The Danielic Imperative (26)

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The anathema of God was for those who denied justification by faith alone. When that is at stake, we need to be on the battlefield exposing the air and combating the air.

We are unabashedly, unashamedly Clarkian. And so the next few statements that I'm going to make, I'm probably going to step on all of the Vantillian toes at the same time. And this is what we do at Simple Riff around the radio, you know.

We are polemical and polarizing Jesus style.

I would first say that to characterize what we do as fashion is itself fashion. It's not hate. It's history. It's not fashion. It's the Bible.

Jesus said, Woe to you when men speak well of you. For their fathers used to treat the false prophets in the same way. As opposed to blessed are you when you have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness.

It is on. We're taking the gloves off. It's time to battle.

This is Timothy F. Kaufman, your host of the Danielic Imperative, a podcast in which we understand the eschatology of the people of God in the light of the timeline he revealed to us through his prophet Daniel.

Jesus and his apostles expounded upon the future and explicitly and implicitly Danielic terms. And unless Christians are familiar with the Danielic timeline, the revelations of Jesus and his apostles will remain clouded in mystery.

It is therefore imperative that Christians be familiar with the Danielic timeline, which is the focus of this podcast and the series of episodes we have produced thus far. This is episode 26. Today we will focus on a listener's questions about the 13 horns of Daniel 7.

And yes, I'm using that number deliberately, since Daniel does in fact refer to 13 horns in that chapter. When you read the whole chapter in the light of Jesus' revelation to John, you can see that Daniel knew of and in fact had seen 13 horns, since the fourth beast had 10 horns plus another three that had already been removed.

A listener asked that I spend a little more time justifying that assertion since it is unique in the history of Danielic interpretation. So that's what we'll focus on today. A listener's question about the 13 horns of Daniel 7.

Let's start by reading Daniel 7 verses 1 to 8, and then we'll turn to the listener's question. The first was like a lion and had eagle's wings. I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made to stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised itself up on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it. And they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

After this I beheld, and lo, another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly, and it had great iron teeth.

It devoured and break in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it. And it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and behold there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots.

And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things. As our listeners know, I claim that there were initially thirteen horns on the fourth beast, and that Daniel is only describing the fourth beast after three horns had already been removed.

A listener objected to that assessment, so let's get to the listener's question. It came from Stephan in response to episode one, and the question is as follows. Hi there, our church is preaching through Daniel at the moment, and I was given your podcast as reference material.

I'm a little confused by Tim's assertions. The ten horns are not the full complement, and the three kings didn't come from the ten. Because as I read it, I'm not 100 clear that this is warranted by the passage.

Since it seems to be foundational for Tim's articles on his blog, this episode, and also subsequent episodes, I was wondering whether you could ask if Tim could do a separate episode and address what average intellects like myself see when they read the passage.

As well, I guess, as most of church history, if that is the most common interpretation, and why that is not the correct interpretation. I've read both of his blog posts referred to in the episode website, and both in those articles and in the podcast, he doesn't really go very deep into the logic or hermeneutical approach.

Since it's foundational, and since I'm confused, and if Tim has stumbled onto something that is revolutionary, it would be good to have it addressed with rigor and clarity. I realize this was a few years ago, but it would be really helpful to me and probably to many, many others if Tim's interpretation is correct.

Can I suggest Tim could review popular commentators and show the logical mistakes they are making in limiting the horns to ten, and in having the three come out of the ten? Thanks in Christ, Stefan. Okay, fair enough.

By Stefan's reading, the fourth beast must have had ten horns to start with, and my assertion that it started with 13 not only runs contrary to what appears to be the plain reading of the text, but also happens to go against almost every commentary ever written about Daniel 7 in the history of the entire world.

So, yes, it's a fair question, and it will take some time to answer. We covered some of this in our first episode, the introductory inaugural episode for the entire Danielic Imperative series, but we'll do a refresher course here, and we'll even expand on it considerably.

Daniel says of the fourth beast, it had ten horns. That's Daniel 7 .7. That is exactly what the text says. It is properly translated, and what Daniel says is true. The fourth beast had ten horns. I totally agree with that.

Then Daniel says he was watching, and there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots. That's Daniel 7 .8. Can we not simply assume that there were ten horns on the fourth beast to start with?

That is, the first horns were numerically ten, and that the little horn took three of those ten. No, we absolutely cannot assume that, for the same reason we cannot say of the third beast, the leopard, that it started with four heads.

The text simply does not say that. And we know very well from Daniel 8 and Daniel 11 that the third beast actually must have started with one head, which was later replaced by four more. We have to take the whole counsel of Scripture into account.

Reading that the fourth beast had ten horns without harmonizing it with the rest of Scripture is precisely why the bulk of patristic literature and all the following commentaries appear to miss the rise of Antichrist when it happened in the end of the fourth century.

Because of their invalid assumption, namely, that the first horns were ten in number and that the little horn took three of those ten, the early writers and following commentaries were looking for a ten-way division of the Roman Empire as the herald of Antichrist, when instead, had they understood what Daniel was saying, they would have been looking for a thirteen-way division and noticed the rise of Antichrist when it happened.

It is a bold statement, I agree, but the text will bear that out. There are four main points we need to address to get to that conclusion. First, Daniel never wrote that the little horn plucked up three of the ten horns, even though the commentaries often assume that he did.

That's an important fact that has to be addressed, and we'll see why that matters today. Second, in Daniel chapter 7, he only describes the final configuration of each empire in succession, providing only hints of what happened leading up to that final configuration.

That actually has a huge impact on how we interpret the passage. Third, when these first two points are taken into account, we can show from the scriptures that the little horn had removed three horns before he came into Daniel's view, and then came up among the remaining ten horns, and then took over as the successor to the Roman Empire.

An examination of Daniel 2 and 7, and Revelation 13, 17, and 19, will confirm this to be true. Fourth, and finally, and this is really important, the Aramaic language in which Daniel chapters 2 through 7 were written does not have a past perfect tense, which is why the translators have missed this critical point.

In Aramaic, past perfect is determined solely by context, and if the context is overlooked or ignored, as the commentaries and translators have done, we miss the plain past perfect tense of Daniel's description of the removal of the three horns.

Instead of, before whom three were removed, in the past progressive tense, we should have read it as, before whom three had been removed, in the past perfect tense. We'll explain that more when we get to the fourth point today.

Once we examine these in the light of scripture, we'll not only find the original 13 horns by logical deduction from scripture, but we'll also see from the historical record which ones were uprooted, and find indeed that the little horn uprooted them from the Roman Empire while the Roman Empire was still in existence, but before the little horn took over as its successor, confirming what we would have suspected from Daniel 7 to begin with, namely, that after the little horn had removed three, but just before he took over, the final configuration of the divided Roman Empire was a ten-way division.

And then, because the little horn had taken the place of three, he was more stout than the others, as Daniel notices in 7 .20. So, let's get to work.

Daniel Did Not Say the Little Horn Removed Three of the Ten

Point one.

Daniel did not write that the little horn uprooted three of the ten. Typical commentaries assume that the little horn plucked up three of the ten horns, but, and this may come as a surprise, Daniel never actually says that.

By way of example, here are some typical commentaries from history. Hippolytus, writing in the third century, interpreted Daniel 7 to mean that Antichrist subdued three of the ten horns. In his treatise on Christ and Antichrist, chapter 52, he wrote,.

Jerome, writing in the following century, followed Hippolytus on this and had the little horn subduing three of the ten. In his commentary on Daniel, he wrote,. There shall be ten kings who will partition the Roman world amongst themselves.

Then an insignificant eleventh king will arise who will overcome three of the ten kings. John Calvin agreed with him, at least on this, concluding that whatever was thus added to the little horn was taken from the ten horns, as from Calvin's commentary on Daniel, the thirty-fourth lecture.

These three, Hippolytus, Jerome, and Calvin, are just a few of many such examples. There are many more, and by and large everyone agrees. But Daniel never actually says what they think he said. Here's what Daniel actually said, starting with the last few words of Daniel 7 -7 and continuing with Daniel 7 -8.

Now, as the vision goes on, Daniel says he was curious about the fourth beast and he wanted to know the truth of the ten horns that were in his head and of the other which came up and before whom three fell.

That's Daniel 7 -20. The angel responds and says,. The ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise, and another shall rise after them, and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Daniel 7 -24. That's all we've got in this chapter about the ten kings and about the three that are removed. But it is worth noticing that neither Daniel nor the angel ever say explicitly what all the commentaries assume, namely, that the initial fragmentation of the fourth empire, the first horns, is a ten-way division and that the little horn removes three of those ten.

Daniel does not say the first horns were ten in number, nor does he say the little horn plucked up three of the ten or even three of the first ten. And yet all the commentaries assume exactly that. They comment on the text as if Daniel had said in Daniel 7 -7,.

And at first it had ten horns. And they comment on Daniel 7 -8 as if he said, There came up among them another little horn, before whom were three of the first ten horns plucked up by the roots. And they comment on Daniel 7 -20 as if he said, And of the first ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three of the first ten fell.

And they comment on Daniel 7 -24 as if the angel said, And the first ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise, and another shall arise after them. And he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three of the ten kings.

I emphasize this not to malign the commentaries or the commentators or to ridicule the authors. They were all trying to make sense of God's revelation to us. I only raise this to make the obvious point that the commentaries are all commenting on something neither Daniel nor the angelic narrator ever actually said, namely that the first horns were ten in number, the text does not say it, and that the little horn uprooted three of the ten horns.

The text does not say that either. All Daniel says is that the fourth beast had ten horns, and that the little horn plucked up three of the first horns, which is not the same as saying that it started with ten and that the little horn plucked up three of the ten.

To illustrate the significance of the observation, suppose I were to ask how many heads did the third beast have at first? If you answer four, you would have overlooked the point in time when the third beast would have had only one head, which is when Alexander ruled and his kingdom had not yet been divided four ways.

And for the same reason, we cannot simply assume that the ten horns are numerically equivalent to the first horns. Just like we evaluate Daniel 8 .8 and Daniel 8 .22 and Daniel 11 .4 to determine that there must have been a single head on the leopard in Daniel 7 before there were four heads, we have to use the scriptures to determine whether it is appropriate to assume that the initial division of the fourth empire, Daniel 7, was really a ten-way division.

It turns out it could not possibly have been, and that becomes even more obvious in our second point. Daniel only describes the final configuration of each empire in succession. He spends very little time, and in some cases no time at all, discussing the configurations leading up to that.

In this chapter, Daniel is just giving us the sum of the matter, or literally, the head or the chief of the matter, Daniel 7 .1. This is the only vision in which he states that at the outset. He is not giving us an unfolding vision of each empire from beginning to end, but rather his focus is only on what he sees just before each empire is about to transition to the next.

We do not see Nebuchadnezzar before his humiliation, and we do not see the Medo-Persian bear during the dominance of the Medes, and we do not see the Greek empire under Alexander. Daniel largely ignores the earlier stages of each empire, and has instead revealed to us not the initial state of each empire, but rather its final configuration, just as it was on the cusp of transitioning to the next empire.

And, to our point, Daniel has not provided an illustration of the fourth beast as it was initially divided, but rather what it looked like at the end of its dominance, after three horns had already been removed, and the little horn was about to take over.

Let's look at each beast of Daniel 7 to see what I'm talking about. The vision of Daniel 7 takes place in the first year of Belshazzar, king of Babylon, according to Daniel 7 .1, Belshazzar being the last king before the rise of the Medes and the Persians.

The Babylonian beast was like a lion and had eagle's wings. I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

A lot of time has passed since Nebuchadnezzar was first installed as king in 605 BC, and the vision does not even begin until we are at the end of Nebuchadnezzar's humiliation, when the wings are plucked.

The vision is after Nebuchadnezzar's senses are returned to him and is given in the first year of Babylon's last king. That is not the beginning of the Babylonian empire, but the end. The Medo-Persian beast was like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it, and they said thus unto it, Arise, and devour much flesh.

There's a lot to discuss here about the three ribs, but our focus for now is that the bear itself is lifted up on one side. This is obviously the Persian phase of the Medo-Persian empire. According to Daniel 8, there is a two-horned ram representing the Medes and the Persians.

That's Daniel 8 .20. And the two horns were high, but one was higher than the other, and the higher one came up last. That's Daniel 8 .3. We know from Daniel that the Lord took the kingdom from Belshazzar and gave it to the Medes and the Persians, according to Daniel 5 .28.

But the Medes came up first, since it was Darius the Mede who put Daniel in the lion's den, according to Daniel 6. And Cyrus the Persian came up after him. That's Daniel 6 .28. So the Medes were the first, lower horn of the ram, and the Persians were the second, higher horn, and they came up last.

That's from Daniel 8. The bear of Daniel 7 is also the Medo-Persian empire. The bear in the lower state would answer to the lower horn on the ram, which is the Medes. And according to Daniel 7 .5, the bear was raised up on one side, which answers to the higher horn of the Persians, indicating that we are seeing the latter, higher, Persian stage of the empire.

The bear in Daniel 7, therefore, does not represent the beginning of the Medo-Persian empire, but rather represents its end. The third beast, the Greek beast of Daniel 7, was like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl.

The beast also had four heads. That's Daniel 7 .6. We understand that the kingdom following the Medo-Persian empire is the Greek empire. And according to Daniel 8 .21, the notable horn between the eyes of the he-goat is the first king, which, as we noted, is Alexander the Great.

That horn is broken and replaced with four other horns, referring to the four kingdoms that replaced Alexander after he died. Lysimachus to the north, Ptolemaeus to the south, Seleucus to the east, and Demetrius to the west, as we covered in a previous episode.

But the leopard of Daniel 7 does not mention or consider Alexander at all. He is already dead, and his kingdom has already been divided four ways, and the four successor dynasties, the Diadochi, are already ruling.

The leopard does not depict the beginning of the Greek empire, but the end. And that gets us to the fourth beast. Not only has the fourth beast already risen and subdued the Greek empire, but by the time Daniel describes it to us, it is so far along that it has already been divided into fragments, from which the fifth empire will soon rise.

This period answers to the period of defeat in Daniel 2, which, as we know, is the latter period of the fourth empire. But not only is it the latter period of the fourth empire, it is the latter period of the latter period of the fourth empire, since the fourth empire is already fragmented, and the apparent successor is already coming into view, as Daniel watches.

And what we will find upon further analysis, is that by the time Daniel starts describing the fourth beast, the little horn must have already removed three horns, which is why only ten remained in view when Daniel said it had ten horns, and watched the little horn rising.

The scriptures will in fact confirm that this is true. And that brings us to our third point. Point three. The little horn uprooted three of the thirteen, while Rome was still an empire, leaving only ten in place by the time Daniel started to describe the fourth beast in its final configuration.

It is important to notice here that when the little horn begins to rise, the fourth beast is still in power. The little horn is just one political entity among the fragments of the fourth empire. The little horn is not yet a global power, but is simply growing from the native soil of Rome, as the other horns are.

It has not yet risen to its status as the fifth empire. We know this because the fourth beast's reign does not end until after the little horn has come on the scene. As Daniel says in 711, I beheld then, because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake, I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed and given to the burning flame.

Here in Daniel 711, the beast is the fourth beast of Daniel 7, or the Roman Empire, and we notice that the little horn begins to speak arrogantly before his predecessor is destroyed. There is therefore a period after the rise of the little horn, but before the death of the fourth beast, when the little horn is simply arrogant and presumptuous, but has not yet entered into his period of dominance.

He has not yet risen to his role as a world power. This is confirmed by what we read of the beast in Revelation 17, which is the same entity as the little horn of Daniel 7. John shows us in Revelation that after it rises, but before it takes over as the next empire, the little horn becomes, for a short while, equal in power with the other fragments, which receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

That's Revelation 17, 12. This is the fragmented Roman Empire, and the little horn is just one political entity in the divided empire, but it has not yet taken over. And then the other fragments, according to John, have one mind and give their power and strength unto the beast.

That's Revelation 17, 13. It is at that point in which the little horn of Daniel 7, the beast of Revelation 13, rises to a global power on the world stage as the successor to the Roman Empire. Reading Daniel 7 in that light, the appearance of the little horn occurs during the final days of the Roman Empire, but Daniel does not address the dominion of the little horn, his ruling over the other horns, his persecution of the saints, until after the fourth beast was slain and his body destroyed and given to the burning flame.

That's Daniel 7, 11. In fact, what we see, rather, is a little horn that is growing into his ultimate role as he transitions from little, in comparison to the other horns in Daniel 7, 8, and then becomes equal in power to the other horns, Revelation 17, 12, and then becomes more stout than his fellows, Daniel 7, 20, and then the other horns hand over their power and authority to him.

That's Revelation 17, 13. What we are seeing is the little horn increasing in size, strength, and influence until he finally comes into his dominion and exercises his satanic power and authority over the world.

Now, at some point, that little horn is responsible for removing three of the first horns. That's what Daniel says. When did the little horn remove them? That's the central question, and it is absolutely critical.

Fortunately, we have all we need to know from the Scriptures to determine when those three horns were removed, because we have a description of every significant thing that happens to the little horn from the moment Daniel notices him in Daniel 7 until he is finally destroyed by Jesus Christ and by the breath of his mouth.

And we have a record of how many horns were with him the whole time. An examination of Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 and Revelation 13, 17, and 19 will show that the little horn must have removed those three horns very early in the vision, but before taking over as the fifth empire.

In fact, the Scriptures will show that those three horns were removed chronologically prior to Daniel's observation that the fourth beast had ten horns. This is true for one very simple reason. At no point from Daniel 7 all the way to the final destruction of the beast and his cohorts is the total number of horns reduced from ten to seven.

From the moment Daniel describes the fourth beast until the moment Jesus cast the beast of Revelation 13 into the lake of fire, there are always and only ten horns with him. And if the little horn did not remove the three horns after Daniel 7, 8, then he must have removed them before.

It is really that simple. Let's assume for the sake of argument that there were only ever a maximum of ten horns on that fourth beast, and Daniel only saw ten horns. So the little horn removes three of the ten, leaving seven horns.

That's pretty simple, and nobody can argue with the math. There ought to be only seven horns left. Now, let's see if we can determine the exact moment in time that the number of horns is reduced from ten to seven.

We'll be looking at the whole time span of the little horn's existence from the moment Daniel sees him come into view in Daniel 7, 8, until he is finally destroyed by the Lamb and cast into the lake of fire in Revelation 19, 20.

So, here's the timeline according to the Scriptures in eight phases. The first phase is when the little horn comes into view among the other horns. That's Daniel 7, verses 7 to 8. The second phase is when the little horn shares power with the other horns.

That's Revelation 17, 12. The third phase is the phase of total power, which is assigned to the little horn as the other horns give their power to him. That's Revelation 17, verses 13 and 17. And Satan gives his power, seat, and authority to him.

That's Revelation 13, 2. The fourth phase is when the little horn engages in war against the saints and rules over them. That's Revelation 13, 7, and does so for 42 months, according to Revelation 13, 5, or until a time times and dividing of time, according to Daniel 7, 25, and the other horns hate the harlot of Revelation 17 and burn her with fire.

That's Revelation 17, 16. The fifth phase is when the little horn gathers the other horns for war against the Lamb. That's Revelation 16, verses 13 to 14, and Revelation 19, 19. The sixth phase is when the little horn and the other horns wage war against the Lamb.

That's Revelation 17, 14, and Revelation 19, 19. The seventh phase is the destruction of the little horn as he's cast into the lake of fire. That's depicted for us in Revelation 19, 20, and Daniel 7, 26, when his dominion is taken away.

And then the final destruction of the other horns is the eighth phase. That's Revelation 19, 21, when the other horns are slain by the Lamb of God. Okay, so that's a summary of the whole lifespan of the little horn and the other horns with him in eight phases, from the moment Daniel first notices him in the vision until their final destruction.

Now, at some point, he must remove three of those horns, right? Well, let's find out when he does so and find out when he ends up with only seven horns in his entourage. He can't be in the first phase when he first comes into view among the other ten horns in Daniel 7, 8 because in the next phase, the period of shared power, John records for us that there are still ten horns.

The ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings which receive power as kings one hour with the beast. That's Revelation 17, 12. So, obviously, he can't remove three horns in the first phase. And he can't remove three horns during the second phase because in the next phase, phase three, the period of total power, John tells us that the ten horns have one mind and shall give their power and strength to the beast.

That's Revelation 17, 13. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall agree and give their kingdom unto the beast and hate the harlot of Revelation 17. And as we saw in Revelation 13, 2, during his period of total power, ten horns on the beast still have ten crowns on them.

Now, he certainly can't remove three horns during the period of total power because after he persecutes the saints for 42 months or for times and a half and the ten horns with ten crowns hate the harlot, he still has to gather the kings for war in phase five.

And Revelation 17 says plainly that in phase six, the beast had gathered the ten horns who shall make war with the lamb and the lamb shall overcome them. And then the little horn is cast into the lake of fire in phase seven and then the other horns are slain by the lamb in phase eight.

And of course, the little horn can't remove three of the ten horns after he has already been cast into the lake of fire and the Lord has already overcome the rest. Now, at what point in that timeline, in those eight phases of the little horn's life, did the little horn remove three of the horns?

All the commentaries agree that the little horn of Daniel utterly removed three horns. The commentaries say destroyed, slayed, removed, rooted out, swept away, and cut out. Calvin says taken away. E .B. Eliot says eradicated.

And Luther says knocked off. Those are just some examples, but there's no fuzz on it. Those three horns are utterly removed from the picture. If the fourth beast started with ten horns and the little horn utterly removed three of the ten, then at some point, the little horn ought to share power with only seven horns in his entourage after he arises in Daniel 7.

Or, only seven horns should give their authority to him in Revelation 17. Or he should reign for 42 months in Revelation 13 with only seven horns on his head and only seven crowns on those horns. And only seven horns should hate the harlot of Revelation 17.

Or only seven should gather with him when he assembles them for war against the lamb. And only seven horns should be overcome by the lamb after he casts the little horn into the lake of fire. So when was the number of horns reduced from ten to seven?

Well, that's a bit of a problem, isn't it? It never happens. In Revelation, John says those ten horns share their power with the beast. Those ten horns give their power to the beast. Those ten horns hate the harlot.

And when the beast assembles them, he assembles ten horns and those ten horns make war against the lamb. And then the beast is destroyed and the kings of the earth are slain and then that's the end of the story.

The total number of horns never gets reduced to seven. Even until the very end, the final count is ten, not seven. Now, at the risk of being tedious, we arrive at the same conclusion when we look at the statue of Daniel 2.

To understand why this is the case, we'll need to look at the two judgments that occur in each chapter. Note that in Daniel 2 and Daniel 7, both chapters indicate a first judgment against the fourth empire.

Daniel 2 .34 says, Thou sawest till a stone was cut without hands, which smote the image upon the feet that were of iron and clay, and break them to pieces. And then Daniel 7 .11 says, I beheld till the beast, that is the fourth beast, was slain and his body destroyed and given to the burning flame.