What If Trump Wins?

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When the scribes and Pharisees asked our Lord about the greatest commandment, He replied, You shall love the

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Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.

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So, why do we hear some of today's most prominent pastors saying things like this? It had everything to do with how we talk about the

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Bible. And specifically, or along with that, what we point to as the foundation of faith, which for most

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Christians, unfortunately, is the Bible. We need to do better.

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We need to love God with all our hearts and stand unashamedly on the rock of His Word. We need to love the

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Lord with all of our souls and respond to the worldview issues of our day with the wisdom and discernment that comes only from Him.

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We need to love the Lord with our minds and understand the calling of God's people in every area of life in God's world.

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We need to love the Lord our God with all our strength and face the work of building a life -giving, God -honoring culture.

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Join us for 10 days at the Runner Academy for Cultural Leadership as we consider how the gospel influences all of life and culture, and the role that we have to play in applying foundational

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Christian thinking to every area of life. Non -rockabotas must stop.

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I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it! Are you gonna bark all day, little doggie, or are you gonna bite?

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We're being delusional. Yeah, I love to get delusional. Delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional.

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You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt.

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She hung up on me! Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.

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The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage.

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Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Right. Don't go into the world and make homies.

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Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle, Nick. That's a joke,

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Pastor. When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

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I will tell of the decree the Lord said to me. You are my son.

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Today I have begotten you. Ask of me and I will make the nations your heritage and the ends of the earth your possession.

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You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Now therefore,

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O Kings, be wise. Be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve the Lord with fear and rejoice with trembling.

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Kiss the Son lest he be angry and you perish in the way for his wrath is quickly kindled.

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Blessed are all who take refuge in him. What's up, everybody? Welcome back.

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I assure you. And so I want to thank everybody for watching today. You saw the title of the show, What If Trump Wins?

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Interesting because 2016, when this whole thing was going down between Trump and Hillary, we had a really fun year.

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A really fun year on ApologiaRadio. I gotta say, I am so looking forward to this year to be able to interact with the current events and the news, the election, and all the election issues.

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It's just gonna be, I think we're, I'm thinking we're, Methinks we're in for a wild ride.

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Methinks. I think we're in for a wild ride. It's already been a wild ride. That's an understatement. The answer is yes. But I think it's gonna be a wilder ride than 2016.

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And so we want to talk about it. We want to talk about what if Trump wins, what if Trump doesn't win. How do we respond to what's going on around us as Christians?

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Do we just go into Christless conservatism and firm up our commitments to the GOP and the Republican Party and all that mess?

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Or do, is there a better way? Is there a better way, a way that is more faithful, more fidelity to Christ and to Scripture?

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That's what we're gonna do. So we're gonna play some clips, I think. We're gonna go through some of the things that have changed in terms of Trump's position on some issues, and we're gonna talk about what's going on.

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We're gonna do it from a Christian worldview and in light of Psalm 2, what I just read. Ask of me,

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I'll give you the nations for your inheritance, the very ends of the earth for your possession. We are so glad you joined us. That's Luke the

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Bear. What up? Hey, apparently, sorry, it's our internet's not cooperating today or something.

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So, oh, people are saying it's choppy, but, and I got it spinning on my end. So, I don't know what's going on.

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Oh no, oh no. Thanks for bearing with us. Yeah, bear with us, guys. Just rewind it a little bit and let it load.

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I don't know what's going on. Anyway, sorry. Raise your hand in the air and then do this. Literally, today's nothing has gone as planned.

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Yes, no, that is true. Yes, yeah. We actually had a show all prepared for you guys on Elon Musk saying

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Christianity is what's necessary for the salvation, essentially, of the West. It's necessary if we lose

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Christianity, you know, it's an awful thing. And we're supposed to have our guest

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Zuby on today. He got caught in traffic, so we're gonna get him hopefully next week. And anyway, so we are excited.

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We've been wanting to talk about this stuff anyways, and it's gonna be part of what we talk about. I'm Jeff, The Kalman Ninja, and that is Zach Conover, Director of Communications for EAN.

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What's up, everyone? Hey, everyone, just to get everyone into praying and participating with us in what's coming up over the next year, just wanted to give you guys a heads up.

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We had been telling you all we had 18 prospective states with bills of abolition and equal protection going in across the country, all the way from Iowa, Indiana, Texas, Arizona, Louisiana, Georgia, Pennsylvania.

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I mean, it really is happening across the country. Some of those bills are our bills. We've been able to talk to the legislators and get them in, some of our bills of our friends and people we highly respect.

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Their bills we're backing them up on, but at the time we'd been telling you is 18, now we learned it is 21.

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And so please be in prayer, because that is a huge thing to bite off, and it's not just us. This isn't our thing.

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We are partners with Christians across this country to make this happen, and so we need you to join with us in this.

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It's happening so many places that we cannot do this on our own, and this small number of people who have gotten these bills in across the country, they can't do it on their own.

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Yeah, and yeah, we all need each other. We need each other, and so please participate. You're like, I want to know how

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I can be involved. We need you. First, go to endabortionnow .com, sign up there, get your church church signed up, stay connected with us, and of course, please financially give.

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We need help. I mean, pulling off 21 states with a crew as small as ours, with a budget as small as ours, is very, very difficult.

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Some would say impossible, but God. So we need that financial support, but we also need your hands and feet, and so we'd love to be a part of this with us, so please join us.

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We just had a meeting yesterday with pastors from across Arizona. Phenomenal. Very good. Very good meeting.

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Pastors across Arizona. Kosti Hinn is one of those pastors. Very grateful to have him on board with us and serving in this area as well.

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We got a bill coming here in Arizona, our own state as well, and so it's happening, everybody, and we need you.

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We need the church, pastors. If you're watching this right now, we need you. If you're like, well, I wonder if I can help. The answer is yes and amen.

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Please help us. So we're gonna get into the show, but before we do, I talk about it a lot.

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It's been so great. I got my kid back in, and I'm doing my loading cycle right now with it, and the last two days, one of the benefits of NAD, and it's one of the things that Ben Greenfield, my friend

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Ben Greenfield, mentioned to Joe Rogan on that podcast, was that NAD is really, really good if you've been sleep -deprived, and I have felt that.

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You haven't been sleep -deprived lately, have you? My goodness gracious, have I ever. I'm so sleep -deprived right this very minute, but I haven't put my

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NAD patch on yet. Anyway, the last two days I put the patch on, I felt like so alive and vibrant and good.

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Still, like you're like mentally, you know, you're like, I clearly haven't slept, but like I just felt like yesterday, even near the end of the day,

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I was like, man, I feel like good and energized and alive and focused, and so it's been really helpful.

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So I do this because it is awesome. Do your research on benefits of NAD, and you'll see exactly what

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I'm talking about. So I've researched it for years. You guys, I've said it before, I was so scared to start doing it because all

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I knew about was the IV treatment version of it, and that's like super painful. It's just very difficult to get through, and I played a clip of that recently with Ben Greenfield on Joe Rogan talking about it.

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Anyway, so I have this here. I got to put it on, and this is the NAD kit you get from IonLayer .com.

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And so I brought it because I need to wear it, and I'm doing my loading cycle with it right now. Do you need a knife to open that?

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Would you like a knife? I happen to have a very nice knife. Would you like a knife made from a

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Navy SEAL, a DEVGRU SEAL 26? Because that's what those are, and they're amazing. It's on the cutting edge.

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That's right. Ah, there you go. Anyway, so I'm just, I wanted to show it to you because many guys have been asking questions about it.

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So this is the kit you'll get. You get like five NAD treatments. Again, the cost for these is like substantially lower than the

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IV treatments, so I like that too. And you actually get more NAD, and it's fresher because you're mixing it on the spot.

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So while we're talking, while we're chatting, I'm just going to put it together. You know, you guys are just hanging out with us in the studio.

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You're just going to see me sort of putting the thing together. So what you do is you get... I know this new way they wrapped it, it's...

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They wrapped it. You almost need an Amtac knife. You really do. Look at all that juicy

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NAD. It's delicious. Have you eaten it? I wonder what would happen if you did.

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Open it up. It changes the whole thing. It's like that movie where he takes that pill, the limitless pill.

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I'm not tired anymore. So this is the NAD. This stuff is very expensive, like I said, if you get their

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IV. And usually it's pre -mixed, so by the time you get it, there's some degrading of it. But you mix it on the spot when you get it.

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You get a little vial of the NAD so you can mix it fresh. You get this little thing right here. So this will keep the patch on you and also keep it from getting wet.

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It looks like this. Yeah, it looks exactly like that. Luke's impressed that I'm able to put it on by myself.

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He's like, I need to have my wifey. The base is easy, but getting that cover on there is where it gets tricky.

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And this is the solution. You mix into the NAD. Let's see here. What else? I'm just showing you how simple this is.

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You get one of these. That's the actual medical patch thing. With batteries. Yeah, it's for the skin.

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It actually has got a battery in it. It basically gets the NAD into your system through your skin over like 14 hours throughout the day.

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So yeah, this is the kit. This is what it looks like. You get all this stuff. Let me make sure I've got everything in there. Yes, and boom.

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So that's it. Put that away. And as we're chatting here, you can see me putting it together and putting it on. And so you'll see how easy it is.

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And if you guys want to get on that. Get on the NAD train. You know, people start their new year exercising, getting well.

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And one of the things I want to say that has had me focused on this is that I'm starting

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Durban 2 .0 with my family. So my wife and I got married young. We just had our 25th wedding anniversary yesterday.

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Quarter century. Quarter of a century. Been married to each other more than half our lives. And we got married young.

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And so we had four biological children. And I got two grown out of the house.

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I got five grandbabies. Kids, they're married now. I got one getting married in March. Luke's marrying with Zach.

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Marrying my daughter and her fiancé. That'll be my third. That's right. And my youngest biological child is 15.

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And so they're grown. Then all of a sudden the Lord drops adopted children into our laps. And so I've got now a four -year -old and now two preemie twins.

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So I've been thinking a lot about as a Christian. And you know, this is a great conversation.

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This is a really good conversation. Let's do this. Actually, because we've talked about this before. I've been thinking a lot about taking care of my body.

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And making sure that I'm well for my kids. So like if I'm starting Durban 2 .0.

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Like I've got preemies now. And I'm 45 years old. I need to be well for them.

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And one of the things that is...

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It was a powerful thing to read. I was reading the accounts of the missionaries that were like coming to Hawaii.

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And some of the stuff that they're sending church and organizations were saying to them. And just as Puritans in general too.

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Like as we're sending missionaries out. They of course would always instruct their missionaries. And planting pastors.

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Like you need to be in the word. And you need to be spiritually well. Like you need to be well. And you need to be taking care of your family spiritually.

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But one of the things they also would tell them. Is that you need to daily not only be in the word. But you need to be about physical exercise.

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Because if you're not physically well. You're not going to be able to care for your church. And so you can't let yourself physically go.

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Because this is too much work. And you can't let yourself fall by the wayside.

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And you need feet to take the gospel message around as well. I just thought it was so cool. That the Puritans sending missionaries were like.

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You need to exercise and be physically well daily. And so that was powerful. I love how they just thought about that comprehensively.

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Holistically. So I've been thinking a lot about that lately. So just for me. My doing this and then sharing it with you guys.

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My own thing is exercise. Getting strong physically well. I train in martial arts regularly.

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The last two months have been hard. Because the preemies. Or three months. But just staying focused on that.

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And the NAD treatment is just a way to sort of get my body. Back to where it's working at it's optimum levels.

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And NAD is in your system. If you went out for 30 seconds. You would die. It's what your system uses.

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In so many different functions in your system. So that's what I'm doing. Alright. Let's get to it.

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Trump. Let's talk for a second about Trump.

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When 2016 hit. And Trump was running for president against Hillary. We took a lot of heat.

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And I mean. I can reflect back on. We were just getting nailed. By people who really loved us.

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The disagreement was so fiery. It was a split within evangelicalism.

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It really was. We were just simply saying. Look I grew up with Trump. In the atmosphere and on the news.

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As a businessman. I was born in 78. I'm an 80's baby. Grown through the 80's. And seen him on the news all the time.

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Throughout the 90's. He was this leftist businessman. He was pro -choice.

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He's this New Yorker. And so now all of a sudden. He comes out as conservative. And he's standing for conservative things.

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I was a little suspicious. I think so many of us were suspicious. And I was worried.

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Are we being played? And has there been enough time to say. This man really believes these things.

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And so there was this viral thing that happened. It was Steve Camp. Where we had

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Steve Camp on. And we just wanted to engage the issue. We wanted to engage the issue.

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Steve Camp. Contemporary Christian music singer. Kind of guy. Popular in evangelical circles.

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He was all about Trump. And we were in a place where we were very skeptical. I don't know. Can we support a guy that does this and this?

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And it went so south so fast. I don't know if that clip is on the internet anymore.

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But let me just say. I'd like it to disappear and go away. For Steve and our sake.

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It just went so south. And I was like, it didn't have to happen like this. And anyway. So 2016 was a rough moment for us.

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But I will say. Of course. I grant. I'm thankful. I'm thankful for many of the things that Trump did.

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I like someone who punches back and resists.

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I like the fact that. Let me tell you what I like about Trump. I like the fact that Trump will call you out.

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And he will take the floor out from underneath you. And he will say what all of us wish we could say in those positions.

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But you'll even have strong conservative leaders. That won't say what needs to be said at times.

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And won't punch back. And I like the fact that Trump will just punch back. He doesn't care. He doesn't need your money.

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I like the fact that he didn't take a paycheck. I like the fact that he operated as a president in the

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United States of America. He never took a paycheck. And that says a lot about his commitments. It really, really does. And to your point, he's a lot of things.

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But he's not weak. That's right. He's not weak. He began to grow on me.

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He began to grow on me. Like a pit bull? Before you take that too far.

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I am not giving a pass to the shakiness of his character at times.

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I'm not giving a pass to the abusive ways that he handles people at times. What I am saying is

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I admire a courageous leader that will say what needs to be said when it needs to be said.

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I admire that. We've lacked that for so, so long. So I like that. I was very excited early on.

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And I'll be honest, at first I was so skeptical. I'm like, can we really do this as Christians? Vote for a guy like this? And then

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I started seeing him talking about the issue of abortion. And he bit down. All right, human from fertilization.

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All right, we've got to protect those human beings. Took it to its end. And he took it to its logical conclusion. Alive, and you're going to see that in a minute here.

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On a news report. He was like, well, yeah, there would have to be some punishment for a woman taking the life of her child.

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And I was like, whoa. Look at that consistency. That came from the guy that I was suspicious of.

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And I was just like, I'm having a really challenging time managing this in my own head. Wait a minute.

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Yeah, he was saying things that the establishment wouldn't say. And then the establishment comes in. And they're like, whoa.

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Hold your horses there. Orange face. Hold your horses there, orange. We don't really believe they deserve to be equally protected.

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We don't really believe that. We're not there. So there was this sort of waffling in the back and forth. But I was excited.

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I was like, yeah, that's pretty good. I love the fact that he says what Christians should be saying.

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In terms of war, that we ought not go to war in an unjustified manner.

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And that we should not be trying to police the world and start wars. We should really get our troops home. We have our troops out.

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And we're spending tons of money, of taxpayers' dollars, on wars that we should never have been involved in.

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According to a biblical worldview and just war theory, there are wars that we should not have participated in.

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And I like the fact that he was like, look, he brags about the fact that I didn't start any new wars. I was trying to get everyone home.

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I'm like, I wish more Christian politicians would talk like that. Because that's what we should be doing.

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I was all for, I'm thinking like Ron DeSantis. DeSantis. DeSantis.

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Speaking of Ron, he just dropped out of his campaign. He did. And he endorsed

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Trump. He endorsed Trump. And then Trump officially said, I will no longer call him a desanctimonious.

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Yeah, there's a little bit of a peace treaty going on there. I missed that. You've got to think that he's dropping out to make room for Trump because he sees him as the most favored.

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Maybe he'll run as vice president. That would be really cool. Ron Paul. I don't think they could get along.

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Ron Paul was the guy that was always saying, end the Fed. Shut down income tax.

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And he was saying, pull all of our troops home. Get us out of all these unjustified wars. Wars we don't belong in.

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And I'm just like, Ron Paul. Ron Paul. Cost us money. But I was like, oh, that's nice.

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Trump's there too. And I really appreciate that. And people were busting his chops that he went and tried to make peace with Russia and China and North Korea.

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And I'm like, isn't that what we're supposed to be doing? Do we want to be at war with the world?

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You can have a position of strength without trying to bully the world or put everyone under your boot.

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It's kind of a nice thing to try to make peace. Blessed are the peacemakers. Someone said that.

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And North Korea too. And so I was like, I was really thankful. I was like, these are good things.

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And I'm not saying we give China and North Korea a pass when they're wicked and sinful. I'm not even saying that. I'm saying for a leader to say with strength, we'll hurt you if you hurt us.

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But let's talk. Let's not be at war with each other. Let's be at peace. And so many people are upset. They're like, he tried to create a relationship with Putin or whatever.

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It's like, yeah, that's because that's what a faithful leader does, I think. Is they try to make peace with the world and not go to war with the world.

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We're supposed to be Christians, peacemakers. Now look, we are not, clearly, if you look at our history, we're not pacifists.

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We all have guns right now in this room. And we're all about self -defense and the

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Second Amendment. We're not pacifists. But we're supposed to be peacemakers. And so we should say, hey, that's a good leader.

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That's a good leader. Someone who's leading with strength and says, don't mess with us or I'll hurt you. And I'll hurt you instantly. But let's talk.

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Let's make peace. Let's not be at war with each other. I'm like, he's a faithful leader. I think other leaders obviously respected that, too.

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The fact that he wasn't weak. But that he was also wanting to build that bridge, in a sense, of peaceful relations.

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I very much doubt that the other nations external to the United States right now are looking from the outside in at the man who currently occupies that residency with respect.

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President Biden? Yeah, no one respects him. He has no strength. He's not even coherent. He can't find his way off the stage.

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He's clearly not the person running the country. Not in his condition. I don't know a lot, but I know that much.

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Whoever's in charge, it's not him. That's right. It's going to be an interesting year. Everyone knows.

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Biden still says that he is running. Which I think is amazing.

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He's getting worse by the day. What hatred from his family and those around him. Just absolute hatred.

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Power hungry people is what it is. That's true. You take a man who is in his condition, who needs so much help and assistance.

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You're just going to encourage him to keep going. I'm sure this looks weird right now.

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You put just the right amount in there. He says he's still running. You've got

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Trump winning now like Iowa. He just won New Hampshire. DeSantis pulled out of the race.

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It's looking like it's going to be Trump that gets the nomination. It'll be Trump versus Biden again.

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I think we should talk about it as Christians and say, okay, what does that mean? And how do we really change things?

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Maybe this will launch us into the larger discussion. I'm going to play this clip. This is, forgive me, it's from CNN, but they did pull together a rather good montage of the change.

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And this just goes to show in terms of like, well, do you approach this with a Christless conservatism and save America? Let's say it this way.

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And I think we did talk about this last week. We were at January 6th.

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We weren't in the Capitol. We condemned what happened there. I've got to always say that because when the

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FBI called me. You follow that up real fast. I know they follow us. And I'm like, you've got to look at our content. We condemned it.

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You clearly are a Christian nationalist because you were there at January 6th. January 6th, we wanted to be on the ground to provide some

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Christian media coverage as it was going on there. But, you know, I told you last week that I really, really struggled.

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I was like, I wanted to throw up in my mouth as to like the landscape.

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You had like, I think I remember some kind of juxtaposition of Donald Trump and Jesus on the cross.

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And it was gross, gross, gross. And it was all of this conflating of Jesus and Trump.

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And it was like. Sending the message that he is the savior of America. Yeah. And then there was other ones that was like, oh, it was like Trump being held like a baby in Jesus's arms kind of a thing.

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And it was just like, oh, this is so gross. And I defy anybody to demonstrate that as a faithful Christian position on this issue.

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And so, you know, I struggle with that. And I think we all should. That idolatrous nature and that Christless conservatism.

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Cult of personality. Yeah, cult of personality. Puts the salvation of America into the hands of like, it's in the hands of Donald Trump.

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No, it's in the hands of Jesus. And it's in the hands of his church in many ways. And the faithful proclamation, prophetic proclamation of his word.

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But, you know, I think we need to talk about like, where do we go from here? Whether Trump wins or loses.

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What do we do as Christians to actually do what Scripture tells us to do to see the world be transformed?

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I'm not saying, and I want this to be really clear. I'm not saying that between Biden and Trump, I don't want

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Trump to win. I want him to win. Because I think that it gives us a space.

27:32

What did you say a few minutes ago? Like a window? No, it was Isaacson. Room to work. It gives us room to work.

27:38

And I want the room to work. We're going into straight tyranny. And I want that space to work.

27:46

And I think we would get more of it with Trump. So between the two, yeah, I hope that is the case.

27:52

Like the invasion that's coming across the border right now. The price of goods and services across the board over the past four years, anyone?

27:59

The economy was much better. Yeah, I don't think Trump has a truly biblical worldview when it comes to the economy. I mean, like a capitalist idea of personal property and work and all that stuff.

28:08

Yeah, he's got the nuts and bolts of it. But not a truly biblical economic position. In terms of money being real money and taxes and what that would look like in a godly society.

28:18

To have taxes that were a godly form of taxation. I don't think he has that worldview. But I think we'd be a lot safer.

28:26

A heck of a lot safer. And so I'm all for it. So I'll announce that ahead of time. Between the two,

28:32

I certainly hope we get space and Trump wins. But let's play this clip.

28:37

This is from CNN. And this is a montage that shows sort of like this is the problem of a Christless conservatism.

28:43

It will waffle like this. And they see it too. These are the leftists. These are the pro -aborts. And they see it too.

28:49

Former President Trump's abortion stands front and center on the campaign trail. After he called Florida's six -week ban a quote terrible mistake.

28:57

Now Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is hitting back. Listen to this. Protecting unborn babies that have detectable heartbeats is not terrible.

29:07

It's noble. It's just. And it should be something that anyone says that they're pro -life would embrace.

29:14

I don't see how you could claim to have been at one time pro -life. And then turn around and say that it's terrible that a state would enact protections for life.

29:26

Just to jump in there at that point. I'm thankful that you have someone like Ron DeSantis saying that, you know, he's pro -life.

29:34

He's for life. And that he wants to protect human life. But the six -week thing. The six -week abortion ban is also unjust.

29:44

It is unjust. Because, look, if you tell the world, I believe that we should protect what's in the womb because it's human from fertilization.

29:52

That all humans should be protected. Not if it just has a heartbeat. Right. And then all of a sudden you move the goalpost and you say, no, actually what makes them valuable is having a heartbeat.

30:00

A working heart. I'm going to say, okay, well let's use that throughout life. Are people who have broken hearts or need heart transplants now no longer worthy of protection in life?

30:09

Have they lost some kind of human value and dignity because they have a problem with their heart? Is a working heart the measure of value for a human being?

30:17

And apparently in a six -week ban, it is. Also in a six -week ban, what you're actually doing is you're giving the abortion facility the certificate of whether or not they found a heartbeat.

30:30

And it's awfully easy to not find a heartbeat. Very easy. With an ultrasound and all that.

30:36

Yeah, it's just a little turn. And so, look, DeSantis, his position is inconsistent too.

30:42

It's completely inconsistent and it's unjust for us to say you can kill the kids with no measurable heartbeat, but you can't, sorry, you can kill the kids with no measurable heartbeat, but you can't kill the ones with a heartbeat.

30:54

That's also unjust. That's, according to scripture, partiality. That is unequal stones, unequal weights and measures.

31:01

God calls that an abomination. There's no way as a Christian to make that right. You can't say, well, let's just take what we can get and do things that are evil in God's eyes.

31:08

I'm sorry, on the last day, there is no rejoicing and no crown for anybody that says, I did evil so that we could accomplish good.

31:16

God says it's an abomination. We're not going to get away with it. However well -intentioned.

31:21

However well -intentioned. And so, DeSantis' position is also inconsistent. Need to say that because, look, we've got to be just and fair.

31:29

So let's take a look at this, because Trump's position on abortion has evolved over the last 25 years.

31:35

And that evolution is something his Republican rivals have been quick to attack. Take a look at how that position has changed over his decades in public life.

31:46

I'm very pro -choice. I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it.

31:53

I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject. But you still,

31:58

I just believe in choice. But I'm pro -life. You're pro -life, but you do think that there should be exceptions for rape and incest.

32:05

Yes, and life, you know, the health of the mother, the death. Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle?

32:12

The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. For the woman? Yeah, there has to be some form.

32:18

We got it back to the states. We did the Roe v. Wade thing, which they've been trying to get it done for 50 years.

32:24

I got it done. I believe in the three exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother.

32:30

I believe in that. Without the exceptions, it is very difficult to win elections.

32:38

And there you go. See, Christless conservatism is all about political expediency.

32:45

It's what will work for us. They tried that in Ohio. They tried that in Ohio. We had a legislator with a bill of equal protection to abolish abortion in Ohio.

32:54

It was going in. He was stopped by other pro -life legislators because they said to him, if we do this, it's going to instigate what they're trying to do with the ballot measure.

33:06

So they said, don't put the bill of equal protection in because that is just too far. It's going to agitate. It's going to instigate.

33:11

They're going to get their ballot measure if you try to do that. And guess what happened? He pulls the bill, and the ballot measure goes forward, and it passes.

33:19

Abortion essentially all the way up to birth in Ohio. So all your compromise and all your cowardice accomplished nothing.

33:25

You don't overcome evil with something just a little less evil.

33:31

You overcome evil with good. I think that's in the Bible somewhere. You overcome evil with good.

33:37

You overcome evil with the truth. You defeat error with the truth, not a partial truth, not a half truth, not an actual lie.

33:45

What good is it to get Republicans elected if they're not principled, strong Republicans that will stand on their values and actually against evil?

33:55

If the strategy is, well, we just need to get our team on the ballot, and we need to get them elected, and this is going to disrupt that process and that strategy, what good does it do if they don't actually do what they say they're going to do?

34:08

Yeah. Well, what we've learned since getting involved with things legislatively is, one, it's very hard to find someone that actually has a backbone and will stand on truth, and two, a lot of the times when these men get elected or women get elected that had a backbone prior, they either very quickly lose that backbone and wilt to the pressure, or we've seen men who have an incredible backbone get just beat up so badly that they're just like, they tap out like,

34:43

I can't do that again. Yeah, because it's hard. Yeah. But it's like, how do we know that standing on principle is going to lead to our losing?

34:52

I don't think we really do because no one's stepped up to the plate and proven that they can stand on principle.

34:58

You don't even know that it would fail. You're just assuming that if you don't compromise, you're going to lose. So you see, the standard for Trump there, and that was in Iowa, by the way, he just said that.

35:08

The standard for Trump there is, if it's not going to win us elections, we're not going to do it.

35:13

That's not principled. And one of the things I've admired about Trump in the past is where he takes a principled stand.

35:19

And he wins. Hey, lo and behold, it takes the courageous person who is not going to compromise, who is principled and says what needs to be said, to get the

35:29

American public to vote for you and support you. Why is everybody so rabidly committed to Trump? Because they like the fact that we finally had someone to be willing to just say what needs to be said and just confront stuff and say no.

35:40

As William Wallace said, men don't follow titles, they follow courage. That's right. Exactly right. And that's why everybody has just fallen in love with him in many respects.

35:49

That's my opinion. I think that's the case. Despite all of his many shortcomings, his soul -damning pride, his obsession with himself, all those things, notwithstanding.

35:59

Right, notwithstanding that. But so he says the standard there is that we can't win elections if we're consistent.

36:06

And so rape, incest, life of the mother, we need that to win elections. And so we would respond to that. So you don't really believe your presuppositions.

36:12

You don't really believe your principles. If you really believe it's human from fertilization, it is truly equal. It is truly a human being and it deserves to be protected.

36:20

Well, we don't normally in a punitive situation with a criminal, we don't normally punish the child for the sin and crime of the father.

36:32

We don't normally, when we have a victim situation, create a second victim. So like the woman's a victim, we have a perpetrator, there's guilt there, there's a crime there.

36:41

We don't usually say, let's go ahead and create a second victim to fix this situation. And so, of course, it's totally inconsistent.

36:50

We don't punish the children for the crimes of their father. And that is precisely what takes place in the case of abortion because of rape.

36:58

And look, let's bring out the trail of witnesses here of people who are the products of rape.

37:05

And they're alive today, and they're thankful to God they're alive today. And their mothers demonstrated amazing courage and love in the light of such horrific and abominable victimization.

37:17

That's what they demonstrated, is a love for their own child, recognizing that it is not the fault of the child.

37:24

So what we would say is, look, a consistent Christian position, a for -life position, is that we actually focus upon the justice issue with rape.

37:34

And that is we go after the rapist, we go after him, and we actually make sure that we establish real justice in that case.

37:43

And we protect the life and life, so the life of the mother and the child. Now when it comes to incest, this is the best way

37:51

I've ever been able to get this across. I grew up with people who were the products of incestuous relationships, and I don't think we should kill them.

38:00

They were honestly lovely, amazing people, and I don't think they should die for it. And so I don't want to do that either.

38:07

And when it comes to the life of the mother issue, the life of the mother issue has nothing to do with the preservation of human life with an equal protection bill or something like that.

38:17

If you truly are pro -life, you believe in the principle of preservation of life. That's the point of the pro -life position, right?

38:22

For -life is the principle of the preservation of human life, which means if a woman is truly in a situation where her life is in danger, the baby's life is in danger, they go to a hospital.

38:34

And the doctors, the staff there, are focused in upon the preservation of human life for both lives.

38:40

They're trying to preserve life in both cases. And unfortunately, in an infinitesimally small number of cases in the whole broad stream of abortions that take place, there are instances where the life of the mother is truly in danger.

38:55

And in that case, what you're talking about is a rescue operation. You are not at all talking about abortion at will with malice aforethought, taking of life in an unjustified manner.

39:04

You're talking about the preservation of human life. And so it's just all play. It's the pro -life people literally adopting the arguments and the narrative of the pro -choicers.

39:17

The pro -choicers go, rape incest life of the mother, that's why we need abortion. But really, that accounts for less than 2 % of all abortions.

39:24

98 % are at will because I wanna. And so now all of a sudden, the pro -lifers adopt the narrative of the pro -choicers, and the pro -choicers are like, thanks.

39:35

Thanks for taking my argument. Exactly why it needs to be legal. And we actually want the whole bag, but we're gonna use those emotional arguments.

39:41

So anyway, you see how Trump waffled. But isn't it amazing? That one portion, let's get back to that portion we see here.

39:51

This part right here got him in so much trouble. I remember when it happened. For abortion, yes or no, as a principle.

39:57

The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. For the woman? Yeah, there has to be some form.

40:05

When was that? 2016. Everyone saw it. You can see the wheels turning in that clip.

40:13

You see the wheels turning. So there must be some form of punishment, right? If you believe it's human life, it needs to be protected. He goes, there has to be some form of punishment.

40:20

He hadn't thought all the way through it, but he was like, well, wait a second, if I'm saying it's human life, it should be protected. Well, of course, you're not allowed to do it.

40:26

It must be some sort of a crime. It kind of shows that people that haven't been indoctrinated by the pro -life establishment, they're just thinking and bringing that thinking to the end.

40:35

And it's like, well, this is the natural consequence. Right, everybody? Aren't we supposed to be doing this, right?

40:40

I mean, that's, of course, what we did in this nation for so long, is we protected the life of the child like that against anybody that would take it.

40:47

Isn't murder illegal for everyone? Yeah, that's right. So what's Pierce say? He says murdering anyone should be illegal for everyone.

40:54

Right. Try to undo that. Haven't heard a better way to get that message across than that.

41:00

Murdering anyone should be illegal for everyone. And if you agree with that, then you're on our side. All right?

41:05

Yeah. Because that's what we're saying. Yeah, absolutely. I was just doing an interview this morning with a reporter, and they asked that question.

41:14

They said, well, let me ask you this challenging question. Why do you want to go after women so bad? And I said, none of our bills mention women.

41:23

There's no class. You're mentioning the women. Yeah, it's a myth, exactly. You did. I mentioned no gender and no class.

41:29

It just says what's in the womb is human fertilization, equal protection for all humans in the state of Alabama, or Louisiana, or Texas, or Arizona.

41:36

It's you that's bringing up a woman, which reveals something, is that you believe that women should be a protected class to kill their own child.

41:42

So, at any rate, that's one of the issues that I have right now. So when we talk about, like, what if Trump wins,

41:48

I have a problem with that. I have a real problem with that, because that does not represent the

41:54

Christian position. And as Christians, we should never accept something like that, and we can't give our favorites a pass when they're failing like this.

42:04

That's a complete failure. That's injustice right there. And can I –

42:09

I'm going to take a bathroom break in a second here, so I'll kick it over to you. All right. But one of the things that we were involved with early on is that we were putting bills in of equal protection, and we were saying in the bill you needed to ignore

42:22

Roe v. Wade, because Roe v. Wade wasn't the law of the land. It was a court opinion. Congress creates law in our nation, and not the

42:29

Supreme Court. So we were saying the states should have just flexed their sovereignty and done their duty as lesser magistrates, and they should have simply said to the

42:36

Supreme Court, you will not be permitted to tell us that people should be able to kill their children in our state.

42:42

No. We're going to tell you, like in Dred Scott, go pound sand. We reject your opinion. It's wicked. It's evil.

42:48

And the answer is no. You won't do it in our borders. We're protecting life. So we were saying that in our bills, but now that Roe v.

42:54

Wade is gone, we don't need to put that in our bills anymore. The state just needs to establish justice. So were we thankful that the

43:04

Dobbs case was happening? We weren't just thankful that it was happening. We actually paid to have an amicus brief put into that case with constitutional attorney

43:14

Bradley Pierce. If you haven't seen an amicus brief from Bradley Pierce, go look it up.

43:21

He argued in a Dobbs case consistently as a Christian attorney. He argued from the basis of the scriptures, and he argued on the basis of current constitutional law.

43:30

He did an excellent job, and so we're very proud of him, thankful to be a part of that. That's one of my favorite things about that, is you look at the table of contents, and it's like the list of your authorities, and number one is the

43:39

Holy Bible. The Holy Bible. Brad's amazing. That is not arguing as a

43:45

Christless conservative. That is arguing as a Christian attorney faithfully. So here's the thing.

43:52

Were we super grateful that Dobbs overturned Roe v. Wade? Yeah. Absolutely. Very, very thankful.

43:57

Were we in agreement with the decision that was made? Nope. Right. It was evil.

44:03

Washing their hands of it and saying, you deal with it. Cowardly. The Supreme Court justices,

44:08

I'm sorry there. I'm sorry. Are we thankful it's out of the way? Yes, but they are getting no crowns from Jesus on that one, because what they did is washed their hands of it, and they said, like Zach said, and what they said was to the states, you decide if you want to kill them.

44:20

That was a pilot move if there ever was one. Oh my goodness. Sounds eerily similar, doesn't it? Doesn't it?

44:26

So there's nothing praiseworthy for the Supreme Court justices in that, because that is not praiseworthy.

44:32

You decide if you want to kill the kids in your state. Have fun. No. Not going to praise them for that.

44:38

Not going to say that it was honorable or good, but are we thankful that God strikes straight blows with crooked sticks?

44:44

Yes. It's out of the way now, and I'm thankful that Trump had the stones to put in people who said that they were opposed to Roe versus Wade, so that it would hopefully get out of the way.

44:56

And so, yeah, we're glad that it's all out of the way. That did happen. We're glad that he did that, but is he going to save America?

45:04

No. And that's my fear. I fear so many evangelicals looking like, if we could just get Trump, we're going to finally save America.

45:10

No. Education. We've got to get our kids out of public education, government education. Where are they getting indoctrinated in this unbelieving worldview?

45:17

We've got to get them out of there. Christians need to take back over education. We have so much injustice in our nation that has to be overcome, and the conservative party is propagating that injustice.

45:28

They're doing it. Yeah, it's huge. We're not guiltless. They are just as corrupt in the

45:34

Republican Party. There's so much equal corruption as the Democratic Party.

45:39

The Republican Party is not the Christian party. If there's a guy who's a Christian whose faith was Republican, praise the Lord for him.

45:45

Great. Right on. But the Republican Party is just as filled with corruption and evil as the

45:50

Democratic Party. And if you don't believe me, go check out that audio that just dropped, that secret audio of Carrie Lake being bribed to not go for the

46:01

Senate. And whoo, some dirty, lowdown stuff going on there.

46:07

Just look it up. Carrie Lake, hidden audio. I'm surprised that that leaked or dropped like when it did. Man, oh man.

46:14

We know stuff going on that we're not even allowed to say. It's just as bad. Let's just say that we've been in some back rooms with some legislators, and you walk away and your stomach is hurting going, this is all a fraud.

46:26

It's all fake. It's all a fiction. You see your favorite even like, oh, this person, and you realize it's all just a show.

46:34

It's career. It's bluff and bluster. And so my point in bringing a love is not to make you feel bad and get you depressed because there's a lot to be sad about today.

46:43

It's to say that as Christians, we cannot say that our salvation is in the Republican Party or the

46:49

GOP. We cannot say our salvation is in Donald Trump. Our salvation is in Christ and Christ alone.

46:54

And I'm not just saying that as an epithet slogan. I mean sincerely, we've got to get back to that as Christians, is that we are actually proclaiming

47:00

God's word, God's authority, God's principles, God's way of his revelation of how this world works and how we're supposed to operate.

47:08

We've got to start bringing that into the public square. We need to be willing to confront even the conservative party and say, yeah, that Christless conservatism is getting you nowhere.

47:18

What's valuable about a whitewashed tomb? I want to know. Tell me the value of a whitewashed tomb.

47:25

I mean, it's still filled of stinking, rotting flesh inside. I mean, yeah, it's whitewashed.

47:32

It looks pretty. You know it stinks. And you know what's in there is death. And so if the conservative party is a

47:39

Christless conservatism, then it's a whitewashed tomb. It's still filled with death. It looks good on the outside.

47:44

Maybe it even has a Christian veneer where we say, God bless America. And we say things like, let's all pray to Jesus now.

47:53

It's Resurrection Sunday. It's a veneer, really. It's a veneer, yeah, exactly.

48:02

Jesus had a lot to say about mask wearers. The hypocrisy needs to be called down.

48:08

Look, our nation failed. I've said this often. And this is where I'll kick it over to you. And I think you guys will run fine with this while I'm being 45 and old and having to use the bathroom.

48:22

So our nation early on was in a bit of a conflict before the

48:27

Constitution. And that is that the colonies were set up in large measure by people who were descendants of the

48:36

Huguenots and the Covenanters. And these are like Puritan -esque, Puritan people.

48:43

It's largely reformed. And so there's like lax rex principles, the law is king,

48:48

Christ is king, and nation covenanted with God. So you saw that with like, you know, and there's like a list of things you could demonstrate that with, like, you know, the colonies, like invoking the name of Jesus Christ in treaties and covenants and naming the triune

49:03

God of the Holy Bible in this covenant they made with France or something like that. And so it was just assumed in an atmosphere.

49:08

But when they started to go towards the Constitution, one of the big debates was, look, if you don't name the God of the

49:14

Bible in your Constitution, you are going to lose the reference points. If you don't name Christ as king, if you don't have the nation come into covenant with Jesus Christ and the

49:23

God of the Bible, you're going to lose all of this. And so they sort of like did not do that.

49:29

Sort of like. They did not do that. And because of that, yeah, exactly right. What happens is not very long after, people like go, well, you know, created by what

49:38

God equally? And like, who exactly gave us these rights? Like which

49:44

God is it? Is it Brahma? Is it Allah? Is it, what is it?

49:50

We give praise to Buddha for this? And everyone goes, yeah, you can do that separation of church and state, which is not what that doctrine means.

49:59

And so you get in a situation now where people go, well, who actually is king over this nation? And who has the final word?

50:05

And nobody knows. Like in all the questions of morality, even in the conservative party, in their party, all the questions of morality, people are not going because God says.

50:17

And proof of that is even guys that I enjoy, I love. Guys like Matt Walsh. Matt Walsh does a great film, very entertaining.

50:25

What is a Woman? It's fun to watch. I loved watching it. I really enjoyed it. It's a great job of highlighting the problem for where we are as a culture.

50:34

What's the one? You guys are out of your mind. Fun's not the word I would use, but it was a good film. But it's the solution.

50:40

But the foundation and solution is not found in the words of God and Scripture.

50:46

And, you know, look, people are going to go, Of course, I understand Thomism and Thomas Aquinas and the natural law and all the rest.

50:54

Listen, let me just say two things to that. One, the only reason you know about natural law, that it's actually a thing before God, is because you found out about it in Holy Scripture, special revelation.

51:05

So you only know about natural law and general revelation because special revelation told you about it.

51:11

But also special revelation, the Scriptures, says that natural law isn't going to matter to the person suppressing it.

51:20

And so you can appeal to natural law all you want to a sinful community. They're going to say, I don't care.

51:27

You can say, look at your biology. You've got male parts. Look, you have a beard and you're wearing a g -string.

51:33

Like, that doesn't make sense. You can say all those things. And the person goes, I don't care.

51:40

It doesn't bother me because I feel like a woman. I feel like a woman on the inside. But your biology, creation is not shouting that to you.

51:47

It's shouting something entirely different. Your biology, let me show you your biology and your chromosomes and let me prove it to you.

51:52

And they go, I don't care what that says. I feel like a woman on the inside. And so natural revelation doesn't do ultimately the salvific good, apart from the

52:02

Spirit of God, because of the suppression of truth. So the point is, is the problem of the nation is sinful suppression of truth.

52:09

And you're not going to get around that by going to general revelation if the person's still fallen and they're going, yeah,

52:17

I know it says that. I don't care that it says that. So what you need is Spirit of God and the gospel to transform our nation.

52:25

That's my point, is that these people just will not appeal to God's word as the final authority.

52:31

And I'm looking for the person that will. And I personally believe that if we can have someone as bold and non -compromising at points as Trump, who is actually a

52:41

Christian, that said Christ is king, God's word is authoritative, and here's how he manages these things, I think that they might get the vote of the entire

52:49

Christian confessing community in this nation. I think we're waiting for that person. And they're like, well, you're not going to get that if you go that far.

52:55

If you act like that, that bold and that Christian, you're not going to get it. I don't know if I believe that.

53:01

I think actually Christians would finally go, finally, there's the guy. There's the guy that's going to operate with fidelity to the scriptures.

53:10

Yeah, not in the sense of even being a savior, but just being a solid candidate. Does this man do what he says he's going to do?

53:18

Yeah. Honesty, integrity, morality. Can I just get some integrity here? Yeah.

53:23

I think that's what a lot of people are hungry for. I wanted to ask you, bro, because we're talking about in this episode a lot like not being afraid to call out our own.

53:35

People on our side that supposedly represent our values and that are running on our platforms saying what appeals to our ears in order to get elected as well, which

53:46

Trump and the other politicians, they're going to do that. Oh, for sure. But historically, why, in your opinion, do you think it's been so hard to call out our own?

54:00

I think that we pick our favorite pundits, people that are talking heads in the conservative movement especially, and they say all the things that we want to hear.

54:10

But then they're so off, like so terribly bad in this area, and we won't hold them to any kind of consistency or accountability.

54:19

I know we've kind of experienced that with the Kirk thing and doing that. But why is it that our side seems so reluctant to hold accountable the people that we look up to and value?

54:36

That's a good question. A lot of it, I'm just thinking, it's almost like sports teams.

54:44

You have your guy, your team, and you'll just defend your team.

54:49

You're all in. I'm a fan. You're all in no matter what sort of a thing. That's not a biblical answer, but I'm just trying to think through that.

55:00

It's like pragmatism. Be very pragmatic. We think it's going to lead to the desired outcome or result we want, so we're willing to overlook these things.

55:10

Exactly. You want a biblical answer? Here it is. It's idolatry. Because we become what we worship.

55:18

I keep saying this. I've been saying it. What we're seeing especially with people that are

55:24

Team Trump, that are Christians, is they're willing to overlook the flaws and have

55:32

Scripture bow down to Trump because that's ultimately their idol. That's what they're worshiping.

55:40

I think from our perspective, we're saying, no, we're Christians first. Yeah, I'm going to support that guy, but if he missteps, if he says or does something that doesn't align with Scripture, I'm going to call him out on that because he's not what

55:52

I worship, or not who I worship. Christ is who I worship. His word is my objective standard.

55:58

I think Christians just fail to have that objective standard. Again, it falls back to their pragmatism.

56:05

They're like, well, but we need him to win so that we can do this, this, and this. If he is wrong in this area, that's not as important as this area, so I'm going to give him my support.

56:17

I think we're talking about here, too. Christians, thinking through these issues and trying to wade through their principles and understanding just because I'm supporting this guy in the sense of the alternative is so horribly awful that I dare not because I love my nation and I love the foundations it's built upon, and this choice will give me room to work, more room.

56:45

Conservatism is going towards the cliff slower, but at the same time, we want that.

56:52

As Christians think through this, I think what you said is so important because if we compromise our standard, if we don't have the ability to criticize the people on our side, then like you said, we run the risk of going the route of the

57:08

MAGA extreme where we're erecting these pieces of art depicting

57:13

Trump as the savior. Just because we believe that this might be the best choice politically doesn't mean we're not going to hold someone's feet to the fire in terms of what

57:26

God says about them. Yeah, you look at the left, the liberals, they're the ones being consistent because they have no objective standard of truth and morality.

57:37

How do you hold your legislators accountable when you have no objective standard of anything to begin with?

57:45

They're the ones that are actually being consistent and it's the Christians that are being inconsistent because we do have an objective standard of truth to stand on and we're not holding our legislators accountable to that standard.

57:56

And it shows the inconsistency of our position. We've said this a lot.

58:02

In our churches, when we're singing worship songs, we're acknowledging the sovereignty of God. We're acknowledging his total authority and his total power.

58:10

His word is final and it's authoritative in our lives. When we hear the word being proclaimed from the pulpit, we feel the same way.

58:17

This is God's word. This is ultimate. But we walk out of our church building and we act like that authority ended at the door because we get out into the world and we have this secular -sacred divide where we go, well, that's sacred, this is secular, and Jesus has no real authority here.

58:35

But look, we've said this, and you guys, if you've been listening to us for any length of time, you've heard us say this a million times.

58:40

Matthew 28, 18 through 20 says, all authority in heaven and on earth has been, past tense, given to me.

58:47

Has been given to me. All authority, not some, not limited. It's not, because he didn't just say, all authority in heaven's been given to me.

58:55

I think that most Christians in the West think that. As they go, well, that part's true. But the on earth part?

59:02

Like all authority here part? But that's the message of the Christian faith and that's also where we begin to talk about the gospel of the kingdom.

59:10

The very thing that Jesus was preaching when he came out of the wilderness, the gospel of the kingdom. We've forgotten or we don't even know what the gospel of the kingdom means as Christians in the

59:18

West. That Christ is really king, he has authority, he's gonna bring salvation to the ends of the earth. The knowledge of God covering the earth like the waters cover the sea.

59:26

He shall have dominion from sea to sea, from the river to the ends of the earth. To him shall be the obedience of the nations.

59:31

We don't even know what that means. We don't even know those verses are there. We need to get some hardcore pipe -hitting post -millennialism into us in this nation.

59:40

It is interesting too that the dominant eschatology early on in America was post -millennialism and it gave you

59:46

America. So if you love the beginning of America and the Revolutionary War, kiss a post -millennialist.

59:53

But we think, or maybe don't kiss, just give a hug. Well look, if our founders were two kingdom, our nation wouldn't exist.

01:00:01

Yeah, if they were like two kingdom like today, like these guys that are like Jesus, the break of authority.

01:00:08

But the point is this, look, we show our inconsistency as Christians when we abandon the authority of Christ into the walls of the church and we go out into the world and we say that they don't really have to hold to it.

01:00:17

That's not what Psalm 2 says. I mean, that's like God's word saying to the son,

01:00:22

I'll give you the nations for your inheritance, the ends of the earth for your possession. And then he warns the rulers of the world, be wise, kiss the son, obey the son, or you're going to perish.

01:00:33

We don't even have that kind of courage. God said it, so stand on it. God said that. We're courageous with the little things.

01:00:41

We're so courageous in the public square, in the marketplace of ideas to say, no, Jesus said, love your neighbor as you love yourself.

01:00:49

There's not a lot of threats to your life when you say that, right? Like, you know, if you go out to the public square, you go into the university campus and you stand there where the free speech portion is and you go there and you're like,

01:01:01

I want to tell everybody that God says, love your neighbor as you love yourself. That's demanded of all of us.

01:01:08

Everyone's going to walk by and go, yeah, that's great. I love that. That's sweet. I like that.

01:01:13

Who's going to disagree with that? I love you. Love your neighbors as you love yourself. We take that kind of authority in God's word and we say, that's binding on every single one of you guys.

01:01:21

Yeah. But we are so afraid to go into the world, especially to our legislature and say,

01:01:27

Christ is king, you must obey him. He's Lord of lords, king of kings. You must honor and obey the king.

01:01:34

He tells you that this is justice. He tells you that this is what's right. You must obey

01:01:39

Jesus. We're so afraid. And here's why we're afraid. Ready? Because consequences?

01:01:47

Consequences. That's what we're afraid of. But you know what? The world wasn't turned upside down in the

01:01:54

Roman Empire by a bunch of compromising Christians. It was turned upside down because Christians were willing to say

01:02:01

Jesus is Lord over against Caesar Curios. Caesar is

01:02:07

Lord. And make no mistake about it, that was the same dispute. And the emperor said,

01:02:13

I have final authority. I'm the ultimate here. I'm a god. There's temples to worship. Nero made a big deal over that.

01:02:20

And so there's temples to worship the emperor and all the rest. And so Caesar is Lord, which is what you must say in Rome. You can have any god you want, but just acknowledge his ultimacy.

01:02:28

And the early Christians were like, look, we're going to be good citizens here. We're going to be great citizens. But we can't say that you are ultimate.

01:02:34

Jesus actually is the king. Jesus is Lord. And for that, they were killed. So if you're like, is this really historic

01:02:40

Christian orthodoxy? We're really supposed to be like pressing the crown rights of Jesus Christ even into that sphere, the government sphere?

01:02:48

Why do you think the Christians were killed in the first century? That's why they were killed. Exactly right. That's why they were killed. By the way, when

01:02:55

Peter in Acts says, there's no other name under heaven given among men whereby you must be saved, did you know that he's literally quoting the common understanding of Caesar as savior of the world?

01:03:07

And did you know that Peter there was literally flipping that on its head? And where they were saying

01:03:13

Caesar, there's no salvation outside of Caesar, he turns it on its head and says there's no salvation outside of Jesus.

01:03:19

You must be saved by him, not Caesar. And so this whole thing of like, you shouldn't be involved in politics. You shouldn't get involved in that.

01:03:26

I'm like, tell that to Peter, who is literally going right at the guts of the

01:03:31

Roman Empire. Or when Paul tells Timothy there's only one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, another claim that would have directly flied in the face or flown in the face of Caesar as well.

01:03:42

That's right. The king Caesar is not the mediator between heaven and earth. That's the

01:03:47

God man, Jesus. That's right. You're not the God man. There is only one God man. That's right. There's only one man to bridge the gap between heaven and earth.

01:03:54

And you're not him. Yeah. And so the call is pray for those in authority to what end?

01:04:00

So that they leave us alone so that we can fulfill the great commission. Yeah. Like, give me a candidate.

01:04:05

Give me a person that will maximize my liberty as a Christian to fulfill the great commission.

01:04:11

Yeah. That's what I'm hoping for. Leave us alone to preach the gospel. Hey. Disciple. Notice that there's actually quite a few people in the stream today in the chat.

01:04:22

I'd love to hear your opinion as well on this discussion. We'd love to hear from you in the chat. Just related to the issue of Trump and how you feel about what's going on.

01:04:31

Just, yeah, leave us your comments. Maybe we'll do some interaction here on this. We're going to be doing a lot of this this year, by the way.

01:04:37

A lot of this. Because, look, we want to say, okay, look, this is a premier opportunity for us where everybody's talking about what matters, what is right for our country, morality, ethics, all the rest.

01:04:50

And they're doing it in the light of the election where it's a premier opportunity for us to engage these issues from a Christian worldview. So I want to engage the issue of the invasion coming across the border and illegal immigration.

01:05:00

I want to address that as a Christian with the law of God, with biblical principles. I want to address the issue of abortion that's going to come up with the law of God and biblical principles and the authority of Jesus Christ.

01:05:12

I want to address all these questions about war and our involvement in the war going on in Israel or the

01:05:20

Ukraine and all of that. I want to address that from a Christian perspective. And, look, you know, let's confess something.

01:05:27

Modern -day evangelicals in the West are, like, super ignorant of church history. Like, we are so ignorant.

01:05:32

It's like we're the first that got here. Like, what's James say? Like, church history began with Billy Graham. You know, that's kind of how we are in this nation.

01:05:40

Like, we don't reflect on the fact that, like, there have been some giants of the faith before us.

01:05:45

Not perfect men. They contradicted themselves, too. They made mistakes, too. But they developed a lot to bless the world.

01:05:52

Like, example, Augustine and just war theory. Like, the whole thing of, like, just war theory.

01:05:58

Like, when you hear about war crimes, do you understand that, like, thank a

01:06:04

Christian for that. Like, the Christian worldview, like, brought that wonderful thing to the world that there's such a thing as a war crime and how to define that.

01:06:13

And, you know, the whole thing of just war theory. Like, that's a gift from the Christian church. We are the ones that are supposed to be engaged in this because we have the worldview that can make sense of it.

01:06:22

So, this year, we want desperately to engage these issues as a Christian. And, look, we're doing this show, you know, not just to spin our wheels.

01:06:31

We hope that this blesses the church and blesses you, blesses your life, your understanding of God, your understanding of the gospel, your understanding of the word of God, the law of God, God's standards,

01:06:41

God's wisdom. And our hope is that as we engage this stuff as Christians, we start to get on our way as planting seeds that grow into big trees one day in terms of Christians being consistent.

01:06:55

And, look, I'll go back quickly to that discussion of early on in America, people having the debate over, like, you've got to name the

01:07:03

God of the Bible in your constitution. You've got to come into covenant with God. I think we need to get back to that. Yeah, it needs to be explicit.

01:07:10

The only way to, like, have people appealing to Jesus and God's word as the ultimate is, like, you actually say it.

01:07:18

And so part of me is, like, kind of sad about it. It's like, we have so long to go.

01:07:25

We have so much work to do. Because to be able to convince people, like, of Christ's ultimacy and, like,

01:07:31

He's the final standard and everyone should acknowledge that in government even as well, we've got a ways to go right now in the

01:07:37

West. And, of course, that's because we're in a place of just, like, rabid rebellion in this nation.

01:07:43

And we've got a long way to go. And the only way to overcome it is with the proclamation of the gospel. That's what we're suggesting, proclamation of the gospel.

01:07:50

I can say, because I can chew gum and walk at the same time, I'm thankful for the things—

01:07:55

It's impressive. I'm thankful for—thank you. I'm thankful for the stands that Trump has had that are consistent with the

01:08:02

Christian worldview and for the boldness, and at the same time condemn and confront the inconsistent anti -Christian positions that he holds or he promulgates.

01:08:12

And so I think we need to be willing to do that. If we're not willing to do that, if we're not willing to confront that, then I think that we're engaging in idolatry.

01:08:19

And that's not good. Absolutely. I know I saw we got some super chats here.

01:08:24

I think we're out of time. But I was going to say that, you know, you asked a question in the title, what if Trump wins?

01:08:32

What if he doesn't win? God's still sovereign and in control, and he gets all the glory, just like my shirt, which says,

01:08:39

Solely Day of Glory. There you go. Which can be found at shoutout .apologyistudios .com, part of the new

01:08:44

Five Souls collection. You can also get this pre -sipped coffee, which is awesome. Do it.

01:08:50

I like that. I was saying. The blend is smoother than that segue. I was saying, I was like, it must be nice to have a shirt like that, because Luke has this nice shirt from Apology of Studios.

01:09:00

No one's, you know, thought to give Jeff one of those shirts. Luke had to buy it. That's the problem with,

01:09:07

I love our setup, because we do the auto -ships now. So we never have the shirts on hand. You just got to go order them.

01:09:14

But yeah. Also, as a reminder, if you're homeschooling, please go to HeritageDefense .org

01:09:20

and register your family, especially the way things are going. You need that protection.

01:09:25

You can get your first month free with the coupon code Apologia. Yes. And so let's go through.

01:09:32

How do you say your name? Is it Mawson? Mawson Hollowell? That's a cool name. What is the distinction between Acts 1631 and Acts 238?

01:09:40

Why does Peter say be baptized? Okay. So what you see in Acts consistently through the

01:09:46

Apostle Peter, you can see him, just go look up all the times that you see Peter preaching in the book of Acts.

01:09:52

You're going to see the proclamation is repentance and faith. You're going to see the proclamation is faith and for salvation.

01:09:59

And of course, in Acts chapter 2, every Christian is called to get baptized. Acts 2, there is the call to have faith in Jesus, be baptized.

01:10:07

And it's because of the salvation of sins. And so that's what I would say there. And again, you're going to have a hard time if you're trying to teach baptismal regeneration or baptism for salvation using

01:10:19

Peter in the book of Acts. You're going to have a heck of a time with it because at other places, like you pointed out, Peter just says faith in Jesus to be saved.

01:10:27

And in Acts chapter 10, when the gospel goes to the Gentiles, they hear the gospel, they receive the gospel, they receive the

01:10:35

Holy Spirit before they enter the water. And so they've received the Holy Spirit. Therefore, they are saved people before they ever even got into the water.

01:10:43

And that's when Acts, when the gospel is brought to the Gentiles in the book of Acts. Read Acts chapter 10.

01:10:48

No, that does not in any way teach baptismal generation or salvation through baptism.

01:10:54

Christians get baptized and they get baptized because of the forgiveness of sins. Andy P., long time no see.

01:11:00

What if Trump wins is the hot topic right now. I won't vote for him with his awful poor life position. I'll write in Denver's or something.

01:11:05

I think he meant Deaver's. Oh, Denver's. Yeah, Deaver's. He probably did. Yeah, Dusty Deaver's.

01:11:12

Let's see here. Hyperborean. That's quite a name. Interested in the opinion of Trump pledging to never help

01:11:20

Europe in case of war and leaving NATO. Roll that up there, Gabe.

01:11:26

A little higher. I can't see. There's a camera in the way. I can't read the next word. Oh, there's nothing left.

01:11:32

Especially leaving the door open for Russia to roam free. Well, I would say this is probably a better help for you than a quick answer from me here.

01:11:39

This will really, really bless you. I hope you're still on right now because I want everyone to listen to this. Go look up Douglas Wilson, Just War Theory.

01:11:49

Go look up Douglas Wilson, Just War Theory, right here on YouTube after the show, and get blessed, big time.

01:11:57

Get blessed. It was going to bless your life. If there's an historical sort of survey there, a theological one, then he answers some particulars in terms of questions and challenges.

01:12:08

But I can't do better than Doug in a quick response. Just War Theory, Douglas Wilson.

01:12:14

Go and listen to that to get sort of a handling on what do the scriptures say about Just War Theory, Christian faith, our history, how did that develop over time, and that's really going to bless you a lot.

01:12:27

That's a new shirt design, by the way. What's that? Get blessed. Get blessed. And before we go, everyone, before you take off, really important thing happening right now.

01:12:37

We're going to bring Gabe on in a second, his father we are praying for. Gabe's dad was one of the people who was arrested for the

01:12:47

FACE Act. He's one of the people that's – it's been all over the news. You've probably heard about it.

01:12:54

People who were doing rescues, they were blocking at the abortion mill. They were arrested, and now they are facing many, many years in jail as a result of the

01:13:02

FACE Act. Now, I want to start this conversation by saying when we started End Abortion Now, and we really went out with churches to say, hey, here's how you can save lives at the abortion mill, we do disagree with the effectiveness and the methodology of the rescue stuff in terms of blocking the abortion mill door.

01:13:21

We just say, look, it's actually been demonstrated to be ineffective. They just bring them through the back. It's going to take you off the mission field.

01:13:28

It can actually put you in a situation like this where you could actually endanger your ability to continue to be a missionary because you could be arrested, spend time in jail, and you're losing your time outside the abortion mill.

01:13:37

We've always said we think you can continue to save babies without getting arrested, at least right now.

01:13:43

And so I want to say that is our position, that has been our position. However, however, we – our hearts break for our brothers and sisters who did this and sacrificed their lives for the sake of these children and are now facing a wicked and tyrannical justice system that is going to employ such injustice in their case for simply trying to save human lives.

01:14:07

So while we would say we disagree with the methodology, we love and respect our brothers and sisters who laid down their lives, because we know where it came from.

01:14:14

They are passionate about Christ. They are passionate about the Word of God, and they're passionate about these children's lives, and they gave up their lives for the sake of these children.

01:14:22

So we can disagree on these areas in terms of methodology and still say we're praying for them. What's happening right now to them is unjust.

01:14:30

And so, Gabe, can you come on in and tell everybody what's going on with your dad today in Nashville? Yes. So the trial began on Tuesday with jury selection and all that, and it is – so it's just started.

01:14:46

I think they're just doing opening arguments and all. It's currently for six of the 11 people that were charged.

01:14:53

Am I loud enough for you guys? Yeah, I can hear you. You're good. Sweet. Yeah, so I think you said it's expected to go about two weeks?

01:15:02

Two weeks. So they're in opening arguments right now. We need to be in prayer for your dad.

01:15:07

Tell everyone your dad's name. Dennis Green. Dennis Green. And who are the others? Do you have a list there?

01:15:13

Yeah. So there's Chet Gallagher, Coleman Boyd, Heather Idone, Kals Astro, and Paul Vaughn.

01:15:22

I know most of them. We do. So everyone, be in prayer for Gabe's dad and for those who are facing now this injustice.

01:15:32

We're, of course, in prayer that we can undo this injustice at some point in the future and how they're trying to do the

01:15:40

FACE Act and all that and how they try to punish on the basis of it. Again, we can disagree on methodology and still at the same time say this is an injustice and pray for God's mercy and grace over Gabe's dad and all the people involved in Gabe's family, of course.

01:15:57

Gabe, how many brothers and sisters do you have? There are 13 of us. 13 kids.

01:16:03

Wow. Please pray for Gabe's dad. And let's just pray that mercy and grace will be given by the court and we'd be able to put this behind us.

01:16:14

And thank you guys all so much for watching today. We're grateful for each and every one of you guys. Please go to apologiastudios .com

01:16:21

and sign up. Guess what? When you are all accessed, you get access to all the additional content we want to bless you with.

01:16:27

I have about six or seven messages completed for the Academy on the Great Tribulation.

01:16:34

It's an end -time study on the Great Tribulation and we think it's going to be a big blessing for you guys.

01:16:39

We're going to drop this very soon, but we also have more coming that we're planning on that's going to blow your mind.

01:16:45

I'm so excited about one of these in particular, but you get access to all that and Apology Academy at apologyallaccess, apologiastudios .com.

01:16:53

And I want to put this out there. You guys have heard me say this a lot. We need help. We need your financial help for End Abortion Now.

01:17:02

We have 21 states right now that we're working in and working with others in for bills of equal protection.

01:17:08

That is a lot for a church like us. We have a very small team. It would shock you if you knew the size of our team and what

01:17:15

God does and what He accomplishes through the size of our team. Our budget, you've heard me say this, is like pennies on the dollar compared to the pro -life establishment and they're not getting bills of abolition and equal protection.

01:17:27

They don't want them. And it's coming from the church. It's coming from Christians, pastors, Christian organizations, abolitionist societies across this nation.

01:17:34

And so we need your help. We need financial support to go and do this. And so please go to endabortionnow .com

01:17:41

to give financially so we can meet our goals, so we can accomplish everything we need to accomplish this year and continue to train and equip churches to do what we're doing to save lives because they're still being taken today.

01:17:52

Oh, by the way, I don't even know if we really mentioned it before. Before you guys all go, I wanted to let you know related to that one ministry of Apologia Church, we've been able to bring this ministry into Northern Ireland, the

01:18:04

Republic of Ireland. We were able to at least bring it to Scotland. I don't know much that's being done there right now with respect to Scotland.

01:18:11

But just this last year, we were able to actually raise up churches and meet with churches in Germany because the church is not fighting against that issue in Germany with the gospel consistently.

01:18:23

And so we met with the churches in Germany that are prepared to do it. We offered them equipping and training and we tried to challenge them.

01:18:30

And so that work now is being done in Germany as well. It's on its way. And all that has taken place.

01:18:38

Every church that's out saving lives right now, every church that's involved, all these bills that we're involved in,

01:18:43

Germany, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, all of it's taken place, not for us, not because of us, but because of a joint collective effort of the

01:18:53

Christian church. You've given financially to this. You've prayed for this. Many of you guys are signed up with your church and you go out and save lives.

01:19:01

This is the work of the church and this is what God has done through the faithfulness of his church. So all that's taking place because of what

01:19:08

God has done. But thank you, I wanted to thank you. If you've given financially, you made all that possible.

01:19:13

So like it being in Germany now and all these different states across the nation and all that stuff, that's because of your faithful giving.

01:19:20

So whether you gave $10 ,000 or $5, thank you, thank you.

01:19:26

Please give at endabortionnow .com. That is Luke the Bear.

01:19:31

Peace out. I'm Jeff. They call me the Ninja. And that over there is Zachary Conover.