Randy Meyers: The Misguided Calvinist & Beer Review of the Best Christmas Beers you should buy

Opening Banter and Show Introduction

Exploring theology, doctrine, and all of the fascinating subjects in between, broadcasting from an undisclosed location, Dead Men Walking starts now. Well, hello everyone! Welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking podcast.

Thanks for coming along on the ride. We appreciate you guys. I've been looking at a lot of comments online right now on our Facebook, Twitter. Yes, we're back on Twitter. Well, not back. We just got on Twitter about six months ago.

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So look on our Facebook and Twitter and Instagram for that where we're gonna be running a contest for our special Christmas episode that goes live on the 22nd. But enough of the self, what is it, selfless and shameless self-promotion.

I have a good friend here in studio. I attend church with him. He's a brother in the Lord and we're gonna be talking about some fun stuff. But we'll do something a little different here too. Well first, Randy Myers, how are you sir?

Just great. Official introduction, Randy Myers. Yeah, and this is just gonna be a conversation between friends, but we're gonna do it with a twist. We're gonna do a beer review as well while we go through this.

First ever on Dead Men Walking Podcast. Now, I've had some people on and we did a little private beer review after the camera stopped rolling, believe me. But yeah, I know you're a home brewer and you like your craft beers and I said, I think it'd be interesting to expose the listeners to some of the stuff that maybe we sip on around the holidays for the glory of God and make it a holiday themed.

And I think when we get into these, a lot of these are might be kind of Midwest beers, I think, if people are listening. At least one of them that I brought is available to everybody. Okay. Yeah, I know I have two Michigans and an Ohio in there and, you know, we joke, we say, coming to you from an undisclosed location.

We've been doing this two and a half years, everyone knows where the heck.

I'm at. You know, it's no secret. I got two Ohio's and one Chicago, but that Chicago beer is all over.

Is it? Okay, very cool. So, tell us a little bit about yourself. First of all, give us a couple minute intro. Let people know what you're about. All right, so I'm a high school math teacher by trade. Okay, so my worst enemy when I was 17.

So.

I never thought I'd be a teacher. I thought I was going to be a lawyer. Yeah. It's funny, I researched some of these old theologians and they thought they were going to be a lawyer and they ended up being a pastor.

I ended up being a high school math teacher. Okay, I consider being a pastor. That was after I graduated from college in 1980. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I consider Peace Corps, ministry, maybe go back and get a advanced degree in communication.

I was my degree is in interpersonal communication. Okay. But I started out college as a math major, thinking that I was allowed to study math and go to law school. So, but I seemed like I really didn't want to be a lawyer.

And, and then when I got out of college, or at least my four year degree, I had to get was advised to get a master's in business. So I went to BG to get an MBA. And then I became a college dropout. I was DJing at night and nightclubs and, and trying to figure it all out.

Yeah. So I just I dropped out of school. I ended up, I think I'm back right back to school. I decided to be a high school teacher. I thought I'd be a high school speech teacher. Okay. And then ended up, nobody told me that it's really good if you're comprehensive English.

So it's hard to get a job. It's just a speech teacher. Right. And nobody told me that. And I already had all these math classes. So I was certified. So I thought, well, I like math. And I just want to be a teacher.

I like to teach. Yeah. So and I and which fits, you know, I'm I, I like to teach from the Word of God. Yeah. And it's been, I think I could, a good teacher can teach anything, right? If they learn a little bit about the subject.

Sure. And I think I'm a capable teacher. Yeah. And so I've been blessed to be around other good teachers who have mentored me. Bob Forney comes to mind and today was his funeral. Yeah. Just was tough for me.

He was probably my most important mentor. So I love Bob. And it's people like Bob and others that really challenged me to be a thorough scholar. Yeah. And so and then somewhere, mid 80s, you know, somebody asked me about the sovereignty of God.

And it really changed my life. It's like all of a sudden, I thought, wow, Romans nine just said, that's why I love that. Romans nine really changed my life. Yeah, it really did. But and I've had experience, not just teaching, but I was, you know, older, and we were thought a pastor and I was preaching three out of four Sundays, and I've done a lot of preaching, okay, pulpit supply.

I did some teaching at pastors conferences in Peru. So I've been to Peru a few, three times, on missions trips. And I was chairman of some Bible conferences in the 90s, where we had James Boyce and Michael Horton and Ravi Zacharias, who knew?

And then, you know, Bruce Metzger, Alistair Begg. Yeah, you know, some, some good folk. Good guys. Yeah. Yeah. So I've been, I've been studying and, and thinking and for so how long since the Lord saved you?

Happened in the 70s. I was, you know, what you might what we would have called a Jesus freak. Yeah, somebody that I was getting out of my car at the UT college campus back when they didn't have the mall and there was a parking lot in front of the student union, I was getting ready to go to the library, it was dark out and some dude in an army jacket and long hair and lots of zits and wire rimmed glasses and but the weird thing about him wasn't any of that.

It was that he had this button that said get smart, get saved. Yeah. And then on his belt, he had this leather pouch that had his very small RSV, you know, his sword, as he said, and we went through the Gospel of John, or third chapter, Gospel of John, because I made the mistake of saying, well, where in the Bible does it say you got to be saved?

Right. And so yeah, he told me I was raised Roman Catholic. Okay. I was a pretty moral guy. And I thought, you know, people are allowed to go to heaven, then why not me? I thought I was better than most people from a moralistic standpoint.

Sure. So.

Comparatively speaking, yeah, I was like most people do that. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, and that's, yeah, that's why it's probably what prevents a lot of people from coming to Jesus is they don't, they think that they're a pretty decent person. Like, yeah, if there's a heaven, why not me?

And I got you said Jesus freak, I got really into on sermon index back in the like, early 2000s, they were putting out Leonard Ravenhill and Keith green video series of in the mid 70s of them just having all these kids in their house, and they just someone had a recorder going.

And it really reminded me when you say Jesus freak, because that's how Keith I don't know if you're familiar with Keith greener. Sure. Yeah, how he came to the Lord where he said he was just looking for a guru.

He was like, he went to the Hindus. And they said, Jesus is good teacher. And he went to Muslims, they say he's a prophet and a good teacher. And he went over to Buddha, they say he could, you know, he had some enlightenment.

He goes, and I read the Bible, Jesus goes, Oh, no, I'm the only way and he goes, Well, I'll just make this guy my head guru then because he seems you know, and talks about how he was basically would sit around they got, you know, they're smoking pot and reading the Bible and obviously grew out of that and knew and realized that was that wasn't the right way.

But just really, when you said Jesus freak, it was a really weird kind of culture to. Sure, sure. I wasn't there to experience it. But yeah, someone like you went through it.

We didn't have the pot. But I mean, these people were, you know, they had a commune. And it was some people saw it as a cult. And I guess, you know, it did kind of maybe it was cultish in a sense, you know, the leader who ended up, you know, hooking up with a teenager and all that.

But yeah, I have a pastor, I once told me that God rules with a crooked stick. And so I, he uses the foolishness, foolishness of men's preaching, right? Yeah. To reach the saints. Wow. So who knew? I mean, I was studying the guy that doing this with what he called the colored Bible, you know, it was like, which is, there's Bibles out there now that have color coding, you know, different themes, right?

Right. And so but they were big on the Gospel of john. And why not? The guy gave me a little pocket version of the Gospel of john. And I went to the library and read the entire Gospel of john that night.

Yeah, I was excited. That's awesome. So I really I really turned a lot of people off.

Well, I mean, the truth does, right? I mean, Christ did come to divide in a sense. Yes, yes, he did. Right. Unite and divide at the same time. Before we get into the kind of what we want to talk about tonight, let's get into our first beer and see what we think of it.

Do you want to start with one of yours? Because now here's, here's the way it works, guys. Randy bought brought three, I brought three, we might not even if we get through them all, it's going to be because we're just testing them.

That's right. Because some of these are high. Yeah, it's a high ABV. In fact, I.

Brought all barrel age stuff. So. Oh, geez, I'm kind of a, is that where your palate is? You like the big, I go for flavor, you know, I only have one. And so it's sort of, and even this, the bourbon county that I bought, I, I almost have to share it because I'm not gonna sit down to drink one of those.

Right. So I thought maybe there's three people today. But well, you know, the thing is, we can this stuff, the barrel age ones, you can cap it and drink the rest tomorrow, a little.

Flat on a on a imperial stouts. Not a bad thing. Not a bad thing. Right. So which one should we.

Start with? Local? So you want to go local? Yeah. This is Ernest Brew Works, as I know, the brewers, they're, they're friends. They're good guys, Scott and Keefe. And they have a location.

In. Oh, you don't say where you're from? No, you can't. Okay, it's kind of a running joke. Okay,.

I see. I see. Well, we're not we're actually it's a different state. Yeah, local for me is Ohio. Yeah, for you is a different state. But they've got a couple locations. And this is a holiday brew that they call Spicewood.

Okay. And this one's barrel aged. So it's a little higher ABV. I think it's 10 .8%. Okay. And I've not ever had their barrel aged version, though. So what do you usually which one? Well, I'm kind of really into Russian Imperial stouts.

And I don't even Christmas beers aren't really necessarily something I gravitate toward. Yeah. So I'm kind of but I have I've been like, drinking, avoiding them for a few years. So it's been going to be fun tonight to so I'm kind.

Of traditional. I'm kind of the same way. I really only get into stouts. Barrel aged stuff scotches, like around fall and winter. I just can't do it when it's you know, 89 degrees out. And yeah, I.

Mean, it's certainly not a lawnmower beer. Yeah, yeah. So I, I drink, you know, IPAs are kind of what I started with. I've been into craft beer a long time. So yeah, I was, I had a buddy that was another Christian guy who turned me on to Belgians and some German beers.

And so back when Sierra Nevada was brand new, and that's got to be 3540 years ago. Yeah, they were kind of the only kid on the block, right? One of the first right? Yeah. So let's crack it open. Yeah, let's do it.

Let's see what it's about to it. I'm interested. I'd pour yours first. I think I'm gonna pour mine and then pass you the can. There you go. Yeah. So we have these fancy. So what's your take on on? It's.

Been going around the internet, where people are saying, you know how you'll see someone pour to the side and, and kind of give it a just a little bit ahead. And a lot of bartenders are saying, well, you're, you're basically keeping that co2.

And then when you drink it, that's what bloats you. Pour it with a full full head on it and let it settle. What? Where are you on this? This internet controversy,.

At least with the dark beers are usually a little less carbonated. So I'm definitely in favor of that. I do like it just like with wine, you know how you, you know, take a wine, you swirl it around, get a little air a little bit.

So the problem is you don't want to do that with a highly carved IPA. It's just going to be take forever to settle down. Yeah. But when it comes to big beers, dark beers, I, I have no problem with pouring them right straight in the glass.

I wasn't sure how this was going to be carved. Yeah, it's a small glass. So I was being a little careful. But I got.

To tell you, you're. Yeah, you're you're way fancier than I am here. It seems like the barrel age.

Spicewood. But let's try it. I'm a beer snob. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie. I'm probably. Oh, I like it. I'm as snobbish about my beer as I'm about my theology. All right, let's see. Oh, that is good.

It's very, it's very spicy. It's called Spicewood for a reason. But yes, cinnamon, nutmeg, you know, can I don't want to sound like a, you know, a little tobacco and some leather and you know, I don't mean.

Oh, no, I'm all about that. But I mean, it's, it is it's it there's a lot in.

Here. What. Why am I tasting something like a little bit of cider or something like a like a sweetness on the end almost like an applesauce or something? Is there something in there that.

Would? Is it my just nuts? No, I mean, there's some it's. Yeah, it's, it's, yeah, that's good. That's a tasty beer. It's I mean, if, if you want a something for that stuff for this style, it's solid, right.

But yeah, remember, with your ABV, that extra grain, that extra sugar, okay, it gives you flavor, right? It gives the yeast is, you know, working hard on that, on that sugar. And with ABV is flavor. That's why low alcohol beers don't taste good.

Because they, they don't have that, that depth of flavor. Yeah, that's one of the reasons why gravitate toward these, these big stouts. I just like the depth of flavor. Now, don't get me wrong, I, I love IPAs.

And I think the whole England thing has just been glorious. Love. Yeah, a lot of good, a lot of good new. There's so much I mean, I used to drive, I can remember driving to Indiana just to get just to buy zombie dust.

And now it's like, it's like, who cares? You know, and not. No, don't get me wrong. It's still an amazing beer. But yeah, there's so much out there. There's so much good beer out there. Even locally, you know, guys are making but hazy IPAs take a little more work.

Yeah. A lot of people don't, the brewers won't have the setup to, to drop to hop during the cooling process. And there these some of these New England folk are just, they just do such a great job who farted down and around near Columbus.

Okay, they're phenomenal. As far as they got it down old nation in Michigan. Yeah, the m 43. Yep. Boss tweed full earth. Yeah, great stuff. That m 43 for a while.

Up here was like trying to get your hands on a gold brick. And you had to pre order and then you.

Only get so many per store. I mean, it. But it's good. It's the best best hazy in Michigan, without.

Question old nations. They make a limited one with a little pineapple in it too. Yeah, they do. They.

Make a just robbery m 43, which is nice, which I'm not a fruity beer guy, just a hint. But if you.

Just give me just an underlying hint where I just get it in the aftertaste, and it's not overpowering me and hit me in the face when you know, pretty good. So how often do you homebrew? Are you pretty regularly?

Or no, not right now.

Not right now. I used to do it regularly. Ever since COVID a buddy of mine same way. He said, I, he said, I think we found out with COVID that, that we brew to share. Yeah, I don't brew beer to just drink it myself.

Right? I brew it to share and I'm proud of my creation. And I like sharing it. And then when COVID hit, I thought I'd brew more. And I didn't. It was like I was like, I wasn't motivated because I didn't have.

I wasn't I knew I wasn't going to be sharing it with people. And I kind of got into a rut where I haven't been brewing.

Oh, I get to see that. So the opposite. Most people go, Oh, you got all this time start brewing. You're like, well, I don't have anyone to share it with.

Right, right. So now I'm, I'm I keep saying, Okay, I bought the ingredients and I never think it's time to start it back up. Is it is I wanted to get. I wanted to get a stout done before the holidays, but didn't happen.

But you like this beer, then I do like it. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's.

Solid. Well, it's I like anything that's kind of complex. And once again, not trying to sound like a snob to anyone listening. But that's literally what that is, where you can kind of get two or three different directions on it when you drink it.

Right. I said, it's just something that's, you know, I mean, that's why we're drinking it, too, is I wanted to, I wanted to do something to my taste buds.

Sure, you know, this, this beer is kind of like a, almost like wassail meets, meets barley wine, you know, almost like a, it's definitely has that Christmasy, you know, a lot of those cinnamon, nutmeg.

Yeah. Yep. Not so much the molasses, which we're gonna, when we get to this other one here, but okay, but that's not really a Christmas beer, but it comes out on Black Friday, only one day release. I mean, there's still some of it around used to be that it was snapped up really fast.

And now there's just so much competition. Yeah. And, and Goose Islands is putting out so much of it. Yeah, you can still go into a store and find it, which is nice. Yeah. Well, we're to a point.

Now to where you walk to a local beer store like that, that, you know, that specializes, we have one here in Lambertville, and it's, geez, liquor cabinet. Yeah. Jason Jindo, who's a friend of mine who makes it a point to stock stuff that you just don't normally see, you become overwhelmed.

Absolutely. You go, but it's nice to have those options. You know, sometimes I'll just go in there and all right, I'll just get, you know, three that I've never even heard of don't know what they are and kind of rate them myself and have them here in the in the garage fridge to when someone comes over like you that go, let's try this one.

But so when I when I talked to you a week or two ago about coming on, you said, Oh, I think I got kind of what I what we want to talk about. And I think you said you text me the misguided Calvinist. Is that what you that's right.

So what do you what do you mean by that? Because we kind of covered a little bit, you know, your your salvation.

Story a little bit there. So so in the 80s, late 80s, early 90s. There's a lot I was in influenced by people like, you know, Mike Horton, Reformation Magazine, Whitehorse Inn, Alliance Confessing of Angelicals, you know, because Jim Boyce and, and, and they're great guys.

I mean, there's this distinction about law and gospel. Right. And it seemed like, and I thought, Luther, it seems like Luther was trying to swing the pendulum, you know, this works righteousness thing, and he was swinging the pendulum away from works righteousness to a faith based righteousness.

And, you know, he's famous for calling James an epistle of straw. And it wasn't until recently when I researched that, that wasn't that he was saying that it was straw like weak, but that it was just, it was not as meaty and as vital as say, Romans and Galatians.

Yeah. But I took that as to mean that, you know, there, maybe it was, he could have, James could have done a better job. Yeah, flimsy or Yeah, right. And so this distinction, and then also, there's a lordship salvation debate, sure, where, you know, MacArthur writes a book, and then St. Hodges writes his book.

And, right. And, and I was, back then, I was kind of just eating it all up. Sure. And thinking, well, geez, both these guys, I mean, certainly St. Hodges, I think was really wrong. Okay. Yeah, he wrote the book absolutely free.

And he, he seemed like he was headed down a path of easy believism. Yeah. But MacArthur, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't sure about some, maybe it was just me being picky, you know, or wanting to be clever, you know, but the idea of making Jesus your Lord just seemed a bit, you know, I wasn't comfortable with the language.

Yeah. He just is Lord, right? Right. So but, but I think I, I fell into a trap where it was just faith alone, faith alone, faith alone, faith alone. Yeah. And I, I guess I didn't, I went a.

While just... Which, real quick, theologically, for salvation, we both believe. Justification.

Through faith alone. Absolutely. And I just, it's not like I turned into an antinomian. Right. That wasn't the case. But what, what I think, though, is that I, I, when I went to Peru, for example, I, probably one of my favorite messages that I preached was called, What is the Gospel?

Yeah. And, you know, Paul tells Timothy, here's a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners. And, you know, in Lima, I had to, I had to translate, I don't speak Spanish.

So I'd have to say a phrase. And I'd say, the gospel can be summed up in three words, which was ended up being a little funny, because the translator, my interpreter looked at me and said, in Spanish, it's five words, but it was Jesus saved sinners.

Yeah. And so I, but, and what, what happened is, I think I didn't, I grew in my knowledge, but I didn't grow in obedience. Yeah. I wasn't pursuing personal holiness. I understood that personal holiness was important.

You know, there's that, I heard Dr. Packer teach at a Ligonier conference many years ago. And he, he quoted Robert Murray McShane, a great quote. He said, my people's greatest need is my own personal holiness.

And I, I believe that, but I, I do think for a while there, I was just for even a decade, I was guilty of just, of maybe coasting or, or being satisfied with my theological knowledge through my, my, my position was secure.

I believed if you confess with your mouth that Jesus Lord and believe in your heart, they got raised from the dead, you will be saved. You know, Romans 10, nine and 10. And so I, I, I, I think I missed the idea that, that the gospel is a message of repentance.

Yeah. I, it's not that I didn't believe it, but certain things happened to me, certain texts, certain that just started opening my eyes and really the last five, six, seven years. Yeah. It's just really been after all these years of studying reformed theology and writing.

And I wrote a couple of the small group books and.

All the teaching that I've done. Did you have anything to do with the Hebrews book that worked?

No, no. That was my, my, my year off. So, although I don't know if I'm going to do next year, I'll probably finish Genesis. But should we, you know, I didn't finish, should we try another one?

I don't know how long should we try another one? Yeah, we could try another one. Which to your point too, I think you could absolutely fall into that, especially in the reform camp to where you kind of become very, your hope and trust is put in not only your knowledge, but the books and the theology and the church history.

And that can make, and believe me, that can make you feel close to God and to know him. Sure. But like you're saying, and I think we're going to get to it in a second. There's a little more than that.

That's right. Right. Yeah. I thought I'd.

Talk about some of the things that sort of challenged me personally. So kind of where.

The rubber hit the road, you know, kind of thing. All right. So the second one here, let's see, which one are we going to go for? This one here is, let's just do this one. So, man, you brought some ones that were very specific and, and kind of, I don't know, I just feel like they're higher class than mine, but I wanted to go a little more.

I just want to go a little more broad for people.

I didn't expect you to, I wanted to be different. I didn't want to.

That's what, when I said, bring a few beers, I go, I'm going to love whatever he brings. Cause it's going to be nothing that I have in my shelf and it's going to be fun. So this is a Great Lakes Brewing Company in Michigan, probably one of the more popular ones.

No, no, that's in Ohio. Or Ohio. I'm sorry. Yeah. Ohio. I've been there. You've been there. Probably one of the more popular ones in Ohio would say too, because you can.

It is, believe it or not, I went to a tour there.

Okay. I feel like you can get this nationally.

Yes. Well, I don't know if nationally, but I can tell you that it's, it's their number one seller. Okay. So they're, they made the, I think Dortmunder Gold, which is a, a lager. Okay. Was the one that kind of got them going.

And then Edmund Fitzgerald is their IPA. I'm sorry, is their porter. And then their IPA is, oh gosh, why is it escaping me? But anyway, they. The Fitzgerald is. Commodore Perry is their IPA. So I think the Edmund Fitzgerald is.

I think it's a great beer. I think it's their best beer as a home brewer. I consider that to be the standard for a porter. Yeah. If you, it's not, it's like, if you want to, it's just like Bell's Two-Hearted is a great standard for an IPA.

So what I would do is use that as a benchmark and then you can go this way, that way in terms of how you, what flavor profile, but, but I would say that Edmund Fitzgerald is a, is solid. And this is their best seller, at least according to a person that works there.

So this one's seven and a half, a little bit of spice and honey, still pretty big, but not crazy like a stout or, you know. That's not wimpy, seven and a half is solid. Let's pour it up and just see. And I would say if anyone's listening, this is one, if you're outside of, because we have a lot of listeners, you know, in the United States and, you know, Canada and Mexico and around the world.

So this is one that you could probably get a little more, if you wanted to, if you wanted to, you could probably get in a few more states in the United States.

It's a beautiful color. Yeah. Very, I don't know if people can see this, but it's a very, it's amber, nice head, just really lovely, lovely looking beer. Yeah. Let's take a sip and see. It's excellent.

Yeah. I get some ginger on there too. Yeah, you know what, I think. I, I, I, I agree. I mean, yeah.

Now see, that seems pretty darn smooth for seven and a half. Maybe it's because we just came off this one, which had a little heavier of a taste to it.

The other one was more spice and a little richer in flavor. This one is, this one was, boy, so nice and clear. This is what brewers for, for a style like this, that's what they go for. Is that what you're going for?

Is the clarity on that too? Yeah, on this, on a beer like this. Yeah. This is a nice, this is a nice looking beer. And like I said, it's, it's their top seller for a reason. I didn't know that. Yeah. Okay.

I like it. I like it. Yeah. This one feels like a, you know, kind of an in-between if, because I have friends that I mean, they're Pilsner only, IPA only, they'll stay away from lagers and stouts. Sometimes you get some of those beers where they kind of, you know, it's, they kind of get you into that world.

Sure. You know. Like a gateway beer. A gateway beer. That's the word I was looking for. I couldn't think of it. But I kind of liked those when, when they kind of go, well, let's do something in the middle to where maybe you're, you know, I mean, one of my wife's favorites was a Founders.

How was it? Was it the Porter? Was it the, I think it's called Dirty Bastard. Yeah. It, so that's a. That one, cause she is like, hit me, punch me in the throat with all the flavors you can. I'll drink half of it and I'm good.

Very malty.

It's an English ale. So very, very malty, not just sugary sweet, but more of a molasses kind of, yeah, more definitely darker in color. It has more roasted grains.

Yeah. It's and to everyone out there where I just said my wife's favorite beer, and then, you know, named this heavy beer.

She drinks two of those in a year. Okay. That's, but it's funny that, that I heard on a podcast that the, the, it's funny to say founders, the founders of Founders, right. They that beer is really what kind of.

Righted their ship and got there because they were pretty much not, not making it. And they said, you know what, we're going to brew what we, what we like, and we're going to name it, what we want to name it.

We're going to like defy convention. And they did that with the odd name and the. Sure. Nobody was really making a beer like that. I don't think so. I mean, it was probably. They were around. They were probably around, but certainly not, not widely available.

I feel like they even probably made it a little more popular because they had some cliche or not cliche, some, some status. When that came out, they'd been around a little bit. Yes. And they were known outside of Michigan, but you're absolutely right.

The first time I had that, it was years ago. You go, what is this? This is very different. And now of course you see, you know, you can go to any beer store and see 50 of those. Sure. You know, they have variations.

They have variations on them. And I love every one of them are there. I had someone complained to me. Oh, there's too many of this. I go, why everyone here's the thing.

I was talking to the variations more than, more than the original. Well, that's their twist.

I talked to John short from shorts brewery. He came down here and he did a tap takeover. One of the local places. Yep. Yep. Yep. I met him. Yeah. Good guy. Yeah. He goes, I don't even really drink that much.

I love making it. I love putting my twist on it. Seeing what I'll taste it, obviously, but he says, I'm not a big, you know, I don't just go out and drink beer. I'll drink my new one that I made. See what it is.

Uh, we got a local guy at original gravity, Brad Sanchez, same way. He loves brewing and there's like an art to it. Right.

Is what it is. And same way with Scott, Scott, Scott's not, I mean, he wants to be profitable because he wants to make a living, but he just says, I like brewing beer.

Yeah. And it sounds like that's how kind of you are too. You're just into that art of it.

It's, it's like, I like creating. So, I mean, I, I mean, whether it would be woodworking or, uh, writing or it's all a hobby. You know, I used to collect baseball cards and stamps and coins, you know, as little.

And so it was core to like, uh, I just like, I'm a hobby kind of guy. And so my hobbies have been, um, theology and beer and music, you know, but that could be another, another podcast altogether. Right.

I think I'm in trouble because my 11 year old daughter came up to me a couple of weeks ago and she goes, dad, do you know that they make a record players now that have also have speakers built in with Bluetooth?