To Mask or Not to Mask the Christian Response

Andrew Rappaport's Rapp Report

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Wrap Report with your host, Andrew Rappaport, where we provide biblical interpretation and application.

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01:20

Well, welcome to the Wrap Report. Bud, you hearing me okay? What? Yeah, it's kind of hard to talk when we got these masks on.

01:26

You're muffled. Yeah, but I got my nice mask that I'm supposed to wear when I go out.

01:32

This is, if you can read this one, for those who are on Patreon watching the video, there's

01:38

R .C. Sproul. Yeah. Or, yeah. Yeah, you're wearing the shirt. What's wrong with you people?

01:43

I got the billboard t -shirt on, so. Yeah, we're wearing these in honor of our special guest here, but what's your mask say?

01:52

Well, on a backdrop of the flames of perdition is the word repent. Repent?

01:58

Repent, yeah. So, you wear that out and people ask you what they got to repent of? It hasn't provoked anything so far.

02:06

Yeah, you're not wearing it enough. See, mine, at least... Even greater social distancing. Yeah, see, the thing is, with mine, people that don't, you know, if you have to wear this mask, you're going to suddenly go, oh, look at that.

02:18

What's wrong with you people? Well, that must be referring to the people that wear masks. But in case, in case, you know, let me take this off so I can be heard a little better.

02:27

You actually, you sound better. Can you hear me better now? Oh, wait. What have you got now? Oh, I'm sorry.

02:32

I still have another mask on. That's John MacArthur saying, go home. Is that?

02:38

Oh, let me take that one off. How's that?

02:44

Is that better now? How about that one? Oh, yes.

02:50

See? See, I got Kenneth Copeland blowing away COVID because he blew it away and it's over.

02:55

It was done. Yeah. So, so we're going to talk today about masks, whether we should wear them.

03:03

Obviously, as you could already tell, that one of the big problems is you can't hear anybody that's wearing these masks.

03:11

And, and Anthony, what are the one of the most severe results of all this? The effects?

03:16

You don't see people smiling anymore. Yeah. I was going to say, you know, every Ray Comfort constantly says

03:22

I judge people by their teeth and I can't do that anymore. Everybody's wearing masks. So let us introduce our guest today.

03:29

That is Dr. Anthony Silvestro. And if you didn't, if you don't know, the joke he just gave is the fact that he is a dentist by trade.

03:36

He is one of the speakers at Striving Fraternity and also a speaker with Christian Training Institute with Mike Riddle's organization.

03:43

And so he is joining us. He's actually here with, with me in, in person. And so he's going to be preaching at my church this weekend.

03:51

And so we figured we would record with him. And the topic that we're going to talk about is whether Christians should, should not wear a mask.

04:00

Now, Anthony, it would be fair to say you and I have gone back and forth on this. You haven't changed your position at all.

04:07

You know, we'll discuss whether it's rebelliousness or not, but, you know, we want to discuss because this is a topic that a lot of people are bringing up, whether or not to wear a mask.

04:23

And so this is something we, I think that would be beneficial because this is a question a lot of people are wearing or discussing, especially when it comes to those churches that are finally, and some still are not, but those that are finally starting to open up and get together.

04:39

And the first thing that becomes a question is, do we wear a mask or not? I'm going to be at the Cruciform Conference in a few weeks and I'll play,

04:47

I'll give you some more information about that at the tail end of the show. But the, the, you know, one of the questions that everyone's asking me is, do

04:54

I have to wear a mask? Anthony and I were talking about the G3 cruise that we're scheduled to go on.

04:59

And, you know, it's like, you know, I'm paying all this money to be on a cruise, but I don't want to have to wear a mask everywhere

05:07

I go. That's not enjoyable. Right? So do we still want to go? These are the things that we have to deal with as we deal with these issues.

05:15

But we want to come at this from a biblical perspective and understanding the reasons we should or should not wear a mask.

05:24

So, Anthony, let me start with you and ask you, you take a strong position against wearing masks.

05:32

So we'll give you an opportunity to explain, you know, why you won't even wear this, this beautiful, you know,

05:38

R .C. Sproul saying, what's wrong with you people? Or John MacArthur saying, go home, you know, which now more people at least recognize

05:44

John MacArthur or, you know, at least Bud is evangelizing with his repentance. And I believe in all three of those, all three of those messages strongly.

05:53

What's wrong with you people? You're a consummate evangelist. I know. I've seen you doing it. This would be perfect.

05:59

Yeah. I would rather wear it on a t -shirt or on my forehead. You know,

06:06

I think that there's two different arguments to be made and both of which would show that we should not be wearing masks.

06:12

We have a biblical, we have set of biblical arguments as to why I don't believe we should be wearing masks.

06:17

And then let's, we have to look at the science because the reasons that the secular world are giving is, is what they claim to be scientific evidences.

06:28

So does the science actually support wearing masks? That's a question.

06:33

The answer is no. And so we're going to, we're going to walk through that today. Well, so from the biblical perspective,

06:40

I think what you were saying is because I know you've been working on a message on, on James and the use of the tongue. So that, you know, but we have plenty of verses that say, you know, 1

06:49

Peter 4, 8, you know, love covers a multitude of sins. And if the tongue is a, you know, as a sin, that's biblical, isn't it?

06:55

Or, or, or, you know, we could look at James 5, that's within the same context at 520. It says that, you know, let him who, let him know that he who saves a sinner from error in his, in all his ways, saves a soul from death and covers a multitude of sins.

07:13

So see, the Bible talks about coverings. Yeah. I mean, Ezekiel 28 says, and I have destroyed you,

07:18

O covering cherub. So let me just go a different way and suggest that since we brought up science,

07:28

Paul in 1 Corinthians 8 says, knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies.

07:37

So, so that might be a response to that. We've got scientific knowledge, which is highly contentious, even in the secular arena.

07:46

Yeah. But we also have Jeremiah 3, 25. Let us lie down in our shame and let, let our humility cover us.

07:53

See, that's talking about covering. See, so it's biblical to cover. No, no. If we're just going to do battles of the

07:59

Bible verses, I got to get my iPad out. These are clearly not talking about coverings, meaning masks.

08:08

These are not the way to interpret scripture. No. Yeah, that has an atoning quality to it,

08:13

I think is what that implies. Yes. So, so, but, but a more serious note though, we, we will get to a, a, what should be,

08:23

I think, a biblical perspective that we would have on this. I think there is passages scriptures that we can use without looking for the word covering and then trying to, you know, make things up.

08:34

But let's start with the science and then move to the biblical. So, Anthony, you're, your background as a dentist, you, you in your role as a dentist have to wear a mask when you're, you're working with a patient and, and you have for years.

08:50

A lot of people don't know some of the background, what doctors understand about the mask. So let me ask you, how often do you change your mask and why?

08:59

Yeah. So I want to preface your question by, by saying this, dentists have been wearing masks since the early 1980s as well as gloves.

09:09

Yeah. Well, some, some of us actually remember, and this is, this is, but this is beyond Anthony's knowledge. He doesn't understand us, but there's some of us that can still remember the taste of our dentist's fingers.

09:19

You know, my dentist as a child was, was obviously a tobacco smoker and I could taste it when he stuck his fingers in my mouth and he didn't wear a mask.

09:27

You have no idea how many patients tell me this, older patients tell me this. Notice I said older patients tell me this, but yeah, they could taste this.

09:37

They could taste the cigar smell on, on their hands. So yeah, this goes, certainly it goes back a long time, but yeah.

09:45

So mask has been worn since the early eighties. It was really the AIDS scare that caused this to occur. And it was a fear of, of AIDS and HIV that caused this.

09:55

And I'll tell you, we learned, we know a lot more about HIV today than we did back then. And there are certain protocols that are in place, that are in place of medicine that are really good as a result of that scare.

10:05

And there's some that probably are not really helpful. Having said all that, dentists understand aerosols probably better than any other medical profession.

10:17

Now we've got, we've got commercial aerosols, right? So people who work in factories and there are certain masks you have to wear for aerosols there.

10:23

If you're working with, with the leads, if you, you know, especially like lead, the old lead paints. Now, if you're working with different chemicals, there are different types of masks and filtration systems you have to not only wear, but the, the room actually has to have certain filtration systems.

10:38

But in medicine, when we, when we're talking about bacteria and viruses and fungus, which is what can infect us, right?

10:46

We're not talking about the heavy metals and different things that are in, are in regular industry. When we're talking about these biological issues.

10:54

Now, when we talk about dentists, we understand aerosols better than literally anybody in medicine.

11:01

We've been dealing with aerosols since the eighties. We have literally 40 years of research of aerosols in understanding what aerosols, what they are, how far they can travel, what travels in them and what our masks actually do.

11:17

Now, it would shock people to know this. When we wear masks in the dental office, number one, it is not about protecting ourselves against aerosols.

11:30

We've known full well all these years that aerosols go through masks. This is, this is known.

11:38

Go ask your friendly dentist or your friendly doctor, unless they've bought the Kool -Aid, but ask him what the research has shown for the last several decades, and they will tell you this.

11:47

The reason why we wear masks as dentists is to block the splatter.

11:54

Because as we know, as we're drilling on teeth, as we're doing surgeries in the mouth, there are times that you get blood splattering.

12:01

And it does stop the blood splatter. But this, I give this as a backdrop, Andrew, because you asked the question about, in terms of their effectiveness, right?

12:11

And, and here's the issue is, is what do the masks actually block out?

12:17

And what do they not block out? How often do we exchange the masks? Was your first question.

12:23

The moment you sneeze or cough into a mask, you are to change your mask.

12:30

When you are in the middle of a surgery and you start to get blood splatter up on your mask, the first chance you get, you change your mask.

12:40

Why? Right? That's the question. Now, why is it? Well, it's very simple.

12:47

When you cough out or sneeze out stuff, you've got mucus particles, you have saliva droplets, and there's going to be bacteria and fungus and viruses that can and are attached to these droplets.

13:04

The problem is, is that if you took a couple drops of water and put them on your desktop and then took a fan and blew the fan over that droplet of water, how long does it take before that droplet of water aerosolizes?

13:23

15 seconds? 30 seconds? I mean, think about this. When you wash your hands in a public bathroom and then you go to a public dryer, right?

13:32

You hit the button and you wipe your hands and it blows air and it dries. A little bit's the heat, a little bit's the air moving.

13:38

How long does it take for your hands to dry? 15 to 30 seconds, maybe? Guess what's happening in your masks?

13:45

You cough or sneeze into it. Your droplets dry within 15, 30, maybe 60 seconds.

13:54

And then what do you think happens to all those viruses and bacteria and fungus spores? You blow them right through those holes in the mask.

14:02

See, what people don't recognize, and you can go to the CDC website today and you can read this.

14:09

You can go to the mask manufacturers today and you can read this on their website.

14:16

The coronavirus specifically is 125 nanometers in size, give or take, right?

14:23

Our research shows about 125 nanometers. Our masks, the ones that people are wearing, are blocking out particles that are micron -sized.

14:32

If you've got a really good mask, maybe it's a tenth of a micron. But the reality is that coronavirus is literally a thousand times smaller than the holes in the masks that most people are wearing.

14:46

It sounds like it's not really going to protect very much. Well, that's the point, right? That's the science of this.

14:53

And so the media, and I've traced this because I was starting to do live Facebook videos back in early

15:00

April on this subject. At first, the media was lying to people.

15:05

They were saying the coronavirus is some mega -sized virus. And so they were claiming it was in the micro -sized particle range.

15:13

And just for anybody who doesn't know the math, let me explain it to you. You've got a meter. Then when you take a...

15:22

We're in America where you do things by foot. Wow, that's a hard conversion. Well...

15:29

2 .2, I think. Yeah. So what I'll say is this. Micro is a thousand times bigger than nano.

15:38

That we can know if you don't know a lot of math. I'll just tell you that as a fact. You can go look it up later. So they were lying about the coronavirus.

15:48

They said it was nano -sized. Or I'm sorry. They said it was micro -sized when it was really nano -sized. They were lying. It was a thousand times bigger than what it actually was.

15:54

When people started to catch on with this issue, then they changed the narrative and said, well, it's the droplets.

15:59

The droplet size is micro -sized. And that's what we're trying to protect against. The droplets.

16:05

To which now what we were just talking about makes... We can make sense of this now, right? Droplets, yes.

16:11

Droplets can get caught by cloth masks. Yes, droplets can get caught by pantyhose pulled over your head.

16:17

Or whatever else people are using today. Or their shirt. Or their shirt. Or a piece of cloth.

16:23

Well, bank lobbies are closed. So you can probably get away with the pantyhose thing. That right there is kind of interesting.

16:32

Because I've always... I found it interesting that the Black Lives Matter protests when they were first protesting were not wearing masks.

16:41

And then when they started doing criminal activity, they suddenly were all wearing masks. And everyone thinks it's because of the health reasons. I really wouldn't in any way want to wear a mask for any other reason.

16:50

Like to cover their face from all the cameras. No. I miss that argument. All right. So let me ask you this. Let's make it a hypothetical.

16:57

Because I don't want to confess that I did this. In any event, I did. Going through the grocery store.

17:04

Down the soup aisle. And I didn't have a mask on. Or a person didn't have a mask on.

17:09

And a little old lady comes up. And says... She's all masked up. Very sweet little old lady.

17:15

And she says, Wow, I really like your cologne. What kind is it? I need to get some for my husband.

17:21

And I said, wait just a second. Or the person may have said, wait a second.

17:26

Do you realize? You could smell my cologne through your mask? And she's like, I didn't think about that.

17:34

I guess cologne is much smaller than the virus. Actually, it's not. That's not where I was going with that.

17:46

No, and that's what's crazy about this. It was just a month, maybe six weeks ago. That we saw the

17:52

California wildfires really breaking out. And you had the CDC. As well as other organizations.

17:59

Saying that. Masks will not help you. With smoke inhalation.

18:05

Oh, yeah. I can buy that. To which all the scientists were saying, Wait a minute. Smoke particles are much larger than viruses.

18:13

Especially coronavirus. Which is one of the smallest viruses known to man. So, yeah.

18:19

It's really interesting. There's been some guys out there saying, Wait a minute.

18:24

If you can smell somebody's breath through their mask. Is it really blocking viruses? The same way that you can smell stench through somebody's clothes.

18:35

If they're not wearing deodorant. It's literally the same logic.

18:41

And so, we look at the science. And this is what the science is actually showing. The holes in a mask are literally a thousand times larger than the coronavirus.

18:51

And so, coronavirus blows right through it. Even the droplets. Once the droplets dry within 15 or 30 seconds of being on your face, the virus blows right through the mask anyway.

19:03

And so, theoretically, if somebody wants to use masks to block droplets, the only way to do it is for you to carry a bunch of masks in your pocket that are decent masks.

19:13

And you switch them out every time you cough or sneeze. But, there's one other problem here.

19:22

We also know in dentistry and medicine that you cannot wear a mask for a particularly long time.

19:29

And the reason why is because water vapor tends to also break down the mask even further. So, the mask already has pores in it.

19:37

The aerosols just from our normal breathing, the water vapor, breaks down those fibers and creates even bigger holes in the mask on a microscopic level.

19:46

So, if we're wearing the same mask for several hours, let alone the same mask for several days, guess what's happening?

19:54

We're blown right in and out of this thing anyway. You're speaking of the masks we're seeing so many people wear, those little blue masks that they use in dentistry and elsewhere, where it's just, you know, the medical masks,

20:10

I guess. It's not one of these filtered ones, because we will get into the difference between vented masks and non -vented masks, but we're talking about the ones where these disposable ones that everyone has, not the cloth, things like that, because I think there is going to be a difference between a cloth mask like the ones,

20:28

I mean, I had three of these on, so this is really going to help me, right? Because it's got to get through three levels of masks here. But a mask like this is going to be different than those medical masks.

20:37

So, let me clarify. Yeah, these are cloth masks. Even the medical masks that people are buying to wear, those are essentially cloth masks.

20:46

So, they're not filtered, they're not anything. They're a piece of cloth that is supposed to be more tightly woven, essentially, right?

20:55

Just to throw this out there, if you actually look at what's available in the stores that they're selling now, because at least here they're back in stock, you can go to the shelf and pull masks down.

21:05

But if you read the box, it'll say does not provide protection for antibacterial or is not antibacterial or antiviral.

21:12

Well, you know, you're mentioning that. What's the point? Yeah, because I wanted to bring this up earlier, because Anthony, yesterday you were at the store and you posted a picture of what the actual box says on it, and maybe it'd be good for folks to, because most people maybe not look at the box, but these store display where they're selling the disposable masks for people, and yet it clearly said what it should and should not be used for.

21:43

So, what did it say on the box? The manufacturer. This is literally the most common mask that is being sold out there.

21:51

And it says this, disclaimer, on the back side of this box. This product is not to be used as, it numbers several things.

21:58

Number one, as a surgical mask to provide liquid barrier protection. Again, it says it right here.

22:04

Masks that we use as doctors is for liquid barrier protection. It's not about aerosols.

22:10

It never has been about aerosols. So let's be clear about that. Number two, in a clinical setting where the infection risk level through inhalation exposure is high.

22:18

Number three, this product is not to be used for antimicrobial or antiviral protection, or for infection prevention or reduction.

22:28

Whoa. Infection prevention or reduction. Yeah. Not good for antimicrobial or antiviral protection.

22:37

Number four, it's not to be used as a respiratory protective device. And number five, for high risk aerosol generating procedures.

22:45

So, this is the very mask that they're selling out to people.

22:51

It's not the only one. But it's a major one. And they're all they're all the same masks.

22:58

This is the disclaimer that's coming on these boxes. So literally, people are wearing things thinking they're getting protected and the box itself tells you this does not protect you against these things.

23:12

So you've got right now, I think I looked last night in anticipation of our conversation today.

23:18

I think it was 33 states have mandated masks in some capacity.

23:24

And the others may actually have metropolitan areas or particular counties that they're mandating.

23:31

So this is widespread regardless of what is on the back of the box.

23:37

Okay. So let's deal with a couple things with that. First off, when we speak of the mandate,

23:43

I think there's a difference we have to understand. Okay. Is there a mandate for people to wear masks?

23:50

Or is it a mandate for stores to tell everyone to wear a mask?

23:56

There is a difference. Because in many of the states they cannot mandate people wear a mask to the person.

24:04

But they can threaten a business that doesn't have a sign. So there is a confusion we end up seeing here because in the states, at least in my state, they can't mandate people wear a mask.

24:16

But everyone thinks they have because every store is required to have a sign that says you must wear a mask.

24:24

So the thinking is it's a state -issued order. And yet what the state actually says very clearly in the law is that if you have a medical reason then you do not need to wear a mask.

24:39

And further, they can't ask you what that medical reason is. That's actually in the mandates.

24:46

So the mandate is actually for stores to put it up.

24:51

Now, we're going to get to this later, and I mentioned this last week on the Rapp Report, but the reason is fear.

24:57

And we're going to get to that because that's going to be a major thing. But I want to go with one other thing as well.

25:05

Well, let me answer the mandates first. Then I want to go into different types of masks. So what do you think about these mandates and why we see this universal?

25:15

Well, I think it's fear -mongering, honestly. I think it's virtue -signaling. And I think it's people that just don't have the knowledge base.

25:24

Here's the reality. I have friends across the country, doctors, dentists, and others, and nearly everybody thinks this is ridiculous based on the research that we've had since the early 80s.

25:36

We have tons of research about masks. Why is it that there's just a few that are being put in front of cameras and making it sound like masks have protections for people?

25:49

This is what's really, really puzzling. And then you've got politicians that have gotten involved. But I've said from the beginning on this, this was never about science.

26:01

It has always been a political agenda. Because the policies have been political. And we saw this bear out.

26:07

We saw this bear out with the rioters. They're saying, well, rioting, you can't catch. You're at low risk for coronavirus.

26:14

They're not worried about rioters. But you've got to wear them when you're in stores. How does this work out?

26:22

And that wasn't the only one. There's a number of things that we saw that clearly this is a political type agenda.

26:28

Again, I just mentioned earlier about the smoke inhalation in the forest fires. These masks aren't going to stop the smoke from coming in your lungs.

26:37

But yet, viruses are much smaller. Especially coronavirus. Which is not to say, and I don't think any of us will deny the fact that this is a legitimate disease.

26:48

It's a legitimate threat. The problem is, it's not nearly the threat that everybody said it was in March.

26:54

We don't have millions of bodies stacking up in the street as a result of this plague. For those that have conditions maybe that predispose them to it, to be lethal.

27:04

And the elderly, it seems, are the ones that are most drastically affected by this. Then you need to take some personal responsibility.

27:12

Be prudent and do what makes sense. But you're right in assessing this political motive.

27:22

They leapt on this. And I think we'll get to this more in a bit. But you're right in the sense that they were...

27:30

Here's the epitome. Trump, there's video of Trump walking up.

27:37

He's got a mask on. He walks up to a microphone. Before he gets to the microphone, he takes the mask off.

27:42

We don't see the microphone. I guess it's there. The people are like 20 feet away from him.

27:49

They're criticizing him because he takes the mask off to talk to the reporters. But there's a video that was out there, probably taken down by now, where they had

27:59

Biden walking up to a stage without a mask, but when he got on stage he put it on.

28:05

He was just as far from people. Right there you see they're criticizing Trump for not wearing a mask when talking to reporters and trying to kill them.

28:14

And Biden, who's clearly doing it for a show. He was walking around without the mask, but when he got up to the stage he's putting it on.

28:24

Right there, it's like, okay, when he's with the people, when he's around people, he wasn't wearing it.

28:30

It was only when he was on camera. So clearly, it's a political thing.

28:36

And for the rioters and looters, it's a protection thing. Not from COVID. But I want to talk about different types of masks,

28:46

Anthony, because there was something you had said that was interesting to me, was when I had to travel, and now that you're getting flying again, and traveling and speaking at different events, the thing that got me was that they required a mask.

29:02

But it couldn't be a mask like I had, which was a vented mask. They wanted one of these cloth ones that we have here, that don't vent.

29:11

And I thought that was silly, because in my mind the vented mask, which has a filter, would protect me better if there was

29:21

COVID in the air, versus a cloth mask that doesn't. You had explained to me, and we had this come up yesterday in the store, where someone actually admitted to this.

29:32

What is the purpose for saying that we should not wear a vented mask which would protect ourselves?

29:39

What's the reason that we're hearing all these mandates and requiring cloth masks over...

29:45

Because when this first happened, Trump was talking all about the N95 mask. Everyone was trying to get an N95 mask. And now they're saying, no, you can't wear an

29:52

N95 mask. You have to wear a cloth mask. Why do they make that difference? Well, one is it blocks most of what you're breathing in, but it has no filter as you're breathing out.

30:04

They're designed that way on purpose. But you know, there's even another thing with the N95s.

30:10

There's something called fit testing. So anybody who understands masks, researchers...

30:20

You got to read it. He put his mask back on his face and said,

30:25

Repent. And it wasn't fit tested. You have to do something called fit test your masks.

30:32

So I have friends that are EMS guys, and there are times that they're going to be in hazardous situations. Once a year, they have to be fit tested for N95 masks.

30:41

So there's specific masks with specific seals that have to be used. Because all of our faces are different.

30:47

All of our shapes are different. For an N95 mask to work, you have to have something that goes on your face and it has to seal all the way around.

30:55

And if it doesn't seal, guess what happens? You breathe and where does the air come out at?

31:00

All around where the seal's not broken. I mean, this is no different than if you have a garden hose and you poke a hole in the side of it.

31:07

Where's the water going to start coming out at? It's going to start shooting out the side. Well, if we don't have a mask on...

31:13

And that's what's crazy. Even these types of cloth masks, these don't actually lock onto our face.

31:20

Wait, wait, wait. Put that on. We've got to get the picture of the video of that. Well, I'm not actually putting it on. I'm just pretending to. He just coughed in that.

31:27

Tell him to go wash it. But these don't actually seal on our skin. So we have air that's unfiltered being blown out the sides of our mask anyway.

31:38

And even when you're wearing these so -called medical masks as you're walking around grocery stores and whatnot, these aren't fitted to your face.

31:46

They're blowing out the sides. They're blowing out the bottom through your chin. I mean, feel it. Start talking or breathing through these masks and start feeling around.

31:54

You'll see air coming out everywhere. Okay, but the argument that will be made is that it's going to block some of it.

32:01

It's going to reduce some of it. Now, they're trying to say, well, we've got to stay six feet apart, social distancing, because that's how far the...

32:08

If you have COVID and you sneeze or cough, the aerosol can travel that far before it falls to the ground.

32:15

And so that's why the six feet distancing and the mask is going to bring it down to two foot or one foot distancing is the argument.

32:22

So we should wear masks so that if we have it, we're not spreading it as far. Yeah, that's what they say.

32:29

But again, we go back to the droplet issue, that yes, it can block droplets. It can block that type of heavy moisture until it dries.

32:36

As we continue to breathe, so we cough, droplets get caught in the mask, we continue to breathe 15, 30, 45 seconds, it dries, and now the viruses are blown right back out.

32:47

This is what's really interesting, too. This six foot rule, do you recognize? Now, there's...

32:55

I've got to tell everybody here. There is zero research that supports a six foot rule.

33:02

There's nothing. There is also zero research that supports some of the stats you're hearing today, which is you're 65 % less likely to catch coronavirus wearing a mask and 75 % less likely if you and the other person is wearing a mask.

33:18

But I saw it on CNN. It's on the news. It wouldn't be fake news, would it?

33:24

Yeah. We've all been asking for these double blind placebo studies that have been done to test this.

33:32

This science has not been done. They have not done research on this. I can also tell you as a dentist...

33:37

You can find these videos on YouTube, by the way. What they did is they simulated drilling on a patient.

33:45

Water and all that kind of stuff. What they're doing is... This is part of OSHA in seeing what surfaces do we have to clean in a dental office to disinfect in between patients.

33:56

As the patient's sitting there on the chair and you're doing drilling, what they did is they put red dye not that you can see.

34:05

You can only see with a UV light. They put a red dye into the drill water.

34:11

This is aerosolized stuff. Same stuff that would be coming out of our lungs. They were drilling on this dummy head.

34:18

When they got done drilling, just for a few minutes, they stopped the procedure. They shut off the lights and took out the black light to see where all the splatter went.

34:28

It traveled 10 to 12 feet. So you're saying we need 10 to 12 feet distance.

34:35

Don't tell anybody that. 10 to 12 feet. Even then, that's only because you had walls stopping it.

34:43

We had 10 to 12 feet where it's slamming up on walls to the point that you can detect it, which shows how much an office is supposed to be disinfecting the surfaces between patients.

34:55

Aerosols go a whole lot farther than 6 feet. Some evidence shows it might be 25 or 30 feet for aerosols.

35:03

You're saying that science doesn't support the mask. There's another thing that you've talked about with your background with the dentist office.

35:11

The way people clean the surfaces are not doing anything as well. What we see people do, in between every customer, you go to the grocery store, they spray something on there and then immediately wipe it down.

35:25

That's supposed to be to disinfect. Does that actually disinfect? No. Let me tell you the process that we have to do in the dental office or in medical offices.

35:36

Assuming they didn't put something, a different chemical, into a different bottle to use, you're not supposed to do that with chemicals.

35:45

It's against OSHA standards. Assuming that the chemical belongs to the bottle that it's in, every bottle is going to have what's called a kill time on it.

35:56

There's certain standards set that tuberculosis, which is notoriously the hardest thing to kill on surfaces, we want to know what the

36:04

TB kill time is. Whatever the TB kill time is, tuberculosis, we know that other things will be dead in the time it takes tuberculosis to be broken down and not be infectious.

36:16

Every chemical has this. The fastest, quickest one on the market is ones that are made with pure hydrogen peroxide.

36:27

Half a percent, one percent hydrogen peroxide. It's put in a stable form in this bottle.

36:33

That has a one minute kill time for TB as well as coronavirus and others. Most of the chemicals that are used though in industry are actually three to seven minute kill times.

36:46

What does this mean? This is what you're supposed to be doing according to OSHA. If you don't do this, your office can get fined and literally shut down.

36:55

You have to spray your surfaces or wipe your surfaces, either one. You have to spray or wipe to remove any types of stuff you can see on the surfaces and stuff you can't see.

37:08

You're wiping down all the macromolecules as you wipe everything down. It's not really cleaning, but once you've cleaned the surface, once you've taken that first pass, you now have to go back over the surface a second time right away and either spray it all down and then leave it untouched for the kill time.

37:31

Or you have to wipe it and leave it wet for the kill time, which means that if your kill time is five minutes, and I guarantee you the stuff that is being used in stores like your

37:42

Home Depots and whatnot is not the expensive one minute kill time stuff that I use in the dental office. They're using the three, five, seven minute kill times, which means that for a surface to actually be disinfected, you have to spray it, wipe it, spray it, and then let it sit wet until the kill time is up, and then you can either wipe it down or just let it continue to just evaporate.

38:11

That's the reality. That's not what's going on in any stores at all. After this break, what

38:19

I want to do is I want to move to talking about some different things, specifically,

38:25

I'm thinking specifically of this thing we brought up earlier, of fear, why we think there is why are the masks being put out there for us to wear, what is behind all this, and then after that, we'll start to move to a biblical perspective right after this break.

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to host a Bible interpretation made easy seminar in your area. Alright, and for those who are not patrons, those that are not supporting us on Patreon, you may want to, at least for this episode, to see, you know,

40:21

Bud has found a good use for his mask as a decorative item. And so...

40:28

That'll help. That'll help, yeah. Actually, you know, Bud, that will help because now it actually acts as a backdrop so that, you know, if you're in a room that is, you know, where you're recording and there's just nothing to absorb sound, that actually is a good...

40:44

You may have something there that you could use the face masks to absorb sound instead of putting those foam cushions in front of the microphone to absorb...

40:52

You know, we should, you know, mark that. Folks will have to just go become

40:57

Patreons to see what you did. Make it your own. Okay, so,

41:02

Anthony, let's talk about, we mentioned earlier this fear -mongering, as you put it. What is...

41:10

I mean, I mentioned last week's episode on why I think that politically people started using these masks as a way to get fear, controlling people.

41:20

This is something that... It was interesting politically how almost overnight when we had

41:29

Trump saying that, you know, and Dr. Fasci, by the way, everyone wants to forget this, that it was Dr.

41:34

Fasci that was saying masks aren't effective. And then Trump supporting that and claiming that and as soon as Trump said it, all of a sudden, like overnight, every

41:43

Democrat, every news agency, everyone had to wear a mask. In fact, we're even supposed to...

41:49

And I saw this from a company that said that we're even supposed to wear masks like we're doing right now on a Zoom call, right?

41:55

Because we're talking to Bud on Zoom. And I'm watching people in these Zoom meetings when they're in their home alone and they got their mask on their face during a

42:05

Zoom call with no one in the house. That is clearly not to protect... I mean, the coronavirus does not work through the airwaves to the electronics and pass through that way, through the internet, right?

42:17

So requiring a mask when you're on a video call clearly has absolutely nothing to do with science.

42:25

But you brought it up, I brought it up, fear. How are they using masks to instill fear in people?

42:33

Well, look, here's the reality, and I think we just need to speak out.

42:39

Should a Christian fear death? No. Right?

42:45

We don't fear... Why? Because we know that we've got something better after this. Yeah, that's right.

42:52

So we don't have fear. We have to recognize, first and foremost, fear is because people fear death.

43:01

Most of this world, unsaved, they fear death, which should... which should cause us to go out and preach the

43:08

Gospel more, as Christians, right? That should be our response. Well, I was going to say, and I know you've run into this, because I've run into it, and you're far more faithful in regards to evangelism than I am, but when

43:19

I run into people, they are legitimately afraid. Nonbelievers, legitimately, and I don't try and absolve them.

43:27

You need to be afraid, but here's what you need to be afraid of. It's not this disease. It would be what would happen if you die of this disease or a car accident when you leave your office.

43:39

That's what you need to fear, because you're going to face God. You're going to face judgment, and you have no hope, and you have no

43:46

God, and give the Gospel. So in that sense, it's been a great opportunity for evangelism.

43:53

Yeah, absolutely. You know, one of my favorite verses recently in evangelism has been

44:00

Hebrews 10 .31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. So I can transition really fast about somebody's fear right into this verse.

44:10

And of course, the verse before that says, For we know him who said, Vengeance is mine, I will repay.

44:16

And again, the Lord will judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. You know, this gives us a wonderful segue into talking to somebody about spiritual matters, what they're truly afraid of.

44:29

They're not afraid of coronavirus. They're afraid of the results of, or potential results, of coronavirus.

44:36

That's the bottom line as we talk about fear. But the thing that I've noticed is with this whole fake pandemic, which it is, because when you look at what a pandemic is, and you look at the actual numbers of people who are getting this and dying from this, it's not at the pandemic level.

44:55

It is a disease that's affecting the world, but it's not a pandemic as they originally predicted.

45:01

And just to clarify, the virus is real, but what we're claiming it's capable of doing is not.

45:10

And the fear that people are having is that because people are using this virus to drive fear, what's happening is that they're providing basically a false narrative for this so that they could drive the fear for political purposes, in my mind.

45:30

We'll get to that. But they're using it, not looking at the science.

45:37

Because there aren't enough, there's not enough results that we see in people dying that this is some pandemic.

45:46

But yet, we saw how people are using this to shame other people.

45:53

We had this at the store where a woman was upset with someone for not wearing a mask and even said, because the person says,

46:03

I have a health condition, which they do. By the way, I was going to mention this earlier, when I had to go into the doctor's office at the hospital for something they require you to wear a mask.

46:15

They went to take my blood oxygen level. Now they had a problem.

46:20

The mask was restricting my breathing. I was breathing carbon dioxide, not oxygen, and I almost got to dangerous levels.

46:27

I was at 96 % and 95 % is where they start having concern. So me wearing a mask restricts my breathing and breathing that carbon dioxide can actually put me in an unhealthy condition.

46:39

So I can't wear a mask. This other person is in a similar situation.

46:45

He had someone that actually turned and said, you're not supposed to wear... I can't wear a mask because of a health condition.

46:53

You're not wearing the mask to protect yourself. You're supposed to wear it to protect me. That is the problem.

47:00

They think the mask is going to protect you wearing a mask. The mask you're wearing doesn't protect you, but somehow someone else wearing a mask is going to protect you when it's not protecting them.

47:11

It just shows the nonsense of it. It's clearly not...

47:17

Even when that person is saying that, they recognize that the mask they're wearing does not protect them, which is a question you always ask people.

47:23

When they say, do you have a mask? You usually say, does your mask work? When they say yes, you go, okay, then you're fine.

47:31

If they say no, you say then you should take it off. What are you wearing it for anyway? Or the other thing you've been doing where someone points to the mask and what do you say then?

47:39

I say, it's blue. Somebody actually did that to me yesterday.

47:45

Virtue signaled, she's pointing like this. I go, it's blue. She started laughing. The mask is being said that it's to protect others.

47:55

This is the reason I was given on the flight of why I should wear a non -vented mask was to protect others.

48:00

If the mask I'm wearing doesn't protect me, how is the mask I'm wearing going to protect others?

48:06

Well, it's not. It just seems amazing that overnight they went to well, everyone's got to wear a mask.

48:14

How is this notion of wearing a mask? How do we see that being used to control people?

48:21

Again, it's fear. Think about this. We've literally woken up one day in bizarro world where everybody's walking around with face coverings.

48:34

As the numbers have come out, Bud, you said it earlier. Originally, we had numbers that were touting millions of people were going to die from coronavirus early on.

48:44

Tens of millions, if not half the country is going to be infected pretty quickly, the way they were saying it.

48:52

They were talking about how you can catch it on surfaces for three days. Nonsense, by the way.

48:57

You can live on surfaces for three days. You can live in the air for days. All kinds of stuff. The governors and president to a degree all kept saying the whole thing we need to do is just flatten the curve.

49:13

The reason why we're going to have all kinds of deaths that they were predicting is because of a fast spread of the virus more so than what the hospitals could handle.

49:21

The hospitals were going to be overloaded. They wouldn't be able to treat patients and we'd get lots and lots of deaths. In the meantime, you've got hospitals, temporary hospitals that are being built in New York City and other areas by the military and National Guard to be able to have extra beds when needed.

49:41

What ends up happening? Within just a few weeks of this all starting, I have friends who are getting laid off around the country, nurses and doctors, because their hospitals, all of a sudden, they don't have the regular work they're doing and they're not getting the coronavirus patients they were anticipating.

49:58

Yeah, infections were rising, but the reality is that within three and a half to four weeks after all of this process started, so to speak, the curve had already been flattened.

50:09

The very reason why people were to be cautious, the reason why they shut down the economy, shut down the country, was to make sure the hospitals wouldn't get overloaded.

50:17

We found out pretty quickly it wasn't going to happen. We had plenty of room.

50:23

The thing there is, and you hit on it, when we started this 14 days to slow the spread, that's exactly what it was.

50:32

It was to slow the spread. It was not a cure. Now everyone's arguing this is a cure. The thing that gets me is you look at places like Hong Kong and China and Japan where wearing a face covering ever since SARS became commonplace, and yet they also are suffering with COVID.

50:54

If the majority of people are wearing masks, then they should have been protected, and yet it spread there as well with lots of people wearing a mask.

51:03

And guess what? It spread in some of those places even faster than America when you look at it per million. That's one thing they never want to do.

51:09

They don't want to look at per million. China probably has way more than America, but they're not giving those numbers.

51:16

We're doing far more testing, so we have better numbers than anybody, but we also have more people than most of the other countries.

51:23

So when you look at per million, the United States affection rate with COVID, we're like 10 in the world.

51:30

When you look at death rate, we're like 11 in the world. It's just that we have more people, so you've got to look at it as an apples to apples per million.

51:38

When you do so, you realize that these other countries where wearing a face covering is common did not protect them any more than it did here in America.

51:48

They had just as many people get it, if not more. They had people who died from it, if not more.

51:55

When we look at the masks, I just go, let's just use common sense here and realize this is not supporting a mandate, but it does support controlling a population.

52:08

It's interesting when you actually look at the raw numbers about the curve was flattened.

52:15

It was flattened early. They should have started opening up the country. They didn't. They kept moving the goalposts. They kept changing their supposed endgame.

52:23

But as time has gone on, we have looked at numbers like in the state of Ohio where I reside. It was either beginning of June or beginning of July.

52:31

They looked at the total number of deaths in Ohio this year versus the last five years. And guess what?

52:37

Did it go up significantly? Nope. No, well, the fact is you see these reports about higher numbers of positive tests.

52:50

That's a good thing because what does that mean? The actual fatality rate is getting much, much lower.

52:57

Yeah, that's right. And part of the issue, too, as we've seen with the fear -mongering is as states have increased their antibody testing, which means that you had it at some point.

53:10

You may have never even gotten sick because your God -given immune system actually worked the way it was supposed to work.

53:19

You didn't get sick, but you still test for it. And they were adding those to the numbers.

53:24

So when Arizona supposedly had their flare -up back in late June, early July, and Florida had their flare -up, it wasn't new coronavirus cases and more people getting sick again.

53:35

It was the antibody testing that they're now adding to the rolls, the number of people who had coronavirus.

53:42

So, yeah, it's been really disturbing. One of the things that's been interesting, too, is that they looked at numbers of total deaths in Ohio.

53:51

I don't know about the United States, but in Ohio, up until about a month ago, and not only was it negligible in terms of difference between previous years, but it appears now that there's less deaths this year than there were last year.

54:09

Well, I think Ohio's one of those states that has a mask mandate, so that has probably helped you guys.

54:15

That's what did it. Yeah, that's what they would like to tell us, right? You recognize in Ohio, and this is funny, you go to the big cities, and granted,

54:25

I'm one of the few people that are walking around with no mask on. I haven't worn a mask since day one walking into places.

54:32

You rebellious! I'm rebellious. No, I just don't want to lie. So I walk around without a mask, but you know what?

54:38

Once you get out of the big city and you get into suburbs and you get into some more rural areas, nobody's wearing masks.

54:45

Nobody has them on. This is only in big city areas where you see people doing it.

54:52

So you brought this up. You said you don't want to tell a lie. So does wearing a mask promote a lie?

55:00

I believe it does because that means I'm buying into the narrative in what the government and some scientists in front of cameras are saying.

55:10

They're saying that these protect you. I know better. They don't. So I'm not going to lie by wearing a mask on my face.

55:20

It goes hand in hand with fear because that's the other part of it. Part of this is a scientific response for people to see, and we recognize they're unbelievers, so they're not going to see it the way we do as believers, but the other half of it is

55:33

I'm not going to live in fear either. Okay, so after this break what I want to do is let's talk about a biblical perspective.

55:41

We understand science, not supporting it, and we know we're going to go a little bit longer here today, folks, but we wanted to give you guys some of the science behind it because that's what's being attacked.

55:50

That's what we're being told we're ignorant on. It's strange that it's the Christians using science and the politicians using the words.

55:58

So we know who's giving lip service and who has data. But after this break I want to talk about the biblical ramifications and biblical arguments.

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57:33

Alright, so as we come back what I want to do is you know

57:39

I want to play something from Alistair Begg and that might set the stage.

57:45

I did want to ask you a question I'm afraid, but I think that if I ask this next question you brought it up in the chat

57:53

I was going to ask this, but since you put it in the chat I now have to mention it but this may be a whole nother show.

58:01

You mentioned masks today vaccines tomorrow, Mark of the Beast later conditioning

58:08

One of the questions I wanted to ask, and I know Dr. Silvestro's position on this so I know it's going to be a long one, so that's why

58:15

I didn't ask it but now we have to. So, really quick Anthony Are vaccines going to be a magic bullet to solve this?

58:24

No. No. Look, I'm going to say this

58:30

Here we go. Dr. Sherry Tenpenny is a good friend of mine from the

58:37

Cleveland area She is a world -known researcher world -known holistic doctor

58:43

She's a medical doctor, trained medical doctor for years went into the holistic side of things If you read anything on vaccinations or against vaccinations her name will be mentioned somewhere in the paper or somewhere in the research and we are going to have her on in some shows here in the near future

58:59

On the Apologetics Live On Apologetics Live Maybe I'll have her here to walk through some of these issues

59:08

There's a whole lot with vaccinations I'm not going to get into all of it today of the harm that many of them cause

59:15

But I will tell you this Because unlike when you do Apologetics Live for me and you do a 5 hour show which is supposed to be a 2 hour show

59:21

You notice this bud Every show he comes on goes long It's not my fault

59:30

In Apologetics Live you have people in the comments who are like, hey, let's go a little longer I'm like, okay, we're going to go a little longer

59:36

Three hours later But no In all seriousness The type of virus that coronavirus is

59:45

They don't work well in vaccinations What you're not going to hear unless you start going onto different websites to see the people that have been harmed by these types of, specifically this type of vaccine for this type of virus

01:00:00

Gardasil has been a vaccine that's been out there for several years It's supposed to be for females

01:00:06

It's given to males too For HPV, because if you prevent HPV you will also prevent the cervical cancers and oral cancers that can be caused by HPV So they've been giving

01:00:18

Gardasil vaccines to people once they become of what secular people call the sexual age

01:00:24

You know, teenage years And there has been a path of destruction left with the original

01:00:31

Gardasil vaccines Women Athletes across the country have given it to them in teenage years that are paralyzed

01:00:41

Some from the waist down Others who have muscle issues Muscle control issues

01:00:47

There's a decent percentage And I'm not saying 50 % I'm saying 5 % of women who have gotten this have had major permanent ill effects from this type of vaccination

01:01:01

The same thing is going to happen if we rush a vaccine First of all, I'm never taking it

01:01:07

But if we rush a vaccine for the same type of virus We don't know what's in this So let's share this from Alistair Begg Bud, you had sent this

01:01:17

So let's interact with this Well here I am all masked up and trying to make sure that I am obeying the rules and paying attention

01:01:29

But it's really pretty difficult I wanted to let you know that I along with everyone else have been trying my best to make sure that I don't invade other people's privacy or dishearten them in any way

01:01:45

But we've really developed a couple of distinct parties The masked party and the non -masked party

01:01:51

And I was saying to our pastoral team the other day that Romans 14 I think is a bit of a help in this insofar as the people that Paul is addressing were equally committed to Jesus and they were strong in their faith and yet he describes some as weak and some as strong and the issue there again is not a matter of their spiritual stability but it is their perspective on things, debatable matters in the case of Romans 14 diets and special days

01:02:23

And I think there are some principles that apply as we try and navigate these strange waters now

01:02:30

And I think that Paul's advice earlier than chapter 14 where I think it's in chapter 12, he says, inasmuch as it is possible for you try to live in peace with one another

01:02:43

So as we think of being back in one another's company let's pay heed to that and let's not judge one another but prefer one another in love

01:02:53

Okay, so let's deal with what he's saying there because, you know it was interesting because I, first off I don't, you know, he's talking about masks not masks.

01:03:06

Is this a privacy issue? I didn't know how that worked in How is this privacy?

01:03:14

I didn't get that one but let us deal with a biblical argument for this. He brings up Romans 14

01:03:20

Romans 14 deals with the idea of eating things that were offered unto idols, eating things that could cause someone else to stumble, eating things that would cause you to stumble.

01:03:29

In other words, sinning against your conscience I'll say this and then

01:03:35

Bud and Anthony get your feedback, but I think if there is someone who believes that them not wearing a mask is a sin.

01:03:46

In other words, if they're believing that they're protecting their neighbor because that's how a lot of people are using it

01:03:53

Alistair used it in a different way of privacy I don't get that one, but I understand people that use the argument saying this is to love my neighbor but, you know, there becomes a whole lot in that.

01:04:04

Is this really showing love to a neighbor? I know, Anthony you're going to probably get into the fact that showing love to your neighbor is to not lie to them and cause them to be in fear.

01:04:14

Because that's what wearing a mask is doing. It is driving people to be afraid of something that they don't need to be afraid of with the level of fear that we have

01:04:23

We don't fear the flu We know we're going to get sick and you see with even

01:04:28

President Trump three days later, he's symptom free Okay, now granted, he I'm sure got the best medicine and all that but then make that available and then we can go on with life

01:04:40

But what I end up seeing with it is first off, if someone thinks they're in sin by not wearing a mask then don't sin against your conscience

01:04:48

I'll say the same thing the other way as well If someone thinks it's a sin to wear a mask, they shouldn't be encouraged to wear a mask

01:04:56

And I think that's what Alistair was trying to say is we shouldn't be judging one another. In our church I don't know about Bud for your church and Anthony for yours, but in our church we don't have a requirement for wearing a mask.

01:05:08

We have a set of seats in the center where people that don't care to social distance, don't care to wear a mask they sit there.

01:05:16

We have seats on the wings where anybody who comes in with a mask, we encourage them to sit there because if they're wearing a mask, they're showing that they have concern.

01:05:24

We've instructed folks that if you see someone with a mask you keep some distance there because it's showing respect to that person

01:05:31

And so we've set church up so that those that want to wear masks, they can be there protected, no one judges them

01:05:40

Those that don't want to wear a mask, they can all sit together. But this is the thing

01:05:47

I would be looking at Is this an issue where you have a stronger brother and a weaker brother and you don't want to put a temptation for them to stumble in front of them

01:05:58

He's using that this is an argument but I think this is the best that they can come up with There's not some clear passage that's going to answer this question but we have principles that we could use

01:06:11

With that as a backdrop Bud, I'll start off with you because you've been kind of quiet today

01:06:17

Oh, I'm sorry Anthony was complaining during the break We've got to let Bud speak

01:06:23

I felt bad Is this going to be five hours? I'm going to have to leave with my wife

01:06:29

This is the Bud brief I think that the issues are very complicated

01:06:36

When you move it into the realm of what does it look like for me to be faithful You have churches that in sort of an appeal to Romans 13 and they have a mayor or they have some edict from the governing authorities that have said you've got to do this, you can still meet and in Florida we've been pretty well able to continue meeting but certain counties have requirements that you've got to wear masks

01:07:05

A church has chosen the elders have determined we're going to do this, we're going to require masking and provide like you're doing

01:07:13

Andrew for social distancing but they're also requiring masks

01:07:18

A believer in that church who is required to submit to the elders we don't suspect anything nefarious they've got noble motives how do you counsel somebody in that situation who they may be opposed to the mask and not only that they may also have a medical condition, maybe they're asthmatic they can't wear that what does it look like for them to be faithful within the body of the local church so you have an appeal to a

01:07:51

Romans 13 situation you have an appeal to the royal law of your neighbor and then you also have an issue of Christian liberty which

01:08:03

I'm concerned that in some of the conversations I've had we are really easily capable of confusing our constitutional liberties with what our

01:08:14

Christian liberties are so that's another issue so it's very convoluted but the person who's in the church their elders have decided you've got to wear masks they don't want to, what do you tell them?

01:08:28

Anthony, you're the guest say this question again I want to make sure

01:08:35

I heard it clearly so a church, the elders have determined they're going to wear masks the local government has said you've got to mask up so they're going to do that in the worship service you can't come unless you're a man and an individual has a problem with that, it's a member of the church they want to be faithful what should they do?

01:08:56

let me ask this as a broader question is not wearing a mask a violation of obedience to your government in Romans 13?

01:09:04

I did a Facebook live video on this back in April where do rights come from for people?

01:09:12

because I don't think a Christian does any good service if we are mixing what you just said bud, if we're mixing our

01:09:19

Christian rights with constitutional rights but I think the thing we have to make sure we understand is that our constitutional rights at least as we read in the

01:09:29

Declaration of Independence and our constitution is based off of a correct understanding, a biblical understanding that our rights come from God, a creator

01:09:37

God and so from a secular perspective when people are saying we have to follow

01:09:44

Romans 13 or 1 Peter 2 those are the other verses that talk about this, and I would dispute people on some of the interpretations out there, but here's the thing if you're going to be submissive to the government at all costs, which again

01:10:00

I don't think that's a biblical position, but if you're going to be submissive to the government at all costs, which part of the government do you listen to?

01:10:07

What is the law of the land, our constitution and bill of rights or these mandates that do not have the ability even if you pass them the law to supersede the constitution of the land

01:10:21

I think that even when people try to use the Romans 13 argument, it fails, because ultimately our constitution trumps any law that anybody could ever make in this country so that's one major problem

01:10:40

I think that any type of pastors that would make that type of mandate we need to talk to them

01:10:47

I think they need to recognize their error in their ways, because again from a constitutional perspective that's a problem now of course

01:10:56

I make the argument in Romans 13 1 Peter 2 that we see yes we're to be submissive to government but at the very same time that we're supposed to be submissive to government

01:11:05

God also says that the government is a servant of God whose responsibility is to punish the wicked and allow the good to continue

01:11:15

I'm paraphrasing of course but this is what the government's responsibility is when they are not carrying out that responsibility we have now a responsibility to reject what the government says and follow

01:11:27

God now where that fine line sits, we can debate but I do see that dichotomy there that has to be dealt with and I've seen way too many people from the beginning of this just say bow down to government, bow down to government, bow down to government, without really thinking through this at all and unfortunately a lot of pastors have done this as well when it comes to Alistair Begg, I'm very disappointed with his response by the way throughout this entire process

01:11:56

I live in a suburb of Cleveland I could drive east 45 minutes and attend

01:12:01

Alistair Begg's church or I could attend the church I attend which is 25 minutes west and it's a small

01:12:08

Reformed Baptist church so I could go to either one we live under the same so called we live under the same so called mandates in Ohio same governor, same area of town in the

01:12:23

Cleveland suburbs so we live under the same rule why is it that some churches didn't close at all, some

01:12:32

Baptist churches, they just kind of went under the radar and didn't close, why is it some churches like ours said you know what let's give the benefit of the doubt, let's close for a few weeks let's see what happens and once we recognize that this was tomfoolery especially with the whole flattening of the curve and seeing that they didn't really care about flattening of the curve, the curve was flattened and they still wanted to hammer down more on Ohioans our church and many other small churches decided to open, we went through Romans 13

01:13:04

Romans 14, our elders put out a statement regarding their view on these passages and that in Romans 14, look yes, if you want to wear a mask, wear a mask if you don't want to wear a mask, don't wear a mask don't violate your conscience, we have areas of the church that are sectioned off, that if you don't want to be around people you want to maintain a social distance, here are places you can sit where people without masks, they won't sit there, so we've established all those things,

01:13:31

I'm just disappointed a guy of the stature and clout as Alistair Begg took five months longer to come to that decision than a lot of faithful, small church pastors have done across the country yeah and I think the thing is that you see a lot of these well -known preachers pastors who are criticizing people, while they're saying not to judge and yet, they were being critical of people who were saying you know what, we want to keep meeting and so yeah,

01:14:07

I do have some concern there as well and I will say this, I was really, really hoping for MacArthur to open early

01:14:16

I was disappointed that he didn't I was disappointed it took so long the thing I have learned through this process though is

01:14:25

John MacArthur he played everybody he was a chess master he and his elders were a chess master in how they handled the situation because they literally gave all the grace they could possibly humanly give to the point of being completely above reproach in how they handled the governor and handled the situation in California for months literally blameless and while they did this, they got all their ducks in order behind the scenes with the federal judges that are elders and attend church at his church the sheriffs that attend at his church all the people of power he got all that stuff in line everybody on board ready to go including a phone call from President Trump that we all knew about several weeks before he actually said it out loud to mainstream people he methodically got this all done in order so that when he came out, he was ready and so when a couple weeks ago when the court came out with another ruling saying oh you need to close and I have people calling me asking me do you think

01:15:34

MacArthur's going to close this Sunday? do you think he's going to close again? I'm like no way, he's in this he's so in this right now because he spent all this time preparing getting an order and I think what

01:15:47

MacArthur did is vastly different than what Alistair Begg did who just didn't bother opening because he was kowtowing to the fear mongering going on.

01:15:54

And the way that MacArthur did this with the way he opened, one, it became national news, two it became an encouragement for other churches which is why he did it the way he did it but there is a difference there are other churches that tried to open up and got in trouble with the government they have lawsuits and they lost because of their arguments.

01:16:18

What is MacArthur's argument? His argument is not for against the health issues or the mandates, he's actually arguing for the constitution yep, the first amendment correct, he's arguing with the constitution and that is what's making it difficult because the way they laid out the argument the government cannot go against their own constitution it's in the constitution we have the right to assemble and that argument is one that they're having a hard time with and because of this this will then set the precedent where every other church can argue to open up based on the first amendment and one by one they're going to fall we're already seeing governors where the supreme courts, the state supreme courts are overruling these mandates that they're doing, saying they're too far reaching they don't have the authority to do these things

01:17:11

I think these things are going to continue but when we look at this biblically oh, it looks like you were going to say something before you...

01:17:19

yeah, I mean, I just wanted to read the first amendment for people because this is what MacArthur is using here's the first amendment,

01:17:25

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press or of the right of the people to peaceably assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievance that's literally the language of the first amendment, so this is what

01:17:43

MacArthur is going towards is this proper understanding of what the rule of the land actually is but here's what's even more interesting about this is at the same time that California and Governor Newsom are banning churches they are allowing under the same clause the homosexuals to gather together in their parades in June and July they're allowing

01:18:07

BLM to gather and what they were calling peaceably assemble we know it wasn't peaceable, but haven't you heard the news that they were peaceful, it was,

01:18:16

Trump was sending people in to do rioting and looting to make it look like they weren't peaceful that was all Trump, don't you know that?

01:18:23

even though they were saying the rioting and looting was for reparations but that's a big problem because you look at the first amendment of the constitution and you're allowing rioters and looters and people to when they say peaceably protest or peaceably assemble, well you know what the religious argument is the exact same amendments

01:18:44

I think this is where a lot of people said enough is enough when churches weren't allowed to open when you're being told you can't worship

01:18:54

God indoors, outdoors you're not allowed to sing all these rules

01:18:59

I mean outdoors you had to be distanced and limited to 10 % of the people outside things like this and yet you can have people by the thousands gathering on the streets, shoulder to shoulder setting things on fire, throwing stones at police and all that the hypocrisy

01:19:17

I think is what ended it for most people but the issue I think we do have to end on is this idea that although we may be of the position that masks scientifically are not going to support you they're not going to protect you we do have to be aware biblically that there are some who are following the news and are getting all afraid for them we would want to encourage them that for the

01:19:45

Christian we don't fear death we shouldn't be fearing these things does that mean we don't protect ourselves?

01:19:50

no, protect yourself, but if the mask is not protection, then why do it? if you're helping the government to instill fear against the church, because that's what they really want to come against especially in California but why would we want to further a lie?

01:20:09

why would we want to further instill fear in people? if it comes to our fellow brother and sister if they have that fear we don't just say, grow up we need to disciple them, but it starts with doing things that won't cause your brother to stumble so we want to educate them, not just tell them to get over it we need to educate them which is what

01:20:34

I hope this show is doing is to give some of the science that's why I wanted to talk with Dr. Silvestro so you have the science, you have the understanding but then biblically we need to stand up because if we don't stand up now we're not going to be able to stand up later when they further it it really is like Bud was saying the mask today, vaccines tomorrow mark of the beast after that it really is because this is all conditioning this is only phase one folks do not think that those that are the anti -godders in this world who want to control the

01:21:14

Marxists do not think that this is the end of this this is only the trial run they're watching this to see how they can more effectively control a mass of people they're going to find another way to use fear so this pandemic which isn't really a pandemic we're going to see another pandemic that's not a pandemic

01:21:35

I'm sure somewhat soon when it's convenient for them and they're learning how to use fear to control people to get not only their way but to silence

01:21:50

God's people if you're noticing across the country it's only two groups of religious people that are being told they can't worship.

01:22:00

I find this very interesting I'll go to New York for the example Resurrection Sunday came about churches can't be open they were warned, you cannot have church open they're going to arrest people, all this most recently in New York just this week you're seeing protests in New York which somehow those protests have to be immediately stopped, the police are coming in and stopping it right away, why?

01:22:23

because you have a lot of Jewish people that are being restricted for the Jewish holidays and they're being told they cannot serve their

01:22:31

God they're not allowed to worship on a holiday but when it was

01:22:37

Ramadan you know what New York did? Ramadan not only set up like 70, 75 places where they could get halal food, the city what happened to separation of church and state?

01:22:45

the city provided food they can cook in their homes there's no other restaurants they provided food, they even went into the mosques the mayor went into the mosque to mark out where people can kneel and pray that's far enough apart wait a minute, the churches can't gather the synagogues can't gather but the

01:23:05

Muslims, the city was coming in and helping them so this is not a cross the board thing this is clearly targeted to specific religious groups and so this is

01:23:20

I think an issue where Christians do need to stand up and say enough is enough kind of like MacArthur did, say look we've tried to do all we can to honor the government, to love our neighbor but at this point this is something else, now this is something where it is more than just our religious freedoms, it is the controlling of people for a system of government that wants to end

01:23:44

Christianity we need to stand up now Anthony any last words you have

01:23:52

I think you guys have said this best, this is literally a test run for what else the

01:23:59

Marxists want to do in this country I think they've known that fear is the way to be able to control people the quickest and to watch how many people folded so fast and for so long has given them an unbelievable blueprint to do exactly what they want to do in the coming years

01:24:19

Bud any last comments from you No I would just say we have to recognize that there is a spiritual side to this and we have a sovereign

01:24:28

God who is for his glory, for our good, those that love him, allowing this to go on and there may be watershed moments that come along like I think

01:24:36

MacArthur and that whole situation could be that we need to be very keen about and be in prayer for those things because we have an enemy and he is the

01:24:50

God of this world and our Lord is allowing all of this to go on and we need to prayerfully and biblically consider what's it look like for us to be faithful through the midst of this and continue proclaiming the gospel but I would just mention

01:25:06

I'm still you know that verse I think from the message bible in Exodus, thou shalt not covet

01:25:18

I think you meant cover Oh covet not

01:25:23

COVID never mind well you know here's what we want to do in closing out we're going to be done

01:25:34

Bud this is a wrap for the wrap report however I did do an interview and I want to play that interview now on about a conference that is coming up shortly okay so I'm here today with a fellow who is running the cruciform conference and you may not have heard about this why haven't you you should have been paying attention but in case you didn't we're going to talk about a conference that's put on by cruciform ministries

01:26:03

Brandon how are you today I'm good I'm very good yeah there are some people

01:26:09

I don't know why they haven't heard of this conference I don't know why they got to start paying more attention huh

01:26:15

I agree because you got quite a line up here of speakers and before we get to that let's talk first about the conference it's goals it's mission and then get into this year's topic and some of the the topics some of the speakers so why'd you create this conference

01:26:32

I created this conference namely to help Indianapolis Indiana there's at the risk of offending a ton of people

01:26:39

I'll say it there's just not a lot of good churches that preach a lot of solid doctrine here and so I thought to myself how can

01:26:47

I get people at least somewhat excited about the Bible our churches here love programs events so on and it seemed wise to me to start a conference in order to get good doctrine into the city and so last year was our first year and I wound up just asking some friends if they would come and teach the

01:27:07

Bible for a couple days it's turned into a yearly thing and I don't know how long it will last but it's been fun so far and friends have been gracious to help out and then new friends that I make have been eager to jump in and help as well that's the primary reason

01:27:23

I started it so tell me about cruciform ministries what is it that you guys do what is the goal of it cruciform ministries exists to equip disciples of Jesus with the gospel of Jesus and primarily we do that through conferences right now and we have some online conferences we've done one on abortion we've done one on how to read your

01:27:46

Bible my friend Kofi which is really cool he did like a little three day seminar he will not be back this year but he will be back next year he says so he's a good guy and then we have another one coming up in December which might be somewhat polarizing to people on post millennialism so for or against it's going to be pro post millennialism but we also plan to and I've talked to some friends who shall remain nameless at this point doing one on amillennialism so not everybody on the cruciform team shares the same eschatology so we try to play nice you know you should do one on pro millennialism if there's a millennium we're all for it yeah so first time

01:28:30

I've heard an eschatology joke that wasn't just super cliche I haven't heard that one before so you get two thumbs up for that one usually people do the pan millennial which is why

01:28:41

I don't like the things that everyone does you know so let's talk about the conference itself the motivation for this conference is very similar to why

01:28:51

Striving Fraternity started our equip conferences it used to be our spreading the fire conferences across the country was the same thing same motivation to disciple to be able but we were more on we want to train people up because we didn't see a lot of good churches train people up and then get them out on the streets evangelizing so we used to have the conference really to gather people together so we had people to go evangelize with but it is a problem in a lot of areas where churches are well they've gone the way of the world

01:29:20

I guess is the easiest way to say it which really leads us into the topic for this year's conference it's very different than the way of the world and not one that many people want to talk about or have a conference on so what's this year's topic at the group support conference it's going to be on holiness the holiness of God our holiness and discipleship and then all these different kinds of we're just going to attack holiness from a myriad of different angles in God's case he's holy he's separate from sin there's a whole lot of ways we can explain this there is the fact that we have to live holy this is something the world doesn't want to talk about especially most of the churches

01:29:58

I mean a lot of the churches what they want to talk about is Jesus is your friend have a relationship with him isn't he so nice you know he just wants everything for you holiness kind of flies in the face of all that so who do you have coming who are some of the speakers and then we'll get into dates and location yeah so God willing our lineup is

01:30:25

Justin Peters your friend Anthony Mathenia Jeffrey Johnson Gabe Hughes so maybe

01:30:32

I should slow down so in case you don't know Justin Peters does the clouds without water seminars and many other things and I'm sure people are pretty aware of his ministry with John MacArthur and guys out there in California Anthony Mathenia does the media videos the

01:30:49

Behold Your God stuff he also pastors Christ Church Radford and then we have

01:30:55

Jeffrey Johnson who runs Free Grace Press as well as Grace Bible Theological Seminary and pastors

01:31:02

Grace Church in Conway Arkansas then you have the when we understand the text individual named

01:31:08

Gabe Hughes Justin Huffman a pastor in Canada but we won't hold that against him

01:31:14

Cole Dykey who is a church planter in Iowa who is just a young fiery preacher that everybody should listen to for sure you can go back and listen to if you are a pastor or a preacher or you aspire to be so his talk is going to be on holiness and the preacher and preaching so it's going to be good and then

01:31:34

Russell St. John many people might not know who he is but he is actually a pastor in St.

01:31:40

Louis Missouri he was my pastor actually while I was in seminary and he is probably one of the best preachers

01:31:47

I have ever heard so he will bless everyone for sure and then we have of course myself

01:31:53

Jonathan Hayashi Chris Huff and then we have a few guys doing some breakouts

01:32:00

Dwayne from the Bar podcast to be one and then my favorite breakout speaker besides you of course to talk about is

01:32:09

Michelle Leslie so she's going to come and she's been with us since day one and she does she sets up shop and does talks for the women both days and women only she refuses to let men in there for good reasons so it's going to be a good time and then of course you signed up to help us out as well we kind of worked out more last minute

01:32:32

I hadn't been doing too many speaking events COVID everything got shut down and I had some things going on in my church that required attention so I had stopped speaking events until we could work through that I talked about that on my podcast so let's talk about the dates location how people can get more information about this yeah to get more information you can go to cruciformministries .org

01:32:55

that's the slow way with many steps but you could just go to cruciformconference .com

01:33:01

and then you can click the get tickets so the price is going to be varied as of right now they are still in early bird prices but we will shoot that up at some point the dates are

01:33:13

October 23rd and 24th with a pre -conference being on the 22nd on the sanctity of human life or abortion and it's going to be in Indianapolis, Indiana at the church that I pastor

01:33:25

New Hope Church which is 2240 East 106th Street in Carmel, Indiana yeah so this is going to be it's coming up quick so get in your cars if you don't want to fly with a mask on and just start driving this new way of travel one thing that I know

01:33:45

I've been getting asked a lot, do I have to wear a mask? do I have to be social distance from everybody?

01:33:51

so for folks who are thinking about coming this is a big question nowadays, what are we going to do with that?

01:33:59

well we are not going to be requiring masks or demanding that people stand on dots in order to stay away from people however, we are going to be responsible and we will have hand sanitizer in many places, we will be keeping the place clean and so we're going to be very cognizant, you know, there being an illness about, however we're not going to get super worked up about it our church specifically, the congregation that I lead, we never closed our doors, now that doesn't mean that every single person came all the time but we have refrained from shutting our doors because the church is in fact essential and so you know, we don't get too worked up about it over at New Hope and we hope that that's not alarming to other people the dates again are going to be

01:34:46

October 23rd and 24th, this is going to be in Carmel, Indiana, if you're flying in you can fly into Indianapolis, you can go to cruciform so that's c -r -u c -i -f o -r -m ministries .org

01:35:04

and if you go there you're going to see the conference, I know you gave them the cruciform conference website but the reason

01:35:11

I wanted you guys to go cruciform ministries website is so that you can see the other conferences that they're putting together so this, the one on holiness the cruciform conference on holiness,

01:35:22

October 23rd, 24th you can go check that out but they also have the

01:35:28

Purchase Victory conference coming up in December that was mentioned some other conferences that you'll see coming up on there so you want to get in touch with that, with this ministry this website so you can track more of the events they got going on I hope to see everyone there at the cruciform conference this

01:35:44

October which is coming up soon, you got all the planning done there's nothing left for you to do right? Yeah there's always stuff popping up that I gotta deal with and different things like that.

01:35:56

Welcome to conference planning yeah yeah yeah so give folks an encouraging word, why should they come?

01:36:04

I would primarily say it'll just be an edifying time, I mean we've been cooped up in our house for the better part of the year now is a time where I think we're starting to get our feet back under us, we're starting to be brave enough to go to certain events

01:36:19

I think it'll just be good to just get in a room with a bunch of believers the family of God and to hear about Jesus and hear about what he calls us to.

01:36:30

The world is mad and we need now more than ever to arm ourselves with the correct weapons and the correct weapons against the world as it is, is holiness and it is also going to bring us closer to Jesus and I don't think there is a better topic for the day than holiness.

01:36:50

With that folks again October 22nd is the pre -conference 23rd, 24th,

01:36:56

Cruciform Conference in Carmel, Indiana the Cruciform Conference on Holiness, you do not want to miss this.

01:37:04

If you haven't heard some of the speakers that are there, you are going to want to be here to listen.

01:37:10

If you haven't heard guys like Justin Peters, Gabe Hughes you want to go and check this out, so make sure you sign up, register registration you can do at the door but it is better for planning purposes that you register online, so cruciformministries .org

01:37:27

is the Cruciform Conference we are looking forward to seeing you there.

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