Randy Meyers: The Misguided Calvinist & Beer Review of the Best Christmas Beers you should buy


This week Greg sat down with Randy Meyers. Randy is a teacher, author, professor, and home brewer. So Greg took full advantage and had a discussion while reviewing their favorite Christmas craft beers. They discussed how Calvinists (and all believers) can become misguided in their theology, assuming grace may abound, and ignoring the seriousness of their sin and the lack of their works, all while tasting and reviewing six of their favorite Christmas craft beers. It was a great show. Enjoy! Dead Men Walking Website: https://www.dmwpodcast.com


Exploring Theology, Doctrine, and all of the Fascinating Subjects in Between, Broadcasting from an
Undisclosed Location, Dead Men Walking, Starts Now! Well, hello everyone!
Welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast. Thanks for coming along on the ride. We appreciate you guys.
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But enough of the self, what is it, selfless and shameless self -promotion. I have a good friend here in studio.
I attend church with him. He's a brother in the Lord and we're gonna be talking about some fun stuff.
But we'll do something a little different here too. Well first, Randy Myers, how are you sir? Just great. Official introduction,
Randy Myers. Yeah, and this is just gonna be a conversation between friends, but we're gonna do it with a twist.
We're gonna do a beer review as well while we go through this. First ever on Dead Men Walking Podcast.
Now, I've had some people on and we did a little private beer review after the camera stopped rolling, believe me.
But I know you're a home brewer and you like your craft beers and I said,
I think it'd be interesting to expose the listeners to some of the stuff that maybe we sip on around the holidays for the glory of God and make it a holiday themed.
And I think when we get into these, a lot of these are might be kind of Midwest beers, I think, if people are listening.
At least one of them that I brought is available to everybody. Okay. Yeah, I know
I have I have two Michigans and an Ohio in there and you know, we joke, we say, coming to you from an undisclosed location.
We've been doing this two and a half years. Everyone knows where the heck I'm at. You know, it's no secret.
I got two Ohio's and one Chicago, but that Chicago beer is all over. Is it? Okay, very cool.
So tell us a little bit about yourself. First of all, give us a couple minute intro. Let people know what you're about.
Alright, so I'm a high school math teacher by trade. Okay. So my worst enemy when
I was 17. So I never thought I'd be a teacher. I thought I was going to be a lawyer. Yeah. It's funny.
I researched some of these old theologians and they thought they were going to be a lawyer and they ended up being a pastor.
I ended up being a high school math teacher. Okay, I consider being a pastor. That was after I graduated from college in 1980.
I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I consider Peace Corps, ministry, maybe go back and get a advanced degree in communication.
I was my degree is an interpersonal communication. Okay. But I started out college as a math major, thinking that I was allowed to study math and go to law school.
So, but I seemed like I really didn't want to be a lawyer. And, and then when
I got out of college, or at least my four year degree, I had to get was advised to get a master's in business.
So I went to BG to get an MBA. And then I became a college dropout. I was DJing at night and nightclubs and, and trying to figure it all out.
Yeah. So I just I dropped out of school I ended up I think I'm back right back to school. I decided to be a high school teacher.
I thought it'd be a high school speech teacher. Okay, and then ended up nobody told me that it's really good if you're comprehensive
English. So it's hard to get a job. It's just a speech teacher. Right. And nobody told me that.
And I already had all these math classes. So I was certified. So I thought, well, I like math.
And I just want to be a teacher. I like to teach. Yeah. So and I and which fits, you know,
I'm I like to teach from the Word of God. Yeah. And it's been,
I think I could, a good teacher can teach anything, right? If they learn a little bit about the subject. Sure.
And I think I'm a capable teacher. Yeah. And so I've been blessed to be around other good teachers who have mentored me.
Bob Forney comes to mind and today was his funeral. Yeah. Just was tough for me. He was probably my most important mentor.
So I loved Bob. And people like Bob and others that really challenged me to be a thorough scholar.
Yeah. And so and then somewhere, mid 80s, you know, somebody asked me about the sovereignty of God.
And it really changed my life. It's like, all of a sudden, I thought, wow,
Romans nine, just that's why I love that wine. Romans nine really changed my life.
Yeah, it really did. But and I've had experience, not just teaching, but I was, you know, older and we were without a pastor and I was preaching three out of four
Sundays and I've done a lot of preaching. Okay, pulpit supply. I did some teaching at pastors conferences in Peru.
So I've been to Peru a few, three times on missions trips. And I was chairman of some
Bible conferences in the 90s where we had James Boyce and Michael Horton and Ravi Zacharias, who knew?
And then, you know, Bruce Metzger, Alistair Begg.
Yeah, you know, some, some good folk. Good guys. Yeah. Yeah. So I've been,
I've been studying and, and thinking and for so how long since the
Lord saved you? Happened in the 70s. So I was, you know, what you might what we would have called a
Jesus freak. Yeah, somebody that I was getting out of my car at the UT college campus back when they didn't have the mall and there was a parking lot in front of the student union,
I was getting ready to go to the library, it was dark out and some dude in an army jacket and long hair and lots of zits and wire rim glasses.
But the weird thing about him wasn't any of that. It was that he had this button that said get smart, get saved.
Yeah. And then on his belt, he had this leather pouch that had his very small
RSV, you know, his sword, as he said. And we went through the
Gospel of John, or third chapter Gospel of John, because I made the mistake of saying,
Well, where in the Bible does it say you got to be saved? Right? And so told you, yeah, he told me
I was raised Roman Catholic. Okay. I was a pretty moral guy. And I thought, you know, people are allowed to go to heaven, then why not me?
I thought I was better than most people from a moralistic standpoint. Sure. So comparatively speaking, yeah,
I was like most people do that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and that's, yeah, that's why it's probably what prevents a lot of people from coming to Jesus is they don't, they think that they're a pretty decent person.
Like, yeah, if there's a heaven, why not me? And I got you said Jesus freak,
I got really into on sermon index back in the like, early 2000s, they were putting out
Leonard Ravenhill and Keith green video series of in the mid 70s of them just having all these kids in their house, and they just someone had a recorder going.
And it really reminded me when you say Jesus freak, because that's how Keith, I don't know if you're familiar with Keith greener.
Sure. Yeah, how he came to the Lord where he said he was just looking for a guru. He was like, he went to the Hindus. And they said,
Jesus is a good teacher. And he went to Muslims, they say he's a prophet and a good teacher. And he went over to Buddha, they say he could, you know, he had some enlightenment.
He goes, and I read the Bible, Jesus goes, Oh, no, I'm the only way. And he goes, Well, I'll just make this guy my head guru, then because he seems, you know, and talks about how he was basically would sit around, they got, you know, they're smoking pot and reading the
Bible, and obviously, grew out of that and knew and realized that was that wasn't the right way.
But just really, when you said Jesus freak, it was a really weird kind of culture to Sure, sure.
I wasn't there to experience it. But yeah, someone like you went through it. We didn't have the pot.
But I mean, these people were, you know, they had a commune. And it was, some people saw it as a cult.
And I guess, you know, it did kind of maybe it was cultish, in a sense, you know, the leader who ended up, you know, hooking up with a teenager and all that.
But yeah, I have a pastor, I once told me that God rules with a crooked stick.
And so I, he uses the foolishness of men's preaching, right?
Yeah, to reach the saints. Wow. So who knew? I mean, I was studying the guy that doing this with what he called the colored
Bible, you know, it was like, which is, there's Bibles out there now that have color coding, you know, different themes, right?
Right. And so, but they were big on the Gospel of John. And why not? The guy gave me a little pocket version of Gospel of John.
And I went to the library and read the entire Gospel of John that night. Yeah, I was excited. That's awesome.
So I really, I really turned a lot of people off. Well, I mean, the truth does, right?
I mean, Christ did come to divide in a sense. Yes, yes, he did. Right. Unite and divide at the same time.
Before we get into the kind of what we want to talk about tonight, let's get into our first beer and see what we think of it.
Do you want to start with one of yours? Because now here's, here's the way it works, guys. Randy bought, brought three,
I brought three, we might not even, if we get through them all, it's going to be because we're just testing them. That's right. Because some of these are high.
Yeah, some of them are high ABV. In fact, I brought all barrel aged stuff. So I'm kind of a...
Is that where your palate is? You like the barrel aged stuff? I like the big, I go for flavor, you know, I only have one.
And so it's sort of, and even this, the bourbon county that I bought,
I almost have to share it because I'm not going to sit down and drink one of those. Right. So I thought maybe there's three people today.
But well, you know, the thing is we can, this stuff, the barrel aged ones, you can cap it and drink the rest tomorrow, a little flat on a imperial stouts, not a bad thing.
Not a bad thing, right. So which one should we start with? I was thinking local. You want to go local? Yeah. This is
Ernest Brew Works, because I know the brewers. They're friends. They're good guys, Scott and Keefe. And they have a location in, oh, you don't say where you're from?
No, you can't. It's kind of a running joke. Okay, I see. I see. Well, we're not, we're actually, it's a different state.
Yeah. Local for me is Ohio. Yeah, for you is a different state. But they've got a couple locations. And this is a holiday brew that they call
Spicewood. Okay. And this one's barrel aged. So it's a little higher
ABV, I think it's 10 .8%. Okay. And I have not ever had their barrel aged version though.
So what do you usually drink? Which one? Well, I'm kind of really into Russian imperial stouts. And I don't even,
Christmas beers aren't really necessarily something I gravitate toward. Yeah. So I'm kind of, but I have,
I've been like, drinking, avoiding them for a few years. So it's been going to be fun tonight to step into some more traditional.
I'm kind of the same way. I really only get into stouts, barrel aged stuff, scotches, like around fall and winter.
I just can't do it when it's, you know, 89 degrees out. Yeah, I mean, it's certainly not a lawnmower beer is what we call it.
Yeah, yeah. So I drink, you know, IPAs are kind of what I started with. I've been into craft beer a long time.
So I was, I had a buddy that was another Christian guy who turned me on to Belgians and some
German beers. And so back when Sierra Nevada was brand new, and that's got to be 35, 40 years ago.
Yeah, they were kind of the only kid on the block. Right. One of the first, right? Yeah. So let's crack it open.
Yeah, let's do it. Let's see what it's about. I'm interested. I'd pour yours first.
I think I'm going to pour mine and then pass you the can. There you go. Yeah. So we have these fancy.
So what's your take on, it's been going around the internet where people are saying, you know how you'll see someone pour to the side and kind of give it just a little bit ahead.
And a lot of bartenders are saying, well, you're basically keeping that CO2. And then when you drink it, that's what bloats you.
Pour it with a full head on it and let it settle. Where are you on this internet controversy?
At least with the dark beers are usually a little less carbonated. So I'm definitely in favor of that.
I do like it's just like with wine. You know how you take a wine, you swirl it around, get a little aerated a little bit.
So the problem is you don't want to do that with a highly carved IPA. It's just going to be take forever to settle down.
Yeah. But when it comes to big beers, dark beers, I have no problem with pouring them right straight in the glass.
I wasn't sure how this was going to be carved. Yeah, it's a small glass. So I was being a little careful.
But I got to tell you, you're Yeah, you're you're way fancier than I am here. It seems like the barrel aged spice wood.
But let's try it. I'm a beer snob. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie. I'm probably Oh, I like it. I'm as snobbish about my beers.
I'm about my theology. All right, let's see. Oh, that is good.
It's very, it's very spicy. It's called spice wood for a reason. But yes, cinnamon nutmeg, you know, can
I don't want to sound like a, you know, a little tobacco and some leather and you know,
I don't mean Oh, no, I'm all about that. But I mean, it's, it is it's it there's a lot in here. What Why am I tasting something like a little bit of cider or something like a like a sweetness on the end, almost like an applesauce or something?
Is there something in there that would? Or is it my just nuts? No, I mean, there's some it's
Hmm. Yeah, it's, it's, man, that's good. That's a tasty beer. It's I mean, if, if you want a something for that stuff for this style, it's it's solid, right?
But yeah, remember, with your ABV, that extra grain, that extra sugar, okay, it gives you flavor, right?
It gives the yeast is, you know, working hard on that on that sugar. And with ABV is flavor.
That's why low alcohol beers don't taste good. Because they, they don't have that, that depth of flavor.
Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I gravitate toward these, these big stouts. I just like the depth of flavor.
Now, don't get me wrong. I, I love IPAs. And I think the whole England thing has just been glorious.
Love. Yeah, a lot of good, a lot of good New England so much. I mean, I used to drive. I can't remember driving to Indiana just to get just to buy zombie dust.
Now it's like, it's like, who cares? You know, and not no, don't get me wrong. It's still an amazing beer.
But yeah, there's so much out there. There's so much good beer out there. Even locally, you know, guys are making but hazy
IPAs take a little more work. Yeah. A lot of people don't, the brewers won't have the setup to, to drop to hop during the cooling process.
And they're these, some of these New England folk are just, they just do such a great job.
Hoof hearted down and around near Columbus. Okay, they're phenomenal. As far as they got it down.
Old Nation in Michigan. Yeah, the M 43. Yep. Boss Tweed, Full Earth. Yeah, great stuff.
That M 43 for a while up here was like trying to get your hands on a gold brick. And you had to pre order and then you're only getting so many per store.
But it's good. It's the best, best hazy in Michigan, without question. Old Nations. They make a limited one with a little pineapple in it, too.
Yeah, they do. They make a strawberry M 43, which is nice. Which I'm not a fruity beer guy, just a hint.
But if you just give me just an underlying hint where I just get it in the aftertaste, and it's not overpowering me and hit me in the face when you know, pretty good.
So how often do you homebrew? Are you pretty regularly? Or no, not right now?
Not right now. I used to do it regularly ever since COVID. A buddy of mine, same way.
He said, I, he said, I think we found out with COVID that that we brew to share. Yeah, I don't brew beer to just drink it myself.
Right? I brew it to share. And I'm proud of my creation. And I like sharing it. And then when COVID hit,
I thought I'd brew more. And I didn't. It was like I was like, I wasn't motivated because I didn't have
I wasn't I knew I wasn't going to be sharing it with people. And I kind of got into a rut where I haven't been brewing.
Oh, I get that. So the opposite. Most people go, Oh, you got all this time start brewing. You're like, Well, I don't have anyone to share it with.
Right, right. So now I'm, I'm I keep saying, Okay, I bought the ingredients and then never.
I think it's time to start it back up is it is I wanted to get I wanted to get a stout done before the holidays, but didn't happen.
But you like this beer, then? I do like it. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's solid. Well, it's
I like anything that's kind of complex. And once again, not trying to sound like a snob to anyone listening, but that's literally what that is, where you can kind of get two or three different directions on it when you drink it.
Right. I said, it's just something that's, you know, I mean, that's why we're drinking it, too, is I wanted to, I wanted to do something to my taste buds.
Sure. You know, this, this beer is kind of like, almost like wassail meets, meets barley wine, you know, almost like a, it's definitely has that Christmasy, you know, a lot of those cinnamon, nutmeg.
Yeah. Yep. Not so much the molasses, which we're gonna, when we get to this other one here, but okay, but that's not really a
Christmas beer, but it comes out on Black Friday, only one day release. I mean, there's still some of it around used to be that it was snapped up really fast.
And now there's just so much competition. Yeah. And goose islands is putting out so much of it.
Yeah, you can still go into a store and find it, which is nice. Yeah. Well, we're to a point now to where you walk to a local beer store like that, that, you know, that specializes, we have one here in Lambertville.
And it's, geez, liquor cabinet. Yeah, Jason Jindo, who's a friend of mine who makes it a point to stock stuff that you just don't normally see, you become overwhelmed.
Absolutely. You go, but it's nice to have those options. You know, sometimes I'll just go in there and all right,
I'll just get, you know, three that I've never even heard of don't know what they are, and kind of rate them myself and have them here in the in the garage fridge to when someone comes over like you that go, let's try this one.
But so when I when I talked to you a week or two ago about coming on, you said, Oh, I think
I got kind of what I what we want to talk about. And I think you said you text me the misguided Calvinist.
Is that what you that's right. So what do you what do you mean by that? Because we kind of covered a little bit, you know, your your salvation story a little bit there.
So so in the 80s, late 80s, early 90s. There's a lot
I was in influenced by people like, you know, Mike Horton, Reformation magazine,
Whitehorse in Yeah. Alliance confessing of evangelicals, you know, because Jim Boyce and, and, and they're great guys.
I mean, there's this distinction about law and gospel.
Right. And it seemed like, and I thought Luther, it seems like Luther was trying to swing the pendulum, you know, this works righteousness thing, and he was swinging the pendulum away from works righteousness to a faith based righteousness.
And, you know, he's famous for calling James an epistle of straw. Yeah. And it wasn't until recently, when
I researched that, that wasn't that he was saying that it was straw like weak, but that it was just, it was not as meaty and as sure vital as say,
Romans and Galatians. Yeah. But I took that as to mean that, you know, there maybe it was, he could have,
James could have done a better job. Yeah, flimsy or yeah. Right. And so this distinction, and then also, there's a lordship salvation debate.
Sure. Where, you know, MacArthur writes a book, and then Zane Hodges writes his book.
And, and, and I was, back then, I was kind of just eating it all up.
Sure. And thinking, well, geez, both these guys. I mean, certainly Zane Hodges, I think was really wrong. Okay.
Yeah, he wrote the book absolutely free, and he, he seemed like he was headed down a path of easy believism.
Yeah. But MacArthur, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't sure about some, maybe it was just me being picky, you know, or wanting to be clever, you know, but the idea of making
Jesus your Lord just seemed a bit, you know, I wasn't comfortable with the language. Yeah.
He just is Lord, right? Right. So, but, but I think I, I fell into a trap where it was just faith alone, faith alone, faith alone, faith alone.
Yeah. And I, I guess
I didn't, I went a while just, which real quick theologically, for salvation, we both believe justification through faith alone.
Absolutely. And I just, it's not like I turned into an antinomian. Right. That wasn't the case. But what, what
I think though, is that I, I, when I went to Peru, for example, I, probably one of my favorite messages that I preached was called
What is the Gospel? Yeah. And Paul tells Timothy, here's a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance.
Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners. And, you know, in Lima, I had to,
I had to translate, I don't speak Spanish, so I'd have to say a phrase. And I'd say, the gospel can be summed up in three words, which was, ended up being a little funny because the translator, my interpreter looked at me and said, in Spanish, it's five words, but it was
Jesus saved sinners. And so I, but, and what, what happened is
I think I didn't, I grew in my knowledge, but I didn't grow in obedience.
I wasn't pursuing personal holiness. I understood that personal holiness was important.
You know, there's that, I heard Dr. Packer teach at a conference many years ago, and he, he quoted
Robert Murray McShane, a great quote. He said, my people's greatest need is my own personal holiness.
And I, I believe that, but I, I do think for a while there,
I was just for even a decade, I was guilty of just, of maybe coasting or, or being satisfied with my theological knowledge through my, my, my position was secure.
I believe if you confess with your mouth that Jesus Lord and believe in your heart, they got raised from the dead, you will be saved.
You know, Romans 10, nine and 10. And so I, I, I, I think
I missed the idea that, that the gospel is a message of repentance.
I, it's not that I didn't believe it, but certain things happened to me, certain texts, certain that just started opening my eyes and really the last five, six, seven years has just really been after all these years of studying reformed theology and writing.
And, you know, I wrote a couple of the small group books and all the teaching that I've done. Did you have anything to do with the
Hebrews book that worked? No, no. That was my, my, my year off. So, but although I don't know if I'm going to do next year,
I'm probably finished Genesis. But should we, I, you know, I didn't finish, should we try another one?
I don't know how long, should we try another one? Yeah, we could try another one, which to your point too,
I think you could absolutely fall into that, especially in the reform camp to where you kind of become very, your hope and trust is put in not only your knowledge, but the books and the theology and the church history.
And that can make, and believe me, that can make you feel close to God and to know him. Sure, sure. But like you're saying, and I think we're going to get to it in a second.
There's a little more than that. That's right. Yeah, I thought I'd talk about some of the things that sort of challenged me personally.
So kind of where the rubber hit the road, you know, kind of thing. All right. So the second one here, let's see, which one are we going to go for?
This one here is, let's just do this one. So, man, you brought some ones that were very specific and, and kind of,
I don't know, I just feel like they're higher class than mine. But I wanted to go a little more.
I just want to go a little more broad for people. I didn't expect you to, I wanted to be different. I didn't want to.
That's what, when I said bring a few beers, I go, I'm going to love whatever he brings, cause it's going to be nothing that I have in my shelf and it's going to be fun.
So this is a Great Lakes Brewing Company in Michigan, probably one of the more popular ones.
No, no, that's in Ohio. Or Ohio. I'm sorry. Yeah. Ohio. I've been there. I've been there. You've been there.
Probably one of the more popular ones in Ohio would say too, because you can. It is, it is, believe it or not,
I went to a tour there. Okay. I feel like you can get this nationally. Yes. Well, I don't know if nationally, but I can tell you that it's, it's their number one seller.
Okay. So they're, they made, they, I think Dortmunder Gold, which is a, a lager.
Okay. Was the one that kind of got them going. And then Edmund Fitzgerald is their IPA. I'm sorry, is their porter.
And then their IPA is, oh gosh, why is it escaping me?
But anyway, the Fitzgerald is pretty good IPA. So I think the Edmund Fitzgerald is a great beer.
I think it's their best beer as a home brewer. I consider that to be the standard for a porter.
If you, it's not, it's like, if you want to, it's just like two bells two -hearted is a great standard for an
IPA. So what I would do is use that as a benchmark and then you can go this way, that way in terms of how you, what flavor profile, but, but I would say that Edmund Fitzgerald is a solid, and this is their best seller, at least according to a person that works there.
So this one's seven and a half, a little bit of spice and honey, still pretty big, but not crazy like a stout or, you know.
That's not wimpy, seven and a half. But let's, let's pour it up and just see. And I would say if anyone's listening, this is one, if you're outside, cause we have a lot of listeners, you know, in the
United States and, you know, Canada and Mexico and around the world. So this is one that you could probably get a little more, if you wanted to, if you want to, you could probably get in a few more states in the
United States. It's a beautiful color. Yeah. Very, I don't know if people can see this, but it's a very, it's amber, nice head, just really lovely, lovely looking beer.
Yeah. Let's take a sip and see. Mmm. It's excellent.
Yeah. I get some ginger on there too. Yeah. Some like, You know what, I think I, I, I, I, I agree.
I mean, yeah. Now see, that seems pretty darn smooth for seven and a half.
It is. Maybe it's because we just came off this one, which had a little heavier of a, Right, right. The other one, the other one was more spice and a little richer in flavor.
This one is, this one was, boy, so nice and clear.
This is what brewers for, for a style like this, that's what they go for. Is that what you're going for? Is the clarity on that too?
Yeah. On this, on a beer like this. Yeah. This is a nice, this is a nice looking beer. And like I said, it's, it's their top seller for a reason.
I didn't know that. Yeah. Okay. I like it.
I like it. Yeah. This one feels like a, you know, kind of an in -between if, because I have friends that will,
I mean, they're Pilsner only, IPA only. They'll stay away from lagers and stouts.
Sometimes you get some of those beers where they kind of, you know, it's, they kind of get you into that world.
Sure. You know, like a gateway beer. Gateway beer. That's the word I was looking for. I couldn't think of it. But I kind of liked those when, when they kind of go, well, let's do something in the
One of my wife's favorites was a Founders. How was it? Was it the Porter?
Was it the, I think it's called Dirty Bastard. So that's a. Cause she is like, hit me, punch me in the throat with all the flavors you can.
I'll drink half of it and I'm good. Very malty. It's an English ale. So very, very malty.
Not just sugary sweet, but more of a molasses kind of.
Uh, yeah, more definitely darker in color. It has more roasted grains.
Yeah. It's, um, and to everyone out there where I just said my wife's favorite beer and then, you know, named this heavy beer.
She drinks two of those in a year. Okay. That's, but it's funny that, that I heard on a podcast, uh, that the, the found, it's funny to say founders, the founders of founders, they, um, that beer is really what kind of.
Kind of right at their ship and got there because they were pretty much not, not making it.
And they said, you know what, we're going to brew what we, what we like, and we're going to name it what we want to name it.
We're going to like by convention. And they did that with the odd name and the, and nobody was really making a beer like that.
I don't think so. I mean, it was probably, they were around, they were probably around, but certainly not, not widely available.
I feel like they even probably made it a little more popular because they had some cliche or not cliche, some, some status when that came out, they'd been around a little bit and they were known outside of Michigan.
But you're absolutely right. The first time I had that, and it was years ago. You go, what is this? This is very different.
And now of course you see, you know, you can go to any beer store and see 50 of those. Sure. And they have variations.
They have variations on them. And I love every one of them are there. I had someone complained to me. Oh, there's too many of this.
I go, why everyone? Here's the thing. So I was talking to the variations more than, more than the original.
Well, that's their twist. I talked to John Short from Short's Brewery. He came down here and he did a tap takeover.
One of the local places. Yep. Yep. Yep. I met him. Yeah. Good guy. Yeah. He goes, I don't even really drink that much.
I love making it. I love putting my twist on it. Seeing what I'll taste it, obviously, but he says,
I'm not a big, you know, I don't just go out and drink beer. I'll drink my new one that I made. See what it is. See how, you know, we got a local guy at Original Gravity, Brad Sanchez, same way.
He loves brewing and there's like an art to it. Right. Is what it is. And same way with Scott. Scott, Scott's not,
I mean, he wants to be profitable because he wants to make a living, but he just says, I like brewing beer.
Yeah. And it sounds like that's how kind of you are too. You're just into that art of it. It's, it's like, I like creating.
So, I mean, I, I mean, whether it be woodworking or, uh, writing or, it's all a hobby.
You know, I used to collect baseball cards and stamps and coins, you know, as little. And so it was kind of like, uh,
I just like, I'm a hobby kind of guy. And so my hobbies have been, um, theology and beer and music, you know, but that could be another, another podcast altogether.
Right. I, I think I'm in trouble because my 11 year old daughter came up to me a couple of weeks ago and she goes, dad, do you know that they make a record players now that have also have speakers built in with Bluetooth?
So I can play my Apple music and I can play my queen vinyl on.
And I, I go, yes. She goes, that's all I want for Christmas. I'm going to start collecting vinyl.
And I was, couldn't have been more scared and more proud at the same time. Right. Right. Cause we, we pride ourselves and look at, uh,
I grew up very, very legalistic to where I couldn't even listen to anything with drums. I played a Keith green song for piano recital and the youth pastor sat me down and said, and the main pastor said,
Hey, that's, that's, that's devil music. You know, that's progressive Christian contemporary music, which is a very odd signal to tell a 12 year old when you're going, well, you put this love in my heart.
Like, you know, the Easter song, like, you know, my wife had a similar experience with fundamentalist relatives from Indiana.
And she played, uh, uh, twilight Paris at a, at a, and her mom ran over there and ripped that cassette right out of that boom box.
Yeah, it was crazy. So I've taken a different approach and we say, look, we sit down with our kids and they'll listen to Bohemian Rhapsody and we'll say, okay, let's talk about what was he struggling with?
What's he going through? Uh, this is a depraved person who doesn't have the Lord who's, you know, created art.
We know that art is, uh, was given to us by God to glorify him. You know, we own the arts.
As I've said, very many times on this podcast, I get really upset when Christians kind of ignore the arts.
Uh, no, I think general Simpson said, does the, does the cord and the fifth and the minor belong to Satan? Because if it does, we'll go down to hell, we'll plunder it and we'll bring it back back.
And for the glory of God, I write music. I brew beer. I create, uh, sculptures. Um, I do podcasts all for the glory of God, right?
Art belongs to us as Christians to glorify God, not the other way around. The secular world doesn't get to have their entertainment and no, we're taking it back for Christ and we're glorifying them with it.
And you can glorify him with it. Like you said, woodworking or brewing a beer. That's right. Um, sorry, I got off on a tangent there, but let's get, let's get back with, to what you were saying.
So faith alone, we agree on that justification through faith alone, but then maybe sometimes we slip into something as reformed folk and we go, even using terms like our expressions like, you know, law and gospel, right.
Or law and grace. Like there's some division here. Uh, and that, that I'm, I don't deny that there's, you know, clearly law and the
Bible and there's clearly gospel, right. But to separate them.
And then we, I think I maybe fell into a trap where I, I thought that when
Lutherans were talking about law and gospel, that law was, you know, old covenant or commands or, but it seems that when you read the scriptures that, um, promises are always connected with commands.
Yeah, absolutely. And Jesus said, you know, uh, repent and believe, right.
So there's a, there's, it wasn't, I mean, I was thinking about it today about, can you imagine
Jesus says, now here's these tracts I want you guys to pass out. I want you to see if you can get them to say the sinner's prayer.
So, and then they're in, right. You know, like, right. So, so, um, I have a personal thing about the sinner's prayer.
I think it's, I think, I think it's done more harm than, than good probably in Western American churches, but, but you, you get, you see what
I'm talking about, right. And so, um, I preached, uh, one of my favorite texts to preach from, uh,
I've preached this in churches, you know, in Peru and here in the States, uh, in John five, it's a wonderful story about the man, the, the, the invalid at the pool at Bethesda.
Yeah. What a, and what I loved about that story, you know, John's very picky about what miracles he puts in his gospel,
Matthew, Mark, and Luke have lots of them. John only has seven. Yeah. And he picks this one and Jesus goes up to the guy and he says, he's been an invalid for like,
I don't know, 37 years or something. And he says, do you want to be healed? That's a strange question to ask a cripple who's trying to get his foot in, but everybody keeps beating them in.
Right. Yeah. And, and so I, I thought that was a key verse in the passage.
And I still think it, it may be the key, the key verse. Do you want to be healed?
Unpack that a little bit. What do you, what do you think that means? Why would Christ ask, you know, to the bystander?
They're going, of course he wants to be healed. He's trying to get in. And the thing is, when he, when, when he responded to Jesus, he didn't say, yes, yes, heal me.
Yeah. He didn't know who Jesus was. Right. And all he did was complain. Yeah.
He said, Oh, well, the water is stirred up. There's nobody here to put me in. And I can't, I can't get up because they believe there's a superstition or this thing that when the waters, an angel was stirring up the waters and the first person to touch it when they got stirred up, got healed.
And so he was, uh, uh, I think that a lot of us are, are content to be in our, our dreadful condition.
We don't even know. It's like what you're talking about before, where we think we're pretty good guys. Right. Right. You know, you, what good is the gospel if you don't think you need to be saved?
Yeah. If you don't, if you think that you're, if you think that you're a pretty good guy and you're, that you, all you got to do is pull up your bootstraps and, and, uh, you know, shine it up a little bit.
And, and so I, I, um, I think that it was a fair question.
Do you really want to be healed? Yeah. And whether or not who he knew Jesus was or not, it is telling that he went right to an excuse instead of a, yes,
I do want to be healed. Right. He didn't really answer the question directly. Right. It's not like he didn't say, well, why do you got some insight?
Are you going to, are you going to help me out? What's going on? And like none of that. You're right. And so I focused my sermon on that.
And I still think it's a really good, I, it's not like I should dismiss that, but what I did dismiss is, so after he heals him and the religious leaders say, why are you carrying your mat on, on the
Sabbath? And they say, well, the dude that healed me said to, well, who is this guy?
I don't know. And he, so he didn't even know. And so I loved it that it's a picture of God's sovereignty and our healing.
Right? Right. The guy didn't know who Jesus was. He didn't ask to be healed. Jesus found him and healed him.
Yeah. That's exciting. Right. Right. Jesus did it all. Yeah. Like he, he came to the guy, he found him.
And he, and even when he presented, he said, do you want to be healed? He didn't say, yes, heal me. Yeah. Like this, that's us, right?
That's a, the picture of salvation. Isn't like Jesus throws out a life ring and you, you grab on.
If, if we, Jesus throw out a life ring, I would swim the other way. Right. Right.
In fact, I can't even swim. Yeah. As the analogy goes, you're probably the dead guy at the bottom of the ocean. That's right.
He, he just sees me down there and reaches out and picks me up. Right. So, so I focused on that in my preaching, that, that passage.
And I think it's, it's still all great themes and it's not like I preached anything wrong. Right. But then he, then, then after the religious leaders questioned him, then the dude runs into Jesus.
Okay. And what Jesus tells him, he says, stop sinning.
Stop sinning or something worse might happen to you. That was what he told him. Stop sinning. It's like, and I, I didn't even like, when
I preached that passage, I just kind of like, that was like a little. Footnote. Yeah.
I talked about it. Move on. Yeah. Move on. What? Move on. And it just, um, and then
I'm, I'm, um, teaching Romans. Which I've done before.
And for some reason, and, and, and I pastor, uh, blessed his heart. Cause he, he said, you know, Randy, I, I, I want it to be you.
I don't want to hear what boys things or what, you know, Packer things or whatever.
I, I, I want to, I want it to be you. We're also good at that too, in the reformed community where we can parrot our guys pretty well, right.
Instead of. Absolutely. Right. I mean, and, and, and, you know, I run to Calvin all the time and really, uh, he's his comment.
I mean, he's known for his institutes, but his commentaries are there.
They're the best. Yeah. I mean, he is, he is lucid. He is pastoral. I mean, occasionally he rides his hobby horse against, you know, the
Pope and such, but, um. Which I don't mind, but. Yeah, but, but he's, he's, he's remarkable.
His commentaries are remarkable. Uh, I could go on and on about those and what people have said about him, you know, um, uh,
Arminius, uh, anyway, so off track there back to, uh,
Romans. Sure. So. So you're coming out of that, uh, that healing from Jesus and you get into Romans and what do you see?
It wasn't like, right. All these things happen. Bang, bang, bang, but just over time building. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're building and I'm, and I've always in Romans, uh,
I get really excited about those odd numbered chapters. Yeah. One, three, five, seven and nine.
You know, I mean, one kind of introduces it three, you know, we're talking about our sin and then five, man, five, just like he died for us while we were his enemies.
And that just blows me away. Right. Yeah. Blows me away. Yeah. And, and he also says he died for us at the, at the right time.
Yeah. That's just exciting. And so I get really charged up about Romans five and then
Romans seven, it's like, I feel like some relief, you know, cause like, you know, like, Oh, Paul's going through this too.
And he's a sinner. Right. Yeah. I got someone here. Romans seven is really cool. And then now Romans eight. I mean, some people have called
Romans eight, the greatest chapter in the Bible and don't get me wrong. It's awesome. It's awesome. But Romans nine is what is, is why, you know,
I'm a Calvinist, right. Um, and not just Romans nine, but it's what it just like John three was the impetus for me to consider
Jesus. Romans nine was the impetus for me to consider that God's sovereign and to move up, move away from that.
The Arminian leanings of, of the predominant evangelicalism that I was exposed to.
Isn't that funny how, if you don't, some people just stop at certain, certain verses or certain chapters to where it's like John three 16, that's all
I need. Right. When you explore and eat the Bible, right. Yeah. Just go one more verse. All we want you to do is go, uh, but, but I've noticed that there's a fullness in the
Bible to where you have to eat and consume all of it. All 66 books. We cannot put a, uh, uh, you know, a microscope on one chapter, one book, one verse.
I mean, right. Correct. Hermeneutics as well too. But, but I've seen a lot of Christians who they stop at three 16 and you go, oh, just please get to Romans nine or get to John six or, you know, and you can see the fullness of what that three 16 is.
Right, right, right, right. So I'm teaching Romans and I'm, I'm thinking, you know, one, three, five, seven, nine.
Those are kind of like my favorites and, and, uh, and Romans eight is great. Right. But then
I get to Romans six. Yeah. And I'm all excited after five because, you know, like, wow, just the right time.
He died for me when he didn't, I didn't even like him and he died for me. Yeah. And in Romans six,
Paul says, are, are we to continue in sin? So that grace may abound.
Like, why do we still live in it? Yeah. And like, just hit me. Yeah. Cause I like, am
I really changing? Shouldn't I be, shouldn't I be, I mean, Martin Luther, to his credit,
I mean, he started off the 95 thesis when he said that, that the, the Jesus says repent.
He meant that the whole life that the, the whole life of a Christian, I'm butchering the quote, but that, that our life should be a redundant here.
A life of repentance. Yeah. The entire life. Yeah. The entire life. Right. Right. Um, so I, it just Romans six, one and two just hit me.
It was like in a way that it never had. I kind of almost skipped over Romans six. Yeah.
Because I was so focused on my favorite chapters and it was
Romans six that just like, wow. I am, I would,
God challenged me to, to, to, to change. Sure. Pursue holiness, to, to be better, to stop sinning.
Yeah. Like what, stop sinning. It was the same message that Jesus said. Paul was saying, stop sinning.
Why do you continue to live in it? Cause like, did I really change? Yeah. I changed my attitudes a little bit and I was a pretty good guy and I, I was, but I, I think
I was becoming moralistic in a way that I was like railing against before.
Right. Yeah. No, absolutely. I mean, I, I struggle with six as well too, because it's the one that I'm convicted by the most.
Most people go, man, you read nine and you feel like, well, why does God even, why, why, how can
God find fault in us? Guess what? The answer is you don't get to ask God why I'm fine with that. That makes sense.
I get it. I don't get it. But you read six and you go, well, why do you keep sinning? But so grace may abound. Cause I've been,
I've done that in my own personal life before. Grace abounds. Maybe I, maybe
I coddle this sin a little bit longer. Sure. I take advantage of God's grace. Right. And, and so I totally get it to where that one, that one,
I think is the challenging one. Our Armenian friends might say nine's challenging chapter nine. I can,
I get that. I read that the first time and I went, cause, cause my, you know, my testimony is too. I tell everyone I was a closet
Calvinist for nine years. I didn't, you know, I was taught, Hey, those guys are weirdos. And we don't really, you know, don't go down that road.
And I just started reading the Bible with the Lord said the sinner's prayer at seven, but got saved at 23. Uh, when
I started reading the Bible, I went, well, this isn't anything of the tradition that I was taught growing up in both a very fundamentalist kind of Baptist, non -denominational, but it was fundamental
Baptist. Then swinging to a Bethel like Pentecostal church. I mean, I had both extremes growing up, up until the time
I was 16, about half of my time in each one. And I went, this is neither of these traditions. And then you stumble upon the doctrines of grace and you go,
Oh my goodness. Where has this been my whole life? This is the Bible, right? Uh, so, so when
I read chapter nine, it was, yeah, it made apps. I mean, by the grace of God, it made sense to my mind and my heart.
And he obviously replaced my heart with stone to flesh. And, but when you read, so why do you keep on sitting?
If grace may abound, that one is tough, right? Right. That's why I also love James though. Yeah. Yeah.
And James, I mean, I'd, I'd always, but again, like I used to discount James, you know,
I used to say, well, yeah, I mean, I wrote Ephesians two, eight and nine, God's prepared these works for me in advance.
And, and I just wasn't, wasn't convicted. And, but I've been seeing that it's going back to what is the gospel?
As I had a, I had a discussion with somebody about it. What is the gospel? And I kept saying
Jesus saved sinners. Yeah. And I don't, I'm not going to back down from that.
You know, it's not like I was wrong, but it's, I think I was incomplete.
That's my confession as a misguided Calvinist is that I was forgetting about repentance.
Yeah. That it's, it's now I still were saved by grace alone through faith alone, through Christ alone.
I'm not, you know, I believe that with my whole heart. But we should, as John the
Baptist said, we should bear fruit in keeping with repentance. Yeah. And what did Jesus say about the tree that doesn't bear fruit?
He said, it's not a very happy ending. No, not at all. Yeah. Right. And so I, I'm being challenged.
God's challenging me to, to bear fruit, to, to, to live a life of repentance, to, to like, you know,
McShane said, you know, that personal holiness matters. Yeah. And said, instead of just paying lip service,
I'd, I'd say the cool quote. Sure. Then didn't do anything about it. Yeah. And so I'm, I've been really convicted the last, you know, like I said, half a dozen years.
And it's, I've been thanking God more, praying more, meditating more, you know, now
I, I, I read and I write. And so, yeah,
I am. No, that's so good. I mean, it's, it's something, well, let's go to another one here and we'll talk about.
Let's, so we have a, well, this is another Ohio one.
Okay. And pardon the ears if I, I scraped up, this has got the fancy label.
Look at this. You got the gold tinfoil on the top. I've been to thirsty dog and I've had their 12 dogs at Christmas, but I've never had their barrel aged 12 dogs at Christmas.
So is that what this is? That's what this is. This is fancy. I've never had it. So we're going to. It's almost a shame that we're not going to be able to get to, oh, here you go.
Get to all those, you know? Yeah, probably not. Because you're going to have to.
I might have to save them for another time. Cap them back up and bring them home. I hate, I don't want to waste them, but. But this is,
I expect it to be good. So what's the, what's the story on this? It's, it's a barrel aged.
Yeah, it's a barrel aged Christmas with honey and spices. And it's probably, I don't,
I don't remember the percentage on it, but it's, if you're going to barrel age a beer, it better at least be 10%.
So. And where are these, where are these guys out of here? Thirsty Dog. Akron, I think. Oh, I just got back from Akron last week.
I think so. If it's the place. Brewed and bottled by Thirsty Dog, Akron, Ohio. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I went there once.
Let's see what we got. My daughter Rebecca did a co -op there. Put it up here.
So 12 Dogs of Christmas. Oh, I like it.
I like it. In fact, I mean, no, no offense to my friend Scott, but I, I like it a little bit better than the
Spicewood. It's not as spicy as, Spicewood's definitely lives up to its name.
It's a little, Spicewood's a little more spicy. This one is still has plenty of spice, but.
All right. So see, you, you kind of like that, that less spice and that more kind of oaky barrel age taste on it.
Yeah. I kind of like the first one better. Yeah. This isn't bad. Don't get me wrong.
The first one is more, it's a little more complicated. But I do. More complex, yeah. But I, I love,
I love anything with a little bit of spice in it though. I mean, I'm a, it took me four years of drinking bourbon and then rye bourbon to then finally realize, oh,
I just like scotch. Well, that's a learned. You know, I was like, oh, I just like the oakiness, the peatiness, the,
I liked that. It was real sharp. Next thing you know, you'll be drinking Irish whiskey. Oh, I'm half half
Irish and half Polish. Okay. So I've had my fair share of Irish whiskey, which the running joke that I say is, you know,
I like to drink, but I can't find the bar. Half Irish. But yeah, so I, I totally understand what you're saying.
And I, I think even within like, once again,
I want to preface this with saying, especially within the kind of reformed Calvinistic community, I can see sometimes our trust being in knowledge.
And now I don't say that because I'm saying don't learn. Don't study.
Don't read. I'm not saying that we're doing a podcast. Yeah, I'm saying we can, we can have that.
Uh, sometimes it takes the place of works. Sometimes it takes the place of, um, actually fulfilling the great commandment.
We go, well, I know that I understand it. I've even been in the position to where I went, well, if I can teach someone that or, or explain it to them and they get this realization, well, that's kind of like that.
That's my works. And he goes, no, I told you to love your enemy. I've told you to, you know what I mean? I've told you to, uh, you know, love one another as you would love yourself.
Like there's something to where sometimes I think, just like you said, you can get in, you need to be convicted by the
Holy spirit. We do to where, when we have a head knowledge of something, um, there's, there's no evidence through works, not that we're justified by works, right?
We know what we're justified by. But as James said, you know, uh, it's a, well, it's a, it's a dead faith if there's no works attached versus an alive face.
He may, he makes it very clear. You show me a faith without works and I'll show you a dead faith.
I'll show you an alive faith with faith, with works. So, you know, like Luther famously said, you know, gospel of straw.
Uh, I also say when I read Romans nine, uh, seven, eight, and nine,
I think it pairs quite nicely with, with James, uh, because to me, then there's that balance there.
Yes, absolutely. God saves and God elects and God pressure, you know, preserves and God does all those things.
But also there's this crazy cool thing to where works are attached to a regenerated heart.
Right? Right now, all kinds of books have been written on how those two work together, right?
It's, it's, um, what I, what I kept going back to is Jesus's words.
And so, um, what I figured out, I mean, well, I figured out what actually people figured out before me, but what, what spoke to me is that Jesus saves us from our sins, but not just future.
He saves us from our sins now. Okay. And I think I, I think I was more focused on what
Christ accomplished for me for the not yet, not so much for the already as theologians like to say the already and the not yet.
Right. So the already is, is that he saved me from my sins today. Yeah. That, that sin does not need to be my master.
I have the Holy Spirit in me. Yeah. And, and I, I'm like, Jesus, I still,
I'm, I'm, I talked about it at Sunday school last week. I, when Jesus told the disciples, his disciples, his 12, that, that I need to go, because I, if I don't go,
I'm not going to, I can't send you the helper, but I need to leave. I would have been like Peter.
I would say, are you kidding me? You, you, you heal people.
You strengthen our faith. You walk on water. You, uh, you confound the fear.
Yeah, cast out demons. Yeah. I mean, you're doing all this stuff and you're teaching us, you're the man.
Yeah. You're the son of God, the Christ. And you think it's better to leave? Are you kidding me?
You could get off that train right now. You ain't leaving, bro. Right. Right. Yeah.
I mean, how can that, I've always like, what did he, I mean, oh, it'd be better if I leave.
No, it wouldn't. Right. But it was better because Jesus didn't lie to him.
Right. He said, you know, and look at what happened to their faith. Like when he was there, when he, when he died, look, look at, they all hid.
Yeah. Right. And denied. And denied. Yeah. Denied. It wasn't until he rose from the dead that they realized that.
Wow. Right. But, but, uh, yeah, I, I'm, uh, I'm struck by that.
Uh, I have the Holy Spirit. Yeah. He said it was better if he left.
And so I have the Holy Spirit. Um, I, I, I've been challenged to, to, to evaluate my life, to, uh, pursue change and to be ever changing, right.
To be, because I'm not, I'm never, and, and at the older I get, you know, and I'm, I'm a lot older than you,
I think I, the older I get, the more I realize how terrible a sinner
I am. Yeah. I, I was trying to, I paused because I was trying to think of the right way to phrase it.
It's not that I'm more terrible than I was before. It's what I, what I've noticed now is
I notice my sinfulness that I noticed the quantity and quality of my sin more than before, before I think
I used to ignore it, pass over it, not recognize it. The older I get, the more
I realize I am sinning all the time. My thoughts, my, what I look at, how
I process things, my impatience, my judging. I mean, I can't, I don't think I can go 60 seconds without sinning.
If you're being absolutely honest, most people can, but what, I mean, but most people aren't that self -aware of it or, or they're, or they're lying to themselves.
Well, I've become, apparently in my old age, I've become self -aware of my sin.
And I realized I, I mean, I can sing, you know, and when, you know, amazing grace, when you think about who saved a, a wretch like me,
I mean, I identify with that now. Yeah. I think maybe before I never thought of myself as really a wretch, just maybe a guy who needed
Jesus, who wanted to be saved. I mean, I grew up, I grew up Roman Catholic and my prayer, and it wasn't a bad prayer.
You grew up Roman Catholic and you didn't think you were a wretch? Yeah. You're one of the few that got out without that Catholic guilt.
Well, I just played with it. Oh, no, you're totally, you're totally fine. I'm just, my problem is
I'm thinking about what I'm going to say next. And so I'm not, I'm not processing well. So I'm being again, it's a sin in me.
Right. Right. I'm not a really good listener. No, I'm not. I have to work on that myself too.
Instead of listening and I'm still busy thinking about what I'm going to say next. Yeah.
You know, I do that all the time. So, and then I, and then I forget, you know, so I'm, I'm, yeah,
I was. So you grew up Roman Catholic. What were you going to say about that because you were shifting?
I was saying, I was going to say, you got me back on there. So I prayed as a child.
I was an altar boy. I went to parochial school. Okay. I, until high school, high school,
I went to a public school, but I used to pray regularly.
God helped me do the right thing. I just want to do the right thing. Yeah. And I was even kind of known among my friends as being an idealist.
Probably why I thought about, well, maybe I'll go to the Peace Corps. Maybe I'll be a pastor.
Maybe I'll, I just, I'll be a teacher. I just wanted to do the right thing. I want to help people. And I've always wanted to do the right thing.
And the beauty of that is God used that prayer. When I got saved, when, when that, that Jesus freak, that hippie, you know, said,
Hey, look at, look at the third chapter of John. You must be born again. And I prayed in the front seat of my car.
I said, God, if this is this, if you're real, if this is real, this is what you want me to do.
I want to do the right thing. Yeah. You know, I, I, I want to be born again.
Can you do what you got to do to me? And I said, and I even asked, I, I don't know if it's selfish, but I said, show me.
Yeah. Can you please show me that this is real? And I really think that he, over time, he never spoke to me audibly.
Sure. But it seemed that there were little moments, little things that happened to me where it was like, wow.
Yeah. Like God did that. Oh, sure. I've had moments like that for sure. You know, and, and so he, he answered my prayer.
I felt like, and so he, he prepared me, right. He chose me for the foundation of the earth.
So it's not surprising that I said a prayer that was, you know, at least somewhat worthwhile.
Yeah. Even in my ignorance, I said, God, help me do the right thing. Yeah. My father, my father went famously growing up would tell me that he would always, he, his, his, his, you know, he would always say, just ask
God. He's like in his personal life. I asked God to just reveal the truth to me and allow me to do the right thing.
Give me as much money as you want, as little money as you want, as much influence as little where I live, what
I drive doesn't matter. Just reveal your truth to me. And he said, the Lord has never let me down to not reveal the truth because he's not a liar.
And that always stuck with me. And it's kind of what you're saying too. Lord, just, and I think he's, he's willing and able and wants to reveal his truth to us.
Unfortunately, I think a lot of people either read the Bible or maybe not read the Bible and only go to church or attended church.
And they're not really too interested in the actual truth. They might be more interested in their version of who
God is, or their traditions of their, their gathering or, you know, or a million different things.
Because I'll tell you what, you ask God to reveal truth to you, and it's usually going to cut the flesh. That's right. I've noticed.
It usually starts with me, the horrible person I am. Right. And I don't think people really want that.
I mean, I don't, I think that. The majority of people. I think a lot of people want to feel good about themselves.
And our culture is, is telling us, you know, like you matter. Right? Right. And so that's sort of an inside joke if you live around here.
So yeah, you matter. That's what we go to church to be comfortable.
Right? I remember, I remember somebody saying that he was going to a new church.
He was living out of different town. He says, I've never been more comfortable at a church before. I'm like, that's a red flag.
In my mind. I mean, I didn't like call him out on it at the time, but that's a red flag. Right. I think the exact same way.
Look at, I want to be, I want my flesh to be hurt when I leave church. I want to confess.
I want the word to cut my flesh and, and, and want to walk out of there going, okay.
You know, I, I've been put in my place where I should be rightly. Now, of course we can have sermons that uplift and glorify
God and don't necessarily have to talk about sin or something, but I'm saying at the end of the day, if my flesh is evaluating the service, my flesh should be absolutely unhappy with everything that went in, went on in that church service.
Right. Because the flesh directly opposes Christ and everything.
Right. So I get very, I've had that. Oh, it's, it's just, it's, you know,
I I'm comfortable. It's so entertaining. I feel so great. You know, the, the, the worship is, you know, sounds so good and you're just going, oh, but you, you, you, you know, you, you don't need, do you even really understand who
God is? Why we worship? Why we, why there's an ecclesiastical gathering of the brethren and it's commanded in scripture.
And I'm looking, I'm not saying this from a place that I know everything I'm saying, believe me, I've had some huge struggles in my life, even at my age to get to this point and, and understand that.
Sure. You know, I'm an idiot. The Lord has to deal with me harshly on things sometime. I pray one of my, one of my standard prayers is
Lord, please be gentle with me. I know. I'm afraid of his discipline. Yeah. It could really hurt.
Oh, I'm a wuss. I tell him, I know, I know you need to change me, but can you please be gentle about it?
Oh, I prayed for the discipline and then get mad that he disciplined me because I don't like it. And so he's like, what are, what do you, what do you expect?
This is what you were looking for. But yeah, absolutely. Oh man. Good stuff.
All right. Let's get into our last one as we wrap this up. We'll just do four tonight. Okay. Is that okay? Yeah. That way we're not opening too many.
How about if, um, does your wife have any interest at all? What's that? Would your wife have any interest at all?
In what? Probably not tonight, but, uh, yeah, that's,
I mean, that one right there is, is kind of upper alley. It's, it's a, it's a beautiful beer. You want to try it?
You want to do that one? I don't, I don't know if I really want to, I don't know. It's such a nice beer. I don't know if we should waste it on just a couple of sips, but.
Yeah, but, but I mean, uh, I, uh, we can finish it off air. Open it up. Let's go.
Yeah. We're only doing one more. It's a 2019. This is, um. First of all, hold that up for the camera.
Look at, look how gorgeously that's packed. Yeah. It's got a, uh, it's got a boast, uh, the, the, the, the glass area.
This is 2019. I have a lot of these. Uh, I try to buy several each year and I, I have a lot in the, in the basement.
I have a, live in an old a hundred, a hundred year old house with a, with a cold damp basement. I stick them in there.
Perfect. I've got probably, uh, close to 200 bottles of, of different stuff. So are these like on a, are they limited then?
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. They're, uh, this is just, uh, they're limited. They come out on Black Friday. Well, thanks for bringing it to the podcast.
Sure. Sure. It's, um, I, I like an excuse to open one. So I, I accumulate them faster than I drink them.
There you go. So, um, uh, this is, uh, they have variants that are quite, quite lovely.
I mean, the, uh, I really fond of the vanilla variant that I had a few years ago.
And what's this one? This is the regular one, which is, but this is the standard. So I talked about a benchmark about Edmund Fitzgerald being a, or, or Bell's Two -Hearted being a benchmark.
Yeah. This is the, the Imperial Stout that I think all others should be judged by.
Judged by, okay. It doesn't mean this is the best in the world, but it is, it is one of the best beers I've ever had.
And it is, um, there's other ones that are all equally phenomenal, but this is one of the ones that's one of the originals.
And are they pretty consistent throughout their line too? Yes, they, they kind of blend them. And so they are, uh, but they're, they're, they're quite excellent.
Um, this one, as you'll see is much darker. Wow. Look at that color. Yeah. Yeah. Look at that.
This is just a, this is just a wonderful beer. Oh my goodness. We used to, I used to stand in line to get this.
Now I don't have to stand in line anymore, which is kind of nice. County brand stout. And it's, they consider it, uh, they, they kind of build themselves as like one of the original, maybe the original barrel age stout.
Really? But it's a. How old, how, how long have they been? Quite a while. They got, interestingly, they bought, bought out by Anheuser -Busch, but it hasn't affected the quality of these, uh, at all.
I don't, maybe they're letting Goose Island do their thing. None of them. Yeah. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they shut it down.
Sometimes they fake it. None of Goose Island's other offerings or anything I go out of my way for, but.
Right. This one. This one is worth it. Hey, cheers. Cheers. If we can reach here. Here we go.
Thanks for being here tonight, brother. My pleasure. Oh, you're not lying.
I know. I just love this beer. Oh. Isn't it, isn't it glorious? This doesn't taste like, um.
Oh, these are not like. Any other ones that I've ever had. Isn't it, isn't it beautiful? That, uh, that aftertaste is something.
It's, uh, so you've got, uh, chocolate, coffee, black licorice, molasses.
I'm getting coffee big time. Oh yeah. There's coffee for sure. Uh. But not too much. I mean, not overpowering.
Yeah. It's just, and I mean. Oh wow. It's not like I'm making this up. Everybody, if you're. Tastes like I just a bit of cocoa, like a, like a 80 % cocoa bar.
If you just let it sit in your mouth for a minute, it's like that real coke. It's not like candy bar, like cocoa. Right.
It's definitely got the bitterness of, of 80%, like a dark chocolate, but it's, uh, there's enough sweetness there though, that it does tease you.
I don't know. I think it's just, I think this is just one of my all. If I had to pick my favorite beer of all time, this is in my top three.
Oh my goodness. I want to, I kind of want a medium rare steak right now. Oh yeah. It's ribeye.
It's, uh, this is a dessert beer. It's a sipper. Uh, like I said, about 15 % usually.
Yeah. 14, 14 .8. Uh, you know, it depends on the, on the, I don't know what that label.
I think it says 14, seven there. Yep. 14, seven. Okay. Yeah. They usually vary a little bit.
Yeah. So what's really crazy. Have you, did you see the documentary came out years ago, but it's probably 10 or 15 years old.
Uh, and someone really needs an update it, but it was called beer wars. I know.
I've not seen it. It's, uh, I bet you at 2008, maybe.
So think about where craft beer was. Then it was kinda, it was, it'd been around a while, but in the mainstream, it was just kind of really exploding right on the bell curve.
We're probably at the top now, but 2006, seven, eight, it was still, you know, what are you drinking?
I've never heard. What is that? It's a great documentary on. So the lady who made the documentary went into directing, but she was a vice president at Sam Adams.
Oh, uh, so she knew the owner and the brewer personally, and kind of was, you know, cut her teeth on those bears for about eight or 10 years.
So she makes this documentary and it's just essentially the big three and all the crazy little tricks they do to get as much shelf space, uh, buy up any little guy, uh, dogfish head beer was featured in it.
And this was back when he was right. He had one little, one little tap room and wasn't even distributing.
That's how long ago this was. Uh, and he's featured in it. Um, the guy, I don't know who the
CEO of Sam Adams is now, but whoever it was back then was in it. And it's just a phenomenal, it, what it does is it instantly makes you hate, uh, in Bev cores and Miller.
It makes you just hate him. You're like, I don't even want to buy anything that's associated with them. Cause they even give you the whole story of how they like bought.
I think Miller bought lining Kugel, right? They bottle one beer a year in that, in that plant to say that it's bottled there.
And then they just took over manufacture of it. And then basically made it their own thing.
They do sneaky stuff. So when you read it, it says, Oh, bottled in Milwaukee, whatever at the lining
Kugel brewery, you know, half a percent of your beers are bottled there. They're doing it somewhere else overseas.
But anyway, this documentary, like I said, probably 2006, seven, eight, somewhere around there. It's on Netflix.
I think still, you would love it. Now this would be going back in time. You'd go, Oh, it's totally different now, but I would love to see an updated version of that documentary.
Now, where we are, because basically the big three have, you know, beer manufacturers or producers, distributors, whatever you call them.
Um, they're basically just into, they can't, they can't, uh, damn it at all.
You know, up the flow of craft beers. Now they're into, they, they get to a certain point and they'll just, they'll buy out either shut you down.
Right. They're buying up. I mean, founders sold, uh, there's a lot of, a lot of companies that, uh,
Sam Adams, uh, is obviously really big, but, but, uh, yeah, a lot of them have sold out.
What's your personal thought on that? What is your personal thought on an entrepreneur starting a brand, starting a business and then selling it to, you know, especially if it's in the, if it's in the area of something that's craft or art, because this is very divisive for some people.
Why would you sell that? Right. It's a heart. That's a hard one because it sort of reminds me of, uh,
I was talking about, uh, the other day about Phil Collins who was in Genesis.
Yeah. And so when he was in Genesis, you know, they were Prague rock band. They were kind of cool. Definitely not a mainstream selling
England by the pound was kind of a critically acclaimed record. And, and then he, then he goes pop.
Yeah. You know what I'm like? And I have a friend who was really into drummer was really into Prague rock and loved old
Genesis and King Crimson and that stuff. And I, yeah, I said, yeah, you know, I was getting on his case about Phil Collins being a sellout.
He said, man, he said, your shelf life as a rock star is, is limited. Sure. He said, you got to make money when you can make it.
Someone's going to come to you and say, yeah, do this Disney thing. We'll pay you X amount of dollars. He said, how do you say no?
Yeah. And so I have to be careful about judging, you know, so if, uh, if, um, if, uh, what's, um, short's first name.
I can't remember it anymore. Uh, uh, John, John short, John short. Yeah. So if someone goes to John short and says,
Hey, I'll give you a $3 million for your, your outfit or yeah. It's like, cause ballast point out in California.
They, the, the, the people that bought that offered them like 10 times market value.
Yeah. How do you say no to that? You almost can't. Yeah. So here's my thought when I was 17 or 18 to judge him is what
I'm saying. Hard for you to judge a guy who, if somebody makes you a fair offer and then you can walk away a rich man, you know,
I've asked that question to Scott who enjoy, he says, I would do it as long as I could go back and start another brewery.
Okay. That was my point. Cause he says, I'd like to brew. Yeah. Just start something. Do, do the, uh, uh, the
Papa John's, uh, version, uh, that guy, I mean, he, he created pizza hut, sold it to Pepsi.
He went, I'll just go start Papa John's. Let's start making new pizza somewhere else under another name. When I was probably 16, 17, 18.
If you told me one of my bands or one of my artists sold out, I would say, screw them. Right.
But what do I know? I'm 16, 17, 18. I don't know anything about the world sitting here today. Absolutely.
If one of these craft guys want to sell out to the big three, I don't even care if they shut them down as long as they don't have a clause that says they can't go brew and slap a label on something else.
Right. Right. Make that money, brother. Right. If you got, you know what I mean? You got to support your family and, and maybe that propels the next, uh, you know, venture.
I just know I have some guys my age, you know, and they get in the forties and fifties and even older sixties and they go, no, they can't sell.
It's, you know, it's, it's an art. It's that starving artist mentality. And okay. I get it.
But, and I have those friends. Sure. I have friends that are, that are much better musicians than me, but don't know the first thing about business and will be starving their whole life.
And I wish everyone could hear their music because they're amazing. But it's like, you got to have a little bit of the entrepreneurial in you too.
Right. If you're in the arts. Yeah. So it's hard for me to judge bottom line. I can't, I mean, wicked weed was a very famous North Carolina, uh, craft brewer.
Okay. And they, they, they sold to one of the, one of the big boys. How long ago was that?
When were they within the last five years? Okay. And, um, and they were like one of the top, top craft brewers in North Carolina, which is saying a lot because man, they're
North Carolina is just loaded. They're, they're like more than Michigan, you know, they're just loaded with craft breweries.
And, uh, but they said, Hey, having that capital, having that money gives us a chance to do more stuff.
I don't know if I believe it, but even so I don't blame them. You know, it's hard when someone says I'll write a check.
It's a lot of work to start a brewery and get it going like any business, right?
It's, it's a lot of work, a lot of cleaning. Cause I, I mean, I had friends that told me
I should, I should start a brewery and I considered it and I even talked to started talking to people and I, I started doing a investigating, but it's hard work.
And I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure I wanted to, it's like a 90 % cleaning and 10 % paperwork.
You know, I told Scott, I said, if I, if I was like you and got people to do the lifting and the cleaning, maybe
I wouldn't mind so much. It's the same thing. So I'm helping a client right now. We're opening a brewery in, uh,
Dundee. So I'm helping him through the finance process, the lease process, the rezoning, all that kind of it.
Um, which is funny. He goes, how much did I pay? He go, eh, we'll work out the bar, the bar tab in perpetuity, you know, uh, in the future.
And he kind of laughed, but makes great beer actually. Just, uh, let me taste one of his, uh, new
England, um, IPAs, uh, recently. But the whole point of this is everyone has this idea of a brewery, just like they do about a restaurant.
Most rest people who want to own a restaurant just want to be the guy that goes around talking to the, Hey, I'm glad to see,
Hey, we're going to get this guy an entree, right? They want to be that guy. When in fact, if you own a restaurant, super thin profit margins, first of all, and I've helped some people open restaurants.
It's insane. You know, that's why I don't complain when I go to a restaurant, go look at these prices. It's, I mean, it's affected gas prices, food prices, distribution, right?
And then secondly, you're usually scrubbing the, you know, you're scrubbing down the fryers and you're sweeping and you don't get to be the maitre d.
You don't get to be, you know, and it's the same way with a brewery. You really have to get to a point in that business to where you get to be that guy that comes in and goes,
Oh yeah, I brewed something new. And now I want to taste it and hang out with the customers. There's a lot of blood, sweat and tears that go in before that.
That's right. You know, that's right. And I wasn't sure. I thought maybe I might not be young enough and wasn't confident
I could get there fast enough, you know, to, to be that guy. Cause that's the guy I would want to be.
But, but on the, but on the flip side, if you have great beer, the people come. Right.
Right. If you have a great product, you can be in, now it's not optimal. You can be in a horrible location. You can have a, you know, a minimum staff.
Right. You can have a building or a place to go that isn't that appeasing. But if you have a, how many times have you been to a restaurant that has great food, but they're nothing special on the presentation or the location or, you know, they don't have a big, bright, shiny sign.
You go, but they have good food. I'll go back there. It's the same way in the brewery business. Absolutely. If you got a good beer, good atmosphere, you know, you'll, you'll attract business to yourself and maybe it takes a year or two.
Right. But you eventually you shouldn't be, if you're the brewer, you shouldn't be the one cleaning the tables and sweeping the floor.
Not that it's beneath you. It's just, everyone serves a different role in a business like that. That's right. And I think, I think what we were talking about before about.
So we're getting your commitment right here on the podcast. You're opening a brewery, right? Well, we were talking about.
You heard it here first. I think the trend, yeah, not true, honey, in case you're watching.
But we, I think the trend, the trend you're going to see, you know, talk about the big boys buying up to the little guys.
Yeah. What you're going to see more of is the local breweries, I think are going to hang on.
And so it's kind of cool if we can, we didn't drink this one, but this is these guys are these are local inside the five.
Yeah. I just love the name of that one. Read the name of that. You got to read it slow because there's a couple entendres in there.
Oh, yeah. It's funny. It's the, let me see. Right. It's a.
Grandma got run over. Grandma. Yeah. Grandma. Got ran over by a rain beer. Yeah. So, so they're, yeah, the, they call that inside the five, the, one of the guys that started that was a, was a punter for a professional football team,
I think down in Miami, possibly. Okay. And so the punter ideally would punt the ball inside the five yard line.
Inside the five. See, I didn't know that. That's where the name came from. And he was, got into craft brewing hobby when he was playing football and, you know, shelf life for a football player isn't very long either.
No. And so he opened up the brewery. I guess he, he made friends with the guys at funky
Buddha, which is like, man, probably Florida's best craft brewer. They're like the three Floyds of Florida.
Crazy, popular, crazy, good beer. Funky Buddha's tops. Anything they make is good.
You know, three Floyds, funky Buddha. They don't do anything bad. I mean, you know, founders is a great job too, right here in Michigan.
You know, founders doesn't make a bad beer. Yeah. So, yeah. So inside the five is good. They do a good job.
I should say just for a, as we wrapped this up here as for an honorable mention, the super deluxe from black rocks.
So this is about as far North as you can go in Michigan and Marquette in the upper peninsula. And I just love the fact that this probably technically it had to travel farther than a beer that I would get in Southern Tennessee.
It's about that far. It's about nine hours away. It's too bad. I didn't try it because this is the one take it with you out of all these.
I don't know. Take it. Yeah. Yeah. You'll take it with you tonight. I have a bunch of them. Okay. All right.
So let's wrap it up here. We had some, we had some great beer, some great discussion. Absolutely loved what you brought tonight,
Randy, just because it's so timely too for people listening, you know, to, to have that balanced understanding of who
God is in his word, right? The beginning of wisdom is the fear of God. And I've always said, man, if we could just have more believers understand who
God truly is and all his righteousness, holiness, justice, wrath, right.
Instead of focusing on one character aspect of God, but understanding all those and how they all work together perfectly immutable and all powerful.
And what you said was actually speaking to me. So even if you guys didn't get anything out of this, out of this episode, which
I'm sure you did all you listeners what you said tonight, Randy really was uplifting and convicting in some way too.
And I absolutely love you coming here to share that. He had any final words for us.
You want to sum everything up in, in, in your one minute summation.
Jesus said, if you love me, you'll obey my commands. And that's another thing, you know, looking at Jesus words, that's what, that's, what's kind of, you know, convicting me.
It's like, you know, that button holding as they used to call it, you know, it's, you know, if you love me, you'll obey my commands.
And so I think it's incumbent upon a believer to find out what those commands are and say,
Jesus, what do you want me to do? You know, and we, um, at Bob's funeral hit one of his favorite hymns, maybe favorite was who is on the
Lord's side. And it's just a, it's like a marching tune, right. And we're singing it.
And I'm like, who is on the Lord's side? Who will serve the
King? And, and Jesus saying, you know, you're going to serve me.
You're going to be part of my army. Are you, you, you know, if you love me, you'll obey my commands.
Yeah, absolutely. That's so good. Reminds me of, uh, the Johnny Cash song. When a man comes around, there's a man coming around taking names, you know, looking who to love and who to blame.
Uh, but, uh, yeah. So Randy, thank you so much for being on, uh, love you brother.
It was a great time just having a conversation with you. I'm sure this was beneficial as well to everyone listening guys.
We appreciate you hanging in there with us. Um, and if you're a craft beer drinker, go check out some of these too.
I think, uh, you enlightened us a little bit on some, uh, beer knowledge as well, which is always helpful.
Um, and I'll link everything up here for you guys. So you can go check those out as always. We appreciate you checking out dmwpodcast .com.
Make sure you leave us comments, um, suggestions, and make sure you leave us the funny, uh, worst
Christmas story or worst Christmas gift you ever got. We're going to read it live here on the 22nd. We're going to do some giveaways for you guys.
Uh, so we can get some t -shirts and some hats and some other stuff into your hands for Christmas. All right, guys, as always, we appreciate you.
God bless. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at dead men walking podcast for full video podcast episodes and clips or email us at dead men walking podcast at gmail .com.