Tape 3 - Counseling Seminar

Park Meadows Church

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so consequently we get this and we become judgmental. We begin to judge this person and we must be very careful of that not realizing that under varying circumstances any individual may succumb and may come into a crisis and fall under that crisis and they begin to jeopardize what they know to be the truth and they're not able to activate that truth and a person can become very superior in their attitude quite judgmental and what that attitude does it becomes a barrier between the counselor and the counselee it just becomes a wall and that wall is very difficult to break down and so we need to establish rapport and the only way we can do is let person know we are not judging that person we're not judgmental the

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Word of God will judge them we don't worry about that most time they've already judged themselves and that's part of their problem they're so down on themselves they can't see light so it's a negative attitude one of superiority and judgmentalness so the second thought is that let's suppose a person comes this happened in a meeting that I was in and it happened to be a prophecy meeting that I was in and a young man came in and he wasn't dressed like everyone else he didn't have the appearance of everyone else he had a guitar on his back and he smelled like if a bar of life boy had been given to him he would have gone into a coronary

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I mean it just it was horrible and you could just sniff him he came in to the back of the congregation and he sat on the back immediately three ladies got up on the row he was sitting on they moved the other side

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I mean you could hear this noise when he sat down it sounded like vacuum cleaners you could hear these three ladies you know just like this and they got up and moved and that young man he sat and he looked for a moment and he got up long -haired sandals he got up and began to walk out and one of the men

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I just noticed this but didn't know the situation till later but I noticed one of the men stopped him at the door and I saw them talking

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I saw the man escorting him out and they were talking outside you can just see them and then they got out of my vision I found out later from the man that young boy was hitchhiking to the west coast he had heard some singing and had stood out there listening to the singing of the people and then as I began to speak he just came in to see what was all about he wasn't hearing me speak he just came in see what speaking was about and he told this man that he this man began to try to witness to him he said he didn't have any purpose in life he had no goal he was just going to California and he said and I heard you people sing some songs that I had heard when

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I was a child he said I came in to hear was all he says you people don't believe what you say or what you sing he said

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I sat down he said I know I'm dirty and I know I don't look like everyone else does he said but those three ladies

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I'm sure have sung the same songs and they really believe what you say and they believe they believe what you say but they got up and left and moved the other side they don't care about me or anyone else and he says

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I don't want anything you have to say and he left now I don't know whether he would have received it or not but I know that that attitude is prevalent in Christianity if they don't look like us dress like us and act like us and talk like us

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God doesn't really have anything for them what would we do if some guy came in and staggered down the aisle in the middle of the service and just collapsed in the row next to you and fell on you smelling like a brewery what would you do you know put the side of the cross on him get him away from me call the deacons escort him out pastor stop the sermon horrify the first book that I read as a young Christian a young Jewish boy 21 years of age was called in his steps by Charles Sheldon and that same incident basically occurred a man came down that book

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I have never forgotten it all my life never forgotten and it has influenced I am where I go someone's read that book everywhere tremendous book so what

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I'm saying is you and I can get an attitude of being judgmental and resentful and they will read this resentment now resentment is just a form of hatred resentment is a mild form of hatred and we deal with demonic problems we discover very quickly that the enemy considers it to be hatred and that's going to be communicated to this prospective person who's come to us and an opportunity to share the gospel the opportunity to encourage a life is missed because they watch our eyes and they see us looking at those clothes with disdain they see us looking at this and and they read our countenance and we've become immediately judgmental because they aren't dressed as we think they ought to be dressed at that particular moment without even understanding the situation without understanding the situation the street people know well and so many times a person comes in for counseling the same attitude prevails when we know that their friends are ungodly people and we immediately begin to say you don't need to go here you don't need to go there you don't need to go here and we reject their friends immediately without even talking to them very much and when we reject their friends we reject them and therefore again an opportunity to share the gospel

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I'm just being about being judgmental about being superior or holier -than -thou in our attitude and building up a resentment towards them or that even though we don't agree with them we must get them to a point where they can receive what we're saying without giving them that attitude immediately as they sit down in front of us and so it's a negative attitude a man and wife can approach another negative attitude and this has happened so many times a man and his wife comes in they have a daughter they say we've got a problem with her well what's the problem here appointments been set and so forth you've gone through all the original things and I said well she just will not observe our curfew we tell her to be in at 11 o 'clock every night she comes in at 1 she comes in half the time smelling like alcohol we don't know where she's been she won't tell us and all of these things go on she stays out late at night we don't know what she's doing or where she comes from so we turn to the teenager and ask a couple of pertinent questions and immediately of course you sense there's rebellion immediately we sense that there's this rebellious attitude and great hostility and so we turn to the parents

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I said well I'll tell you right now if you had disciplined this girl when she was a child she wouldn't be in that condition well they obviously know that they already know that wrong wrong thing to say and then let's go the opposite extreme many parents have done the best they know how to do and that child still is sitting there in hostility and rebellion now discipline is a relative word what do we mean by discipline discipling do we mean correction yeah do we mean spare the rod spoil child yes

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I think of discipline there was a young lady you know we don't keep our words with children do we if you do that again

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I'm gonna get you if you do that again I'm gonna if you do that again dad will get you if you do that again dad will get you and when he gets through I will get you

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I told you five times don't do that again and on we go and those children know don't they that registers in their mind a young mother in the northern part of the

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United States couldn't go anywhere and she had a little five -year -old child snow this kid was just real rambunctious and she was trying to do something in the living room and she heard all these pots and pans winter and this kid sitting around the middle forward and open the cabinet pots and pans everywhere just everywhere she puts them back in it says no no no

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I'm closing back up she goes back in there two or three minutes later I hear you go back in there there is she said

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I'll tell you what if you do that again I'm gonna throw you out in the snow it's what I'm gonna do with you put some back in there you don't kid why'd

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I you know didn't register with him she thought cabinet back open here they come again and she walks toward that and then she remembered she remembered if I tell a kid

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I'm gonna do something and don't do it she's walked in and pick that kid up and walked through the window open they live on the first floor and out that window that kid went about three feet of snow can you imagine little kid mine sailing out there he's like going off the

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Empire State Building now I don't advocate that another incident that we have a friend who's in the medical profession his cousin had a little boy his name was

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Lee now Lee was one of these kids that bites you know he thinks he's an alligator or something he loves to bite people and you know

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I mean when he bites he bites it's like a snake he just grabs hold on and you won't turn losing there's a bruise and and some just deep lacerations and teeth mark

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I mean on their arm they could never break him on biting but they sent him to visit a farm where the grandmother lived wise dear old grandmother not much worldly education but wise in the ways of children and all the children were playing out there the neighborhood kids had come to the other farm there were nine or ten kids out there now

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Lee was about 11 years of age and so Lee bits up I didn't somebody she heard all this turmoil and she goes out and said what's the problem said leave it me looking and here's this big mark on his gizzle she said

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Lee I told you about that I've told you not to bite anybody and I've told you the next time I did and what she told me she said if you ever do it again

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I'm gonna hang you so that grandmother grabbed Lee by the hand and she went out in the barn and she came out with a rope and she got her a noose and made her a noose and she came up where y 'all where you going said we're gonna hang

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Lee and boy this little kid you know he's a little guy he's going along and grandma's got him along she's going out there find a big old tree out there in the middle of the farm she goes out there and throws that rope up over that tree and she bites that noose and puts it around that little kids neck and just snugs him up a little bit and he's standing you know just let him know the ropes there she says to each one of you eight or nine children said stand up y 'all just come on up here and kiss

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Lee goodbye these little kids come up and say so long Lee they hug him and kiss him goodbye

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Lee and then Lee gets you know he gets a liking after about the third kiss it's kind of fun she just snugs him up a little bit tightens that rope and Lee's standing on his tiptoes a little kid 11 years of age and each one boy and as he gets to his last she starts kind of putting where he's really standing on those toes you know and they think it's there and he figures maybe this old lady you know she is gonna hang me and each one of those little kids have tears just flowing so long

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Lee goodbye Lee you know she gets through boy she just starts tightening that thing up a little bit and she says now

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Lee I'll give you one more opportunity if you'll give grandmother your word forever that you'll never bite anybody and she just tightens it a little bit grandmother won't hang you oh no

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I will never bite anybody to this day that boy has never ever it's hard to get him to eat food he won't you know that kid he won't hardly chew on food they tell me now

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I don't know if that's the wisest way to go about it or not but discipline is a relative term but the

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Bible does authorize discipline discipline I was sharing with the ladies who do so wonderfully over the preparing them the sandwiches and things and the chili and so forth and we were just talking about we have a family that are very close friends of my wife and I and I'm not going to but I want to share with you about discipline at this point because we may not later on get into teenagers and young people and it's important that I do get this information to you this family is a veterinarian and he and his wife he has four children he has a little boy

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Paul Paul's about eight or nine he has a daughter Kelly and Kelly's about 11 and he has a little young boy named

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Brad Brad's 14 I think and in Jennifer is 16 now this dad has spent time with these children each morning they're up and they're into God's Word and he gives them scriptures to memorize that week they have projects that they do together he takes the daughter out sometimes on Thursday night and she's kind of his date and then he takes the boy out and the dad does things they do projects together they'll take a

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Saturday as a family they'll find widows in the community and they'll just go down and say may we cut your yard for you can we trim your head they said well how much is oh it's no charge we do this as a family and all of them wife and all of them they come down and they cut somebody's yard trim the hedges as just a family project once a month the wife is sent out of that house on Saturday morning early and those children that dad completely clean that house wash clothes clean windows vacuum they do everything and they know they're not perfect they have problems that they're working on but it's unbelievable these children when these children do something wrong they have a rule if one kid does something and the other one doesn't tell them if he doesn't confess to it then others don't tell they all get corrected now these children come up and ask for correction says dad

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I need a correction well how many licks do you think you need so well you know I have a strong will and the first four or five don't faze me very much so you probably have to give me ten you say all right son go in the room

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I'll be there in a moment he goes in he gives him ten these kids ask for it and he'll come out and he'll say you're not going to get any supper tonight now you know what time mother has dinner you right in the yard you knew what time to be in here you go to your room and also this teenage daughter's just looking he says do you think dad's unfair about this yes sir well what do you think about this and well you know we had company my wife and I are sitting there and they really didn't know for sure you know and we had company here and she gave all of her reasons and he said all right he said okay

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I'll accept that he says you were able to sit and go ahead sit down and I'll not correct you in this this way but from now we don't go back to the room anymore he said now we go back to the licks we go back to the corrections these kids will ask him now we had some friends who came from another state that had two daughters who were kind of rebellious and this one they were having a little trouble with her and so I said why don't

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I invite this family over and just let these kids share so they came over that evening and so I asked this young boy

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I said Brad may I ask you some questions about your family we're sitting in the living room he said sure and he looks over his dad you know his dad said you answer any question honestly don't you don't you worry about what mother and dad said you just answer honestly so I asked him all these things and I said well

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Brad why do you want these corrections why do you go and ask for them he said I have a strong will and if I don't get corrections then

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I'll get out of balance in my life now he has a real temper you know at school somebody says something he just solves it that way he just pops them but then he's got to come home tell his dad because if he doesn't the others will and they're all you know because they're don't want corrections yes they were

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Brad all right and then sometimes if they've all been involved he'll say Brad how many corrections do you want and he'll say well now then you know

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Paul is very sensitive so he should probably only get two two usually does him good and Kelly you know she's a sweet young girl she probably wouldn't need more than two

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Jennifer's a teenager you know you might could send her in a room or something but me dad you know how my will is and you know how my temper is and so dad

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I probably need 10 and his dad say okay and they decide and so we were sitting there and these little girls eyes this big saying these kids go ask for it you know and so to close that off he said

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Brad mom's dead he says Brad who had you rather correct you dad or mother he said oh dad

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I would have thought he said mother you know she's you know she wouldn't she's real tend to hearty but dad you know he can do it

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I thought it said oh mother you know she's easy said dad and he said why son he said well dad when when dad corrects us he comes to us he talks to us about it we determine how many corrections we get now corrections are licks usually and he says he determines how many we get then he tells us he loves us and he tells us why he's correcting us and what he wants to happen out of that correction when he gets through he tells us he loves us again and then he just forgets it it's all over but mother doesn't do that mother comes and she tells us why she's correcting us and she tells us what she wants out of it and then she corrects us she tells us she loves us but she doesn't forget about it she talks about it all day long she just keeps on talking about it and she provokes us and the

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Bible says that you're not provoke your children to anger and she does and she says boy that is right

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I am a provoker I really am and she's having conviction about that I say all that to say this that corrections discipline does work because it's

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God's ordained way and if we do it in love and if we do it with the purposes that God says not as a penal thing but as discipline discipling discipling train up a child you have to make the child you never teach a child to lie they just lie naturally you never teach a child to steal they steal now you're taking a child in a five and dime store or department store you come outside and they've got something in both hands where did you get that they just picked it up because it looked nice they don't care they just do it you have to teach them to tell the truth and teach them not to steal and the only way that can be done is discipline has to be put in there and God has cushioned them and built them in such a way that it is not going to hurt them it hurts their will their will has to be broken you do not break their spirit but if you don't break that will that will will never succumb to God without extreme trials into their life the will has to be broken and channeled the spirit remains intact always and ever so we talk about discipline so whenever we have a mother and daughter our mother and father who brings a daughter in and it's easy to say well if you'd given her the proper discipline that's quite obvious but that's not going to solve the problem and it is true that some parents contribute to the delinquency of the child they say well

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I did all that I could and well did you read scripture with them no did you pray with them no it's interesting that in the home the dads have time for the

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Civitan Rotary they have time for all these things but it's the mother who has the responsibility of teaching those children spiritual matters when it's the father's responsibility it's the father's responsibility because he is the head of the home he is the head of the home the man is the head of the woman as God is the head of Christ and Christ is the head of the man so this is something that we have to work at but we try to develop this in them and we do not use criticism of one or the other we let that young lady know that we're not taking the parent side and we let those parents know that we're not taking that child side or their side that we're there to look at those problems and then quickly for our break an individual comes to the counselor another negative attitude and they begin to relate problems that existed in their life for years these problems have gone on and gone on and a natural response to me well why in the world hasn't somebody helped this person

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I mean they've been to Sunday school they've been to church they've done all of these things why hasn't somebody helped them well it is quite possible if someone had tried to help them they may not have received the counsel anyway maybe someone did try to but they just were not at that point maybe they were not at the point of where they were even looking for help they may not have seen the need they may not have seen the need now

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I can promise you that it's extremely possible to be in the ministry and even be blinded to these things as I shared with you

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I don't share it boastingly at all it's embarrassing to say but out of the years that we've been in the ministry and my wife sitting here and she's prayed for me for years concerning it

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I don't say that I have attained anything but for the first time in my life at least I have some clear vision that I had to sit down one night well as a night and a half and call all across the

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United States of America asking forgiveness from pastors and deacons and people that I had exemplified nothing but pride and self -righteousness and resentment in front of them as I went out ministering in the

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Lord ministering the word it's extremely possible to be completely blinded by pride and filled with self without realizing it without realizing it and God brings a crisis into the light to make that a realization then we don't attain anything overnight but at least we can work on it no we can see it we can see it so here comes a person they have all kinds of problems and difficulties in their life so maybe

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God has just brought this person to the point right now where they can understand now what you'd want to tell them any other time in their life they weren't ready for not making it was how long they've been in church we've seen deacons our deacon 65 years of age came down the aisle we had a pastor been pastoring a church 10 years said

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I've never been saved we had a young man in the state of Texas that preached a hundred and eighty something revival meetings before he got saved now he's pastoring one of the largest churches in the state of Texas it's possible all these things so let's don't just take him you see and say well you should have gotten help a long time ago you've heard all these messages you've been in church you've been in Sanskrit no he may just now be at that point so we don't want to develop that attitude we want to have this opportunity and make it a tremendous opportunity in order to help this person and to be a great blessing to their particular life and then the last one that we will mention to you at this point is that we find a person who comes in and maybe they don't have a lot of money maybe they are a transient person maybe they're a person that's on the move and they have no roots anywhere and they come to you for assistance they knock on your door they come to the church or what have you most usually their experiences are not gonna be the norm their experiences are gonna be so varied they're gonna be such a complex entity you can't take those little cliches any longer you can't just take the normal things you would say to a church member you can't take those things you're saying someone in your community and use them here is a person that has traveled they have gone through situations that are horrible that you don't even want to think about many times don't even want those thoughts in your mind if possible but yet they've got to be dealt with they've got to be helped and so here they are and they may even have a non -christian background and may even be a non -believer and they may have all kinds of injuries within their heart their soul may be ailing their mind may be agonized and all of those things but if you cannot accept that person as a person you'll never be able to reach them we must accept people as people no matter what they do and we'll talk about some of the more serious areas of that in another time and so what we do is as we move through these things and we'll stop with the fifth one is that set a comfortable sequence set a comfortable sequence in these things of negative attitudes after we go through these negative attitudes we find out we don't want those in our lives then you and I come to this counseling situation set something that is comfortable with you in dealing with these people each counselee moves at his own speed you cannot say

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I will spend one day with this person I will spend one week with this person I will spend one month with this person it cannot be determined you may have solved exactly the same problem within one hour with one person and it may take you three months to solve that same problem in the life of another person no two people are alike it's about seven minutes after let me proceed

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I said we'll go one more but we'll take a break at 315 you can develop your own pattern you can develop your own patterns

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I want us to move into the area if I can if possible and I don't know that we can but I want to get at least if in our next session to some of the marital areas but you can set up your own pattern of dealing with individual people you cannot follow mine

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I cannot follow yours you cannot follow anyone you can get all the books on counseling but if you try to do exactly as those books say that they do it will not work for you because you are a different personality and your particular setting is completely different than theirs but you can provide a place pick you out a place if you're going to do it in your home then stabilize it with say my living room is the area that I'm going to use to share my heart with people not the

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DM not the kitchen but I'm gonna and commit that to the Lord commit that space to the

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Lord for them and make it as conducive to a fruitful and uninterrupted discussion as you possibly can but it can be any particular and again as we say as we said a few moments ago an appropriate place and then encourage them to talk freely let them know they can say to you whatever they want to say don't put any restrictions on them when you first meet them as to what they're going to share with you now if you begin lecturing them if you begin preaching them a sermon you're going to develop negative attitudes with them that is not why they've come they sometimes have already heard a sermon they sometimes know the lectures and we don't want to do that and then as you talk to them reflect on what they're saying to you and restate it to them restate it to them in your own words and they'll say no that's not what

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I mean you say well would you explain to me what you meant because that's what I understood you say well yeah I said that but here's what

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I really mean and they'll go ahead and they'll clarify that for you and let them speak because if they relate something to you without you clarifying it with them it is of no value if they just tell you something and if it's not clarified it will really be of no value they've just spoken and you help them carry it but you need to clarify it with them and then don't register any surprise at anything they tell you if they sit there and say

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I just shot a police officer last night and I assaulted two kids and threw one in the river you grab your heart and you know and throw your hand up and back away from them don't register any surprise because if you go to council people you'll hear it all eventually you will hear it all eventually and just listen to them verbally or non -verbally don't register any at all and any information they give you don't raise your eyebrows and don't look at them with disdain be as objective and try to become as poker -faced as you can with them concerning these particular things and then refrain as much as possible from censoring or judging what they are saying censoring or judging what they're saying to you assuming again this judgmental attitude produces such a negative thing with them that they don't feel free to share with you or they won't come back and maybe the

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Lord wants them to come back and to you and it presents a difficulty and then encourage them to suggest to you or to discuss with you ways that they believe are possible to solve their difficulties so well now how would you solve that I mean if you were me and I was telling you all of this what would you think

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I mean how would you suggest to me and deal with that problem they may stammer a little bit but you can help them along that and refrain it is always wise refrain from giving them the solution to their problem if you tell them to do it and they go out and do it because you've told them to do it they're not doing it on the proper motivation they have to do you get them to do what you want them to do but let

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God direct them in doing that people want you to have the magic wand and they want you to give them the solution to their problem instantly and they'll go out and act upon it there are people in churches today who are acting their

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Christian life based upon what somebody told them and the Holy Spirit has nothing to do it and that brings failure somewhere down in the

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Christian life it builds no discipline you know God could have made you and me perfect immediately but he hasn't chosen to do that and Christian character comes through trials and troubles and tribulations and the development and Christian maturity takes time and discipline time and discipline so we want to allow them the same opportunities of growth that we expect the

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Lord to give us and want the Lord to give us and then of course maintain a confidential attitude and anything they're saying to you let them sense that attitude that what they're saying to you is between you and them alright let's go ahead and take our break and then we'll come back and I'd like to show you quickly how to determine what a problem is how do you determine what their problem is and then some association as to how they got to where they are at that particular time and then we'll move towards talking about some marital difficulties or more one of the leading

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Christian psychologists in North America puts out a publication called psychology for living and it's a tremendous publication he's the founder and director of the

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Rosemead that's R -O -S -E -M -E -A -D Graduate School of Psychology and it's in Rosemead California I can't give you right off the top of my head the address to it but you can get it if you have difficulty getting it you can just give your name and address maybe a list of them to the pastor or just have me to write a note down and I'll send it back to the church

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I'd be Jesus way the address back but you can get it it's a he has his course his

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PhD in psychiatry and his purpose and goal is is to fill the country at least where he's working there he does come into Canada and does lecturing he lectures all over the world and is to fill the areas with Christian men in the area of counseling and women and he and his wife and his son they all have their graduate degrees in the area it is probably one of the best they also send little booklets out if you're on their mailing list you automatically get little booklets that they put out all the time

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I was telling my brother I got one on procrastination and I read the first chapter and thought it was about Tuesday I said well

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I probably have time to read that until Monday so I just put it on my desk and to this day I don't think I've ever finished that booklet and but they had them on varying subjects and then you can get back issues and back booklets that's probably one of the best publications that I'm aware of on counseling the manager foundation in Topeka Kansas does have a resource material that you can get and of course it is if I don't know if you're familiar with the

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Mayo Clinic but it is the Mayo Clinic of psychiatric care in our country it is renowned around the world for psychiatric care they have apartments and you just come and stay there for the year your family can come stay with you and it's in apartments and condos and townhouses and things like this it's a very lovely setting and very successful and people come from all over the world to observe and to learn and to study there just off the top of my head those are two let me think about it some more there are many publications but some that others may feel that are worthy that I possibly personally do not and so it'd be for my frame of reference that I want to make sure that if I recommend it to you it's something

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I believe in myself or I wouldn't want to do that so let me think about that a little bit in determining the setting of a problem there are four questions that you ask or that can be asked to determine the setting around a particular problem the first one is what is the context of the problem by that not what they're complaining about not what they're talking to me about their superficial complaints but what are the real motives involved in this person what seems to me to be their motives in sitting here with me talking to me and telling me this thing what is the context of the setting of this problem what is the context of this problem what's going on here why are they there and then the second question obviously who's involved you and I cannot solve a marital problem by talking to the wife alone but I have found the most difficult thing in dealing with marital problems is to get the man to come into the office he will not do it until she just says

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I am leaving tomorrow see the bags they're packed the children are ready to go and even that sometimes does not motivate him to come in it's extremely difficult

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I have found almost without exception there are a few exceptions but I would have no hesitance in saying between ninety -five to ninety -eight percent of the marital problem solving has been initiated by the wife she's the one who starts the movement of solving those problems the man doesn't believe he has any get her solved she got the problems not me get her straightened out her name is great around here and this seems to be an attitude that's quite prevalent and so is it the spouse marital problems sometimes or even personal problems sometimes it's an in -law sometimes it's in -law sometimes it's the boss he's the problem sometimes it's a friend now let me inject something we must find out the total number of people contributing to the problem

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I believe that good counseling solves a lot of marital problems pre marital counseling pre marital counseling

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I have the blessing of traveling all over the world and God has let me go in many many places and as I move about I find many couples that I meet and we just fall in love with one another it's just a beautiful God just blesses me with friendship with Christian people well many of them have daughters or sons so they'll say right like will you come and marry us had a girl in the state of Georgia said would you come and give us a

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Jewish Christian wedding so I take all my rabbinical clothes and they videotaped it and we had a

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Jewish Christian wedding little Hebrew here and there and I have that but I have some prerequisites and it solves a lot of problems and it's amazing how many people don't want you to marry them after they've initially said so one is

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I require that the girl spend a minimum of one hour with me alone in counseling that means

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I usually give her an hour and a half secondly he must come to me for a minimum of one hour of counseling thirdly her and her parents must come to me for counseling his parents and he come to me for counseling and then all of them together must come to me for counseling it is amazing how many problems you can solve in telling those parents that they are now losing a daughter she's their baby but she is now coming under his authority and when to suggest and when not to suggest when to advise and when not to advise then that young couple has to take some tapes that I have and they have to listen to seven hours of counseling marital discussions of marital things all the things in marriage understanding each other accepting each other as you are all of these things six hours of tapes they listen to there and another one on what is a wife basically dealing with the fact that a wife is primarily a responder she responds to the man she responds to his attitude she is basically respond to first Peter chapter 3 1 through 7 and that if that man isn't right with his wife verse 7 that God says his prayers are hindered and I believe that's true

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I believe if a man is not right with his wife that his prayers are hindered I believe that if a wife isn't right with her husband then

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I believe her prayers are hindered according to that scripture many others now if that is true and I believe it is do you know whose prayers

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God's answering in most churches the single people in the widows it's awesome to think about but how many husbands and wives do you know you'd say

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I'd like my marriage to be kind of like theirs no we say God forbid not that one no and it's not a matter of working at it yes we're all working at it but there are some obvious things that when you just look at them you can look at them my pastor said one time if you want to find if a man is really walking with the

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Lord his home watch his wife's face and you can see in her his spiritual leadership that scared me to death

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I don't go to church much I don't hang around over there let her go tell her to grin every time she sees the past tell her to smile when she sees the pastor you know do cartwheels do calisthenics do everything you know but it really is true it really is true and so find out who's involved but these are things that we do in in counseling with people before we will marry them and it's amazing they say well

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I don't go through all of that I had a young girl that I knew her parents I knew his parents they were members of another church and her mother called me and said will you talk to her and I said yes

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I will have her call me and so she called me she had been married 21 days 16 days after she was married she's ready to go home so we brought her in and began talking to her and finally got him in it took us a year and I and a good friend of mine married them

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I said I don't talk about him but how much time did you spend in premarital counseling she's about 25 minutes

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I said what he talked about he said compatibility I said was that it yeah most of their problems could have been solved in premarital counseling premarital counseling and we have a tremendous responsibility when we unite two families together you're not sticking a boy and a girl together we are uniting two complete family lines and saying

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God has dealt with my heart and I believe God has ordained this marriage and if you marry them you had better believe that God has ordained it or God holds me responsible for it because I am speaking for the

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Lord at that occasion that is awesome there's an advertisement in the

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Fort Worth Star Telegram our paper it says weddings performed chapel furnished minister available

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I will add the paper just call him up so I need to get married all you do is we get a blood test and come on over and he didn't care making that money you go to Las Vegas and you can they just roll them all the time chapels sure no problem at all and the tragedy is most ministers will do that I'm 17 you most minister will marry almost anyone he comes to them and yet somewhere down the line it'll show up it would show up and that's why divorce is what it is today and that's why families have so much of a difficult so what we're doing is trying to prevent these difficulties but if they occur then what you and I need to do is find out how many people are involved because if we're gonna deal with that problem you're gonna have to talk to every single one of those people you cannot solve in -law problems by basically talking to a man and his wife you've got to get the in -laws in there and share with them or the problem will recur it'll recur you want to cut that thing out now what environmental factors are contributing to this what's going on a person's not adapted to and therefore they are unhappy with their job they totally hate their job that's going to show up in their relationship he comes walking home at night he comes in opens the door and why says hello sweetheart get out of the way

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I'm tired on it goes on in you know of course she made me stand there with curlers hanging out one side lipstick off the other side we'll talk about that later you know her robe hanging off of her you know kid hanging on his arm and she's kicking the other kid all the way so he can get in the house and he comes home you know he's expecting the

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Garden of Eden and what contributes to his attitude what's going on here and these tensions will overflow into his relationships that if he's not contented or she's not contented in the environment and then also just what other conditions in general are impending upon this situation there could be personal limitations maybe this person is limited in certain areas of their life and yet the pressures upon them to try to say you know

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I found this out not every child can make A's in school and I can give you instant after instant after instant we had an instant of a 22 year old girl

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I can give you another 17 year old boy his mom and dad were school teachers and he had a sister she was straight

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A no problems I mean that she didn't have to study she just whipped it out and the pressure was on this boy to do the same thing that sister your sister makes

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A's you come in here with C's all the time but dad I tried it kid did he study and one day the mother came home from school and she saw his door closed and she knocked on the door he says mom please don't come in and she just that mother's heart you know mothers have it they call it whatever you want it's just an intuition that God gives mothers you know they become alarmed and she opened the door and this boy sitting in the bed with a 22 rifle sitting next to his head and he pulled the trigger she walked through the door the pressure was so great that mom and dad stood in front of the church and gave testimony said we drove our son to suicide by demanding of him those things he could not attain not if that you know why they have

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C's and D's because not everybody can make A's and D's if they can make them they ought to make them but each is individual and we need to determine where they are and encourage them to be the best that they can so applying pressure pushes a person beyond their ability and this creates problems within their relationships it just does and so we need to determine the complete setting of that particular problem and then we also need to be aware that in problem solving there are associations or things they have learned by conditioning not you cannot solve everything of course by saying it's seeing it may be but that may it may take them a while to get to that particular point but we learn so much by conditioning it is amazing to me for example in our churches how much we do in our churches that comes from Roman Catholic theology you know it's interesting to me there is a story that I like to use well the two of them to illustrate this particular point how did

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Noah number the animals going aboard the ark you recall that? I mean it's so simple I hate to even ask you remember how he numbered the animals going aboard the ark just tell me two by two do you know that's not in the

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Word of God that comes from reading one chapter without reading the next chapter what he said was take the unclean animals they're male and female two by two but the clean animals and all the fowls of the air will go aboard by the sevens they're male and female you see if they'd only take them two by two and let's say they had two sheep and they offered those two sheep for sacrifice you could never have sheep on the earth again no chance to breed they'd all been gone and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin the sacrifices would have run out because they were just certain animals that could be used for sacrifices so the unclean animals know what's the teaching that passage that he just now

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I know Dr. Seuss book up that they went two by two and we sing all the little stories but it just isn't in the scripture it's a half -truth a half -truth and what it is that God was preparing for the forgiveness of man's sins after the flood before the flood now

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I didn't say that to be critical of you I'm just saying you know what well Rocky that's what they told me who is they well you know

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I know we can never I like to use they because nobody ever pinned that down they told me it was two by two it comes from a lack of study another one

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I usually like to use even more than that one there was a story of a man in the scripture called

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Simon the Cyrenian and Simon the Cyrenian was a man whatever color he happens to be and he was standing along the roadside and Jesus of Nazareth was coming up and as Jesus of Nazareth was coming up the road there and of course he was going to carry the cross and you know the scripture you know what the story says that Jesus fell and for whatever reason he took the cross and made him carry the cross you look at me kind of strange are you familiar with that story would you raise your hand see you shouldn't have because it's not in the scripture nowhere in the

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Bible does it ever say Jesus fell not one time that is Roman Catholic theology that he fell four times he never fell one time it never says that in the word of God now again

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I trap you see I like to do that's just delightful to me you know but I only do it to alert us we have been conditioned about what people have told us the

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Bible says and many times we've not gone to find out ourselves what the scripture says so what you and I need to do is to check out everything that we're being told so what

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I'm simply saying is we are conditioned in many ways and many things we do is by this conditioning process so in counseling it's the same one of the things is that fears that grip the parents most normally will show up in their children and as they become young people most of the problems serious problems that we find in the lives of people now

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I'm talking about problems that they are not capable of solving in the normal process of dealing with those difficulties you trace them into the family lineage you will find those problems started when that person was 7 8 9 years of age almost without exception if you see

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God works through the family God gets a man right with himself he teaches his wife about the

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Lord or both of them become believers they teach their children their children go up and teach their children and God just works through families

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Satan does identically the same thing he gets a foothold in a family and he will work right through that family line just like God works through that family line and he'll keep that stronghold going until that stronghold is tore down until that foundation is collapsed until the invitations of those lives are canceled because sins are forgiven the consequences of sin continue on until they are stopped and they can be stopped so what

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I'm saying is the fears that show up many times in parents will show up in the children will show up in the children and so it is a condition we need to be aware of that traumatic experiences people nearly drown and that affects them all through their lives so just trust

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Jesus well that is true but we've got to get them to a point where they can trust Jesus we've got to get them to the point where they can walk in the

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Word of God and long roots will develop in that life that you've got to go back and find where that root started it can be some traumatic experience a mom could have been burned in a home a car accident could have occurred any kind of a traumatic experience and then sometimes of the association of a very harmless object something that has no value

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I mean it's just a harmless object itself with a frightening experience every time that person sees that object they go into hysterics they go into their hysterics that's why we always say never correct a child with an object that you normally use don't use your belt because every time they see that belt they will associate that with discipline

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I know what we mean like say you see that don't you boy you know that's why they do it down home they carry big ones down there you know the

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Cowboys they were in the big ones some of them get them a little prods in them you know they one fell

48:31

I know he uses a big wooden spoon it's just a big old wooden spoon doesn't use anything else and this little boy's been with Jason and we've been there home and this little boy they just let me say

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Jason don't do that we'll do it anyway so Jason there's a spoon in your future and boy little boy daddy come he straight he knows what that is you know use an item that is not associated with your person because this does bring an association and then of course dominating parents parents that smother the child not let that personality develop make every decision for that child do not give that child responsibilities and all those things create symptoms in that life dealing with security guilt and jealousy all those things will crop up although we think we are protecting the child from some of the things we experienced but they have to learn and then again of course there are other problems that we have to deal with in counseling physiological problems sometimes a person will come to you and the problem is physical for example there's one is very prominent endocrine dysfunction there are five basic symptoms that if a counselor is not very perceptive about this short attention span they just can't concentrate you know this can't concentrate on what you talked about poor memory poor coordination instability of their

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IQ and emotional instability those are five symptoms of endocrine dysfunction it's a physiological problem has nothing to do with spiritual has nothing to do with them loving the

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Lord not it is a physical problem that a medical doctor has to solve it's a chemical imbalance in their body and it has to be solved with that well if someone comes to us how do we get the picture how we gonna get a picture of what's going on there are basically five things that you can do that will give you the complete picture of that person sitting around you first of all you have to have sufficient interviews with that person not one you've got to have enough time of that person to uncover the basic causes because there never will be one cause in their life there will be several several basic causes that's giving this person the difficulty a person comes to you and they say

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I'm an alcoholic or I have problem drinking we say well now that's sin and what you need to do is get right with God and get that out of your life confess it and repent of it

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God will forgive him get it out of your life instead of saying to him why do you drink well

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I don't have any friends why don't you have any friends why do you feel like you don't have any friends what's going on do you have any meaningful relationship no why not that's his problem drinking is a symptom of his problem so he has to he has drinking but he also has no relationships that develops an independent spirit or that brings a depressed person who goes off into self -pity and brings a person who is a no value to himself his family the church

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God so he's nothing he's just there and it'll go further than that and finally he'll self -destruct if he keeps going so we want to have sufficient time also we must never become emotionally involved this is so difficult for a

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Christian we cannot become emotionally involved with that person no matter how much empathy we may have for them a sense towards them or feel towards them we must never become emotionally involved with that person for example a close friend comes to you or someone you're associated with comes to you and becomes sort of a counselee in that situation and they've lost a loved one one dear to their heart and they're suffering depression because that they're into a depressive attitude and and here they are it's very easy to become emotionally involved with that person they will sense it and it will frustrate them because they expect you to be strong they want to lean on you for a moment they want to draw some strength from you they didn't come to Jesus because he showed weakness they came to him because he showed strength he showed strength and this is what they need not that we don't have weaknesses but at that moment we don't become that involved and then also we must put forth every effort to effectively interview again all the parties that are involved in the problem if a man comes and says

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I'm having trouble with my children okay that means the wife is involved means the children are involved you've got to talk to each one of them you have to talk to all of them together and find out what the problems are sometimes men you can encourage them a man sits down I say all right have a conference table in your home we set them up with a conference table and say the man starts it

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Monday night's a good night to do it have Monday night or you can have any night but Monday night's a good one and you have a conference table and so the dad starts off and he looks at the wife and he says everybody has paper the man should have more than anyone else he'll need more and he looks at the wife and says would you share with me anything that I have done this week to offend you so he gets several pencils he begins to write he goes to the son son has dad done anything to offend you he writes daughter he goes down the line then he comes back and tells his wife will you forgive me for those things son will you forgive me for those things daughter will you forgive me of those things and then the wife goes through it and then the son goes through it and the daughter goes through it and then they openly verbalize their forgiveness of each other and will you pray for me that I can work on those things in my life and we set up that table for them and give them those projects to do and it's amazing you see we say we're open with one another but we really aren't we're afraid to really be open many times in our relationships with each other even in our family situation and so consequently we need to create that openness with one another where we are not threatened and where we do not have fear of retaliation but encouragement encouragement that we work together we all admit we got problems with each other yes and we want to work on those difficulties and then we put forth every effort to do so and to bring them all together and to discuss the problem and then we must never look at ourselves as a referee

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I have been a referee too many times and I assure you that you lose somebody in that referee situation something

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I say he's on their side he's on my side we had a couple that came and I can give you many of them and came and the man called me and he worked with a friend of ours and he called me said

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Rocky would you be available to speak with this person he told me some of the problems I said yes and so I said have him call me so he called me and I made an appointment he came in and he says now

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I'm not sure if my wife will come in or not why I said because I made the appointment she usually makes all the appointments for us and I've made this one and you know him and so therefore she's going to think you're on my side and I said well let's not make any you know any judgments until I talk with her would you have her call me about coming in he said well she told me

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I can make the appointment if I wanted to I said all right would you ever come in this afternoon I gave him a time so she came in that afternoon and I saw that defensiveness there but once I convinced her that I was not referee you know

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I didn't know him or her all I want to do is help them bring their life back together and of course usually

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I'm sorry to say there are exceptions but usually the woman is more spiritual than the man simply because she has more time and the woman's more spiritually oriented than the man that's why

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Satan went to Eve not Adam a woman can be led to the Lord quicker than a man but a woman is more susceptible to being deceived than a man you know that most of your cults are women most of the membership of your tangent

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Christian groups are women you take the women out of them they'll die tonight most of them many of them are even founded with a man out in front but there's a strong woman personality behind them now the reason

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I say that is simply because a woman is usually the one that you can that will be more honest with you than the man will she'll just lay it out in front of you she'll just tell you but the guy you know well as I see the problem and then he'll go in you know and he'll go on with you laughing eyes not it tell him be honest come on tell him tell him what you told me yeah he told me you didn't care what he said you wasn't gonna do it you know and it well that what exactly

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I said what I really meant was and and then off he goes so you have to deal with those but the man's out working all day he doesn't have time to read his

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Bible he doesn't have time to watch TV he doesn't have time to he doesn't have time to go to the to the morning

57:05

Bible study on Tuesday he doesn't have those days I didn't work and of course today men women and children and the dog carries the paper out everybody works in the family today to make it going so we have to deal with that but never be a referee in a situation and so when they come and they demand that you give them a decision wife says now here's what

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I think ought to be done what do you think about that I turned the husband I said what do you think about that no she said no no wait a minute wait a minute whoa you tell me she's wanting to make a decision for her and he wants you to make a decision for him and then

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I'll not belabor the point but you and I all know that an effective Christian counselor can never have a disregard for the clear

57:43

Word of God when pastors now have been talking some briefly in the session and I'm confident you'll not mind me mentioning this usually when

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I talk about counseling and I talk about a strong stand on God's Word I will usually be asked two questions one is do you have any children when

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I start talking about teenagers and I start my children secondly have you ever been a pastor when

58:08

I start talking about the pastor first of all about children most of the leading gynecologists in the world have never been pregnant secondly the two men that have influenced your life more than any other two men in the world and in human history neither of them were married and neither had children

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Jesus Christ the Apostle Paul you do not learn the Christian life by experience that's the world's way we learn the

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Christian life by the Word of God experience either confirms or challenges my heart in relation to God's Word in relation to God's Word so I say that simply to say this

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I believe that in married people we can solve a lot of problems it is impossible for me to reconcile with the

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Word of God that a minister can ever marry a person who is not a believer number one it cannot be done

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God's blessings cannot be on it you can't get it on we're under no obligation to do so and they must know our stand we don't do it hatefully we just say

59:13

I'm sorry God's conviction is we can't do this there are those who hold to even the point that a person who is divorced for whatever reasons they will not perform that marriage ceremony for them the people know it everyone around them knows it and so they have no problem with this let me know this is my conviction this is what

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God will not allow me to do you must let me honor what God wants me to do in my heart I can't do what you want me to do now not everyone's gonna ever understand everything you do but what

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I'm saying is what the Word of God teaches you and me whether we're a counselor deacon pastor it does not matter the

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Word of God has to be stood upon whether it is popular or not and that brings the blessings of God on our life so we can never there'll be situations in counseling you'll say this is an exception

01:00:03

I mean you know this could be that one exception this could be now anything can bring that about anything can bring that about depends on who it is number one

01:00:14

I mean if this guy gives $5 ,000 a month to the church I mean you know this I can I mean you know I can cultivate him a little bit and you know

01:00:22

I know a church that a man owned half the town most of them in the city worked for him and he came on join that church and he said

01:00:30

I don't want to join on Sunday I want to join on Wednesday night what many people there so that's it okay well that you join on Wednesday night this man began to put $2 ,000 a month into the church and designated by the herald to the pastor will it be exciting designated for a pastor but he got he got everything he ever wanted

01:00:53

I mean all that man understand in the business meeting and say what he felt like should be done it was done immediately no questions which violated of course the clear teaching of the

01:01:02

Word of God the Word of God and it brought about a tremendous power struggle in that and so we have a man who comes and he comes in he says to you

01:01:13

I've been talking with my church and I understand they have this deacon program and I feel like I I'd like to be a deacon in the church he says well may

01:01:24

I ask you about this sure well tell me do you you control your family yes

01:01:30

I do you read the scripture in your home yes you'd control your children yeah you're not giving the filthy liquor

01:01:36

I mean you're not money man are you no no no well are you the husband one wife have you been married previously and divorced well yes

01:01:46

I'm sorry I could not vote for you what do you mean

01:01:52

I love the Lord I understand you do you love the Lord and it doesn't mean that you could not hold other jobs but you see it doesn't mean that you're less a person it's just in this office of the pastor and this office of the deacon

01:02:05

God has set standards so that they would be above any questioning in the community it's

01:02:11

God's testimony it doesn't mean that listen there's so many things you can do let me share with you some of the things you can do in the body of Christ that God can use you so we must stand on God's Word where it is popular or not and if we share it up people they will understand that particular situation now most of the problems you and I are going to face of course are going to be in the marital area now there are 10 basic goals in marriage counseling 10 basic goals in marriage counseling as best

01:02:44

I can understand them many of these are familiar to us we want to help these people number one to be able to express and to release their feelings strong feelings that they've got to sit with them and get them to the point where they are not threatened and they have no fear to say what they really think had this lady one time

01:03:09

I was talking to this couple I was off in a meeting and they asked me could I talk to them and I said I'd be glad to and I met in the pastor's study and and we would talk to him and we were sitting there and and I said well what do you she said can

01:03:20

I say whatever I think I said you sure can she said he needs a bath he stinks

01:03:26

I said pardon me she said he stinks all the time he don't never bathe he doesn't use aftershave he doesn't use anything

01:03:33

I buy him most anything he said well uh -huh like that you know and you'd see him doing this he ain't getting his irons together he embarrassed him to death but after we talked for a while he had a few about her but it was really amazing when they left at the freedom that had come because you have to bring those in the you don't don't leave them sit there and say well get out of my office he does

01:03:58

I don't want him you know this brings it into perspective but to let them speak what's in their heart and get it out what's really bothering if you don't they'll deal with symptoms they'll deal with the symptoms and then to help them in understanding that their difficulties and their adjustments are going to take them some time they've been 10 15 20 years getting to where they are in their marriage and they're not going to solve it overnight and you're not going to solve it overnight even though you may have many answers you cannot solve their problems everybody wants the magic wand to tap them in the head there are none available it takes time and then to begin to help them understand themselves most people heard this you tell you young people but mom dad you don't understand you'd every cult in the world uses that you don't understand the proof of the positive eating you don't know what makes you think

01:04:52

I don't understand I was a kid once well yeah your thing was smoking cigarettes behind the barn they do better things than that today you know

01:05:00

I guess but they don't understand you don't understand so we have to help people understand

01:05:06

I used to have I say you don't even understand yourself who you are where you're going what are you doing what's your purpose oh you don't understand that so we have to get them some understanding of what they are what they are doing here who they are their personality what

01:05:21

God demands of them what God expects of them help them to understand themselves and to help them deal with that understanding and then help them understand their mate he's a male we're going to talk in a few moments basically about just a few basic problems in the sexual encounters in marriage life most of this can be solved in premarital counseling most men can tell you

01:05:48

I mean they can just tell you immediately the batting averages of half of the

01:05:53

Toronto baseball team are the mantra they tell you they tell you who the leading hitter is how many home runs they got they can tell you all the hockey players boy they can lay it out they talk to you about the committee but the

01:06:05

Canadian Cup they tell you about it they can talk to you about the Canadian Olympics they can tell you all those things you say what size dress does your wife wear huh what size shoes do your wife huh well man

01:06:18

I don't you know that stuff like that well your wife's undergarments I mean what are those do you don't tell me but do you know the size man what

01:06:25

I don't know that stuff for oh well don't you ever buy your wife a dress I mean haven't you ever gone out and done a little shopping for your wife man

01:06:33

I don't do all that stuff I'll enter this you know now I can identify with that my wife is here and she'll tell you one of the things

01:06:40

I detest walking through a shopping center you don't have any money to buy anything just go walking you don't just go through a shopping center what for look in the windows what for I can't buy anything makes me cut it

01:06:52

I I wouldn't can't get it I'll go stroll through a store spend all day walking through the stores just looking and pride is an amazing thing in the life of man going to grocery store horror of horrors pick everybody's going to be on the house they look at you maybe somebody you know and you're with your wife you're pushing the buggy along and they reach out and pick a can up and over there and say 27 cents huh here's one over here an off -brand it's 24 get to 27 get

01:07:19

Del Monte put that up I get get the biggie put it up on front don't put one of those off brands in there somebody will see that go all through you know my soul you know to to help them understand who this person is most men do not have the slightest concept in their relationship intimate with their wife and most women have a better understanding of a man that women have trouble understanding you know the erotic curve the erotic curve is that a man is so aggressive that he just thinks about an intimate relationship with his wife sexually and that's exactly what is on his mind that's why he can beat her in the living room hit her with a lamp kick her while she's down and then she happens to make the mistake of going into the bedroom to wipe her blood off her jaw put a band -aid over her eye and here he comes with a gleam in his eye you know here he comes the reason he is dear people is for the simple it's because his erotic curve and then after the initial encounter here he is he's gone in they've had their encounter and then he's ready to go to sleep his wife is sitting up here somewhere on a high plane because her plane is up slow she stays up there and she comes down slow but a man his erotic curve in his mind and psychologically emotionally he builds quickly and he drops quickly and that little fact right there is one of the biggest problems in marriages today is because of a lack of understanding of the basic anatomy and the basic makeup of the physical nature of a male and a female it is unbelievable how many problems you just draw that out for them on there and say man

01:09:04

I didn't know that I didn't understand that so we try to help them understand their mate help them understand what we're doing in this counseling situation what are we trying to do here what do we want to do understand the counseling situation and then bring an understanding of the roles that they are assuming husband wife what does that mean to you mother and father what does that mean to you what do you think the responsibilities of a father are what do you think the responsibilities of a mother are well what do you think the responsibilities of a husband

01:09:36

I'll tell you one of them he is to rule his house all men love

01:09:42

Ephesians chapter 5 they love verse 22 wives submit yourselves to your husband as unto the

01:09:57

Lord or men can quote that can't they yeah they like it the only problem that is the word submit is not in the

01:10:04

Greek New Testament it isn't even in there but ladies you would wish it was because it's harder the other way it says wives unto your husband as unto the

01:10:14

Lord that's the way the Greek reads but you see there is a verse before that says submitting yourselves one to another and then 525 says husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it a man will do anything in his power to see that his wife is contented physically psychologically emotionally socially and spiritually no matter what it cost him he may have to sell his bowling ball he may have to give up his fishing rods he may have to give up his camper he may he will give up everything he has to see that that wife is contented if he's gonna do it the way

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Christ did because Christ gave up everything he had to provide for the church now the

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Bible says that Adam was first formed in Eve therefore a wife cannot do verse 21 or 22 until the man first does 25 until the man really convinces that wife that he will give up anything in his life for her then she'll submit it doesn't make any difference wives who have trouble submitting it's because that man isn't loving the way

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God says love you know he loves you know we know he does sweetheart you love me may

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I ask you a question if you're a man here today not to embarrass you you're a few in number when was the last time that you just looked at your wife other than in the heat of passion and said to her

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I love you I love you or I thank you sit down at a meal french fries and hamburgers we had that junk

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Tuesday night we had that Friday night instead of thank you you know or that was really a nice meal a good meal to be complimentary to understand the roles that each other has and then make sure in the counseling situation if you're dealing with a husband or wife or both make sure that we try to bring them to a complete surrender to the

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Lordship of Jesus Christ bring them under the Lordship of Christ that they understand that whatever decisions they are making is between them and he not them and you it's between them and the

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Lord and the Lord and then arrange for them a program that will promote spiritual maturity in them give them some positive things to do that will help them reach that program get them if you've got the disciple and you can do that get them into some

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Bible studies navigators have excellent Bible studies others have excellent Bible study material get them into a program because you cannot do it all for them and then find some way to motivate them to do what you want them to do now there are some basic questions quickly in closing that you can ask them

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I just have some basic ones that I thought I would present to you that you ask yourself to help understand them one is do they accuse each other unjustly are their accusations true you know what she says to you or what he says to you about the other one is that a true accusation do they provoke each other do they provoke each other some provoke each other just by being in the same room but there are a lot of little habits now

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I don't have any I've never had any habits that provoked anyone I I'm confident that I never have but there was one thing that I used to do when

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I was quite small that my dad you know chewing chewing gum and I used to pop it incessantly you know

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I'm gonna make it like a band almost just you know and my dad it just destroyed him he just destroyed him and he taught me very quickly that I was provoking him to anger when

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I did those things and so consequently he taught me ways not to do that and they were you know they were stern enough that I didn't do it and and I stopped doing it but little things as well as large things can provoke one another and so we want to make sure if they do why are they and then do they act out their irritations do they become sulky do they pout sit around well

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I won't talk to him all day I won't fix him a meal tonight I'll let him sleep on the couch sleep in the bathtub that's what

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I'll do with him that'll solve his problem yeah and and it's amazing do they become anxious is there anxiety you've heard it said and it is true most women who have nervous difficulties who have emotional upheavals who are married if you could get that man to be the spiritual leader of his home and get him to be the spiritual leader ninety -five to ninety -eight percent of his wife's problems would dissipate almost automatically they would just go because he is the source of most of her problems but yet she thinks she is now if you don't think that's true just go home talk to your wife and just say listen

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I got some things I'll ask you and get you a bunch of paper and pencils how long does it take them to make up how long does it take them to get back together

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I mean you know if they're not talking to one another how long does it take them to get talking to one another who does it first does she do it first all the time is she the one who comes says

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I'm sorry forgive me I shouldn't have done that I when I hit you with that iron skillet

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I listen I I knew when I did it I shouldn't have I knew it I saw a cartoon that so exemplifies this in one of the newspapers as I've traveled about I don't recall where I saw it but it showed a man and his wife is laying in bed quite a large lady and she had curlers all in her hair and you know she looked like you know the death itself was lying there and she had a pistol that she had brought out from under the pillow and she's holding it up like that and he's standing over with a hatchet and said oops did

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I wake you darling you know like this and I thought that is so difficult so many ways of a lot of things that are going on in in principle and then how have these people reconcile their differences in the past you know how they solve their problems in the past when they've had problems each other how'd they solve them how did they reconcile those sometimes they're under a good thing that's already working in their life but they've forgotten about how to reconcile these so we can do that and then we share with them if we can get them to to just think about some areas we give them some factors that we feel will help them form that basic structure that we're looking for some factors that will form that basic structure in that marriage each partner must become willing to accept the appropriate role of his or her own sex let the mother be the mother and the father be the father let him be husband and let her be one now that doesn't mean you can't help one another

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I've asked people many times we have a little thing that we do call the five secrets to the happy married life and God has used it in a lot of marvelous ways and one things

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I just in the conversations I used to ask how many of you men would just go into the kitchen sometimes just say get out of the kitchen sweetheart just let me take care of this just just move out

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I want to do the dishes I was in there after you picked her up off the floor and gave mouth -to -mouth resuscitation and got her down and and sat her down and you went is

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I'm gonna do the dishes I'm gonna do the laundry I'm usually in our area you know there are a lot of ranchers and things and it's always somebody well now brother

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Rocky I'll tell you if I ever did that in my home my wife would run me out of that kitchen cause she don't like me to come in there

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I said probably because she knows you don't want to be in there but if she knows you want to be in there she'll let you in there try her try her and so we have to let them know their own role and it doesn't mean they can't help one another in these and accept the other person's role and then they must understand the desirability of good health what it takes for one to be healthy may not take it for the other one to be healthy but the desirability of both of them working at being healthy and this is something we're we're working at trying to work diets and trying to work

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I'm supposed to walk 30 minutes a day and some of my docs said just walk 30 minutes a day five days a week and and don't eat a lot of beef and pork and eat baked chicken baked fish you won't ever have any problems and when

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I think about 30 minutes a day and I just it seems like it takes my whole afternoon or 30 minutes that that'd be the whole day

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I'd throw my afternoon away so I don't do it you know and so I'm working on that but and then we have to help them understand that their marriage cannot be 50 -50 it has to be 100 % effort on each part a companionship a friendship a fellowship as well as a husband and wife all those things have to come together in one they must have they must be willing to see that and that family has to work as a unit mom and dad cannot pull that family together without the help of those young people those young people must be taught their responsibilities of making that family work what their role is how they fit into that role it is not mother and dad dictating to them all the time help them understand their responsibilities and what it means to that family how they contribute to that family let them have the devotion sometime let them lead in prayer let them pick out where they want to go on your family night when you have a family night in your home the one night maybe the husband picks out where everybody's gonna go one night maybe the wife picks out where she wants everybody to go when

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I let the kids figure out what they want to do maybe they just want a string popcorn or something I don't know but let them decide let them have a part in the decision -making process of the home they are personalities they are people and it's amazing how they can contribute so let them develop their personalities and abilities along with the mom and dad and then we must remember that children children can be a blessing but they do not automatically bring a blessing into the home they don't automatically bring happiness into the home you recall

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Manasseh in the Bible Hezekiah goodly King Hezekiah only one thing wrong in his life he was a godly king and God came to him and spoke to his heart and Hezekiah said but God I don't want to die and God said it's okay

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Hezekiah you've had a wonderful life you've served me faithfully you've brought in the temple you've done everything right you've worked everything you kept the worship going and so Hezekiah come on I'm gonna take you on home oh

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God I don't want to die Hezekiah trust me God I don't want to die God said all right

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Hezekiah I'm gonna let you know that I know what's best I'm gonna show you I'm gonna give you 15 years so God gave

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Hezekiah 15 years and he had a son named Manasseh who became a devil himself he tore down everything his godly father had built and from Israel the nation of Israel today has never recovered from what

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Manasseh did they are still suffering from what that boy did simply because his daddy said I don't want to die that boy could have been a blessing but he wasn't one he wasn't one so they don't automatically bring happiness into a home

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I've had so many people come and they say you know we're having so many problems and I said but you're expecting a child how pregnant are you she said well a month and a half

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I think well with all of these kind of problems do you think it's wise to have just well we talked to our parents about it and they told us probably what we need was a baby in the family that solve our problem give us some responsibilities so bless your heart you know now that is that sounds like that's over but that's that is prevalent that's prevalent it's sort of like the old wives fable that goes around because a young girl gets pregnant out of wedlock they ought to go ahead and marry solve their problem no

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I didn't solve the problem that just creates problems creates problems and so they can be but they don't automatically bring it so let me close this session and then we'll pick it up tomorrow with some more particular marital difficulties that we look at that spiritual conversion

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I call it the eternal triangle the eternal triangle there are other triangles but we're not talking about those spiritual conversion and we try to lead these people to see that their salvation and their dedicated

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Christian life is the essentiality of their marriage it has to be that which brings about a good marriage there is no other way a committed surrendered

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Christian life not church life church is not serving the

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Lord in its entirety I usually ask them this question I said what do you believe that God's greatest demand upon you is do you believe it's giving money to the church no do you believe it's praying no you believe it's reading the

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Bible no you believe it's going to church no you believe it's serving the Lord no no the greatest demand that God ever places on any person is that that person obey him immediately instant obedience is so difficult to attain we obey him but not you see because if he tells me to do something

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I got to figure out okay now how much time is it gonna take me to do that where have I got to go to do it how much money is it gonna cost me that may be first what's it gonna cost me to get there and then who's gonna be involved in this now if I do that they're not gonna like me over there if I do that I'm going somewhere and I come

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I figure it all out God's got somebody else on the way to do it and I've done this the blessing of being used and then finally about two days later

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I said Lord I'm ready God's already do what well I'm ready to go on over there and we're gonna do something else instant obedience is what

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God wants from all of his children and so the glue that holds a marriage together is not salvation it is deep mature spirituality spirituality that is what brings a family really together when that husband looks at his wife and says

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Lord I thank you that you've given me as we've heard testimony this morning a godly wife a godly wife

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I tell people and I mean it and I don't mean to embarrass my wife and it may embarrass her because she doesn't like me to say it but I am what

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I am by the grace of God and my wife almost everything that I have learned about relationships and about godly wisdom

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I have learned from her God has used her in my life to challenge me to teach me and to keep before me the things that God wants me to do because I don't always see them

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I'm not always looking for them I'd like to tell you that I'm always searching to do the things of Lord yeah

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I'm always so busy working for God I never learned what the work of God is many times and so for her to look at her husband your wife or some man's wife to look at him and say

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I am grateful that God has given me a godly husband knowing that both are under the

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Lordship of Christ that's the glue that ties a marriage together not things and not places but a person

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Jesus Christ as Lord of that marriage and if he's

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Lord you'll never fear each other you'll never be threatened with each other and you won't be afraid to go to your wife or go to your husband and say here's a problem that's bothering me

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I need to talk to you about it it's bothering me it may not be related to them it's just something that's bothering you you're not afraid to say

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I got a problem I need growth or I'm convicted about this or I don't feel like serving

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God today and you know that there's a support there God is on the way to putting that marriage what it ought to be and a marriage counselor be their

01:26:42

Christian layman or whatever is in a very unique situation a very unique situation to bring a couple or a man woman into that position as to where God can bless them and bless that home and your church will never be any stronger than its families it never will be it never

01:27:02

God's blessed you with a good godly group of men but I you know I'm in churches that don't have many men it's the ladies that have kept the church open it's the ladies that do all the work all the work but we thank the

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Lord that he's raising up some godly men in these days he's raising up God let's pray together father sometimes the subject of counseling with people and problems can be so depressing sometimes it becomes so tedious to our minds

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Lord I recognize the nature of this material sometimes may even seem irrelevant but if we walk this earth long enough

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I am convinced that every Christian is going to be presented with an opportunity in the personality of another individual where we're going to have that opportunity to touch their life to give them direction advice suggestions guidance by using principles from your word father if we are not aware of what brought them to that place and if we are not aware of what's causing them to react or respond in the way that they do then it's extremely possible that I'll not know the appropriate portion of the

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Holy Scriptures to guide me in helping them come to the point as to where they can receive that which you have for them in their life so father

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I pray that in all of us you would create a sensitivity a patience an understanding a discernment a willingness to just be available to you that you would protect us from those people who would come to us that you do not desire to be in our path some come unknowingly and some the enemy would send keep a wall around us our father we only want that in our lives that comes from the very hand of God through the cross of our

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Lord Jesus Christ by the agency of the Holy Spirit only that which would please you is what we want in our lives only that which glorifies thee and magnifies thy son the

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Lord Jesus father thank you for these folks thank you for their homes their lives for their personalities for their callings for their families for their children father thank you for the privilege of coming together in the name of Christ basing our lives upon the foundation of your word and for that blessed privilege of reaching out beyond ourselves and touching people who so desperately need the love of God through Christ Jesus dwelling strong within their hearts by your marvelous spirit

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God thank you for this day what our ears have heard this morning thank you for what we've already heard in the evenings

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I pray Lord that even tonight you would prepare our hearts especially bring those folks who've not come

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Lord bring those who are contemplating coming creating them the desire to come as father