October 30, 2019 Show with Dr. Jeffrey Lee Stevenson on “Reaching Spanish-Speaking Cultures with the Gospel of Sovereign Grace in Countries Where Biblically Faithful Christianity Has Plateaued, Declined or Has Become Secularized”

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Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth.

We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio.

Wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 30th day of October

2019 and I'm very enthusiastic to have on the program

Dr. Jeffrey Lee Stevenson who is a first -time guest here on iron sharpens iron radio.

He is a ruling elder at Roslyn Presbyterian Church in Roslyn Washington.

A lot of my listeners who are from Long Island Immediately were probably wondering why I

was interviewing somebody from Roslyn Presbyterian Church on Long Island when is no doubt extremely liberal.

But this is a church a congregation within the Evangelical Presbyterian Church Denomination

and my guest today is dr. Jeffrey Lee Stevenson is founder and president of

Proyecto nihemias and today we are going to be addressing a theme near and

dear to my heart Reaching Spanish -speaking cultures with the gospel of sovereign grace in countries where

biblically faithful Christianity has plateaued Declined or has become secularized

and the reason that This theme is near and dear to my heart.

Is that my precious late wife Julie?

Was born in Puerto Rico and her family that

Remained there obviously most of those folks In her family do not

speak English or speak it very poorly.

And although this is not the area Puerto Rico Where our guest today has a focus

of ministry It still is near and dear to my heart because of the Spanish language and the need for

Spanish -speaking people to come to Christ As people of all cultures and languages need to but it's my honor and privilege to

welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron sharpens iron radio.

Dr. Jeffrey Lee Stevenson.

Well, it's great to have you on and first of all before we Go to our theme

today, there's a couple of things we need to do.

First of all, I want you to let our listeners know something about Roslyn Presbyterian Church in Roslyn, Washington.

By the way, brother, but I can I interrupt you for a second for some reason you are getting very muffled.

I don't know if you're moving your mouth away from a Microphone or telephone or whatever you're using but

you're getting very muffled there and you were not okay.

We were not before we went on the air.

All right, let's let's try that again, is that better.

Sounds better to me.

Okay, so Roslyn, Washington is a town of some 1 ,000

people located about an hour and a half each

say 1 ,000.

I suspect that that number is actually far more than that at this point simply because We

are close enough to Seattle that believe it or not.

A lot of people are moving over from the west side from Seattle and living in Roslyn and

commuting back and forth to work every day, so We're still a small town

with a small town feel but there are plenty of if you

remember the TV series Northern Exposure that was supposed to have been filmed

in Sicily, Alaska.

It was actually not.

So a lot of the

props are still around in town and it's a big town.

Yeah, we're about an hour and a half Seattle still up

in the Cascade Mountains.

So we are surrounded by trees.

We get a lot of snow in the wintertime a lot of Outdoor activities as well.

It's very much a mountain community.

The church itself.

We're the only Evangelical Church in town that said there are any

number of local churches in a nearby that we have

a corner of the market on the

market

taking on more and more of a reformed identity both in terms of

increasingly recognizably reformed in worship, but

praise God for that and.

What do you?

Take into consideration.

As an explanation as to why you're becoming more and more reformed.

Yes.

Yeah, I mean ultimately we know that the answer to that is God's sovereignty.

Northwest and again in eastern, Washington a recognizably reformed church.

Is not all that easy to find so I did not get this started.

There was a fellow that was in the pulpit here.

Expository consecutive gospel.

The congregation

come back line by line.

Oh my wife and I

took a

lot of

places

even

in

Latin America when you

purchase a lot of times.

They really great and

I

understand

that

your congregation

is a

fairly.

Recent.

Inductee if you will into the denomination known as the Evangelical Presbyterian

Church or EPC.

Can you tell us about that denomination?

Yeah, so.

Well

since

you're

a new.

Inductee to that denomination.

You might not know a friend of mine who you should get to know.

His name is Mitch Tepper.

He is a member of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church denomination in the Pittsburgh area, and he is also

a North American representative.

For.

Christian witness to Israel, which is the reformed ministry and outreach to the

Jewish people.

He's a great guy.

I'm going to give our listeners our email address right now if they want to join us on the air with a question of your Own, it's Chris Orns in a gmail

.com.

Chris a are n z e n a gmail .com and please as always give us your first name.

At least your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside of the good old USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

One of the things that we do here Dr. Stevenson is that whenever we have a

first -time guest on iron Sherpins iron radio?

Especially if we have a full two -hour timeframe to interview that person and If that person

is indeed a Christian because there are rare occasions when I do interview non -christians, but for the most part I interview

Bible -believing brothers and sisters in Christ.

I have them when they are first -time guests give a summary of their salvation testimony

including the kind of religious atmosphere and in which they were raised if any and How

our sovereign Lord raised up providential circumstances in their lives that drew them to himself and saved

them.

And so I'd like you to do that now.

Okay, and how long do I have for this?

Hi, you could basically go on as long as you wish we could always have you back to discuss everything else.

So it's a very long.

It's very long story.

Anyway, I was born on a Sunday morning.

And My parents were and

still are part of a Church of Christ in the local town of Ellensburg.

So I was I I went to church with them.

Until the time I became a teenager and I basically Started winning the fights on

Sunday morning.

As to why I didn't want to go to but I'll let you say my parents my parents

laid a very important early foundation.

By taking me to church as a child are not actually

going to the AM service.

But I for some reason I really enjoyed the PM service on Sunday.

And in fact the Church of Christ was the very first Fellowship

of Believers that I ever regularly attended after Or should I say?

I didn't officially leave the Roman Catholic Church at that time.

I was born and raised Roman Catholic and my brother Bob Had become a born -again believer and joined a

Church of Christ congregation and he used to drag me there On occasion and I can

tell you even as an unbeliever at the time.

I.

Love and still do the acapella worship being

a lot of those hymns that I grew up.

Well, anyway when I was 18 Shortly after I turned 18 to

what I version or authentic faith and interestingly.

It was somebody who was part of an American

Baptist Church and after remember this is the mid -80s.

This is 1986.

It was an American Baptist Church very much influenced by

the vineyard and John Wimber and power evangelism and that.

That movement which was really at its peak in the mid -80s and so I

was a I was a part of that church and I.

Washington University and while I was in college, I was part of a Chi Alpha.

I also grew Chi Alpha is affiliated with the Ascension of God.

He I think his theory was that he had four years and his

emphasis was clearly world mission.

So the way I described this is it wasn't a matter of if you were going into missions.

It was when what country and since most of us were single.

It would probably be a good idea to figure out with whom to go into missions.

Caught up in national missions

and center I was

listening

to

Keith

Green

and

his

calls to

two

undergraduate

degrees.

Oh, yeah

I'm thinking we

rocked my boat

around the nation

after that

moment

up

until

about I

came back

to the

night.

By the way, it was the Anglican or is the Anglican Church of Chile a 39 articles a group

real it is.

Yeah,

and I and

I would great.

Well, we do have

listeners who

are Sydney Anglicans.

Including One of my friends who is also who has also been a guest on iron sharpens iron

radio David old Ould and those are quite a fine

and biblically faithful group of folks typically very low church

Anglican and very very Calvinistic.

And so now if you could Start to let us

know about the forming of Proyecto nihemias and

Tell it.

Well, first of all, why don't you tell us about this ministry?

Yeah, okay.

So if I went back to Chile after Being in Chile for an initial five years from 1990

into 90 95 so went back to Chile in 2007 in what's called

a tent making capacity.

So I was working.

For a US.

University that had operations literally around the world and I was directing their study abroad program

was stationed in.

I had I went

back to Chile in 2007.

I had been was then it's still functioning.

But it was crown financial ministries under the leadership of Howard Gates.

Howard later left crown and started Compass finances.

God when I first went to Chile at while I was working for this thing

I developed from the small group

at Howard Dayton had the

reason I mentioned that is that

Chile like a lot of countries of the seven cones probably put Argentina Category as

well.

There are significant sectors of Chile that are Financially

in what is called a little income economy.

So there's there's there's a certain amount of wealth being generated in Chile.

But the levels of personal indebtedness under

unsustainable.

Very easy.

It's a very easy access to consumer credit.

I was doing that sort of para church ministry ministry at the same time that I was working for

University that in part is where the idea of Proyecto Nehemiah

Nehemiah's came from so Nehemiah Nehemiah project Nehemiah was blessed the

people of God in parts because Of the position that had secular government and he

was given favor By the secular rulers in order to travel and be a

blessing the

ministry got started create

a Similar experience like the one that I had had listening to Alistair Begg 6 ,000

miles away or however long that was in Chile.

So, you know Chris as you know, this podcast I'm assuming is free of charge.

There are any number of resources in English that you can access and

be informed.

You can learn about reformed theology.

You can hear there is just a dearth of that sort of

Resource that that experience of having

access the Alistair Begg truth podcast.

Not only that but at that time Seminary had all of their online

Seminary courses all the audio courses free of charge available on

iTunes you here I'm working in a tent

making capacity and I want in order

to make this I was able to access free of charge largely

free of charge as a native English speaker I want to start to make more and more of those resources

Available in Spanish.

Our initial ministry partner in that regard was Ligonier Ministries in

Orlando, Florida and I put in place first of all a

One person at a time he

eventually worked full -time.

But anyway, how we got started is Ligonier had and still has a series of booklets that

are called the crucial questions 25 maybe

30 of them now did.

I approached John Cobb at Ligonier Ministries in Orlando and John, you know

this resource that you have made available free of charge in English.

There's not even something remotely similar to this available in Spanish so how about we work

together to make those resources available in Spanish, so we did the

the initial professional translation of Those resources and they are now

free of charge on Kindle and also available

In print through Poema Publicaciones.

We don't we don't handle the distribution of those, but we've had similar Partnerships

not only with Ligonier the

coalition and we've done other done translation work with other like -minded

ministries and that's where our energies are directed when a

Like -minded ministry wants to collaborate in order to take their content into

Professional Spanish translation and I really want to emphasize that professional

take on Publishing projects of our own.

So we take a lot of crossway titles into Spanish translation.

And again a lot of these resources we are able to make available either free of charge or at cost.

We're working with Latimer Trust as well.

That's an Anglican in the UK.

So in the case of those resources were making them available in Spanish and those are now being used in the Anglican Seminary.

But that's how we got started.

And again, we we are in the process of creating a standalone app.

So all of our digital content will be available in a standalone app.

In order in part to mirror that that initial experience that really got projected.

Yes, maybe it started which was creating these resources.

First of all making them available, but also We really have a heart for people that are involved

in my vocational ministry.

It's still the case in Latin America, especially amongst Pentecostal pastors that most of

them are bivocational and If you're even if you're talking

about church leaders elders of the formed congregations the time that they have for

theological study is Minimal, so we try to make our content available in

digital format.

So we can take advantage of playwrights and things like that.

We would like to take more and more of our contact content into audio book as well again Just to

to maximize those 25 minute commute times or for some people an hour and a half if they're living in the

City, you know just trying

to making use being good stewards of the time that they do have available

for theological.

I already know someone who is probably going to be very interested in getting to know you

Joe Jackowitz who is the founder of first love radio who live streams

many wonderful theologically reformed broadcasts including iron chirping Zion radio.

He is also the founder of first love publications and everything They bring into print

is absolutely free and they travel all over the world giving away mountains of

free books, especially to pastors and Their website is first love

publications org first love publications that org.

But I will make sure that you and Joe Jackowitz become acquainted with each other because I think that you could

Be of great help to one another.

Wonderful, that sounds great and.

We are going to our first break right now.

If anybody wants to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris arms in a gmail

.com.

Chris arms in a gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous.

If your question involves a personal private matter, don't go away.

We'll be right back with more of proyecto.

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We are now back with our guest today.

Our guest is a dr. Jeffrey Lee Stevenson and Not only

Is he a ruling elder and soon -to -be pastor at Roslyn Presbyterian Church in

Roslyn, Washington? but he is also the founder

and president of pro -yekto Nehemiah's and If you care to join us on the

air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And before we go to one of our listener questions Dr. Stevenson

If you could tell us Who are these Spanish -speaking?

People and where are these Spanish -speaking cultures that you and your ministry have determined?

Have plateaued or declined in regard to their growth and even have become secularized.

Yeah.

So, first of all, let me let me just mention that there really is a

an awakening in terms of interest and embracing reform theology in Latin

America and that is throughout the whole continent from

Mexico Puerto Rico all the way down to the tip of Chile.

Yeah, just let me take my hat off to certain ministries that are

trying to make quality resources available in Spanish.

Any number of Publishing houses, but but again Ligonier ministries

Positively aggressive investing a lot of resources into making their content

available in Spanish.

And again, there are any number of people

engaged in the same sort of work that we're doing gospel.

Columbia is one that I've heard of the.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah, the publishing house

Dedicated to the same thing.

So when I talk about secularization, I'm really Speaking specifically

to my own previous content in what is the context of what's called the Southern Cone.

So this is specifically Chile Argentina and Uruguay, so

when I went to Chile in the early 90s, this really was a time I was involved in YWAM as I

mentioned earlier.

This was a time where we were we were engaged in open -air preaching and people would stop and listen they would

engage in Conversation.

These were the these were years of the well -documented numerical growth in

Protestant Christianity in evangelical Christianity in Latin America now in the case of Chile

experience over My tenure in Chile from 1990 until

today.

I try to go back every year at least once.

It has experienced.

Marked.

Economic growth and within the whole academic study of

secularization one of the questions that people tend to discuss is

is there a one -to -one correlation with economic progress and

Secularization and people come down on different sides of that question.

So I think like the United States you at the same time you

see alternative Spiritualities things like new age and things like that.

So you're seeing some of that in Chile as well but what is

happening is in the case of Chile the Data that people are collecting

when they are do you

profess or what religion?

Do you adhere to?

The numbers Evangelical

the numbers that self -report Roman

Catholic are declining by about 2 Each year, so if you do

the math, there's a there's a downward curve.

They are a downward line but the category that is growing the most

is the Religiously unaffiliated or what is known in the academic literature as the

not people who are in effect.

They would self -describe Agnostic or atheist.

In the case of Chile that person is going down by 2 that

person and

again I've

met churches

and

oftentimes

it

really

does

happen

again I'm

sure that you're

very

they're

trying to do is

to make our resources,

you know

before

I

forget.

And I hope to repeat this towards the end of the program, but I don't want to forget about your 50 -50 campaign.

Can you please explain that?

Yeah, so when I was in Chile, I Was in a

Wonderful

in

Chile

my

day

which

here.

Well, we'll

have

you repeat

that

toward the end

of our

program

now.

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we're going to our midway break right now.

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stick around as our advertisers and Also subsequently that we will stick around

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So write down their information and also send in questions to our guests today.

Jeffrey Lee Stevenson at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

God willing.

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I'm Dr. Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love

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I'm James White of Alvin and Megan ministries and my friend Chris Arnson and I are excited to be attending another g3 conference

together in Atlanta, Georgia Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th on a theme that

is vitally important to all of us worship matters.

I'll be on the speaking lineup with Eric Thomas Joel Beakey Paul washer Steve Lawson Phil Johnson

Tom Askel Bodhi Balcombe and the world -renowned preacher teacher and author John MacArthur.

A Fascinating new addition to the roster is Kosti Hinn nephew of the notorious false

teacher Benny Hinn Kosti has repented the word -faith heresies of his youth and is now a reformed

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I'm so grateful to our Sovereign God that while manning an exhibitors booth for iron sharpens iron a major Bible

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Hi, I'm buzz Taylor frequent co -host with Chris Arnson on iron sharpens iron radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS.

Which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service?

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Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and remember folks you can always

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Actually That's incorrect that you can't always call that number if you want to actually speak to somebody.

You can only call that number Monday through Friday between 10 a .m. And 4 30 p .m. Eastern Time.

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And one more Suggestion since we have two book related advertisers

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whatever you are Purchasing and get that in stock quickly and get it into your hands quickly.

So remember go to solid dash ground -books calm make a long list of titles that you want to purchase.

Then go to CVBBS .com and actually order them there before we return to our interview today with

Jeffrey Lee Stevenson.

We just have a couple of very important Announcements to make regarding events that I hope you

attend with me.

First of all this weekend Friday and Saturday November 1st and 2nd I will be God

willing attending the doctrines of grace conference at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New

York.

This will feature speakers Who are pastors in different parts of Long Island who are

all members of the Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship?

These are pastors who firmly believe in the doctrines of sovereign grace which have been

nicknamed Calvinism and reformed theology.

All of these men who are speaking at the conference are committed to those teachings and the different

sessions include Topics such as God's sovereignty and the five points of Calvinism.

There's a there's a session on total depravity one on unconditional election.

There's one on limited atonement.

There's one perseverance of the Saints.

There's also a session on is Calvinism biblical and there will be a Q &A roundtable with the speakers.

Where were those in the audience can participate if you want to join me there this Friday and Saturday November 1st and 2nd

I hope reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York.

Get more details at reformed rookie calm reformed rookie calm that's

reformed our Ok, I e .com and you can get also get directions at hope reformed

li .net.

That's the website for hope reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island.

Hope reformed li for Long Island net and I hope to see you there.

Oh, yeah, you could also call six three one six nine six fifty seven eleven six three one six nine six

five seven one one.

If you prefer calling to find out directions and other details then in December Which

is coming up right around the corner a Thursday and Friday December 19th and 20th I will be God willing

in attendance at the Foundations Conference in Manhattan right in the heart of the Christmas season.

There's no better place in the planet Earth as far as I'm concerned to spend at least a part of the Christmas

season than New York City and That's when the Foundations Conference will be held in Manhattan

December 19th and 20th Thursday and Friday.

This is a conference of sermon audio calm.

And this is a conference also only for men in ministry leadership, but they have a very small venue they can

only Fit less than 200 people.

So they have restricted their attendance to Men in ministry leadership.

So the speakers include dr. Stephen J Lawson Paul Washer Reverend Jeff Thomas Reverend Armin Tomassian

Richard Caldwell jr.

And Andrew Quigley.

If you'd like to join me there Thursday and Friday December 19th and 20th in New York City at the Foundations Conference go to the Foundations

conference calm the Foundations conference calm then coming up in January from Thursday, January

16th through Saturday, January 18th I will be God willing once again attending the g3

conference the conference that stands for gospel grace and glory.

This is held every year at the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia a suburb of

Atlanta.

And this January's theme is worship matters.

And I am always so thrilled to man an exhibitors booth at this conference.

This will be my fourth year in a row Manning and exhibitors booth for iron sharpens iron radio at the g3 conference.

The speakers include once again, we have dr. Stephen J Lawson.

We have dr. James R. White of alpha and Omega ministries.

We have Phil Johnson the executive director of John MacArthur's ministry grace to

you Phil Johnson is the most frequently interviewed guest in the history of iron sharpens iron radio.

We have my friend Todd Friel of wretched TV and wretched radio whose ads you hear on this program

every day.

We have Dr. Tom Askell the the executive director of founders

ministries, which is the Calvinistic ministry in the Southern Baptist Convention Stephen J Lawson the

president of Reformation Bible College the college founded by the late RC Sproul and Ligonier ministries

Kosti Hinn the nephew of the notorious heretic and charlatan Benny Hinn and Kosti has

renounced his uncle and his heresies and has become a Reformed Baptist pastor and

a cessationist and there are many more on this lineup.

And of course, you've heard the news I'm sure that the latest edition is John MacArthur himself.

That makes the conference worthwhile.

Just on that important fact, I would go if it was only dr. MacArthur speaking if you want to join me

there Thursday through Saturday January 16th through the 18th in.

The.

College Park, Georgia area at the Georgia International Convention Center right near the Atlanta Airport.

Go to g3 conference comm.

G3 conference comm.

I strongly urge you if you have a business or a parachurch organization I strongly urge you to

register also for an exhibitors booth.

Just like I will be manning because they are they always have every year over 5 ,000 people there.

So with the addition of John MacArthur on the lineup, I think they're gonna have over 6 ,000 people making an exhibitors booth

even more of a wise business decision or financial decision to register

for one to represent your business or your parachurch organization.

So you can register to attend and also for an exhibitors booth at g3 conference comm.

G3 conference comm.

Please tell them that you heard about this conference from Chris Arns and an iron trip and Zion radio last but not least.

If you love my show, you don't want it to disappear.

Please go to iron trip and Zion radio comm click support then click click to donate now.

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When you click support at iron trip and Zion radio comm an address will appear where you can mail that check.

Folks we are facing a very scary month of November.

We really do urgently need your financial support.

We used to have a fairly Generous and healthy stream steady stream of donations

coming in every month.

They have dwindled down to a trickle.

I'm not saying that the Individuals donating are not very generous.

Sometimes we get very large donations.

But the number of people doing that has dwindled down to a trickle.

A handful of faithful and loyal listeners to this program.

Please if you haven't yet donated our interprets on radio and you listen to the show every day and you love it

and you can Afford to donate to us, please donate to us at iron trip and Zion radio comm click support

then click click to donate now.

You can also advertise with this as long as whatever it is.

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Just send an email to Chris Arns in a gmail .com and put advertising in a subject line.

If you are not a member of a Bible believing church and you're not even prayerfully looking for one you are living in rebellion

against God.

Please rectify that situation.

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world and I've already helped quite a number of people.

Find churches near where they live.

So if you are one of those folks that needs help finding a church.

Please send me an email to Chris Arns in a gmail .com.

Chris Arns in a gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

Oh, I forgot to tell you as I do every day try to remember to tell you every day.

Please never when donating to iron trip and Zion radio.

Please never siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church in order to support us.

Never do that.

Never put your family in financial jeopardy.

In order to give to iron trip and Zion radio if you are having a very difficult time making ends meet.

Please don't ever do that.

Those two things are commands of scripture to provide for your church in your family.

But although providing for iron trip and Zion radio is not a command of scripture.

If you love the show, you don't want it to go away and you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those Two commands

then please I'm urging you.

Don't let us go off the air.

Please send in donations as frequently as you can and be as generous as you can.

Go to iron sharpens iron radio .com click support then click click to donate now.

If you'd like to join us now with a question for our guest Jeffrey Lee Stevenson.

Our email address is Chris Arns in a gmail .com.

Chris Arns in a gmail .com.

We are discussing reaching Spanish -speaking cultures with the gospel of sovereign grace and countries where biblically faithful

Christianity has plateaued declined or has become secularized.

That's Chris Arns in a gmail .com.

And we have a listener Who has a question for you?

Dr. Stevenson and This is a listener who providentially as it turns out has

also been a guest on this program.

We have flip Michaels with a question for you.

Flip Michaels has written a wonderful book five half

truths addressing the most common misconceptions of Christianity and in fact

Brother Michaels has also given us the good news.

Fairly recently that this book is now also a vowel available in Spanish.

So.

Flip Michaels has a question, which is do you see any discernment issues?

Unique to the Spanish -speaking culture and he offers In

parentheses something that you've already mentioned Pentecostal word -of -faith outreaches, etc.

Yeah, I mean, I think that any.

To answer the question.

Oh, yeah, of course.

Yeah, I think that anybody that is doing ministry from a reform perspective in Latin America has to

decide how they are going to approach our

brothers and sisters in the Pentecostal tradition, obviously my take on this

is that we need to winsomely

Interact winsomely engage with and

Congregations.

Now again, I say that because I I ran around Pentecostal circles in the early 90s

and the zeal the enthusiasm for the Lord That existed

and still exists in many circles if you can you know, I don't think the correct word is

writing that in but if you can give the Theological underpinnings

for People that you know, I I'm gonna say in the

majority of cases Love the Lord and you have to realize that

most of these these Pastors are bivocational they are

working Full -time jobs and in Chile that's not 40 hours a week.

That's 45 hours a week plus commuted times.

So a lot of these men are pastoring churches at the same time that they are involved in.

A.

Entry -level positions that don't pay well.

And in my own experience if we can get Resources

into these men's hands, I'm being specifically as pastors.

They take them they run with them.

They end up showing up in their sermons again, the the the doctrines of

grace If we believe that they are in fact what the Bible teaches.

And we can get resources into People that are coming from a Pentecostal tradition.

With these resources into the hands that I think we have to trust that The Holy Spirit will make

use of those resources and speak to the hearts and minds Of the people that read them again.

It's important to remember that in many contexts in Latin America, especially in rural context

The Pentecostal Church may be the only local church that people have within 20 -mile 20 -mile

radius.

And and yes

Probably doctrinal error at work in many of these congregations.

But the reason is Oftentimes that the pastors have not

had that they love the

Lord.

We I think we also have to trust

in my own experience very much limited to Chile

a lot of this

Anglican community.

But

this

guy

is

preaching.

Yeah,

actually

it was.

Flip Michaels question.

And let

me I have whenever I hear a question from a

listener who also happens to be the pastor of a biblically faithful Church, I like to plug that church as

often as possible as often as I remember the church where flip serves as

associate pastor is Grace life Church of Anvil, Pennsylvania Grace life

Church of Anvil, Pennsylvania and their website is grace life PA .org

grace life PA .org.

Thanks a lot pastor flip for contributing to the discussion today.

We have a question that is very similar To this and but by the way before I

ask that question I just want to remind you that or remind myself to tell you I

should say that I want to get you also Hooked up and become

acquainted with two friends of mine.

One of which you just heard Promoted was speaking at the g3 conference.

I think that you need to have Kosti Hinn.

Come join you at one of your evangelistic endeavors in the Spanish -speaking countries where

proyecto niha Maya visits and evangelizes Kosti Hinn the nephew

of Benny Hinn who has repented of those Word of Faith heresies and as

a Reformed Baptist pastor and also my friend John Sampson Who is the pastor of Kings Church in

Peoria, Arizona?

He is a former Word of Faith Pentecostal pastor and even a former Trinity Broadcasting

Network talk show host the Trinity Broadcasting Network well known for being Affiliated with the Word of Faith movement.

He has also repudiated and repented of those Teachings and as a Reformed Baptist pastor

now.

So I gotta I gotta get you hooked up with those guys.

That would be wonderful.

Okay.

Let's see here.

Oh, yeah, I was just about to read a question we have from

Christian in Amityville Long Island, New York.

Actually I used to live there.

I was born and raised in Amityville.

Christian in Amityville, Long Island, New York says.

Do you agree with me that one of the appeals of Pentecostalism to a culture that

previously was predominantly Roman Catholic? that there are very Sensual

things about both religious system both religious systems, even though at first glance they may

seem as polar opposite Forms of religion Because Roman

Catholicism is typically very stoic and reserved and quiet but at the same time they are both

very focused on the miraculous and Very often connected to superstition.

I was wondering if you agreed with that assessment of mine.

Yeah, it's a great question and.

Good job, I think of explaining.

A.

Pneumatology or The understanding of the Holy Spirit across different traditions in his book on

the Holy Spirit including Roman Catholicism.

My own background my own academic background is more in the social sciences in sociology

particular and I think what makes the most sense to me in terms of

explaining from a strictly sociological viewpoint the Expansion and growth

again that does seem to have tapered off.

But I think it is this notion

empowerment in Societies where the people that were embracing

Sociology were very much the underclass very much disempowered very much exploited

both economically and socially so I Think that's a big part of the the explanation.

There's a sociological analysis that Pentecostalism held out the possibility of

having power in a context where they

were not of

the

Animated forms of Pentecostalism and if that is part of what the draw is.

Yeah, I think that there's probably There is an issue of cultural affinity

with more expressive Some of the more expressive forms circles.

That's it You know a lot of the people that I know in reformed circles

in Chile not necessarily within the Anglican Anglican context the people that

were Previously in Pentecostal churches and ended up in more reformed

churches while they have embraced reformed theology there is

still a Vibrancy in worship that is unmistakably.

I think there's a cultural element that to that as well

the combination of empowerment

behind a lot of Pentecostalism and at the same time once these guys

Embrace the reformed faith

very recognizably reformed as you might have experienced it in Majority

world Western countries United States, Australia, etc.

But again, there are still cultural elements that will probably That people will hold

on to even in in the form of church context.

Great.

Thank you.

Christian in Amityville, Long Island, New York.

Keep listening to the program.

Let's see here.

We have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania.

Who wants to know has the apostasy of Pope Francis

who has been becoming increasingly more and more liberal and left -wing and

Abominably crazy.

Has that Contributed to the predominant predominant Roman Catholic cultures

that you are acquainted with turning to the reformed faith and abandoning Roman Catholicism.

I

would say

many people leaving Roman Catholicism and in fact in some context

It might even be seen as a badge of pride.

So he's from Argentina.

Oh is is one of quote one of us.

He's one of our guys.

Yeah, right that has that that has played in the Roman Catholic Church's favor you know

again in the ministry context that I am most familiar with is Chile and there have Sadly

enough in a series of scandals within the Roman Catholic Church within Chile that

have led to

have contributed to Defections from the Roman Catholic Church, but again at the

same time there is just this generalized tendency away

from Established

part of that that product.

I would like you to.

Address models of ministry and pastoral Expectations.

I know that there are three major models of ministry traditional contemporary and

missional if you could.

Go through a brief summary of those and let us know what you endorse through project.

Yeah, yeah, very

good to my wife's chagrin.

In 2016 decided I would like to do a second PhD in intercultural studies that Trinity

evangelical divinity school studies is mission and evangelism and

One of the things that I am looking at in those studies is

the appropriateness of traditional models of pastoral ministry and this would be

true of any context.

This would be true of the United States or of Anywhere

where there's the formal training of men for gospel gospel ministry

going on and.

I.

I'm informed from from several sources, but.

That that that three -way distinction that you mentioned that the three -way Dichotomy, I

guess it's something that I have discussed at length with professor

Phil fell at Trinity.

He is a professor of pastoral theology at Trinity evangelical divinity.

And so basically he has come a way.

Distinguish and expectations

for depending on What a given

congregations?

Expectations for the so in that traditional model.

You've got the the parish priest who is largely

Responsible primarily.

And there's nothing there's nothing inherently bad with this primarily responsible for the preaching of

the word the administration of the sacraments.

There's also very

very much Limited to the activities of the local church that the

activities that take place within the local church.

So that's that you know that the traditional Model, I guess of pastor is

second model would be pastor and leader pastor as almost CEO

where a MBA degree might be as appealing as an

MBA degree, but that's the contemporary.

Idea.

That's right.

That's right.

So it's it's it's you know, and a lot of the the secret churches.

This is we're trained in and trained to do again what my wife and I spent

two and a half years in Illinois, right.

So we have some examples of large secret churches in the Midwest,

but then again, there's this third model which is pastor as

missions Mobilizer and I'm not when I say mission mobilizer I'm

not referring to mobilizing people within the local congregation for international cross -cultural mission.

That's great if that happens but it is.

First of all, it's it's pastor as a quipper.

Mobilizer certainly minister my own for

example in the Pacific Northwest very very secular local church attendance is

not I Can't imagine it being over 10 and in many of the cities

on a Sunday morning.

So it is it's a model of pastor ministry where the pastor is trained

to equip men and women for ministry in

related to Faith and work.

In fact, in fact if you could pick up if you could pick up right where you left off because we have to go to our final break and.

Then you could pick up right where you're left.

And if anybody wants to.

Okay, go ahead you're going to our final break so we could pick up right where you left off there.

And if anybody wants to join us do it now because we're rapidly running out of time.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

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Welcome back and dr. Jeffrey Lee Stevenson.

We were just going through the missional approach to ministry before We went

to a commercial break.

So if you could continue with that.

Yeah, so that is it's really just related to my my studies at Trinity

School in cultural studies or

Exploring.

He came back to

the

opportunity

for gospel

witness.

Great, and I believe I just noticed you've become my Facebook friend as well.

We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania who wants to know he says.

Sorry, I tuned in late.

I was wondering how you became So much in love with the Spanish -speaking

culture and why that is a primary focus of your ministry.

Yeah, so that's just that.

You know, this is a great question.

It's something that we discussed in In the realm of missiology this whole notion of call, right?

So if there is there a specific call for cross -cultural ministry and

Some people would say that that is the case and where there's the call I think we see this evidence in the

Apostle Paul he God also gives us a love and oftentimes that it's for a specific people group

and That has definitely been.

The case with my relationship with

my wife is Chilean.

Two of my kids were born in Chile.

I get back there with my family ideally as often as possible.

So That's and again at the very beginning of the program I mentioned the influence of this leader.

Michael Mallory was his name.

I'm now remembering it.

It was a combination of being great.

Well.

I'd like you to spend about five minutes of uninterrupted time just Unburdening your heart and

giving our listeners the information that you most want etched on their hearts and minds before this program is over.

Yeah.

Yeah, so

at hers

and

people

looking to take

their

content is that a

conference

of John

Piper.

It is okay.

It is very generous to as long as that line of generosity

Continues we will

continue to

be awful make it to

G3

now that

I'm full.

Oh, you definitely gotta be

there.

You definitely gotta be there.

That's right.

49 because my wife and I are one of the 50 people who can commit this can be

an individual.

This

could

be a

church

$50 at the

Evangelical

Theological

Society with

quality

and I

want

to remind our

listeners.

Again about the website for Roslyn Presbyterian Church in Roslyn Washington,

it is Roslyn church org and Roslyn is spelt r o s l y n r o s

l y n church org and Don't forget about the proyecto.

Nehemiah's and I'm probably butchering that as far as the way it's great.

Proyecto Nehemiah's org a proyecto.

That's p r o y e c t o n e h e

m i a s and That's org and you said you had a Facebook page.

That's a better way of contact.

Yeah.

We do have a Facebook page and our webpage is actually being redone right now by your

age.

Brand new webpage out.

Yeah, the link is and our Facebook

Handle is at project Nehemiah us there.

You don't need the Spanish Christ.

At project Nehemiah us and you can find.

Great.

Well, I already know that.

I want to have you back as a guest on our trip and vine radio.

And I look forward to that and I want to thank you for being our guest today.

I want to thank everybody who listened especially those who took the time to write and I hope all of you always Remember for the

rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.