you want to look it up number in in paragraph or section 17

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With its declaration Nostra Aetate Yet yet Yet Aetate Aetate Aetate, sorry about that.

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I threw an extra syllable in there the church unequivocally professes that within a new theological framework the

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Jewish roots of Christianity while affirming salvation through an explicit or even implicit

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Faith in Christ. We've talked about Inclusivism so on so forth.

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I think a large number of the bishops are universalists I think Francis is probably universalist or at least inclusivist

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The church does not question the continued love of God for the chosen people of Israel Okay, what do you mean by that?

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Well, that's gonna become fairly clear section 18 There have often been attempts to I that I immediately and when

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I read the later sections that basically say Yeah, you know the the old covenant with the

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Jews is still valid It's not like there's two covenants, but it's still valid and Hence a lot of people are reading this as we you know, we don't need to convert the

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Jews We don't need to be calling them to faith in Christ. They have their own way of salvation You know the thought crosses your mind what what do you do at the

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Book of Hebrews What what do you do with that? And it's painfully obvious that the group of people who wrote this document released just today are as With everything

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Rome has to do has to do these days trying desperately to hold together What is in fact not a unified movement?

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You know when when Rome talks about one church all the rest that stuff all you've got to do is is

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Look with a little bit of care and what is being taught by people all across the

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Roman Catholic spectrum and the spectrum of belief being expressed in the name Roman Catholic is just as why is anything else and You say yeah.

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Yeah. Yeah, but but you've got Rome. Yeah, but if Rome allows you to teach this stuff

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It's sort of like saying well Daniel Kirk teaches for fuller. They didn't give him they didn't give him tenure

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Yeah, we're still letting him teach they didn't get rid of him so they're still accountable for it You think

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Rome doesn't know what's being taught at Boston College? Of course, you know, it's being taught Boston College So have they kicked those people out?

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No, so There you go So much for your unity. It's it's a unity of of theory not a unity of reality.

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It's it's it's amazing So anyways Hebrews Listen to this

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Incredible attempt To sort of get around Hebrews there have often been attempts to identify this and in the earlier section it talked about what it calls the replacement theory remember replacement theology

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By the way, I looked up fulfillment one time. It's used in a meaningful fashion in this in this text

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But it's sort of otherwise ignored there have often attempts to identify this replacement theory in the epistle to the

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Hebrews This epistle, however is not directed to the Jews, but rather the

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Christians of Jewish background who have become weary and uncertain

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Why had they become weary and uncertain because they were being called back to Judaism yes.

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Well forgot that part Its purpose is to strengthen their faith and to encourage them to persevere

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Why should they persevere if the other? Covenant if the Jewish Covenant is a valid covenant and a valid way to God if they went back what would it matter?

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Because they're both valid ways to God, right? No, I know not not not a single

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Pope up until this century or in the past 50 years Would have ever believed any of this stuff? never obviously duh well,

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I guess it's not duh because Need to remind all of our Roman Catholic apologist friends

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About this. I wonder I wonder what I'd like to hear what Tim Staple says about this

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That would be interesting or Jimmy Akin or whoever Its purpose is strengthen their faith and encourage them to persevere by pointing

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Jesus Christ Yes as the true and ultimate high priest the mediator of the new covenant

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Question, please. Mr. Person in the funny hat, sir Caught you there you weren't expecting that Ultimate high priest

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At the time of the writing the book of Hebrews there there were other high priests In the

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Jewish system that you're saying were really high priests. They they were okay So we had

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Jesus and we had others because they're they're both valid both covenants both valid same time

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Maybe for at least number of decades like four or so And the mediator of the new covenant.

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So does the Old Covenant have a mediator? Okay This context is necessary to understand the epistles contrast between the first purely earthly covenant

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And the second better and new covenant. I'm not sure why this is purely earthly I mean, it's they're earthly shadows, but it was established by God to point to its fulfillment and The point being that when it's fulfilled it

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Passes away The first covenant is defined as outdated in decline and doomed obsolescence

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That's right passing away While the second covenant is defined as everlasting to establish the foundations this contrast the epistle refers the promise of a new covenant in the book of the

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Prophet Jeremiah 31 this demonstrates that the epistle of Hebrews has no intention of proving the promises of the

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Old Covenant to be false But what were they they pointed to Jesus but on the contrary treats them as valid And fulfilled in the

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New Covenant The reference the Old Testament promises is intended to help

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Christians to be sure of their salvation in Christ. Oh the desperation when you when you're standing on a

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Foundation that is so full of gaping holes. Yeah, yeah almost That you almost feel sorry for these guys, but I don't

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Um The reference the Old Testament promises is intended to help Christians to be sure of the salvation

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Christ The only way that could be true is if what? Christ is the fulfillment of Those old

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Covenant promises fulfillment not replacement fulfillment At issue in the epistle of the

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Hebrews is not the contrast of the old and new covenants as we understand them today Well, here's one of those big problems because for the biblical

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Christian You want to define these things as the Bible does not as post -world

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War two European theology does Nor contrast between the church and Judaism Rather the contrast between the eternal heavenly priesthood of Christ Like the catch this let's remember who is saying this think about this for a second

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Rather the contrast is between the earthly. I'm sorry the eternal heavenly priesthood of Christ and the transitory earthly priesthood and Who has priests today

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Who ordains all of her priests Calling them alter

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Christos another Christ That would be wrong. Hmm Hmm the fundamental issue in the epistle of the

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Hebrews in the new situation is a Christological interpretation of the new covenant for exactly this reason

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Nostra a to t a a thought a Hard word to say a tata did not refer to the epistle of the

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Hebrews But rather the st. Paul's reflections in his letter To the

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Romans chapters 9 through 11 that You're almost left speechless

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But this is what happens when you have a Roman system That is not under the ultimate authority of the scriptures.

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This is what happens When you reject sola scriptura

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When you buy into all the sola scriptura leads to anarchy, here's the anarchy

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It's it's right here Remember at the end of the debate I did with Mitch Pacwa I got all those documents out now

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I could make that pile twice as high and the level of confusion twice as much and That's what happens

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When you reject sola scriptura so in section 23 the church does not replace the people of God of Israel Since as the community founded on Christ it represents in him

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The fulfillment of the promises made to Israel. Well, there's the there's the word that should be repeated a hundred times in this document full fill meant

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So, why is it a minor theme that doesn't end up truly impacting the

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Roman Catholic position? Real simple. You don't have a finished work You don't have real fulfillment since you since Rome has taken away that finished work and you're back to the parceling out of grace in the sacramental system and the never finished

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Perpetuatory sacrifice of the mass Fulfillment is not a real major theme.

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It can't be It can't be theology matters theology matters This does not mean that Israel not having achieved such a fulfillment can no longer be considered to be the people of God Although the church is the new people of God.

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The Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God as If this followed from the

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Holy Scriptures, so Rome's trying to have its cake and eat it, too it's it's trying in this new modern era to get the

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New Testament to say something that it doesn't say and It is painful

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To read these Attempts to put these things together and to hold this stuff together

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Section 24 both faith traditions find their foundation in the one

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God the God of the Covenant Who reveals himself through his word in seeking a right attitude towards God?

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Christians turn to Christ as a fount of new life and Jews to the teaching of the Torah well, if you're just trying to describe an

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Ecumenical conversation. Yeah, but that's not what this is Are you saying these are both valid you saying that Jesus would have accepted?

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This is valid You search the scriptures because in them you think that you have eternal life and it is they that testify of what?

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of the Torah No of me Of me It's so Painfully obvious But again, the

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Roman system is not under the authority of Scripture section 25

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Judaism the Christian faith as seen in the New Testament are Two ways by which

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God's people can make the sacred scriptures of Israel their own Really As seen in the

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New Testament you saying the New Testament Teaches the Judaism that the

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Judaism as a faith and Christianity as a faith are Valid ways of making the sacred scriptures of Israel their own

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But that's that that Paul would have said. Oh, yeah guys. Hey, I forgot to mention all this stuff

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I'm telling you about debating with you about you know about the Messiah and stuff like that That's just one way of looking at it as as you well know there's

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There's other there's other ways and I know you guys his way is cool, too. That's that's what

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Paul did right? No Then we've noted this before well

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You know, I keep seeing people on on Twitter. Cheers.

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Everyone our official story was tea. Um, I keep seeing people on Twitter saying things like I Really love the program

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We've got some really encouraging notes recently, by the way, some really really good ones and you may go why don't you read all those?

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I am Torn about that. I mean there are some I'd really like to read to you you know the fellow

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Charlie that wrote in and Raised in Roman Catholicism often, you know really detested me

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You know goes to college off into atheism and Then Through many things but this ministry included brought to faith in Jesus Christ.

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Why why don't we do that kind of thing? I think it's because Years ago.

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I listened to certain people on the radio a lot And I got turned off to the

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I've just always I've never wanted to communicate to folks that you know We are the cats meow we're the only ones out there

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I mean there is this one guy that would just constantly hammer away you know support this ministry and this stuff's not gonna happen and blah blah blah and I just I think

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I was damaged by it or something and I just I've just had to trust the

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Lord will move his people to support us without us having to try to trick you into doing it basically

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I Guess we are the world's worst promoters marketers and everything else. There's just absolutely no question about it

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But that's that's the way it is. Yeah, since you mentioned it. What was it the other day on Twitter? I see you posting a link to the

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Forgotten Trinity on Amazon oh Yeah, like excuse me

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We have our own store Maybe but I wasn't trying to get somebody to buy it. They were it was a it was a question about yeah

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Anyway, I just look on the subject. I just had to laugh Anyway How did

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I how did I get this? Oh, we've and I and I see people on Twitter Say hey, you know just love the show.

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We've been listening for six months for two years And when I sit here and say now we've mentioned many times before I'm talking 98 from following And and I realize

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I shouldn't do that Because most of you are not algo, you know algo knows that I've mentioned this many times before Nick in Ukraine knows that I've mentioned this many times before there are a couple of others of you who have introduced yourselves as the

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You know the German algo or the South African algo or whatever else it might be like that But we have a number of times in the past Made reference to official

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Roman Catholic teaching about the universal salvific will of God and what they mean by that is

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Different than what many a Protestant would mean by that in the sense of we are commanded by God Command all men everywhere to repent

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That we are to preach the gospel to all creatures We don't know the identity of the elect and therefore we are to proclaim to all people if you'll repent and believe you'll find

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Jesus Christ to be a perfect Savior got that that's That's not what

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Rome is saying any more than it was what John Wesley was saying What what they both are saying and this is where our minion ism and Roman Catholicism do the do the tango here together?

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is that there is not a specific A specific

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Decree of God that includes an elect people of God and this comes out in this section

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That his will for salvation is universally directed as testified by the scriptures

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Genesis 12 1 through 3 Isaiah 2 2 through 5 and 1st Timothy 2 4 Now most of you have heard us address universalistic passages before have heard 1st

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Timothy 2 4 We have even in talking about the movement to have

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Mary Defined as co -mediatrix gone through that very section because that's the sections they used to try to defend their their position

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But you will find that Assumption that errant assumption that there is no

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Redemptive love of God there is no Elect of God Etc.

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Etc. You'll find that all through Roman Catholic documents as Rome promotes various falsehoods as a part of their their perspective

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Therefore there are not two paths to salvation according to the expression Jews hold the Torah Christians hold to Christ Christian faith proclaims that Christ's work of salvation is universal and involves all mankind now is that universalism

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Or is that more the Norman Geisler God Christ makes all men Savable and then it's up to us whether we participate in that salvation or not.

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It might be both For the fact that obviously this document was written by a number of people and in fact it it almost seems to me this was a committee made up of a lot of people who had a lot of different differences with one another and Then they cobbled this all together because Doesn't flow all that well

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But anyway There is the statement The New Covenant does not revoke the earlier covenants, but it brings them to fulfillment.

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Well what? Fulfillment should mean what?

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Does that not mean is that not what the writer of Hebrews is saying is the old was looking forward to?

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types of shadows Once the reality comes what happens to the shadow? It remains just as valid and good.

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No, of course not. It's done away with passes away Which is exactly what happened in 80 70 right done

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Not can't say it anymore not not if you want to hold high positions in certain

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Certain seminaries things section 27 the term Check this out the term covenant.

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Therefore Means a relationship with God that takes effect in different ways for Jews and Christians I'd like I'd like to see you prove that one from lexical sources

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Haha Larry that again the term covenant therefore means a relationship with God that takes effect in different ways for Jews and Christians The New Covenant can never replace the old

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But presupposes it and gives it a new dimension of meaning. No, it fulfills it The old was pointing to it.

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It's fulfilled in it By reinforcing the personal nature of God as revealed in the

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Old Covenant and establishing it as openness for all who respond faithfully from all the nations

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Wow theology matters folks theology matters Yes, I I know

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Brother Moeller is is using that a lot these days and I think that's a good thing We just we all need to be repeating it regularly

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All right. Well, what's the big I? Oh my goodness. Sorry 330. I'm sorry. Um, let's let's get to the part that's getting quoted by everybody section 5 the universality of salvation in Jesus Christ and God's Unrevoked covenant with Israel.

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So evidently I think I wonder if Israel gets to rebuild the temple and do animal sacrifices

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I I don't see why not There it is section 35 since God has never revoked his covenant with his people

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Israel there cannot be different paths or approaches to God's salvation this is

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This is where they they just basically have to come on us and say We are trying to have our cake and eat it too, and it's just a mystery

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It's contradiction Both cannot be two at the same time, but we say they're gonna be Here's here's how here's how they do it

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The theory that there may be two different paths of salvation the Jewish path without Christ and the path with the

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Christ Whom Christians believe is Jesus of Nazareth would in fact endanger the foundations of Christian faith

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Yes, it would Confessing the universal and therefore also exclusive mediation of salvation through Jesus Christ belongs to the core of the

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Christian faith. Yes it does so too does the confession of The one

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God the God of Israel who through his revelation Jesus Christ has become Totally manifest as the

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God of all peoples in so far as in him the promise has been fulfilled that all peoples will pray to God of Israel to the

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God of Israel as The one God as if it's six one through eight. Well, I wouldn't say it that way

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I'd say more But anyway, the document notes on the correct way to present the

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Jews and Judaism in preaching and catechesis in the Roman Catholic Church Published by the Holy See's Commission for religious relations with the

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Jews in 1985 Therefore maintain that the church and Judaism cannot be represented as two parallel ways to salvation but that the church must witness to Christ as the

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Redeemer for all not I Thought that was Still holding to the old

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Orthodoxy that Judaism was not a valid way of salvation You know that that would have been consistent with the preceding

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Popes But hey with Rome You know as long as you make the current magisterium the final interpreter of all things words don't have any

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Words don't have any meaning It's like our Supreme Court now, you can have a law that says

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X and they go Well, it was meant to mean not X and so it's not

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X 1984 brave new world and the Vatican all at the same time.

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It's great The Christian faith confesses that God wants to lead all people to salvation theology matters

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That Jesus Christ is universal mediator of salvation Not the universal trier of salvation from the

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Bible's perspective, but the actual accomplisher of And that there is no other name under heaven given to the human race by which we are to be saved acts 412

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From the Christian confession that there can be only one path to salvation. However, it does not in any way follow

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That the Jews are excluded from God's salvation because they do not believe in Jesus Christ the Messiah of Israel and the

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Son of God Such a claim would find no support in the Soteriological understanding of st.

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Paul who in letter to the Romans not only gives expression to his conviction that there can be no breach in the history

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Of salvation, but the salvation comes from the Jews Well, it did because that's where the

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Messiah came from God entrusted Israel with a unique mission and he does not bring his mysterious plan of salvation and He does and he does not bring his mysterious plan of salvation for all peoples to fulfillment

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There we go without drawing into it his firstborn son Exodus 422

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From this it is self -evident It's always a buzzword for I can't explain this.

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Let's make it look really cool from this It is self -evident that Paul in the letter of the Romans definitively negates the question he himself has posed

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Whether God has repudiated his own people Just as decisively he asserts of the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable

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Romans 11 29 That the Jews are participants in God's salvation is theologically unquestionable

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But how that can be possible without confessing Christ explicitly is and remains an unfathomable divine

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Mystery we don't know It is therefore no accident the

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Paul's meteorological reflection to Romans 9 through 11 on the irrevocable Redemption of Israel against the background of the

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Christ mystery culminate in a magnificent doxology Oh the depth of the riches and the wisdom and knowledge of God how inscrutable are his judgments and how unsearchable his ways

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Bernard of Clairvaux says that for the Jews a determined point in time has been fixed which cannot be anticipated.

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So it's both and and we don't know and Don't ask

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I was about to say I have a Certain friends in a certain denomination that won't be able to object to that because they love the term mystery, too

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But I won't go there Hmm I know you get to answer the phone.

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Why should I care? You're the pincushion Next section another focus for Catholics must continue to be the highly complex theological question of how

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Christian belief in the universal salvific significance of Jesus Christ can it be combined in a coherent way with The equally clear statement of faith in the never revoked covenant of God with Israel Yeah, you think maybe fulfillment

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Maybe we are the true circumcision. Maybe we are the people of God made up of Jews and Gentiles Yeah, you'd think it is to believe the church to Christ the

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Savior for all there cannot be two ways of salvation Therefore since Christ's also redeemed were the Jews in addition to the

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Gentiles Here we confront the mystery of God's work, which is not a matter of missionary efforts to convert

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Jews but rather the expectation the Lord will bring about the hour when we will all be united when all peoples will call on God with one voice and Serve him shoulder to shoulder.

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Well There you go That's where they're getting. That's where all the news headlines are getting there.

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Don't convert the Jews Right there Here we confront the mystery of God's work, which is not a matter of missionary efforts to convert

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Jews But rather the expectation that the Lord will bring about the hour and we will all be united. Um We are already united.

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That's what the church is Jews and Gentiles together Confessing the one

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Savior Jesus Christ. So anyway, there's there's obviously, you know a lot to that but Mm Theology matters and here

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Rome has demonstrate, you know, I Keep running into people

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Who will talk about all sorts of reasons why they went to Rome and always an attack on solo scripture is in there and Yet when

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I start pointing out stuff like this When I start pointing out pointing out so you're telling me that I stack up all these

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Roman Catholic books and the documents of Vatican 2 and the Compendium of documents from Vatican 2 and now we've got this to you know, you put all this stuff together and that clarifies

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Romans 5 1 that clarifies The statements of Scripture no, it doesn't it has led to massive confusion that is a confused muddled well, no, and it clearly is theology that has been deeply influenced by History rather than Scripture.

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That's what you get. That's the result of solo scriptura right there All right.

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So there's the today's document. We're right on top of it Fact we beat

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Al Mohler to it. Whoo That's pretty unusual because he's on five days a week. We're only on well, whatever days we choose to be on At whatever times they choose to be on I'm sorry

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Whatever I can't hear you. We're on two ish times a tip two ish three ish 11 ish it all depends it at I Was looking at one of the many articles floating around the internet on Polling of religious people and their beliefs now

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We've all heard the polls Seriously wondering if the

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Pope knows who James White is. No We've all heard the polls that say what what is it still 60 62 %

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This is still up in the 60s. I think 62 % of the

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American population Identifies themselves in some way as Christian you and I both know

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That if nearly two -thirds of the people living in this nation were actually

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Christian This nation would be a completely different nation than it is

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You and I both know that the actual number of born -again redeemed regenerated living under the

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Lordship of Jesus Christ Christians in our society is a tiny fraction of That 62 or 67 percent whatever the last polls were

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And you and I really sit around and chuckle When these polls come out talking about what

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Christians believe You know 54 % of Christians believe this thing that you and I just go what?

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And of course they're throwing in the most that the Muslims the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses and one this

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Pentecostals and You just we we we've come to understand

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That people taking polls Probably are not the most

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Theologically adept of folks on the planet, you know and Hence I anyways

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Look at polls about religious belief with tremendous skepticism Because I am so often

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Misrepresented by those very polls and I hate when people say yeah, but Christians believe this because I don't believe that well that just puts you in the minority and and it

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No There's all sorts of there all sorts of nominal Christians You know, you got

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Billy Bob hanging out in Arkansas someplace and oh He's a

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Christian cuz he's an American. That's just just the way it's supposed to be and so when they ask him about Immigration or whatever, you know,

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I mean now all Christians are responsible for that and I go No That that this is that no clear -thinking person is gonna go.

41:58

Yeah, that's highly relevant. There's No, you're not gonna do that. Well, I Think most of you probably would agree with what

42:09

I was just saying, but the article I'm looking at isn't about us It's an article called challenging the tiny minority of extremists myth and It goes along with a video

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I saw from that Ben Shapiro fellow where he was

42:33

Going through Basically making the argument that well over half of the world's

42:38

Muslims are all radicalized and how did he come up with that?

42:45

well, I Did notice that it was? Based on Percentages of Muslims who agreed with a certain set of statements the most common one was

43:02

That they believed in Sharia and if you believe in Sharia, you're radicalized this past Sunday I was speaking in a church st.

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Charles, Missouri and I said the congregation I said how many of you in this room?

43:22

believe That Someday Every knee will bow

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Every tongue will confess That Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. How many of you believe that area of a puts your hand?

43:39

I didn't count but I assume I thought and said you're all a bunch of radicals

43:45

You're all radicalized. I mean if you really believe that there will be a day when religious freedom ends by divine fiat and force

43:57

Divine fiat force not military fiat force. That's one of the most important differences We're all radicals and From the perspective of many people writing today they recognize

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That as long as you have monotheistic religions everybody in them that takes that religion seriously is radicalized

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If that religion includes within it a final Situation where God wraps everything up and makes everything, right?

44:29

That's considered radical That's considered radical now when you say well 70 % of the

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Muslims in nation X Believe in Sharia and that makes 70 % of them radicalized

44:48

Did you ask them? What they meant by Sharia? Let me let me put the shoe on the other foot again

44:56

I know some of you people do not like the fact that I'm putting the shoe on the other foot, but You know that I saw that one guy

45:04

Something was posted today from one of those secret places on the internet as if there are such secret places and This guy says

45:11

I'm I'm I'm now sailing in dangerous waters Actually, I'm just being as consistent as I've ever been.

45:17

I haven't changed a licking Let me put the shoe on the other foot how many of us believe that God's law is good and just and righteous careful

45:33

Be careful What's Paul say in Romans 3 do we do away with the law or do we establish the law and Is Paul's statement that the law is a bad thing or that it's a good thing as long as it's understood properly

45:51

See you can't say that God's law is a bad thing no Christian could ever say that who has a an inkling of understanding the

45:58

New Testament, which Might say something right there But we believe God's law is a good thing

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But do all Christians have the same understanding of God's law No Don't So, why would you say ah, but X percentage of Muslims believe in Sharia?

46:22

Do you know what Sharia is? Do you know how many different interpretations there are I mean, you know, the

46:31

Taliban has got its interpretation It's different than what you've got in Saudi Arabia, they're both

46:39

Barbaric and frightening, but they're not identical There are all sorts of different interpretations of Sharia.

46:49

I mean Just like we have all sorts of different interpretation. You think that maybe the guy is taking the pole?

46:58

You think they're experts in Sharia? And who are these

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Muslims that they're asking these questions of how many of them are nominal How many of them are truly religious

47:12

Representational of the worshiping community there Or just nominal because that's what you are in this country.

47:24

And then there was something else Aside from the fact that again, we would ask all these questions if we're the ones being attacked

47:34

We would be asking all these questions about well How was the question phrase and who was being asked and who do you consider to be a

47:41

Christian? And how did you how did you filter out the nominal people and how'd you filter out the people just?

47:48

Decide that would be fun to answer some questions for you who really don't have a clue what the world they're talking about Even though we'd ask all that stuff

47:56

I'm not seeing very many Christians asking that and you know putting the shoe on the other foot thing again

48:02

That's a bummer, but got to keep doing it Because if we don't and the same kind of argumentation is gonna be used against us

48:13

When it is you're gonna sit there sucking your thumb Have nothing to say

48:19

Because you weren't consistent the first one, but then there was something else.

48:24

In fact, let me well

48:30

I could almost Pick up any one of these it was toward the bottom as I recall

48:39

Yeah, well, okay like here's one a recent poll 70 77 percent of Muslims in Denmark believe the

48:49

Quran's instruction should be fully applied if you ask

48:56

Christians should the Bible's instructions be fully Applied what do you say? I mean again, it's a poll thing.

49:02

They go. Well, excuse me, but we talk about How we interpret the Bible could we talk about Old Covenant New Covenant?

49:09

What are we talking are they gonna do that which instructions

49:14

I mean, especially The Bible is so much clearer It's so much bigger.

49:21

It has so much more context which instructions but the other thing is what happened to the other 23 %

49:31

And this is the point there was there was one Let me see here.

49:39

I forget which which country it was

49:45

I was gonna mark this but It was uh, basically something along the lines of it was a an

49:56

Asian country And it said something along the lines of 39 % maybe that'd be the way

50:05

I could do it. Does this have a find function in it? That'd be something it'd be nice to have actually format

50:14

Edit ah Fine within note. Hey, it is there good 39.

50:23

Ah Okay, that'll work 39 percent of Indonesians have a positive view of Hamas Okay now

50:36

I think that's terrible, but Doesn't it sort of prove the point that I've been trying to make the past few weeks that means that 61 % don't

50:53

We're who are they? Who are these 61 % every time you see these?

50:59

You know 16 % of young Muslims in Belgium state terrorism is acceptable. That meant that 84 % didn't and all

51:09

I'm hearing is a people going. Oh, look at these numbers. Look at these numbers and I'm like, yeah But none of them are a hundred are they and that means there are other people that are saying no

51:19

Yeah, there's doing that because they're afraid of okay, maybe go ahead and double them if you want The point is there are people on the other side and I still don't understand.

51:32

I do not understand Why so many of my brothers and sisters aren't getting this?

51:39

Refuse to get refused to hear it. Just absolutely refused to hear it if you're talking

51:46

To one of that percentage that doesn't and you demand to hold them accountable for the other people's views

52:00

You're misrepresenting them and you will never get anywhere in speaking the truth to them with the shoe on the other foot a

52:12

Muslim comes to you and Tries to hold you accountable For Roman Catholic teaching

52:20

Absolutely insisting the majority of Christians in the world are Roman Catholics They've been around the longest you need to believe what they believe you

52:30

I don't believe that they believe and then you try to explain it and no, no, I don't care You don't speak for the

52:37

Christian world the Pope does You're a minority and this is especially true of all of us reformed folks.

52:45

We're a minority of a minority Hello Don't you don't you want to be held accountable for what you believe rather than what somebody else believes and If they just insist

53:00

That you actually do believe this other stuff, but you're just lying to them No, we know you really believe in this you're just lying to us

53:08

How far are they gonna get with you? Not very fertile So again, if you actually want to reach this person you actually want to interact with where they are and what they believe

53:22

Aren't you gonna have to stop this foolish All Muslims believe the same thing thing.

53:30

Now if you want to argue that this one particular interpretation

53:39

Is the most consistent way of understanding Muhammad and stuff like that argue it all you want.

53:46

I think you're giving away the store. I Think you are assuming a level of consistency

53:55

That doesn't exist but fine That's not the same thing as Arguing that all

54:05

Muslims believe the same thing. They're all to be thrown in the same boat and treated the same way You go there

54:13

What you know I'm making I'm taking the same stands. I've taken all along But what

54:20

I am seeing that I've never seen with the clarity of the past couple of months

54:27

It really started over a year ago, but especially over the past couple of months, you know,

54:34

I was so pushed away by the use the term homophobia as A just a baseball bat with no meaning that any phobia just seems like a cheap

54:51

Debating trick that really isn't meant for debates It's just meant to get emotions going and most of the time it is

54:57

Most of the time it is and the vast majority of the time that care talks about Islamophobia It's it's rhetoric cheap rhetoric doesn't have any meaning got that But man,

55:11

I have seen Islamophobia. I The other side

55:17

That simply turn off the reasoning faculties

55:23

When you go, well, you know there are Muslims who believe in number of different things

55:30

There's a spectrum of them out there and and you need to be prepared to you know I'm only talking to Christians.

55:36

You need to be prepared to To bear testimony the gospel to every kind of Muslim You know, it'd be like it'd be like if we went if we used to go up to Salt Lake City and If we just assumed that everybody there was actually a secret polygamist.

55:54

Well, some of them were You use the Adam God thing, but let's just say look the only true

56:02

Mormon is a polygamist and I know you've got wives hiding someplace. How effective we have been in Reaching the

56:10

Mormons if we did not recognize the range of expression of Mormon belief

56:17

So the only thing I can conclude the only thing I can possibly conclude is that there are a number of you out there

56:24

That don't care Whether you are actually preparing yourself to properly

56:31

Minister the gospel of Jesus Christ and the truth of his word To an entire spectrum of the

56:39

Muslim people Because you are just absolutely committed to the idea that all Muslims are like this

56:44

That all Muslims are wearing a black mask waving the Isis flag and have an ak -47 strapped their shoulder.

56:54

I saw that argument shift slightly over the weekend and It's now the okay

57:00

I as a Christian can look at a surah and I look at Muhammad's early life and how militant and violent he was

57:07

He wasn't militant about in his early life. What's that? He wasn't militant and violent his early life. It was his later life well, that's the arguments

57:14

I'm saying okay, and Therefore I see it then they must see it and it's not rational for them to not see it and So it's plain as day to me

57:26

Therefore it must be plain as day to them and anybody who is Muslim who denies this

57:32

I don't care what their Hadith say They're all sleepers, yeah, and it's a distinction without the difference.

57:38

That's the big argument. It's all a distinction without a difference Yeah, I don't there's not much we can do other than to to Do two things to warn

57:50

Christians. You have to be consistent and then to model that in lovingly seeking to continue interactions with Muslims and Demonstrate how that can be done

58:04

Do I run the risk of Losing my life. Do I run the risk of being deceived by someone?

58:11

Yes We're called to be fools for Christ on that level Because you and I don't get to make that judgment call.

58:17

That's God's that's God's call We are called to testify. Do you think

58:24

Paul was a fool to get himself stoned? Don't you think you should have avoided those situations?

58:30

He didn't What's our excuse the questions to think about?

58:36

At the end of the program today only two topics, but they were rather Divergent from one another and Hopefully got you thinking in the process as well.