April 21, 2021 Show with Jonathan Hill on “The Abolish Abortion Rally at the South Carolina State House”

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 21st day of April 2021, and I am thrilled to have on the program for the very first time ever on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, South Carolina State Representative Jonathan Hill, and today we are going to be addressing the

Abolish Abortion Rally at the South Carolina State House, which is being held next week, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jonathan Hill.

Thank you, Chris, for having me. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to have you on, and let me give our listeners our email address right away in the event that they would like to join us with questions of their own.

Our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you have had an abortion, or your daughter has had an abortion, or some close family member or friend has had an abortion.

Whatever the case may be that would compel you to remain anonymous, we would understand over personal and private matters, but if it's just a general question about this horrible sin that continues to stain the

United States of America, and actually the world, infanticide, if it's just a general question about that or a political question, please give us at least your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

Well, first of all, Jonathan, how long have you been an

South Carolina State Representative? Yeah, well, I've been involved in politics since 2008 as an activist, and in 2014

I ran for State House here and won, so this is my seventh year in office now.

Tell us exactly what the duties and responsibilities of being a

State Representative are, a general description of your day -to -day activities and the most important functions that are part of your role there.

Right, right. Well, the South Carolina House of Representatives, as it is the case with most states, is one half of the legislature, and the legislature's role is to make the laws of South Carolina, and along with that, there are, you know, duties involving, you know, fielding a random array of constituent requests and needs.

Sometimes we have people come to us with various things, not knowing where to turn, so it's our job to help them sometimes navigate, you know, the process of dealing with a state agency and so forth, so there's a bunch of random stuff like that, but my number one job as a state legislator is to read the bills that come up, to file just legislation, to cast votes according to justice and righteousness, and I strive to do that to the best of my ability.

Well, since you are a born -again believer in Jesus Christ, a

Bible -believing Christian, we have a tradition here on this program, when we have a first -time guest, that they give a summary of their salvation testimony, including the kind of religious atmosphere, if any, that you were raised in, and what kind of providential circumstances our

Sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to Himself and ultimately saved you.

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question, Chris. I appreciate your giving me the opportunity to talk about this. I came to know the

Lord at the tender age of five. It wasn't until pretty much so long ago that I don't have any vivid memories of that left, but it was very real, very distinct, and I was baptized by my late father, who was the

Southern Baptist minister and was the oldest of six kids, and we were all home -educated.

My dad was a pastor for about 15 years, and so I certainly grew up in that environment and saw firsthand what he went through.

I can say that life has at times been difficult, and we all have our challenges and everything.

I can say that as I look back over the years that I've lived,

I've never once doubted who I belong to. I'm not really joking when

I say, when God says, whom I love, I rebuke and chasten, He meant it.

Ha! Yeah, I know the feeling. And I've had plenty of rebuking and chastening by the

Lord, so there's no doubt in my mind.

It's something that has, as I've gotten more and more involved in politics, that it's become more and more front and center as the driving force of what

I'm doing. I mean, when I first got involved in politics, which, by the way, I credit my parents with.

It wasn't something that I wanted to do. It wasn't something that I was naturally drawn towards, but they raised all of us kids with the sort of mentality of personal responsibility.

If there's something that bothers you and your soul about what's going on in the world, then that's your first cue to actually consider whether you should be doing something about it.

You don't get to complain. You get to go figure out what you're going to do about it. So that was the mentality that we were raised with.

And so when I began to realize just how few people are involved in politics and the opportunities that are there for Christians to be an influence and to glorify

God in that arena, I just got to a point where I knew too much not to be trying to do something about it.

So I got involved in the heyday of the Tea Party movement around 2008 -2009 is when I got my start as a grassroots activist.

I had to shift. The battle cry then was, we're going to change it back.

We're going to save America. Of course, those were the first few years of the

Obama administration, the Obamacare fight and all of that. I had to come to grips with the fact that a

Christian's role in politics isn't to change it back. A Christian's role in politics is nothing short of the first and second great commandments, which is to love the

Lord your God with all your heart and to glorify him. I believe God is glorified when our laws are just.

And second, to love our neighbor. When our neighbor is being harmed by what our elected officials are doing to us, then it is our duty as Christians, I believe, to get involved and to try to do something about that for their sake.

So that's been the two -fold mandate. I can't make any promise or assume that I can, say for instance, get a bill passed, but I certainly can by my efforts glorify

God. That is something that come what may I can do if I am faithful to doing what

God would have us do. That's kind of been my driving force, especially over the last seven years as I've served in the

State House of Representatives. Well it is always a joy to hear of someone that is truly a legitimate, regenerate, born again

Bible -believing Christian in political office. Obviously there are many, if not multitudes, who are no doubt giving a false profession, even some that are very conservative in many areas of their platforms and so on, but then eventually they wind up saying and doing things that reveal that they really don't know the

Scriptures and it is doubtful that they know God. But it is such a refreshing blessing to hear about someone like you, who has been a

State Representative for so many years, and your reputation of being a State Representative. You know,

Chris, Jesus said, you'll know them by their fruits. There are a lot of people in politics out there, a lot of politicians especially, that will say that they're a

Christian or even that God told them to run for office. But Jesus said, you'll know them by their fruits.

You'll know by what they do, by what they say, and whether they have any kind of conflict of conscience about what they do and say, you'll know by that, whether it is a real deal or not.

Amen. And I have the privilege of knowing and having had the privilege to interview a former

Pennsylvania State Representative, Stephen Bloom, who is certainly and unquestionably a very strong and truly regenerate

Bible -believing brother in Christ. And I'm saddened that he is no longer a

State Representative, but I'm sure that the Lord has a lot of amazing things in store for his future, due to his own gifts and zeal and passion for the

Word of God and for truth. Yeah, that sounds like somebody I'd love to meet sometime. Yeah. Well, we have a listener,

Ian, in Swansea, South Carolina. Hi, Mr. Arnzen. Thank you, as always, for your ministry.

Could Representative Hill please address the issue of fake pro -life -ism in both conservative politics and in the mainstream pro -life movement?

Yes, I've been hearing more and more from those that are zealously and diligently involved in grassroots ministries to save the lives of unborn children, that not everyone who wears a title of a pro -life

Christian or conservative or says that they are passionately involved in the pro -life movement is actually laboring in a methodology or with a methodology that is actually going to bring about the abolishing of infanticide

I'm not saying that this is a conscious thing with many of them, but perhaps most of them it is an unconscious thing.

But if you could tell us about your understanding of this, as Ian called it, fake pro -life -ism.

Right. Yeah, well, it's a great question. And, you know, we have the lay of the land here in South Carolina is that the main pro -life lobby group would be

South Carolinians for Life. And that's the group that has the reputation around the state, especially among the

Republican politicians in the House and Senate. They're the ones that are,

I guess, kind of the standard bearers of protecting life. Now, the problem there is, in spite of the fact that they publish annually to the public and especially to their donors, a 15 or 20 year chart showing how the rate of abortions have changed in South Carolina over the years.

And they'll overlay that with certain bills that they've advocated for. And each one of those bills are bills that, you know, really didn't do a whole lot to move the needle.

And the problem is, historically, we've just been content with messing around the margins of the issue.

The very first pro -life related bill fight that I experienced coming into the

State House was, I believe it was in 2015. And the issue was the bill to say that you can't have an abortion after 20 weeks.

And right off the bat, I pretty much knew that this wasn't a good faith effort to end abortion in South Carolina, first and foremost, because it's not wrong to kill babies, but because it might hurt, it's wrong to kill babies because they're human.

And so to say that we're only going to ban abortions after 20 weeks, you're on the wrong ideological footing altogether, just right off the bat.

Second, I began to realize that, you know, as we started asking questions and collecting data, that there were no abortions happening in South Carolina after 20 weeks.

And so the bill was passed as a symbolic measure that did not save one life in South Carolina, did not change anything.

But what it did do is it gave a bunch of Republican legislators and other politicians the ability to go out and say, look, we passed this bill, we're pro -life, here's my voting record.

And, you know, the people of South Carolina are not supposed to notice the fact that nothing actually changed.

And that's been a recurring theme over the past seven years, and it kind of culminated in this last year, or in this year rather, with the passage of the so -called

Heartbeat Bill. And the Heartbeat Bill is interesting because, you know, when you talk about it, and especially when you read the media coverage of these bills as they've been introduced and passed in various states around the country, the talking point is they ban practically all abortions.

And most people think that the Heartbeat Bill bans abortion at the point of a heartbeat.

If there's a beating heart, it shouldn't be killed from this person, and it's alive, clearly alive.

And once again, you know, it's ideologically problematic. We know better than that.

We know that it's a person, even before the heartbeat begins, it's a person from the point of conception onward, and we should protect those lives, too.

But it would be a true statement to say that if we're going to ban abortions once the heartbeat starts, that it would ban practically all abortions.

We're talking about five weeks. Sometimes the mother may not even know that she's pregnant at that point.

And so it's very early. However, the problem here is, once again, that is not what the

Heartbeat Bill does. The bill that was passed and signed by the governor here in South Carolina, if you read it carefully, what it actually does is it bans abortion when a heartbeat is detected.

Key fundamental difference there. We're not banning abortion when a heartbeat begins.

We're banning it when it's detected. And so what do you think, Chris, that a

Planned Parenthood abortion tech is going to do? Their livelihood depends on enabling and allowing that abortion to go forward.

Their paycheck is paid from funds that come from abortion. And if they place that ultrasound on that mother's body in such a way to record accurately the image of the ultrasound and the heartbeat, the presence of the heartbeat, then their employer is not going to be able to pay them.

And they're not going to pay them. So it's not like Planned Parenthood is a trustworthy actor.

They're a known bad actor. We know they're going to cheat. And there's nothing in the bill that's going to stop them.

Nobody's going to be there looking over their shoulder. Nobody from the government. And so they're going to cheat. We know they're going to cheat.

And then on top of that, we could say that we're taking a stand for life by passing such a bill.

We could say that. But the problem is what the Senate and the House ultimately did was they carved out exceptions for rape and incest.

So not only are we on the wrong ideological footing by not actually protecting babies with beating hearts, but now we've carved out exceptions into the bill that say we don't even deem all babies with beating hearts to be worthy of equal protection.

And Chris, I don't know about you, but I can't escape the fact that that displaces us right alongside, you know, many people throughout history that have advocated for eugenics and horrible, egregious, and often racially motivated human rights violations.

And that is the total exact opposite of the pro -life position.

So if we're truly pro -life, if we're truly about protecting the unborn, it has to begin from the position that we believe that a person is a person, and that's true from conception, and that a person, an innocent human being, no matter their age, no matter whether they have a beating heart, no matter the circumstances of their conception, no matter what, that they are worthy of a chance to live.

And it's wrong for us to take that human life. And it's high time we start calling it what it is, which is murder.

Amen. And it would be totally hypocritical and illogical if those who believe in abortion, or should

I say the murder of an unborn child, due to rape and incest, if they are going to be logically consistent in believing that that is indeed human life, that it is indeed a child, then they would have to believe that it would be acceptable for a young mother who gives birth to a baby after being raped or being the victim of incest to throw that baby in a dumpster, or to have a child that's even more developed and older murdered, because it is still a human being in both scenarios.

Even so -called pro -life people often distinguish and contrast life before birth and life after birth.

And this is really illegitimate, isn't it? That's right. And during the heartbeat debate when these rape and incest exceptions were being discussed and quite honestly promoted, and that was the thing that was so flabbergasting to me, is that the

South Carolina Republican Party, the SCGOP, and SC Citizens for Life both were openly and vocally advocating that the

House pass the bill as is with no further amendment. In other words, they were actively pushing these rape and incest exceptions.

They were evidently perfectly okay with it. And I can't for the life of me see how you would call yourself a person who is pro -life while saying at the same time that some life doesn't deserve protection.

And I've raised the question, and not one person even attempted to answer from the pro -life establishment.

And the question I raised was this. If the exception had been carved out to say instead that it is illegal to have an abortion and abortion done when a heartbeat is detected, unless the baby has

Down Syndrome, and then you can do it, would you be still promoting this bill?

Would you still be telling me to vote for this bill without trying to change it, without trying to amend it?

Not one person from the pro -life establishment, from SCCL, or the SCGOP, or any other group would answer that question.

Wow. And I thought that that was a theoretical question, but now I'm starting to see that actually there are some states that are actually proposing bans on abortion once they find out that the baby has

Down Syndrome. So, you know, I think that whether the baby actually has

Down Syndrome or any other situation is quite honestly irrelevant.

The only relevant detail is that they're alive and that they're human. Amen. We have to go to our first station break right now, and if you would like to also join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address again is chrisarnson at gmail dot com, chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

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Jonathan Hill. He is South Carolina State Representative, and we are addressing the Abolish Abortion rally at the

South Carolina State House. And tell us exactly all the details our listeners need to know about this rally.

Yeah, so first of all, if you're interested in coming, go to abolishabortionsc .com.

Abolishabortionsc .com. All the details are on there and links to RSVP on Facebook.

And there's an alternate link if you're not on Facebook. But we're going to be meeting up at the

South Carolina Capitol at the State House at the public entrance on May 4th at 10 a .m.

And, you know, that's a strategic date. We've chosen that date because that's the date that we believe that the

House will be, once again, the State House will once again be taking up the state budget.

And it's a budget that was initially passed by the House with abortion funding included in it.

So we're funding abortions and we are funding abortion providers such as Planned Parenthood in that budget.

And so that will be the House's chance to make that vote right. I'll be proposing an amendment to remove the abortion funding.

And it's an amendment that the Governor has repeatedly called on the

House and the Senate to pass. And they have not done so. So we're hoping that, you know, we'll have lots of people show up for a rally on May 4th that can then go into the

State House and speak with their legislators, speak with their House members, my colleague, to let them know that passing a budget that funds abortion and funds abortion providers is unacceptable.

And while they're there, we'd like them to also have a conversation with their rep about co -sponsoring

House Bill 4046, which is a bill to, for the first time, actually completely abolish legal abortion and to establish equal justice for the unborn.

And we will repeat that information later on in the program. And we hope that you have a wonderful turnout.

We have a listener, and he's already going to start some trouble here.

He is a faithful listener and generous financial supporter of Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina.

And Grady asks something that probably no politician really wants to hear.

But he says, Greetings, brothers. It's my understanding that some pro -life groups have signed agreements with some of the

Roman Catholic pro -lifers not to share the Gospel. I personally believe this is necessary because a change of heart, redemption through Christ, is the only way to change a person's heart.

However, saying that, we, the Church, must also be willing to aid those that decide on motherhood and fatherhood as Christians, willing to fulfill the

Great Commission and to encourage and provide, even materially, as they grow in the grace and knowledge of our

Lord Jesus Christ. Do you agree with this? Now, that's kind of a tricky question. Do you agree with this?

Well, you've mentioned a lot of things, Grady. Obviously, this is a

First Amendment issue of the Constitution, of the fact that we have freedom of speech still in this country.

At least now we do. But if you could, respond.

Yeah, yeah. There's a few things going on with this question, and I'm happy to address it as best

I can. And I want to thank Grady for that question, because I mentioned earlier that there's been a lot of games being played, and the lives of the unborn hanging in the balance have been used for far too long in South Carolina as sort of a political pawn or a political bargaining chip or something like that to help

Republican politicians go back into office who actually have no interest in protecting the lives of the unborn or changing the status quo on abortion.

Now, you know, I mentioned that whole political fight, legislative fight over the

Harvey Bill and the rape and incest exceptions, and I remember distinctly, you know, I was getting ready,

I was getting in my car, driving to the Capitol that very morning when we were going to vote for the bill, and my soul was just heavy, heavy with knowing the blatant hypocrisy that was being perpetrated by my party caucus and so many of my colleagues.

And it just dawned on me that morning, just dawned on me, Chris, that, you know, they think they're doing nothing wrong.

There's a few of them that know that what they're doing is wrong and they don't care. But for the most part, many of them really just do not realize that they're doing nothing wrong or that they're doing something wrong.

And it furthermore occurred to me that what is the very first prerequisite for the gospel to have any meaning whatsoever?

The very first prerequisite is that we have to acknowledge that we've done wrong. David, I think it was

David, wrote in the Psalms, he's not rewarded us according to our iniquities. He's not, you know, at mercy only makes sense in the context of a just law, which we have violated.

And I think that, you know, all of this starts with us, we have to point out the hypocrisy, we have to point out the error.

That, of course, means that we have to confront in our own hearts and minds and souls first. And I can, you know, this whole situation, you know, going through this this year has really forced me to do a lot of soul searching myself and to identify wrong thinking, wrong decisions that I've made in the past, and to, you know, make the choice to really go to the heart of the issue here that abortion is wrong, not because it hurts women, it does, but not because it hurts women.

Abortion is wrong because it is wrong to take the innocent life of another person.

And there are huge theological ramifications that abortion has that I don't really hear any pastors or Christians really even talking much about that really should be part of the conversation for Christians, and it should be part of our motivation for addressing this issue.

So, you know, as far as, like, you know, the aspect of ecumenicalism and, you know,

Roman Catholics kind of leading the way on this, and, you know, what role has that played in the failures of the pro -life movement to provide equal justice or advocate for equal justice for the unborn?

And that's not a topic that I'm necessarily well -informed and educated enough to really address directly.

I can tell you that I have, for many years, been ashamed that many

Protestant churchgoers, you know, may give lip service to protecting life and life beginning at conception and so forth, while the people actually in the trenches that are trying to actually save babies and convince mothers not to kill their unborn children and, you know, engaging in the political sphere have been predominantly

Roman Catholics. And I think that that's to our shame, and I think that anyone listening to me here who is a

Protestant Christian, I beg you to, you know, consider whether you're fulfilling the mandate of Micah 6 .8.

It's not the lip service, it's not the trappings of our worship that God wants. He wants us to do justice, to order our laws by his righteousness, to love mercy, which, you know, means putting the gospel front and center in everything that we do, and to walk humbly with God and realize that this isn't all on our shoulders and that, you know, as Jesus said, him who is without sin be the first to cast the stone.

And so, you know, that needs to be the framework that we engage in this and any other issue, and those are the guiding principles that I'm seeking to follow here.

Yeah, and the way I would also respond to that is a lot of this depends on how the

Roman Catholics who are involved in a particular pro -life demonstration are making certain aberrant beliefs of theirs vocal or prominent in the demonstration, and likewise how the

Protestants are evangelizing them. I think that if you have a certain mission to accomplish a certain goal, you don't need to be confronting the

Roman Catholics involved, or anyone else involved for that matter, whether they be Orthodox Jews, they might even be atheists who are pro -life, and I'm using that term in the sense of being committed to rescue the lives of human beings, in this case unborn children or even children born right after or during an abortion who are being allowed to die in storage closets and so on.

But obviously I think it would be inappropriate for evangelicals to be holding up signs during a specific gathering intended to be an anti -abortion or abolish abortion event, holding up signs that say, stop praying the rosary, or stop praying to Mary and saints, stop your idolatry.

Yeah, that would distract from the main issue, your reason for being there. Right, but to develop relationships and friendships.

And the next message as well. Yeah, but to develop friendships and relationships with the Catholics that you're having this co -belligerent activity with, and share the gospel with them during those times of interaction when you're involved in private socializing and so on, that would be different.

I know that a very dear friend of mine, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, many years ago,

I think it was back in the 80s, he was very actively involved in a certain pro -life organization, and he voluntarily disassociated himself with it because they actually told him that he could never be a member in good standing of this group if he were to evangelize the

Roman Catholics involved. And obviously that would be not only a violation of freedom of speech, but it would be, even more importantly, fearing men more than God.

Right. And also inflating what is a very serious crime and sinister act, the murder of unborn babies, but it would be inflating it above and beyond the eternal matters involving the gospel, which is not appropriate either.

Right. And I think the arguments for the humanity of the unborn, and as Justice Blackmun wrote in the

Roe v. Wade decision, he says, if the fetus is a person, may the penalties for killing it be different than those for killing a person who is born.

And I think that all of those arguments are equally compelling,

I would think, to any person who has a brain and a soul, quite honestly.

Now, my personal efforts here in South Carolina to end funding of abortion and abortion providers and to ban abortion itself in South Carolina, those efforts are, and I am a

Protestant Christian, and those efforts are being led by Protestant Christians, and I'm not going to be reaching out to or trying to build a leadership team on this issue that moves outside of Protestant Christians, because I do believe that judgment must begin in the house of God, and it is, quite honestly, the

Protestant circles that I have run in that have, quite honestly, just been content to check off the box and do the bare minimum, if that.

So we've got to do more. I think that if it doesn't start with the

Church, if the Church isn't willing to step up, if the Church isn't willing to cleanse our hands and purify our hearts from being double -minded, as James said, then

I don't know who will. It has to start with us. Now, that said, if Catholics want to work alongside or if they want to come to the rally, or atheists or Mormons or anyone that believes that a person, an unborn human child is a person that deserves equal justice, they are welcome.

I don't care who you are. I will work alongside of you, and I will be grateful for your contributions.

But that said, I think that it is high time for those who fear

God, those who are Protestant Christians, to step up the plate.

Amen. And I think a lot of it has to do with being as cunning as serpents and gentle as doves.

We have to use wisdom and discretion, just like at the workplace it would be inappropriate during certain hours and activities while you are being paid to do a job, to be evangelizing people.

But at the same time, you can, during your private life and during a lunch break or a snack break, while you're developing friendships and so on, evangelize people, as we are all called to declare the gospel to anyone who we providentially encounter.

Well, anytime we talk about something that's right or wrong, there's always that nagging little question, especially these days in our society, of how do you know?

And by whose authority? Yeah. Well, we have to go to our midway break right now, which is the longer than normal break, so please be patient with us.

Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because they have to localize geographically

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and all of their programming to Lake City, Florida, or they will be penalized by the

FCC. So please be patient with us and use this time wisely, this extended break in the middle of the show, by writing down as much of the information as you possibly can, provided by advertisers, so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to them.

And hopefully, often, that will mean that you're purchasing their products, using their services, visiting their churches, supporting their parachurch organizations.

But when you cannot do any of those things, please, at the very least, respond to our advertisers by thanking them for sponsoring this show.

If, indeed, you love the show and you don't want it to disappear, because keep in mind, we absolutely, positively depend upon our advertisers to exist.

As much as we love and appreciate and are grateful for all the donations we receive, we don't receive nearly enough to keep this program going.

We depend upon our advertisers. So please respond to as many of them as you can and also, obviously, use this time to write down questions for our guest today,

Jonathan Hill, South Carolina State Representative, about the Abolish Abortion Rally at the

South Carolina State House next week, and also about abortion in general. Our email address, again, is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside of the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

We'll be right back after these messages, so don't go away. I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

My friend, Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia, once again, for the

G3 Conference. This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th, through Saturday, October 2nd, on the theme,

Christ is Supreme Over All. I'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching, and singing, including

John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Conrad M. Bayway, Daryl Bernard Harrison, and Virgil Walker.

For details, visit g3conference .com. That's g3conference .com. Chris Arnson and I hope to see you

September 30th through October 2nd at G321. This is James White reminding you that Christ is

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Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the

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Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

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Gary DeMar, president of American Vision, had to say about Iron Trump and Zion Radio recently.

Good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for more than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air, so I don't have to brag about myself.

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Trump and Zion Radio, airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to 6 p .m.

Eastern Time, at IronTrumpAndZionRadio .com. I'm Dr.

Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Every day, at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

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That's liyfc .org. Grace Church at Franklin O Hail the power of Jesus' name

This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.

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Lindbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lindbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Lindbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402.

Or visit LindbrookBaptist .org. That's LindbrookBaptist .org. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

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Without their continued advertising and the funding that comes with it, we would likely not remain on the air barring a financial miracle of God, of course.

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And when you're purchasing gifts for loved ones, remember not only to purchase gifts for your brothers and sisters in Christ who already know the gospel, as important as that is to edify those who are already

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Before we return to our guest today, and if you just tuned in, our guest today is

South Carolina State Representative Jonathan Hill. We are addressing the Abolish Abortion Rally at the

South Carolina State House next week, and we're discussing abortion in general. Before we return to that conversation,

I have just a few very important announcements to make. First of all, please mark your calendars for this

Friday. We have Dr. Conrad Mbewe returning to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio as a guest.

Dr. Mbewe has been a dear friend of mine since 1995. He is the pastor of Kabwata Baptist Church of Lusaka, Zambia, Africa.

He's also on the faculty of the African Christian University. He is one of the most profound and powerful

Reformed Baptist voices on the planet Earth, and he happens to be also a colleague at African Christian University and the pastor of Voti Baucom.

So please mark your calendars to tune in to the program this Friday. Tune in every day, of course.

We've always got excellent guests and themes, but since it's been a while since we've had Dr. Mbewe on, make a special note of that on your calendar.

Also, speaking of Voti Baucom, you've been hearing his name come up in our advertisements for the

G3 conference, which I will be attending, and where I will be manning an exhibitor's booth for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio for the fourth year in a row.

This will be September 30th through October 2nd in Atlanta, Georgia. Well, you've been hearing

Voti Baucom's name as one of the speakers on the roster. That may no longer be the case, and I emphasize the word may no longer be the case, because if you haven't heard,

Dr. Baucom, or Voti Baucom, has had some serious health setbacks. He just very recently had quadruple bypass surgery, and he is recovering with his family right now.

I believe he may still be in Jacksonville, Florida, recovering before returning to Zambia.

But so it is still up in the air. Please pray for his full recovery, his restoration to full strength, health, and vitality, not only so that he can remain on the roster at the

G3 conference this fall, but obviously infinitely more importantly that his family would be spared the loss of their precious loved one,

Voti, and the Church of Jesus Christ would be spared the loss of such a powerful member and blessing to the body of Christ here on the planet

Earth. We don't want Voti to be taken away from us too soon at this young, ripe age, and I just cannot say enough words of praise about this dear brother.

So please pray for Voti Baucom. Also, folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, please go to www .ironsharpensironradio

.com, click support, then click click to donate now. You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.

If you prefer snail mail, using the United States Postal Service, well, a physical address will appear on your screen as well when you click support at www .ironsharpensironradio

.com where you can mail checks made payable to Ironsharpensironradio. Also, if you would like to advertise with us, as long as whatever it is you are promoting is compatible with what we believe, you don't have to believe exactly as I do, but you need to be promoting something that is at the very least compatible with what

I believe, then please feel free to send in an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

and put advertising in the subject line. We are in urgent need of your advertising dollars as well, so we would love to help you launch an ad campaign quickly if at all possible.

Remember folks, I don't want my listeners siphoning money away from your regular giving that you're accustomed to to your own local church where you are a member in order to give to Ironsharpensironradio.

In other words, don't punish your own church financially by blessing us financially. Never do that.

Also, if you are really struggling to survive, please don't put your family in serious financial jeopardy or peril by giving to Ironsharpensironradio.

Those two things are commands of God in Scripture providing for your church and providing for your family.

Providing for Ironsharpensironradio is obviously not a command of God in Scripture, but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands and you love this show and you don't want to disappear, please use that extra money that may be collecting interest in the bank that you use for recreational purposes, that you use for trivial purposes.

Use some of that money to bless us if indeed you have it. We have been hit really hard financially due to the hysteria associated with the coronavirus pandemic because people's businesses have been either shut down or their income has been radically reduced because of this hysteria and because of mandates and all kinds of things that have actually reached the point of insanity.

And as a result, these people who have been hurt financially are giving less or not giving at all anymore.

Well, please help us replenish that which was lost, if you can, if you are blessed financially above and beyond your ability to support your church and family.

Please go to ironsharpensironradio .com and click support, then click to donate now. Also, if you are not a member of a local

Bible -believing church, I have lists, extensive lists, spanning the globe of theologically sound, biblically faithful churches, and I have already helped many people in our audience or in all parts of the planet

Earth find churches, sometimes right around the corner from their own houses. I may be able to help you in the same way if you are indeed without a church home, at least without a church home that's biblically faithful.

Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line. I may be able to help you.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address to send in a question to South Carolina State Representative Jonathan Hill on the abortion or abolish abortion rally at the

South Carolina State House. And your questions obviously can be on abortion in general or even politics in general from a

Christian viewpoint. Our email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who has a question for you.

Bobby asks, Are you familiar with the wonderful work that Pastor Jeff Durbin and the

Apologia Church of Phoenix, Arizona are doing to rescue the lives of unborn children? You know,

I am. And it has been influential to me. And I'm actually very excited to let your listeners know that Pastor Jeff is actually going to be joining us for our rally on May 4th at the

State House. So we're very excited about that. Praise God. Jeff is a dear friend, and he's been a guest in this program.

And what a tireless, zealous, unwaveringly committed brother he is to rescuing the life of the unborn.

And I could tell by everything you said today that he is on the same exact page as you are in your niche in the movement to abolish abortion, and politically as well.

So we are grateful for him and the Apologia Church and for their documentaries, largely due to Marcus Pittman, who was a member there, is now a member of Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho.

Marcus Pittman. Babies are murdered here. So we want to thank them.

And thank you, Bobby, for the question. We have

John and Banger Maine, who wants to know, another way that there is a division amongst those who claim to be pro -life is the view on how women who have their babies murdered should be treated legally.

There are some who believe that there should be no penalty legally for a woman who commits such a crime, and there are others who believe that she should be treated just like every other murderer, according to the circumstances, of course.

What is your view on this? Well, we would be remiss to discuss this issue without addressing that.

I would say that when it comes to making our laws, I think we have to start from the point of what does

God's righteousness require. I don't think that we can claim to be enacting just law if our laws call something that is evil, that God calls evil, and we call it acceptable.

We call it women's health, for instance, or women's choice or privacy.

And so we have to start from that point. Now, does that mean that every single person who ever commits any kind of crime should and must be prosecuted to the fullest extent?

In other words, should they receive justice, is there a place for mercy? And clearly,

Scripture teaches that there is a place for mercy, and God has provided for that for all of us, first and foremost through the gospel, through his

Son who took that penalty for us. And likewise, Jesus set the precedent that when the religious and government rulers of the day dragged a woman to him who allegedly was caught in adultery, and Jesus famously said, whoever is here without sin, let him cast the first stone.

And he bent down and began writing in the sand. Some people think that maybe he stooped down and started writing the

Ten Commandments or something like that. But God's law convicts every single one of us.

Not one of us is innocent, can claim to be innocent. We may not have aborted our children, but we have in some way violated

God's law, and I think that when it comes to dealing with other people, we have to keep that in view as well.

But we cannot, we cannot say that what

God calls evil is good and think that our laws are just, righteous, or even merciful.

It has to start with saying this is what the penalty is for doing something that is evil.

And abortion clearly is. So I don't know if that fully answers the question, but...

Sure. In fact... Yeah, go ahead. I was going to say that even liberals, most of the time, at least those that have a voice you hear in the media, and even aggressive pro -abortionists have typically been extremely opposed, and I know it's illogical, it's really hypocritical, but they have been extremely opposed to hearing the stories of young women giving birth in a bathroom or something, putting the baby in a shoebox and throwing it in a dumpster.

Even those that are pro -abortion have been typically opposed to that. Now, they really have no logical reason for that, in my opinion, but I think that if we, as a society, rightly prosecute a young woman for doing that, obviously there should be no difference if she is having an abortion.

Well, and our laws have to reflect a moral and just standard.

I mean, they really do. If we don't, then by force of law we're committing injustice. You know,

Chris, if somebody does you wrong and the law says, well, they didn't actually do you wrong, actually the person who did that to you, the victim, that wouldn't be merciful to that person that did the thing to you.

It would actually be committing an injustice upon you, and that's exactly what failure to provide equal justice for the unborn does.

And so, you know, first and foremost, I think the question actually takes the focus off of where the focus needs to be, and that is that,

I'm sorry, I don't know what the circumstances are, or regardless of what the circumstances are, you aren't allowed to kill another human being without consequence.

Now, that said, you know, when it comes to, you know, the laws on murder and the way the criminal justice system works, our founding fathers gave us a system that, if it's going to err, should err on the side of failing to prosecute someone who is guilty rather than prosecuting someone who is not guilty.

In other words, it errs on the side of assuming innocence. We have a system that assumes that you're innocent and you must prove that the person is guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.

And in South Carolina, our murder statutes are quite stringent, actually. We are a death penalty state, although we do have a de facto moratorium on death penalties and executions in place right now, as do some other states, because we allow, you know, a person to choose their own execution method, and South Carolina currently allows two execution methods.

One is by lethal injection and one is by electric chair. And so, naturally, most people would choose the lethal injection method, but we have no lethal injections and cannot get any because no one will sell the state of South Carolina, you know, the drugs required to do that.

And that's true nationwide. South Carolina is not unique in that regard. And that's actually an issue that's currently being debated and discussed in the state

House and Senate. But, you know, I think that there's a conversation to be had as to what is the right way to prosecute.

You know, what are the level of evidence and proof that's required?

Does our current justice system, you know, actually meet the due process standards that the

Bible would teach are appropriate? You know, are we wrongfully convicting people and executing them?

There are many questions that need to be asked around all of that. And it may surprise you or some of your listeners that where I'm at on that right now is that I believe that we have far too high rate of error on wrongful convictions of capital crimes for us to be executing the death penalty.

So, you know, if anyone wants to go out and say, well, Representative Hill wants to execute mothers who get abortions, that is flat out untrue.

In fact, I don't want to execute anyone for any crime because I don't trust our government to actually get it right 100 % of the time.

In fact, when I see the rise of leftist tyranny, the death penalty is actually making me nervous because of the fact that who knows where the left will bring this country in the areas of tyranny.

That's right, yeah. And more now than ever, there are so many ways for a person to get on the wrong side of the law.

And again, while we should, and a Christian involved in politics, have a mandate to try to ensure that our laws reflect the justice and righteousness of God, frequently they do not.

Frequently things are illegal that should be legal, and some things are, and vice versa.

So, you know, there are many, and sometimes the law is even contradictory. So no matter what you do, you're a criminal.

In the eyes of the state, if they want to prosecute you, they can. So you're right, that's tyrannical.

And our founding fathers tried to give us a system that would protect us from that, and sometimes it does a good job, but ultimately it's going to come down to we the people engaging in the process and using the tools that we were given.

And obviously, in such circumstances, the women, maybe not women at all, but maybe young girls who have been coerced or forced by their parents to have the baby.

In South Carolina, our murder statutes have a way out of a series of aggravating factors and mitigating factors.

And of course, there are mitigating factors listed out that a judge is required and a jury is required to consider, including the circumstances of how this happened.

Was the person being coerced? Were they in their right mind? And various things like that. And conversely,

I think it's significant for us to note that one of the aggravating factors that would tend to bias a judge and a jury towards a stricter and more severe penalty in a murder trial is, was the victim under the age of 11?

In other words, our murder statutes are set up in such a way to consider killing a child as being a more heinous crime than killing an adult.

And yet, when it comes to killing the unborn, we don't even call that murder. We have an anonymous listener who says, this is obviously a response to our whole discussion on co -belligerence early when we work in the pro -life or the anti -abortion or the abolish abortion movement with those of other religions.

This anonymous listener says, as explained in the resolution passed by the

American Council of Christian Churches, co -belligerence with followers of false religions such as Roman Catholicism is unbiblical.

Please consider reading on air the concluding two sentences of this resolution.

We desire righteousness in our land, but the ecumenical compromise which the doctrine of co -belligerence requires ultimately undermines that righteousness by erasing fundamental doctrinal distinctives between believers and unbelievers.

By God's grace, we determine to continue to have no part in that compromise. I have a lot of heartfelt agreement with that sentiment.

But at the same time, I think things need to be defined because is it co -belligerence to even vote for a non -Christian who happens to be in agreement with all of your political views that a person running for office or in political power has actually a role in either preserving or bringing about.

Like for instance, if there was a consistently conservative

Roman Catholic running for office who agreed with me on scriptural matters even more than an evangelical running for office,

I would vote for the Roman Catholic. But if you could respond to what our guest has presented here.

Yeah, I mean, you and I are on the same page with that. I think the other thing that comes to mind on this question is, you know, besides how far do you take that, you know, can you really be held responsible for the actions of another person?

If you're out there fighting to end abortion and someone else comes up and begins working in concert and in the same direction as you, alongside, as it were, you know, are you two therefore required to stop fighting to end abortion and to leave the arena altogether because this other person or entity showed up?

And I think that, you know, it would be absurd to conclude that.

So, you know, that's certainly not how I feel. You know, once again, I draw a distinction between, you know, building a leadership team and a leadership structure and, you know, causing myself to be unequally yoked with other people that have beliefs that are incompatible with mine versus having a, you know, more loose situation where, you know, you're out there doing stuff and someone else wants to attend your rally or to, you know, do some of the same things as you or do something that's compatible with what you're doing.

You know, number one, you can't control that. Number two, you aren't responsible for that. And number three, you aren't necessarily even asking for or inviting that.

So that's simply where I'm at now. All that said, I caveat everything that I've said with, you know,

I certainly am not a pastor, and when it comes to what churches do and pastors who are responsible for those churches, they have to consider these questions and, you know, do the best that they can based on their understanding of what

Scripture requires. So, but that's where I'm at, personally. Yeah, I happen to have a very high regard for the

American Council of Christian Churches. I've been to at least one of their conferences, and a local congregation here in Carlisle, about ten minutes from where I'm sitting,

Faith Chapel in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, is a part of that organization. But that doesn't mean that I absolutely, 100 % agree with every conclusion or decision that they make.

They are a bit more fundamentalist than I am, and more separatist, but at the same time

I applaud much of what they're doing. But interestingly enough, they are also ecumenical, not with those that deny the gospel, but there are both

Reformed and Armenian churches and pastors who are members of that organization.

Well, that's a very interesting thing to note, and I guess, you know,

I guess none of us are perfect, are we? Well, being a

Reformed Baptist myself, that was one of the hallmarks of what we believe, that none of us are perfect.

It's called total depravity. I don't know about you,

Chris, I'm a four -point Calvinist. I believe I'm basically a good person. I'm assuming that's sarcasm.

Of course. But thank you, Anonymous, and if you are a first -time questioner, by the way, you have won a free

New American Standard Bible, which we give away to first -time questioners as a matter of practice on this program, although I'm not 100 % sure if the

American Council of Christian Churches is King James only or not, but we would love to send you that New American Standard Bible if indeed you are a first -time questioner and if indeed you would like one.

And thanks to our friends who publish the NASB who are faithful supporters of this program financially.

We have another listener, B .B. in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know, is your organization involved with actually helping mothers take care of the babies that they give birth to after being convinced not to have an abortion?

Are your members of your organization involved in actually adopting these children on occasion?

And there is often an accusation by the left that we do not care about babies after they're born, and I know that that is just slanderous rhetoric, but I was just wondering what you and your colleagues and constituents believe is the appropriate action to be taking when babies are born and the mothers giving birth cannot take care of them.

Right. Well, it's a surprisingly complicated issue.

I certainly do have an intense desire to provide anything within my power to care for a person who is in need, born or unborn.

And as God gives me opportunity and ability to do so, that's what my wife and I do.

And so, you know, without going too personal and too in detail on that, let me just start from that point and go on.

I think that, you know, what this question often becomes a proxy for is, if you're truly pro -life, then you would actually agree with us that we should, you know, expand

Medicaid and remove all exceptions and basically open up taxpayer -funded government health benefits for everyone, or, you know, fill in the blank whatever entitlement program that the person happens to be advocating for, free college for all, you know, any number of very leftist policy positions.

And I think that's a false dichotomy that you're either pro -life or you're, if you're pro -life, that you would therefore have to be for those policies because that assumes that the government is the best provider of those services and the proper provider of those services.

And, of course, as a conservative, I disagree with both premises. So I think that we have to be careful there.

And finally, you know, I'm extremely supportive of anyone that would provide foster care services or adoption and things like that.

However, I have to be careful and somewhat wary when it comes to that.

For one thing, I've seen far too many instances in dealing with constituents and people here in South Carolina.

And I know this is happening in many other states as well. Texas is one of note. But, you know, there are many kids that end up in the foster care system that have no business being there.

They're removed by the state from loving and qualified parents and sometimes placed at risk just by being in the system to start with.

Second, there are a lot of predatory attorneys out there that would, you know, desire to set you up with some supposedly needy child that needs to be adopted while the state then goes and terminates the rights of a qualified and loving parent who wants to be part of their child's life.

And so I think that, you know, while on the one hand I certainly applaud and welcome anyone that feels called to adopt or foster,

I also know that the system does not, in fact, work very well and is the perpetrator itself of a great deal of injustice, which distresses me very much.

And, you know, that's a larger conversation, which is probably beyond the scope of this podcast, but just be aware there are a lot of issues in our justice system in South Carolina and probably in whatever state your listeners are in because it's a widespread issue.

You're talking about regarding adoption laws and things like that? Not the laws themselves per se, but rather how the state agencies sever the parental rights of people that shouldn't have their parental rights severed.

I know of one young man here in South Carolina who, you know, he and his girlfriend got pregnant out of wedlock.

He wanted to get married. She chose not to. He told her that he wanted to be part of his daughter's life.

She said okay, and then she goes without his knowledge and against his consent puts the child up for adoption.

And next thing you know, the kid's been adopted out by a, you know, a couple clear across the country, and this poor single dad fights tooth and nail and against all odds manages to regain custody of his daughter and has been a very good and loving father to his daughter.

So, you know, that's one instance, but there are many instances like that where things like that are happening.

So I think that, you know, we can't just assume that the institutions of the state are working the way they're supposed to, and we can't.

And as a result, we can't, you know, pigeonhole someone that, well, you know, if you're not adopting 10 kids or 20 or 50 kids, then you can't really, you're not actually pro -life because there are all these needy kids out there.

You know, it's much more complicated than that. And so I just wanted to bring that up.

Sure. In fact, we can very excitedly talk about at least one instance involving our mutual friend,

Jeff Durbin, who adopted a baby that was rescued from,

I can't remember now if the baby was actually rescued from an abortion or the mother who was pregnant and knew she could not care for the baby just heard about the

Ministry of Apology of Church. But either way, the baby that Jeff and his wife adopted had spina bifida, stage four spina bifida.

And when the baby was being delivered and Jeff was in the hospital waiting to be able to take this baby home with his wife, the baby which is now named

Augustine, the doctors were in utter amazement when the baby was born, when the baby came out of the womb.

There was no sign at all of spina bifida. They were absolutely certain, the doctors, that the baby had spina bifida and the sonograms and so forth had proven this.

And miraculously, it seems, this baby was born completely normal and healthy and is now being raised in the home of Jeff and Candy Durbin.

So if anybody wants to find out more about that whole story, we go to ApologyofChurch .com.

ApologyofChurch .com. That's A -P -O -L -O -G -I -A -Church .com.

We're going to our final break right now. It's going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks. If you have a question, please send it in immediately before we run out of time.

ChrisOrenson at gmail .com. ChrisOrenson at gmail .com. We'll be right back after these messages. Don't go away.

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Don't go away. If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio One of the way you can help keep the show in the air

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air. Welcome back, and we are talking about the

Abolish Abortion Rally at the South Carolina State House next week with South Carolina State Representative Jonathan Hill.

And Jonathan, the last questioner, I believe, presumed or assumed that you were part of an organization.

I know that you are the South Carolina State Representative, but is there actually an organization that you are a member of that's involved in the rally?

So, this is a joint effort between myself and a local pastor in Rock Hill, South Carolina, and some of the people associated with Jeff Durbin.

Action for Life, which is a red state reform project, which is working in concert with Apologia.

This is hosted officially by Action for Life and myself. All that's disclosed on abolishabortionsc .com.

If anyone wants to check out Action for Life, you can go to takeactionforlife .org and see them.

And of course, everyone's familiar with endabortionnow .com, which is Jeff Durbin's organization. And so, that's who's officially hosting this rally.

Now, my goal is for this rally to be a starting point for us to identify as many people that believe like us in South Carolina that will work with us to help us do this.

I'm under no delusions that one rally is going to get the job done.

This is going to be an effort that is, quite frankly, going to probably require years of work, years of hard work.

And so, I am hoping to start a new organization within South Carolina dedicated to this, but we're not at that point yet.

So, this particular rally is a partnership between Action for Life and myself, and we're being helped along by several others,

Jeff Durbin, some local pastors, and so forth. If you could repeat all of the details that our listeners need to know, especially those within driving distance to South Carolina or who already live there, let our listeners know.

Absolutely. If you're interested in helping us here in South Carolina and attending our rally, that's going to be on Tuesday, May 4th at 10 a .m.

to noon, and it's going to be at the South Carolina Capitol in Columbia at the State House.

And for all the details and to RSVP, go to abolishabortionsc .com.

That's abolishabortionsc .com. We really hope that you will RSVP in advance.

We're planning on doing this inside the State House. We have the entire first floor of the

State House reserved for our event. But that has a capacity limit of 400, and I would just be thrilled to have to move this thing outside, which we are prepared to do if we get more than 400 people there.

So, help us out. RSVP. Let us know if you're coming.

And also, please help us spread the word. People are going to come.

They're much more likely to come if a friend invites them, someone they know and trust. So, we're really relying on word of mouth here and asking that people get in touch with the people at their churches and help us spread the word and their materials on abolishabortionsc .com.

There's a flyer. We have an announcement graphic that can be put in your announcement rotations or printed out and inserted into the bulletin and so forth.

So, there are various resources on there that you can use to spread the word.

But at a minimum, please go there, RSVP, share it with your friends. Yes, I actually have been obviously misspeaking.

I've been saying next week, but it's Tuesday, May 4th. It is Tuesday, May 4th, yes.

Yes, I apologize for that error. Tuesday, May 4th, folks. Sorry for the constant repetition of this event being held next week.

And go to abolishabortionsc for SouthCarolina .com, abolishabortionsc .com.

We have time for at least one more question from a listener. We have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, who asks,

I don't know whether or not you are post -millennial, but many people seem very pessimistic about this country ever turning to the place where they believe as a whole that abortion is murder and therefore that it will be outlawed in most or all states.

What is your view and what is your level of optimism? Well, I think that my level of optimism is possibly somewhat irrational, but I do feel more and more optimistic as time goes on, strangely enough.

I think one thing that I'm seeing is that the upcoming generations are some of the most pro -life demographics that this country has seen in a long, long time.

That gives me some hope. Furthermore, I've just been astounded and thrilled to see the amount of energy in South Carolina that evidently no one had tapped until now on the matter of abolishing abortion.

It turns out there are a lot of people really interested in that and want to help. A number of people have stepped up to the plate, identified themselves, reached out.

I'm continually meeting new people every single week, it seems, that want to help out.

So I'm thrilled for that. I guess, ultimately, we're free to be optimistic if our end goal is the proper end goal.

And what is that proper end goal? The proper end goal is to simply glorify God. That's why we're doing anything.

Amen. We're out of time, brother, and I want to repeat your website. It is AbolishAbortionSC .com

AbolishAbortionSC .com Thank you so much for being such a superb guest. Thank everybody who listened today, and especially those who took the time to write in questions.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater

Savior than you are a sinner. Amen. Thank you so much, Chris. Thank you, brother.