Tape 3 - Counseling Seminar

Judgmental Attitudes That Block Counseling

So consequently we get this and we become judgmental. We begin to judge this person and we must be very careful of that not realizing that under varying circumstances any individual may succumb and may come into a crisis and fall under that crisis.

And they begin to jeopardize what they know to be the truth and they're not able to activate that truth. And a person can become very superior in their attitude quite judgmental. And what that attitude does.

It becomes a barrier between the counselor and the counselee. It just becomes a wall and that wall is very difficult to break down. And so we need to establish rapport and the only way we can do is let person know.

We're not judging that person. We're not judgmental. The Word of God will judge them. We don't worry about that most time. They've already judged themselves and that's part of their problem. They're so down on themselves they can't see light.

So it's a negative attitude one of superiority and judgmentalness. So the second thought is that let's suppose a person comes. This happened in a meeting that I was in and it happened to be a prophecy meeting that I was in and a young man came in and he wasn't dressed like everyone else.

He didn't have the appearance of everyone else. He had a guitar on his back and he smelled like if a bar of life boy had been given to him he would have gone into a coronary. I mean it just it was horrible and you could just sniff him.

He came in to the back of the congregation and he sat on the back immediately. Three ladies got up on the row. He was sitting on. They moved the other side. I mean you could hear this noise when he sat down.

It sound like vacuum cleaners. You could hear these three ladies you know just like this and they got up and moved and that young man he sat and he looked for a moment and he got up long-haired sandals.

He got up and began to walk out. And one of the men I just noticed this but didn't know the situation till later. But I noticed one of the men stopped him at the door and I saw them talking. I saw the man escorting him on out and they were talking outside.

You just see them. And then they got out of my vision. I found out later from the man that young boy was hitchhiking to the west coast. He had heard some singing and had stood out there listening to the singing of the people.

And then as I began to speak he just came in to see what it was all about. He wasn't hearing me speak. He just came in to see what speaking was about. And he told this man that he this man began to try to witness to him.

He said he didn't have any purpose in life. He had no goal. He was just going to California. And he said. And I heard you people singing some songs that I had heard when I was a child he said. I came in to hear was only he says you people don't believe what you say or what you see he said.

I sat down he said I know I'm dirty and I know I don't look like everyone else does he said. But those three ladies I'm sure have sung the same songs and they really believe what you say. And they believe they believe what you say.

But they got up and left and moved the other side. They don't care about me or anyone else. And he says I don't want anything you have to say. And he left now. I don't know whether he would have received or not but I know that that attitude is prevalent in Christianity.

If they don't look like us dress like us and act like us and talk like us. God doesn't really have anything for them. What would we do if some guy came in and staggered down the aisle in the middle of the service and just collapsed in the row next to you and fell on you smelling like a brewery.

What would you do. You know put the side of the cross on him. Get him away from me. Call the deacons. Escort him out. Pastor stop the sermon horrified. The first book that I read as a young Christian a young Jewish boy 21 years of age was called in his steps by Charles Sheldon.

And that same incident basically occurred. A man came down that book. I have never forgotten it in all my life. Never forgotten. And it has influenced I am where I go. Someone's read that book everywhere.

Tremendous book. So what I'm saying is you and I can get an attitude of being judgmental and resentful. And they will read this resentment. Now resentment is just a form of hatred. Resentment is a mild form of hatred.

And we deal with demonic problems. We discover very quickly that the enemy considers it to be hatred. And that's going to be communicated to this prospective person who's come to us and an opportunity to share the gospel.

The opportunity to encourage a life is missed because they watch our eyes. And they see us looking at those clothes with disdain. They see us looking at this and and they read our countenance. And we've become immediately judgmental because they aren't dressed as we think they ought to be dressed at that particular moment without even understanding the situation.

Without understanding the situation. The street people know well. And so many times a person comes in for counseling. The same attitude prevails when we know that their friends are ungodly people. And we immediately begin.

So you don't need to go here. You don't need to go there. You don't need to go here. And we reject their friends immediately without even talking to them very much. And when we reject their friends we reject them.

And therefore again an opportunity to share the gospel. I'm just being about being judgmental about being superior or holier than thou in our attitude and building up a resentment towards them. Or the even though we don't agree with them we must get them to a point where they can receive what we're saying without giving them that attitude immediately as they sit down in front of us.

And so it's a negative attitude. A man and wife can approach another negative attitude. And this has happened so many times. A man and his wife comes in. They have a daughter. They say we've got a problem with her.

Well what's the problem here. Appointments been set and so forth. You've gone through all the original things. And they say well she just will not observe our curfew. We tell her to be in at 11 o 'clock every night.

She comes in at 1. She comes in half the time smelling like alcohol. We don't know where she's been. She won't tell us. And all of these things go on. She stays out late at night. We don't know what she's doing or where she comes from.

So we turn to the teenager and ask a couple of pertinent questions. And immediately of course you sense there's rebellion. Immediately we sense that there's this rebellious attitude and great hostility.

And so we turn to the parents and say. Well I'll tell you right now if you had disciplined this girl when she was a child she wouldn't be in that condition. Well they obviously know that they already know that wrong wrong thing to say.

And then let's go the opposite extreme. Many parents have done the best they know how to do. And that child still is sitting there in hostility and rebellion. Now discipline is a relative word. What do we mean by discipline.

Discipline do we mean correction. Yeah. Do we mean spare the rod spoil a child. Yes I think of discipline. There was a young lady you know we don't keep our words with children. Do we. If you do that again I'm gonna get you.

If you do that again I'm gonna. If you do that again dad will get you. If you do that again dad will get you. And when he gets through I will get you. I told you five times don't do that again. And on we go.

And those children know don't they that registers in their mind. A young mother in the northern part of the United States couldn't go anywhere. And she had a little five-year-old child snow. This kid was just real rambunctious and she was trying to do something in the living room.

And she heard all these pots and pans. Winter. And this kid sitting around the middle forward and open the cabinet pots and pans everywhere just everywhere. She puts them back in. It says no. No no. Don't close them back up.

She goes back in there. Two or three minutes later I hear you go back in there. There he is again. She said I'll tell you what if you do that again. I'm gonna throw you out in the snow. It's what I'm gonna do with you.

Put some back in there. You know kid wild-eyed. You don't buy. You don't know. Then register with him. She thought. Cabinet back open. Here they come again and she walks toward that. And then she remembered she remembered if I tell a kid I'm gonna do something and don't do it.

She's walked in and picked that kid up and walked through the window open. They live on the first floor and out that window that kid went about three feet of snow. Can you imagine little kid mine sailing out there.

He's like going off the Empire State Building. Now I don't advocate that another incident that we have a friend who's in the medical profession. His cousin had a little boy his name was Lee. Now Lee was one of these kids that bites.

You know he thinks he's an alligator or something. He loves to bite people. And you know I mean when he bites he bites. It's like a snake. He just grabs hold on and you won't turn loose. And there's a bruise and and some just deep lacerations and teeth mark.

I mean on their arms. They could never break him on biting. But they sent him to visit a farm where the grandmother lived. Wise dear old grandmother not much worldly education but wise in the ways of children.

And all the children were playing out there. The neighborhood kids had come to the other farm. There were nine or ten kids out there. Now Lee was about 11 years of age and so Lee bits up. I didn't somebody.

She heard all this turmoil and she goes out and said what's the problem said leave bit me. Look here and here's this big mark. Let's get them. She said Lee I told you about that. I've told you not to bite anybody and I've told you the next time I did.

And what she told she said if you have to do it again I'm gonna hang you. So that grandmother grabbed Lee by the hand and she went out in the barn and she came out with a rope and she got her loose and made her noose and she where y 'all where you going.

So we're gonna hang Lee and boy this little kid you know he's a real guy. He's going along and grandma's got him alone. She's going out there find a big old tree out there in the middle of the farm. She goes out there and throws that rope up over that tree and she bites that loose and puts it around a little kids neck and just snugs him up a little bit and he's standing there.

You know just let him know the ropes there she says to each one of you eight or nine children said stand up. Y 'all just come on up here and kiss Lee goodbye. Little kids come on in so long Lee they'll hug him and kiss him goodbye Lee.

And then Lee gets you know he gets a liking at about the third kiss. It's kind of fun. She just snugs him up a little bit tightens that rope and Lee's standing on his tiptoes. Little kid 11 years of age and each one boy.

And as gets told last she starts kind of putting where he's really standing on those toes you know. And they think it's there and he figures maybe that's a lady maybe she is gonna hang me. And each one of those little kids have tears just flowing so long.

Lee goodbye Lee. You know she gets through. Boy. She just starts tightening that thing up a little bit and she says now Lee I'll give you one more opportunity if you'll give grandmother your word forever that you'll never bite anybody.

And she just tightens it a little bit. Grandmother won't hang you to this day that boy has never ever. It's hard to get him to eat food now. I don't know if that's the wisest way to go about it or not.

But discipline is a relative term. But the Bible does authorize discipline. Discipline. I was sharing with the ladies who do so wonderful over the preparing the sandwiches and things and the chili and so forth and we were just talking about.

We have a family that are very close friends of my wife and I and I'm not going to but I want to share with you about discipline at this point because we may not later on get into teenagers and young people and it's important that I do get this information to you.

This family is a veterinarian and he and his wife. He has four children. He has a little boy Paul. Paul's about eight or nine. He has a daughter Kelly and Kelly's about 11 and he has a little young boy named Brad.

Brad's 14 I think. And then Jennifer is 16. Now this dad has spent time with these children each morning they're up and they're into God's Word and he gives them scriptures to memorize that week. They have projects that they do together.

He takes the daughter out sometimes on Thursday night and she's kind of his date. And then he takes the boy out and the dad does things. They do projects together. They'll take a Saturday as a family.

They'll find widows in the community and they'll just go down and say may we cut your yard for you. Can we trim your. They said well how much is. Oh it's no charge. We do this as a family and all of them wife and all of them.

They come down and they cut somebody's yard trim the hedges as just a family project once a month the wife is sent out of that house on Saturday morning early and those children met dad completely cleaned that house wash clothes clean windows vacuum.

They do everything. And they know they're not perfect. They have problems that they're working on. But it's unbelievable these children. When these children do something wrong they have a rule. If one kid does something and the other one doesn't tell him if he doesn't confess to it then the others don't tell.

They all get corrected. Now these children come up and ask for correction says dad I need a correction. Well how many licks do you think you need. Say well you know I have a strong will and the first four or five don't faze me very much.

So you probably have to give me ten. You say all right son go in the room. I'll be there in a moment. He goes in he gives him ten. These kids ask for it and he'll come out and he'll say you're not going to get any supper tonight.

Now you know what time mother has dinner. You right in the yard. You knew what time to be in here and you go to your room and also this teenage daughter's just looking. He says do you think dad's unfair about this.

Yes sir. Well what do you think about this. And well you know we had company my wife and I are sitting there and they really didn't know for sure. You know and we had company here and she gave all of her reasons and he said all right.

He said okay I'll accept that. He says you were able to sit and go ahead sit down and I'll not correct you in this this way. But from now we don't go back to the room anymore. He said from now we go back to the licks.

We go back to the corrections. These kids will ask him. Now we had some friends who came from another state that had two daughters who were kind of rebellious and this one they were having a little trouble with her and so I said why don't I invite this family over and just let these kids share.

So they came over that evening and so I asked this young boy I said Brad may I ask you some questions about your family was sitting in the living room. He said sure and he looks over his dad's. You know.

And his dad said you answer any question. Honestly don't you don't you worry about what mother and dad said you just answer honestly. So I asked him all these things and I said well Brad why do you want these corrections.

Why do you go and ask for them. He said I have a strong will and if I don't get corrections then I'll get out of balance in my life now he has a real temper. You know at school somebody says something he just solves it that way he just pops them.

But then he's got to come on tell his dad because if he doesn't the others will and they'll know. You know because they're going to because they don't want corrections. Yes they were Brad all right. And then sometimes if they've all been involved he'll say Brad how many corrections do you want.

And he'll say well now then you know Paul is very sensitive so he should probably only get two. Two usually does him good. And Kelly you know she's a sweet young girl. She probably would need more than two.

Jennifer's a teenager. You know you might could send her in a room or something but me dad you know how my will is and you know how my temper is. And so dad I probably need ten. And his dad say okay and they decide.

And so we were sitting there and these little girls are eyes this big saying these kids go ask for it you know. And so to close that off he said Brad mom's dead. He says Brad who had you rather correct you dad or mother.

He said old dad I would have thought he said mother you know cuz she's you know she wasn't. She's real tender-hearted. But dad you know he can do it. I thought it said oh mother you know she's easy said dad.

He said why son. He said well dad when when dad corrects us he comes to us he talks to us about it. We determine how many corrections we get in a corrections or licks usually. And he says he determines how many we get.

Then he tells us he loves us and he tells us why he's correcting us and what he wants to happen out of that correction. When he gets through he tells us he loves us again. And then he just forgets it.

It's all over. But mother doesn't do that. Mother comes and she tells us why she's correcting us. And she tells us what she wants out of it. And then she corrects us. She tells us she loves us but she doesn't forget about it.

She talks about it all day long. She just keeps on talking about it. And she provokes us. And the Bible says that you're not provoke your children to anger. And she does. And she says boy that is right.

I am a provoker. I really am. And she's. I'm in conviction about that. I say all that to say this that corrections discipline does work because it's God's ordained way. And if we do it in love and if we do it with the purposes that God says not as a penal thing but as discipline.

Discipling discipling train up a child. You have to make the child. You never teach a child a lie. They just lie naturally. You never teach a child a steal. They steal. Now you're taking a child in a five and dime store or department store.

You come outside and they've got something in both hands. Where did you get that. They just picked it up because it looked nice. They don't care. They just do it. You have to teach them to tell the truth and teach them not to steal.

And the only way that can be done is discipline has to be put in there. And God has cushioned them and built them in such a way that it is not going to hurt them. It hurts their will. Their will has to be broken.

You do not break their spirit. But if you don't break that will that will will never succumb to God without extreme trials into their life. The will has to be broken and channeled. The spirit remains intact always and ever.

So we talk about discipline. So whenever we have a mother and daughter our mother and father who brings a daughter in and it's easy to say well if you'd given her the proper discipline that's quite obvious.

But that's not going to solve the problem. And it is true that some parents contribute to the delinquency of the child. I said well I did all that I could. So well did you read scripture with them. No.

Did you pray with them. No. It's interesting that in the home the dads have time for the Civitan rotary. They have time for all these things. But it's the mother who has the responsibility of teaching those children spiritual matters.

When it's the father's responsibility it's the father's responsibility because he is the head of the home. He is the head of the home. The man is the head of the woman as God's the head of Christ in Christ the head of the man.

So this is something that we have to work at. But we try to develop this in them and we do not use criticism of one or the other. We let that young lady know that we're not taking the parents side. And we let those parents know that we're not taking that child side or their side that we're there to look at those problems.

And then quickly before I break an individual comes to the counselor another negative attitude and they begin to relate problems that existed in their life for years. These problems have gone on and gone on and a natural response to me.

Well why in the world hasn't somebody helped this person. I mean they've been to Sunday school they've been to church they've done all of these things. Why hasn't somebody helped them. Well it is quite possible if someone had tried to help them they may not have received the counsel anyway.

Maybe someone did try to but they just were not at that point. Maybe they were not at the point of where they were even looking for help. They may not have seen the need. They may not have seen the need.

Now I can promise you that it's extremely possible to be in the ministry and even be blinded to these things as I shared with you. I don't share it boastingly at all. It's embarrassing to say. But out of the years that we've been in the ministry and my wife sitting here and she's prayed for me concerning it.

I don't say that I have attained anything but for the first time in my life at least I have some clear vision that I had to sit down one night well as a night and a half and call all across the United States of America asking forgiveness from pastors and deacons and people that I had exemplified nothing but pride and self-righteousness and resentment in front of them as I went out ministering in the Lord ministering the word.

It's extremely possible to be completely blinded by pride and fill with self without realizing it without realizing it. And God brings a crisis into the life to make that a realization. Then we don't attain anything overnight.

But at least we can work on it. No we can see it we can see it. So here comes a person. They have all kinds of problems and difficulties in their life. So maybe God has just brought this person to the point right now where they can understand now what you'd want to tell them any other time in their life they weren't ready for not making it was.

How long they've been in church. We've seen deacons. There are deacons 65 years of age came down the aisle. We had a pastor been pastoring a church 10 years said I've never been saved. We had a young man in the state of Texas that preached a hundred and eighty something revival meetings before he got saved.

Now he's pastoring one of the largest churches in the state of Texas. It's possible all these things. So let's don't just take him. You see and say well you should have gotten help a long time ago. You've heard all these messages.

You've been in church. You've been in Sanskrit. No he may just now be at that point. So we don't want to develop that attitude. We want to have this opportunity and make it a tremendous opportunity in order to help this person and to be a great blessing to their particular life.

And then the last one that we will mention to you at this point is that we find a person who comes in and maybe they don't have a lot of money. Maybe they are a transient person. Maybe they're a person that's on the move and they have no roots anywhere.

And they come to you for assistance. They knock on your door. They come to the church. Or what have you most. Usually their experiences are not going to be the norm. Their experiences are gonna be so varied they're gonna be such a complex entity.

You can't take those little cliches any longer. You can't just take the normal things you would say to a church member. You can't take those things. You're saying someone in your community and use them.

Here is a person that has traveled. They have gone through situations that are horrible that you don't even want to think about many times don't even want those thoughts in your mind if possible. But yet they've got to be dealt with.

They've got to be helped. And so here they are. And they may even have a non-christian background and may even be a non-believer. And they may have all kinds of injuries within their heart. Their soul may be ailing their mind may be agonized and all of those things.

But if you cannot accept that person as a person you'll never be able to reach them. We must accept people as people no matter what they do. And we'll talk about some of the more serious areas of that in another time.

Setting a Comfortable Counseling Sequence

And so what we do is as we move through these things. And we'll stop with the fifth one is that set a comfortable sequence. Set a comfortable sequence in these things of negative attitudes. After we go through these negative attitudes we find out we don't want those in our lives.

Then you and I come to this counseling situation. Set something that is comfortable with you in dealing with these people. Each counselee moves at his own speed. You cannot say I will spend one day with this person.

I will spend one week with this person. I will spend one month with this person. It cannot be determined. You may have solved exactly the same problem within one hour with one person. And it may take you three months to solve that same problem in the life of another person.

No two people are alike. It's about seven minutes after let me proceed. I said we'll go one more but we'll take our break at 315. You can develop your own pattern. You can develop your own patterns. I want us to move into the area if I can if possible.

And I don't know that we can but I want to get at least if in our next session to some of the marital areas. But you can set up your own pattern of dealing with individual people. You cannot follow mine.

I cannot follow yours. You cannot follow any. You can get all the books on counseling. But if you try to do exactly as those books say that they do it will not work for you because you are a different personality and your particular setting is completely different than theirs.

But you can provide a place pick you out a place if you're going to do it in your home then stabilize it with say my living room is the area that I'm going to use to share my heart with people not the DM not the kitchen.

But I'm going to and commit that to the Lord. Commit that space to the Lord for them and make it as conducive to a fruitful and uninterrupted discussion as you possibly can. But it can be any particular again as we say as we said a few moments ago an appropriate place.

And then encourage them to talk freely. Let them know. They can say to you whatever they want to say. Don't put any restrictions on them when you first meet them as to what they're going to share with you.

Now if you begin lecturing them if you begin preaching them a sermon you're going to develop negative attitudes with them. That is not why they've come. They sometimes have already heard a sermon. They sometimes know the lectures and we don't want to do that.

And then as you talk to them reflect on what they're saying to you and restate it to them. Restate it to them in your own words. And they'll say no that's not what I meant. You say well would you explain to me what you meant because that's what I understood.

You say well yeah I said that. But here's what I really mean. And they'll go ahead and they'll clarify that for you and let them speak. Because if they relate something to you without you clarifying it with them it is of no value if they just tell you something and if it's not clarified it will really be of no value.

They've just spoken and you help them care that. But you need to clarify it with them. And then don't register any surprise at anything they tell you. If they sit there and say I just shot a police officer last night and I assaulted two kids and threw one the river.

You grab your heart and you don't throw your hand up and back away from them. Don't register any surprise because if you go to council people you'll hear it all eventually. You will hear it all eventually.

And just listen to them verbally or non-verbally. Don't register any at all and any information they give you. Don't raise your eyebrows and don't look at them with disdain. Be as objective and try to become as poker-faced as you can with them concerning these particular things.

And then refrain as much as possible from censoring or judging what they are saying. Censoring or judging what they're saying to you. Assuming again this judgmental attitude produces such a negative thing with them that they don't feel free to share with you or they won't come back.

And maybe the Lord wants them to come back and to you and it presents a difficulty. And then encourage them to suggest to you or to discuss with you ways that they believe are possible to solve their difficulties.

So well now how would you solve that. I mean if you were me and I was telling you all of this what would you think. I mean how would you suggest to me and dealing with that problem. They may stammer a little bit but you can help them along that and refrain it is always wise.

Refrain from giving them the solution to their problem. If you tell them to do it and they go out and do it because you've told them to do it they're not doing it on the proper motivation they have to do.

You get them to do what you want them to do but let God direct them in doing that. People want you to have the magic wand and they want you to give them the solution to their problem instantly. And they'll go out and act upon it.

There are people in churches today who are acting their Christian life based upon what somebody told them and the Holy Spirit has nothing to do it. And that brings failure somewhere down in the Christian life.

It builds no discipline. You know God could have made you and me perfect immediately but he hasn't chosen to do that. And Christian character comes through trials and troubles and tribulations and the development and Christian maturity takes time and discipline time and discipline.

So we want to allow them the same opportunities of growth that we expect the Lord to give us and want the Lord to give us. And then of course maintain a confidential attitude and anything they're saying to you let them sense that attitude that what they're saying to you is between you and them all.

Right. Let's go ahead and take our break and then we'll come back. And I'd like to show you quickly how to determine what a problem is. How do you determine what their problem is. And then some association as to how they got to where they are at that particular time.

And then we'll move towards talking about some marital difficulties. One of the leading Christian psychologists in North America puts out a publication called psychology for living and it's a tremendous publication.

He's the founder and director of the Rosemead. That's R-O-S-E-M-E-A-D Graduate School of Psychology and it's in Rosemead California. I can't give you right off the top of my head the address to it but you can get it.

And if you have difficulty getting it you could just give your name and address maybe a list of them to the pastor or just have me to write a note down and I'll send it back to the church. I'd be the easiest way the address back but you can you can get it.

It's he has his course his PhD in psychiatry and his purpose and goal is is to fill the country at least where he's working there. He does come into Canada and does lecturing. He lectures all over the world and is to fill the areas with Christian men in the area of counseling and women.

And he and his wife and his son they all have their graduate degrees in the area. It is probably one of the best. They also send little booklets out if you're on their mailing list you automatically get little booklets that they put out all the time.

I was telling my brother I got one on procrastination and I read the first chapter and thought it was about Tuesday. I said well I probably have time to read that until Monday so I just put it on my desk and to this day.

I don't think I've ever finished that booklet and but they had them on varying subjects. And then you can get back issues and back booklets. That's probably one of the best publications that I'm aware of on counseling.

The manager foundation in Topeka Kansas does have resource material that you can get. And of course it is if I don't know if you're familiar with the Mayo Clinic but it is the Mayo Clinic of psychiatric care in our country.

It is renowned around the world for psychiatric care. They have apartments and you just come and stay there for the year. Your family can come stay with you. And it's in apartments and condos and townhouses and things like this.

It's a very lovely setting and very successful. And people come from all over the world to observe and to learn and to study there just off the top of my head. Those are two. Let me think about it some more.