Webbon Implodes, Bad Sola Scriptura Argument, New Pope Promotes Liguori

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:29

Well, good afternoon. Welcome to the Dividing Line. It is a hot, hot day. I think it's about the hottest day we've had so far, and it feels that way anyways.

00:39

My backyard is only reading 109, so that's not the hottest, but the humidity is way up.

00:48

So it just is brutal, and it always happens. You know,

00:54

June, July weren't bad, so August has had a few rough spots. Hey, a couple days ago wasn't too bad at all.

01:00

Had some beautiful mornings, and it's supposed to be in the upper 90s by next week. In fact, when

01:06

I pick up the RV to get ready for the next trip, it should be a lot nicer than it is today, but it's brutal at the moment, and I'm just hoping the electricity stays on, because believe you me, if it doesn't, we're done.

01:22

Oh, electricity just went out. Bye. You know, that would be it. I'm heading home. Oh yeah, get in the cars and fire up that AC, and that's, yeah, it'll be interesting to see what...

01:36

I have a thermometer inside my truck. I bought one for the summer. It is an oven thermometer.

01:44

It is. It's for putting in your oven. That's the only way you get that would go high enough to do an appropriate reading when you get into a black truck that's been sitting in the sun for a few hours in Phoenix, Arizona in August.

01:58

It's just the way it is. Hey, we got a lot to get to, and I only have a certain amount of time. We are limited. I have another meeting after this

02:04

I need to get to. So much to get to. Some of you may have seen yesterday,

02:14

Joel Webben posted a picture on X of Jews in a swimming pool.

02:24

It's part of the anti -Holocaust narrative. There is a context to it that he didn't quite give, obviously, and it was all in the snarky, oh boy, looks like they are really suffering thing.

02:38

It's the same snark that was the meme that started everything over a year ago. It's only getting worse, and I said last year that by April this year with the conference that was being held, a lot of lines would be more clearly drawn, and by the end of the year, they would be very clearly done.

02:58

Well, I was obviously being way too generous, and some folks aren't waiting around for the end of the year to make things very, very clear.

03:08

This is also shown by the fact that Joel Webben is talking about getting together with Nick Fuentes, the

03:18

I -can't -get -through -three -words -without -dropping -the -f -bomb Roman Catholic guy, anti -Semite, wild -eyed, woo -hoo, out -there -in -the -ozone type guy, and I had said, when that type of thing starts happening, when you start seeing stuff with Stone Choir or Nick Fuentes or stuff like that, then you know the brakes are off, it's full speed ahead, and here you go.

03:47

I've been told that some others are sort of tapping the brakes and going, yeah, I'm not sure we're gonna go that direction, and that would be great, that would be wonderful, but last night,

04:00

I finally made the statement on Twitter that this stuff is just absurd that Webben was posting, and he came back, and I'm out on this,

04:14

I'm gonna honor you. You don't honor someone when you teach the things you're teaching them and ignore the things that need to be said and done, and you're just going on your own way, you just decided you're your own ultimate authority here.

04:33

So you got the

04:38

Nick Fuentes stuff going on, and then someone mentions to me 45 minutes ago or so, did you see that he had

04:49

Taylor Marshall on to talk about the Red Heifer stuff and dispensationalism? And I'm like, what?

04:58

So I look it up, and it was like an hour and 48 minutes long, I haven't listened to an hour and 48 minutes.

05:05

But yeah, they had Taylor Marshall on. Now, Taylor Marshall, of course, blocked me a long time ago because he won't respond to criticism of Roman Catholicism, but he's far more

05:15

Roman Catholic than Francis was, and he is a convert, so he claims to have once believed the things that allegedly

05:25

Reformed people believe, and now denies all those things.

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So, you know, I would love to debate Taylor Marshall, he won't do it. We've invited him to do so, he says he won't appear at Protestant conferences.

05:41

He's very arrogant, very dismissive, and very bold, and very bold in proclaiming the worst of Roman Catholicism, the worst of Marian devotion, and all that kind of stuff.

05:57

And so there'd be only one reason to have Taylor Marshall on your program, and that is to discuss the gospel, not critique dispensationalism and red heifers.

06:08

You got nobody else that can do that? What in the world's going on here?

06:14

So I retweeted that, and I said, look, I ain't listening to all this.

06:23

Somebody who did, I'm sure that Joel got around to the gospel issues with Taylor Marshall, right?

06:32

Well, no, of course not. That's the problem. And I think one brother did come back and say, well, listen from about 103 for a few minutes.

06:48

And so I'm gonna put it right around there, and let's see what the conversation looks like, okay?

06:56

So, here, can you, is that gonna work for you?

07:03

All right, here we go. I have the potency at the political level to actually achieve something like Christendom.

07:11

So as a Catholic, I'm not just looking for Christian nationalism or Christian patriotism.

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I'm actually going, I'm looking for another level above that, which would be Christendom. So you have family,

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Christian family, Christian nation, Christian domus, Christendom. And Protestantism has never achieved that, and I don't even know if they want to.

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And I know you're post -mill, so that's awesome, but that's what you, you as a post -mill Protestant, that's what you should be looking for.

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It's not just a bunch of Christian nations, but a real federation of Christian nations called

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Christendom. Now, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to start and stop this. What? I don't know if I can start and stop this.

07:55

Twitter doesn't like doing that. So I may hit it again and it chokes, but I'll try it.

08:01

We'll see if it's gonna work. Roman Catholic integralism.

08:09

It seems very clear to me that the quote -unquote Christian nationalists who are buying, who are secretly listening to Stone Choir and are playing

08:20

White Boy Summer in the background and are playing footsie with the neo -Nazis and, you know, all that kind of stuff.

08:28

And these, these guys, their commitment to the Reformation is, is thin and I think easily abandoned over time.

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And I think you're gonna see a lot of these guys just following the consistency and swimming the

08:48

Tiber, though there's plenty of Roman Catholics don't even want them over there, to be honest with you, but be that as it may.

08:54

But here's, here's, this is, this has always been my problem with quote -unquote

08:59

Christendom. Whether you call it Christendom 1 .0 or Christendom 2 .0 or whatever you want to call it, this has always been my problem and always will be my problem.

09:10

I know the history and so did the

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Waldensians and a number of other people in Europe over the course of hundreds of years.

09:24

And so he's promoting Roman Catholic integralism. If you don't have the appropriate, deep, controlling commitment to the

09:36

Solas and to, especially to Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura, you're gonna collapse on these things or you're just gonna go along for the ride.

09:45

Let's, let's get, you know, once you, you want to have a big political party, then these gospel stuff, this gospel stuff gets in the way.

09:54

This gospel stuff gets in the way. That's, that's the problem. And so listen to Joel Webbin's response to this convert to Roman Catholicism.

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Former Protestant, he was a number of different kinds of Protestants along the way. That's sort of how that generally works.

10:15

But listen, listen to how he responds to what he says.

10:22

Yeah. I love your response on that. What, what, you said that you don't know if Protestantism has achieved it.

10:29

I guess my question would be what, what Catholic nations are currently achieving it? Not that have achieved it, but right now, because, because if the

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Reformation was the... Now, by the way, that's a good point. Because, because formerly

10:44

Protestant nation of Catholic nations, look what has happened in France.

10:51

Look what has happened. Well, okay. French has a French over Spain, Portugal, Italy. When I was in Italy a number of years ago, every town we drove through, the churches were boarded up.

11:04

They were boarded up. Roman Catholicism is suffering in its own backyard.

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So that is, that is an appropriate question. Because to try to say, as people do, to hang the

11:18

Enlightenment and secularism on the Protestant Reformation is not fair. That is not the natural outcome of what the

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Protestant Reformation was saying in regards to sola scriptura and supernatural worldview and all the rest of that stuff.

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And so when you look at the progressive Roman Catholic theology that has taken over the

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Vatican, and look at the progressive theology that destroyed the

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Protestant city -states, which was next mistake, they didn't abandon sacralism, there's very little difference between them.

11:58

And the same secular rot is happening in, in all of it. So it's, it's true to come back with that, but that wasn't nearly enough.

12:08

I understand, and I've gone down this road. I think there were problems with the Reformation. Like, to be frank, there is something powerful and like a glue that holds things together and secures things, provides a stability with the transcendence and objectivity of Catholicism.

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This is my body. This, this is my blood. There is something there.

12:36

You hear that? I just want you to, because someone who understands

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Roman Catholic mass and someone who understands the medieval synthesis, maybe not even the development that has taken place since then, but someone who understands the nature of what bound

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Europe together, understands the politics, understands the papacy, development of papacy, and the development of Eucharistic theology over time.

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You're not gonna be saying these things. Joel has a very surface -level knowledge of these things. He admits,

13:18

I'm graduating seminary, he's going on secondary information. The stuff that he and his guys have put out, we've pointed out truck -size holes in their argumentation.

13:30

They just don't know what they're talking about. But they need to produce a lot of content during the week, and so they just throw the stuff out there.

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But they make a lot of mistakes because they just don't know what they're talking about. And so what you're hearing here is what's attractive.

13:49

And I just wonder how many other people don't have a solid foundation, and so they're getting involved with all this

13:58

Christian nationalism stuff, and they're just gonna get sucked right into this stuff. They're just gonna get sucked right into the integralism, we don't need to be worried about all these secondary issues, we need to get together, and it's not like I haven't actually warned about that before.

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And you look at the Enlightenment, and you look at the Reformation, and there's a in which you could see both the

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Enlightenment and the Reformation as two sides of a singular coin. Baloney.

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Just put it simply, baloney. Oh, I know you can get all sorts of secular writers that want to say that, but baloney, if you happen to understand the

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Reformation and continue to preach the Reformation today. If you're preaching the Reformation today, you do not say things like this. You don't say things like this.

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You understand the difference. The subjectivity and relativism that comes in with everything becoming merely a symbol.

14:54

Baptists, I think, are notoriously terrible when it comes to the Sacrament of the Supper. They've gone beyond Calvin's view.

15:02

They've gone beyond anything else to where it's a mere memorial. Well, okay, look, the 1689

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London Confession basically follows Calvin at that point. It's a much deeper theology than you have in most independent fundamentalist

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Baptist churches, certainly what I was raised with. Much deeper theology. Read chapter 30 of the London Baptist Confession for yourself.

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There is an emphasis on Christ's presence with his people that is a part of the confessional statement.

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So that is a true statement in and of itself, but why not point that out?

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And why not then turn around and say, now, of course, the problem that Rome has, and he's not going to do that because he's got

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Taylor Marshall sitting there. That's the problem. But you can't say a word of criticism about the mass, the never -perfecting, never -finished, never -completed blasphemy on the finished work of Christ.

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Look, if you ever put yourself in a position where you can't speak that truth, you're in some place you never should have gone in the first place.

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That's a fact. That's a fact. It's simply a remembrance.

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Oh, by the way, by the way, that's called the Zwinglian view. We can argue whether that was really as far as Zwingli really went all that far, but it's not like there wasn't some historical precedent to even the strictly memorialist view outside at the time of the

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Reformation, too. But there's no particular special presence of Christ even with the sacraments, much less in the sacraments.

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And so, I understand the drawbacks of Protestantism.

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I think you'd be hard -pressed to find a more sympathetic Protestant than myself as I've been thinking about these things.

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Okay. Okay. Who was mocking me for a long period of time when

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I kept trying to say, this is where this goes, that there are foundational problems here, that the logical following through of the foundations means you're going to start seeing this argument and that.

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Baptists are constantly, oh, you know, like, but if we have Christian nationalism, they're going to drown us, you know, because we won't baptize our babies.

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And I'm like, one, I don't think that'll happen. Two, okay, like, let's look at it.

18:08

Let's, because we have history. We can go back and look like, okay, 200 Baptists are drowned? 200 a day?

18:15

No. 200 a year? 200, you know. Now, I'm sorry,

18:20

Joel Webben is not a scholar of anything and certainly not of church history. Okay. And never will be.

18:27

I don't care if he takes 10 ,000 hours to finally figure out whether the Holocaust actually happened or not. Where's he getting this number?

18:34

He's not going to bother to tell us. And he didn't take 10 ,000 hours to, you know, to do the research.

18:43

But he's talking about me and he's talking about the examples I've given, but they won't talk about those examples, will they?

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They won't talk about Fritz Erba. They've not stood in the Wartburg Castle and looked down the terror hole and thought about that man down there for years on end.

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And it wasn't the Catholics that did it, but it was sacralists that did it. And how many people died that were never recorded?

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You can't give me a number. Stop pretending, Joel, to talk about stuff that you are utterly ignorant about.

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Just stop it. It's embarrassing. It truly is. You don't know.

19:33

You wouldn't even know what sources to look at. My goodness. And it doesn't touch the issue, does it?

19:43

I mean, it sort of sounds like you're doing the same. Well, you know, it might not have been 6 million Jews. It might have been 4 million Jews or only 2 million

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Jews or it's only 200 Baptists. Oh, let's not worry about the principle. Let's only worry about the numbers.

19:58

Oh, if only someone had warned these guys that this is where they were going to end up going.

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And we murdered a million babies in their mother's wombs annually in one country.

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What the hell are you talking about? Oh, they might drown, you know, like a dozen

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Baptists might get drowned. Even John Bunyan. I love John Bunyan. I love Pilgrim's Progress. You probably like Pilgrim's Progress, you know, at least elements of it.

20:27

And yet at the same time... Can you imagine what John Bunyan would do with Joel Webben? Can you imagine if Joel Webben walked into John Bunyan's prison cell and started saying the things that he's saying now?

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I don't think John Bunyan was given two fits of physical wrath, but...

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I can look at that and say, you know what? The Christendom, and I've said this publicly and I have no problem saying it again. The Christendom that I'm fighting for, if it's achieved,

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I won't be allowed to do what I'm currently doing. A guy like me who never finished seminary in Christendom, right now, the reason why people listen to Joel Webben is because we have no idea how bad it is out there, how bad things really are.

21:23

Now remember, this seems to be a meme with Joel. Remember, it was, what, eight months ago that he, at some of the many conferences, basically said, things are so bad,

21:39

I'm the best we've got. Now he tried to make it self -effacing, and that's terrible because I'm horrible, but I'm the best we've got.

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And all of us are sitting out here going, no, no, not really.

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But this is this idea that I won't do this because there'll be much better people in Christendom.

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What would be required for that to happen? That's the thing that I just,

22:08

I'm listening to all these Christian nationalists talking about, what we need to do right now.

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Folks, listen to me. You know what you need to do right now? You need to be used to change the hearts and minds of the people in this nation.

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You don't need to be talking about laws. You don't need to be talking about taking the vote away from this person or that person.

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The only way any of this is ever going to have any meaning whatsoever is if all of a sudden you have

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Christian people. And how do you get them? You don't do it through the legislature.

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You do it through the gospel. Oh, that's not going to sell, is it? Well, not books, too much work, too much patience.

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If Christendom, like Bunyan said this, in Pilgrim's Frog, if religion was walking in her glass slippers and well -adorned and applauded by the masses, then there actually would be standards for who's a minister.

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And also, there would probably be some standards for who's allowed to have a YouTube channel with 125 ,000 people tuning in and listening, and some credentials would be necessary.

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And the Christendom that I'm fighting for, I recognize, because people, they think it's a gotcha. Like, well, you wouldn't even, like, correct.

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I would rather, hey, Joel, we love you. Thanks for being a top tard in the

23:43

Lord's army, you know, during the Dark Ages. But now that we've got things under control, that, you know, we don't need the retards, you know, running, you know, large accounts and teaching the masses anymore.

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And we're going to have this guy who's versed in Greek and versed in Latin. And so how come you guys don't listen to the people that are versed in Greek and Latin right now, who've been trying to tell you you're going the wrong direction?

24:10

You're also going to just change your attitudes? No, the people that aren't blown about by every wind of doctrine, that see a bigger picture than you seem to, and certainly have a much better grasp on history than you do.

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How come? I don't, what's going to change that's going to make that happen?

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And literally my response would be, I'm done. Okay. Thank you.

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You can take it from here. Like I was running the baton, running like this, like Forrest Gump, you know, and now we've got like a world -class, you know, trained

24:45

Olympian taking it. Praise God. Praise God. So I, so my point is, I, I recognize like, even with John Bunyan, like I look at that and I think

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I love John Bunyan. And yet it's like, well, he was in prison.

25:00

He could have walked out of prison at any moment. He just needed to get his papers. He needed to get his credentials and he refused to do it, you know?

25:08

And, and so I look at that and I'm... And why did he refuse to do it? What, what's, what's, what's the issue?

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State -controlled religion. State -controlled religion that overrides biblical teaching.

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This man's not a Baptist. I don't see a single reason why

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Joel Webben still calls himself a Baptist. Not a one. The things he has said on almost every single issue.

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I, I don't, I don't see it. Why? Why? He just needed to get his credentials.

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That means he needed to submit to the state church, including the false teachings of that state church.

25:55

Yeah. So there you go. That's, um, I mean,

26:02

I'm sure there's, I'm sure there's, I'm sure there's more. I'm almost tempted now to download it and, uh, listen to it.

26:11

I've got two hours worth of driving to do this afternoon, I guess maybe I could get to it then.

26:16

Though I think doing that in rush hour traffic at 110 degrees in the shade, isn't really the best way to do it.

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What? You're, you're in there. I'm just, I'm listening to him and talking about how, you know, that whole shoo,

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I'll be, it'll all be done. And I'm thinking to myself through every single statement he makes, I keep thinking, no, not really.

26:36

No, not really. No, pretty hard to believe. Pretty hard to believe.

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No two ways about it. Yeah. All right. Well, there went half the program right there.

26:46

Thanks a lot. Um, but, uh, thanks to people that threw that my direction. Gotta get to some other things.

26:54

Um, there is a, uh, a tweet that I specifically said

27:04

I'm going to respond to. And it is interesting. The Roman Catholics are involved in pretty much everything

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I'm going to be talking about, um, today. Um, but a fellow by the name of unapologetics, a

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Catholic revert, um, unapologetics posted a meme,

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I guess. Uh, uh, let me see here.

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Uh, open image in new tab, drag the image over here and go like that.

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And that's about the best we can do for now. Um, here's Buzz Lightyear and, uh, he's, uh, in the toy store there.

27:57

And, um, my non -denominational church is the only church actually following the

28:02

Bible alone. Now, immediately that's who says that? I mean, I, I suppose there might be some really super duper naive, ignorant people that would say something like that, but, um, that's a straw man in of itself.

28:17

But what I wanted you to see was what's listed down below here. It's a little bit hard to see. Wait a minute.

28:23

Ah, okay. Non -denominational church, two blocks away,

28:29

Unitarians, Presbyterians, Seventh -day Adventists, African Methodists, Episcopalians, Baptists, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Anglicans, Congregationalists, Quakers, Assemblies of God, Church of Christ, Messianic Jews, Mennonites, Black Hebrew Israelites, Jehovah's Witnesses, Methodists, and Amish.

28:49

Okay. Um, yeah, this is what

28:54

I wanted to point out. This is the same old, same old uh, 40 ,000, 45 ,000, 47 ,000.

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It keeps growing every year. Denominations dribble that we have to deal with about every six months and point out that, you know, that one encyclopedia resource, uh, that we spent money on buying, uh, electronically anyways, that talks about all the different denominations.

29:25

What's it including? Um, how many of these groups listed here actually even profess to believe in Sola Scriptura?

29:37

Do Black Hebrew Israelites believe in Sola Scriptura? Of course not. Do Jehovah's Witnesses? Well, sort of.

29:43

They've got the Watchtower Rattling Track Society. Jehovah's Faithful and Discreet Slave. What are you talking about? Um, the, um,

29:52

Seventh -day Adventists. They got Ellen G. White. Unitarians. They're not even Trinitarian. So, what you've, how many of these people, how many

30:02

Pentecostals could define Sola Scriptura for you, let alone how many Pentecostal denominations literally seek to practice

30:11

Sola Scriptura? I mean, many of them literally have a theology that promotes the idea of continuing revelation.

30:20

Um, which Anglicans? Which Lutherans? Which Presbyterians? I mean,

30:27

I have a, I have a video queued up over here of some wild -eyed leftist minister chick, uh, talking about how atonement theories are no longer relevant in our modern age, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

30:44

I have Lutheran brothers in the faith, but I have

30:50

ELCA Lutheran ministers who are my enemies in the faith. And I have all sorts of Presbyterian brothers in the faith, but they're, they are the same ones who will say that there are all sorts of Presbyterian quote -unquote ministers who are their enemies in the faith and in the gospel.

31:10

And how many different kinds of Baptists are there? I'll say the same thing for that. There are all sorts of,

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I mean, you've got some of the most left -wing Baptists on the planet that wouldn't recognize biblical

31:24

Christianity if it walked up and slapped them in the face. So when you get this kind of thing, now obviously this, this is a

31:33

Catholic person who would, who does not want to put up here all the different groups within the

31:40

Roman Catholicism. They don't want to put up here the stuff that you will find. Yeah, thank you for scanning my hard drive.

31:47

I hate Windows. Um, they, they, they don't want to put up all the people you, the viewpoints you can find over at Boston College and the wide, wide, wide, wide, wide, wide, wide spectrum of belief that comes from allegedly people following the

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Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church. You don't solve the problem. You have the problem.

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You only exacerbate it. But this is the kind of stuff that's out there. I, I understand that people don't think about it and they don't go there and they don't, haven't heard the other side.

32:23

I get it. You can take it down. Um, all that kind of stuff. Uh, the

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Amish however, by the way, uh, do have a, an amazing track record as far as health is concerned.

32:35

So we'll give the, we'll give the Amish a, uh, a real, a real, uh, um, thing there.

32:42

I'm not, I'm not going to do the chick with the, um, um, yeah, no, not going to do that.

32:49

Um, okay. Where did I put that thing? Is it over here? Oh, oh, um, okay.

32:57

All right. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I did want to cover this. I did leave a note on this video that I was going to cover on the program today.

33:06

So I need to do that. So I apologize. Besides that, I'm not sure where I put the other Roman Catholic thing

33:12

I was going to be doing, but anyway, um, a friend of mine sent this to me, uh, yesterday, day for yesterday.

33:25

Said, had I seen it? I said, no, of course not. And, um, listen to it.

33:30

It's only two minutes long. That's what makes it easier to respond to anyway. But it's an argument that I, uh, totally blew the grammar in John 1 .1.

33:41

And so I'm interested when someone says something along those lines, especially since I'm going to be debating Unitarian in a couple of weeks on John 1 .1

33:49

through 18, I'd like to know what's being said. And one of the things that it illustrated was online.

34:01

When semi -technical topics are being addressed, a lot of people are, um, influenced by, convinced by, argumentation that is made confidently, but not necessarily competently.

34:24

There's a difference between confident and competent. And there's all sorts of terms that have specific meanings that frequently get all mixed up.

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So for example, um, I was listening to Dale Tuggy, who I'll be debating. And at one point in one of his presentations on the prologue of John, he confused, um,

34:51

Docetism and Apollinarianism. Now, how many of you sitting in the studio audience right now, uh, if you were to be given a multiple choice quiz or fill in the blank or essay or oral answer, um, would feel confident that you would not confuse

35:15

Docetism and Apollinarianism? Let's be honest.

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Both terms are technical, historical, church history terms that have specific technical

35:31

Christological meanings. And I would estimate that today, anyways, 99 .85

35:40

% of all evangelicals would not be able to tell you what Docetism is and what

35:46

Apollinarianism is. Despite the best efforts of yours, truly, we've, we've done hours and hours and hours and hours on the program, on the various early

35:59

Christological heresies and everything else. So, um, so it, you know, it happens.

36:09

Um, it doesn't mean that everything else a person says is an error, but Dr. Tuggy was an error about that.

36:16

Um, and this guy says, I've missed the grammar. Well, the problem is his argument has nothing to do with grammar.

36:24

And that's what a lot of people talk about. Um, well, let, let's go ahead and play it and then

36:33

I'll, I'll go back and, you know, maybe I'll put the Greek up and we can look at it, um, briefly, but let's, um, let's see what we got here.

36:42

When John speaks of the logos, the word, he uses the imperfect form of I, me, ain.

36:53

So in the beginning was the word, an imperfect does not point to a point of origin.

37:00

Does not point to a beginning. As far back as you push the beginning, the word is already in existence.

37:06

The prologue of John absolutely points to a beginning of the one called logos. In the beginning was the word, ain, a stative verb in the imperfect tense expressing existence or state of being.

37:17

In John's prologue, it indicates that the logos existed. The imperfect tense points to a past finite period of time.

37:24

Therefore the beginning must be understood as a span of time in which the logos existed. Crucially, the imperfect tense refers to a finite time and cannot by itself imply eternity past.

37:35

Trinitarians are simply wrong here and they are abusing the grammar for their own agenda. And the word was prostantheion, was with God.

37:44

Again, eternal relationship. No, it doesn't demand an eternal relationship. Keep reading. Verses three and four suggest an origin of life for the one called logos.

37:53

O yeganin, enophtho, zoein. That life itself originated in the sun. Trinitarians alter the punctuation of John 1 verses 3 and 4, but understood properly,

38:03

John explicitly teaches an origin of the one called logos as a new life which did not exist before.

38:08

John is not merely indicating that logos was with God, external to God in the beginning of creation week, but he originated as a new life from God at that time.

38:17

And the word was God as to his nature, deity, eternal. Not something that starts in time.

38:24

That's just your philosophical conjecture, Dr. White. The father -son relationship consistently uses the language of procreation, which demands an origin in time that the father precedes the son in time.

38:36

Begotten, only begotten of the father and only begotten son are devoid of any meaning according to your view.

38:41

Sorry, your non -literal metaphorical son does not pass the acid test of analysis.

38:48

Okay, so I don't know who this guy is. He's some Unitarian. You know,

38:53

I can't tell you anything more about him than that. Go ahead and pull that down. But when he says, when he talks about grammar, grammar would have been, no, you're incorrect.

39:10

It's not the imperfect form of I mean, but he doesn't say that. It is. He is insisting that there is something in the context, something in the usage in John 1 .1

39:26

that indicates that the logos is created. So here's the

39:33

Greek again. And here is the point that I was making rather quickly. And that is when

39:39

John refers to the logos in the prologue, in the beginning was the word.

39:46

So was is the imperfect indicative form of I mean,

39:55

I mean, is one of a couple of Greek verbs of existence of being.

40:04

And so while there are imperfects that when you study the what's called the syntactical use of the imperfect, which if you want to delve more into this,

40:21

Daniel Wallace's syntactical grammar will go through all this for you.

40:27

It's normally a second year study. So when you're in second year Greek, this is what you go through in studying syntax and things like that.

40:35

As I've explained to people before, you don't want to necessarily tell first year Greek students this is coming because you get to the end of first year

40:44

Greek and you're really proud of yourself that you now recognize a genitive ablative form versus a locative instrumental dative form if you learn the eight case system or five case agenda versus dative.

40:59

And then again, the second year you discover there's 12 different types of genitives and six different types of ablatives and all this other kind of stuff.

41:06

And if you knew that in first year, you'd probably just give up and just like, too much.

41:11

I'm not going to ever get this. But syntax is the grammatical form is objective.

41:23

So as I explained to brother Ventilacion, hatheos and thantheon are the same word.

41:32

They are just functioning differently in the sentence. One is nominative and one is accusative, nominative, singular, accusative.

41:41

But the word hasn't changed. Many languages, English not really being one of them, but many languages by the form of the word tell you how it's functioning in the sentence.

41:53

It gives you greater clarity in communicating ideas. And so syntax, the grammar, whether it's a nominative or genitive, whether it's a imperfect or an aorist or a pluperfect or whatever, those are determined by the form of the word.

42:15

That's an objective reality, even though there are some words that can take the same form.

42:21

And so you have to argue your case as to how it's functioning in a particular instance.

42:28

Syntax becomes more interpretational because you're looking at how, for example, the standard meaning of the imperfect is continuous action in the past over against an aorist, which is just a punctiliar statement of something happened.

42:54

Normally it's in the past and have to be. There's various kinds of uses that can refer to timeless events and things like that.

43:04

But these are general differences. So the imperfect and imperfect, you have to be able to differentiate them.

43:12

And the primary difference is the timeframe where they are. And since almost all the imperfects in the

43:20

New Testament are in the indicative, then the timeframe is part of the statement, part of the use.

43:29

So anyway, but then once you get into the imperfects, there are different kinds of imperfects. So there are inceptive imperfects, where you do have a concept of beginning.

43:42

You have iterative imperfects, where you would have something along the lines of, he was teaching them on the second day of the week with regularity.

43:57

Now, it doesn't mean he was teaching continuously, but in an iterative sense, he was teaching on the second day of the week regularly in the past.

44:07

Now, a lot of these are limited primarily to certain forms. Elegant in narrative, he was saying, is one that is very, very common.

44:19

None of these actually have almost anything to do with the use of aim and the verb of being, which is what you have in John 1 .1.

44:30

So he's making a positive assertion that there is something in the utilization of this imperfect that actually points to a beginning origin.

44:42

And notice he said, creation week. Where does he get that? You see, my assertion was that whatever beginning you want to assign to John 1 .1,

44:53

the word already is. That's the reason for the use of aim, because the imperfect does not in and of itself point to a point of origin.

45:08

That would be the heiress. And John proves this. I'm pretty certain that he didn't just didn't cover this or maybe didn't understand it.

45:16

I don't know. But my point was demonstrating that when

45:24

John refers to the Logos, he uses the imperfect form of aim.

45:30

But then when he gets down, so this one was, in the beginning, this one was in the beginning with God.

45:40

This one who is the Logos, was with God. So here when

45:50

John refers to created things, in this case, everything, everything else, all things were made through him.

46:00

He uses the heiress of Ginnemi. And the heiress of Ginnemi is a simpler statement of action than the imperfect is.

46:14

There isn't any emphasis upon continuous action in the past, but it is a point of origin.

46:22

All things were made through him. It does not say that the

46:27

Logos was made. And that's his point. He's trying to say that the Logos himself was made.

46:34

He may not say that from John 1. He may try to steal it from someplace else.

46:41

And apart from him, apart from the Logos, was not made anything which was made.

46:47

Now you can say, well, no, we need to punctuate it and say that which was made in him was life. Okay, who's the source of life?

46:55

Who's the life maker? Yahweh. I mean, that's, and it says in him was life.

47:09

Interestingly enough, there is a textual variant there that uses Esten, so we keep that in mind.

47:15

But in him was life, and the life was imperfect, the light of man.

47:20

So every time he's talking about the Logos, ain, ain, ain, ain, ain, and then when he talks about created things, he uses another form that allows for the idea of origination.

47:33

But for example, here's a man, John. What does he use? Agenata. There was a man.

47:40

There became a man sent from God named John. And so all that changes.

47:50

So he was in the world, was, and the world was made,

47:56

Eris of Ginnomai, through him, and the world did not know him. Finally, it changes when you get down to verse 14.

48:05

And the word sarks, again, atop became flesh, not the word was flesh.

48:15

Now, if the author himself has been specific in utilizing the imperfect form of I -me, of the

48:24

Logos, all the way through to this point, and uses the Eris of Ginnomai all the way through to this point, he's telling us something.

48:36

Because when you get to verse 14, it changes. Logos sarks

48:44

Agenata and dwelt amongst us. Here you have the incarnation.

48:51

The word became flesh and dwelt amongst us. As we will see in the debate, this makes no sense if the

49:02

Logos is simply an attribute of God. God's attributes do not become human beings who dwell amongst us.

49:11

And God's omnipotence became flesh. What? Huh?

49:17

No. That's absurd, but that's what we will be told. And we beheld his glory, the glories of the unique one from the

49:27

Father. He says, oh, you don't have any category for only begotten Noah. We most certainly do.

49:33

Because this monogamous theos in John 118 is a unique God.

49:40

And if you want to say, well, that means origin in time. Okay, you're taking a creaturely category and forcing it into the eternal realm about the one who created all things.

49:51

You have it backwards. If you read it the way it's written, the one who's eternally existed created all things, then entered into his own creation.

50:01

You have to turn it backwards to make it sound silly, but that's because you don't believe what the Bible is actually saying. So John gives us the interpretive key as to what he's doing with Aen and with Agenata in the prologue of John.

50:16

So there wasn't any error. And there's nothing and nothing up here even begins to suggest, even if you read it as ha -geganen en auto zoe aen, and you see there's a punctuation variant here.

50:38

So even if you read it as an apart from him was nothing made, that which was made in him was life and the life was the light of men, that does not make the logos the life that was created.

50:55

It's in him was life, imperfect. Not in him became life.

51:00

That would have to be Agenata. So this man is the one who's twisting the scripture. This man's the one who's ignoring what

51:06

John says. This man's the one who's ignoring the key of interpretation that John himself provides.

51:14

Now, again, I have no idea who he is. I looked a little bit briefly at his channel.

51:22

He's clearly some type of Unitarian, anti -Trinitarian, but he was posting Sam Shamoon stuff. I don't, didn't make any sense.

51:31

I wasn't going to sit there and do the hour's worth of reading all this stuff to come up with this. But the point is this, you know, he sat there and anybody who's at least done really well in first year, maybe through second year, can sit here and say

51:47

Panta de Autu, Agenata, Kaikouras Autu, Agenata, Udehen, Hagegenen, you can sit there and you can read it.

51:55

And that doesn't mean you understand what you're saying, but it sounds good. And that's what he did.

52:02

And he uses a slightly different pronunciation system, but who cares? That doesn't mean what he's saying is right.

52:09

And the challenge that we have with the speed of communication and the complete lack of truth filtering on the internet is that we're all left in many instances going, what can

52:36

I trust? Where did this information come from? You know,

52:42

I've had conversations with Grok, but that's the one

52:47

I use. I don't use chat, GBT. We had it for a little while. It was whatever. Everybody's got their little favorite, but conversations with Grok, it had basically been, look, your answers can never be superior to the material upon which you were trained.

53:10

That forms the very matrix of your knowledge, your database.

53:18

And I've talked about how previous iterations of Grok just made some major faux pas in areas that I know because I've taught them for decades.

53:31

Now, Grok was always very kind to accept the correction, though I don't know that the acceptance made any long -term benefit for Grok's database.

53:44

But as it may, that's the issue.

53:51

Who gets to determine what data is going to be granted a high, even when with Grok 4, they were talking about this analysis of the data, try to get better data.

54:04

Who makes that decision? The AI can't make that decision. That's where the problem lies.

54:15

And so when you hear someone like this confidently making these statements, for a lot of folks, it's like, how do

54:22

I know? And that's really why you need to be a part of a church as Christ established it, which is not

54:31

Rome, by the way, and it's not Constantinople. Local elders,

54:39

Fellowship of the Saints, regular meeting, preaching the word, that kind of thing.

54:44

But yeah, I understand just how astonishingly challenging this kind of stuff is going to be in the future.

54:52

It is right now. It is right now. And I don't care what

55:00

AI does. There will never be a way to replace the wisdom that comes from doing the hard work of learning and teaching consistently over time.

55:19

You just can't replace it. You can't replace it. You can't do it. So there you go.

55:25

I wanted to respond to that and demonstrate the errors in it, and it seemed to fit with what's coming up.

55:33

Just here in the last three minutes, this just popped up. This just posted says 13 seconds ago.

55:44

What's this? Someone's saying an outstanding deal today.

55:52

Yeah, it's nice to see during the program. Um, Edward Penton, a

55:57

Roman Catholic that I follow, just posted this from vaticannews .va.

56:04

So this is from the current Pope. Pope urges moral theologians to take Saint Alphonsus Liguri as their model.

56:17

Now, most Protestants are sitting there staring at the computer screen going, yeah.

56:25

So what does that have to do with anything? I don't have it in here right now.

56:31

I did. I had it. I had it here. Uh, no, no.

56:38

Put it in the other room. Um, but I had, I showed it to you within the past three months.

56:44

Liguri's most famous work. Alphonsus Liguri is a doctor of the church, like Thomas Aquinas, uh, or like now

56:54

John Henry Cardinal Newman and his most famous work with the most editions that have been printed, 800 last time

57:03

I counted. I don't know what it is now. I should find out. Um, the glories of Mary.

57:10

I've read to you from it. It turns a Christian's stomach. It is the constant, every page, trust yourself to Mary.

57:22

She will appease Jesus and gain you salvation, but you will be lost if you do not entrust your soul to Mary.

57:30

The whole book is about over and over and over again, how you need to dedicate yourself to Mary, dedicate yourself.

57:37

And here's the American Pope. Pope urges moral theologians to take

57:44

Saint Alphonsus Liguri and by the way, Liguri is L -I -G -U -O -R.

57:50

That's O -R -I. That's normal. Most of us have spelled would switch the

57:56

O and the U, um, to take Saint Alphonsus Liguri as their model, Vatican news.

58:04

Okay. Um, that's, um, that's interesting. That's, um, that's very interesting.

58:12

Okay. Well, I'm sure we, I'm sure Rich, you'll get lots and lots of very kind emails and feedback today.

58:22

Nope. You don't think so. What's that? You have firewalls up while I'm talking about, you know, you know, maybe some phone calls or some emails or whatever, who knows?

58:37

Uh, we made, I'm sure lots of, lots of people very unhappy today. They don't call me.

58:44

Yeah. They're not there. They're not going to get through to me and, and you ain't going to give them any satisfaction at all.

58:50

So yeah, I can understand that. But anyways, it had to be said, had to be done. Thanks for watching the program today.

58:56

Uh, as we mentioned, um, next week, pick up the RV packing.

59:03

Uh, I've got to get my kitten in to get them neutered before I leave. Poor thing.

59:08

Don't anybody tell him that. Um, and, uh, just so much stuff. I don't know how I'm getting it all done.