June 13, 2018 Show with Dr. Craig A. Carter on “Interpreting Scripture with the Great Tradition”

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This is Chris arms and your host of iron sharpens iron radio.

Wish me all a happy Wednesday on this 13th day of June 2018.

I am delighted to have back as a returning guest today on iron sharpens

iron radio.

Dr. Craig a Carter who is professor of theology at Tyndale University College in

Toronto, Ontario Canada and theologian in residence at the

West knee Heights Baptist Church in Ajax, Ontario.

Today we are going to be addressing his book which came highly recommended very highly recommended

by dr Richard Barcelos who is on the faculty over at the IRB s

Theological seminary which is launching its first semester this September

and it is my honor and privilege to welcome you to discuss Interpreting scripture with the great tradition.

Dr. Craig a Carter great to be with you Chris.

Yes, I don't know if you were aware that dr. Richard Barcelos Highly recommended your book.

In fact, he he is the one that highly urged me.

Strongly urged me to interview you on the subject of this book of yours.

But he also he also sends his greetings to you.

Great.

Well, I'm going to give our listeners our email address.

It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris A -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least.

Your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private

matter.

That's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And before we go into our discussion at hand, dr. Carter once again if you could let

our listeners know something about Tyndale University College where you serve as professor of

theology and also the West knee Heights Baptist Church in Ajax, Ontario.

Praise God and we'll be giving contact information later on in the program.

Not only for the university and seminary but for the church as well.

The there's an interesting title that you have for this book Obviously interpreting scripture

with the great tradition.

What is the great tradition?

Christianity.

It is rooted in the it's the theological tradition that's rooted in the old

and new

Testament carried on by

a

quorum

that I actually.

Tradition

it's it's the

undivided

church

theology of

when

Calvin revived

undergird at the church

from the beginning to the.

Well, just to let you know, I happen to have the privilege of Interviewing. Dr.

Thomas Odin before he went home to be with the Lord.

I interviewed him on July 30th in 2015 on his what a biography a

change of heart a personal and theological memoir and he was quite a remarkable man.

At one time highly beloved amongst liberals, which he was one.

And then by God's mercy and grace he was transformed By discovering

the true Christ in the true gospel of the scriptures.

Yes,

and Thomas

Odin.

Interdenominational

Christian unity

needs common

denominator

that'll

fit now

obviously.

Judging from the title of your book.

You believe that much of Christendom is involved in

Improper exegesis.

They have a flawed very flawed hermeneutic.

Can you give us some ways and reasons why you think that?

There needs to be an alternative approach to exegesis and

hermeneutics.

We have two hours I.

Seminary that we are to interpret what

the original author

looks about one single.

They

gave it

as a

type

of

Christ

or Moses.

Is a

plan

being.

Do we have a

listener?

In Bangor, Maine John.

Who says I have heard that in the Orthodox Jewish synagogues?

They will not read aloud Isaiah 53.

Is this true or is it just a rumor spread amongst we who are Christians?

That actually lends credence to what I just where our listener was saying

Well John in Bangor, Maine, please give us your full mailing address There in Bangor, Maine because you have won a

free copy of interpreting scripture with the great tradition compliments of our friends at Baker

books specifically Baker academic and Be a little patient In

waiting for the book because the books have not yet arrived.

They are on their way though.

We have been reassured by the good folks at Baker so thank you very much for contributing your great

question today and Those will be shipped out to or should I say that book will be shipped out to you

by our friends at CVB BS calm Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

Who ships out all of our winners in the iron trip and Zion radio audience?

The Bibles and books and DVDs and CDs and other things they win By submitting questions

like you just did.

Thank you very much for your your contribution today.

Let's see here.

We have a first -time questioner Denny in

Farmington, Minnesota.

Hello, dr. Craig Carter.

I have a rather short question though.

It probably has a long answer and implications.

What do you think about the relation between presuppositional ism or covenantal apologetics

and Tomism or the classical tradition.

I myself am a M of a Vantillian tradition and have noticed how many?

Seemed to have scorned it in favor of Tomism.

However from my view, I don't think they are necessarily enemies.

If I were to describe myself more specifically I Would be a Vantillian who

leans and uses the classical tradition.

I feel that proper presuppositional ism may help to correct certain

aspects of the classical tradition.

But ultimately are not enemies may.

Maybe I am ignorant of certain conflicts that exist and if so, it would be good and

interesting to see what they are.

Thanks, Denny and Farmington, Minnesota.

It's somehow connected with the 13th century Roman Catholic scholar Thomas Aquinas, isn't it?

Well,

of course, that's the

previous Christian tradition with Aristotelian ideas.

Or welcome

the doctors

down the theological.

I have learned and resourced my

movement getting

into

his brand and

Aristotelian is

not.

Just in

the end for

example, I think the

Cappadocia on

analogy.

How the Cappadocians didn't you promise is

more precise about is essentially saying the same thing and that

was revelatory.

That made me in the

tradition.

Then I was given to believe part of the problem with promises a lot of people.

The only contact they have with his thoughts will be in a philosophy course either an introductory course

or or in a or a philosophy of religion course and There will be some excerpts from his

Summa Theologica about existence of God and that's all that they will know

about Thomas.

That's I did an honored BA in philosophy.

That's basically what I came away knowing about Thomas.

I came away knowing that he had some arguments for the existence of God and then I learned about Human can't critique of them

and and that was it.

I did not see Thomas as deeply rooted in the tradition.

I was not taught that Thomas was primarily did you know his day job was commenting on Scripture?

That was that was what he lectured on most of the time.

He wrote many commentaries on John on Hebrews on Isaiah on

many books of the Bible and

You

love

ring

it just point

to one book that's coming out.

But I think

holds great and

he's gonna be my guest discussing that in about two weeks or so.

Really?

Well that

great.

Thank you, Denny in Farmington, Minnesota, and not only have you won a free copy of

Dr. Carter's book that we are addressing right now Interpreting Scripture with the Great

Tradition.

You've also won a free New American Standard Bible since you are a first -time questioner.

Please make sure we have your full mailing address there in Farmington, Minnesota,

and I hope that you keep Sending in questions for guests in the future on iron sharpens iron radio.

Thank you very much before I move on from

Thomism.

I Have had guests on this program who are reformed and some of them

are very hostile against Thomism and they say that it is

destroying the fabric of Reform theology.

Some of them had a great deal of Disappointment with the late. Dr. R. C.

Sproul over his connection with it.

Are they Misunderstanding this.

Is it really that much of a threat?

To a reformed understanding of Scripture.

What is the reason they get so angry other than the fact that Thomas Aquinas was a

clearly a Catholic scholar from from the 13th century.

But.

Obviously, there is a mixture of Those who are among the church fathers

in relationship to how Roman they were.

Some were obviously teaching before the Catholic Church was truly Roman.

But if you could explain to me because I lack a lot of knowledge on this subject as well.

So you're saying like Trent was really what gave birth to the Roman

Catholic Church.

Yeah, I mean when we talk about Trent that's

very problematic from a From a Protestant reform perspective,

but when we're talking about the 13th century, it's a different.

It's a century has yet rejected the Reformation.

And and so it's a now I would say that as you read Thomas Aquinas Summa Theologica,

I tell my students that the best stuff is at the beginning by the

end in the

Trinitarian and Christological Orthodoxy and.

And.

There's a lot of confusion here.

And I think part of the confusion originates from Ben Charles Tility

at

a very very overly schematic putting

together a way that the reason that was being on

Regenerate reason and if you understand come home is in in that way.

It sounds really bad and and it is bad would be bad

about and I think that what's interesting here.

And and what we need to ask ourselves is why is it that it

that if you go back to

the look at John Owen?

He is a he's a reformed Thomas these time.

I meant my mentor the late John Webster at

the end of his life.

Why is it

that the early reformed

when people say well, well, you know

he has shown on Calvin had somebody in mind when

he talked about the scholastics in the Institutes and He had in mind specifically the Faculty of

Theology at the University of Paris and he had in mind The

nominalist entry that that's

Aquinas on

Bill when John Calvin is talking about the scholastics.

He's not talking and

Owens

and I found

much of use in to value there that

the modern Vantillian

movement

analyzing he's talking

and he understands

that to

have

reformed

faith.

Then the reformed faith as with liberal Protestantism.

And and that's

because of this

bedoxy that we shooting of what is

liberal theology and what went wrong from the Vantillians and in terms of Analyzing what it is that needs to be

rejected what in my understanding what needs to be rejected is notodoxy

of Thomas Aquinas it what needs to be rejected is primarily

reformed Roman and then the Proposal.

By the way, if anybody listening wants to get a hold of the classic work by Jay Gresham Machen

Founder of the Orthodox Presbyterian denomination during the fundamentalist modernist controversy you can

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bbs .com who sponsored the iron sharpens iron radio program and make sure that you tell Todd

and Patty Jennings that you heard about That book from Chris Arnz and an iron sharpens iron radio.

We're going to.

What I meant to mention.

Chris, you're right.

Yes, and I want to read to you before we go to our first break a

Question that I actually forwarded to you. Dr. Carter, so you could look it over during the break.

But I'll read it now and you could answer it later.

A Joey in Clifton, New Jersey Says dear. Dr. Carter listening to your comments.

You seem to contrast the great tradition with modern liberal forms of interpretation that would deny

the supernatural Aspect of Scripture, but you also seem to contrast it with more mainstream

hermeneutics that missed the Chris that miss the Christocentric nature of

the Old Testament.

So I'm wondering are you contrasting the great tradition with liberalism or with other Orthodox forms of

interpretation?

Can you please clarify this?

That's Joey and Clifton, New Jersey, and we'll have you answer that When we return from the break if anybody else would like to

join us on the air.

Our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name.

City and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with dr Craig a Carter after these messages from our sponsors.

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For your kindness and keep sending in questions for our guests on iron sharpens iron radio.

And we are back now with our guest today.

Dr. Craig a Carter professor of theology at Tyndale University College and we are discussing his book

interpreting scripture with the great tradition.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And please give us your first name your city and state and country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and

we had just a moment ago a question that I Read to you and

also emailed to you.

Dr. Carter, and I will Read it again for our listeners who may have just tuned in

this is a question from Joey in Clifton, New Jersey and

Joey says Let's see here.

I've got to enlarge the fonts again because I accidentally exited out of Joey's question.

Dear, dr. Carter listening to your comments.

You seem to contrast the great tradition with Ma with modern liberal forms of interpretation that would

deny the supernatural aspect of scripture.

Well, you also seem to contrast it with more mainstream hermeneutics that miss the Christo centric

nature of the Old Testament.

So I'm wondering are you contrasting the great tradition with liberalism or with other orthodox forms of

interpretation?

Can

you

please

clarify the

enlightenment

to be developed for and

begun now

to affect the

Roman Catholic

and it is also

becoming influential within Evangelical

and all pre

-modern

exegesis and

is not

important.

The two

points that

I want.

I think that what we need to do is reform our understanding our theory of hermeneutics and.

We need to go back to the beginning and we need to begin with deciding what is the Bible and that if we believe it Is a

supernatural revelation from God a unique book in all the world, then we can't interpret it like any other book.

We have to interpret it on the basis of inspiration.

So we don't use methodological naturalism.

For example, let me give you an example of what I'm talking about.

There's a quotation at the beginning of chapter 7 from a gun 31.

Here's what a thing our Lord said on the cross into your hands.

I commit my spirit in 23 46.

When we hear those words of his in the gospel and recognize them as part of this song We should not doubt

that he had good

reasons for issue that in the psalm He is

origination

of

the

song

that

gives

us a bit

we can ask

those who

it

is

thing.

Well,

we promise it

came

out of

the

Enlightenment.

Well, thank you, Joey and Clifton, New Jersey make sure that you get us your full mailing address there in

Clifton because you have also won a free copy of interpreting scripture with a great tradition.

Compliments of our friends at Baker academic and also Compliments of our friends at CV bbs

.com Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service who will be shipping it out to you at no charge to you or to us.

We have Joe in Slovenia Who says dear brothers Chris and

Craig.

Thank you both for bringing us the meatier topics so much in need in the

spiritually protein starved church.

In the book endorsements, I was intrigued by this statement Carter's

Contemplative logic is irrefutable if scripture participates in the Word of God.

Then we are surely right to see Christ Sacramentally present also in the Old Testament

scriptures, please unpack what that means.

What is meant by a contemplative logic?

Scripture participates in the Word of God and Christ sacramentally is Present in the

Old Testament scriptures.

Thanks for giving us substantial things to chew on.

That's Joe and Slovenia.

That's a great question for that

that's

that's

exegetical

research

that theology is

primarily

of answering the question.

What are we to do?

How should we live?

How should we act very much?

I know you see this in evangelical preaching though.

The the focus is all on how can the Bible be useful to you?

How can we how can we?

How can we make it practical and make it relevant to to us?

We have our concerns.

We we know what we want and Can the Bible be made relevant to what we already know and what we already.

What we need to do is

Incarnation

and his words

a unit

each

now.

We live in a modern world

energy

interacting

and the

writers

that I think

have done the most.

So if

you want to

understand those of

Narnia

and the

Lord of the

Rings

and so can call it

many

naturalist

to

the idea

Of material.

Well, thank

you Joe and

Slovenia.

You have also won a free copy of dr.

Carter's book that we were addressing interpreting scripture with the great tradition.

Thank you so much for providing an American address where your daughter lives in Georgia so that CV BBS comm

can ship it out to her at a much more affordable price.

And Keep listening and keep spreading the word about iron trip and Zion radio in Slovenia and beyond.

We're going to our midway break, which is a longer break.

It's a 12 -minute break.

Please be patient with us.

This is a longer break because grace life radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida requires

a 12 -minute break between our two major segments because they air their own advertising.

They're in Lake City, Florida during that break.

So please be patient.

Take this time to write down questions for our guest. Dr Craig a Carter and also write down the information

provided by our advertisers.

Don't go away.

We're gonna be right back.

God willing after these messages with more of dr Craig a Carter and interpreting the scripture

with the great tradition.

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Before we return to dr. Craig a Carter of Tyndale University College on

our theme interpreting scripture with the great tradition.

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That's also the email address Chris Arnzen at gmail .com where you can send in a question for dr Craig a Carter

professor of theology at Tyndale University College in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

We are addressing if you've just tuned us in the theme interpreting scripture with the great tradition which is

also the title of a recent book that he has written published by Baker academic and.

So we look forward to receiving more questions from you the Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

We have a listener Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania who says

when you mentioned before the multicultural makeup of Tyndale youth for University College.

I couldn't help but wonder how someone who is very biblically sound is surviving there

here in the United States.

We are seeing nearly every month at least stories on the news about

even tenured professors losing their jobs because they are far too conservative for

The mindset of the faculty and the student body and are being fired left and right.

How are you surviving there?

So

the

multicultural makeup that you refer to earlier.

Is this involving the student body that are being attracted to the evangelical school in spite of whatever

religion they may adhere to?

Or are you more?

Using that term descriptively to mean international and multiracial and that kind of a thing.

Great.

Well, thank you.

Harrison and Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania.

You have also won a free copy of the book.

We are addressing today interpreting scripture with the great tradition.

You can also pick that up since you are so close to Carlisle, Pennsylvania

where CV BBS dot -com is located on North Hanover Street in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

You're only about 10 or 15 minutes away.

So if you go by there next week, they should have the books from Baker academic by then.

But if you need it mail to you just give us your full mailing address and we'll have that shipped out to you by CV BBS comm as

soon as they arrive in the mail.

The the situation involving the the hermeneutics of scripture not only

divides conservative From liberal but there's even as you know

a great divide which within conservative Evangelical Christianity

conservative Protestant Christianity and.

Do you think that some of your? approaches to hermeneutics and

exegesis Would solve even the great divides between the Calvinist and

Arminians and the cessationist and the charismatics and others.

I don't I don't pretend that it would do that.

I think that the I do think so that what I'm aiming for is a more

theological way of reading scripture and more theological hermeneutics that I think would be

Useful in maintaining the faith and not drifting off toward liberalism.

I make a statement in the book that the that the reading of a biblical text is not a secular

act and.

That's that's important because you know, there are textbooks that are used widely in evangelical schools that

Treat hermeneutics as a secular thing.

Then they they and they discuss non -christian philosophical positions as the basis for

understanding hermeneutics and and.

So so this is a controversial statement but I say the act of reading a biblical text is not a secular act

is the divine human encounter and Nothing is more fundamental to the Christian life.

Then reading the text of scripture and submitting one's life to the one who speaks his word through the human words of the inspired

Damaging than the attempt to secularize this as to

do so is to act like an atheist.

So we're reading in faith is how we become Christians.

Reading without faith is how we become atheists.

So the stakes are very high and I think that the concern

evangelicalism that I'm most concerned about is the development of a

left -wing kind of Evangelicalism that is drifting toward liberal Protestantism.

The.

Evangelicalism has become very broad today includes everything.

If you want to sell books you have to appeal to the evangelical market.

And unfortunately, the the biggest sellers are typically extremely heretical and dangerous.

Well, maybe even try to portray themselves as evangelicals in

some sense to to get an evangelical audience.

Cause

you'd

be in 19 major denominations

were

forced

out to

the

evangelicals

and less wary

some naivete.

Enough.

We are not being thoughtful enough and

we are not being.

It's

really not a

viable position

that matter in energy and that the nature

of

God's mission

unless

you Just adopt an agnostic view, but you can't be agnostic

about an operative.

This is unavoidable.

We need to do is we need to understand that that

meant to the

evangelical

church.

Well, if

you could

give.

Especially for our listeners who tuned in late.

Various examples as many as you want even if it's just a couple of.

Of specifically how you have seen Christians.

People that you believe are regenerate.

Approaching the scriptures in a secular

way.

I read the Psalms

for what the Psalms could tell us.

I'm using myself as an example Chris plus about when

how they related to God and Therefore I saw the Psalms as a model models of

piety for the people of God.

So the Psalms show us how to be thankful.

They show us how to praise.

They show us how to how to respond to God in faith in times of Crisis

in our lives.

Well, okay, that's fine.

There's nothing wrong with all that.

But if I said you that that would be

very reductionistic.

Because the Psalter means that but it means a lot more and it's the more that's missing

when we when we.

For example when we

read out of that late period in David's life when Absalom his son has

rebelled against him and Attempted to take the kingship.

It's very much person a

thing God in the

historical setting of that song Is a true setting and it's he said

further Spiritual meaning could be read into that should be read into

that song when he comes to that song.

He

sees

he

admits

that it can

see David by

his

own people into

his own in

his own received and not.

This we see

that second the psalm twice

a time and he says we also see here the rejection

is death.

He said

that you

know, if you

shall have

to why

the Psalms have

been

so beloved a

few years ago I read st. Victory's mocks and I

discovered that the monks were to dare saying

the psalms.

They're reading and chanting and memorizing the psalms more than any other part of scripture.

And I found that odd is an evangelical Protestant.

I thought why not Romans?

You know, why not the Gospels why the Psalms and because the Psalter was a Hymn book of

ancient Israelite piety that provides models of prayer for us today, but that's all it was to me.

It wasn't about this.

It wasn't about Jesus and it wasn't about the church so much more to these monks then and to

a Benedict and Benedict.

Of course is standing in a tradition that is universal among the fathers he he's

been reading Augusta and he's been reading

and.

We have a question that I will read to you and then we will go to the break and you can answer it when we return.

But we have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania who says can you please differentiate?

What you are saying?

From the Gnostic and mystic practice of

Vain repetition and opening the mind during meditation that I believe is very

dangerous and Very heretical.

I hope that you are not endorsing that kind of thing.

Can you please tell us if there is a difference and you could you could?

Respond to that when we return from our final break.

If anybody else would like to join us With a question of your own do it now or forever.

Hold your peace because you're rapidly running out of time.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name.

City and state and country of residence.

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If your question involves a personal and private matter, don't go away.

We'll be right back with dr. Craig a Carter.

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That's the private story

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We are now back with the final 20 minutes or so 25 minutes or so with our guest

dr. Craig a Carter.

We are Discussing his book today on Interpreting scripture with the great tradition.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own do so now.

Because we're rapidly running out of time.

Chris Arntzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arntzen at gmail .com.

Before the break Dr. Carter we had a listener Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania who is

very nervous.

He's wondering if you are promoting a Kind of meditation and contemplative

meditation that would involve emptying the mind and doing things like the Gnostics

Do vein repetition and that kind of a thing?

Well, that's a that's an interesting question and and of course the answer is no, but the

but the premise of the question seems to be that.

That ordinary interpretation doesn't require contemplation.

And that's a that's a premise that I want to to challenge.

I think that That would that good and I do

believe that it's important that in in meditating on scripture that we open our minds.

Now the question is to whom are we opening our minds?

I have a man.

I know a man whose wife got involved in.

In.

Some teaching from you know it didn't seem so at the

pit up being somebody who I think was teaching the kind of thing the listeners have

kind of a Gnostic New Age teaching on angels and she became convinced that she was

communicating with angels and that she had a spirit guide who was speaking to her and telling

her things and One of the things that the spirit told her was that she

was not to have normal marital relations with her husband.

Now I would submit to you that that woman was in touch was

a demon who was Win her confidence and draw her

down a path to destruction.

And I think that that just highlights the danger of reading and interpreting.

This is not child's play.

This is this is serious when we read the scripture.

We are opening ourselves and I think a lot of people are not aware of this.

They don't they think it's just a secular thing.

They think it's easy to do and and they think that they are in control they you know,

the the premise seems to be I as the autonomous individual and Intellectually investigating a

problem.

The problem is in control of this

thing before me and I'm going to Analyze it and I'm going

to study it and I'm going to interpret it and it's just me that's going this that's acting here.

There's no one else involved.

I Don't think that's ever the case.

I Think that that people deceive themselves into thinking that that's the case in secular hermeneutics.

But I think what is really the case is that when we are dealing with? spiritual truth about

the ultimate nature of reality and the existence of God and good and evil and and What

we are mentioned and

spiritual entities are the kind

of content.

Advocating is a form of it is not to empty the mind but to fill the mind

and fixate the mind.

Contemplate worry any

any spiritual influence that comes along.

We are attempting to be in contact with God.

We are praying.

And that's what is an act of prayer and that's something that is a theme all through the

Church Fathers.

You

see

the

idea

that

there's

that's a

myth.

We are

to be

well.

Thank you Arnie.

Please give us your full mailing address because you have also won a free copy of the book interpreting scripture with a great

tradition by our Dr. Craig a Carter compliments of Baker academic and also

Compliments of our friends at CV BBS.

Calm.

We'll be shipping that out to you.

We have a first -time questioner Tom and Vancouver, Washington.

And he says in all that you are discussing and that Proverbs chapter 1 verse 9

identifies Nothing being new under the Sun.

How is what you are bringing forth?

So different than what Kuiper spoke to in the late 1800s

early 1900s, I.

Guess he is.

Surmising that what I'm saying is similar to what Kuiper said.

That's the point.

I in fact Tom if you want to give a clarifying email Tom in Vancouver,

Washington all's I know is that he wrote in all that you are discussing and that Proverbs 1

to 9 Identifies nothing being new under the Sun.

How is what you are bringing forth so different than what Kuiper Abraham Kuiper, of course spoke to in the

late 1800s early 1900s.

That's all he wrote.

So I.

First of all, I don't claim that anything is new.

By the way, if you remember Tom Oden, we mentioned him earlier yes, Tom Oden had a city

had a dream and he was he was in the New Haven graveyard and And found his

tombstone and on the tombstone it was written your life Thomas Oden.

He had no.

He had.

He taught no new doctrine or something like that and and he found himself strangely comforted and I

would just say amen to that.

I I have no intention or desire to teach anything new.

Everything that I'm saying about interpreting scripture goes back to Irenaeus and Irenaeus new

student of the of the Apostle John.

There's nothing new here.

I am arguing in the book for Interpreting the old

view, but if you look

at how Hebrews 2 and Hebrews 10 There's two examples of

how Hebrews interprets the Psalms and Augustine does exactly the same thing.

And I think we should and so new now, I'm not looking for new at all.

Well, thank you Tom in Vancouver, Washington.

Not only have you won a free copy of dr. Carter's book The

Interpreting scripture with the great tradition, but since you were a first -time questioner You've also won a free

New American Standard Bible.

Please give us your full mailing address in Vancouver Washington so that CV bbs .com can ship that out to you.

We have somebody closer to your neck of the woods.

Dr. Carter.

We have sickly in Panoka, Alberta, Canada and

He says dr. Carter is your book meant to be readable for simple layman

and better under to better Understand and read the Bible or is it so deep in

theology that my brain will melt.

Okay.

Shows you how much I know about geography.

Well.

Thank you sickly you have won our final copy of the book that we are addressing

today Interpreting scripture with the great tradition.

We thank you for providing us with a.

I know that you're American you're North American, but thank you for providing us with an address in the United

States Where we can have CV bbs .com ship that to your friend there in

the United States who will ship that out to you.

So, thank you so much for doing that making it much more affordable for CV bbs .com to get that book to you and

if it's too deep for you, give it to your pastor or give it to Someone else that you think will

appreciate it and benefit by it.

Let's see here.

We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania

who asks Could you name two or three prominent

evangelical conservative scholars today that you would not mind identifying as

those with whom you would disagree on hermeneutics and How to approach

exegesis.

Might disagree.

Well, it'd be more fun to name the ones I agree with.

All right, we'll do whatever you're comfortable.

To me I guess my

shelf of books on hermeneutics.

Who would I who would I point out?

Well Stanley Porter is a very well -known academic

and he he has some.

He has a lack of patience with Premodern exegesis very often I know he teaches

a course and starts on history hermeneutics and starts and I find that problematic.

Do Val and Hayes have written a book called grasping God's Word and That's a

very popular textbook published by Zonderban and it's used in a lot of Bible.

I've actually used in teaching in my church and and It's at a very basic

introductory level and there's many good things about that book for one thing.

They they integrate the inductive Bible study method into their into their book and I'm big on the inductive Bible study method.

I teach that in our church and we use it and and it's been very very helpful but what I

might complaint about to Val and Hayes is that they the the pre -modern

tradition inept and Not to be taken seriously

and they talk about allegory and spiritual meaning before

Unbridled subjectivism and reading things that is

changing a pre

-modern exegesis 20 years ago.

It was.

It was more common 10 years ago.

It's getting less and less common.

People are becoming more and more aware of what the pre -modern exegesis has to offer

problematic.

I think also the idea that

and that the fathers all used

allegory and therefore we have to

deceive

that the

Nicene that the Nicene is about

the doctrine of the Trinity if it just puts it into language and formulas that

Sariah and Gregory and Asiensis and all the how did they

the Bible is teaching correctly if they were all using a method of X

and If and if this this method of exegesis that was used by the Nicene

fathers is so subjective and the Bible demeaning.

Why has it prunified?

And I'm talking about the logical orthodoxy that he that has emerged out of the first five

centuries and has remained the bedrock teaching of the church.

Undergirding all the creeds and confessions through the Reformation to the pot to the modern day.

How did such an objective body

of emerge?

Oh anybody can answer.

I

think David Steinmetz got it, right in

his famous that

Interpretation of the Nicene Fathers the the idea of spiritual interpretation or call it allegorical.

Terminology is the idea that there are layers of interpretation scripture the

idea that of that divine authorial intent Has to be taken into account alongside human authorial

the idea that the scripture means what God says through it.

But that's the meaning he says that is the that is the middle road between the single

meaning theory.

In human single meaning theory on the one side and the modern on

the other.

Mission is the via media the middle way the the way of

common.

It's not.

So yes, I would believe that is that a passage of scripture may have I kind of gave example earlier of Psalm 3.

It may have more than one meaning but it doesn't have an unlimited number of meanings and it doesn't have

contradictory meanings.

It can only mean any Extended literal that is

that's considered

is the understanding particular

having more than one layer of meaning.

But not as contradicting itself and is in the end finding its unity in in Jesus Christ.

And we have once again Denny from Let's see Farmington, Minnesota.

He just wants to say thank you very much for reading my question to dr. Carter.

I found his answer to be helpful and Thanks for his book as well.

You said during the show that JV Fesco will be on in a couple of weeks, right?

Well as I could tell you is that dr Fesco has said that he would love to come back on the program for another interview and

we are discussing July.

We don't have an exact date yet.

So just keep your eyes and ears open.

For when we have written that in stone on the calendar, of course God can always change

anything that we write in stone.

But as soon as we get that.

Yes, good.

And just say that JV Fesco's books I think our models

of think that what he's doing is the kind of thing that I want to see

more of and I I Just want to affirm that.

Great.

Well, I want to make sure that you have about three minutes of uninterrupted time to

summarize What you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners before we go off the air today,

okay.

Well What I what I really want to get across to people is that the by a unique

book written by 40 authors over a period of 1 ,500 years in

three languages.

Divided into an Old Testament and a New Testament.

It is nevertheless one book read by one author.

The product of one divine mind and this book is a unity centered on Jesus Christ

Speaks of Christ and points forward to him and Christ speaks through his prophets of the Old Testament

the New Testament reveals Christ and and states his His coming and then his Apostles

under the guidance of his spirit.

Explained the meaning of that coming in the incarnation.

It is an ascension and future second coming.

The Bible is our

understanding of what is true.

And and and our understanding of true What is true, I mean everything

and all things in relation to God.

That's what theology is and the Bible therefore

in life.

And what we need is a hermeneutic on this theological

basis believing in the unity sufficient of Scripture and and

seeing Scripture as God uses to

to teach us and to sanctify

as God's Word.

But I want to see it and I I believe that

the church

said I don't want to change a thing about.

She was wonderful.

She makes sense

of the

Bible and how

the Bible and I I

hope

that people will find it helpful

such an

affirmation in his lifetime.

Amen.

Well, we are out of time and I want to make sure our listeners know that if you want to

find out more about Baker publishing and Baker academic you can go to Baker publishing

group Calm Baker publishing group calm the publishers of interpreting scripture with the

great tradition.

Of course, you can always purchase 99 of the books at least that we address on iron

sharpens iron radio from CV bbs .com our sponsors CV bbs .com

and If you want to find out more information about dr. Craig a Carter you can go to

Tyndale dot CA Tyndale dot CA and if do you have any other

contact information that you care to share?

Well, my email is there on the website does just first initial last name at Tyndale dot CA

See Carter at Tyndale dot CA and I'm always glad to hear from from readers.

Great and make sure you make a note on your calendars folks that tomorrow we have Steve

Martin who is the Dean of students at the IR BS theological seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

Joining us once again on iron sharpens iron radio.

I want to thank you Dr. Carter for being our guest again I want to thank everybody who listened especially those who took the time to write

in questions and I want you all to always remember For the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.