February 22, 2017 Show with Greg Nichols on “The Importance of Systematic Theology (God, Creation, & Salvation)

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February 23, 2017

Dr. Greg Nichols, 1 of 3 Pastors at Grace Immanuel Reformed Baptist Church, Grand Rapids, MI, author of What Does the Bible Say about God?, The Biblical Doctrine of God (Truth For Eternity) & Lectures in Systematic Theology (Volume 1), will address: “The Importance of SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY (God, Creation & Salvation)”

00:01: Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown
00:08: Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,
00:16: Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:23: Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
00:32: Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:46: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
00:56: Now here's our host, Chris Arnton. Good afternoon,
01:05: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet
01:11: Earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arnton, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 22nd day of February 2017, and I am here in my studio with co -host the
01:25: Reverend Buzz Taylor. How are you, Buzz? Just fine today. I wonder if our weather is any better or worse than those down in Florida.
01:34: I would not want the weather to be any different than it is today here. Those of you who may be expecting to hear an interview today with Dr.
01:43: Don Kistler on the Puritans will have to wait for another day because Dr. Kistler is under the weather, and very graciously
01:52: Dr. Greg Nichols, an old friend of mine who is the pastor of Grace Emanuel Reformed Baptist Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan, filled in today with very little notice, and we are going to be talking about the importance of systematic theology with a special emphasis on God, creation, and salvation, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron, Dr.
02:15: Greg Nichols. Thank you. Yes, and Dr. Nichols, I know that you are not only the pastor of Grace Emanuel Reformed Baptist Church, but if you could share with our listeners a little bit something about your background, because you had no
02:32: Christian upbringing at all before coming to Christ, am I right? That is true.
02:38: I was raised in a liberal Methodist church where I learned the Lord's Prayer and the 23rd
02:43: Psalm and the Apostles' Creed, but I didn't know the Lord. And what were the circumstances that providentially the
02:52: Lord used to bring you to himself, to a saving knowledge of himself? Yes, he saved me out of a terrible, wicked life of sin of which
03:03: I'm now ashamed, and had mercy on me when I was a college student back in 1971.
03:10: That's a long time ago, and I'm thankful for his mercy and grace to me over the last decades of my life.
03:20: I'm very grateful for his mercy to me. Well, Dr. Nichols is the author of What Does the
03:26: Bible Say About God? The Biblical Doctrine of God, Truth for Eternity, and what we are discussing today,
03:34: Lectures in Systematic Theology, Volume 1. And what led you to write this book?
03:41: Is it filling a void that needs to be filled in your opinion? Yes, I think so.
03:49: I truly hope so. I truly hope it will be a means of blessing and grace to God's people. And let me just say one thing,
03:55: Chris. I have never earned a doctorate, so I appreciate the honorary doctorate you have conveyed upon me today.
04:04: Does that mean I should stop calling myself Dr. Chris Aronson? Yes. Over that,
04:13: Chris, I have no control. But I understand that it's reasonable to assume that those that teach systematic theology have a doctorate.
04:25: That's a reasonable assumption, albeit in my case it's not accurate. I started teaching systematic theology back in 1979.
04:37: Wow. My education is basically, I have a Bachelor of Science in Chemical Engineering, which of course has really actually suited me to do systematic theology, and also then
04:48: I have an MDiv from Reformed Baptist Seminary. That is the extent of my education and degrees.
04:56: As to the question you specifically asked me, my hope is to produce,
05:02: God willing, a systematic theology which will expound the scriptures, and in so doing expound all the doctrinal distinctives of the
05:13: London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. That's something that's been a burden upon my heart for a long, long time, and it's something that I hope, if God spares me,
05:23: I would be able to accomplish over the next several years. The plan is to publish seven volumes over the next several years.
05:33: The first volume, as you mentioned, is The Doctrine of God, which is now available from various publishers, including one
05:41: I think that you're familiar with, which would be Solid Ground Christian Books, but available from Solid Ground and from other publishers as well.
05:49: Yes, and I understand that another individual who I've had on my program,
05:55: Rob Ventura, is the general editor of this series? That is correct. Really, it's a brainchild.
06:04: His urging, and if you've ever been urged by my beloved spiritual grandson,
06:09: Rob Ventura, you know how effective that is. So it's through his urging and his help and his effort and labor that this series of lectures in systematic theology is now being published.
06:24: That is true. He deserves all the credit for it being published, not me. He's really carried the ball with it from day one with this whole project.
06:33: Before we get into the content of the book, though, I think it's a good idea because I know that we have listeners that run the full spectrum of doctrinal beliefs, and there are some groups out there that think that theology is somehow against the freedom in the spirit or whatever.
06:56: It's just useless. It's not... Doctrine divides. Doctrine, yeah, divides and so forth. Could you define systematic theology and tell us about its importance first?
07:07: Okay, that's a very fair question. The question that you are addressing right now is something that I think is a very important question,
07:17: Chris, and it's a question that I actually address in the introduction to the book.
07:23: Because this Systematic Theology Volume 1, Doctrine of God, in the beginning of this book there's approximately 50 pages of introduction to systematic theology itself, and one of the things that I address is the idea that systematic theology itself is sinful, that it's wrong, that it is by nature a distortion of the
07:45: Scripture. And some folks say the very thing that you just suggested. They say that doctrine divides.
07:52: But what the Scripture teaches is that error divides and false doctrine divides.
07:59: But sound doctrine actually unifies God's people. And my hope and my prayer is that a sound and biblical systematic theology would not divide
08:09: God's people, but would actually unify them, bring them closer together. And that's one of the clear teachings of the
08:15: Scripture in Ephesians 4, verses 11 to 16, is the role of truth, sound doctrine, in unifying
08:23: God's people and preserving the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
08:29: One of the things that I hope would be accomplished and benefits to God's people that would come from this work is that it would unify them and bring them closer together by studying the sound doctrines, by studying the truth, by embracing the truth by faith,
08:46: God's people grow closer to each other. That's my prayer. That's my hope that God would accomplish that through this work in some small way.
08:54: And so now to get to what is the concept of systematic theology? Systematic theology is topical teaching.
09:01: It's about topics. It's not just about any topic. It's about the major themes of the
09:07: Bible. And it's topical teaching that presents and applies the comprehensive witness of Scripture to the major themes of Scripture, and hopefully does it biblically in biblical categories and biblical proportions.
09:23: That's what I want to do in systematic theology, Chris. By the way, you attributed the question to me, but actually my co -host,
09:29: Rev. Buzz Taylor, asked the question, and I want to make sure you try to distinguish your voices because he may say something that's colossally stupid later, and I don't want you to think
09:38: I said it. Well, look, I've already made you look good. But you...
09:45: I appreciate that. Thank you. Okay. The main three divisions of your specialized study in this issue are
09:56: Canonics, Ethics, and Didactics, or one of those three, I should say.
10:01: Tell us exactly what those three main categories are, Canonics, Ethics, and Didactics, and explain which one is the issue of your focus.
10:13: Okay. Yes. I get those ideas from, you know, in systematic theology we have to use big words when people think there's something wrong.
10:25: Basically, Canonics is the doctrine of the canon or the doctrine of Scripture itself.
10:30: That's the foundation of the topical teaching on the various Bible themes, is what does the Bible say about the
10:36: Bible? And the second category is what I call Didactics, the sum of the Christian faith.
10:42: What does the Bible say about God and His two major glorious works of creation and salvation?
10:49: And the third category is Ethics, which has to do with right behavior, the sum of Christian duty.
10:56: So my focus over the years in systematic theology has not been to teach the doctrine of Scripture or the doctrine of Christian duty,
11:03: Ethics. My focus has been to teach the sum of the Christian faith. What does the
11:09: Bible say about God and His two great works of creation and salvation?
11:15: God, creation, salvation. That's the focus of Didactics, the sum of the Christian faith, and that has been my stewardship over the years to teach.
11:24: And I'm going to repeat our email address if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for our guest
11:31: Greg Nichols. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.
11:41: And please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the
11:50: USA. I am going to ask a listener question that is not really on our subject, but I figured
11:59: I would ask it anyway because it's not too far afield from areas that you have taught on and such things such as that nature.
12:10: Bruce in Gardner, Massachusetts asks, Why are so many churches who call themselves
12:18: Reformed not following the Christian Sabbath, the Lord's Day? Are they truly
12:23: Reformed if they are not obeying the Ten Commandments? I've heard pastors teaching their flocks that the
12:29: Sabbath is not for the Christian because it was just for Israel. They teach the doctrines of grace.
12:35: They believe in New Testament commandments, but they do not believe that the Christian should follow the Ten Commandments.
12:41: Are they truly Reformed? That's an interesting question, although I think it may be hard to since the word
12:48: Reformed is an extra biblical word. I don't know if you can make a strict definition of it as our guest or I should say our listener is trying to insist, but what is your opinion on what he has said?
13:01: Okay. First of all, let me give a general disclaimer about answering questions.
13:08: This comes from an elder that I had the privilege of serving with for many, many years.
13:13: He's now in heaven. He used to say, I can answer any question you ask, but you have to realize that most of the time my answer will be,
13:26: I don't know. So, that's my disclaimer.
13:33: Questions about the Sabbath are many. I do not address the subject of the
13:39: Sabbath in the doctrine of God. However, I do address the doctrine of the
13:45: Sabbath and the question of the Sabbath and the issue of the Sabbath in the doctrine of man, or the doctrine of the original creation, commonly called the doctrine of man.
13:57: I address it as a creation ordinance and I expound the Sabbath in three ways. I expound it historically,
14:04: I expound it exegetically, and I expound it practically.
14:11: Now, with regard to the historical exposition of the Sabbath, I do expound the doctrine of the
14:17: Reformers on the Sabbath day because the Reformers are, especially John Calvin, are so often misquoted on this subject that it seemed fair and appropriate to me to actually do the research from Calvin's Institutes and from early editions of Calvin's sermons and to actually present the
14:38: Reformed view of the Sabbath day, of the Christian Sabbath, which was taught by Calvin and by Luther and by Melanchthon and by other
14:49: Reformers. Now, therefore, with regard to the Reform view, the
14:56: Reform view is, first, that the Sabbath is a creation ordinance.
15:02: Second, that in the fourth commandment there is something moral that is permanent and abiding and something temporary.
15:15: Thirdly, they teach that the observance of the Lord's day, the
15:21: Christian obligation, which is related to the fourth commandment, and fourthly, they teach what
15:27: I would call the Christian or what Calvin called the spiritual observance of the sacred day, which is not what he called crass,
15:38: Sabbatarian superstition, but which is laying aside the mundane that we may focus upon God and his works and enjoy him.
15:48: That was Calvin's idea of the spiritual observance of sacred day.
15:54: So, those are the categories by which it's appropriate to define the doctrine of the
16:00: Reformers on the Sabbath. I'll leave it to others to decide who or who does not fit into those categories.
16:08: I think that what I just said is historically accurate, and I'm willing to back that up by putting it in print,
16:15: God willing, later this year. Hopefully Rob Ventura hopes to get the second volume, which is the
16:21: Doctrine of the Original Creation, often called the Doctrine of Man. He hopes to have that out by Christmas, and all that information on the
16:28: Sabbath, God willing, will be in that volume, in volume two. That's as much as I could say on the historical with regard to it.
16:37: One of the concerns that I have personally about Reformed people is that we not go to extremes on this issue, that we not, on the one hand, get mired in what
16:49: Calvin called craft, sabbatary, and superstition, and, on the other hand, that we don't throw over the beauty of the
16:57: Christian Sabbath, the observance of the entire Lord's Day unto the
17:03: Lord as a day of rest and worship, and that we don't lose sight of the value of that sacred day.
17:14: So my concern is that we are balanced in this matter, that we don't become preoccupied with do's and don'ts, and man -made rules, and judging people, but that we always remain occupied with the
17:26: Lord, and delighting in Him, and in His blessed works, and that that would be the focus of our observance of the sacred day in a spiritual manner, as the
17:37: Reformers taught. Well, thank you, Bruce, in Gardner, Massachusetts.
17:43: If you could provide me with your full mailing address, because you have won a free
17:50: New American Standard Bible, since this is the first time you have written a question to us, and this
17:57: NASB is provided to you free of charge by the New American Standard Bible, one of our sponsors here at Iron Sharpens Iron, and it will be shipped to you by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CV as in Cumberland Valley, BBS for BibleBookService .com,
18:14: absolutely free of charge, and we thank Todd and Patty Jennings at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service for sponsoring
18:21: Iron Sharpens Iron, and for sending out all of our winners their Bibles and books and other things for free.
18:28: Also, Ligonier Ministries really has blessed me recently by informing me that I am one of a handful of their favorite talk show hosts.
18:40: I was totally blown away by this revelation, and they are trying to set up an interview with me and Dr.
18:48: John MacArthur, because they have published a new book by Dr.
18:53: MacArthur, and actually they are, that is the first of four new books by him, that are taken from sermons and lectures he has given at Ligonier Ministries conferences, and they are working on setting up that interview with me, so pray about that, because I'm looking forward to having
19:11: Dr. MacArthur back on my program. It's been quite a number of years, about a decade since I've had him on my show, but they have given me free copies of a book by Dr.
19:22: Stephen J. Nichols, who is the president of Reformation Bible College. His book is called A Time for Confidence, Trusting God in a
19:31: Post -Christian Society, and you are also getting that free of charge, Bruce, so thank you very much for submitting your question.
19:40: We also have Pastor Sterling Vanderwerker of Shepherd's Fellowship in Greensboro, North Carolina, whose question for you,
19:50: Greg, is, what is the scope of this first book on systematic theology, and what is the position advocated on creation and predestination in relation to creation and the fall?
20:07: Are you there, Greg? I'm here. I'm thinking. Would you please repeat the question?
20:16: Yes, I'll repeat it very slowly. What is the scope of this first book on systematic theology, and what is the position advocated on creation and predestination in relation to creation in the fall?
20:29: Could he be talking about supra versus infralapsarianism? I'm not sure exactly what he means.
20:35: All right, let me let me address the first question.
20:41: The first question, there's really two questions here, Chris. The first one, what is the scope of the book, okay?
20:47: The scope of the book is the doctrine of God, and with regard to the doctrine of God, as I say,
20:57: I have a prologue in which I introduced systematic theology. After that,
21:02: I open up the doctrine of God in five parts. The first part is the existence of God.
21:09: Does God exist, and what does the Bible say about God's existence? Secondly, can we know
21:15: God, the knowledge of God? And in there, I say that God is knowable, that he can be truly known, and that he is incomprehensible, that he can never be known exhaustively or completely by finite creatures.
21:31: The third part is really the major part of the book, in which I open up the nature of God, and I open up God's simple, supreme, and spiritual nature.
21:42: And in the first division, I open up God's supreme being, his existential attributes, God's ideality, his ideal being, his self -existent being, his infinite being, his eternal being, and his unchangeable being.
21:58: And in the second division, I open up his supreme spirituality, his incorporeality, the majestic spiritual form of God, God's amnesty, his infinite life, and infinite power, vivacity, and omnipotence.
22:17: Then in the third section of division two, I open up his faculty of mind, omniscience, his faculty of will, sovereignty, and his faculty of affection, emotivity.
22:29: Then in the next section, I open up God's morality, his supreme virtue. I open up his goodness, holiness, justice, and faithfulness, and I introduce that with his moral capacity and character, and I conclude it with what
22:44: I call God's self -esteem, God's esteem or consciousness of his own supreme virtue, how
22:53: God is aware of his goodness, holiness, justice, and faithfulness, and defends his character when he comes under attack.
23:00: And finally, I open up his personality, the Trinity, that the Father and the
23:06: Son and the Holy Spirit, three distinct persons, are the one and only supreme being.
23:11: So that's part three, the nature of God, God's supreme being and God's supreme spirituality, his ideality, self -existence, infinity, eternity, unchangeableness, his supreme mind, supreme will, supreme affection, his morality, his incorporeality, his life and power, and the
23:31: Trinity. And then in part four, I open up the names of God. How should we address
23:37: God? What names does God select for himself and reveal to us? And finally, in part five,
23:45: I open up the decree of God. I give an overview of God's decree, of God's eternal decision, by which he decided before the foundation of the world in eternity, when only
23:58: God was, everything that would happen in history. So he decided then to create, and he decided to save.
24:06: And it's in that section that I address the issue of predestination in general.
24:13: Now, I also address predestination specifically with regard to salvation, and when
24:20: I open up the doctrine of salvation. So I deal with predestination in two places.
24:26: I deal with it at the end of the doctrine of God, where I address the totality or the big picture of predestination,
24:33: God's eternal decree, and then I deal with it again. I deal with the predestination of the elect and of the reprobate.
24:42: I deal with election and reprobation, again, at the beginning of the doctrine of salvation.
24:50: So I deal with predestination in two places. So that's the content development of the doctrine of God.
24:56: That's what's in the book. Now let's have that second question again. Well, basically, the listener in Greensboro, North Carolina emailed me a second time while you were speaking, and he confirmed that I was right.
25:10: He wanted to know if you are making a decided or taking a decided position on either superlapsarianism, the fact that the decree of election and reprobation were made prior to the decree of the fall, or infralapsarianism, that the decree for predestination was made after the fall.
25:33: I think that's a very good question, and I do address that question in the book.
25:42: I open up with regard to God's decree. I open up the essential nature of God's decree, the concept of God's decree, and I'm going to address the question.
25:54: I'm just going to put it in context, okay? I'm not going to dodge it. God's decree is the eternal act of God's will in which the triune
26:02: God, emphatically the Father, solely out of His good pleasure, designed and determined in eternity everything that happens in history unto the praise of His glory.
26:13: So then I open that up, and then I open up some qualifications as for the
26:20: London Confession that God's decree does not contradict His impeccability, and God's decree does not contradict the moral free agency of creatures, and God's decree does not contradict instrumental liberty or contingency.
26:37: Then I open up the characteristics of God's decree. It is unconditional. It is immutable and irreversible.
26:44: It is effectual and invincible. It is ideal and immaculate, and it is incomprehensible.
26:50: Then I address what I call the internal order of God's decree, and infralapsarianism assigns exclusive logical priority to creation.
27:07: Supralapsarianism assigns exclusive logical priority to salvation.
27:13: The position that I take, which I believe is clearly taught in Scripture, is that it is inappropriate to try to strap
27:21: God's decree into the box or force it into the mold of one -dimensional human logic, and that creation does not have exclusive logical priority over salvation, and salvation does not have exclusive logical priority over creation, but that they are correlative, and they presuppose each other.
27:50: And I do address the infralapsarian perspective and their order of decrees and their concerns and their dangers, and I also address the supralapsarian perspective and their order of decrees and their concerns and their dangers, and then
28:07: I open up what I believe is the biblical teaching on the subject, and then
28:13: I come to this conclusion. I hope that this preserves you, my students, from the pitfalls of each view when it stands alone.
28:24: Some might wonder what to call my position. You can call me an infra -supralapsarian.
28:35: And just touching on that, I sometimes unconsciously use the terms election and predestination interchangeably without giving it too serious thought before I speak.
28:54: What are the differences specifically between those two concepts of predestination and election? Well, they come from two different Greek words that are part of the terminology for God's will,
29:09: God's decree, and the one word means to ordain or decide beforehand, that's predestination.
29:18: The other word election means to select or choose, and so that's the basic difference is the significance of those terms in the original.
29:26: I could give you the Greek, but I don't think you really need to. So is it an error to use them almost interchangeably when you're speaking of God's decree to save people before the foundation of the world?
29:38: No, it's not an error because both of those terms are used in that connection.
29:44: In fact, they're both used in that connection in several passages. Okay, we're going to a break right now, and by the way, thank you
29:50: Pastor Sterling Vanderwerker in Greensboro, North Carolina for that excellent question. Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,
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35:33: Welcome back, this is Chris Arns, and your host of Iron Shopping's Iron Radio, in studio with my co -host,
35:39: Rev. Buzz Taylor, and our guest today is Greg Nichols, one of three pastors at Grace Emanuel Reformed Baptist Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
35:47: We are discussing Greg's book, The Importance of Systematic Theology, with a special emphasis on God, creation, and salvation.
35:55: If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,
36:02: c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. And again,
36:08: I'm not 100 % sure, Pastor Greg, how familiar you are with the book,
36:15: The Shack, but since you deal with the doctrine of God in your systematic theology,
36:21: I have a listener all the way in Slovenia, who says, Brother Chris, along the lines of sound doctrine uniting
36:28: God's people, please ask Pastor Nichols to address the errant theology of the
36:34: Trinity put forth by William P. Young in the novel and movie, The Shack. How do false views of the
36:41: Trinity, such as his, skew our understanding of the remainder of Biblical theology categories?
36:49: Thank you for blessing us in tremendous ways every day. All right,
36:57: I've heard of that book, The Shack, but I've never read it, so I'm not really qualified or competent to comment on that question.
37:05: Okay, well, I could tell Joe in Slovenia that I don't know if your full answer, or should
37:10: I say the answer to your full question, will be a part of this program, but you could look up on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in the archive, ironsharpensironradio .com,
37:24: I should say, if you go to the archive where it says Past Programs Podcast in the top right corner, if you click on that and type in The Shack in the search engine,
37:36: I did a full two -hour critique of The Shack with Paul Flynn over there in the
37:43: Republic of Ireland, who has read the book many times over and has done a excellent critique of it, demonstrating how damaging and dangerous it is.
37:57: So I hope that you are blessed by that, and sorry that we could not address that today. We have
38:04: Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York, who says, is it safe to say that systematic theology helps
38:12: Christians express clearly what they believe already in the Word of God? Greg, did you hear that?
38:24: I heard it, I'm thinking about it. Okay, and if anybody else while he's thinking, you can join us on the air at chrisarnson at gmail .com,
38:33: chrisarnson at gmail .com, and please always give your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the
38:41: USA. I'm not sure that I would put it that way. I think that Christians are already disposed to believe what the
38:54: Bible says. I think that sometimes, and because they have, by the power and presence of the
39:05: Holy Spirit working in them, they have a disposition that loves God's Word and believes it to be true.
39:12: But that doesn't mean that in their understanding they always have a clear comprehension of what it says before they study it.
39:21: So I'm not sure I would say they already believe before they study it and understand it.
39:27: I'm not sure I'd go there. I understand that there's a predisposition to believe it because they believe that the
39:33: Word of God is true. So when they find out what it says, they embrace it, they believe it, but not before they study it.
39:42: Right, wouldn't it be more of an organized way of teaching the truths of God rather than the reverse of what our listener was saying?
39:51: Well, I think that what he's trying to communicate has an element of truth in it. I'm not saying that the fellow's wrong.
39:56: I think that he's trying to communicate the predisposition of Christians to believe everything that the
40:01: Word of God says because they believe that the Word of God is true and inerrant and infallible in all that it affirms.
40:08: And for that reason, when they study it, they believe it. So I think that's what he means to say, and I certainly agree with that.
40:16: And I think that systematic theology, if it's done biblically, supports and helps that process of Christians coming to understand and to know what the
40:24: Word of God says and then to embrace it. I think that's true. And that's one of my hopes is systematic theology would help
40:31: Christians in that regard, absolutely. Well, I know that we can have you on many, many, many more times to address all the subcategories under the umbrella of lectures in systematic theology.
40:44: And even in just this first volume, I'm wondering if this first volume is 10 ,000 pages long because you have a lot of parts to it.
40:54: It's about 678 pages. Wow, that's quite a substantial volume there.
41:01: You begin with an overview of the doctrine of God, if you could explain.
41:10: Yes, I introduce pretty much all of my systematics courses this way.
41:16: I give the students an understanding of what's going to be coming in the course.
41:23: I tell them what I'm going to tell them before I tell them. I tell them what's required of them.
41:30: I tell them the outline of the course so they know where we're going. I tell them the reading that's required and reading additional that's recommended and what's expected of them in the class.
41:41: I tell them all that, and that's a general overview of the course. But I don't like to end the course on the mundane, the course introduction on the mundane.
41:51: I like to end the course introduction with something that is practical and something that is experiential and something that would stir them up to want to study the doctrine of God and encourage them to study it in a way that would be spiritually beneficial to all of my students.
42:14: That's what I always hope. I hope that it would not just be an exercise in filling their heads with knowledge, but that it would be an exercise in glorifying
42:22: God in all of our hearts. So after I go through the overview and the requirements for doctrine of God, I talk about in the course overview a wholesome attitude toward the doctrine of God.
42:37: And the first thing is that we should study God, what the Bible says about God, God's nature and God's names and God's existence and knowing
42:47: God and God's decree. We should study with reverent hunger. Jehovah said to Moses, I will do this thing that you have spoken, for you have found favor in my sight.
42:59: And he said, show me your glory. And he said,
43:05: I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim the name of Jehovah before you.
43:13: So Moses hungered to see the glory of God. And that's our attitude.
43:19: That's what it ought to be when we study the doctrine of God. Show me your glory. Show me your glory.
43:27: And then the second thing is humility. And I base that on Isaiah 6, 1 -4, that when
43:33: Isaiah saw the glory of God in Jesus Christ, he experienced increased measure of humility.
43:41: The third thing is saving faith. Without faith, it is impossible to be well -pleasing to God.
43:47: For he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he was a rewarder of those that diligently seek him.
43:54: Hebrews 11 -6, what good would it do us to study the glory of God with an unbelieving heart?
44:02: And then imitation of God's virtue, as we see God's goodness, holiness, justice, faithfulness, that we would have the disposition increased in our heart to be like him.
44:13: But, we read, you are an elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, that you may show forth the excellences of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light, 1
44:27: Peter 2 -9. So when we see increased measures of God's glory through the study of his nature in Scripture, that we would imitate those virtues that we see.
44:38: And finally, grateful adoration to God. I mean, the end of that passage, Moses made haste and bowed his head and worshiped.
44:46: And my hope and my prayer is that as we study the doctrine of God and see more of who he is and what he does, that we would make haste and bow our heads and worship.
44:56: So that's a general overview. That's how I try to introduce the doctrine of God to students and also to anyone who reads this volume.
45:05: Uh, Tyler in Mastic Beach just wanted to clarify what he said. He said, sorry for the wrongly worded question.
45:11: I meant to ask, is systematic theology a tool to help Christians better understand and serve the
45:17: God shown in Scripture? And I think... That's what I thought he meant. He took all the power that he needed.
45:23: I took him to mean that. And yes, I think that's exactly the point. Amen. And Pastor Sterling Vanderwerker of Greensboro, North Carolina, who asked the question about supra versus infralapsarianism, said, excellent answer.
45:41: Pastor Greg holds the same position that I do, but I call it post -lapsarian.
45:46: Stop tying God to a post, arguing that infra and supra, arguing about infra and supra.
45:54: Lean toward the first infra and acknowledge the last supra. Okay. There are many ways to skin a cat.
46:02: I like his way. I think it's very cute. Um, well, uh, tell us something...
46:09: Please, Chris, address that a little more, because sometimes that whole discussion to Christians seems somewhat abstract, obtuse.
46:18: Like, what are these... Yes. And it's usually brought up in a joke where somebody is trying to say that something is totally unpractical and beyond the scope of our understanding.
46:33: Right, exactly. So let me just say what we're talking about, okay? Let me just make it, if I can, practical and down -to -earth, if that's possible.
46:44: Yes. Here it is. God had already decided to create when he decided to save.
46:51: That's part of the truth. And that part of the truth is the part of the truth that those so -called infilapsarians feature.
47:00: The other part of the truth, which is amazing, is that God had already...
47:05: And, of course, this is all taking place in eternity, not time. God had already decided to save when he decided to create.
47:15: So creation is viewed as certain when
47:21: God decides to save, and yet salvation is viewed as certain when
47:26: God decides to create. And the Scripture clearly teaches both of those things, so that you can't strap
47:36: God's decree with one -dimensional human logic, as though only one of them is true. They're both true at the same time, which is mysterious and marvelous, and shows us that God is incomprehensible, and his decree is incomprehensible, and we have to receive all that God's Word says about him, and not try to put him into...
47:57: What did he say? Bind him to some kind of post or something like that? I thought that was cute. Now, here's the thing. The Scripture clearly teaches both of these things.
48:05: First of all, it says in Ephesians chapter 2, verses 1 -3, and I just quote part of it, that we were, those of us who have been chosen into salvation, that we were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest, which means that salvation is a transition, a real transition in history from wrath to grace, which means that what
48:31: God decided to do in eternity, he planned in eternity a transition from wrath to grace, which means that he viewed us as under wrath, created, sinful, under wrath, when he decided to save us.
48:47: Scripture also says that Adam was created as a type, as a type of the one who is to come in Romans 5 -14.
49:02: That means that God, when he created
49:08: Adam, he created Adam after the pattern of Christ, which means that he had already decided to send
49:20: Christ when he created Adam, which means he already decided to send
49:26: Christ when he decided to create Adam. How do you put all that together in one dimension human logic?
49:34: You can't. You shouldn't even try. So that's why I say
49:40: I'm an infrasupra Lapsarian. By the way, I'm really enjoying this interview because I feel as if I am sitting in a pew in the church where you preach, because you cannot remove the preacher from Greg Nichols, that's certain.
49:57: And if anybody in the listening has not ever heard Pastor Greg Nichols preach, you've got to make it a point to look him up on Sermon Audio or Drivefly or take any means necessary to get to Grand Rapids, Michigan and visit the church.
50:17: I acknowledge what you just said. I have been accused for years, it's been said of me for years, it's been said he doesn't know the difference between preaching and teaching, and I'm guilty as charged.
50:31: When we use these phrases, when did God decide this and so on, those are anthropomorphisms, aren't they?
50:40: Because there's never been a point where a light bulb goes off over God's head and he says, hey, I got an idea, but something's taking him by surprise or something.
50:49: No, you're right. God decided this from all eternity when only God was. Before there was time, before there was space, before there was creation, before there was history, when there was only
50:59: God, God decided all this. And the actions of men do not change
51:06: God's opinion or mind or decrees. No, God decided all the actions of men before any of them happened, including human sin.
51:17: Well, if you could go into an overview, in fact, I'm going to wait until we come back from the break for you to answer this, but an overview of God's nature, simple, supreme, and spiritual.
51:29: Okay. And we're going to be taking a break right now, and if anybody would like to join us on the air as well, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.
51:39: C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please at least give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the
51:50: USA. And please only remain anonymous if it is about a personal or private matter.
51:56: Perhaps you're disagreeing with your own pastor on something or something of that effect. I would obviously not identify you anyway if you were doing something like that.
52:06: But unless it is a personal or private matter, please at least identify yourself by first name, city, state, and country of residence.
52:16: And once again, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. chrisarnsen at gmail .com.
52:22: Don't go away. We will be right back with Pastor Greg Reynolds and more on systematic theology.
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01:00:56: This is Chris Zarnes and your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with one hour to go is
01:01:04: Pastor Greg Nichols, one of three pastors at Grace Emanuel Reformed Baptist Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
01:01:11: He's the author of What Does the Bible Say About God? The Biblical Doctrine of God, Truth for Eternity, and Lectures in Systematic Theology, Volume 1, which is what we are addressing today.
01:01:25: If you'd like to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.
01:01:32: Before I return to our discussion, I just want to highlight a couple of upcoming interviews that you can mark your calendar for.
01:01:41: Tomorrow, we have returning to the program Jeremy Walker, who is going to be discussing his book,
01:01:48: Passing Through Pilgrim Life in the Wilderness, published by Reformation Heritage Books.
01:01:55: We're looking forward to having Jeremy Walker back on the program. Next Tuesday, we have
01:02:03: Larry Taunton on the program, who's going to be addressing his book, The Faith of Christopher Hitchens, and I don't want you to be misled by that title.
01:02:14: Christopher Hitchens never came to saving faith in Christ from what we know of when he, but before he passed away, and he, as far as we know, did die as an atheist, but this book is basically a good way to learn the mind of an atheist and be better equipped to dialogue with atheists with the truth of eternal life and things that atheists will typically bring up in a way to oppose the
01:02:48: Christian faith. Well, Larry Taunton has written a book specifically about his friendship with Christopher Hitchens that developed because they have debated each other and had many conversations, and I hope that you tune in for that because that should be a fascinating interview.
01:03:07: And we have Jim Renahan returning to Iron Sharpens Iron on March 2nd, and he is going to be addressing a subject that we have not yet determined,
01:03:21: Jim Renahan, president of the Institute for Reform Baptist Studies. Oh, and I forgot to mention on Wednesday, March 1st, we have
01:03:29: Todd Friel returning to the program, Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, and Todd Friel is going to be addressing his brand new book, which is hot off the press, that is titled
01:03:45: Reset for Parents, How to Keep Your Kids from Backsliding. That's an interesting title because I know that even the best of Christian parents are not
01:03:56: God, and they can't prevent certain things from happening, but I would love to find out exactly what
01:04:05: Todd is setting forth in this book, and I look forward to his return. And we have quite a number of other interesting topics and guests awaiting us in the days and weeks and months ahead, so keep tuning in to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
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01:05:53: That's another way you can make out your checks, cruciform media. We are back now with Greg Reynolds, a pastor of Grace Emanuel Reformed Baptist Church, and we are talking about the importance of systematic theology with a special focus on God, creation, and salvation, and before the break,
01:06:12: I asked you to give us an overview of God's nature, simple, supreme, and spiritual.
01:06:20: Yes, um, I summarized that in the introductory lecture to part three,
01:06:29: The Nature of God, where I speak about three major pillars of God's nature, the simplicity, supremacy, and spirituality.
01:06:40: Um, first of all, I address this simplicity, and simplicity simply means that God is without heart, that his attributes are what he is.
01:07:02: God is love, for example, scripture says, and yet,
01:07:09: God's attributes are distinct characteristics of God's nature.
01:07:17: They're not simply different words that describe same qualities, and so God's simplicity is a great comfort to believers, because it tells us that we can know
01:07:35: God as he really is, and it commends godliness, because God is love, therefore we should love.
01:07:47: God is light, therefore we should walk with him in the light. Second aspect is
01:07:53: God's supremacy, and God's supremacy,
01:08:00: I give an overview of God's supremacy in this introduction, that he alone is ideal, which means that he is inherently and infinitely perfect, that he alone is self -existent, that he alone is infinite, that is, he is limitless and illimitable, that he alone is eternal, which means that he is without origin, uncreated, and that he alone is unchangeable or immutable, that means that he alone is without alteration or change.
01:08:33: He does not develop or improve or mature or age or decay.
01:08:39: All God is, he always was and always will be. Then, with regard to the spirituality of God, I open up the text that says that God is a spirit, and those that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
01:08:57: First of all, I open up the concept of a spiritual being, that a spiritual being is a non -material living being with metaphysical faculty, mind, will, and affection, with morality, and with personality.
01:09:14: I establish those characteristics of spiritual beings from Scripture, and then
01:09:21: I speak about how this pertains to God, and refer to these aspects of the singular features of God's spirituality, these aspects of spirituality, as they pertain to God, that God is a non -material being, is incorporeality, has no body, but yet he dwells in unapproachable light and creation.
01:09:55: So, I address the subject of his majestic form, and then his life, his unlimited life and power, omnipotence, and then
01:10:05: I address his supreme mind, his supreme will, his supreme affection. And then, after that,
01:10:13: I address his infinite moral character, his infinite and impeccable virtue, and expound his holiness, justice, goodness, and faithfulness.
01:10:23: And finally, his personality, that God is a tri -personal being, that one supreme being is tri -personal, that is, there are three distinct persons, the
01:10:35: Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, who are the one and only supreme being. So, I open up the
01:10:40: Trinity in Topic 22, and finally, I address the practical application of his spirituality, that because God is a spirit, we should worship him in spirit and in truth.
01:10:56: So, that is basically an overview of God's nature, and after I give that overview, then
01:11:03: I have specific lectures on the ten aspects of his spirituality and his supremacy that I just outlined.
01:11:13: By the way, the Reverend Buzz Taylor, my co -host, brought to my attention that before the commercial break,
01:11:22: I identified you as Greg Reynolds, who is another friend of mine, an Orthodox Presbyterian pastor and author, and I'm sorry for making that mistake there, brother.
01:11:33: I don't know if you know Greg Reynolds, but he's a great guy, so it wasn't a bad mistake. I don't know him personally, no, but I have heard of him.
01:11:44: There is a listener in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, CJ, who wants to know, since your book involves the immutability of God, have you come down on a side during the public division amongst
01:12:05: Reformed Baptists in regard to the impassibility of God, and is it an issue that really requires division?
01:12:16: I have not addressed division over that in the book, and I have not desired to enter into any such debate or division, and I do not want to be divided from anyone over that issue.
01:12:35: I do believe that God is immutable, and also, under the issue of God's incorporeality,
01:12:47: I do address the fact that God is impassable. I also believe that the
01:12:55: Scripture clearly teaches that, but I have no interest in getting involved in any division over that subject.
01:13:12: And all sides of that debate agree with the immutability of God, they just disagree over whether their differences on the impassibility in any way intrude upon that subject.
01:13:28: And obviously there are dear brothers on both sides who are thoroughly
01:13:35: Reformed and faithful to the Scriptures in many, many ways, right? I would agree that I have no interest in seeing
01:13:43: God's people divided over it, or in any way contribute to any divisions of heart over that matter.
01:13:55: I do address the subject of God's impassibility on page 267 of the book, and I open up three sentences in which
01:14:06: God is without passion. I'll just give you the headings. God is without passion because He is invulnerable to bodily suffering.
01:14:15: God is without passion because He is without bodily appetite. And God is without passion because He does not have human emotions or carnal affection.
01:14:32: And when I teach later on about God's affections,
01:14:41: I do teach that He has divine affections, but I distinguish between divine affection and human emotion.
01:14:50: And I don't know that you want me to get into all that right now. Sure, I mean it's up to you if you want to. I mean if you want to be brief about it, that's fine.
01:14:58: Well, human emotions involve the body because the human emotion has not only a spiritual aspect that involves the soul, but also a human emotion has a physical aspect that involves the body.
01:15:11: And because God does not have a body, He does not have human emotions per se, but He does feel.
01:15:18: He really and truly feels. But what He feels is divine affection. And these are distinct from anything that is carnal or anything that has a bodily dimension to it because God doesn't have a body.
01:15:39: And with regard to God's immutability, I speak about God's absolute immutability,
01:15:47: God's relative immutability, and God's meditatorial immutability.
01:15:52: That is that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
01:15:58: But then I present, in an effort to be balanced and biblical, seven qualifications of God's immutability.
01:16:06: God is immutable, but He is not inanimate. He's a living God and He's active.
01:16:12: God is immutable, but not antisocial or impersonal. God is immutable, but not apathetic or heartless.
01:16:22: He truly feels. God is immutable, but not implacable or obdurate.
01:16:29: God is immutable, but not inexorable or unapproachable.
01:16:36: God's immutability does not preclude augmentation, betterment, advancement, and development in His covenantal relationship with His people.
01:16:47: The New Covenant is a better covenant based on better promises, and the fact that God has an old and new covenant doesn't make
01:16:56: Him mutable. And finally, God incarnate has immutable deity, but not immutable humanity.
01:17:05: With regard to His human body and His human soul, He increased in stature and in wisdom.
01:17:13: He has immutable deity, not immutable humanity. So I think that some qualifications or some clarifications are necessary with regard to God's immutability, because once again,
01:17:27: God is incomprehensible, and you have to take the entire witness of Scripture as to what it says.
01:17:33: You can't take God and put Him into a little box constructed by one -dimensional human logic.
01:17:38: You have to follow what the Scripture says, and that leads us to mystery of an incomprehensible and immutable
01:17:45: God who truly feels and who truly answers prayer. We have
01:17:54: Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who says, I'm assuming you're talking about the Trinity in your book.
01:18:00: Do you take a side on the eternal subordination view of the
01:18:06: Son in regard to the Trinity that seems to have divided Reformed Christians all over the
01:18:13: United States and parts of Europe? I have become aware that there is a division over the
01:18:23: Trinity that is a recent division over this type of issue, and I am not personally familiar with it, and I do not, as far as I know, address that.
01:18:34: The view of the Trinity that I take is completely consistent with the confessions and creeds, and I quote from them, including the
01:18:47: Athanasian Creed in my presentation of the Doctrine of the Trinity. And so, no,
01:18:55: I do not personally address that specifically, and because I'm not familiar with that modern controversy,
01:19:04: I don't really know how exactly to say my view applies to it.
01:19:12: I teach what is the historical orthodox doctrine of the
01:19:17: Trinity. Of that, I am absolutely certain. Of this latest controversy,
01:19:24: I am not personally involved in that either. Now, one of the things that you address in the section on God's faculty is the omniscience of God, and the omniscience of God has led
01:19:42: Calvinists and Arminians into two different directions in regard to his decree, or decrees, plural.
01:19:52: You have the Arminians who basically say that God's decrees are based on his omniscience because he knows what will happen in the future, particularly in regard to the election of his people.
01:20:06: They will say God chooses people that he knows, being omniscient, will choose him.
01:20:13: And the Calvinist says, no, God knows all things that will come to pass because he has already decreed them to come to pass.
01:20:19: But if you could comment on that way that the one truth of his omniscience has led
01:20:24: Christians to division in two different directions, especially in regard to election and predestination.
01:20:30: Well, the real issue with division is not God's omniscience. Everybody believes that God is omniscient.
01:20:36: The real issue with division there is whether God is sovereign, and whether God, in his decree, decrees things conditionally, or whether his decree is unconditional.
01:20:50: And as I read to you before, um, one of the characteristics of God's decree that the scripture clearly, emphatically, repeatedly teaches is that God's decree is unconditional.
01:21:02: That he decided what he decided because it pleased him in his good pleasure to do so.
01:21:10: And that's the real point of division and contention. And I clearly believe that the
01:21:18: Bible emphatically teaches that God's decree is unconditional, in the sense that God decided, not because he foresaw what would happen, but he decided because it pleased him to decide.
01:21:30: And God knows what's going to happen because God decided what's going to happen. Amen. And I hope
01:21:35: I didn't miscommunicate what I intended to say. I didn't mean to say that Arminians don't believe in the omniscience of God.
01:21:40: I mean that they, that that truth led them to different opinions, and Calvinists who believe in the same truth to other opinions.
01:21:50: I understand your point, and I think your point is correct. I'm just suggesting that what the real division is are
01:21:57: God's will, and people that are really unwilling to accept some of the mysteries and tensions associated with the will of God in scripture.
01:22:07: And again, I have a phrase that I use over and over again, and that is, defense around the mystery, and that sound biblical theology is just a fence around the mystery to guard it from the hands of men.
01:22:20: And what the Bible says about God's will is such that it involves a mystery that is inexplicable and cannot be resolved by one -dimensional human logic.
01:22:34: And you have to embrace the Word of God in all that it says, even if you can't logically explain it all.
01:22:41: And that to me is a fundamental principle of exogenous scripture and dealing with an incomprehensible
01:22:49: God. Yes, it seems that the two opposite poles of the spectrum,
01:22:55: Calvinists and Arminians, seek to protect certain things about God.
01:23:04: The Calvinist is trying to protect the teaching of his sovereignty, and also the teaching of man's unworthiness and depravity.
01:23:17: And the Arminian is trying to protect the idea of his love and trying to remove him from the equation of sin that occurs in this world entirely.
01:23:32: And the Calvinist seems to be the only one that fully upholds both the sovereignty and responsibility of man.
01:23:42: It seems that the Arminian, and of course I am a Calvinist, so I'm speaking with bias, but it seems that the
01:23:47: Arminian really diminishes and even at sometimes denies the sovereignty of God while upholding the responsibility of man.
01:24:00: Well, I'm also a Calvinist, but I'm not ashamed of it, because I believe it's what the scripture teaches.
01:24:06: On the other hand, I prefer to think of it more in terms of three categories or groups rather than two.
01:24:14: And I think when you add the third category, I'm more comfortable. And the third category that I would add is the
01:24:20: Hyper -Calvinist. I would put the Calvinist in the middle, and I would put the
01:24:25: Arminian and the Hyper -Calvinist on the two extremes. And I think that genuine
01:24:31: Calvinism—well, maybe I shouldn't say genuine, I'll just call it Calvinism. I don't want to presuppose that there's some other kind of Calvinism that's not genuine.
01:24:43: Just Calvinism embraces the mystery.
01:24:50: Historically, I believe it does. It's Hyper -Calvinism that can't embrace the mystery, can't embrace the aspect of God's love, and it's
01:24:58: Arminianism that can't embrace the mystery. If God is sovereign, then man can't be responsible for an
01:25:04: Arminian. If God is sovereign over sin, then God must be the author and he must be culpable of sin for the
01:25:09: Arminian. For the Hyper -Calvinist, if God is sovereign and God decreed reprobation, then
01:25:17: God cannot have a well -meant offer of Christ to sinners, even to the reprobate.
01:25:22: It can't embrace the mystery either. There is another extreme out there, and we as Calvinists are always in danger of falling off into one of those extremes or the other, and I'm concerned that we don't fall off into Hyper -Calvinism running away from Arminianism as far as we can get.
01:25:40: Rather than running away from something, we need to run to Scripture and embrace all that the Scripture says and embrace the mystery, and I believe historically
01:25:48: Calvinism does that. For example, the canons of the Synod of Dort teach a well -meant offer of Christ to all that hear the gospel.
01:25:57: Even the canons of Dort teach that. That's historic Calvinism as historic as you want to get.
01:26:05: And yeah, I think that that's excellent to bring in the Hyper -Calvinists to the equation because it demonstrates how those on the polar opposites of either side of the truth, which we obviously would believe is
01:26:18: Calvinism because we are Calvinists, but those on either side of us, to the right or to the left of us, are ignoring one aspect or another of the
01:26:29: Scriptures in regard to God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. Whereas the true historic
01:26:37: Calvinist attempts to harmonize them both but also leaves a lot to mystery because we can't totally comprehend some of these things and never will this side of heaven anyway.
01:26:51: Yes, I would say that's true. We embrace the fact that we have finite minds and our logic can never fully explain an incomprehensible
01:26:59: God. And we have to embrace all that Scripture teaches. And sometimes that leaves us on a razor's edge.
01:27:06: And it's often, as I say, theology is the fence around the mystery to guard it from the hands of men.
01:27:15: Amen. And we're going to our final break right now. If you'd like to join us, this is your opportunity to ask a question of Pastor Greg Nichols, not
01:27:24: Reynolds. We'll have Pastor Reynolds on at some other point, God willing. But for Pastor Greg Nichols, our email address is chrizarnsen at gmail .com.
01:27:35: C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. And, you know, before I go to the break,
01:27:41: I might as well ask another question. I usually don't let our listeners ask more than one question.
01:27:47: But Tyler, again, from Mastic Beach, Long Island, asked a question that I think is good, because even my co -host,
01:27:53: Reverend Buzz Taylor, brought it up before the program in a different way of wording it.
01:27:59: But perhaps you could answer this question when we return from the break, Pastor Greg.
01:28:04: But Tyler says, I have heard many evangelicals say that systematic theology is man's teaching and that we should only stick to the
01:28:14: Bible. Is there a way how I could explain and love the benefits of studying systematics? And I can clearly remember
01:28:21: Harold Camping, the late Harold Camping, saying something very similar to that, which is very ironic, because for most of his life he claimed to be
01:28:29: Reformed. But we are going to our break, and you could respond to that after we return, Pastor Greg.
01:28:35: We're going to our final break right now, so we look forward to hearing from you and your questions for Pastor Greg Nichols in a few moments.
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01:32:29: That's nasbible .com. Welcome back. This is Chris Zarnes, and if you just tuned us in, our guest for the last 90 minutes and the next half hour on Iron Sharpens Iron is
01:32:40: Greg Nichols, one of three pastors at Grace Emmanuel Reformed Baptist Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan, the author of What Does the
01:32:48: Bible Say About God? The Biblical Doctrine of God, Truth for Eternity, and Lectures in Systematic Theology, Volume 1, and I believe you said this was the first, intended to be the first of seven volumes?
01:33:03: Yes. This is the Doctrine of... Volume 1 is the Doctrine of... with the
01:33:09: Doctrine of... an Introduction to Systematic Theology. If I'm willing, Volume 2, which should be out in December this year, would be the
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01:33:43: solid -ground -books .com. That is the website of Solid Ground Christian Books, a faithful sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:33:54: You have an interesting phrase in the table of contents for your book,
01:34:02: God's Self -Esteem, if you could describe what you mean by that.
01:34:08: I can, but can I answer first the question... Oh yeah, I forgot! I'm sorry,
01:34:14: I totally forgot about Tyler's question, yes, about Systematic Theology being man's ideas and that we should stick to the
01:34:23: Bible. Right. I think that is a really very, very important question, and I don't know how much time we have left, so let me say something before I answer that.
01:34:35: The first thing I want to say is thank you very much. I feel myself very honored and privileged to be on here with you today,
01:34:40: Chris, and I want to thank you for the opportunity to come and to answer questions and to talk about Systematic Theology, because Systematic Theology is very much upon my heart.
01:34:53: Systematic Theology is topical teaching that expounds the major themes of the Bible, and hopefully expounds them biblically.
01:35:01: Now, because there has been such antipathy to Systematic Theology, as the question presupposes,
01:35:08: I have a section in which I open up the biblical mandate for Systematic Theology, and it's in the introduction.
01:35:17: The introduction is Systematics, the prologue to the doctrine of God.
01:35:23: And first of all, I support it by the responsibility of Christians to obey the apostolic dogma, the apostolic dogmata.
01:35:31: As they went on their way to the cities, they gave them the decrees, dogmata, to keep, which had been ordained of the apostles and elders that read
01:35:39: Jerusalem, so the churches were strengthened in the faith and increased in number daily.
01:35:45: And I open up that, I won't get into the exposition now, but I want to just set the biblical basis here.
01:35:50: And then the second thing is the stewardship of gospel ministers to proclaim the sum of Christian faith and duty.
01:35:58: Paul says, I shrank not from declaring to you the whole counsel of God.
01:36:05: But the third thing, and I open this up in the greatest detail, is the duty of each
01:36:11: Christian to affirm the Christian faith and to reject false doctrines.
01:36:18: We read in Ephesians 4, 13 -15, till we all attain the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the
01:36:24: Son of God, to a full -grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, that we may no longer be children tossed to and fro and carried with every wind of doctrine by slight of men in craftiness after the wiles of error.
01:36:42: But speaking truth and love may grow up in all things unto him who is the head, even
01:36:48: Christ. It is not sound doctrine that divides God's people. It is error that divides
01:36:54: God's people. So to the extent that systematic theology is an accurate presentation of what the
01:37:02: Bible says about its major topics, it is not false doctrine. It is sound and wholesome and true doctrine.
01:37:09: And therefore, it does not create division and harm, but it unites the people of God.
01:37:14: And I take quite a bit of time in this section to open up the biblical doctrine of doctrine.
01:37:25: And John Gill said long ago, systematical divinity,
01:37:31: I am sensible, and this was on page 67 of the book, is now, in the 1700s, become very unpopular.
01:37:41: Formulas and articles of faith, creeds, confessions, catechisms, and summaries of divine truth are greatly decried in our age, end quote.
01:37:54: If people made it systematic then, when John Gill wrote, should we be shocked?
01:38:01: Not popular today? Well, you know, if you have people that are trying to maintain, for example, their own denominational position, and of course they're studying systematic theology, you can see where they could use that, you know, well,
01:38:17: I believe in the systematic theology that was written by so -and -so who happens to be in my group.
01:38:23: I think that's where they get the feeling that it's the teaching of men. It's a chance for people to disagree over some of the major issues of Scripture.
01:38:34: I think that's really where the fault lies, isn't so much in the fact, I mean, obviously, the
01:38:40: Bible has topics like the Holy Spirit and so forth, you know, that we do want to understand what the
01:38:45: Scriptures say about it, but there are people, I mean, let's face it, the fact that there are different denominations, there are people who will not see certain things in Scripture because it goes against their systematic theology.
01:38:59: Well, it may go against their denominational creeds and confessions. Exactly, yes. But see,
01:39:05: I make a distinction between symbolics, which is the creeds and confessions of the Church, and systematics, exposition of the
01:39:13: Word of God. And I agree that it's one man's exposition, that's true. But let me just say this, your point is so valid that part of the criticism of systematic theology has been that they have used, or some have used, a static method which makes philosophical sense and makes propositions, and then goes to a few proof texts to try to defend them, and that is fundamentally not the right way to do systematic theology.
01:39:45: I have told to people that that's not the right way to do it, that the right way to do systematic theology, and this is the way
01:39:52: I've tried to do it. And it's part of the fact, as I was telling you before when we were talking on the phone privately, that part of my reason for approaching it this way is
01:40:02: I don't have a denominational history. I mean, I'm not ashamed of the 1689. I didn't grow up in a 1689
01:40:08: Church. I wasn't a Christian when I grew up. I didn't know anything about the Bible. I'm not a philosopher.
01:40:15: So what I've done is I have simply tried, without prejudice, without addition, without subtraction, to find all the terminology that the
01:40:25: Bible uses on a given topic, find every text in the Scripture where it addresses that topic, put all that data down, then to study every one of those passages and try to read it in context, in sensitivity to the principles of biblical theology and historical grammatical exegesis, then put together what all those various passages say, and try to present that portion without addition, without subtraction, without anything else, just present what the
01:40:56: Bible says on the topic. That's what I try to do. I approach systematics, that's the way
01:41:01: I've always approached it, the way I know how to do it. Let me say one other thing, and it's very important. I'm not saying, as you've been playing commercials here about Spurgeon saying that people should read, and if you don't read, you know, they say some funny comments,
01:41:16: I can't remember specifically. Those who don't use the thoughts of other men's brains have no brains.
01:41:22: Well, here's the point. I try to approach my systematics, again, as I said, from exegeting all the passages on a text, finding them, just presenting what it says.
01:41:35: Don't add, don't subtract, don't distort, as much as is humanly possible. I'm not saying that I don't miss things, or that I don't distort things, but it's not intentional or dogmatic, or trying to prove a preconceived notion.
01:41:50: I've never approached it that way. On the other hand, however, you must not do systematics as though you are the only person in church history that has ever read the
01:42:00: Bible, and you must respect the illumination that God has given to his servants and to the churches in the past.
01:42:11: So I read the theologians, and I study the theologians, and sometimes when a topic is particularly controversial,
01:42:19: I present what the theologians say. I read the creeds, I read the confessions, I read the theologians,
01:42:26: I interact with them. I try not to act as though I'm the only person on earth that's ever studied all the texts on a given topic.
01:42:34: That, to me, is proud. What you wind up with, at the end of the day, is something totally out of bound, that it is completely foreign.
01:42:47: Like, if you wind up denying that there are three persons who are the one Supreme Being, there's something wrong with your teaching.
01:42:54: You need to come back within the boundaries set by the illumination that God has given to his servants over the centuries.
01:43:02: You can't act like a maverick, like you're the only person to ever study what the Bible says on a topic.
01:43:07: You have to have balance. The fundamental presentation is not to rehash the theologians.
01:43:13: It's not to prove a preconceived dogmatic philosophical point. It's to study all the comprehensive witness of Scripture on a topic, and present that comprehensively without distorting it, without adding, without subtracting.
01:43:26: And yet at the same time, with humility, being sensitive to the fact that God has given light to his servants over the centuries.
01:43:34: And you can't act as though that doesn't exist. And so you can just willy -nilly go wandering outside the boundaries and the fence posts that have been set by that light.
01:43:45: Right, yeah. Well, I do admit that a lot of the people who would complain about following a systematic theology are the same kind of people who would say, well, this verse really means to me as if nobody else existed.
01:43:58: And a lot of them would also be quick to be against even the preaching of the word, because that's man.
01:44:05: I mean, you're going to get all kinds of different weird ideas out there anyway.
01:44:11: But I think you did a good job there of defending, yes, you check what the
01:44:18: Scriptures say about it, and you try to get the whole picture of that. And take into account, yes,
01:44:24: I mean, Calvin rocked the theological world when he wrote the Institutes. People hadn't systematized theology like that before.
01:44:32: And every generation now has the opportunity to build on that. And I think, you know, we've come up with some pretty good works along the way.
01:44:40: And of course, I'm looking forward to seeing yours as well. Thank you. Yes, let me say that what
01:44:47: I've discovered, what I found, is so often the difference between logical groups and errors are because the people lay hold of one set of texts, but they find it so hard to put that together with another set of texts.
01:45:05: And so they take one side of the biblical testimony, or they take the other side of the biblical testimony.
01:45:12: And what I'm saying, let's take it all. Yes. Don't leave any of it out. Don't add, don't subtract.
01:45:18: Sent what it says, all of it apprehensively. And don't leave any out there, because you can't fit it all together.
01:45:25: Just present what it says, right? Yes. Try by God's grace in prayer, not to distort it.
01:45:32: Yes, those pastors who seek to diminish the importance of great teachers from the past and present, those who have, like Calvin and the
01:45:48: Reformers and the Puritans and so on, those who say, oh, you're adding to the Bible by bringing those men into the teaching of the
01:45:57: Word of God. Let's just stick to the Bible. What they are failing to inform you is that they want themselves to be the only teacher that you're hearing.
01:46:06: So they're not removing the man from the equation. They are themselves, considering themselves too high and lofty, and thinking that they are the only ones that you should be learning from and hearing.
01:46:20: And of course, I've brought this up many times with different guests on the program, the anti -credal and anti -confessional
01:46:28: Christians out there who tend to be more of the fundamentalist persuasion, although even some liberals might have that view, saying that there is no creed, but the
01:46:38: Bible is a creedal statement. Yes, it is. Yeah, so no one knows without a creed if you have any explanation of what the
01:46:47: Bible says. Yes, and I am unashamedly committed to all the doctrinal distinctives and to all the doctrinal assertions of the 1689
01:46:57: London Confession of Faith, and I say it unashamedly. Briefly, let me address your question about God's self -esteem.
01:47:05: Yes. I address that in pages 543 to 548 of the book, and I define it this way.
01:47:13: God's self -esteem is his moral self -awareness, his infallible perception and infinite esteem of his own supreme virtue.
01:47:26: And I open up a summary of the biblical testimony that God declares his supreme virtue.
01:47:33: God declares his goodness. God declares his holiness. God declares his justice. God declares his faithfulness.
01:47:40: And then God is totally dedicated to his supreme virtue, and he defends it.
01:47:48: He defends it from the doubts of godly saints and from accusations of sinners among his people, and he defends his virtue when
01:47:57: God incarnate is personally insulted by those that hated him.
01:48:02: And what I say by way of implications is we should reflect God's esteem of his ideal moral character, and we should reflect
01:48:14: God's esteem of our Christian moral character. And if the wicked esteem themselves, those in sin, to be those that cannot please
01:48:31: God, ironically, they don't suffer from bad self -esteem. To the contrary, it would be proper self -esteem, for it's exactly how
01:48:40: God esteems them. If lost sinners want to improve their self -assessment, they must get right with God through the gospel of Christ.
01:48:49: And if sinners manage, by some other means, to improve their estimate of where they stand with God, they suffer from self -delusion, and ironically, they end up with worse self -esteem than they had in the first place.
01:49:03: Amen. Now, you know, having said that, don't you think that some, perhaps those from more of a hyper -Calvinistic persuasion, or even perhaps those within the boundaries of historic
01:49:18: Calvinism might sometimes occasionally fall into this, don't you think there's a danger of us repeatedly describing men as human garbage, basically, because Jesus Christ did not die on Calvary to redeem garbage.
01:49:37: I mean, he viewed us as so valuable, not that we were worthy of anything good from him, but he obviously received the wrath of his own father to redeem his people.
01:49:51: So obviously, there's a difference between the teaching of the total depravity of man and teaching that we are just garbage, that none of us should be pro -life if human beings are just garbage.
01:50:07: It wouldn't really make any difference if women were murdering their children in their wombs if humans were just garbage.
01:50:15: If you could just comment on that. Yes, I never ever say anything like the idea that any human being is garbage.
01:50:23: That is radically falsely, that is radically unbiblical.
01:50:29: It is absolutely not true that human beings are garbage. In the state of sin, human beings are not garbage.
01:50:37: And in the state of grace, human beings are not garbage. That is simply, completely, totally false.
01:50:44: And I understand your concern about that. That is radically unbiblical.
01:50:49: I mean, Jesus says, is not a man of more value than a sheep? Is not a man of more value than many sparrows?
01:50:57: And I'm just off the top of my head, texts are coming to my mind, but every human being is the image of God.
01:51:03: And even though the state of sin, that image is marred by sin, and man in the state of sin goes from being a living, visible representation of God, and he becomes a living, visible representation of God, even though that's true, still has value as a human being who is
01:51:24: God's image. Even though he's representing God, he's not garbage. And Jesus doesn't teach that human beings are garbage.
01:51:35: Yeah, okay. You know, even in our own Christian experience, the Apostle Paul said, you know, that we're not to think more highly of ourselves than we ought, but then he followed that up and said, but to think soberly, and you know, it would be just as wrong not to acknowledge and, you know, recognize the grace of God that has worked in my own life, as it would be to pretend, you know, if I were to pretend that I'm just nothing, nothing, it would negate everything
01:52:00: Christ has done. Amen. That's well said. I appreciate that. Well, I knew there was a reason
01:52:06: I had you in here, Buzz. Every once in a while. If you could, use the next five minutes to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners,
01:52:16: Pastor Greg. Oh, thank you. That's a very good point.
01:52:22: I want God to be honored and glorified above all. God's word to be honored.
01:52:28: I want God's name to be honored. I want God's people to know and love
01:52:33: God and his truth, and therefore become closer to each other and to love each other more, because they know
01:52:41: God better and they love God more. That's my burden, and I believe systematic theology is for pastors.
01:52:48: It's for churches. It's for all the people in the pews. It's for grandmothers and for blue -collar workers.
01:52:55: It's for all God's people. It's the faith once delivered to the saints, and therefore it's for all of us, and I try to present it in a practical way.
01:53:07: I try to present it in an exegetical way that I hope is edifying to all God's people.
01:53:13: My ultimate hope is that God would be honored. God would be glorified. His word would be magnified, and his people would be blessed and unified, and that sinners would get saved, and that the churches would be strengthened in the faith.
01:53:27: This is my hope and my prayer in addressing the subject of systematic theology.
01:53:32: It's what I want to see by God's grace and for God's glory accomplished. That's it. Amen. Well, I want to give out some contact information.
01:53:42: I know that Grace Emanuel Reformed Baptist Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan, your website is girbc .org.
01:53:51: G -I -R for Grace Emanuel Reformed. B -C for baptischurch .org.
01:53:58: And I know that the Solid Ground Christian Books website, for those of our listeners interested in ordering
01:54:05: Volume 1 of your systematic theology, is solid -ground -books .com.
01:54:11: Solid -ground -books .com. And you could type
01:54:17: Nichols, N -I -C -H -O -L -S, in the book search on that website, and that will come up.
01:54:24: Lectures in Systematic Theology, Volume 1, The Doctrine of God. Do you have any other contact information that you care to provide for our listeners?
01:54:34: No, I don't. Thank you for the opportunity. Well, if you could hold on the line after we go off the air, because I do want to schedule you for another interview, if that's okay with you.
01:54:47: Whatever I can do to help is a privilege for me. Thank you. Well, it's been a privilege to have you on, and if you could hold on,
01:54:53: I will speak to you after we go off the air. I want to thank everybody for listening today, especially those who took the time to write in your very insightful questions.
01:55:02: I want to thank everybody who has been letting me know that you are praying for the future of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, that you are trying to spread the word about our need for new advertisers and sponsors.
01:55:17: I appreciate that more than human language can possibly convey. I appreciate those, especially, obviously, who have already sent in donations and who have already sent in suggestions of businesses and ministries that they believe may wish to advertise with us on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:55:40: Just keep in mind, those of you who are discovering Iron Sharpens Iron for the first time, I hope you don't think that this is something that you will hear every day, every week, every month, and every year, a constant plea for support as you are typically hearing from many televangelists and other people in the media who have a
01:56:03: Christian broadcast of some kind. This is something very rare for Iron Sharpens Iron.
01:56:09: Those of you who have listened to my program since 2006 know that this is very atypical.
01:56:16: It's very unusual for me to be coming on nearly every day for the last two weeks with a plea for more advertisers, sponsors, and donations.
01:56:27: But it just so happens that we are in a very critical season in the life of this broadcast and we truly do need your help.
01:56:35: Any way that you can help out, even if you think in your mind that a check may be too insignificant and small and you may be embarrassed to mail it, well, if everybody listening were to mail in a small check, it would help considerably to keep
01:56:49: Iron Sharpens Iron on the air. And once again, you can go to ironsharpensironradio .com, ironsharpensironradio .com,
01:56:56: and click on support, which is the third option at the top of the page, and that will give you the mailing address where you can send your checks made payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:57:09: That's the easiest way to make out your checks, the easiest to remember, Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, or you can make them out to cruciformmedia, c -r -u -c -i -f as in frank, o -r -m as in media, media, that's cruciformmedia is the other way to make out the checks, but obviously
01:57:29: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is easier to remember. I also want to remind you of some of the upcoming guests that we have scheduled on Iron Sharpens Iron that I didn't mention earlier.
01:57:45: We have on March 7th, Ryan McGraw, who is on the faculty of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylor, South Carolina.
01:57:56: He is returning to Iron Sharpens Iron, and I tell you, Brian McGraw is an absolutely brilliant young man, absolutely uh was was very pleasantly surprised to hear that he is the son -in -law of a new neighbor of mine here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
01:58:12: Pastor Deckard Stevens, who is the new associate pastor where my co -host is worshiping at Carlisle Reformed Presbyterian Church.
01:58:19: Yes, Deckard Stevens is truly a precious brother. He's going to be here Sunday night. Oh, that's right for the installation installation service of Deckard Stevens, and I plan to be there,
01:58:29: God willing. Uh, Ron Glass, Pastor Ron Glass of Wading River Baptist Church is going to be on the program the 9th and 10th of March.
01:58:40: That's Thursday and Friday the 9th and 10th of March. Pastor Ron Glass has been a dear friend of mine since going back to the 1990s.
01:58:49: He is a brilliant brother in Christ. He's a thoroughgoing Calvinist and a dispensationalist, so we do have disagreements, but I also have as one of my modern -day heroes
01:59:00: John MacArthur, who's a dispensationalist, so I'm not going to hold that against Pastor Ron, but Pastor Ron, even though he knows that I have these disagreements with him, is one of the largest benefactors and supporters of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:59:14: He believes in what we're doing so much that he overlooks that difference that we have, and he is, though, having said what
01:59:21: I said, reminding you he is a thoroughgoing Calvinist, and he will be on the program the 9th and 10th of March, and I'm looking forward to that.
01:59:28: Well, once again, thank you all for listening. Thank you for writing in your questions. Thank you for praying for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:59:35: Please continue to send in those suggestions for advertisers. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater