The American Churchman: US Covenant & Act Like Women

Divine Immutability and God’s Unchanging Being

Welcome to the American Churchman podcast where we encourage men, Christian men, to be better Christian men. How does that sound?

That sounds great to me. I think it's a good time.

We talk about the Bible and God's attributes, and Matt Pearson usually does the attributes. Matt is my co-host. Hey, Matt.

How are you doing, John?

Oh, well, we were just talking about it.

We were, yeah.

I took a bike ride, and let's just say your muscles don't work as well in the cold, and I hit a wall. It was a miserable thing. I'm not going cycling. I don't understand these people who go cycling in the winter in New England, but I know some who do.

And I don't know if they're just tougher than me. I don't know what it is, but I can't do it. Anyway, but I'm doing all right. I'm pumped. I'm ready to talk about the subjects we have today. I should remind everyone, TruthScript does sponsor this podcast.

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We are 501c3. Okay, with that, Matthew, what attribute of God do we have today?

Yes, our attribute of God that we have today is divine immutability, which is always a good one because I think that this is one of the attributes that has a lot of very good pastoral application. If you're like in a pastoral role and you're preaching a sermon, you come across a text, which seems to communicate something like divine.

I don't know why my brain went blank on it. Immutability, I think it's very good for the lady to understand this attribute because it helps you to better grasp the promises of God and his faithfulness to us.

So I really love this one. So, but yeah, I'm ready to get into it. So divine immutability. I think when we talk about this, I'm going to read two verses from scripture, one from the Old Testament and one from the new.

So our first one that we're going to read through is just Psalm 102 verses 26 through 28. And our second one will be James 1, 17. So Psalm 102 verses 26 to 28. It reads, this is from both of these are going to just be from the ESV.

It says, they will perish, but you will remain. They will all wear out like a garment. You will change them like a robe and they will pass away. But you are the same. And your years have no end. The children of your servants shall dwell secure.

Their offspring shall be established before you. From James 1, 17. That verse reads, every good gift and every good gift and every perfect gift is from above coming down from the father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

So in my definition of divine immutability, I'll be using, I've been using a lot of Bavink and Bavink will still come into play here, but I decided to use two sources for this. Just Richard Moeller, his dictionary of Latin and Greek theological terms, and then Bavink as well.

So these will just be helpful walking us through, but divine immutability, if I was to kind of try and condense what they said, it would basically just be this, that God is free from, so when we say mutability, immutability versus mutability, when you think of mutation, that means a change in something.

So divine mutability or immutability would be that God is free from all mutation of being, attributes, place, or will, and from all physical and ethical change. In other words, God does not change. God remains the same in his being, in his essence, at all times, forever, throughout eternity, God is without change, as well as in regard to, as I read there, and his will.

So whatever God wills and decrees comes to pass, God does not just willy-nilly change his mind on things. So God does not repent or change his mind. Now, when I say God does not repent, if you're a good reader of your Bible, you may say, wait a minute, when I'm going through my Bible reading plan and I get to Genesis 6, and it talks about how all the peoples grieved him because of what they did, so he repented.

Does that not, do not the words of scripture directly contradict this notion that God is without change, that he does not repent? Well, that's not the case. For when the scriptures speak this way, they're speaking, they're using anthropomorphic language, or to use the big fancy word that Richard Muller used, the scriptures speak of God anthropopathically.

In other words, it'll predicate of God certain human or creaturely attributes in order to communicate something which is hard for us to understand, basically. So, for example, the scriptures will sometimes say, like, God covers us with his wings.

Does this mean that God has actual wings and he flies like a bird? Of course not. It's using figurative language in order to communicate something about God. So, these things are ascribed to God, so God repenting or changing, this is ascribed to him anthropopathically in order to indicate not a change within God, but rather a change in his relation between himself and his creation, perhaps.

So, God in judging man, so if God is upholding men, but he decides to judge them, there's a change in the relation. Now, that does not at all alter a change in his very being or essence or his will, rather it indicates a change in relation, which God has always foreordained, thus keeping God immutable.

And there's some pretty important implications behind God being immutable, really. So, were God not immutable, he actually would not be God. And this comes down to the fact that God himself is pure being.

God is not ever becoming, he is not changing, because we are becoming. There was a time when we were not, so we became. So, God himself, he is pure being. And where do we get that from? Well, how does God reveal himself to Moses in the burning bush?

He says, I am that I am. Him saying, I am, is a declaration that he is pure fundamental being in and of himself. He is not becoming. True being belongs to him who does not change. And given that God is he who is, he cannot change.

As every change would diminish his very being. In God, there is no becoming, because this would put him on the level of a creature. And if you put him on the level of a creature, there no longer remains a creator-creature distinction.

And because of that, the difference between the creator and the creature, it entirely hinges on the contrast between being and becoming. So, it's a really big concept, this idea that God is being, he's not becoming, whereas we as created things, we're always in flux and change.

And it's fundamental to the gospel that we are creatures who do change, because the point is that God saves us in order to renew and change us and make us be conformed more to his character. And to end my spiel, I will conclude with a quote from Bavink on this topic, which I believe has a lot of good application for not just pastors, not just lay people, but for all Christians in regard to our journey to being holy.

Bavink says, quote, we humans can rely on God or rely on him. He does not change in his being, knowing or willing. He eternally remains who he is. Every change is foreign to God. In him, there is no change in time, for he is eternal, nor in location, for he is omnipresent, nor in essence, for he is pure being.

And the reason why that's of such great comfort to us is when God makes a promise to us, we can always trust that he will keep that promise. As long as we meet the conditions which he gives to us and those conditions that we have to meet, we only meet those because God gives us the ability to do so.

And he guarantees that we're going to be able to do so if he gives us those gifts. So it's a great promise to know that you don't have to worry about God changing his mind on you because God is immutable and everything that he decrees will come to pass.

So in a nutshell, that's divine immutability.

Yeah, what a comfort. And I think this is a unique thing to Christianity. I'm going through all the other religions in my mind. And even Christian cults like Mormonism don't have this because God is becoming in that, or at least there was a stage at which God was like us and then he became who he is.

And then we're on this journey to become like he is. And in Islam, I know there's an arbitrary nature to Allah and all the ancient pagan like Greco-Roman stories and so forth. There's total arbitrary situations.

And so yeah, it's really cool that that's something that's very unique to Christianity. And I think that's the attribute to probably more than any other attribute. I don't know, it's hard. There's a lot of good ones, right?

But when you're going through a hard time, when you need stability more than anything else, that's the stable element in the universe. You don't have, maybe element's not the word I should use, but that's the stable, I mean, it's not in the universe, but it's, you know, it's, you know what I'm trying to say.

No, yeah.

You're speaking analogically. We understand for sure.

Yes, yes, yes.

So.

This isn't presbytery exam, don't worry.

You're right, yeah.

If I was on an ordination committee, they might ask me to clarify. But yeah, when everything feels like it's falling apart in your life, that's the one thing that will be stable, guaranteed. God sustained yesterday, today and forever.

So excellent job. Thank you, Matthew. Now we have some articles today to talk about. And since it's actually probably good that we're going to have a shorter episode, just because I don't think there's, there's some really good stuff to say, but I don't think that it's exhaustive.

Like, I don't think we're going to spend a long time. So the two articles that I thought would be good to talk about were first, this really short one by Pastor Mike Selecki called When Mercy is Granted Responding to Trump's Victory.

And I know probably some of you are all trumped out. The last two episodes, I think we've talked about Trump. But there is, of course, we could spend a lot of time on this, but I think it's, we don't have to.

I think this is a point that should probably be made, and we can make it briefly. I'll just read this paragraph, and then we can talk about it a little bit. But Pastor Selecki says, as I consider this Old Testament passage, and he's talking about Amos 7, 1 through 9.

He said, I knew any parallel between Israel and the United States must not be taken out of context. The United States is not a nation that has been given covenant promises like Israel. There is no promise in the Bible that the Lord will restore and renew the United States like he will for Israel.

That said, I recognize our God is more than just the God of Israel. He is also the sovereign Lord of all the earth. He is also God who is long-suffering, merciful, and gracious. He is a God who delights in answering the prayers of his people, no matter the nation they pray for or where they are located.

Since all of this is revealed to be true, and since God commands believers to pray for all those in authority so that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, it seems clear to me that we as God's people living in the U .S. ought to ask the Lord's for mercy on our rebellious nation.

And so anyway, and then he talks about responding when mercy is granted. And I think, you know, in the context of the Trump victory, that's how he's interpreting it, that this is a mercy from God. This is four years where, you know, some of the things that would have happened had Kamala Harris won will not happen.

And hopefully we can actually see some good things, positive things happen as well. But anyway, like the thing to maybe camp on a little bit there is there are Christians out there, some of them may be listening to this podcast, who I think treat the United States like Israel.

And I'll just briefly, like this is a little story. I talked to someone not too long ago, someone fairly influential, actually, and in Christianity. And they told me that there's only two nations that have ever covenanted with God.

And it was, you know, you can guess which ones, right? It was Israel and the United States. Those are the only two. And the United States covenanted with God. There's like debate on this, whether it was at the pilgrims who did it, was it the Puritans who did it?

Was it the Jamestown settlement? But somewhere in there, someone made a deal with God that this nation was going to be a light to the other nations, kind of like Israel, and propagate the gospel throughout the world.

And you could just look and see all the missions, organizations that have formed in the United States. And I think what happens here, and maybe Matthew, you can jump in after I say this, if you have a thought on it.

But it seems to me like this becomes kind of like an explanation for like why things are so bad, right? So Biden's so bad, and we have all these horrible things. And instead of blaming the culprits for it, it kind of like redirects the blame to believers.

And then the pressure becomes like, well, if the church really did its job, and maybe there's some point to be made on that. But if Christians would just follow these, follow God again, then like everything would fall into place.

The United States would be, that would make America great again. And so the problem then becomes, it's not Joe Biden. Joe Biden's just sent from God as a curse on Christians who aren't following him. Now, you know, and I'm not saying like there isn't a sense in which like God does do that kind of thing.

Even to pagan nations, he will judge them for their sin. But there is more being said in that, that there's an obligation that God has. If we follow him, we're going to get blessings. And if we don't, we're going to get curses in the same way that Israel had blessings and curses because we made this deal.

So I don't know if you have any comments on that, but I think that's not right. I don't think you can prove that from scripture.

Yeah.

So I do not believe the idea that there's only been two nations that have covenanted with God, America and Israel. I don't think that holds up. I actually, maybe I'm a bit more extreme. I think multiple nations have covenanted with God.

I believe that Israel's covenant with God was very particular in that under the old covenant, there is a sense in which there is almost like a fusion of like the, you know, the body politic with the church itself, essentially, because God covenanted in a particular way.

But you see other nations or when you think of what is required of civil magistrates or what is a duty of nations? One of those duties, I believe, is to acknowledge both tables of the law and to, you know, acknowledge God and to covenant with him collectively as a people.

And I think that the magistrate should be the one who initiates this. And that I believe that there have been nations in history that have done this, that are not Israel. And you even see this within scripture.

I mean, when you look at the book of Daniel, end of Daniel chapter four, Nebuchadnezzar is publicly acknowledging the Lord. Or you look at the end of, I think it's, yeah, Daniel chapter six with the story of, you know, Daniel going in the lion's den.

How does it end? Well, Daniel escapes the corrupt people that framed him were put in there. And then Darius writes unto everyone in the nation. He says, peace be multiplied unto you. I make a decree that in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel, for he is the living God and steadfast forever in his kingdom.

That which shall not be destroyed in his dominion shall be even unto the end. So, I mean, we see magistrates publicly acknowledging God. So you see this idea that all the peoples are called upon to acknowledge him.

And in a sense, there's a relationship being formed. Now, is it of the same nature as a covenant God made with Israel? No, that was extraordinarily, that was extraordinary in particular. But is there this principle that men by nature owe allegiance to God, not just individually, but through, but collectively as nations?

I believe that that is the case. And when you look at Matthew 28 and 19, go ye therefore and make disciples of all nations, or as a King James would put it, disciple the nations, baptize the nations. There's definitely a sense in which collectives are called to acknowledge the Lord.

Whether you want to call that a covenant or not, fine. But I find nothing wrong with it. But I think that this particularizing of the U .S. as being special and set apart is probably not the wisest thing to do.

Though, as someone who is an American, as much as I'd love for it to be true, I don't really think that totally holds. But those are my thoughts on that.

I think in principle, I agree with everything you said. I think the question is, yeah, like what do you label that? So a covenant in the basic sense, I guess, is just an agreement, right? So if you want to say that's an agreement, like we agree to worship God.

And with the expectation that we follow his principles, he is going to, in a general sense, bless us. Because even if like in a proverbial sense, like you look at Proverbs, like you do things that conform to God's order, it will go better for you generally.

But I guess what I'm trying to say, and you're saying the same thing really, is that there is a special relationship God had with Israel where they had like particular boundaries. They had a specific land.

They had a specific people and an inheritance. And through them, the nations would be blessed. The United States is not the same thing. People treat it that way, though. Like here's a good like experiment on that, right?

If you ever bring up the idea of secession or like, hey, maybe the United States is too big or maybe we should like adjust borders or something. I know there's several projects in different states to try to bring that about, like the Greater Idaho Project is one.

People freak out. And it's an interesting thing. Like if you think about it, it's really weird, right? Like these are lines on a map. People change. Like why is that such a sacred thing? Like you can't switch a border or like what if, I mean, I remember studying about like New England during the War of 1812.

They had the Hartford Convention. They were thinking of joining Canada.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Oh, that was I think one of the major first sort of like secession ideas. Well, it wasn't the South. It was New England. But, you know, like if you ever said that today, if you said like Alaska or Texas or whatever, like people freak out.

And like what is that? Like there's this like it's got to be 50 states. It's got to look like this. It's like locked in. And this is the special God's country or divine. You know, we have the Temple of Democracy in Washington.

And like it is this strange thing. Like we have this like this revolutionary mission to spread democracy throughout the world. That's like our job somehow. And so we got to like put our hands into every foreign conflict.

And yeah, it is. I think it is like working off of this idea that we're kind of like Israel, even people who are secular are still kind of running off of this like incorrect view of American exceptionalism.

And I think there is a correct view of it. But like that's that's a warped view.

And I think so. I think that will largely some of that has to do with is this understand sometimes this comes down to like localism or regionalism versus nationalism and where you would land in that kind of argument.

But for those that lean a bit more like nationalistic, it comes down to somewhat of like inheritance, especially if you like have ancestors that have been in the U .S. for a long time and you're not all generally located in one region, you're somewhat spread out.

There's a sense in which America, like the country, the nation state with its borders as it is, this is your inheritance in a sense. And people may see it as a duty to not just care for their own local region.

Like, oh, I've been in Florida for this amount of time. I only really care about Florida. But to see the whole as being this is your inheritance. You can go anywhere here and you're still an American.

If you move to Mississippi, will you be a Mississippian? Sure, in a sense, but not necessarily culturally and all that. But are you still an American in America? Yes. And so people attach value to that.

I don't think that it always has to come down to like, oh, America is a special chosen people of God. I think it literally just comes down to I love I love people and place. And that does extend beyond my local region.

I think that sometimes is what it comes down to.

Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I mean, it it really depends on how firmly someone holds to it. I'm more like I'm talking about like the freak out like the like what you can't really even have the discussion because like it's so sacred.

You can't even consider like what would be more beneficial. And that's just like that's not the full like I'm not saying that alone proves that people are viewing the United States as a covenant. Like, I think some of the weird stuff is even more like there's a number of things that come together on this.

But like, I don't know if you have any like relatives or friends of maybe a certain age bracket to look at Trump as like almost a messianic figure. And like that, that it's good that you like respect a guy who's brave and stuff, but you got to like put things in perspective here and he's not.

So anyway, I don't know. More can be said about that, but I don't know if you have any final thoughts. I just think it's it's good to set our expectations and like the expectation I have is the United States needs to honor God, just like every nation is required to honor God or every country, every region, every empire.

And we don't have like a unique relationship that is like far above like every other nation, like where it's just like Israel, the United States or something like that. Like that's where we're great people.

Like it's like on Father's Day, my dad's the greatest dad. And I feel that about the United States. And there's some really awesome things that we can talk about. But we're not like in this unilateral covenant where God is giving us this revolutionary mission and blessings.

If we obey curses, if we don't because of that relationship. So that's just what I think.

Sounds like you said your piece. Yeah, we could probably go on for a while, but now that's yeah, that's fine.

That's good.

All right.

Well, a few comments and then we'll move on and spend the last 10 minutes on this article on dating. And so I guess it's not really dating, but marriage actually applies to that. Well, I'm trying to include you here, Matthew.

I appreciate that. Thank you.

So, yeah, you need to buy a real king hat, John, says Von Bright. We don't have it here. Sorry, we only have tractor supply. That's why I got tractor supply. Why would a wicked magistrate adhere to any?

But I think it's any of God's law. I don't know. I don't think they would.

They probably wouldn't, which is why we need just good magistrates.

I used to be a proud Colorado and not anymore. Yeah, it went deeper blue last election, if you can believe it.

You can still be proud of Colorado and its history and heritage and whatnot, while still acknowledging that the current state of it is terrible potheads. You just do terrible things.

You know, not everyone can live in Florida.

Yeah, it's nice to go, you know, but it's nice in the winter if you want to go skiing. So I like Colorado. Colorado is fun.

Do you go to Colorado?

I didn't.

I go a bit like when I was a kid. It's been a while since I went there. I guess I'm still a kid. I'm I'm a I'm a little baby, 23 year old.

So I haven't been in a minute.

I didn't.

I did. Well, I wasn't that good at it, though. I pretended to twist my ankle so I could get a ride off of it.

So, oh, man.

Yeah, I was I was a baby. But, you know, I should try it again now and I think about it.

Yeah, it's fun. Everyone likes to snowboard, but I don't want to pay the money to spend a whole day falling.

I know how to ski, but yeah, fair enough.

Acting Like a Woman in Dating and Marriage

OK, so if you want to attract a godly husband, first act like a woman.

So.

So, yeah, we talked about this briefly beforehand. I was like, well, I'm married, so I'll let you pepper in whatever you you'd like to say from the dating scene. I'm kind of curious what the Zoomer dating seems like a little bit.

But yeah, it's interesting, for sure.

Well, I'm I'm sure it is. I mean, it's changed so much in the United States over the last century. And I'm sure that dating now is so much different than even when I was finding my wife. Some of it was becoming facilitated online, but there was still kind of like this.

I don't know if that's a good idea. And now I think most of it's probably facilitated online, which changes the dynamic. I would imagine women are attractive. That's the first point here. But probably so true.

Sorry, John, continue.

It is true.

Roberts 1122, like a gold ring and a pig snout is a beautiful woman without discretion. So beauty is not everything. Physical beauty. But God did create women to be attractive to men and vice versa. And and so he's saying so this is interesting.

So he says here, Solomon is saying that no woman is beautiful regardless of outward appearance if she isn't feminine. And ladies, men don't separate these as distinctly as you may think. All right. So here's here's a question then for I guess women, you're getting a little bit of a fly in the wall experience here with Matthew and I talking about this.

But so have you met a beautiful girl that without knowing her, you think like, oh, maybe she's someone like a prospect, right? Someone to talk to and get to know. But then she exudes masculine traits and it becomes unattractive.

I know I speaking for myself, I've definitely experienced this. I don't know if you've had that experience in the dating courtship.

Who the courtship scene, that's an I don't know what I did. No, I've definitely seen that before where a woman can be like very beautiful objectively. But just, you know, the way she acts may be a bit too masculine, almost like in a sense, like you can have like certain little traits here and there, I guess.

And it's not the worst thing in the world, you know, especially if you're like a girl that's grown up with brothers. It makes sense in some degrees or the other. But if like your whole personality is is that like it obviously, you know, if you're going to do any of that at all, I feel like there has to be a bit of a balance.

And again, I say I say all this as an unmarried man. So I say with fear and trembling, you know, I'm not the I'm not the guru. But, yeah, no, I mean, just as yeah, I've definitely encountered that before, though, where a girl could be potentially attractive.

But certain masculine traits repel the man. And that just makes sense. I mean, there are plenty of guys out there that they're they're handsome guys. They work out. They look good. They, you know, they look like they take care of themselves with them.

They they talk like I can't really say that word on YouTube. They just they talk like, yeah, yeah. They talk like a, you know, a bundle of six. And so like that obviously is going to be off putting to women or they don't really exude masculine energy.

They're not brave. They're very insecure in themselves. They're constantly needing reassurance. And so in the same way that that's going to repel women, obviously men are going to be repelled when a girl acts like a guy.

That's just that's just how it works.

Yeah.

Well, someone asked if a tomboy female would be too masculine traits. Not I don't think necessarily like because not tomboy is usually like like like like who's like Pollyanna, I guess, was a tomboy. Like I'm trying to think of like in pop culture references like they like play baseball.

It's like a girl's good at baseball.

If a girl if a girl likes to play sports, go fishing, go hunting, go shooting. That's not that big a deal. That's that's fine. That means that if you're into those things, that means, oh, cool, I'll just bring my girlfriend or wife to go do these things with me.

And she won't be whining the whole time. That's great.

I did take my wife into a tree stand once and it was the last time I think I've ever been in a tree stand with her. Yeah. It's like the first I think we were dating. I think we were married yet, actually.

And I was like, oh, this is the way we could spend time together. And the whole time I was like, be quiet. You're going to scare away all the deer. But yeah. So so so I give me I'll give you an example of what I think a masculine trait would be.

So a girl who's like very aggressive, I think, initiates with a guy. I'm not saying a girl can't ever let a guy know that she's available. Right. That's different. But like I have had experiences before I was married with girls who were just aggressive.

They you know, they wanted to be like the initiator in the relationship. And yeah. Yeah. Like tell me where I needed to be and like try to to to like ask me out and that kind of thing. Like that's an immediate turnoff.

Here's the thing, though. I think there are a lot of guys who want that in a sense. And honestly, though, ladies, I don't think you want a guy like that. You don't want a guy who wants you to make all the decisions.

He has mommy issues. Yeah, there's issues there. You want a guy who wants your input, but who can be decisive because that's his job in life. And that's going to affect your marriage later on. So that would be an example, perhaps of like a masculine trait.

Yeah. But yeah. So let's let's keep going with the article here. So, OK, so, OK, here's we're getting this could be spicy, but I can't change the way I look. And who's the author of this? Who wrote this?

This was Dan. I think it's allowing. So he's aware that I've lost my place here. I can't change the way I look. OK. He says you really can. So I'm going to get in trouble here. I'm going to.

I know I'm going to try. I'm a. I'm a guy in my. I'm a young guy in my early 20s. I'm getting more trouble than you, John. I'm married. Oh, I'm not. Yeah. Yeah. You're good. You're good.

Here's here's the thing. I'll say what Matthew can't hear, ladies. And this applies. This could this applies to guys. OK, too. Maybe differently. But you do need to put in a little effort in the way you look.

Same with with guys. But I don't know what the dynamic I can't really quantify it. But I think for ladies, it's even I don't know. It's more so in a sense. Like it's it's I don't know, for some reason, like a guy coming in.

Like, especially if he has a blue collar job and he's dirty and stuff, it's like, you know, he's got to freshen up before he goes out on a date and stuff. But I don't know. It's somewhat expected, I guess.

There are there are girls that some of them actually very beautiful girls, but they just put no effort into it. And I remember this from the dating scene. And here's the thing I wanted to say about that.

Put the looks thing on the shelf. I know like girls can get like sensitive about like, oh, guys just are objectifying women and stuff. Yeah, OK. Guys are visual. But here's the thing. There's a character thing here.

And I think that it says something about you. And the same goes for guys here. If you don't prepare yourself to be presentable, then it raises questions about what other things in your life are you letting slide?