May 31, 2019 Show with Andy Woodard on “A Vision for a Reformed Seminary in New York City”

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June 3, 2019

May 31, 2019: ANDY WOODARD, Lead Pastor @ New Covenant Church NYC will address: “A Vision For A REFORMED SEMINARY in NEW YORK CITY”

00:04: Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, in downtown
00:10: Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:50: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
00:58: And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
01:10: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
01:19: This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 31st day of May 2019.
01:27: I hope that you all were enjoying the reruns of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio while I was away.
01:34: Many of you may remember, especially if you listen to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio regularly, that I had been advertising a pastor's lunch, which
01:45: I do twice a year. This is a free pastor's luncheon that was really conceived by my dear, precious late wife,
01:58: Julie, in the 1990s. She recognized that I had an unusually high percentage of friends who are pastors, largely due to my having been employed in Christian radio for the majority of my adult life.
02:13: And she said, why don't we, instead of exchanging Christmas gifts to each other, why don't we start having a
02:20: Christmas lunch for your pastor friends and treat them to a nice time of rest and relaxation where you perhaps can invite in a speaker and get publishers to donate free brand new books so that every pastor can leave with brand new books.
02:38: And I agreed to that, and that caught on. We continued to do that every year.
02:44: At that time, I was doing it once a year near Christmas. And my precious wife went home to be with the
02:50: Lord in 2011. And four years later, after I completed a hiatus of Iron Sharpens Iron due to very serious depression over the loss of my wife,
03:04: I relaunched the radio show, as you know, from Carlisle, Pennsylvania, after relocating from New York to Carlisle.
03:11: And I relaunched the pastor's luncheons in honor and tribute and memory of my precious late wife,
03:20: Julie. So we have been conducting them nearly every year since 2015 here in Carlisle.
03:29: And now I do them twice a year, one in the winter, sometime between the weeks before Christmas and the early weeks in January.
03:38: And then we also have one in the springtime, which we just had on May 23rd. It was a wonderful time.
03:44: Dr. Tony Costa did a phenomenal job giving a PowerPoint presentation on how the
03:49: Dead Sea Scrolls vindicate the reliability of the Bible. We had a good turnout, and it seemed that all who approached me afterwards, which were most of the people,
04:00: I think, that were in attendance, were raving about how blessed they were by Dr. Costa, how amazing he is, how brilliant he is, how well prepared he is, and how fascinating he is.
04:10: And I look forward to using Dr. Costa for many more events in the future. I followed Dr. Costa to Long Island, New York, from Friday the 24th of May through Sunday the 26th of May, where I arranged speaking engagements for him at New Hyde Park Baptist Church on Long Island, Waiting River Baptist Church in Suffolk County, Long Island, and Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, and Miseo Church in Ridge, Long Island.
04:42: And Dr. Costa did a phenomenal job, as expected, at all of those churches, and was very warmly received.
04:50: And all that attended appeared to be riveted to everything he was saying, as can be attested to by the fact that most people stayed after the events for long periods of time to ask questions and so on.
05:04: That's always a good sign that people enjoyed themselves and were blessed and edified and educated. And so, then from there,
05:10: I went to the Banner of Truth Conference in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania. And that was a phenomenal time, as it always is.
05:18: And one of the people that I see at every Banner of Truth Conference I've ever attended, in fact,
05:26: I think I've seen him at nearly every Reformed Church, I'm sorry,
05:31: Reformed Conference that I have attended, but he is our guest today, Andy Woodard.
05:37: He is lead pastor at New Covenant Church, NYC, in the heart of Manhattan.
05:44: He's not only the lead pastor, but he's the founding pastor of that church. And today, we are going to address the theme of vision for a
05:53: Reformed seminary in New York City, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Andy Woodard.
06:01: Hey, Chris, thanks so much for having me on. Yes, I do see you several times a year at the conferences that I go to.
06:09: I promise I don't go to every conference. Well, I don't go to every conference either, but it seems that every conference
06:16: I go to, you go to. I think we have similar tastes in conferences. Well, tell our listeners who have not heard you from your interviews before something about New Covenant Church.
06:31: Obviously, if our listeners today who are tuning in listen with any regularity, they must have heard something about New Covenant Church, NYC, in an abbreviated form, because Dr.
06:44: Stephen J. Lawson, a friend of yours, who was actually your professor at one time, does the voiceover for the ad on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio for New Covenant Church, NYC.
06:55: But beyond what the commercial tells us, from the lips of Stephen J.
07:01: Lawson, tell us about New Covenant Church, NYC. Yes, so we started almost two years ago.
07:09: July 2nd will be our two -year anniversary of weekly services. So we started with three people and meeting in a living room, and then for the first year we were a house church, just lack of funds to rent any space, and we really didn't need to rent a space either.
07:27: Then, the one -year anniversary to the day, the first Sunday of July last year, we started renting public space.
07:35: We met in office space, dance studios, yoga studios, gyms, kind of all over the place.
07:44: So now we have around, I think there were 40 people last
07:49: Sunday, and we have 27 members right now. Wow, that is very impressive for a very new
07:58: Reformed Baptist church, especially because of the fact that even though Reformed theology is growing in popularity, it is still a tiny minority in the landscape of Christian theology.
08:13: Yes, the other thing that is one of my favorite things to mention about the church is the fact that we've installed a second pastor, a second elder.
08:23: So now there's two of us that are shepherding the congregation. And who is that?
08:28: That is Gary Rosenbach. Oh, yes, I know Gary, and I'm glad to see that he is now elevated to the position of elder.
08:37: Yes, he was our treasurer for a while, and now he's a pastor. So we're just trying to raise up more elders, more pastors, and equip the saints to do the work of the ministry.
08:52: And then, as the Lord gives pastors and teachers, shepherds to the flock, then we gladly take that, recognize them, and affirm them through the process of doctrinal examination and watching and observing their life.
09:08: And then we do a formal ordination as well. So Gary's ordination was back in January.
09:16: And my interest, our listeners, that Gary is a
09:22: Jewish believer, which some folks think it's an oxymoronic to be
09:28: Reformed theologically and Jewish, but it's not at all. I think it is actually more in harmony with understanding how
09:36: God has always had a chosen people throughout the history of the
09:42: Scriptures. And the nation of Israel were a chosen people, a chosen race in the physical sense.
09:52: And God has always had His chosen people, His elect that He has chosen before the foundation of the world in a spiritual sense, in a more significant and important, infinitely more important sense, which includes
10:03: Gentiles and Jews. And it's always a thrill to know that another
10:10: Jewish believer has embraced the doctrines of sovereign grace, in addition to, of course, infinitely more importantly,
10:21: Jesus Christ as His Lord, God, Savior, and King. So that's just a bit of trivia, because as we know,
10:28: Jewish Reformed Baptists are about as rare as a Bigfoot sighting. But it's always a pleasure to have fellowship with Gary as well.
10:41: So, if anybody, I'm hoping to remember to repeat this later on, and I'm sure
10:48: I will, but New Covenant Church NYC, if you want to find out more about this congregation, go to ncc .nyc,
10:59: very easy website to remember. ncc, for New Covenant Church, .nyc, for New York City.
11:06: And it's interesting how the websites are developing and becoming easier to remember with different letters available after the dots.
11:16: So just remember that website. And if you are visiting
11:22: Manhattan, which a lot of people do from all over the world, and we have listeners all over the world, please put it on your, somewhere in your, where you're never going to forget, some kind of pad that you have, that you travel with, a daybook, a calendar, put ncc .nyc,
11:46: so you'll know to visit New Covenant Church NYC when you visit Manhattan. And if you know folks that already live in Manhattan, and you're looking to recommend a good church for them, which you should be, just remember that address, ncc .nyc.
12:00: And let me also give the email address for our listeners who want to ask questions, chrisarnson at gmail .com,
12:12: chrisarnson at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com,
12:18: and please give us, as always, at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the
12:23: USA. Before we go into our subject at hand, a vision for a Reformed seminary in New York City, Gary, give us some of your thoughts and reflections upon the
12:33: Banner of Truth conference. I really enjoyed it very much. In fact, there is a possibility that in the spring of 2020,
12:44: I may have one of the speakers at the Banner of Truth conference as my Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio Spring Pastors Luncheon speaker,
12:53: Chad Vegas, whose name I have mentioned before.
12:58: I love his name. If I could switch my name with anybody else, it would be Chad Vegas, because I would pretend to be a movie private detective, because I think it's a quintessential name for a private detective,
13:10: Chad Vegas, private eye. But anyway, he gave some phenomenal messages, and in particular, the last one, which was the final message of the conference, actually immediately drove me to the idea of inviting him, and he, when
13:23: I approached him, he was thrilled with the idea, and said that he would be very excited and honored to do that, and we just have to make sure our schedules match.
13:32: And by the way, there's also a strong likelihood that the next
13:38: Iron Sherpa and Zion Pastors Luncheon, before that, which would be in January of 2020,
13:45: Justin Peters has expressed a very strong interest in doing that.
13:51: He's already agreed to do that as long as we can match our schedules together, so keep that in prayer as well.
13:57: But tell us your own reflections on the Banner of Truth conference. Yeah, in general, as you mentioned before,
14:07: I go to a lot of conferences. The Banner of Truth conference is, and Gary and I agree, this is our favorite conference that we have attended.
14:18: Some conferences are so large, and they're spread out all across the city, that you just spend a lot of time walking back and forth to the various locations and trying to find your breakout seminars.
14:32: It's all very complicated and overwhelming and exhausting, but this
14:37: Banner conference is not like that. It's hosted on a college campus with a dining hall and chapel and dorm accommodation, so you don't have to run all over the city trying to find various things.
14:53: So it's a relaxing atmosphere. It's also not huge in the attendance.
14:58: There's just a couple hundred pastors, maybe 300 that are there. Really? That's all you think were there?
15:05: I thought it was closer to like 500 maybe. Maybe four,
15:11: I don't know. There were seven pages of contacts and around 50 per page.
15:19: But yeah, around a couple hundred, several hundred pastors there.
15:24: So you can get to know people from year to year. So it has much more family feel to it and personal feel, whereas some of these enormous conferences, you just kind of feel like it's just a sea of people.
15:39: There's so many. Also, the preaching is incredible, and for me they're typically guys
15:46: I've never heard of before. They're not like the quote -unquote A -list celebrity preachers.
15:53: They're more like average pastors that are faithful and really tremendous, and it shows that there are pastors out there that I've never heard of who preach really, really good sermons, and I would do well to go and look them up on Sermon Audio and download their sermons and listen to them.
16:18: Let me just put in my own two cents regarding that description. I would call them humble men with humble churches that are not mega churches typically, but I don't know if I would call them average pastors because they are extraordinary in their gifts typically.
16:36: Yeah, I didn't mean average in that sense, but in the sense that they're pastoring churches that are not mega churches.
16:45: Right, right, right. And of course, we do have some exceptions of men who are absolutely superb that have very large churches like John MacArthur and others, but it is good to know that you don't have to be some kind of a super celebrity to be worthy of speaking at a major conference, and all of the men that I've ever heard at the
17:09: Banner of Truth conferences are excellent, and especially if you are
17:15: Reformed like we are, you can rest assured that you're going to have solid meat and biblically orthodox content.
17:26: Not that every single person who is published by the Banner of Truth is in lockstep identically.
17:33: They do represent a variety of Reformed backgrounds from Reformed Baptist to Presbyterian to Anglican to Reformed Congregationalist, even
17:50: Calvinist Methodist. So you do have a variety of backgrounds of men that the
17:56: Banner of Truth publishes and also invites to speak at their events. But in spite of any minor disagreements that even people in their own congregation might have with one another, you can be really rest assured if you buy a book from Banner of Truth or if you visit a
18:12: Banner of Truth conference, you're not going to be led astray by some crazy teaching. Yeah.
18:18: And so I strongly urge everybody listening to go to BannerofTruth .org. BannerofTruth .org.
18:25: We put on an email list or mailing list of some kind so that you can keep in touch with them about events they're having and also so that you can investigate their catalog because they just have the exquisite theologically sound information for you from writers and pastors and men of God from not only the past great heroes of the faith going back centuries but also current -day men like Sinclair Ferguson and others who are extraordinary men of God that are still alive and with us now.
19:03: So that's BannerofTruth .org. BannerofTruth .org. And now we are going to delve into a theme that you wanted to discuss today.
19:12: It is a vision you have for a Reformed seminary in New York City. You are intending right off the bat, right out of the gate, to view this as something that you are fairly convinced is going to take perhaps even decades to accomplish.
19:33: It's always better to view things that way than to expect something to happen quickly and then be sorely disappointed when it doesn't, which is one thing that we all have to learn, to be anxious for nothing and not to be impatient about things, to be patient with the
19:50: Lord and His sovereignty over things and His providence. But tell us why you came up with this theme to begin with and why you think that we don't want to disrespect or insult anyone involved in the higher education system in Manhattan that exists there already, but what specifically are you looking for, in fact, are you intending to create, if God enables you to, in regard to a
20:20: Reformed seminary in New York City? Yeah, so kind of breaking that down, starting with the specific vision in mind, the goal is to establish a
20:34: Reformed or Calvinistic, Baptistic residential seminary.
20:41: There is nothing like that that currently exists in Manhattan.
20:49: Most of the seminaries that are currently here are extremely liberal, or if they are truly
20:57: Christian, they are either an extension center or not
21:03: Reformed or just far broader in their scope. So, for example,
21:12: RPS, Reformed Theological Seminary, has an extension center here, but that doesn't, it's not the same vision, it's not the residential type of program where you have professors who live here.
21:27: The professors tend to fly in and they're more like guest professors who teach like a weekend class, things of that nature.
21:36: So that's the specific vision, it's just a Reformed Baptist residential seminary.
21:43: Similar in theological direction as a school like Southern Seminary, which I attended in Louisville, or the
21:50: Master's Seminary, which I'm currently a student at in California. So that type of school, but in New York City, which just objectively there is nothing like that currently in New York City.
22:06: So that's the vision. Now what are the primary reasons a person would enter into a seminary who happens to be blessed enough already to be going to a biblically sound church where they are fed the word of God weekly by men who are thoroughly acquainted and literate when it comes to the scriptures.
22:38: They have elders and they have others in the church that may lead Bible studies that thoroughly have grounded them for many years in the word of God.
22:51: And historically we know that there are men who have been raised up by God in very prominent positions in church history, who are highly respected even by the most brilliant scholars today, like Charles Adams Spurgeon, for instance, who had no formal education at all in a religious sense that I'm aware of.
23:14: And there are others as well. I believe that Dr.
23:20: Martin Lloyd -Jones was educated in the field of medicine, but I'm not sure if he had formal theological training other than what he had learned in church in his own study.
23:32: But what would be the compelling reasons why even a gifted person, well grounded in the faith, fed properly in his church, what would be the reason why he should seek seminary training?
23:48: Yeah, that's a good question. So I'm about to say two things that will seem like they contradict.
23:55: So on the one hand, most... I'm trying to say seminary is normative, but on the other hand it's not.
24:07: So in today's world, most pastors are not as gifted as Charles Spurgeon or Martin Lloyd -Jones.
24:16: Most people are not that brilliant and that gifted, and even that disciplined.
24:25: So they need the instruction of a professor who can walk with them through the systematics and the church history and the
24:37: Old Testament, New Testament, and Greek and Hebrew. Most people are not inclined to pick up a
24:42: Greek book on their own without someone actually assigning it. Some, now there are those exceptions, the
24:49: Spurgeons and Lloyd -Jones who, they were self -taught or they did their reading.
24:57: Like Spurgeon did much of his reading in his childhood in his,
25:03: I think it was his grandfather's library. So he read the stuff, he read the material, it just wasn't in an academic type environment.
25:13: So that's what I'm wanting to say on the one hand, that it's normal for a pastor to get theological training, but then on the other hand, it seems that American training in seminary is kind of the exception if you look around the world.
25:28: Most pastors on the earth today don't actually have formal theological training.
25:34: Most of them have never sat in a seminary because most of them are in places like Africa, Asia, and South America where there are very, very few seminaries and even fewer biblically sound seminaries.
25:49: So I don't know if I'm making this distinction clear, but that seminary does have a valuable place if it's biblically faithful.
26:01: And even, you know, I work with Gary, my co -pastor, and Gary is just now starting seminary, but his call to be a pastor in the church was not dependent on him being in seminary because of how well taught and self -taught he is.
26:18: But he's the exception to the rule in our congregation. There are numerous other young men in the congregation who desire to be pastors or elders, but they need more structured guidance than what
26:34: Gary has needed. So for the rest of them, they would really need to go to seminary in order to be as equipped as he has equipped himself on his own.
26:47: So I think that most people, if they have the opportunity, would benefit greatly from seminary training.
26:57: And we see this in doctoral studies. Probably half of the class are international students that are coming here from places like South Africa and Zambia and Croatia, just kind of all over the world, and they're coming here at enormous expense because they see the enormous value of sitting under the likes of Steve Lawson and John MacArthur and Derek Thomas and Sinclair Ferguson and Alistair Begg.
27:26: And these are the professors that are teaching my classes. And just being honest with you, those guys are a lot better at teaching than I am.
27:38: And so if people in my church had the opportunity to study under those guys,
27:44: I would urge them to do so because those people are many times more knowledgeable and more able to train pastors than I am.
27:57: And so that's the vision behind starting a seminary where you can bring in some of the world's leading pastors and professors and scholars to train not just pastors but a certain type of pastor as well.
28:14: But I don't know how long we have before we're done. We're actually going to get on our first break right now, but you can continue your train of thought when we come back.
28:23: And if you could, whatever mouthpiece or microphone or phone receiver or whatever you're using, if you could speak closer into it because you naturally have a quiet voice to begin with, and we need as much amplification of your voice as possible because you do sound very quiet.
28:41: So that would help. So if anybody wants to join us on the air, there are a couple of people waiting to have their questions answered already.
28:50: But if you'd like to join them and get in line, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.
28:57: And please, as always, give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the
29:03: USA. And here's a message to start with from a seminary who helps keep
29:08: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. We would be amiss not to promote this wonderful institution that is
29:15: Reformed Baptist and a seminary located in Mansfield, Texas. So please listen carefully for their information, and we look forward to hearing from you and your questions at chrisarnson at gmail .com
29:30: or our guest, Andy Woodard, right after these messages. Hello, my name is
29:36: James Renahan, and I'm the president of IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas. The Word of God says, if a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing.
29:47: Do you have the desire to serve Jesus Christ in pastoral ministry? Twenty years ago, the
29:52: Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies at Westminster Seminary in California was born. For those two decades, these institutions worked together to train men for ministry in Reformed Baptist churches.
30:04: It's been a wonderful partnership. Now we have advanced our school into an independent seminary offering a full program of courses leading to the
30:12: Master of Divinity degree. This is IRBS Theological Seminary. We believe that the scriptures of the
30:18: Old and New Testaments are the inspired and inerrant Word of God, that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life, death, and resurrection, and that the task of the church is to honor and serve the triune
30:30: God in all things. IRBS Theological Seminary is dedicated by God's grace to preparing godly ministers who will be committed to these doctrines.
30:39: Do you sense a call to serve Jesus Christ and his church as a pastor? Why not consider IRBS Theological Seminary?
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38:09: That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,
38:26: Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted.
38:34: He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.
38:39: You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the
38:46: Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.
38:59: Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered,
39:04: Christ -exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.
39:11: That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.
39:21: Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. My name is
39:28: Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.
39:35: I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.
39:41: I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.
39:47: It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.
39:53: You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.
40:02: They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.
40:08: If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit
40:17: New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc
40:24: .nyc. Have a great day. And we have the pastor of New Covenant Church, NYC, as our guest today on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
40:34: If you just tuned us in, his name is Andy Woodard, and we are discussing a vision for a
40:40: Reformed seminary in New York City. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,
40:50: c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. As always, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside of the
40:58: USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. Before we go on to anything further that you'd like to say,
41:06: Andy, we do have a listener, Ronald, in eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York.
41:12: And Ronald says, As wonderful as seminary education is, and a glorious gift from God that he has trained up men and given them the ambition and desire and ability to form these great institutions of higher learning, isn't it very dangerous if we begin to act as if this is some kind of a biblical requirement of men for the pastoral ministry?
41:40: One of my disagreements with my dearly beloved Presbyterian friends is that some of their denominations actually require this for someone to be ordained into the pastoral ministry in their denominations, when the
41:55: Bible never makes any kind of requirement like that. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I definitely see that as kind of an issue that I've read in qualifications of certain organizations where you must have an
42:14: MDiv in order for them to even consider you. As we've already discussed, there were... Brother, you've got to really speak up because we can barely hear you,
42:22: I'm sorry. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I see that issue. As we've mentioned in the previous half of the program, that there have been many godly, wonderful pastors throughout history that God has used in incredible ways who have no seminary degrees.
42:39: And as I mentioned, my co -pastor doesn't have a seminary degree and he does a fine job.
42:47: So we're not at risk of creating this extra regulation.
42:56: I just see that it is a great help that many people do need.
43:04: But I do kind of groan on the inside a little bit when
43:10: I see certain organizations requiring that a man must have an MDiv in order to be eligible to pastor or plant a church with them.
43:20: And I have seen those, and as you mentioned, I believe the PCA requires it to be ordained. But you know why they do.
43:27: It's because there are certain topics and subjects that you're just not that likely to pick up on your own and they want to ensure that you have at least...
43:37: The original language is one of them. Yeah, you have to take Greek and Hebrew and honestly, very few people are going to do that on their own.
43:47: So that's one of the major values of seminary. In fact, I have heard from Greek scholars that sometimes having some knowledge of Greek and Hebrew but not enough can make you more dangerous than if you didn't have it.
44:10: Yeah. But I do know, as you keep reiterating, as far as Gary Rosenblatt, your co -pastor, not having formal seminary education.
44:21: My late wife's late pastor, who is now in heaven with her, Don Blind, I'm not even 100 % sure he completed a high school education.
44:33: I know that he did not go to college of any kind. He was a postal worker until he retired, but the man had an encyclopedic knowledge of the
44:42: Bible and he had nearly a photographic memory, as far as I could tell, just an amazing man, even though I didn't agree with him on everything that he believed or taught.
44:52: He was a Calvinistic Baptist, however, but he was just a remarkable man, a very knowledgeable man who, when you brought up a subject, he could immediately allude to scriptural references without even opening up a
45:08: Bible very often. He would just know them by heart. But in some sense, if a person who is in the pastoral ministry has the means to enter into seminary, if he had not already been educated like that, in that depth, and not only has the means, but the time and so on, the support, there is a certain level, and I have to be careful about this,
45:41: I'm not broad -brushing pastors who don't have seminary educations, but there is a certain level of pride that may exist among some that do not believe that they need any further education.
45:57: In fact, historically, there have even been denominations that divided over this.
46:02: There were some denominations that thought it was a sin to even create a seminary because it wasn't a biblical concept in the
46:10: New Testament to have a seminary. But don't we have to be, all of us, but especially perhaps those that are going to be shepherding
46:20: God's flock, have to be careful about not having pride as a reason for not going to seminary.
46:26: If they can go, if they can afford to go, either because they are already financially well -off enough to do that, or if they have been provided the opportunity by others who are generous and willing to give, and they have enough time to do that even before they enter into the ministry, they have to just be careful that pride isn't one of the reasons they forgo that.
46:51: Are you in agreement with that? Yeah, I definitely observe that as a problem as well.
46:58: The people who think, I think Spurgeon put it as this, I'm amazed at those who think so highly of what
47:05: God has revealed to them, but they think so lowly of what God has revealed to other people.
47:11: So they're not willing to learn from others. They kind of see their walk with God as an exclusively individualistic thing, where like, there has been no
47:23: Christianity before I arrived, and now I'm here to be the fountain of all wisdom and knowledge.
47:31: And the reality is that we're standing on the shoulders of thousands of years of saints who have gone before us, and we would be fools to not learn from the people that God has given to us to learn from.
47:46: Ephesians says there's gifts to us to learn from pastors and teachers.
47:52: So I think that we need to study to show ourselves approved unto God, and obviously that doesn't have to look one certain way, but there is a way to do that, and we call that seminary.
48:04: By the way, I want to give a shout -out to the congregation that was pastored by the late
48:10: Dawn Blend, my wife's congregation where she was a member before we were married,
48:17: First Baptist Church in Lindenhurst, Long Island. I just want to give a shout -out to them since they were on my mind.
48:23: And Pastor Depresso has taken up the mantle after my dear friend Dawn Blend entered into eternity not long ago.
48:32: So I just hope all is going well with you folks there at First Baptist Church in Lindenhurst, Long Island.
48:37: We have an anonymous listener who says, unless you're picking the right seminary, cannot entering into a seminary being one of the very worst decisions a young man aspiring to be a pastor can make because of the fact that there seems to be so few
48:59: Christian so -called seminaries in existence that are actually still faithful to the
49:05: Word of God, and many young men have their minds polluted and wind up returning home as heretics and polluting the churches where they wind up shepherding.
49:17: Yes. Yes, that's very much so.
49:26: But the thing is that I think that that shows all the greater need for biblically sound seminaries.
49:38: It definitely is a dangerous thing, but the issue is that it's not going away.
49:45: Seminaries are not going away. Well, the liberal ones are. The liberal ones are dying, but doctrinally conservative seminaries are growing.
49:52: And the requirements that churches and denominations have that a man must have an
50:00: MDiv, that requirement also typically is not going away. So the reality is that the standard expectation that a man have an
50:09: MDiv or its equivalent, that's going to be there 5 years from now and 10 years from now and 20 years from now and 40 years from now.
50:16: And let's be real, among us who's really thinking much further out than 40 years from now.
50:22: So the need is there for biblically faithful schools because if a man desires to be a pastor, he's probably required to get seminary training.
50:36: Therefore, there should be faithful options. And praise the Lord that there are, but the vision for this is to provide that residential training because residential,
50:47: I've experienced, residential is much, much better than simply an online class where you don't actually know your professor and you don't actually rub shoulders with your classmates.
50:59: So we want to provide a biblically faithful seminary that is here in the center of the largest city in North America.
51:08: So that's the vision. And the most liberal city, arguably, perhaps in the world.
51:15: The most religiously and ideologically diverse and ethnically diverse city in the world, perhaps.
51:23: A place that is really in great need, not only for biblically faithful churches, but for institutions of higher learning like a good solid reform seminary.
51:33: It's amazing in a city that huge that there are not more congregations in existence that are theologically sound.
51:45: When people ask for referrals from me to churches in New York City, I'm very thankful that I now have
51:52: New Covenant Church NYC to include amongst a tiny handful of churches that I could really, with a good conscience, recommend.
52:01: And I'm assuming that you would agree with me that there are few and far between in this huge city churches that are truly and consistently faithful and loyal to the actual teachings of the
52:14: God -breathed scriptures. Yeah, that's definitely a huge problem here.
52:21: It's just a major lack of biblical churches. Do you mind if I talk for a moment on a couple more of the reasons for the seminary?
52:34: Yes, I would definitely want you to do that when we return from our midway break, which we have to go to now.
52:40: So just remember that if you want to write it down or something so you don't forget. Okay, and if anybody else, in fact we still have some people waiting to have their questions asked and answered.
52:50: So please be patient. We're going to our longer than normal station break right now because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1
52:58: FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of our show because they, by FCC regulations, they have to localize
53:07: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and their programming content to Lake City, Florida. So they air their own commercials and public service announcements during this longer station break, while we air our own commercials, which are heard globally.
53:20: So please be patient with us as we take this longer than normal break. But also please use this time wisely and do two things for me.
53:28: Write down all the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them whenever possible, because we rely upon our advertisers to exist.
53:41: We cannot exist without the financial support of our advertisers. So the more frequently you patronize them, the more likely they are going to continue advertising with us.
53:53: And also use this time to write down questions for Andy Woodard on his vision for a reform seminary in New York City.
54:01: And that email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away,
54:08: God willing. We're going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors with more of Andy Woodard and his vision for a reform seminary in New York City.
54:19: My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.
54:26: I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.
54:32: I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.
54:38: It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a reformed Baptist church that meets in midtown
54:43: Manhattan. You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc
54:51: .nyc. They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.
54:59: If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit
55:08: New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc
55:15: .nyc. Have a great day. One sure way all
55:24: Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers. I know you all use batteries every day, so I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively use
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57:03: I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in the churches of our
57:12: Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture. I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture, and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ.
57:28: Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths. Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people.
57:41: If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org.
57:50: Chris Arnsen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a
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59:10: Did you know that all believers are priests?
59:16: In 1 Peter chapter 2 verse 9, the Apostle Peter describes Christ's church as comprising a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
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01:01:19: I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, host of A Visit to the Pastors Study, and I am so thankful to be part of the advertising family right here on Iron Sharpens Iron.
01:01:28: If you live on Long Island or if you're visiting the metropolitan New York area, I invite you to join us for worship at The Haven on Sundays at 4 .30
01:01:36: p .m. We meet at the Ascension Lutheran Church facility, 33 Bayshore Road in Deer Park, New York.
01:01:43: At The Haven, you'll find God -saturated singing, gospel -rich ministry, and great commission opportunities.
01:01:49: Learn more about us at thehavenli .com, and join us this Sunday at 4 .30
01:01:55: p .m., 33 Bayshore Road, Deer Park, New York. Hey, this is
01:02:01: Pete Orta, former guitar player for the Grammy Award -winning Christian rock band, Petra. I'd like to invite you to my new podcast called
01:02:08: Christian Conversations Unfiltered. This channel is much different than my sermon podcast. The episodes are intimate conversations with people who
01:02:16: I enjoy about topics that I can't really unbox from the pulpit. Each episode is unproduced, unedited, and unapologetic.
01:02:24: Conversations that might not only help you answer some relevant questions you might be struggling with, but also help create some questions in your head that you might not have even ever thought of.
01:02:33: The purpose of this podcast is to help people apply their theology while broadening their biblical worldview.
01:02:38: So go to PeteOrta .com, that's P -E -T -E -O -R -T -A dot com, and click subscribe to podcast, and then choose what podcast you'd like to hear, if not both, and what platform works best for you.
01:02:52: Can't wait for you to join us. God bless. I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrough, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi.
01:02:59: God tells us in James 1 .27 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction.
01:03:05: In the providence of God, three years ago, I discovered a poor, small church outside Lusaka, Zambia, in a township called
01:03:11: Kabanana, who were taking care of 24 orphans. I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.
01:03:17: What was I to do? Could I just say, God bless you and walk away? The situation of the children set heavily upon me.
01:03:22: As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.
01:03:28: The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child.
01:03:34: If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need. Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there.
01:03:41: So if you give a dollar, a dollar will get to the orphans. In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans?
01:03:48: Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi, 39443.
01:03:56: Or donate through our website, bbclaurel .com. Again, the address is
01:04:01: Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi, 39443.
01:04:07: Or bbclaurel .com. Thank you. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,
01:04:16: Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted.
01:04:23: He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.
01:04:29: You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the
01:04:35: Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.
01:04:48: Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered,
01:04:54: Christ -exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.
01:05:01: That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.
01:05:10: Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I'm Pastor Billy Linhart of Sovereign Grace Particular Baptist Church of San Angelo, Texas, and I'm thrilled to have joined the
01:05:34: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio family of sponsors. We fully subscribe to the Second London Baptist Confession of Faith as a faithful summary of the most vital
01:05:43: Biblical truths, desire to worship the Triune God of the Holy Scriptures in spirit and truth, and seek to make
01:05:49: His glory known in the Concho Valley, West Texas, and beyond. Sovereign Grace PBC of San Angelo purposes to center our worship on the
01:05:58: Holy Scriptures and the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the hope that He will grow us in love and the unity of truth.
01:06:04: After Sunday services, join us for a fellowship meal followed by our Ladies' Fellowship in our
01:06:09: Children's Sunday School class. If you're looking for a church in West Texas that's serious about the Word of God and worship that pleases
01:06:16: Him, come visit us. For details about Sovereign Grace Particular Baptist Church of San Angelo, Texas, email sgbcsa at gmail .com,
01:06:26: or visit us at sgbcsa .com. That's s -g -b -c -s -a dot com.
01:06:39: Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Ironson on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:06:45: I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.
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01:08:39: It is a pastor in New York, the Life and Times of Spencer Cohn. Spencer Cohn was a
01:08:47: Reformed Baptist pastor in Manhattan in the 19th century. Back then they called themselves
01:08:52: Particular Baptists. And he has a life that is so fascinating that it should be made into a major motion picture, or at least a documentary.
01:09:03: I am just utterly fascinated by this man, and I loved reading this book by John Thornberry, a highly respected and greatly loved
01:09:12: Baptist historian and retired pastor. This beautiful hardback, published by Evangelical Press, is just an amazing book that I urge you to read.
01:09:26: I cannot imagine if anybody listening loves church history, they love reading about men of God that have been greatly used.
01:09:34: I cannot imagine anybody being bored by this book or not wanting to continue reading after picking it up.
01:09:41: It is just, I think, utterly fascinating, and I can't speak highly enough about it. This great man of God, who is virtually unknown today.
01:09:51: It's quite tragic. He was very well known and highly respected in his day, in the 19th century.
01:09:57: But today, he is virtually unknown, and that is really a serious tragedy, in my opinion.
01:10:04: And I am trying to get more and more people to discover this great man of God. He was a school teacher.
01:10:12: He was a lawyer. He was a stage actor in the 19th century, in the theater.
01:10:19: He was a war hero in the War of 1812. He was, as I said, a pastor in New York City, facing all kinds of controversies, theological and otherwise, surrounding him being a firmly committed particular
01:10:35: Baptist pastor in Manhattan. And his reaction to the passing of his wife, who he dearly loved, moved me beyond words.
01:10:47: Being a widower myself, the way that this affected the life of Spencer Cohen when his wife went home to be with the
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01:12:03: Eastern Time. Before I return to my friend Andy Woodard, oh, by the way, let me make a bit of trivia
01:12:10: I forgot to mention, is that Andy Woodard and Gary Rosenblatt and I orchestrated a couple of years ago a major event in Manhattan at the
01:12:21: First Baptist Church of New York City, the same church where Spencer Cohen was the pastor.
01:12:28: We had a conference with Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. And it was a really blessed event that we had there.
01:12:37: But that's just a bit of trivia that I thought I'd mention. Before I return to my guest Andy Woodard, I just have a couple of announcements in regard to upcoming events that you should be aware of.
01:12:48: Another event in New York City that I love attending, and it was actually the very first place that I met
01:12:54: Andy Woodard, that is the Foundations Conference, a conference of sermon audio in the heart of Manhattan.
01:13:02: And this year the conference will be held Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th in Manhattan.
01:13:10: The roster includes a phenomenal lineup of speakers, including
01:13:15: Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, whose voice you hear every day promoting New Covenant Church NYC.
01:13:23: Dr. Lawson was a professor of our guest today, Andy Woodard.
01:13:29: And he was eager to help Andy promote this church when he learned of the opportunity to do the voiceover for the commercial.
01:13:40: But he is on the roster. He is the founder of One Passion Ministries. Paul Washer, who is an extraordinary pastor and preacher as well.
01:13:49: Actually, he's not a pastor at this point. He's a itinerant evangelist and author. What an extraordinary preacher he is.
01:13:56: Rev. Jeff Thomas, now retired from the pastoral ministry in Everest with whales.
01:14:02: Alfred Place Baptist Church is where he pastored for over half a century. And he is also a truly profound and extraordinary preacher and teacher.
01:14:11: He just recently wrote a glowing commendation for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, which I am eager to get posted on the website.
01:14:19: Rev. Armin Tamasian, who has become one of my favorite preachers. He's a young man and has been used powerfully of God.
01:14:29: He has gifts and abilities and wisdom far beyond his youth.
01:14:36: Rev. Armin Tamasian, I keep reminding you that I believe he's going to be a household name over the next decade amongst
01:14:42: Reformed Christians. So you don't want to miss him. The other two pastors on the roster,
01:14:49: Richard Caldwell Jr. and Andrew Quigley. I have not yet heard them preach, but I am confident that they are excellent because Sermon Audio would not have selected them to be a part of their conference if they were not.
01:15:01: So Sermon Audio is very finicky in a right way, in an appropriate way.
01:15:07: So I'm glad that I can count on them for having high quality and biblically sound preachers at their conference.
01:15:16: So if you want to go, I will be there and look for me if you register. Go to thefoundationsconference .com
01:15:25: Thefoundationsconference .com You'll have all the information that you need for this conference Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th in Manhattan.
01:15:33: And keep in mind that their venue holds less than 200 people. So register as soon as you can before they are completely full.
01:15:41: Then after that, in January, I am packing up my bags again and heading down to Atlanta, Georgia.
01:15:49: More specifically, College Park, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta. I'm going to the
01:15:54: Georgia International Convention Center in College Park for the 2020
01:16:02: G3 Conference. The G3 Conference is one of my very favorite conferences.
01:16:08: And I have always been blessed profoundly, not only listening to people speak and preach there, but also because I set up an exhibitors booth there and they have over 5 ,000 people in attendance.
01:16:21: And it has always been tangibly a blessing to my radio program because I have not only gained advertisers by being there, but I've gained new listeners and I've gained new speakers, guests on the program.
01:16:37: And I have been given a lot of encouragement by people who already listen to Iron Trip and Zion Radio from all over the world, who come to my exhibitors booth to encourage me, to let me know how much they love this show.
01:16:49: So it is a wonderful event. And as I said, it is going to be held
01:16:56: Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th at the Georgia International Convention Center.
01:17:03: And as always, they have an extraordinary lineup of speakers. Kosti Hinn is one of these speakers.
01:17:10: Kosti Hinn, many of you may not be familiar with him yet. I believe that you will be over the next few years, especially because he is not only a profound and humble man of God, rare combinations to have, an excellent speaker, but he is the nephew of the world -renowned heretic and charlatan,
01:17:33: Benny Hinn. Kosti has renounced the word of faith heresies that he was raised in.
01:17:38: He has become not only a Reformed Baptist, but a cessationist. And one of his life's missions, not only to first and foremost spread the gospel of Jesus Christ, but also to expose men like his uncle and others in the word of faith heresy because of the seriousness of their deadly and damning false doctrines.
01:17:59: So, Kosti Hinn is on the lineup. David Miller is another speaker on the lineup who is one of these extraordinary, old -fashioned preachers.
01:18:11: It's a dying breed of men that preach the good old gospel like David Miller does.
01:18:19: And I'm sure you will be blessed by him if you love God's word and you love the gospel of Jesus Christ. Derek Thomas, who is a name very familiar to Reformed Christians.
01:18:29: I'm sure everybody who is Reformed knows that name from his books and from his preaching.
01:18:35: My very dear friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries is on the roster. Joel Beeky, another dear friend who
01:18:42: I've known since the 1990s, is on the roster. Josh Bice, the founder of the G3 Conference.
01:18:48: Once again, we have Paul Washer and Stephen J. Lawson on the roster at this conference.
01:18:54: My friend, Dr. Tom Askell, who I've known for many years. He is the executive director of Founders Ministries, which is the
01:19:01: Calvinistic ministry within the Southern Baptist Convention with a passion to return the
01:19:07: Southern Baptist Convention to its biblical and theologically Reformed roots. Every single person, every single minister that founded the
01:19:16: Southern Baptist Convention was a Calvinist. And Dr. Askell longs to see that to become the primary theology of that convention.
01:19:28: He is on the roster. And Vody Balcom is another extraordinary man of God that I love to hear preach every time
01:19:34: I have the opportunity. If you want to register for the G3 Conference, and once again, it's
01:19:40: January 16th through the 18th in 2020, go to g3conference .com,
01:19:46: g3conference .com. And if you have a business or a parachurch organization or a church that you want to promote,
01:19:55: I strongly urge you to register not only to attend as an individual or as a family or church, but I would register for an exhibitor's booth as well while they still have room.
01:20:07: Because as I said, typically they have well over 5 ,000 people attending this conference, and it's an ideal place to have an exhibitor's booth.
01:20:15: That's g3conference .com, g3conference .com. Last but not least, if you love Iron Trap and Zion Radio, you appreciate the guests and the topics that we address every day, some of which are never heard anywhere else.
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01:21:04: Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary flew out to the United States to be involved in my pastor's luncheon and also other speaking engagements, and the airfare was more than triple of what it cost to fly him out here last time because the
01:21:22: Soviet Socialist Republic of Canada has put a carbon tax on airfare, and so it really over -tripled the cost.
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01:22:33: And to remind you now, our email address for our guest, Andy Woodard, if you have a question for our guest
01:22:40: Andy Woodard, the pastor of New Covenant Church NYC, is chrisarnson at gmail .com,
01:22:45: chrisarnson at gmail .com. We are discussing a vision for a reformed seminary in New York City.
01:22:51: Of course, since Andy is a pastor, you can broaden that theme for your questions to anything in regard to Christian theology and doctrine and so on.
01:23:02: But the main theme we are discussing is a vision for a reformed seminary in New York City. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com,
01:23:08: c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. And please, as always, give us your first name, city, and state and country of residence, if you live outside the
01:23:15: USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. So, Andy, if you could pick up where you left off on some more reasons why we need, or especially why you and your fellow citizens of New York City need a reformed seminary.
01:23:32: All right. So, in missiology, there's a thing called the hilltop principle, and it describes cities as this hill in that things flow down from the cities and impact the surrounding community.
01:23:45: New York City being New York, it is the highest hill. It is the most influential city, and there's a reason the
01:23:53: Pope called it the center of the universe. And there is very much a sense in which, so let's say
01:24:00: America is kind of the leader of the free world, and so as goes America, it tends to lead in the direction of much of the rest of the world.
01:24:10: Now, within America, New York is very much kind of the financial leader, the cultural and even religious leader of North America.
01:24:24: And then of New York, it's really New York City and Manhattan that set the pace for the rest of the borough.
01:24:33: So when we see this, in history we see this even recently, such a thing which happened in New York City changed the entire world.
01:24:44: You kind of cut out there for a second, so I'm not sure I got the full train of thought that you had.
01:24:50: Can you repeat what you just said? Yeah, we see this even recently in 9 -11.
01:24:55: 9 -11 changed the world. That just happened here, but now the entire world is impacted.
01:25:03: You also see the economic impact of New York City. It impacts the entire world. But we've seen as well that the religious impact of New York impacts the whole world.
01:25:15: Historically, we know of the revival of 1857. That revival spread throughout the world, such that there's a book that Banner of Truth is selling called
01:25:24: Spurgeon's Revival Year Sermon from 1859. That was the ripple effect from the revival that started in New York City as it became a global revival.
01:25:36: Now, this impact that New York has is both for good or for ill. There are dangerous religious trends that come from New York and make their way...
01:25:48: Really? That shocks me. ...that affect the rest of the world as well.
01:25:54: And the type of evangelicalism that is in New York impacts the rest of the world as well.
01:26:01: So the current president of the Southern Baptist Convention points to Tim Keller and says that he is his most influential preacher and pastor in his thinking.
01:26:11: If you listen to him preach, if you listen to J .D. Greer preach, you'll hear Tim Keller in his voice.
01:26:18: So there's a certain type of pastor that is being trained and produced here in New York, and that impacts the rest of the country.
01:26:27: And I take it from your tone of voice that you're not happy with that. Um... It's not whether I'm happy or not.
01:26:36: That's completely irrelevant. The issue is that this is a type of church that is ontologically different from what...
01:26:52: It's different. It's not dependent on the Word and prayer and the
01:26:58: Spirit. It's funded by... It's being propped up by external sources.
01:27:04: It's being... It's Willow Creek. It's speaker -sensitive. It's not...
01:27:10: Like, if God disappeared, if God was not here, most of evangelicalism in New York City would not notice.
01:27:18: Because, as a friend of mine observed, much of it doesn't even believe in God.
01:27:23: They acknowledge God in some way, but when it comes down to it, they're not really looking to Him for much of anything.
01:27:32: It is the surveys and the research and the advertising and marketing and hiring your musicians and all these things that are done in the arm of the flesh.
01:27:44: As we heard at the Banner Conference, this is a very real problem, and that is the driving force of Manhattan evangelicalism, and the result is it impacts the rest of the country in that same type of way.
01:27:58: Yeah, it seems that even when you look at very historically conservative denominations and fellowships and brotherhoods within Christendom, when they have an arm or a representation in New York City, they tend, and I have to be very careful not to brow brush, they tend to be a lot more liberal than those same denominations or fellowships or brotherhoods have in the rest of the
01:28:34: United States, or the world, for that matter. And it seems there is a desire to be culturally relevant where liberal elitism is king.
01:28:48: There perhaps, even if it's unconscious, a desperate attempt to win over people that are a reflection of the liberal tendencies of many residents of New York City, judging from who they elect into office very frequently.
01:29:11: So it is a problem where you have churches struggling desperately to survive.
01:29:21: There's a greater temptation perhaps than many other places in the world to accommodate to trends within liberalism.
01:29:28: Am I making myself clear, and do you agree with what I'm saying? Yeah, that's very much a problem.
01:29:34: There's been such a change in the church.
01:29:40: There's a book written called The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind, I think, and then
01:29:45: Karl Truman wrote another book called The Real Scandal of the Evangelical Mind, and his summary is, it's not that there is no mind in evangelicalism, it's that there is no evangel in evangelicalism.
01:30:00: The gospel itself has been lost. And we observe here in churches throughout the city that they're not truly preaching the gospel, and they are effectively being built on the backs of unconverted church members, and the pastors tell small group leaders, listen, you can't confront false teaching in your small group or else the people will leave.
01:30:25: That's what one of my own church members told me when he left his previous church, and he left because of those types of reasons.
01:30:35: So these problems are pervasive. I'm assuming that one of the reasons why you believe a solid institution of higher learning is a desperately needed thing in New York City, especially since we are reformed and you are reformed, that you want it from a reformed perspective, obviously, is because the theological competition, if you will, very often, especially in places like Manhattan, appeal to the academic realm and to the intellectual elite and to the
01:31:20: Ivy League arena of education, and people think that these prestigious schools, because of the long histories they have and because of the perhaps brilliant yet heretical or lost faculties that they have, in spite of their being far from biblically faithful, people tend to think that they must have the real answers to the most vital and serious issues that face all of us.
01:32:01: So having a reformed and biblically sound institution of higher learning gives more credibility to what the
01:32:10: Bible actually teaches. And I'm not saying that we should cater to what lost men think is the most appropriate route to take in life or what impresses the world, but at the same time there are people in academia that need to be challenged and even in the form of formal debate in other ways that just because they may have many letters of the proof of their higher education and accomplishments in life does not mean they even know the first thing about what the
01:32:56: Bible teaches. Even if they've memorized the Bible, it doesn't mean that they know what it actually teaches. Am I making sense here?
01:33:02: Yeah, definitely, and I think that we see that issue represented in centuries past by people like the
01:33:11: Puritans, many of which were educated at Cambridge and Oxford. They had the highest training possible at the time and they used that training to combat the highest errors and the highest heresies that were being promoted.
01:33:26: And I think that that's why it would be such a benefit and would be so important to have very well -trained pastors here in New York rather than scraping the bottom of the barrel and saying, well, this person doesn't really know their theology, doesn't really know the
01:33:47: Word, but he sure is a nice guy. We need to be well -trained.
01:33:54: And we're not trusting in our minds and our knowledge, but there is the reality that we are a truth -based religion.
01:34:00: We are a Word -based religion, so we must know our stuff. And our church goes out and does public evangelism in Union Square with gospel tracts, evangelism, conversations, and open -air preaching.
01:34:17: And every heretic and their brother comes out and sets up shop in Union Square.
01:34:23: And these are all kinds of false religions that most of us have never heard of before we run into them there.
01:34:31: And I think that it is very important to be able to confront and refute false teaching.
01:34:40: I mean, that's one of the qualifications of a pastor. They must be able to refute false teaching.
01:34:46: So I think that the time is here for us to dig deeper and lean in instead of being more casual in our approach to pastoral training.
01:34:56: That's what you just said about Union Square reminded me of Speaker's Corner in London, England.
01:35:02: Not that I've been there, but I've heard about this area of London, England where you have all kinds of religions and philosophies and ideologies, representatives of those different trains of thought who gather together and very often are shouting over each other.
01:35:19: And so I don't know if that shouting part is what's going on in Union Square, but it just reminded me of it.
01:35:24: Yeah, it's very much the Mars Hill of today. Well, I don't know if you have another reason for New York needing a seminary,
01:35:35: New York City needing a seminary, but we do have a listener. Which would you like to do first? Let's go with the listener.
01:35:42: I only have one more set of notes, of things to say, not just a certain type of preacher that we need to produce, but we can go with the listener first.
01:35:52: Okay, we have John in Bangor, Maine, who asks, From your knowledge of the history of the city of New York, are you aware of any institutions of higher learning from a theological point of view that have ever existed there that were truly biblically faithful?
01:36:13: Higher education schools. You know, like a seminary, a Bible college, that from the history of Manhattan, New York City, the five boroughs, where perhaps it had been known generally to the
01:36:31: Christian community at large, even nationally, as a center for higher learning that was theologically reformed, biblically accurate, scripturally faithful, et cetera.
01:36:43: Well, let me start by saying no, I'm not aware of any, but I would follow up by saying
01:36:49: I would assume that all of the current seminaries were started by gospel -believing people, because liberals don't start seminaries, they just corrupt them.
01:37:05: That's an interesting point there. Liberals don't start seminaries, they corrupt them. So I would assume that, let's say
01:37:14: Union Theological Seminary, which is now interfaith, it's not even Christian, it's so goth, but I would assume that when it started, it was started because, same with the
01:37:25: Ivy League schools, it was started with a good desire to train pastors to preach the gospel. So I would assume that's why
01:37:31: Union and New York Theological Seminary and the seminary at Columbia and all the others,
01:37:38: I would assume they were all started with a desire to be biblically faithful. Even the very liberal
01:37:44: Episcopal Seminary here, General Theological Seminary, I'm sure, was a gospel institution when it started, because that's the only purpose of getting up on a
01:37:52: Sunday morning, is because Jesus really rose from the dead. So I would assume that they all started out good and then went back.
01:37:59: And I think we have to be careful also not to give the impression that there are no schools that are run by truly born -again people and who have a faculty of evangelicals and so on.
01:38:16: We're speaking of a specifically reformed school, not reformed school where teenagers who are delinquents and criminals go,
01:38:27: I mean a reformed school. I know, for instance, we have
01:38:34: King's College, we have New York School of the Bible. There are other places where there are evangelicals who are truly wonderful people and at times brilliant people, but the schools are not uniformly and specifically reformed.
01:38:51: Yeah, so the issue with those two situations, so King's is only a college, an undergrad college, not a seminary, and they would be represented as broader evangelicalism.
01:39:07: Right, and there are even Roman Catholics on the faculty and so on. Yeah, yeah. And then
01:39:13: New York School of the Bible is more of a Bible institute and not a seminary and also not really reformed either.
01:39:23: And there's a New York Divinity School that had a different name before that. Yeah. And I know the president, a wonderful man, but it's not specifically unilaterally a reformed institution.
01:39:39: Correct. And I met with the president there, Paul DeVries, maybe a month or two ago, or two or three months ago, to talk about this vision.
01:39:48: And they're not accredited.
01:39:55: It's a slightly different situation also that's not reformed. A good bit more broad.
01:40:03: They have a number of charismatic Pentecostal faculty members. They're egalitarian, things like that.
01:40:14: Egalitarian as a unilateral teaching that must be held by faculty or just that there are some that are egalitarian or perhaps even women themselves who teach there?
01:40:27: I would assume that they have professors who are not egalitarian, but I know that they have female professors that are egalitarian.
01:40:36: Then, of course, we do have some of our reformed institutions of higher learning that have females in the faculty, but they're not teaching homiletics or something that would be specifically pastoral in nature.
01:40:50: And, of course, I guess there's debate over that as well amongst complementarians. But we have to go right now to our final break, and then you said you had one more thing that you wanted to address regarding New York City's need for a reformed seminary.
01:41:07: If anybody wants to join us on the air with a final question or should I say a question before we run out of time, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,
01:41:18: C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. And please, as always, give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the
01:41:25: USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. Don't go away.
01:41:30: We'll be right back with Andy Woodard and a vision for a reformed seminary in New York City right after these messages from our sponsors.
01:41:47: Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.
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01:47:45: Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.
01:47:51: I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.
01:47:57: I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.
01:48:03: It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.
01:48:09: You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.
01:48:18: They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.
01:48:24: If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit
01:48:33: New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc
01:48:41: .nyc. Have a great day. Hello, my name is
01:48:46: James Renahan, and I'm the president of IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas. The word of God says, if a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing.
01:48:58: Do you have the desire to serve Jesus Christ in pastoral ministry? Twenty years ago, the
01:49:03: Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies at Westminster Seminary, California was born. For those two decades, these institutions worked together to train men for ministry in Reformed Baptist churches.
01:49:15: It has been a wonderful partnership. Now we have advanced our school into an independent seminary offering a full program of courses leading to the
01:49:23: Master of Divinity degree. This is IRBS Theological Seminary. We believe that the scriptures of the
01:49:29: Old and New Testaments are the inspired and inerrant word of God, that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life, death, and resurrection, and that the task of the church is to honor and serve the triune
01:49:40: God in all things. IRBS Theological Seminary is dedicated by God's grace to preparing godly ministers who will be committed to these doctrines.
01:49:49: Do you sense a call to serve Jesus Christ and his church as a pastor? Why not consider IRBS Theological Seminary?
01:49:56: You'll find more information at irbsseminary .org. That's irbsseminary .org, two
01:50:02: S's in the middle. I hope to hear from you soon. God bless you. I'm Pastor Billy Linhart of Sovereign Grace Particular Baptist Church of San Angelo, Texas, and I'm thrilled to have joined the
01:50:21: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio family of sponsors. We fully subscribe to the Second London Baptist Confession of Faith as a faithful summary of the most vital
01:50:30: Biblical truths, desire to worship the triune God of the Holy Scriptures in spirit and truth, and seek to make his glory known in the
01:50:38: Concho Valley, West Texas, and beyond. Sovereign Grace PBC of San Angelo purposes to center our worship on the
01:50:45: Holy Scriptures and the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the hope that he will grow us in love and the unity of truth.
01:50:51: After Sunday services, join us for a fellowship meal followed by our Ladies Fellowship in our
01:50:56: Children's Sunday School class. If you're looking for a church in West Texas that's serious about the Word of God and worship that pleases
01:51:03: Him, come visit us. For details about Sovereign Grace Particular Baptist Church of San Angelo, Texas, email sgbcsa at gmail .com,
01:51:13: or visit us at sgbcsa .com. That's s -g -b -c -s -a dot com.
01:51:23: Thriving Financial is not your typical financial services provider. As a membership organization, we help
01:51:29: Christians be wise with money and live generously every day. And for the fourth year in a row, we were named one of the world's most ethical companies by the
01:51:38: Ethisphere Institute, a leading international think tank dedicated to the creation, advancement, and sharing of best practices in business ethics.
01:51:48: Contact me, Mike Gallagher, Financial Consultant, at 717 -254 -6433.
01:51:55: Again, 717 -254 -6433 to learn more about the thriving difference.
01:52:03: We were made for so much more than ordinary life.
01:52:09: Lending faith, finances, and generosity. That's the Thriving story. We were made to thrive.
01:52:27: Lindbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lindbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.
01:52:34: Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.
01:52:42: It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.
01:52:50: We're a diverse family of all ages. Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ. In fellowship, play, and together.
01:52:56: Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Lindbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.
01:53:02: Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402.
01:53:09: Or visit LindbrookBaptist .org. That's LindbrookBaptist .org. Have you been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio?
01:53:24: We remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you. There are four ways you can help.
01:53:31: First, do you know potential sponsors who may wish to advertise their goods or services on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio?
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01:53:56: and click support at the top of the page. But most importantly, keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in your prayers.
01:54:03: We hope that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio blesses you for many years to come. Listening to Christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually.
01:54:32: Even many of the major Christian networks that include excellent, biblically faithful teachers on their lineup, sadly often also include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics.
01:54:44: If you are a lover of the doctrines of sovereign grace, you need not fear listening 24 hours a day to FirstLoveRadio .org.
01:54:52: They feature Christ -centered programming from Reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological soundness and biblical faithfulness, such as Dr.
01:55:01: W .R. Downing, Dr. Peter Masters, Pastor Joe Jackowitz, Pastor Robert Gifford, Al Martin, Edward Delcor and more.
01:55:11: FirstLoveRadio .org also live streams my Iron Sharpens Iron Radio program daily.
01:55:16: Please stick around on FirstLoveRadio .org after Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is over to continue being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the gospel of sovereign grace.
01:55:27: Spread the word about FirstLoveRadio .org. www .firstloveradio
01:56:21: .org Anthony Uvinio of New York Apologetics and my friend
01:56:40: Jerry Smith. Well, they let me know that they have decided to be new financial supporters of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:56:50: And you'll be hearing ads about that church shortly. And I just thank God for them coming to the rescue during our need financially, our urgent need.
01:57:00: And their website, so you could jot that down. If you live in the Coram, Long Island, New York area, or if you're visiting there, or if you have family, friends and loved ones in that area, hopereformedli .net.
01:57:14: It's hopereformedli, for Long Island, dot net. And that's Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York.
01:57:20: Well, we are now back with Andy Woodard, the pastor of New Covenant Church, NYC. And we are discussing the need for a reformed seminary in Manhattan.
01:57:29: And if you could, Pastor Andy, conclude with your final point on this, why we need such an institution in New York City.
01:57:40: Yeah, kind of summarizing it, it's because we need to train a certain type of preacher, not just more of the same.
01:57:50: There's a book that kind of helpfully breaks this down, Head, Heart, and Hands. So you've got your mind, your affections, and then the outward actions.
01:57:59: Obviously, the mind involves the core curriculum, such as the Old Testament, New Testament, history, apologetics, things of that nature.
01:58:07: But then there's the heart, which is the need for having affection for God, but then also courage.
01:58:17: We need pastors who are in possession of a spine, they have a backbone.
01:58:25: I think that was mentioned at the conference this week. But then also, with that courage, to also have tender compassion for the weak and struggling sheep.
01:58:36: Both having the courage to shoot the wolf, but care for the sheep. Right now, there's a lot of talk about the 11th commandment, and the 11th commandment is,
01:58:47: You shall not say anything bad about anything bad. And we need to train pastors who have courage.
01:58:58: And that seems to be an enormous problem, a lack of that here in the city.
01:59:06: People are afraid of getting a bad write -up in the New York Times. So that's why they avoid giving straight answers to direct questions.
01:59:14: Well, if anybody wants to help Pastor Andy see this dream become realized, go to ncc .nyc.
01:59:23: That's the website for New Covenant Church NYC. ncc .nyc. We're out of time now.
01:59:28: I want to thank you, Pastor Andy, for being our guest today. I want to thank you and your church for this faithful financial support that you have provided for a number of months now.
01:59:37: I want you all to have a blessed, safe, and happy weekend, especially a wonderful, glorious,
01:59:43: God -honoring Lord's Day this Sunday. But I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater