Uncle Vern

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said,.

�But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you. In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King. Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Studio Banter and Concert Talk

Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry. I just got done saying to Pastor Steve, who�s here, at Tuesday Guy, at the Tuesday Guy, �Steve, I have no idea what we�re going to say, but let�s go. Never confess that.

And then you took your fingers, it seemed like you made them into one clump, and then you put it on your forehead, and then on your sternum, and then what was that all about?

It was a clump of theology.

What�s that one song, somebody like, �Lump, she�s in my head, da-na-na-na-na�? I think you�re making it up. There is no song. Hey, the guy for English Beat, Rankin Roger, Roger died yesterday, yeah.

Did he? Dave Whelan, I think, was the white guy, the black guy was Rankin Roger, �56, I think, died of cancer. Wow. So we�re going to have to get a new song. �Mirror in the Bathroom, I guess, isn�t going to work.

Well, you know, you are probably the master of all the groups that never amounted to anything, so I� English Beat, General Public?

Yeah, awesome, awesome band. Oh, well, this is going to be interesting. Steve, any concerts that you�re going to see here soon?

Oh, well, �Leanoid and Friends. Oh, okay, that�ll be good.

What is that? Is that, like, I know what a solenoid is, but what�s a leanoid?

I don�t really know, except for he�s, like, a Russian immigrant. They�re just a bunch of immigrants who taught themselves to play Chicago songs. And is it good? Well, yeah, I�ve watched them on YouTube and stuff like that, they�re pretty good.

Do other theologians worldwide, renowned theologians listen to him?

Only the best theologians, so, you know, that�s why I thought I have the opportunity to go with Phil, you know, Phil Johnson and his wife Darlene, they�re going to be in the audience anyway. They�ll probably be waving at us from the front row.

Oh, yeah, they got the best seats. Yeah, we�ll be in the back, actually we�re in the second row.

I actually heard there�s going to be the concert and then Phil�s going to ask some.

Q &As afterwards. Oh, yeah, sure, sure he is. But they have to be framed in terms of a Chicago song.

By the way, Todd Friel and Phil Johnson were just on Too Wretched for Radio and Phil described the background lead up to questions and then the postscript to the social justice Q &A at the Shepherd�s Conference 2019.

I found that interesting. I found it very interesting and, you know, it�s almost like I wish they would have released that as an addendum to the original, you know, Q &A. Just because, you know, I think some people thought, well, Phil was harsh and I just thought, you know, he did a good job of explaining what he was doing and why he was doing it and maybe even saying, you know, in retrospect, maybe I shouldn�t have pushed Mueller quite so hard because he was the only one who didn�t really know because he wasn�t in the green room beforehand, you know, talking about these things.

He didn�t really know we were going to ask those and I should have probably backed off a little.

Did he not say something like he knew some of the questions or some of the comments, but it wasn�t fleshed out in his presence along with all the other guys because he was. Yeah.

Because they had a fairly extensive conversation about what they were going to do and, you know, I have to agree with Phil, though. I just really thought it was a missed opportunity for everybody to just kind of state their position.

I mean, they�re all friends. You know, let�s just not get into a debate, but let�s just kind of say where we all are on this so that people can understand, yes, we have differences, but in the big picture, you know, we�re not enemies.

Yeah, because MacArthur could have said, �This is not an issue. This is Los Angeles. This is what�s happened. Here�s how I�ve ministered in the black community, et cetera, et cetera. This is the makeup of our church, and here�s where I come from.

And Debra could have said, �Here�s where I come from. I�m in D .C. and my average congregational member is 29 years old, black Democrat, you know, political caucus, blah, blah, blah. And then everybody could have said, and Moeller could have said, �I�m not.

If I just smash all these issues of social justice and just say they don�t matter, then the progressives are going to gain a ground and they�re going to try to take over the seminary or whatever. That would have been good, huh?

Yeah. I think it would have been very instructive and helpful, you know, instead of like, it was kind of hold your breath TV, you know.

And fascinating that Phil said it�s going to be up online, everybody saying, �Oh, they were scrubbed. And he said, �I think the video is going to be up. Yeah. That�s what he said.

I guess we�ll see when it pops up, you know, maybe all of a sudden Moeller will be less upset. Like, there�ll just be a little, I don�t know, some trickeration in the video and all of a sudden he�ll be like, �Totally cool.

Yeah. Oh, that�s a good question, Phil.

Books, Music, and Meeting Colbie Caillat

Steve, I have this thing in front of me. It�s just got a Tim Keller book, The Prodigal Prophet, Jonah and the Mystery of God�s Mercy. Have you ever read any books by Tim Keller?

I have not. You know, blog posts, Twitter feed, stuff like that, but I�ve never read a book by Tim Keller because frankly, you know, in your paradigm, good, better, best or bad, I usually.

Avoid Keller. It is interesting to think in general, you�ve got to make choices when it comes to books and you only have so much time. And for me, at least, I�m going back to a lot of the classics. Some of them I reread and some of them I didn�t even know existed.

Like Robin Hood, you know?

Well, yeah. I know. The classics. Sherlock Holmes, other classics.

You know, Hound of the Baskervilles. Classic. Oh, speaking of concerts, you�ll like this. You know, Colby Calley, she sang songs like Bubbly and, you know, I don�t know, kind of love songs, surfer Jack Johnson kind of deal.

I actually know who she is as opposed to the English beat.

Right. And she has a country band now with her husband and another girl and someone else and it�s called, I think, Go West. Something like that. Go West. Did you know that? Yeah. And so they advertised on New Year�s, sorry, what�s the holiday, St. Patrick�s Day in Boston.

And my daughter went with Deb at church. Oh, yeah. And they got there and there wasn�t very many people and got pictures with Colby and all that stuff. And there�s like 25 people there for the special show.

They did 15 minutes of songs and then they went on their merry way. Wow. I thought she, Colby, was nice to my daughter. That makes me like her. Good. Yeah. And she�s met her before, hasn�t she? She has.

She went into the trailer with her outside of some venue in San Fran. So they�re like buddies now. I know. I think she�s going to do special music at the church this Sunday. Oh, nice. I think my girls actually sent her a tract and a Bible and they�re like, �Oh, we�d love to have Colby get saved.

Not because she could change the music world, but she just seems like a dear person. But when you get to meet someone, you want them to know the Lord and be forgiven and reconciled.

And she can do special music at BBC. She could.

That�s exactly right. Anything else going on with you in life and in the news? What are you teaching on Sundays here at Bethlehem Bible Church at The Adult?

1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith. This week we�ll be talking about the communion of saints, the saints.

The London Baptist Confession on Justification and Active Obedience

Okay. So far as you�ve gone through the London Baptist Confession, what�s been the greatest thing that you�ve seen in it? Something new, something fleshed out well, something written well. And then what�s the thing that you disagree with the most?

Boy, that�s hard.

That�s really hard. I mean, I�m just not, I�m not encyclopedic like that. I mean, I have 200 and some odd pages of notes and, you know, to ask me what the best and the worst was, I really, I mean, what I�ve really enjoyed is how biblical it is, you know, how solidly it leans on scripture, even, you know, sure, they crib from the Westminster Confession of Faith, but there�s a lot of variations too.

I mean, I�ve been using R .C. and I�ve been using another book. The problem is, you know, when it goes completely like the last chapter was on the church, well, it�s kind of, it was kind of pointless using anything from anybody who wrote from the Westminster Confession of Faith point of view, because completely different concept of ecclesiology.

So, you know, not the focus on the local church and the autonomy of it and, you know, those kind of things. So, not very helpful there.

29 London Baptist Confession 1689 chapter 11 of justification. �Those whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth, not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous.

Pete. Okay, that, it just makes me, even that just reminds me that how anti-Catholic, you know, the confession is, like this last Sunday, you know, it refers to churches that have gone astray as synagogues of Satan, which I think, you know, that's an underused phrase, a biblical phrase, and you know, just this woman, so-called Lutheran minister, Bowles something, and just the things that she has been doing, and I'm like, that is an example of a synagogue of Satan today.

But when they wrote that, they were referring to Rome, to Rome, you know? Not by infusing Pete. Because it's so anti-Bible, you know? The Roman Catholic system is very contra the Bible, and people don't often know that.

�Not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone. Not by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them as their righteousness, but by imputing Christ's active obedience unto the whole law, and past civil obedience in his death for their whole and soul righteousness, they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness by faith, which faith they have not of themselves.

It is the gift of God. So, that is so good. I think that's even more detailed than Westminster on active obedience.

Pete. It's so clear, and you know, it should be something that any Protestant should be able to nod their head to, right? I mean, even Presbyterians would say, yep, yeah, they sure got that right in the London Baptist Confession of Faith.

Pete. The foil was Rome back in those days, in the 1640s for the Westminster Confession, and now the 1689. I think it was the first, 1644 was the London Baptist, the first confession, I think. That's right.

Pete And then the second one was actually written in 1677, but they couldn't publish it because it was against the law. Pete Really? Pete Yeah. I didn't know that. Pete That's why it couldn't, there had to be a law passed through Parliament before they could publish it.

Pete Okay.

I forgot what I was going to say then. Oh, but it's interesting when you listen to new perspectives, when you listen to these final justification kind of folks, I want them to read this because the foil for 1689 was Rome, and these guys sound like the Roman Catholic when it comes to it.

They don't want people to go crazy and go off the deep end, so you have to have this not initial justification, which can never be revoked, but there's a final justification based on your obedience. It's interesting, or any other evangelical obedience to them as their righteousness.

Pete Can't do it.

I do have to back up for just a second though. You said Rome was the foil. You remember when you started this show and you said, Steve, I want you to be the foil for me? Well, now Rome was the foil for the 1689.

So, Rome was the enemy. And so, now I'm like, all these years later, you've just finally revealed to me that I'm the enemy of this. Steve I tipped my hand to you.

Pete Well, I obviously picked the wrong word or there has to be more than one meaning. Pete Okay. Steve Right? When Eric Alexander said, you know, the robes of Christ's righteousness and it's the Christian's livery.

Pete Wrapped in the robes of Christ's righteousness. Steve Yeah. He did that John 10 message.

I never forgot it. But anyway, livery could be, you know, you're driving kids to school and it says livery on your license plate. Or it could be clothing, you know, that kind of haberdashery. Pete. Okay.

So, we'll see. Steve. So, I wonder what foil actually does mean. Pete. I mean, it's a wrapping. Steve. Maybe it's a hendiatus.

Pete. Welcome to No Grammar Radio. And we're going to wrap you in the robes of grammatical righteousness.

Favorite Seminary Classes and Vern Poythress on Genesis 1–3

I think what I was looking for was a yes man when I first started the show. But see, I thought foil would be more appealing to you because otherwise you'd never do it. Steve. Because I'm a rebel at heart.

Pete. Can you remember maybe your favorite class at Master Seminary? What did you learn?

I have all these papers from Master Seminary. Steve I do remember some of my favorite classes. I mean, one of them was definitely contemporary evangelicalism because it was a history of evangelicalism from like 1875 Niagara Bible Conference forward.

And I just found it fascinating, you know, all the denominational splits, the, you know, the fight and fundies and all that kind of stuff. I just found it very interesting because I didn't have any kind of background in that.

So, I found it interesting. And the way that, you know, Dr. Pettigrew would speak about the academy and liberalism and just different things like that. I found it very helpful.

Well, we should have done this at the very beginning of the show, but I have this article in front of me, 10 Things You Should Know About Genesis 1, 2, and 3. Pete Okay. 10 Things. Pete Uh-huh. 10 Things, and it's by Verne Pothras.

And so, the cool thing about this is Pete Or Poythras? Pete Yeah, yeah. I think it's polymorphous. Pete Okay. Pete Let's see. Polly Poy. Pete Pollyanna. Polly, yes. I'll be interested to see what his take on this is, and then we'll see if we like it or not.

Pete Okay. Pete All right. Number one, Genesis 1 shows that God brought the created world into existence and sovereignly governs it according to his personal purposes. Pete I like that. Pete I think that's good, right?

We don't have a world that's just spiraling out of control and no destination, no purpose, no hope.

Pete. And the universe didn't organize itself.

So Pete Okay. He says here, and we alone among the earthly creatures are made in the image of God. That's part of that purpose. Pete Yeah, I like that. Pete Okay. So far, so good. Number two, many of God's acts, A-C-T-S, of creation may have been miraculous, and throughout history, he may work miracles when he pleases.

Pete I have to agree with that. In other words, you see creation ex nihilo. Here's this big bang of... Sorry. Pete Hello. Pete You see God creating out of nothing, and therefore, if he can do that, it probably should not surprise us that Jesus could feed 5 ,000 people or Paul can take a snake and throw it off in the fire or whatever he wants to do.

Pete I agree. Pete Okay. Number three, science makes sense within the world described in Genesis 1 -3. Oh, that's loaded. I like that because at least from my take, Steve, sometimes people want to say, okay, God created things.

God created science and all the different laws of entropy and thermodynamics and gravity and everything else. And then they do take Genesis 1, 2, and 3 as a science manual, and they try to make science from it or see if science laps over it or can be placed over it.

I like probably the thinking here. Steve It makes sense. Pete Yeah. Steve Yeah.

I think it's very good. Well, I mean, you know, because if you have a chaotic universe, then science doesn't make sense. You know, if you have a universe without God, without somebody upholding all things, then I don't think you have a scientific universe.

Pete. We're not going to get through all ten,.

So let me just read his little paragraph. Steve. We'll talk faster. Pete. Science, scientists can hope to think God's thoughts after him on a creaturely level because they are made in the image of God.

By contrast, philosophical materialism cannot explain human uniqueness or the meaning of human thoughts or the rational regularity of the world that God created. Steve. That's a good paragraph. Pete. I know.

Steve. That's a very good paragraph. Pete. Number four, we must not reject Genesis 1 -3 because some mainstream scientific claims seem to be at odds with it.

I'm 100 behind that. And I think anybody who tries to, you know, straddle tap dance or whatever around what he's saying there, saying, well, you know, this is poetry or this need not be taken literally, rubbish.

I like Steve Verne's slant here because he's not the typical answers in Genesis, Ken Ham, approach. Some of the reformed guys have a little bit different approach. And of course, sometimes I think they're wrong.

Maybe a B .B. Warfield back in the day or something with the Princetonians, and they're trying to figure out Darwin and science and everything else. But some of these reformed guys, while they might agree with answers in Genesis, they don't automatically have that default.

And therefore, when they say things like this, that would echo an answers in Genesis guy. I think that's pretty good. Pete. All right. Genesis number five or number five, Genesis five. We could talk about that passage.

And he died. Genesis is the inspired word of God and therefore fully trustworthy in all its claims.

I, again, I have no problem with it.

That's good. I like it that he's just kind of, he's leading us up to the cliff. Oh, I have no idea what he wrote. This is just, this is, this is not practice radio, is it? Number six, in genre, which is a type of literature, they said Genesis is Hebrew nonfiction prose narrative.

It belongs to the same broad category as numbers, Samuel and Kings. I think he's saying it's history. First thing, you know, it's just, he's not saying it's poetry, right?

He's not saying it's an epistle saying it's nonfiction, right?

Fascinating to me, Steve, we go to Genesis one and say, okay, this is the beginning of everything in terms of time space stuff. Of course, God, the triune God existed in eternity past, but this is the beginning.

But Moses is receiving this from God and then writing it in the wilderness, right? There's a reason why. And I think if we answer that question, maybe not on this show, but the next one, why was God giving Genesis to Moses where Moses was at the time, right?

Is there a reason, not just for us to know Genesis one at the very beginning, but what purpose did Genesis account, what purpose did that have in the life of the Israelites back then? I think that's going to be a good question to ask and answer.

What did Verne say? Much confusion has been introduced by scholarly claims that the closest links are with ancient Near East myths, Near Eastern myths. These misbelong to the other cultures and languages, and most of them are imaginative poetry.

And he's saying this isn't poetry. It might have some poetry in it. Oh, bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh, but we have to be careful and get it with the right genre. Pete. Get the right genre. Yeah, that's right.

Pete. Because we are scholars now. You know. Genesis 1 -3 is part of the first two sections of prose narrative of Genesis. Genesis 1 -1 to 2 -3 and Genesis 2 -4 to 4 -26. Okay. I don't have any problem with that.

Do you? Nope. All right. So now we turn the page. I mean, I feel like he's an uncle. Uncle Verne. You know what? Uncle Verne, PhD from Havid. We have to, we have to like him because he's one of our own here in Boston.

He's a home slice. How do you pronounce that? He got his PhD from the University of Stellenbosch. Stellenbosch. Eight. Genesis 1 -3 described events that are analogous to later events in God's providential rule over the world.

I wonder what these analogies might be. Uncle Verne, like what? Okay. Genesis 1 -3 contains a considerable number of one-time events belonging to the creation of this world, the creation of Adam and Eve and the first sins.

These one-time events are never to be repeated, but Genesis 1 -3 presents them in ordinary language to Israelites in order that they may be understood what happened by analogy with the events in their ordinary experience.

Okay. So, so what does that mean actually?

I don't know. Uncle Verne's kind of shooting over my head here.

These analogies depend on the reality of two poles, the once for all founding event and the later events of providence that are analogous to the founding event. Oh, so kind of like. Type and anti-type.

Maybe. Yeah. Or, oh, you know what? Maybe it's, maybe it's that where we've got, you know, paradise, and then paradise lost, and then Jesus recovers, and then we've got paradise in the final temple, you know, in New Jerusalem, the final Eden or something like that.

I don't know. And then the last two, Adam and Eve were specially created. Okay. I agree with that. Pattern for Christ. Fine. And then 10, the events during the six days of creation and later events in God's providential control of the world are different, yet still analogous.

Analogous. Or analgesic. Give me an aspirin. Well, it could be amnesic too, right? Where you just don't remember. What does he mean here? Something about uncertainties and extrapolation. I don't know.

So, I think I understand and agree with eight out of the 10. The two that I don't understand with, how could I agree with them? But for the sake of unity and peace, I go along.

Pete Well, also, we haven't actually been to the University of Stellenbosch, so we don't even know if the guy actually went there. And I mean, is that a real school? Jared We don't even know. Pete Is that a real school?

Jared You know what? I think there was a lot of trouble. Pete Did they have a football team? Jared They went to, he went to Tübingen, and there was problems there. He went down the street, started his own Stellenbosch.

Pete Went down the street and started his own... Jared It's like, you know, Jesus... Pete Like a taco stand or something. Jared He healed that one guy with the mud and the other guy without the mud. And then there was that big, you know, church split.

We go to the church of the healing that Jesus does with mud, and no, we go to the church the healing Jesus does without mud.

Pete Well, hey, some things are worth fighting over. Jared Uh-huh. Pete So, Stellenbosch.

Jared. Anyway, we're glad you listened to No Compromise Radio. You can go to the Facebook site. There's a few things posted there. You can go to the Twitter site. Steve, I think once a day you're on Twitter, maybe, right?

Steve. Less. Pete. But, you know, also Instagram. Don't forget to follow...

Oh, we're not on Instagram. Pete. What would we post? Steve I don't know, pictures of the solar pope.

Pete Thanks for listening. Announcer. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible-teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life-transforming power of God's Word through verse-by-verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.