A Plea to Al Mohler, Kevin DeYoung, and Bart Barber

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Non -rockabotas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it!

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Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy? Or are you gonna bite? We're being delusional. Delusional?

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Delusional's okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional.

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So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt. It's hung up on me!

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YES! What? What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.

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The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

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Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Don't go into the world and make homies.

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Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke,

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Pastor. When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

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Proverbs 17, verse 15. He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the

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Lord. It's kind of a theme verse right now. There's a pattern that's developed.

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There's a pattern that's developed for sure. We're going to get right into today, guys. We have so much to talk about. I am the Ninja. That is

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Zach Conover. He is the Communications Director for End Abortion Now.

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We have so much to do today, so I'll just point you guys quickly to all the other resources. Go to ApologiaStudios .com.

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Good for you, Gabe. All right. Praise the Lord for your faithfulness too, Gabe. You guys standing for the truth and singing songs of worship in the public square.

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Thank you to the Bonson family for that. And so let's get right into it. We have a lot to talk about today. We're going to engage, as you can see, a bit with our brother

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Al Mohler, who I love, love, love, and deeply, deeply respect, and with a little bit of some comments from Kevin DeYoung and Bart Barber, the president of the

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Southern Baptist Convention. So we're going to engage with some comments made.

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On one was a show, not specifically comments from Al Mohler, but it was on a production he was on with a number of...

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It's a roundtable, if you will. Roundtable, yeah. And the anniversary of Roe v. Wade is what it was, and of course,

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Roe v. Wade is gone, but it was roundtable discussion surrounding that.

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And so we're going to engage a bit with that. An article that Bart Barber just put out... Through the ERLC. Through the

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ERLC that we need to engage with because the issues are critical.

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They are important. They have consequences when we get them wrong as Christians and as the church.

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Consequences spiritually, consequences physically, literally physically. It's deadly in two ways, spiritually and physically.

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So we're going to engage a bit with them, and we want to engage a bit with them as brothers and sisters because we're going to engage in some comments made by some sisters in Christ as well.

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We love, we cherish, we respect these brothers and sisters, and we want to fight with all of our might against unrighteous or ungodly discord.

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But this is an instance of necessary debate, necessary discussion because the stakes are so high, and the issues are so clear in Scripture, and honestly in church tradition as well.

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It's a principle. It's an issue of principle, and the failures on this part, the failures actually in terms of methodologically and theologically that we've adopted from the pro -life establishment who operates at the top as non -Christian, as biology only sort of a thing.

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We need to engage with that because it's devastating. But as we get there, so you guys will all understand how important this is,

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I want to announce two things to you, very, very important, if you guys would please pray for us. And this has, again, everything to do with the discussion that we're doing today.

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Right now we are in an unprecedented moment. Many of you guys are aware.

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Many of you guys are not aware. We are in an unprecedented moment as the Christian church in the

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West right now. It has not been this way in decades. The decades since Roe v.

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Wade. We were begging the Lord just 10 years ago for just one legislator to be courageous enough to love

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God and neighbor enough to put in a bill of equal protection that was consistent with God's law, consistent with the law of the land, and we just wanted one.

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Lord, would you give us one? Got a little bit more than one. Yeah, and so to my knowledge, and I could be wrong about this, but I think

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I'm right about this. It was Senator Joseph Silk in Oklahoma that was the first courageous, consistent legislator with all of our friends and churches in Oklahoma that put that bill in, and it was hotly opposed by the establishment, not the pro -choice establishment, but the pro -life establishment, and they killed it.

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And then we were able to talk with legislators across the country and get more bills in. They've happened throughout the years in states, but it's usually been separated by months at a time or one end of the year to the other end of the year, and every single time that we've gotten those bills in, you've heard me say this often, the pro -choice or pro -abort community has not really had to lift a finger because these bills have been put to death or ignored by the establishment, and the legislators were told not to pass it because they don't want equal protection for all humans from conception, and that is a fact.

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I can defend it on a stage in debate, moderated public debate. I could bring all the evidence and facts that the establishment, the pro -life establishment, does not want equal protection because of a doctrinal position that they hold that has everything to do with the verse

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I read at the beginning here in terms of acquitting the guilty. They do not believe that a woman who kills a child in the womb should ever suffer any consequences.

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They believe that she should have immunity, legal immunity, and that she should be able to do what she does with impunity in terms of the law.

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That is a fact that cannot be denied. You're going to hear that a bit today as well, surprisingly from people that should know better, and I don't mean that in any way to assault them or to belittle them.

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They should know better because their theology is so strong. They should know better. Men like Albert Muller are greater men of God than I'll ever be.

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His mind is sharp. He is a great, great man of God, a man I deeply respect, and so when you hear these problems, it should be obvious to all of us, but it isn't always.

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All of us have blind spots, okay? So all that to say, the unprecedented moment that we're in right now is that across the

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United States of America right now, we have bills of equal protection, human from fertilization equal to humans outside the womb.

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What about that do we disagree on, everybody? As Christians, nothing. None of us should disagree with that, but when you really think of the implications of what

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I just said, human from fertilization, equal protection for all humans inside, outside the womb, when you really think about that, you have to think about the implications, and the implications are is that any principled actor who's involved in the death of that child is culpable, legally culpable.

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If you're a principled actor, you are a part of it. The establishment doesn't want that. They killed our bill in Louisiana.

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They killed the bill, and they made sure that legislators across the country knew that they did not want equal protection for all humans from fertilization.

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They do not want that because they want at least an actor, a principled actor involved, i .e.

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the mother. They want her to have immunity, and they want her to be able to do it with impunity in terms of no legal repercussions whatsoever.

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And so all that to say, across the country, we have bills of equal protection now happening this legislative session, and you're going to have to help me,

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Zach, because it's a lot. Texas. Yeah, Georgia, Kentucky, Arizona, South Carolina, Colorado, Arkansas, Alabama, Texas, Idaho, Indiana, Missouri is another one, potentially

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Mississippi, Ohio, and a couple of other places. And potentially, we just found out, Tennessee as well. Our cup is overflowing.

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Yeah. We need your help, guys. So that's where we're at right now is this legislative session.

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This is happening across the country. It's not just one. It is happening across the country. Some of you guys just saw it. We did it last week at the

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Creation Museum with Answers in Genesis. Really appreciate the support of those guys and the guys at Living Waters who funded that and made it possible.

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Really appreciate G3, Josh Bice, Virgil Walker, the guys in Georgia that helped us with our bill that's about to drop in Georgia with Emery Dunahoo.

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Be in prayer for them because that's about to drop any moment. This is happening across the country.

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I wanted to alert you guys to one really important thing. In Oklahoma, Oklahoma, our friends and pastors and Christians in Oklahoma have a bill in Oklahoma.

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When I heard about this, I was ecstatic because I didn't even know this was happening. Oklahoma has a bill, and it is called

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SB402. So if you're in Oklahoma, listen up, or surrounding states, listen up. SB402, it's authored by Senator Warren Hamilton under the direction of Attorney Bradley Pierce.

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It calls for the complete abolition of abortion, outlawing all abortion in Oklahoma, whether by mills or pills, and establishing equal protection for the pre -born.

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Next Tuesday, that's this coming Tuesday, everybody, February 7th at 10 a .m., there's a gathering for a short rally on the

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South Plaza of the state capitol, as it was in previous years, and then they'll move inside for some psalm singing and organized lobbying for SB402.

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They're going to break for lunch, and then a mini -conference will follow from 2 to 7 p .m. at Edmond's First Baptist Church in Edmond, Oklahoma.

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I'm going to encourage every Christian in the state of Oklahoma, if you love the Lord, love the pre -born, get to that rally.

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Get out there on those steps. Make sure that you make your voice heard. Make sure you go to that psalm singing in the capitol.

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Love that language, banning of mills and pills. That's right, that's right. So that's happening. Thank you to our brothers and sisters in Oklahoma who are so faithful and fought so hard for this, and be in prayer for that legislator as well.

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But this is happening across the country right now, and it's unprecedented.

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It's a big moment for us. We need your prayers. If you can, offer financial support. Go to endabortionnow .com.

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Help to give there. We need to meet our goal. This costs money to get these bills in. It costs money to fight these fights in these states.

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So please be a part of this with us. We do need you to stand with us at endabortionnow .com.

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Be in prayer, because all these bills, I don't think people understand, they're about to drop. Some of them are in right now, about to drop.

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Once it starts moving forward, you're talking about hearings, you're talking about floor votes, you're talking about fights that are going to have to happen, and we need you in these states.

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So if you're in any of the states that we just announced, and you're like, hey, can I help? The answer is yes, please, and your mama.

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Bring your whole church. Bring your friends. And all the churches in the area. Yeah, everybody you possibly can, because we need you desperately in this fight.

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Okay, so there you go. So the issue that we keep trying to draw everyone's attention to, that we keep trying to emphasize, is the issue that is technically an issue of heresy.

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And so we are reasoning right now as Christians, from within the Christian church, standing on the

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Word of God. The issue really is an issue of something that is not biblically orthodox.

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It's not historically orthodox. It's not something that you find in church tradition, this kind of inconsistency.

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You see a unanimous, in many ways, at points, a unanimous perspective with what we've had come up to us, on the issue of the pre -born and the issue of abortion.

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All the way from the earliest stage, the earliest writing we have, the Didache, on through the first five centuries of the church.

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When the church has spoken on this issue, they've spoken on it biblically. Can we maybe take one or two examples of that?

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Please do, yeah. You just mentioned the Didache. It's a compilation of apostolic moral teachings that appear at the end of the first century.

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It says, There are two ways, the way of life and the way of death, and the difference between these two ways is great.

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Therefore, do not murder a child by abortion or kill a newborn infant.

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The Epistle of Barnabas, an early second century theological tract that was highly regarded by the first Christian communities.

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You shall love your neighbor more than your own life. You shall not slay a child by abortion.

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You shall not kill that which has already been generated. Second century judicial theorist and Christian apologist,

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Athenigoras, in a letter to Emperor Marcus Aurelius, wrote, We say that women who induce abortions are murderers and will have to give account of it to God.

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The fetus in the womb is a living being and therefore the object of God's care.

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And maybe one more. The third century. So we started first century, second century, third century. Clement of Alexandria asserted that our whole life can proceed according to God's perfect plan only if we gain dominion over our desires, practicing continence from the beginning instead of destroying through perverse and pernicious arts human offspring who are given birth by divine providence.

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Those who use abortifacient medicine to hide their fornication cause not only the outright murder of the fetus, but of the whole human race as well.

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And by the way, those could be multiplied. I mean, one more, Augustine, right? The Bishop of Hippo.

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They provoke women, speaking of those whose lustful cruelty drove women to extremes.

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They provoke women to such extravagant methods as to use poisonous drugs to secure barrenness or else, if unsuccessful in this, to murder the unborn child.

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So there's a few examples in church history. A few, yeah, and there's plenty more. We could go on. Yeah, we could go on. And the issue here is an issue of heresy.

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I have referred to this, and this is my plea to Dr. Moeller, Pastor DeYoung, and to Bart Barber, President Bart Barber.

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The issue here is an issue of heresy, brothers. The pro -life establishment is not operating on the basis of what you gentlemen say we ought to operate on on a daily basis at every moment.

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The word of God, thy word is truth. And so the heresy of the pro -life movement is that there is a principled actor, a principled actor involved in this issue that ought to be given legal immunity.

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She is not guilty of a crime. She is a victim herself.

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She is a victim. And so that key issue is what's going to keep this issue alive permanently, unless the church of Christ steps in to speak the truth in this area, the kind of truth that I just gave at the beginning of the episode, the truth from God that says, he who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the

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Lord. God says it's an abomination, not only to put a person who is righteous in court under the condemnation of the court, he's righteous and you condemn him.

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That's an abomination. We all feel the weight of it. But God also says it is equally an abomination. It is detestable in his eyes.

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He loathes it. When we say to a guilty person, you are not guilty.

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That is an abomination to God. And the heresy of the establishment, again, not operating from the basis of the scriptures, this is what they've indoctrinated the

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Christian church with, they've indoctrinated pastors with this, they've indoctrinated women with this, is that a principal actor in this act is actually not guilty.

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She is a victim herself. So, what does that mean? Legally, it means she has immunity and she can do this in perpetuity and there's no consequences.

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She can execute her child in her womb with no consequences. Biblically, the problem with that is that it actually removes the gospel from the conversation because it says to the woman, you are not guilty.

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You do not need forgiveness for this. You are equally as guilty as your child.

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And so there's no need to flee to Christ here. Innocent. You are innocent. There's no need to flee to Christ in this because there is no sin here.

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And now watch. Let this pull out a little more. Tease it out. Watch the pro -life person when they really firm up their commitments to what they believe is in the womb, say, no, but you are doing something wrong.

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It is wrong to kill your child. And that's when you have to just ask the next question. Why is it wrong? By what standard?

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Who says that it's wrong? And how is it wrong? What's happening? And the answer is...

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What sin is she committing? Yeah, it's murder. Okay, what's the consequence of murder? Well, there's legal consequences for murder.

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We're gonna get into that today as we talk a bit about Barbara's article. But the issue here for all of us to understand, and this is especially important right now,

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I know everyone... A lot of times you might be like, you know, I want something a little lighter today. I don't want the heavy, heavy conversation.

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Brothers and sisters, unprecedented moment. Across the country, bills of equal protection. We can end it, criminalize it, provide protection.

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We can abolish this thing. It is unprecedented in what's happening across the country. Not one state, not two states, not three states, not six states, not 10 states, like 15 states potentially.

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It's growing all the time. I just learned that we're gonna get another state potentially, Ohio. And so it keeps happening.

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So this is the moment to speak about it because the people who are fighting against these bills of equal protection would surprise you.

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They're the organizations that you thought were on our side. They were the ones that you've been paying. And what is the problem?

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The problem is a doctrinal problem that is actually technically heresy, that she is not guilty of murder, that she should be given immunity, that she doesn't need forgiveness for this, that she is herself a victim.

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Now, by the way, as we get into this discussion, it is vitally important for me to make sure that this is very, very clear.

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Our approach to this isn't emphasizing gender. You might be saying, but you just talked about gender the whole time here.

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I'm talking about a principal person involved who happens to be the mother of the child who's dismembered.

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That's why she's being brought up. But for us, it's not about a gender and the bills that are written that we're a part of, that we've gotten written, that we are getting legislators to put into the states.

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Many of these are our bills. Make no mention of that. No mention of gender. Right. Because that's not how you do legislation.

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That's not how you do law. It's the conduct. It's not a class. Right. It's not a gender. It is an act, and it's defined as human from fertilization, equally protected.

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Now, the implications of it, again, the implications of it are, and the establishment sees this, that would mean that the mother is going to be seen as guilty.

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We're doctrinally opposed to that, which means they're doctrinally opposed to actual equal protection.

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They will never, ever, ever, ever, ever legally abolish abortion with that heretical teaching that she's not guilty, and she herself is a victim.

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They will never end it. So all of this talk of, like, we want to make abortion unthinkable, we want to end abortion one day, we want an abortion -free

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America, it is never going to happen. It will never, ever happen with their doctrinal position.

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It cannot happen because they do believe that a principle involved, i .e.

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the mother, or maybe in some cases they'll say the father as well, ought to be able to execute their child in the womb with legal immunity.

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That is their position. Some of you guys might hear this right now and you're thinking, that's shocking, that can't be the case.

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It is the case. It is the case in every single state that we've fought over and over and over again.

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It has been the pro -life establishment saying, do not pass that bill. We do not ever want this woman to be seen as guilty of anything or having any consequences.

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They want legal immunity for a principle actor in abortion. And that's the issue here.

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So the question is, does scripture teach that? And do you handle legislation in any other case like that?

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Like this needs to be seen as a crime, it is a horrific crime, but the men who do it should be given immunity.

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Do we have any other case in law where we approach it like that? It is an inconsistency.

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And that's why this is a loving, respectful plea to my brothers and my sisters who have not thought this through.

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Please consider the inconsistency. Meditate on the word of God and its implications and think about the inconsistency and the devastation that this is causing.

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When we think about the partiality that's been exercised over the last 50 years of the organizations that have actually said, let's fight for it saying you can kill these kids, but not these kids.

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Look, there is no way around this. And I'll finalize this, Zach, and I want you to say something to this. There's no way around this.

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I mean this with humility. And I mean this as a plea to my brothers and my sisters. If you take a bill like we put in in Louisiana that says human from fertilization, it's in the very image of God.

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Our bill said that. Image of God, human from fertilization. Equal protection inside and outside the womb.

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You take that bill and then you take somebody else from the establishment's bill that says you can kill these kids, but not these kids.

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And now on the last day, we stand before the judge of all the earth who will always do right. Question. When those bills are presented before his throne, which one does

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God hate? And that should hang.

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There shouldn't just be a rush to answer that. Which bill does

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God hate? Because he says, same book, Proverbs. 20, right?

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Proverbs 20. It says it twice in 20. 20, 23. Unequal weights are an abomination to the

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Lord and false scales are not good. Verse 10. Unequal weights and unequal measures are both alike an abomination to the

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Lord. He loathes it. It's detestable to him. So you write legislation that says kill these kids, but not these kids, which is what those bills of permission do.

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There is no way out of it. They have the function of permission. Kill these, but not these. That is partiality.

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That is inconsistent. And God says that he loathes it. Now I recognize that this is a very firm and strong stance right now, but here's the thing

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I'm going to say as a plea, a very humble plea. Who's standing on the scriptures and the word of God in this?

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Who's standing on God's word as we're having this debate? Who's trying to make the argument from the basis of what does the scripture say?

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Because that's where we're starting. And look, there's no way out of this. There's no way out of it.

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You're not going to be able to make a coherent biblical argument with a bill of partiality.

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So listen, and I know I said the last thing, but to make sure everyone gets the right, hold of the right thing here.

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This isn't really a question of quote unquote, immediatism versus incrementalism. I actually think those categories are incorrect.

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I don't like that the debate goes there. All due respect to everybody. All due respect. I don't think that's a proper way to frame it because it's actually not accurate.

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It's not a question of immediatism versus incrementalism. It actually is definitionally a question of partiality versus equal justice.

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The debate lies there. Can the people of God support and prophetically work in making it about God's word and authority in the gospel?

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Can they work in the context of bills of partiality, bills that God says he loathes, he calls an abomination?

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Again, it's not incrementalism versus immediatism. It's equal justice versus partiality.

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Can you maintain your Christian commitments by supporting this legislation? Yeah. I think we all see the pro -life movement has rightly recognized that pro -choicers are being wildly inconsistent when they say things like, yes, it's a human in the womb, but it's not a person, right?

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It's a complete contradiction in terms. There's no such thing as a human non -person. That's a made up category.

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It doesn't exist. But then for my brothers and sisters in the movement, I hope and pray that you can turn around and see that you as well are supporting an equally inconsistent unbiblical category, and that is a morally culpable victim.

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Yeah. Those two things can't coexist. And you need to understand that in pointing out the inconsistency of the opposition, turn the mirror on yourself and understand that the elevation of this particular person to the crime, right, that's being committed here has clouded, it's shrouded the view of consistency that you have.

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That's right. The fact that you can hold on to the two opposing realities.

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This is an actor that's morally culpable, responsible, but not guilty.

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Mm -hmm. And so that's my plea. And we're going to see that in Barbara's article. And that's why I lay it down, because they're going to hit the head.

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He literally recognizes that inconsistency. So let's do Barbara's article on the tail end of this.

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Okay, yeah. Let's engage a bit with... I think that's good. Yeah, let's... Because I think we can fill out the ending a little better with this in front of us.

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Yeah. So recently, Dr. Moeller, who, again, if you're just jumping on, is somebody that I greatly admire and love and respect.

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Can I just give you a personal thing? Yeah. Funny, there's...

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We're in Anaheim for the Southern Baptist Convention's members meeting that just happened fairly recently.

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And so I'm sitting there. Well, I come in, and there's a bunch of guys there that are hard at work on this in the

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SBC consistency. And so they're standing there. You know, Askel is there, and a bunch of other guys.

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And I come over, and I pray with them, because they're about to go up to the microphone. So then I just move over like five feet away to like a seat.

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And I'm just kind of sitting there and wait for them to go. And then Askel, Bill, he gives the microphone to Al Moeller.

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And all I hear is Moeller's voice coming, and he's standing right next to me. And I was like a giddy little school child.

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I was like, ooh, Moeller's here. I just, you know, all the help.

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It's not just the briefing I'm hearing his voice on. He's actually right next to me. He's right next to me. And all the help that I've ever gotten from Moeller in my younger years and even in study, it's been such a blessing.

29:50

So all that, just lay that down. I greatly respect the man, and he deserves to be honored as a brother in the

29:56

Lord, and I want to respect him. He held a round table discussion, as you noted, on the anniversary of Roe v.

30:03

Wade two weeks ago, I don't know, it was recently. Right. Essentially, what's the fallout of this, and now what does it mean for us moving forward?

30:11

And so on this discussion, some key issues came out. Now, I want to remind you that Kentucky has a bill of abolition and equal protection right now.

30:21

The bill says exactly what Dr. Moeller believes, and that's what

30:26

I love about it. So Dr. Moeller would not look at this bill and say, I disagree with the fundamental things here.

30:32

He'd say, I agree with that. Human fertilization, I want all humans to be equally protected by the law.

30:37

So I want to make sure that's very clear. I don't think that Dr. Moeller would have any disagreement with those fundamental assertions.

30:44

However, we have that bill in the state of Kentucky. Dr. Moeller lives in Louisville, I believe.

30:50

And look, all my Kentuckians, I said it right. I didn't say Louisville. Louisville, yeah. Louisville, you got to relax the jaw.

30:58

So the bill is in Kentucky. It's unfortunate that we didn't get a chance to have that as a part of the discussion.

31:04

Like this is an actual bill of equal protection. Everything we're talking about in this show, human life is sacred, human life begins at fertilization or conception.

31:12

We've got a bill like that in Kentucky right now and across the country. It's unfortunate. But I wanted to key on a few moments in this discussion.

31:23

Just four clips for everybody to see and for us to wrap our minds around and start engaging with.

31:34

I think the first one was in a little bit. I'm going to do clip two here. All right. We'll let this play out so you guys can see the context.

31:44

Here we go. Pro -abortion. This is the most important issue. What is the most important issue?

31:50

What's the bottom line here? Well, I was just going to touch on what you said about the language real quick, which is that nowadays,

31:58

I'm sure you guys have seen this. They also don't want us to be called pro -life. They want to be called pro -life as well because they say everyone's pro -life.

32:06

Nobody is not pro -life. And so they're trying to change the language there as well, which I find a little humorous.

32:13

But what is the bottom line? The bottom line is that every life has value.

32:20

And a recent survey just came out that showed that 96 % of women that didn't have access to abortion when they needed or when they wanted one say that they are thankful for that.

32:32

They do not regret what happened to them. And so what I would say is that women, all these women don't want abortions.

32:40

They need time. They need support. They need resources. I've said this many times.

32:50

We've said this many times. That argument betrays a lot of time spent outside of an abortion mill.

33:04

Sure. First and foremost. First and foremost, that argument betrays a lot of time spent outside ministering, outside the abortion mills.

33:13

We've seen God save thousands upon thousands of children outside of abortion mills. We've spent countless hours as Apologia Church outside of our local abortion mills, and we've saved, at this point,

33:25

I think we just stopped counting because it's too difficult to calculate at times, maybe a thousand, over a thousand babies from our local mills.

33:36

And I don't know what that means, Isaac. Okay. And when someone says these women don't want abortions, not only theologically do

33:50

I think that that's inaccurate, but also it betrays, again, time in this movement fighting against this.

33:58

Sure. That's obvious for anyone that stood out there for any length of time. Let's play some of it.

34:04

Let's take a look. Now, I want to warn you, the only reason I'm playing this right now is because this is devastating.

34:12

This narrative, propagated by the pro -life establishment that the woman is a victim and she doesn't want to have an abortion, this narrative goes against the clear facts.

34:24

3 ,000 babies a day, oftentimes, are killed via abortion. Mothers know what they're going into abortion mills for.

34:31

They know. If they didn't know what was in them, they wouldn't be at an abortion mill. They know what's going on. They know what is happening.

34:38

I can't tell you how many hundreds of conversations I've had with women who are bragging about their right to kill their child, saying,

34:44

I acknowledge as my child, I have a right to murder my child if I want to. I'm going to play you a clip right now. I want to warn you ahead of time, get ready to turn your volume down.

34:52

If you're in the car right now, you should get ready to mute quickly. We did this recently, but I have to do this because the consequences of this heretical teaching are devastating spiritually to women and they are devastating physically.

35:05

People die because of this. I'm going to play some clips right now and let's ask the question, do these women want to have abortions?

35:13

Are they just not wanting to have abortions? Here's a clip we played from a recent show.

35:19

You're going to hear about it right now. Between the two, having experienced both, I'm very much like, you know what?

35:26

The surgical one was pretty big, girl. I did it without the anesthesia, well, the local anesthesia. I didn't go under.

35:32

I stayed awake. I wanted the whole experience of it. I'm like, I want to look into your face when you're sucking that out of my body.

35:38

That's fucking kind of hot. Why is that hot? I'm up in fricking stirrups and I'm just like 21 and just like, mmm.

35:47

I bet your pussy looked really good where they pulled that dead baby out of it. Yeah, you know, they just... This could be a fetish.

35:53

Wait a minute. Vacuum the whole thing out. Wait a minute. Does Abortion Spa also have an OnlyFans? OnlyFans abortions to help women pay for their fucking abortions.

36:01

If people are into that, there's a fetish for that, to watch bloody fucking guts come out of a pussy. Somebody is into that.

36:06

Is this how we make abortions okay in capitalism? Is it because... We've got to find a way to not only, you know, the doctors are getting paid and it's safe and that.

36:16

Yes, yes. Yes, yes. But also, let's feed it back into the machine like it's the

36:21

OnlyFans going. OnlyFans paying the insurance companies. You know that there is somebody that would fucking...

36:27

Okay. Well, that was just as awful as the first time. Yeah. But I think it goes to...

36:36

Because they're talking about in the context of Roe. Right? So, I think it's becoming increasingly clear the reason we have abortion in this country was never because of Roe versus Wade.

36:48

The government was never forcing anybody to get abortions. That never happened. The reason we have legalized abortion in this country is because sinful hearts want abortion.

37:01

Yeah. That's the clearest way I know how to say it. And it pains me that we have to mention the fact that we do acknowledge that there are sex trafficked women who are being forced into it.

37:10

Of course, we acknowledge that. They're not the principal at that point. They're being coerced. And our law has remedies for that.

37:16

It doesn't go after her. It goes after the person holding the gun. And the problem is though without equal protection for the child, there's no way to make coercion to kill a pre -born child a criminal act.

37:28

Right. Right. Because if there isn't that, then the person suggesting or saying you should do this, you should have the abortion.

37:36

If there was equal protection for these pre -born children, that would be legal. That's right. But as it is, it's not.

37:42

That's right. And there's more. So you just got the on the roundtable discussion with Dr.

37:48

Mohler, Brother Mohler. You got her saying women don't want to have abortions. And we could do this for days, but I'm not going to I'm not going to assault you all day with the hundreds and hundreds of clips we can play of women denying that fact outright.

38:03

They know it's a baby. They want to be able to murder their babies. This is Carol Tobias. She is the president of National Right to Life Committee, one of the largest organizations that has opposed every bill of equal protection that we've put in.

38:16

This is her being asked the question as well. So you can see, this is the doctrine of the establishment. This is what they believe. And this is coming from the very top.

38:26

So someone might bring up the scenario, you know, working backwards with that same logic that establishes the dignity, the value, and the worth of the human.

38:34

They'll say, well, obviously, you know, the mother who,

38:39

God forbid, drowned her six -week -old child in the bathtub, right? I mean, we would demand that she, you know, be tried, that there would be some consequences for that.

38:52

So those same people would take the inverse and say, well, if the dignity and the value of the unborn child has been established and we know that, what does that say about the mother who goes through with an abortion?

39:05

Is there a logical connection to be made there that there needs to be that same demand for justice for that child, which do you see?

39:16

So it's an important question because Carol Tobias believes and she promotes and raises money on the fact that the human being in the womb is human from the moment of fertilization.

39:34

Their life is sacred. They are to be protected and that this is an unjustified taking of human life.

39:40

That's what she believes. That's what her organization operates on. I'm fearfully and wonderfully made.

39:47

You'll see even Bible verses at times kicked around by a lot of these organizations like this, what the Bible says in biology does speak to that and testify to that, that you're human from the moment of fertilization.

39:58

It's true. So Zach asked Tobias, that was, by the way, Zach actually engaging with Mrs.

40:05

Tobias on that issue. He asked her a very valid question. If you believe that it's human fertilization and it's an unjustified taking of human life, then shouldn't there be some consequences for somebody who is a principal involved?

40:16

Why are there different standards of justice? That's right. You could ask the question that way. Yeah, and here's her response. I understand the question.

40:23

The pro -life movement has a lot of women who are active in it who have had abortions and they very much argue that the mother who got the abortion is also a victim.

40:39

So the pro -life movement for the almost 50 years that it's been in existence have never called for punishing the woman who gets the abortion.

40:50

We want to, of course, get the abortionists to stop doing the activity and we want abortion to stop, but we have not said that women need to be penalized for doing that.

41:05

So they want, and this is just the way it is. This isn't exaggerating.

41:13

This isn't misrepresenting. This isn't giving a caricature of their position. They want women to be able to kill their children in the womb with legal immunity.

41:27

Immunity. They do not want a woman who kills her child in the womb to ever, ever have any consequences because, and you heard her say it, they believe that the woman who kills her child in the womb is a victim herself, like her child.

41:43

Brothers and sisters, that is an unbiblical, unorthodox, heretical teaching and it has infected the

41:53

Christian church in the West. It did not come from Scripture. It did not come from a place of logical consistency.

42:00

It came from an establishment that professes confidently that they are not operating fundamentally as Christians on the

42:09

Word of God. This is a gospel -less message for these mothers. I want women who've had abortions to experience forgiveness and grace in Jesus Christ.

42:20

My church is filled with mothers who have killed their children and they are sisters in Christ. They are washed. They are declared righteous.

42:26

They are forgiven in Christ. However, you are never going to end this when you hold to that kind of heretical belief and it is inconsistent and these women are not victims who willfully take the lives of their children in the womb.

42:40

They are willfully doing it. They are culpable spiritually and they ought to be culpable because they are principles involved legally and you are never going to see the end of abortion, ever, because, and here's proof, proof positive right now for everybody.

42:58

Please consider it. Again, this is a plea. It's a plea for consistency. Proof, positive of what I'm saying, is take a look at the abortion pill industry in all these states that had trigger laws where their mills are closed down and their pills are being shipped in daily and mothers are just doing it from the privacy of their own homes.

43:14

I had a very disheartening conversation at a conference I just did in Mississippi where somebody walked up to me and they were just so grateful for the work that we did and the amicus brief that we helped with the

43:25

Dobbs case because we were a part of that. You know, thank you guys for doing that and having a voice in that Dobbs case.

43:30

We're thankful that it's over now. Isn't it great it's finally over? I said, no, well, it's not over at all. He goes, yeah, he was like, yes, yes it is.

43:38

I go, no, no. He was, well, Mississippi. I said, no, unfortunately, that's not the case. Nowhere.

43:43

It's nowhere. Nowhere. As a matter of fact, you're seeing a large increase in the shipment of pills in the states and people going to other states to kill their children and here's the deal.

43:54

The establishment, because of their doctrine, they do not have any way to rectify that situation because they've literally told women for 50 years, you are not to ever, ever see consequences.

44:04

You're not guilty, sweetie. You're a victim. You don't need forgiveness for this because you're a victim like your child and we don't ever want you to be punished.

44:10

So these women say, great, no penalties. I can do this to my child at will and you think that I'm allowed to do it?

44:16

You want me to have immunity? Fantastic. Give me the pill. And that's what's happening. If women don't want abortions, if what you're saying is true, then why are they seeking abortions?

44:27

Again, I mean, this is just using as plain speech as we know how to use about this.

44:35

But you're right, that is disheartening. It is disheartening because it's not as if we're just talking about blue Democrat run states.

44:43

We're talking about, no abortion, it's legal everywhere. We're talking about red states.

44:50

Abortion is legal up to birth for one party. That's right. And again, if you're just getting onto the live stream right now, the reason we continue to make this argument and fight the way that we're fighting and we continue to to fill

45:05

Apologia Studios feed with this conversation is because right now we are in an unprecedented moment.

45:10

We have bills of equal protection happening across the entire country right now. I'm losing count now at this point because I'm learning of new states that are saying, hey, we'll put your bill in for you as well.

45:20

I just learned about Ohio and Tennessee. Those might be potentially happening. But we have it happening across the country in South Carolina, in Georgia, in Texas, Arizona, Idaho.

45:29

We have it happening in Indiana. We have it happening across the country, Kentucky, and we need you.

45:36

And this inconsistency is going to keep it alive. Here is another one. I want to, again, just provide proof.

45:42

It's stated, these women don't want to have abortions. They're victims too.

45:48

That's the narrative that's been taught to the Christian church by the establishment for 50 years.

45:54

Again, it is not biblical. It is not historically orthodox in terms of the Christian confessions and what's come down through history.

46:00

But this statement is made, she's a victim, she doesn't know what she's doing, and she doesn't want to have an abortion.

46:06

This is a conversation we had when our bill was going on in Louisiana at Louisiana State University. Is it offensive?

46:15

Thank you. Thank you. They sit there like we think abortion is funny, but it's even more comical that y 'all are here.

46:22

Y 'all are fucking losers. Instead of going and doing something for our children. Can I ask you a question? I don't really want to talk to you. Okay, women, you said women don't want to have abortions?

46:29

Yes, women don't. So how come 3 ,000 are dying a day? Because they have to. They have to.

46:34

Can I ask you a question? I don't see you advocating for adoption agents. I adopted my son.

46:40

talking about that. My name is Jeff. I adopted my son. He was going to be aborted. I adopted him. So your argument's failed, isn't it?

46:46

No. And why is it hard for women to have an abortion? Because we should have the choice. No, why is it hard?

46:52

You said it hurts her. I shouldn't have to have a baby because you want me to. What'd you call it?

46:58

I should have to have a baby. So you should be able to kill the baby. Yes. There you go. You should listen to what she just said.

47:04

I don't want to kill my baby. I'm going to kill that shit. Thank you. You said women don't take pleasure in it.

47:11

That's how we started. She just... You're generalizing. No, no, no. She just... She just refuted your position.

47:18

Is she speaking on behalf of all women? But I just showed you that this is the face of abortion. You tried to protect it.

47:24

This is the real face. She said, I should be able to kill that shit if I want to. Her baby. And I will.

47:30

So should I be able to rape a baby if I want to? What does that have to do with it? You said you should be able to kill a baby if you want to.

47:36

It's not my body. It's not your body. It's not your body. The baby is not your body.

47:42

The baby is cells. It's fucking sex. Your cells. Your cells. Human cells. Your argument has failed, hasn't it?

47:49

No, it's not. The baby's body is not your body. You're a dumb man doing political crosswords. Okay. Abolish abortion.

47:55

Y 'all are just actual losers. So what if I wanted to stop sex trafficking? Can I do it because I'm not a woman?

48:01

Well, are you here to talk about sex trafficking? Well, hold on. I'm asking you to reason with this. I don't have a uterus.

48:06

Can I stop sex trafficking? You're not doing that. That's obsolete. Well, you don't have a penis, so you shouldn't talk to the guys that are sex trafficking.

48:14

Right? Isn't that your argument? No, you can't think about it because your logic is tainted with sin.

48:21

My logic is not tainted. Your logic is tainted with your religious bullshit. Your argument... You're very religious.

48:26

You're very religious. Your argument is if I don't have a uterus, I can't speak against this atrocity. No, you can't speak You don't have a penis.

48:33

You don't have a penis. It has nothing to do with religion and it has nothing to do You don't have a penis, so you can't do sex trafficking.

48:39

to make you mad. You can't speak. I'm not trying to make you mad. No, your arguments have failed to kill their babies.

48:46

Yes. There you go. Exactly. To murder their babies. Yes. I'm glad you admitted it. You need to turn from your sin and trust in Christ because you just advocated for murdering your own child.

48:57

I didn't advocate for murdering the child. That's what you just said. I'm advocating for a woman to choose to do a show for her body.

49:03

To murder her child. You said to murder her child. Again, I'm not going to assault you with an entire episode of clip after clip after clip after clip of this being stated.

49:16

The point is is it's not biblical. And the point is is the inconsistencies lead to spiritual death and they lead to actual physical death.

49:25

Can we buttress that with one verse? Because you mentioned not being out of harmony with scripture this whole heretical teaching.

49:33

James 1, 14. But each person is tempted when he is lured away and is enticed by his own desire.

49:40

Listen to the language. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin.

49:47

And sin when it is fully grown brings forth death. So much is made of the external pressures placed upon a woman to the detriment of her personal responsibility in the life of her child.

50:01

And the word of God says that the root of the problem is a sinful heart.

50:07

That evil thoughts and murder come out of the heart. That people are led away and enticed by the sinful desires within their own heart.

50:16

It's a problem of within. It's not an external problem. This is not secular humanism where it's everybody else's fault all the time.

50:26

It's an issue of a heart that is set to do evil. And the clip we were just playing of the lady.

50:34

96 % said that because they didn't have access to abortion when they wanted one said they don't regret it.

50:40

Therefore, women don't want abortions. It's a non -sequitur. Just because there's no regret there doesn't mean that their desire was not to get the abortion.

50:51

They didn't have access to it, thank God. And therefore, they're not riddled with and burdened by the shackles of the guilt that they would have faced if they had gone through with killing their child.

51:03

But that doesn't mean that the desire wasn't there. It's a non -sequitur. And all of the talk that was happening in Brother Moeller's roundtable discussion about being there for women and women who are hurting all the women who have been hurt.

51:16

They mentioned that. All the women who have been hurt by the issue of abortion. It's like, what are you talking about when you say hurt? Do you mean they feel guilt and shame?

51:23

Do you mean they feel condemned? Well, then what's the solution? It's to confess that sin and to come to Christ for forgiveness and salvation in that.

51:32

But if you're telling women that they're actually not guilty and they don't really want to do this, you're minimizing the blow that needs to be there that we should all feel.

51:41

Say, for example, when we come to the weight of Romans chapter 3, you're not righteous. You're not good.

51:47

There's no fear of God before your eyes. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Like, Paul doesn't put soft edges around the gospel to placate to somebody's pain.

51:58

He just says, no, you're guilty. And this is why Jesus is so glorious. And isn't that beautiful that the gospel he preaches doesn't show any partiality?

52:06

Yeah. Jew and Gentile, it's everybody. I mean, what was the reason why he confronts Peter in the church at Galatia? Yeah, there's these influential men that came in and before that,

52:15

Peter was eating with the Gentiles. But when they came in, all of a sudden, he didn't want to eat with the Gentiles anymore. Well, what was he doing?

52:20

What was he guilty of? Partiality. Showing partiality, personal favoritism, which James says that, you know, that's actually, if you do that, you're violating the law and you're convicted by the law as a transgressor.

52:31

Right. And that's why Paul can say, yeah, these influential men, never mind about them.

52:37

Well, why can he say that I make no never mind of them? Because he's focused on pleasing God instead of pleasing man.

52:43

That's right. Like he says in the first chapter. That's why he could confront the Apostle Peter and say, your conduct is out of step with the gospel.

52:51

No partiality. It's saying something. It's lying about the truth. Yep. And that's kind of, that's what we're getting at here.

52:57

One more clip because it's a key issue. This is the issue that's keeping it alive. And I want you all to know as you pray for us and as you join together with us in this fight with the bills that we've put in across the country, this is the mountain we have to overcome.

53:09

And unfortunately, we have to overcome it within our own ranks, within professing believers and those who are, who profess to be pro -life, for life, a consistent for life position.

53:18

This is the issue we have to consistently overcome. And I believe with all my heart until we get to this, this is the hinge upon which it all turns.

53:25

Martin Luther said, you've captured it, the hinge upon which the entire thing turns. Martin Luther understood that in the debates that were happening inside the

53:32

Reformation. And in this area of Reformation, here is the thing upon which the whole thing turns.

53:46

I don't think that's the proper thing to do. The person that's actually doing the killing is the abortionist. But a lot of these women are scared.

53:55

God commands us not to murder. They're confused.

54:14

What's your name? They don't know what they're doing. So, we want to maintain the right to murder children.

54:26

Yes, that's correct. That is correct. The right to murder children. Yes, abortion is an act of homicide.

54:32

One person killing another person. We're always going to say it is that. It's murder. But we have to look at what's going on in society, what's going on, what they're being told, how they're being lied to, and how do we reach them the best way.

54:46

Well, I can tell you what they've been told. Yeah. And that is that they're not responsible for taking a life.

54:52

Yeah. Do you hear what he said? Think about that inconsistency. Yeah, it's homicide. It's murder. He said it.

54:57

He said it's homicide, it's murder, and she's not guilty. It's homicide, it's murder, and she is not guilty.

55:05

As a matter of fact, it's actually the abortionist that's killing the baby. Wait a second. Hold on now. Abortionists aren't running around neighborhoods looking for babies to kill.

55:11

They have air conditioned locations with health code inspections. Women deliver their children to the abortionist willingly.

55:22

And again, it pains me to have to say this, but I have to say it because it's used as an argument and it's a fallacious one.

55:28

We are not disregarding the fact that in this world there are people who are coerced. A bill of equal protection would satisfy that problem.

55:37

It would go after the principal involved, the coercer, the one doing the coercing.

55:42

It wouldn't go after the woman who's being forced at gunpoint or say in sex trafficking to do it.

55:49

But it is not the abortionist walking through streets with his kit looking for babies to kill.

55:57

It is mothers and fathers delivering the babies. How can we call it murder? How can we call it homicide?

56:04

And say, however, I'd like somebody involved that's actually in the majority of cases the principal person,

56:13

I would like her to have legal immunity, to never be seen as guilty, to herself be seen as a victim, and to suffer no consequences ever.

56:21

Again. Again. The fallacious reasoning. You can't, we can't climb ourselves out of that.

56:29

But I will say one more thing here. Think about the inconsistency here. Where is this coming from?

56:34

This emotional and not consistent argumentation. Emotion only, not consistency.

56:40

When somebody says, you know, yeah, it's murder and it's homicide, but we've got to think about what's going on in the culture right now and in society, and that's to blame.

56:48

It's the external thing that's to blame. It's nothing in her that's to blame. Okay, great. Now, do sex trafficking.

56:57

Do the cartels. What do I mean? Do those evils with the same reasoning.

57:04

Yeah, the guys in the cartels that are doing all the videos like decapitating people and like trying to strike fear in villages and neighborhoods and towns, you know, by like literally just mauling human beings and videotaping it so everyone sees what they'll do to you.

57:18

Those guys are just victims of their environment. You know? Yes, it's murder. I mean, yeah, it's murder.

57:24

They're decapitating a guy. They're disemboweling a guy. They're throwing a guy into a, what's that, tree machine?

57:31

I knew somebody. I don't even know. The wood chipper. Yeah. They're throwing him into a wood chipper, but you don't understand.

57:39

He didn't really want to do it. They grew up with this. It's just their environment. It's all environmental. It's happening around them.

57:45

Like, yeah, that was murder throwing the guy into the tree chipper, but you just got to understand where these guys come from.

57:52

These Sicarios and all these guys that are raised in this, it's just their environment. They're not really to blame.

57:58

Do you do that like that? Do you do cartels that way? Or how about sex trafficking? The guys that are involved in all these cells that do sex trafficking all over the world.

58:05

Do we really talk about it that way? Like, this is rape and kidnapping and this is enslavement of another human being, but the guys that are involved, they couldn't help themselves.

58:13

It's just their culture. It's their environment. That's what's causing them to do it. I'm sorry. That's not biblical reasoning.

58:20

That's not godly reasoning. It's not consistent reasoning. And we don't handle things like that in any other case, but oddly, we do here in the case of abortion.

58:28

And why? It is because we have been indoctrinated by an industry that does not stand on Christ's authority and God's Word as the final reference point.

58:37

They have a different doctrine. And it is a doctrinal issue. And their doctrine is heretical and it's inconsistent, and that's why you're seeing what you're seeing.

58:45

Anything else you want to say on that last point? I'm ready to go on. Okay, so the next point. You heard her say women don't want abortions, but then at another point in the discussion, this is said.

59:00

Ted, the most important issue here is a woman's bodily autonomy. Well, I would just go back to what others have said.

59:07

Bodily autonomy, when I get accused of being against a woman's bodily autonomy, I just kind of bring up the point that there's no other circumstance in which

59:17

I am against bodily autonomy for a woman. Have any kind of surgery that you want to have. Make whatever choices you want to make.

59:25

But when it comes to bodily autonomy, as we know, that is a separate body within the woman's body, and she no longer has the right to be making choices on life or death for that body.

59:37

And so to me, it seems like a silly argument when they make it because it really just doesn't make sense based on all of the scientific technology we have and the ultrasounds and everything that we know.

59:48

And we know that they know, and yet they continue to put this false argument forward every single time.

59:56

At one point in the discussion, she says, women don't want abortions, right? Like, it's the narrative of they're not guilty.

01:00:04

And then in this point, when talking about bodily autonomy, she says, with all the technology and everything we have today, they all know what's inside them.

01:00:11

She's talking about the woman. The woman. I completely missed that. The pro -choicer. Yeah, we know they know.

01:00:17

We know that they know what's in there. That it is a body, it is different from their body, and that it should have bodily autonomy.

01:00:25

By the way, that's true. I mean, and this is a help to everybody who's in this fight with us. When the leftists and the pro -aborts use bodily autonomy arguments, just immediately seize upon that and say, if you believe in bodily autonomy, then the baby in the womb has bodily autonomy.

01:00:40

Yeah, credit to the sister. That's the takedown right there. So fantastic, exactly. If you believe that human beings should have bodily autonomy, then welcome to the

01:00:49

Christian side, because that's our position. All human beings should have bodily autonomy.

01:00:54

You can't do to somebody's body something against their will. And so bodily autonomy arguments are arguments for our side.

01:01:02

They're borrowing bodily autonomy from the Christian perspective. And so she's right about that, but she makes the point that they know.

01:01:10

And this, my point here is not to belittle the sister. Praise God for the fact that she loves these children and she's trying to fight for them.

01:01:17

It's not to belittle. This is a plea, brothers and sisters. It is a plea for consistency.

01:01:23

This inconsistency is destroying us. It's devastating our ability to establish justice. On the one hand, all these women, they don't want to have abortions, right?

01:01:33

This narrative of they're victims. They just don't know. And then over here, when she's being great at what she does, she says, with all this technology and everything we know, they know.

01:01:42

We know that they know what they're doing. So they don't want it, but they know exactly what they're doing.

01:01:48

And you say, well, how could someone hold those inconsistencies coming into collision like that? And the answer is because you've adopted a tradition.

01:01:55

And that no one else can see it on that panel. Because they all have that consistency in their mind.

01:02:02

These women know. Because they all know. How can we not know? They know. We know.

01:02:07

They all know. These mothers know what they're doing. And no one's going to disagree with that on the panel because they know that that's true. But then comes the tradition.

01:02:14

Then comes the narrative, right? They're victims. They don't want to be having abortions. And again, we can...

01:02:20

But that wasn't even how she worded her sentence before. She said, I wrote it down, 96 % of the women that didn't have access to abortion when they wanted one.

01:02:31

Right. What? Right. When they wanted one, say they did not regret it.

01:02:36

So even in their own statements, it's dumbfounding. And then another moment.

01:02:44

And again, this is... Please, please understand, brothers and sisters. We want to fight against any kind of unrighteous disunity.

01:02:50

This is a plea. It's not to belittle this woman. I don't want anybody to say anything bad about her. I don't want people to trash her or hurt her or bring down her dignity or her value.

01:02:58

Don't do that. We are examining the claims. The claims. And now here's another moment from that discussion which goes unchallenged.

01:03:07

And that's the issue. By the same sister. You've done this so well.

01:03:12

Now do it for us. In other words, make the argument for evangelical Christians on conviction about why we should defend unborn human life.

01:03:22

Yeah, I mean, I think we know that every life is of great value and God has created us from the very first.

01:03:32

He knew us before He created the world. He had appointed our lives and so we know even before conception that our lives had value.

01:03:41

And so from the moment that conception happens, we are growing into those people that God created us to be.

01:03:48

And we know that the Bible says before we were born, He knew us in our mother's womb and that is true.

01:03:54

And He has a plan for every single life. And so He has created us with that value and we have, and no human being can take that away.

01:04:01

No human being can have the power to say that it is not valuable.

01:04:09

And so I think that really is the key thing here when we're talking about our value as image bearers.

01:04:17

Nobody has the right to kill another human. And we do mean nobody. Nobody has the right to say that life isn't valuable.

01:04:25

Let's key in on that word there. Nobody. Does that include the mother? The principal involved in the vast majority of abortions?

01:04:36

Does she not have the right? And when we say not the right, do we mean legally as well?

01:04:42

Because that's the core and key issue here that we need to keep putting our finger on.

01:04:48

This inconsistency is devastating us in terms of protecting the preborn from death.

01:04:54

And I will say it again and again and again. Not only have we saved these children and held them in our arms outside of mills locally at Apologia Church and tens of thousands across the country have ultimately been saved because of that effort.

01:05:09

But I have one of these in my home. I have a child who is about to be the victim of abortion twice in his life while he was in the womb.

01:05:18

And praise God, his life was preserved. His name is Augustine. He's three years old right now and he's the best thing that has ever happened to me in my life.

01:05:24

My family all agrees. He is such a tremendous gift to each and every one of us.

01:05:29

And his life was threatened with abortion. His life matters and we ought to protect him. Over 60 million like him have been executed and they continue to be executed because of inconsistencies happening within the movement that says they want to protect them from conception.

01:05:47

It's important. This is very important. Again, this is a plea to my brothers to pay attention to these inconsistencies because they're devastating us.

01:05:55

This was disheartening to me because I love Pastor Kevin DeYoung. We actually have some of his children's books at home.

01:06:04

Yeah, same. Beautifully done. Pastor DeYoung has done a lot of really good and important things and I'm just thankful for him and may

01:06:14

God bless his work. But this was a moment, again, that shows traditions that we've adopted even as pastors that if we were teaching on this subject,

01:06:25

I don't have any question in my mind that if Kevin DeYoung was teaching somebody from the

01:06:31

Bible on how they're supposed to approach life, all of life, he wouldn't hold to this inconsistency but I believe, and this is a plea to my brother here, that you've adopted an inconsistency, a tradition that goes against everything you know to be true and in this area of speaking the truth, standing on the truth, how does

01:06:52

God save people? He saves people with the truth. You confront sin biblically and within the church prophetically.

01:07:00

You don't focus in upon what's pragmatic, right? Like, you don't do prophetic ministry isn't pragmatic.

01:07:08

It is principled and I know that Pastor DeYoung would agree with me on that, is that the mission of the church is not to be pragmatic but to be principled and prophetic.

01:07:19

Here, you need to listen to this. Just in preaching the word and then, to any pastors out there, the pastoral prayer is your secret weapon.

01:07:35

Now, I don't mean that you sneak in partisan politics in the pastoral prayer but there is something about when you're explicitly speaking vertically and you're asking

01:07:45

God that to bear mention to these things, I mean, it was, it grieved me when

01:07:50

I heard either pastors let the Dobbs decision just pass by without any mention no opportunity to give thanks to God in public worship for one of the great moral victories of our time.

01:08:05

I want to address that and be very careful with how I address it. I'm going to say this.

01:08:11

The Dobbs case, we were involved with that in that we had our constitutional, our constitutional attorney,

01:08:18

Bradley Pierce, write an amicus brief in that case and so we participated,

01:08:24

Pastor DeYoung, in an amicus brief in the very case that overturned Roe v.

01:08:29

Wade and so we believed with all of our heart as you do that Roe v. Wade needed to end that it was a great moral evil that it led to the devastation of so many countless lives.

01:08:39

We believed that the court had the duty to reverse this decision to overturn it and so we argued in that case in the amicus brief that we helped to file with our attorney

01:08:49

Bradley Pierce. So I want to lay that on the table. Okay? Now in our amicus brief and you guys can please go look it up Bradley Pierce's amicus brief in the

01:08:57

Dobbs case. It's epic. It is epic. In our amicus brief he argued from the foundation in the table of authorities from scripture first and foremost then constitutionally and he actually argued in a consistent way that it not only needed to be overturned but the court needed to repent and that the court needed to establish justice for every pre -born human being in the country.

01:09:16

That was their duty. Okay? Did we rejoice when Roe v. Wade was overturned? We had a standing ovation at church.

01:09:24

However, the standing ovation at Apologia Church wasn't simply because this was a great moral victory.

01:09:31

The standing ovation that took place at Apologia Church was that now the excuse that legislators have made to thwart the bills of equal protection because they are fearful of the court is now removed.

01:09:44

That excuse can no longer be used any longer because now Roe is out of the way. So there were legislators in the states that said hey

01:09:50

I'm with you all the way. I would pass this legislation but Roe v. Wade is the law of the land.

01:09:55

It's not the law of the land. It never was the law of the land. Congress creates laws in our nation not the Supreme Court.

01:10:00

And so it never was a law. The Democrats understood that because they tried to actually make it law and they're still trying to make it law because it never was law.

01:10:08

All that to say legislators said I agree with you. We have to establish justice. They need equal protection but we can't do it now because of Roe.

01:10:16

That was the primary argument. The primary argument by Alan Seaball Representative Seaball in the state of Louisiana from the floor.

01:10:24

Roe v. Wade is the law of the land. So that cowardice led to no more protection for these children and no protection from these children.

01:10:32

So when Roe v. Wade was taken out of the way we rejoiced not because it was a moral victory but because it was no longer going to be used as an excuse.

01:10:42

Yeah. It wasn't a moral victory for Pilate to wash his hands of the blood of Jesus. Right. When someone says and this is a plea to my pastor,

01:10:51

Pastor DeYoung this is a plea to you this is not to belittle you or to anybody to attack his character.

01:10:58

Do not dare do such a thing to Pastor DeYoung. It's an inconsistency and when we call it one of the great moral victories of our day it actually wasn't a moral victory.

01:11:08

God strikes straight blows with crooked sticks. Thank God for that. But the court actually didn't provide protection to children.

01:11:16

It didn't actually undermine any of the evil, evil reasoning that was happening in Roe in terms of what's actually happening in Roe.

01:11:24

It actually cowardly said back to the states you decide. Now of course we want the states to have the power as lesser magistrates to say to the higher magistrates no when they're sinning.

01:11:36

So we do believe in states' rights and the authority of lesser magistrates. We want that. That's a Christian position.

01:11:42

It's a very Presbyterian kind of style tradition. It's very good. But it wasn't a great moral victory because actually the court said to the states you decide if you can kill them.

01:11:52

Yeah. That's not a great moral victory. It actually was very inconsistent. You reinforce the kind of autonomy that says act without regard to what

01:12:03

God commands. Right. Do what's right in your own eyes when it comes to these children. I would define a moral victory as something that's consistent with God's law word.

01:12:12

I would call that a moral victory. I would call equal protection for all humans from conception and fertilization a great moral victory.

01:12:19

I would call the abomination of rape a great moral victory because that's what God's word says.

01:12:25

I would call the abolition of slavery a great moral victory because that's what God says.

01:12:30

I would not call something a great moral victory that actually says to the states you can kill your children if you want to.

01:12:35

It's your decision. You're the state. That's not a great moral victory. I need to address that because actually we need to think about the

01:12:42

Dobbs case in a different way as Christians. Praise God. God removed it. It's no longer an excuse. It's out of the way. But it actually wasn't a great moral victory according to God's standards because the court did not stand on the truth.

01:12:55

They did not stand on the truth consistently. But there's more from Pastor DeYoung. I think two really big dangers among conservative evangelical

01:13:03

Christians and pastors should be aware of both of these. One of them is that some Christians will not be realistic.

01:13:09

That is, they'll say, okay, great. Let's get the legislation right now that is going to be everything we could ever want that is going to outlaw abortion from the moment of conception.

01:13:20

Anything less than that we're not even going to mess around with it. That's not how politics works. That's not realistic. But the other danger ...

01:13:27

This broke my heart. I listened to this live. Pastor ... You know he's talking about those who hold to abolition.

01:13:33

Yeah. Pastor, please hear the plea. Please. From a brother and a fellow pastor and minister of the gospel, this is not how we teach our people to fight with God's truth in the world.

01:13:46

That's not politically practical. That's not how politics works. Let me just go on the record here and say this.

01:13:54

Maybe that's not how politics works. Maybe that's not how politics works.

01:14:00

But that is how prophetic ministry works. There is a difference between prophetic ministry and petty partisan politics.

01:14:13

It's why pastors hate politics, the petty partisan stuff, so much. It's because it's not principled.

01:14:19

It's compromising. It's not grounded in truth. And so, as pastors, do we actually teach our people to be pragmatic rather than principled?

01:14:30

Because, Pastor DeYoung, there's no other way to take your words here. There's just not.

01:14:35

In terms of the church and our responsibility to speak the truth and to be salt and light. You just argued that we can't get this and do this this way.

01:14:45

We can't fight for equal protection. We can't fight for abolition because it's not politically expedient to do so or politically possible to do so.

01:14:54

Or the culture isn't ready or society isn't ready for, you know, prosecuting this party.

01:14:59

Tell the apostles that in the first century. Say, you know what you're doing? It's not actually possible to do right now.

01:15:07

Right? Like, it's not politically possible to do right now. It's always later. To do right now. No, we operate based upon scripture and principle, not pragmatism.

01:15:16

We're not supposed to focus on, what is actually practical right here to do in the area of justice? No, we say, what is actually principled to do here in justice?

01:15:24

You know, I imagine we can pull together so many quotes from the 19th century where Christians were trying to fight against the issue of slavery.

01:15:33

And so many people were saying, it's just not practical. There's too many problems that can arise from that. Like, what are you going to do with all these black people when you release them?

01:15:40

Like, how are they going to take care of themselves? And on and on and on. Well, thank God we had people in the vein of Wilberforce who said, this is an abomination.

01:15:48

These people are in God's image and this needs to be ended immediately. And just an encouragement to my brothers and sisters.

01:15:54

I just said this to one of our legislators yesterday. Just an encouragement. William Wilberforce, 1789 is when he starts fighting in the parliament against the issue of slavery and abolishing slavery.

01:16:06

Oftentimes, we think about history in really weird ways. We think of Wilberforce, he comes in, he's like, here's the word of the

01:16:12

Lord and he gives the word and everyone goes, oh my goodness, how could we? And everyone just stops. And there's the abolition of the slave trade in England.

01:16:20

That's not how it happened, actually. In 1789, you have him coming in and rejected in parliament.

01:16:26

And then the next year, rejected in parliament. And then the next year, rejected in parliament. Almost 20 years passed.

01:16:33

Almost 20 years passed before the abolition of the slave trade because of the Christian witness and the law word of God.

01:16:39

Almost 20 years. I mean, I can even imagine the disheartening moments where you're preaching against it.

01:16:46

And once William Wilberforce preached for three hours, he had a three -hour speech.

01:16:51

Even you've never done that. I've not done that. He had a three -hour speech in parliament against the issue of slavery and it failed.

01:16:58

Three hours he spoke and it failed. They said no. You know, people just rejected.

01:17:04

It took time, but it was consistent Christian witness. It wasn't what was practical.

01:17:10

It wasn't what was politically expedient. It was principled. It was based upon God's word.

01:17:16

It was based upon the Christian worldview. And I'm sorry. The Christian church is not supposed to come against the evils of the world based upon what's practical.

01:17:29

We are supposed to do it prophetically. And that's a major failure here. And I want to just say there's a tradition that has crept into the

01:17:36

Christian church in terms of how are you going to fight these evils? Are you going to do it with salt? Are you going to do it with light? Are you going to do it with the truth? Well, not totally.

01:17:44

Maybe we'll just do some. We'll polish off the edges a little bit so it's not so rough because we're just not going to get what we want if we just tell the truth.

01:17:54

I'm sorry. I know that these people on this panel all believe that what's in the womb is human from the moment of fertilization.

01:18:01

I know that they believe it's in the image of God. I know that they know that this is murder. I know that. We're all on the same team.

01:18:07

We are. We're all on the same team. But there's traditions here that have been adopted by an industry that is not operating on the basis of the

01:18:18

Word of God. And there's the problem. Yeah, I mean, I guess the only other thing that could be said to that, it often comes up in the form of an ejection.

01:18:28

We can't do this completely because the culture is not ready for it. Society is not ready for it. And we should ask ourselves why that is.

01:18:35

Well, why is it not ready for this? Is it because maybe we haven't been preaching

01:18:41

God's law and his gospel? Is that the real reason?

01:18:47

Because, as you pointed out, the church is never to take their cues from the culture in terms of what's culturally acceptable or what society will tolerate.

01:18:57

The prophetic ministry demands righteousness and trust God with the results. And if we want the culture to be ready, then we need to preach the truth.

01:19:07

And so maybe the reason, in your estimation, why it isn't ready for that is because we haven't.

01:19:14

It's our job to sow the seed. It's God's job to bring the harvest.

01:19:20

And that's what Wilberforce obviously was keen on demonstrating with his life because were those 20 years a failure?

01:19:30

The time it took from the time it was introduced to the time it was actually abolished? Were those 20 years a failure or was he teaching an entire culture through his efforts to uphold righteousness?

01:19:43

The truth. What was the plumb line? What was the standard? It was righteousness. That's what the message was.

01:19:49

Let's do as quick as we can. I know this is a long episode today. Yeah, not bad.

01:19:55

No, it's okay. Two guys that talk on one stream.

01:20:01

Do you think we can do this in 10 minutes? I mean, I'm willing to try. Let's try it. Sorry for losing you guys.

01:20:08

President Bart Barber of the SBC, Southern Baptist Convention wrote an article titled,

01:20:16

Working Toward the End of Abortion, a Pro -Life Response to Abolitionism's Critiques.

01:20:23

And you have stuff ready to go here. So, I think I'll let you sort of lead. There's a little bit of, yeah, in terms of what we should interact with, just,

01:20:30

I mean, quickly. There's talk about exceptions. There's talk about ectopic pregnancies.

01:20:36

And really, the whole issue with that is the definition of when life begins, right?

01:20:44

Barber is arguing, he's favorably supporting this idea that life begins when a fertilized egg implants in the uterus.

01:20:53

And how that interacts with the question of ectopic pregnancies and how our bill would actually come into collision with that and women wouldn't get the care that they need.

01:21:02

I don't know if there's too much to say about that other than fertilization has meant and always will mean the moment that the male gamete comes into contact with the female gamete and a unique, genetically distinct life with its own

01:21:17

DNA is present. And that's the point from which we protect life as opposed to the implantation of the egg within the uterus.

01:21:26

So, I mean, there's a couple things to say about that. Well, this point here, he makes a point in the article. There's a lot here, so I'm not going to read every bit of it.

01:21:34

But he tries to answer some important questions. And his first point, number one, is should abortion laws contain an exception for cases where the life of the mother is in imminent danger and the baby cannot be rescued?

01:21:47

He says, of course they should. If the baby cannot live yet live outside the mother's womb and the mother dies, the baby is also going to die.

01:21:55

When society faces a choice between two deaths or one, we should choose to save the only life that we can save. And by the way,

01:22:00

I'm not sure, Brother Barber, if you're aware of this, but that is also the abolitionist position.

01:22:07

Right. So you frame this in such a way as that you're arguing with the abolitionists when actually the abolitionists believe this.

01:22:14

He makes mention of our bill, our bill, in Louisiana. In the line here, he says, the key phrase is the first one.

01:22:21

Waters is saying that taking the life of the ectopic baby is not abortion because pregnancy begins at implantation into the uterus.

01:22:28

But an abolitionist bill in Louisiana explicitly sought to change that definition of when pregnancy begins.

01:22:34

Louisiana law already makes abortion illegal. What?

01:22:40

No, it doesn't. Not for everybody. Not for everybody. Mr. Barber, you're wrong, sir.

01:22:45

Brother, you're wrong. Louisiana law already does not make abortion illegal. No, it doesn't.

01:22:51

Women in Louisiana are still killing their children with impunity because of your position, because of the position of people like you.

01:22:58

HB 813, introduced earlier this year, sought to remove all language about implantation from Louisiana's existing laws.

01:23:04

That's because it's inconsistent. That's because it's not Christian. That's because human life begins at the moment of fertilization.

01:23:11

That is a fact. It is a biblically definable fact. It is something that you can defend from scripture and biology.

01:23:18

The reason that it was removed is because of the devastating things that people do with that. Human life begins at fertilization.

01:23:25

That's a fact. So our bill sought to remove that, not to allow for women who are in a situation where they can actually lose their life as well, would not have the right to be saved.

01:23:38

As a matter of fact, the reason our bill didn't need to put that language of the life of the mother is because the

01:23:44

Louisiana state law already had it. Yeah, the point is treating pre -born homicide the same as born homicide.

01:23:51

Yeah, so Mr. Barber is actually, I mean this with all due respect, again, this is a plea to you as a brother towards consistency.

01:23:58

You're ignorant about the bill in HB 813 in Louisiana. You're ignorant about it. You should have called us.

01:24:04

We're the ones that are responsible for that, along with Pastor Brian Gunter, Bradley Pierce, and of course

01:24:11

Danny McCormick in Louisiana, but that's our bill. You could have easily contacted me and asked questions.

01:24:17

The reason for the change of language was to define human life the way that Scripture does and the way that biology does.

01:24:23

It is from the moment of fertilization. That is a fact. That's why, and it did not do anything to hurt women or harm women who are in troubling situations where their life is in danger.

01:24:36

As a matter of fact, our legislation didn't even need to mention the fact that of course you can save the life of the mother.

01:24:42

It's already there. It's already there in Louisiana state law, so you're ignorant about Louisiana's law, you're ignorant about HB 813, and I would encourage you in the future when you write an article like this to get to know your opponent.

01:24:55

And I mean that with all due respect. Get to know your opponent before you write the article, otherwise you leave behind a public record of ignorance because the abolitionists, us, and others like us who put these bills of equal protection in believe that yes, if you're in a fallen world in a situation where you can save a life, it is a rescue operation and you're required to try to preserve human life.

01:25:19

That's what God's law teaches. And so our bill HB 813 didn't need to mention that because it's already in Louisiana state code that doctors have the right and they have the duty to preserve human life and in a case like that where an ectopic pregnancy actually happens, you're talking about I think it's less than 0 .5

01:25:39

% or in these cases less than 0 .5 % of abortions but this isn't actually an abortion, it's a rescue operation.

01:25:47

You are inadvertently taking human life because you're trying to preserve another one or both will die.

01:25:52

So again, you're arguing against a straw man. So point one is a straw man.

01:25:58

Yeah. Next point, the next question he asks, are women who get an abortion victims? Of course they are.

01:26:04

Southern Baptists have said so consistently for decades. Prominent pro -life organizations have consistently held this position and then he talks about the decades long campaign of groups like Planned Parenthood and NARAL, how they indoctrinate women basically and how that's horrible but then the next question, are women who get an abortion culpable in the abortion?

01:26:21

So this is the collision we were talking about beforehand and here it is. So first question, are women who get an abortion victims?

01:26:27

Of course they are. Next question, are women who get an abortion culpable in the abortion? Of course they are.

01:26:33

So they're victims meaning they're innocent and not guilty. Victim. Innocent. Not guilty.

01:26:38

Are they culpable? Of course they are. So you can't hold those things together. They seem like such an inconsistency because they are.

01:26:48

They actually are inconsistent. Now if you want to say is there a category of women who are actually victims in abortion,

01:26:59

I would say number one, yes, in the instances of coercion and sex trafficking and those sorts of things, there is a category of women, very small category of women who are actual victims in that way and a bill of equal protection would actually go after the one who coerces.

01:27:14

It wouldn't go after the woman. So there is that victim in abortion. Yes, that actually happens.

01:27:20

It is a very small amount in the number of abortions that take place. Very, very small.

01:27:25

But there is actually a victim in abortion. And this is actually every woman in the

01:27:32

West is a victim in terms of this discussion about abortion. They are all victims.

01:27:38

They have been victimized by the pro -life establishment. The establishment that tells them they are not guilty.

01:27:44

The establishment that tells them they should be able to do this with impunity. The establishment that tells them that they don't actually need forgiveness for this sin.

01:27:53

And there are women who say that to these women in counseling. You didn't do anything wrong.

01:27:59

You are a victim just like your baby sweetheart. And so they have been victimized by the pro -life establishment.

01:28:05

So there are those categories of women who are the victims in this arena of abortion. Yeah. And continuing on, jumping down a little bit further.

01:28:13

But didn't this essay just declare the woman to be morally and spiritually culpable in abortion? If so, why should abortion laws not hold them legally culpable?

01:28:23

Surely there is some prosecutable role that the woman plays? Is she guilty of murder for hire?

01:28:29

It depends. And this goes to what you were just saying. It's almost like, you know, if we could create a situation where a woman, you know, presumed to be innocent, of course, you know, was, of course, decided to be prosecuted upon by the prosecuting attorneys, and they actually demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that she did something and she was convicted by a jury of her peers, that there would be, oh, wait a minute, we have a system like that.

01:28:58

It's called the justice system. Right. And so all the bill is doing, you're right, it does depend, and that's for the justice system to figure out.

01:29:06

This is why I say Brother Barber is showing ignorance here about these bills and this whole entire discussion because he doesn't seem to understand that that's precisely what the bill of equal protection does is it puts it into the category of the justice system.

01:29:20

For the justice system to work out the details of what kind of homicide is this? What degree of murder is this?

01:29:27

Was there someone who else, is there another principal person involved who was actually involved in coercion? It goes into the justice system and so this goes into the justice system so there's cross -examination, there's witnesses, there's evidence, and those sorts of things but the emphasis is going to be upon the child whose life was taken.

01:29:44

Right? And it's not going to give somebody immunity right off the bat and this gets further.

01:29:50

In question number four, should abortion laws mandate the prosecution of women who seek or obtain an abortion?

01:29:57

I think not. I think it is unjust, unnecessary, and unwise to include in abortion laws the prosecution of women who seek to obtain an abortion.

01:30:08

Here's one thing I'm going to say off the bat. Again, ignorance on this issue and Mr. Barber's in his position, ignorance.

01:30:16

None of our bills mention women. Yeah, there's one side doing the genderizing here.

01:30:22

It's not the side of equal protection. All the talk of women here is coming from one side and it's all the talk of protecting a gender and giving that gender immunity.

01:30:33

You're doing all the discussing about gender. Our bills simply say justice, equal protection from fertilization, protected equally inside the womb and outside the womb.

01:30:46

The unborn life is as valuable and worthy of protection as the born life. You treat the five -month -old in utero as you treat them the same as you treat the five -year -old in his bedroom.

01:30:59

Same. And it doesn't mention, listen, it criminalizes conduct.

01:31:05

It does not criminalize a class or a gender. All the talk about gender is coming from that side.

01:31:12

All the talk coming from this side is in terms of consistency, equal protection and what actually is being done.

01:31:19

So we're talking about criminalizing behavior and they're talking about a gender which reveals something.

01:31:25

Yes, that's the point. It reveals that they are holding on to a doctrinal position that a woman should be able to kill her child in the womb with impunity and immunity, legal immunity.

01:31:41

You heard him say it with his own words. Should abortion laws mandate the prosecution of women who seek or obtain an abortion?

01:31:47

I think not. I think it is unjust, unnecessary, and unwise to include in abortion laws the prosecution of women who seek, who seek themselves or obtain an abortion.

01:32:01

So he doesn't believe that a woman who willfully takes the life of her child, who seeks it, he said so, these are his words, they're on record, he doesn't believe that she should be prosecuted ever because he says it would be unjust to prosecute the woman who seeks the abortion to dismember her child.

01:32:24

Which you would rightly ask Brother Barber, well Brother Barber, don't you believe this is human life from the moment of fertilization?

01:32:31

Don't you believe it's in the image of God? Don't you believe it's the unjustified taking of human life? Yes, yes, and yes to all that.

01:32:36

He would say yes to all of it. But you think she should be able to do it and be protected? His answer, I think that's just.

01:32:43

Protect her. She has the right to kill her child without being prosecuted. And there's a reason why the show opened with Proverbs 17 15.

01:32:52

He who acquits the guilty and he who condemns the righteous are equally alike in abomination to God.

01:32:59

Do you have more? I think I'm content to let it rest there. I think we should. Yeah. We could do more and maybe we will.

01:33:05

Maybe we will. But again, this is a plea to our brothers and sisters because again, and this is the final word here.

01:33:12

Again, we are in an unprecedented moment right now in that we have these bills of equal protection going in across the entire country.

01:33:21

It's everywhere. It's happening across the states. And please pray for us first of all because I was just saying this as we came in.

01:33:28

All glory to God. Our cup is overflowing that God has given us the opportunity and legislators and these bills of equal protection that we're participating in.

01:33:37

Many of these bills are our bills. Many of these bills are our brothers and sisters with other organizations and churches.

01:33:43

They're their bills. We're helping them. They're helping us. But the point is this is happening across the country and the greatest enemy at the moment is this tradition.

01:33:56

It's crazy to say that. It is so crazy to say that. That the biggest fight we're having right now

01:34:07

Now that Roe's gone. Now that Roe's gone. Yeah, this is it. And before, but now that it's gone is with people who profess to agree with this position.

01:34:18

And I know it shouldn't be that way and I know it's confusing maybe to some. Like how can that be? And the answer, if you've done your homework on theology, is tradition.

01:34:30

Man -made traditions that void the Word of God. Jesus did that in Matthew chapter 15.

01:34:35

He took what they thought was a divine tradition. They held to it as true all the way from Moses, the Corban rule.

01:34:41

And he said, You say. But Moses says, in quote

01:34:46

Scripture, he says, thus, he shows the contradiction, and he says, thus, you invalidate the

01:34:51

Word of God for the sake of your tradition, teaching as commandments the doctrines of men. Or doctrines, the commandments of men.

01:34:58

I forget which one it is. I think you got it, yeah. But the point is that Jesus, who is the Lord of glory, God incarnate, shows us how to deal with these problems.

01:35:06

He says, take what you say, take what God says. Compare it. If your word contradicts God's word, you are voiding

01:35:12

God's word and holding on to a man -made tradition. And this, brothers and sisters, however cherished, however emotional, is a man -made tradition.

01:35:22

Can we just say this? However well -meaning. However well -intentioned. However seemingly compassionate you want to appear.

01:35:29

Yeah. That's the truth. Brothers and sisters, join us in this work.

01:35:35

Preach the truth. Come to the rallies. Come to the hearings that are going to be held. We need you in these states.

01:35:40

Again, don't forget, guys, what's coming up in the next couple of days here. If you guys are in Oklahoma, you've got

01:35:47

Bill 402, SB 402. It's authored by Senator Warren Hamilton under the direction of Attorney Bradley Pierce.

01:35:54

It calls for the complete abolition of abortion. It's equal protection through and through. This coming Tuesday, February 7th at 10 a .m.,

01:36:01

they are gathering for a short rally on the South Plaza at the State Capitol, Oklahoma. It's Oklahoma City, right?

01:36:08

Right. Oklahoma City, Psalm singing and organized lobbying for SB 402 in the Capitol.

01:36:13

Break for lunch, and then they're going to go to a mini -conference 2 to 7 p .m. at Edmonds First Baptist Church in Edmond, Oklahoma.

01:36:20

Oklahoma, guys, be there. We've got a rally coming up in Kentucky, one in South Carolina. I'll fill you guys in details. I can tell you now.

01:36:27

Frankfurt, Kentucky, February 17th, Abolish Abortion Oklahoma, End Abortion Now, and others working together with pastors across the state.

01:36:34

Rally, February 17th, Frankfurt, Kentucky, where the Capitol is, and then we've got a

01:36:40

Capitol, we have a Capitol rally with our brothers in South Carolina. There are 10 co -sponsors to the bill right now for the bill in South Carolina.

01:36:48

It is happening at the South Carolina State Capitol, February 25th. I'll give you more details as I get more, but these are going to be happening.

01:36:55

I need you to join us as we go to these places. Pray for our work. Our cup is overflowing. I'm Jeff. They call me the