James White vs. Nadir Ahmed, March 21, 2008 Part 10

Public Dispute Over Nabeel Qureshi and the Debate Atmosphere

Now in my last minute here, I've got to bring up another issue here, and you know people want to talk about me. They can go and talk about I don't care but Some of the comments I can't I can't really ignore you know because I guess someone was saying that I do something called muta Which is kind of can be used as a form of prostitution?

Okay, and I believe Nabil Qureshi Nabil you there? You know from what I heard from your parents and from a couple of witnesses here that you made some comments about me doing these Things and I believe I called you up, and I asked you you said that you said no you didn't but But your parents are saying yes, why did your parents say yes, and you're saying no?

Okay, but I guess what I'm wondering is why are your parents saying you said this about me, and I got another one. Yes, but well, I mean if people are gonna show see these things. I'm just kind of wondering.

You know what's going on here I Just trying to get down to the bottom that's because a lot of nasty rumors are yeah, you're on and this comes back. It hurts me right so you know I got Okay.

Trusting the New Testament and the Evidence for Jesus and the Gospel

Can't we trust what the New Testament tells us about Jesus and the gospel and Since you since you were tossing out the challenges the deer. Well, I think it's interesting that you're saying that Christians are running from you when you're on stage with a Christian debating.

But apart from that Sam Shimon has agreed to debate you on the prophet of the Mohammed. And if you'd like to focus on Archaeological and prophetic and scientific evidence I would accept to we can do it right here so At this point we'll have Questionable field question and answer from the audience so anyone would like to form a line.

You don't all have to jump in line at once. If anyone does have to leave this would be a Good time. If you have to go to sleep at a certain hour or something like that This would be the good time to step out.

Those who want to continue the discussion have a question answer. All right. Remember no speeches you have a few seconds to set up your question and so on but ask the question. Also point out to Which debater your questions for or if it's for or if it's for both of them and if it is directed towards one debater, I'll give that debater two minutes to answer and 30 seconds to a minute if the if the opponent would like to respond.

All right, so thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity, but I would Request you humbly. Please do not interrupt me. I'm not going to make a long speech.

You were my you were my professor once a long time ago, so you are the only exception. You're the one. You're getting. I have to limit you to two minutes though. You're doing two minutes.

First Audience Reaction to the Debate

First of all my overall impression of the debate. I Listen to both speakers very carefully, and I probably will leave you with the impression that.

Doctor okay, can everyone hear this microphone? Yeah, it is.

I think I think dr. Wright was very articulate. It was very polite. It was very respectful on the other hand my fellow Muslim brother. Mr. Nazir Emma was very rhetorical very impertinent at some times and Not very respectful.

Both to the audience as well as to the speaker. My compliment dr. Wright I think most of the time mr. Ahmed was asking give me a single evidence for the prophethood of heart. I think dr. White would have turned back and asked him the same question give me an empirical scientifically verifiable evidence for the prophethood of Muhammad Sallalahu Sallam and both claims stand and fall on the same theological assumptions.

My feeling is recently I read a piece by Chris hedges who had a debate with Sam Harris on So-called the God problem and he wrote. Chris edges wrote after the debate that those who came to the debate Liking Sam Harris left the debate liking Sam Harris.

I think this probably would happen tonight. As a Muslim I believe in the New Testament in the Old Testament in the Authenticity of these and I consider my Christian brothers as fellow believers. I think that no one can ever present any scientific evidence ever for topics such as these.

If you are debating about the Rationality of one health care plan against the other I would have said said he won he lost. But both of you you have won the debate because you presented your case, but I appreciate what?

People like you are doing.

Apostleship, Scripture, and the Limits of Scientific Proof

There's I Attempted to raise that issue by saying what is the stance a call to apostleship is a theological issue. It's not something you put under a microscope and yet for both Muslims and Christians we believe that God has spoken that he speaks in the form of scripture and Therefore to go to those scriptures and to demonstrate that within those scriptures We have historical evidence that Paul is accepted as an apostle by the other apostles.

I think it's quite relevant. I didn't have time this evening to go into the fact that there are early Interpretations, I believe surah 36 if I recall correctly where early Muslims Saw in the Quran a reference to the Apostle Paul that could not have developed that's found in the good there.

I could not have developed had there been this Rapacious rejection of him as some sort of innovator and creator of shirt and so I did try to raise that issue that you cannot provide a Computer evidence for the apostleship of Paul because it's it's a different area.

Yeah, I'm not here to win a popularity contest I already told you for a lot of people. Challenging people for the evidence for the religion a lot of people will take that as offensive very offensive. This isn't you know, I'm not here to make friends over here.

All right, but we have to get to the truth. It's like what David Wood was saying. Let's get to the truth of the matter is okay. As far as Christians being fellow believers as a person who claims to be a Muslim.

Even James White will agree with me. No, they're not and not according to the Quran in according to the Quran. There's no salvation for them. Okay, they are not fellow believers. But anyways, um, you know, I've been I think very courteous with James over here.

I gave him an additional 13 minutes because I know this is gonna be tough for him as well as for the Baha 'is and other People who claim to have followed Prophet now. He's saying that we can't prove Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

The problem is you've never been to my website. We have several debates proving Prophet Muhammad and as for his challenge Sam Shimon ran away as well. Okay, so and if one of my time's on.

Question on New Testament Textual Variants and Manuscript Evidence

All right. I hear that you've all been everyone who wanted to ask the question has been given a number. So we'll start with number one. Absolutely. No more speeches unless unless one of you is my professor.

Okay. Good evening. My question is since the topic is how can we trust in the New Testament? My question is how can we trust the New Testament if for example in many modern many modern Bibles the bystander version?

Etc. For example, they tell us that Verses for example, like in Mark chapter 16, there are verses that were added in later. Where did they come from if the if the earliest manuscript they tell us did not contain those verses.

Is that not proof of tampering John chapter 7 verse 53 to John 8 11? They say earliest manuscripts did not have it. Obviously, where did those if they didn't if the earliest manuscript did not contain that then where did those come from?

Isn't that proof? Therefore that people have been tampering with the scriptures over time and who knows what? New evidence may come out later to show that other things have been tempered. Therefore how there how can we trust in the test?

All right, that that's a great question. So two minutes for James I. I had hoped that this would be what we were debating this evening because I would love to give a 20-minute presentation. I'd love to give much more than a 20-minute presentation.

If I may recommend a book that I've written that has nothing to do with this one. So it might be useful to you at least and you might be able to say well. It's certainly not directed my direction. I wrote a book in 1994 called the King James only controversy and it deals with where we got the New Testament Manuscripts and what the differences in them are.

I'm holding a critical edition of the Bible here Greek New Testament Hebrew Old Testament. Bottom of the page you have all the references to the various manuscripts and where they have varied readings.

You mentioned the two largest very readings in the New Testament Mark 16 9 to 20 and John 7 53 3 8 11. When we examine that wealth of information that we have we are able to detect scribal errors. I was going to show you for example a a manuscript actually Codex Sinaiticus, which you may have heard of before around 325 AD.

Where in John 14 you can see para clay tops in in John chapter 14 verse 26. And there's a textual variant right. Right underneath you can see the handwritten correction made in it now. That was the only manuscript we had of that text then that would be a problem.

But it isn't. We have manuscripts from all over the world and Christians distributed their manuscripts rapidly everywhere. And when we can compare them with one another we can see where someone has made a scribal error here or there.

Situation with the longer ending of Mark. The earliest manuscripts do not contain that and people later scribes felt. We need to add something here because the other Gospels have something.