Should Women Serve in the Secret Service?

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In the real world, you know, part of what actually happens in these military situations is like you put a woman in there and all the men soldiers are doing stupid things trying to protect the woman.

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Welcome to Bible Bash, where we aim to equip the saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask.

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We're your hosts Harrison Kerrig and Pastor Tim Mullett, and today we'll answer the age -old question, should women serve in the secret service?

01:59

Now Tim, as we kick this episode off, what Bible verse do you have for us related to the topic of women and these sort of service roles?

02:07

Tim Mullett Yeah, sure. So, Isaiah 19 .16 says, Isaiah 19 .16

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says, So, that's it.

02:26

That's one. Now Tim, how could that possibly relate to the topic that we're discussing today?

02:33

Tim Mullett I mean, God does the ghastly thing that he's not really allowed to do, and he points out the differences between men and women.

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I mean, obviously, this is one of those things where God has designed men and women differently, obviously.

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They have different purposes, and they have different functions, and God is more than able and capable and willing.

02:55

God is very, very willing to generalize about the differences between men and women, and God hasn't designed women for battle.

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This is something that the Bible will spell out over and over and over again in a wide variety of ways. But then a sign of judgment against the

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Egyptians would be that the men, even the men would act like women. That would be a sign of judgment against them.

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And what does it mean to act like women? Well, what it means to act like women is to tremble with fear in front of danger.

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So, when you think about the role of a Secret Service agent, I mean, part of their job is to have courage and strength in the midst of stressful and dangerous situations, and not to, you know, cower in fear or duck.

03:37

You know, you're not supposed to duck below the President. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

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Typically frowned upon, you know. Yeah, you're not supposed to do that. What you're supposed to do is you're supposed to cover him.

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Recently, I saw the assassination attempt against Reagan, and he was basically dogpiled by all the male

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Secret Service agents at that point. And then you compare that to the recent Trump thing, and you see the lady ducking below to cover herself.

04:11

And then you see the fumbling with the gun and all the awkwardness and everything else.

04:16

But yeah, so God hasn't designed women for battle, that's for sure. So, why is that such a…

04:24

I mean, you know, you're making jokes, essentially, about how God does the thing he's not allowed to do here, and he points out the differences between men and women.

04:32

Why is it that when you see an example like this, where basically you have the assassination attempt on Donald Trump, and you have all these guys that kind of rush him eventually, and it seems like they dogpile him, maybe they don't quite dogpile him, but they're at least trying to push him down to the ground and stay over him, basically, to try and shield him from possibly more incoming rounds.

05:09

I saw the picture of the lady who, yeah, she's behind all of that happening, and she kind of ducks underneath all of it, instead of trying to help get on top of Donald Trump.

05:25

And so you see something like that, very obviously, you have two completely different responses to that situation, and then later on they're trying to shove the president into his car, into his vehicle, and you have these two ladies,

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Secret Service people who, one is trying to, I guess, holster her sidearm, and she just can't do it.

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I mean, you know, like, in the middle of the situation, she can't get it put away, and then the other one just looks completely lost and doesn't, looks like she has no idea what's going on or what she needs to be doing in that moment.

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And so you see all this happening, and then, you know, there's people pointing it all out, even some pretty prominent, you know, popular people, at least as far as the internet is concerned, they're pointing all this out.

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And then you're kind of, I think what I noticed was a lot of people were lecturing those people, essentially, on how you ought not to respond that way, because, you know, you're essentially like,

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I guess, pun unintended or intended, but you're dogpiling on these ladies who are just trying their best or whatever.

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And so why is it that you have such a response like that where, and there's even other people who are essentially, like, completely denying the claim, like, hey, women can be just as good as men in all these situations.

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And so you have these different people with these different perspectives, but then they're all converging together to say, hey, no, you can't say that about women.

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You can't dogpile on them like this. So why is it that people will have a response like that when our eyes are plainly telling us that the men and the women are different?

07:25

Yeah, I mean, so part of it is I think most people have this impulse that you should protect women from embarrassment and scorn, and you don't treat women the same way that you would treat a man.

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So, in other words, I mean, I think we've done episodes like this before, but I do think when you think about the nature of the way that God has made women, women are obviously more sensitive than men and more compassionate than men, more prone to emotion than men.

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I mean, like, if I believed in love languages, I would say that most guys love languages is like mild form of teasing or something along those lines.

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So most guys, they really do like playful teasing. That's not pointed.

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That's not, you know, it's not meant to tear down.

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It's meant to build up. And guys like that sort of thing. But then when you think about the way that women work,

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I mean, women, you know, they'd be mortified by most of the stuff that go on.

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And that's part of the reason why we've drugged a generation of children, like boy children at this point, is because we have a bunch of ladies who are horrified at the thought of how they treat each other on a regular basis.

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And they're trying to civilize them, like all the masculinity out of them at that point. But, you know, I think everyone has this impulse to say that you should shelter a woman.

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You should protect her from embarrassment. You know, you should protect her from danger. She is the weaker vessel.

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You should show her honor in that way. She's made differently. You know, she's not as tough like mentally.

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She's not as tough physically, all that. And so you have people who have these impulses that I think these are right impulses.

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But then what's happening is you put you have like a clash of two different worldviews that are happening in the same kind of situation.

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So, in other words, like if that's what a woman is, she shouldn't be a secret service agent, right? Like she's not made for it.

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Like that's not how she's made. She's not designed to be a secret service agent because this isn't that kind of job.

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You know, like this isn't the kind of job where you're trying to protect her from danger. So part of what's happening is you're living in a society where we're being told men and women are the same.

09:38

There's nothing different about them. They're basically the same. The only differences are largely superficial.

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And the lady also can have a baby too. I don't know why that would be.

09:54

I guess she's just a special man, like a little bit better man, but she's basically the same. So then you put them in roles that they're obviously not designed to do.

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I mean you can watch any number of… I mean with the advent of the internet, we have the capacity to make this into a spectacle in a way that we used to not be able to.

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So in times past, we used to all know this, but then you can't put it on display in video form.

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But I mean you just see video after video after video online of women going into these dangerous situations.

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Like lady cops who are trying to arrest an old guy and can't arrest the old guy.

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So some civilian has to come along and help out. Some man has to come along and help her do her job or whatever.

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So you see you're living in a time where these things are being made a spectacle of, but then you have a clash of worldviews.

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So in the one worldview, a woman is strong and independent and courageous and capable. And then in the other worldview, we know that she's not.

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Like any of that. She's not. And so then the honorable guy is going to shelter her.

11:05

You're not going to make a sport of her, right? So one of the things you would teach your kids is, yeah, you don't go around telling your mom you can beat her up and how strong you are and how weak she is and everything else.

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You don't tell her that it doesn't hurt when she gives you a spanking. You just pretend. Because if you do that, then dad's going to make it hurt.

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That's the way it's going to work. So you have two different worldviews and what you have is you have people who are applying the standards of the old worldview onto the new situation.

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But the problem is in the new situation, this is just a catastrophic joke, man. The issue is what you don't want to have happen is you don't want the joke to happen.

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So the way to fix the problem is for everyone to say, hey, yeah, look, this is a joke.

12:00

Let's stop doing this so that we can save these people from embarrassment, right? And probably actually get the job done, too.

12:11

Right, actually get the job done, which is more important. Yeah. So in the minds of many people, I mean, it'd be better for Trump to get shot.

12:18

And then we still have, I mean, not just the people who hate him.

12:24

I just mean the kind of people you're talking about who are like, hey, we need to tone this down because stop laughing at the clumsy female secret service agents and things like that, because that isn't very dignified to women and all that stuff.

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You're putting them in a role they're not designed to do. And there are real world consequences to this.

12:49

So Trump almost got shot in part, whether or not,

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I mean, there probably is a conspiracy behind all of it, too. But he almost got shot due to this spectacle of these female secret service agents.

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I saw something online about like a lady was explaining why, like the roof that the sniper got onto, she was explaining why they didn't like this female

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CIA lady or whatever. She was explaining why they didn't put troops on top of the roof or snipers on top of the roof.

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And the explanation was because it was a safety hazard. It was dangerous.

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They could slip and fall because it was a steep roof, you know, kind of thing. And so. Turned out to be an incredible safety hazard.

13:41

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, this is what happens when you put women in roles they're not designed to do.

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They're not able to make the kind of calls that they need to make. And I mean, that's all, you know, assuming that everything is above board and it was just incompetence that produced the situation in the way that it did.

13:57

I mean, it's difficult to know what to make of all that, because you can look at video after video of just regular civilians there pointing to cops and pointing to secret service agents saying there's a guy on the roof.

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And then you have, I mean, there's like 10 different videos of people recording this guy on the roof, you know, and getting on the roof or something like that.

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It's like this is like either this is just massive incompetence due to the diversity, equity, inclusion kind of stuff, or it's more malicious than that.

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And there is probably a combination of both. But yeah. So, yeah, you're basically just in a situation where you have an old worldview clashing with the worldview we're at right now.

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And it's difficult to know how to navigate those waters because the natural impulse to protect women from scorn is a good one.

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But when they're doing things that are deeply shameful and it's demanded that everyone praise those things, then the rules seem to change a little bit.

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Essentially, I think it's probably three, maybe four women secret service agents.

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So someone might bring up the argument that, hey, look, there's people who do their jobs poorly in every industry, in every field.

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You're going to have people who do their job poorly, men and women alike, whatever the field is.

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There's just going to be people who do it better than others. There's going to be people who respond to certain situations better than others will.

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So they might make the argument, hey, look, you're building this whole perspective on women, essentially saying they can't do these certain service roles like the secret service, physically protecting a president from harm.

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You're looking at three or four women and their failures in an incredibly fast -paced situation.

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It starts and it's over in just a few seconds or at least a few minutes by the time they get them to the car.

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You're making all of these judgments about all of women now based off of these three or four women's reactions in that short span of time.

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Don't you feel like that's a little unfair? Don't you feel like it's possible that a man could have performed just as poorly in the same situation?

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If you put the right kind of guy in there who's just not built to handle that sort of high -stress situation, don't you think we're making a lot of assumptions based off of three or four women and their responses?

17:02

Aaron Powell Yeah. So this is where the ability to generalize is a very helpful thing.

17:09

So this is where we have to relearn as a society how to interact with statements of general truth and what wisdom actually is.

17:17

So wisdom is the ability to see the world the way it is. So when you see the world the way it is, it's very obvious that God has made men taller than women on average.

17:27

I think we did a poll at some point where I was asking people to identify whether or not they were married to someone who was in a relationship where the man was taller than the woman.

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And I think over a thousand people responded to that. And it was like 1 % said that they were in the opposite arrangement.

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So just think about the way the world works. God's obviously made men stronger than women.

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Men have two and a half times the upper body strength than women. And you just see the way the world works.

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The sexes are not equal physically. It's just the way it is, man. So there's a famous story about Serena Williams and Venus Williams bragging about how they could beat a guy in the top 200 or something like that in tennis.

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And the thing actually happened. There was a guy who was 196 or something like that. And he was washed up.

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He was old. He had a sprained ankle. He was hungover. I think he beat

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Serena six games to one. He beat Venus six games to two.

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So this is a guy who was at the end of his career, old, washed up. This is the way the world works, man.

18:51

Not even top 10 versus arguably the greatest women tennis players of all time.

19:00

Yeah, I mean, there was a boxing video I watched of the greatest female boxer ever, the female

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Mike Tyson or whatever, who just dominated women. And they put her up against this amateur

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Asian boxer guy, right? Who no one knows. No one will ever know because he was such an amateur boxer or whatever.

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And he knocked her out, man. I saw a recent MMA fight of this.

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It was in one of those European countries. But I saw a recent MMA fight where there was,

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I think it was two women, female. One of them was an MMA fighter or whatever.

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And then the other one I don't think was. But it was two of them versus this old man.

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He was an old dude, out of shape, comedian. He just made internet videos.

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That was what he did. He has no fighting training whatsoever. And I mean, he just manhandled them, man.

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I don't know if you know this, but Vanderbilt, their football team had brought on,

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I can't remember why they did this. I think it had to do with their starting kicker was sick or maybe he got injured.

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And then the guy who was his backup was also unable to play for some reason.

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And so they brought in one of the soccer players. They trained her for a few weeks on how to kick field goals.

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And they're saying she was doing well in practice. And they thought she was going to be, they're basically saying like, hey, she's going to be as good as our regular kickers are.

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And then she comes out there and she totally blows it. They're terrible.

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And she's not even playing the contact side of the sport.

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Granted, kicking a field goal is not like a low pressure situation. I grant that.

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But there's no tackling involved. There's nothing like that. And she bombed completely.

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Terrible. It was bad. Everyone made fun of her because it was so bad. So you think about the world that you're living in, like as a general rule, men are just terrifyingly strong compared to women.

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And then the issue is in a civilized society, you're going to shelter people from this knowledge.

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You don't want to make a spectacle of it. I mean, it's just gruesome. It's like an adult fighting a kid.

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It's really that bad. I mean, I think you take someone like Mike Tyson in his prime and you put him up against four or five women at the same time and they would all probably die.

21:48

No, I mean, it would literally probably be a situation where he might accidentally kill someone.

21:56

Yeah, I mean, it's just that. I mean, there is the UFC. Maybe not UFC, but with all this trying to let quote unquote transgender men compete against women,

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I'm pretty sure there is a UFC fight or some sort of MMA fight. Maybe it wasn't

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UFC. Maybe it was one of the smaller leagues. But they have a dude fight a girl.

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And I mean, he destroyed her, let her face look unrecognizable.

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And people were just acting like, oh, yeah, this is wow. So brave. Two women fighting each other.

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You know, it's like this is terrible. We just let a dude beat up a girl. I mean, it's really that bad.

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So, I mean, you're in it when you think about the way the world actually works. The average guy is significantly stronger than the average girl.

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And so but then, you know, just think about like the way the world works and think about how much stronger the average male is than the average women.

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And they just have no shot like they have no prayer, you know, again. And so like what you don't want to do in this kind of environment then is you don't want to compare like the weakest man to the strongest woman.

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What you want to do is you want to talk about like the how does the world generally work, right?

23:32

Yeah, you want? Yeah. But then that's why when you have women as female police officers and the moment any guy puts up a fight, even an old guy, you're out of shape old guy.

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It's they can't do anything. You know, that's why you have videos online of, you know, these

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European cop ladies, like three of them surrounding one guy and he's not having it. You have to have the guy come down from the apartment to help out, you know, because this is the this is like there's they just aren't equipped for the job.

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So this entirely matters when you're talking about a job that centers on physical strength and protection and courage, right?

24:39

So when you have a job that requires physical strength and courage, like what you want to make rules on the basis of that.

24:46

Now, that's just looking at it like from reality. But I mean, when you think about the way the

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Bible works, God is very honest about this. I mean, over and over again, as you read through the law, you're going to find that without fail, there is no such thing as a female warrior in the

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Bible. There's no Mulan, right? There's no Alita battle angel. There's nothing like that. It's the men who are going out to war repeatedly as I mean, there's no concept of a female fighter because they weren't insane.

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They weren't stupid. They weren't like morons like they understand the way the world works.

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And a female fighter is a liability. Like what's going to happen is you're going to have a lady who's just pretending and all the guys around are trying to compensate for them for the lady.

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I mean, just playing sports, you understand this in a way that people who've never done sports, they can't really understand.

25:39

I mean, when you go play streetball at the park or whatever, and then all of a sudden the girl wants to play, every guy in there knows that something has changed.

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Something has changed. And what has changed is the fact that whoever has the unfortunate role of guarding this girl, they're going to have to pretend like they're not trying.

26:00

They basically have to not try, but then they have to not try to the point where they don't just let her score because if they let her score, then they're going to get really made fun of.

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So you have to barely try, but not try enough to look like you're trying. But then you can't really score on her because they're going to make fun of you for scoring on her.

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So basically the game for you if you have the unfortunate privilege of having to guard this girl or be guarded by this girl is you basically just like you're not competing anymore.

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You're just taking up space and trying to make it fair for her the whole time. This is the way the world works.

26:37

But the Bible says this over and over again. There's no female warriors in the Bible. People will mention JL as if she was just this remarkable example of courage for the tent peg and all that and what strength driving that tent peg through his sleeping head.

26:55

Think about it. Think about what you're saying. If a man were to sneak up on another man and kill him in his sleep, he would be reviled as a coward because the manly thing to do is to face him in battle.

27:09

The manly thing isn't to kill him in his sleep. What a spineless coward would do that.

27:15

But then for a woman that's like, man, she was really courageous because he could have woken up. And if he would have woken up, she would have been in trouble.

27:24

But what you've done is you've just completely destroyed all reasonable definitions of courage and strength at that point.

27:33

All the men that go out for war repeatedly in the Bible, it's always men of war, men going out to war, counting the men who are going out for war.

27:42

There's no female going out to war because they're not made for it, man. They're not made for it. Maybe if you put a lady on a bunch of testosterone and you have a bunch of guys who have record low levels of testosterone and then you let the woman train their whole life and the guys are the only training they're doing their whole life are training for video games or something like that, then maybe it can go a little bit different.

28:07

But in the real world, what happens is you have all these jokes that are happening. It was really funny when

28:15

Trump went for the convention or whatever, you see the Secret Service guys who were surrounding him for that one after the assassination attempt.

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And they were all like huge, tall, strong, the kind of Secret Service men he should have had the first time.

28:29

And Trump's like, I'm not messing around with this Jersey stuff anymore. Give me some people who actually know what they're doing.

28:36

But yeah, thinking about the way the world works, this isn't just pointing to bad examples as a way of trying to prove a point or something like that.

28:47

This is the rules, man. I mean, think about how low the standards for a

28:53

Secret Service person actually has to be to have a woman who doesn't know how to holster a gun or take her out.

28:59

At least be able to holster it in a high stress situation. I get it's a high stress situation, but that's your whole job is to be able to operate in a high stress situation.

29:12

Right, and it just goes to show that diversity, equity, inclusion is taking over the standards at this point, for sure.

29:21

So, one question I do have is you mentioned that there are no female warriors in the Bible, and I'm sure that some people probably might ask you about Debra, for example, from Judges.

29:35

So, what's your response to that? The mother of Israel.

29:44

Yeah, I mean, so part of what's happening… Wasn't she a warrior? She's not a warrior. This is what's so funny about any people, anyone appealing to Judges.

29:58

I mean, it's kind of funny. The whole point of Judges, over and over again, the repeated refrain of Judges is there's no king in Israel.

30:05

Everyone does what's right in their own eyes. Everything is upside down in the book of Judges. So, you have all the left -handed

30:11

Benjaminites, and if people know what Benjamin means, it means son of the right hand, basically.

30:19

Everything in Judges is backwards, right? So, you have Gideon being called a mighty man of valor, but then

30:27

Gideon won't even trust the word of the angel.

30:32

He's asking for a fleece over and over again because he is so filled with courage.

30:38

So, I mean, the book itself is filled with ironies, right? Think about Samson.

30:44

Samson is a Nazirite from birth, but then the whole time he violates every principle of the

30:51

Nazirite vow. So, the whole point of the book of Judges is that God is faithful to His promise of the

30:57

Abrahamic covenant. He's faithful to deliver His people, but then His people, like there's no king in Israel, everyone's doing what's right in their own eyes.

31:06

Like God is appointing unusual means of deliverance for His people repeatedly, but none of it's a good example.

31:13

I mean, you think about the story about how the guy cuts his prostitute up into 12 parts or whatever and sends them to the 12 tribes of Israel.

31:22

None of it's good. You think about everything that happens there, but yeah, when you get to the story about Deborah and Beric, I mean, it's pretty funny.

31:36

So, Deborah's name means honeybee and Beric's name means lightning, right?

31:43

So, you have lightning, right, who refuses to go to battle unless honeybee will come with him, right?

31:53

And then she rebukes him for it. She says, all right, well, fine. Well, the glory, I will go with you to battle, right?

31:59

Like if you're not able to go without me being your security blanket because you're too much of a coward to go, but nevertheless, the glory will not go to you.

32:06

It'll go to a woman, right? And so then that's where JL gets the glory from putting the tent peg through Cicero's head or whatever.

32:16

But the whole point of that was that you have this cowardly man who refused to go to war without the mother of Israel honeybee coming with him, right?

32:26

And then the glory doesn't go to him at all. It goes to the woman with the tent peg. So, God raises up deliverers, but not the way that you would expect in that narrative.

32:39

But none of that's meant to be prescriptive. And Deborah certainly didn't have a sword and she didn't actually go out to battle at that point.

32:47

At that point, she's pretty old and useless as far as that's concerned. So, she's just a figurehead. Do you think that men who encourage either their wives or their daughters or I guess maybe even their mothers to take on jobs like police officers, secret service,

33:10

FBI, obviously military in there as well. Do you think that there's a problem if they don't feel deep and inherent shame over encouraging a woman to do that kind of stuff in a man's place?

33:29

Yeah, definitely. I think it's just a sign of judgment on a society. I mean, it's kind of funny.

33:35

I think in general, women are made to respond to men taking on their roles.

33:43

I've heard story after story after story where the feminist woman tries to pay for the meal and then the guy is like, hey, you're embarrassing me by trying to pay for this meal.

33:52

Just let me pay for it. Let me be the man. And she just naturally falls into the role of, oh yeah, fine, pay for it.

34:02

I've seen some videos where the woman's like, look, I'm a feminist, but after he started paying for my meals, it was like,

34:12

I just wanted to do all his laundry. I know he can do his laundry, but I want to do it for him.

34:21

So that's what I mean. I mean, it's just that kind of thing, but I think there's something deeply, deeply shameful about a man looking to a woman for protection.

34:35

And I mean, it's just embarrassing. I've seen plenty of examples of things the other way, where the cowardly guy.

34:42

There was one I saw last week where the woman and her two children.

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So they weren't actually her children. They were the guy's relative's children or whatever.

34:57

So she's dating the guy and his sister's children or whatever, they're really small.

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One was an infant. One was like two or something like that. They're being attacked by this dog. And so the woman tries to fend off the dog attack and ask the guy whose relatives these children are to go in the house to get the pepper spray or whatever, to get the dog away.

35:26

And instead of doing that, he ran the opposite way and got out of there and shut the fence behind them or whatever to lock them all in there.

35:35

But at that point, she was like, so basically like fault number one is that she's telling him to go instead of fight the dog.

35:43

Right. And he's actually listening. But then fault number two, he didn't actually do what she said. And she just lost all respect for him at that point.

35:52

Rightfully so. I think the idea that a woman would protect a man, it's like being protected by your child or something.

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It should be viewed that way. It is just a deep shame to men and deep kind of embarrassment to men.

36:06

And the fact that so many are willing to do that at this point shows maybe how little testosterone they actually have and how much they've been brainwashed by TV to the point where they don't even know what it means to be a man anymore.

36:21

But in the real world, part of what actually happens in these military situations is you put a woman in there and all the men soldiers are doing stupid things trying to protect the woman.

36:32

Right. So they're getting themselves in compromised situations because they're all trying to compensate for the weak link there.

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But men are made to protect men. And when you look to a woman to be your protector, you've lost your man card.

36:52

There's no man card left at that point. You might as well be a woman. You're worse than a woman. All right.

37:01

Well, I think that's a good place for us to wrap up the conversation on. So thank you, Tim, for answering all my questions there and talking about all of this drama that apparently has risen up around men who have made the incredibly bold statement of saying men should be the ones protecting, not women.

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I know that is just utterly profound and just totally unthinkable in our society.

37:29

So I appreciate you laying out why that's such an unpopular opinion, but then why it's also biblical that we think that way.

37:57

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38:47

So we certainly appreciate all that. And until the next episode, we'll see you. Transcribed by https://otter .ai

39:52

Transcribed by https://otter .ai