ECM of Mark, Mormons Hide in Basements, Gregory on the Spirit

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00:37

Hi The postman just just left a couple minutes ago and He said he had some books from Germany, which he did

00:52

And I've been waiting for this for two years. So here is Here's gospel mark

01:02

In the ECM Now I already started looking at the online

01:11

Databases, so in other words cbgm is available for mark finally January of 2019 back for the world went crazy.

01:22

I visited In Munster where these are produced and was told this was done in January of 2019 but Didn't come out didn't come out and then 2020 nothing came out and I think they've been delayed the next that's

01:41

Supposed to come out. It's not being done in Munster's being done in Birmingham. I think Birmingham think so It's gospel

01:51

John and So people always say you never admit when you're wrong my

02:00

Prediction was that once you had a gospel Get done and By the way, this is a dividing line.

02:08

Hi, I'm James white. Um But I figure most of you if you're new you're gonna be wondering what the world

02:13

I'm talking about But if you're not then you you're like, okay. Yeah, you've talked about this a lot in the past Let me just give you a quick rundown

02:23

Edicio critica mayor you see it right there I don't know how many volumes could be nobody knows how many volumes could be when it's done.

02:31

I should have grabbed axe and the Catholic epistles Those the other volumes in the other room

02:38

This all has been done so far. It's supposed to be done by 2030 We'll see

02:43

I was told they have the funding through 2030 but Obviously you're gonna have the

02:53

Pauline corpus you're gonna have revelation all by itself You've got John Matthew and Luke Yet to go so it could get done.

03:01

I hope it gets done It will be The most

03:09

Extensive expansive edition of the Greek New Testament and what they're doing is

03:15

The Greek New Testament's you are accustomed to seeing that sort of look like this or the

03:20

UBS. These are How do I put it based on this?

03:28

so the Nessie Allen 28th edition reflected the

03:34

General pistols in in reflecting this So the 29th edition,

03:42

I'm not sure exactly what that will involve but axe has come out now marks come out maybe if John comes out, maybe it would reflect those and you'd have the textual changes that have been made and again remember, please in light of all the

03:59

King James only silliness out there When when you when you talk about a textual change

04:08

No one can make readings disappear from the New Testament Okay, so I was just looking for example, and it's nice that they did this right up front is a listing after you get past all the introductory material in German and things like that It's in English and German.

04:36

I used to have Latin I think but anyway Here is on page 20 Textual change is over against the

04:46

Nessie Allen 28th edition right here and There are one two, three, four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen sixteen

05:01

Seventeen eighteen nineteen twenty twenty one twenty two twenty three twenty four twenty five twenty six twenty seven

05:07

Twenty -nine thirty thirty one thirty two thirty three out of the entire

05:13

So that's what? two per chapter maybe That does not mean

05:22

That when the Ness Allen 29th edition comes out That the old readings will disappeared

05:29

You won't be able to see him anymore in reality In the ECM you'll have more information

05:38

About what manuscripts contain what readings than you've ever had before Fuller collations fuller amounts of information available to you now

05:47

For a lot of people that's scary It's having all that information is

05:55

Frightening to people whose text is derived not from God preserving manuscripts over time, but from tradition

06:05

So if you're King James only if you're TR only this is bad news or minimally irrelevant

06:15

So here is here is provision

06:20

I Think very gracious provision. I Mean Islam has nothing even close to this

06:28

Islam doesn't have anything close to this let alone this Here is provision of Tremendous amount of information documentation concerning the readings of the

06:43

New Testament and The faithfulness of the scribes in their copying over the centuries

06:53

But for a lot of people it's just bad news It's just bad news It should just be bad news for atheists and people who want to try to say we don't have any idea what the original testament said and this represents the application of CBGM coherence based genealogical methodology

07:13

Which is Allowing Computers feeding into a computer the

07:25

Collation of Many manuscripts best manuscripts that we have and I don't mean that in the sense of just a few huge numbers of manuscripts and then allowing the computer to recognize

07:41

Relationships and patterns between Manuscripts that a human mind would not be able to see we can only keep

07:49

You know, I watched Fahrenheit 451 the 2018 edition on HBO again recently while writing a couple days ago and I do recommend it to you.

08:02

It has Michael B. Jordan in it who seems to be a real big popular guy these days He did a good job

08:10

I thought enacting it but point was it seemed even creepier today than it did when

08:15

I watched it about nine months ago That's how much farther into that world.

08:20

We've gone. Oh I see that you see the did you pull it out so it could be seen this

08:29

That's how it normally looks. Okay. Yeah, we're gonna rich just got me this thing. See I'm being distracted

08:35

Rich just got me this thing here We're not using it right now, but I'm gonna be on the church split.

08:42

It was church split webcast right after this program and I'll be using this and let's just be honest you

08:51

You stole it from from Nathan, yeah, so there you go

08:56

Nathan rich rich saw it said it sound real good and boom now

09:04

I have to not I Have to take it On my road trips.

09:10

That's that's the whole point I'm not sure if I'll Be using it in here

09:17

There's a see I'm looking at a camera right now right above it Literally sitting on its lens is another camera which

09:25

I use for doing webcasts like the interview this afternoon and So that plus this now that has pretty good sound on it.

09:34

So no one's ever complained but now I'll use this today test it out and then it's gonna get stuck in in the mobile a mobile command center and So I just saw it sitting there going.

09:45

Oh, okay. That's interesting Anyways, what was I talking about? Um point is The I Was gonna admit an error on my part.

09:56

I have said for a couple years That I expected when a mark came out that finally there would be much more mainstream discussion of CBGM which scares me on one hand because Even Christian media is not up To at all accurately representing what

10:21

CBGM is all about there aren't that many people understand what CBGM is all about it just aren't

10:28

It's it's very mysterious to a lot of people and So I was wrong not that I mean these are just now coming out so Something still could come around but here's the point

10:45

There aren't Mark just doesn't have that Doesn't have the real pop

10:54

Textual variants the ones that will catch attention John does so John 118 really important textual variant

11:05

Really interested in seeing how that goes as far as CBGM goes the CBGM databases. Um, I Think I think once John comes out then finally that will probably happen then but looking over these variations these changes

11:25

Well, it's interesting the very last one in mark 1619 Most of most of them for those of you who there's a lot of background of this stuff, okay, and a

11:43

Couple years ago. I spent a lot of time in the program going over a lot of that background It's been a little while mainly because There weren't any real new developments in it for about two years now but One of the interesting aspects of this and this is not what

12:02

I was we talking about today But when the postman brings this to your door Literally ten minutes for the program starts and Seven minutes for the program starts you cut the things off because I didn't know what it was

12:13

I didn't put two and two together and then once I open it up. I'm like, oh Yeah, okay

12:22

One of The the reasons that almost everything we wrote one of the reasons that I will have to rewrite the

12:30

King James only controversy If I live that long Is that For years and years and years and years we utilize language such as the

12:40

Byzantine text type the Alexandrian text type Western test text type Caesarean text type so on so forth in talking about New Testament textual history variations variants and things like that The analysis by CBGM has basically said there's only so far and I don't see that mark is changing any of that Only so far one really identifiable Homogeneous group that's a

13:12

Byzantine manuscripts. There really isn't an Alexandrian text type or a Western text type

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And people had already been going there is no Caesarean text type for a long time. So that wasn't anything new What's interesting is as I look at this list

13:31

The large majority of them are a movement toward the

13:38

Byzantine text type Now there's only it's still Small handful, but there are a couple away from it.

13:47

And the last one is mark 1619 the na28 had a

13:53

Byzantine reading of Lord Jesus and now the ECM simply has

14:00

Lord But the rest are toward a Byzantine reading and the one reading that I had said

14:09

Would really be interesting and I did mention this last week as I looked it up online because the online stuff is available

14:15

I suppose I should silence that The online stuff is available is mark 1 1 and those of you who for example

14:24

Sort of algo my debates would know that mark 1 1 came up in my debate with Shabir Ali in 2006 and The question is how does the verse end the beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

14:39

The Son of God is the Son of God there or not. It's in brackets in the na28

14:44

It's no longer in brackets in the ECM. So in 29, that's not 29.

14:49

It won't be in brackets so The CB GM analysis of the coherence of the manuscripts

14:59

Strengthened the editors conclusion That Son of God was original

15:06

Now that's fascinating because there had been all sorts of discussion

15:14

About what that would have looked like in the original language Because it's a string of genitives and they would have been what's called nomen a sacred the the sacred names and so that whole string of Abbreviated words a lot of people had said

15:31

Yeah, you know That that could cause confusion and Could cause a copyist to maybe skip over things and that's basically what

15:42

ECM is saying is that the evidence is that The copyist skipped over it

15:50

But it was original is basically what what's being said, but that's considered a move toward the

15:56

Byzantine Textual tradition, but again, very small number very very small number and until you get some

16:07

And we may not get real. It's really sort of in Paul that I think

16:13

There's gonna be at least for New Testament scholars some real questions about how

16:19

CBGM is gonna fall out on these things and it's Again, it's it's not just because CBGM says it that they come to that conclusion, but there's mark and it's out and I am hoping

16:38

I haven't totally confirmed this yet, but I'm hoping that a grace Bible seminary and then maybe

16:44

Again after g3 on the way home in Tyler, Texas, I may get the opportunity to Do some lecturing on CBGM just introductory level stuff because especially if you are taking seminary level classes and You have an interest in textual criticism and most people in this audience at least can survive a discussion of textual criticism

17:18

Or you wouldn't be watching this program. Anyways Or especially if you've read the King James only controversy you already have an interest in it

17:26

Anybody today You're gonna be left behind as far as not eschatologically.

17:33

You're gonna be left left behind In the New Testament realm if you're not aware of CBGM and what's what's being done and what the goal is and what the process is going to be and how once all of ECM is done.

17:51

That doesn't mean everything stops probably it means that there's a Revision past that and the traditionalists say there is your problem

17:59

You never come to a final text and I say to the traditionalist. There is your problem

18:05

You don't have any respect for the original text you You've given up the work because stuff is being found all the time.

18:15

And that's a wonderful thing. That's a good thing It's a positive thing. It is great We have so much more of the

18:20

New Testament available to us today than we had in the 16th century and I think it's just absolute insanity to Promote the idea that we should somehow

18:32

Limit ourselves as to the availability of information to defend the text of New Testament and So again as one who believes that this has value long down the road and as one who has

18:50

Now at least a consistent eschatology to want to do things long down the road

18:56

I think it's fantastic. It's exciting and What they're doing now, and I'm not sure if they've gone back and done it with the older stuff

19:04

But I know with the Gospel of Mark you can actually now download the databases to your own computer and I've actually reached out to someone.

19:14

I hopefully will get some training Because I'm gonna tell you something Coming into the study of ECM CBGM From years of studying textual criticism.

19:28

It's exciting But when I was studying textual criticism in the 1980s, we didn't have computers, okay, you know, we didn't we didn't have databases and stuff like that to be drawing from and so downloading stuff and literally

19:46

Doing things in various languages to get it to do stuff Wasn't part of my training.

19:53

So there are others who have been trained in those areas that We will avail ourselves of to get to learn some more things

20:01

But all that to say that that is exciting. It's positive it's it's a good thing and I think sometimes we just get so focused on all the bad news

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That we think it's only news if it's bad. It's only news if it makes you angry

20:22

If it is a positive thing a positive thing that will assist and aid in the

20:31

Defense of the gospel in the translation of scriptures that type of thing That's almost like a ho -hum yawner these days and it and it shouldn't be so that's exciting

20:43

I don't keep the ECM in here that I have a text criticism portion of my library that I've been keeping that in And But it is a fascinating excellent thing.

20:57

All right, so with all of that said I'm not sure if any of you saw there was a

21:07

There are some really interesting Unitarians on Twitter Unitarianism used to be sort of a

21:16

Boring Offbeat type thing, but there's a there's a breed of virulent nasty

21:26

Unitarians out there and that are very zealous and They're they're offensive.

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They're blasphemous and this one guy Jumped on to a completely different thread completely different topic.

21:43

I tried to hijack it did successfully hijack it actually Actually, he hijacked a prayer

21:51

That's right. It was the prayer that I posted for safety for God's people in in the in the face of the hurricane

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But threw out some stuff about the schizo God and things like that and I he quoted from Isaiah 45 5 as I recall where where Yahweh says he is the only

22:14

God and as if that's somehow relevant to Trinitarianism and I just pointed out just the the utter foolishness of this kind of rhetoric, especially because it's

22:25

Isaiah 45 23 is the source of the words that either

22:30

Paul penned or He certainly penned them in writing them in Philippians chapter 2, but most people feel he was writing something down It was already community property of the of the fellowship

22:44

An earlier hymn from the very beginning of the church Where every knee would bow and every tongue confess that's to Yahweh but it is to father and son in essence in Philippians chapter 2 and I was just pointing out just you know,

23:02

Jesus quotes from Isaiah 43 about Yahweh of himself in John 13 19 and just the

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The you know, John 12 41 quoting from Isaiah 6 again identifying

23:14

Jesus as Yahweh just the The foolishness of this this type of stuff and this guy his this guy's response is to say

23:24

I'm sure you're just gonna run away. You won't ever debate me you know and so So I'm like, yeah, you know,

23:32

I I I do have a long history of just running away from debates Never done one.

23:41

I just I'm just so scared of doing that kind of thing. And so I clicked on his profile and He's some type of a vegan blogger in the

23:52

UK As far as I can tell Has zero training in any related field

23:59

Zero publications in any related field zero teaching in any related field has seven

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Seven videos on YouTube and a hundred and fifty two followers. I'm just like Okay, so You're saying that I'm gonna run away from you.

24:21

And of course as soon as I point this out, there's this something about riches and power and so just Just Muto That one but it is amazing to see how social media sure, it can be used for truth, but my goodness the

24:48

Explosion of Heretical nonsense That is given a voice that never could have had before I mean, how many people do you think this guy actually would influence in his normal life if there wasn't that opportunity to do that?

25:02

Very very very few. Nope No one be supporting him to be Publishing stuff or putting a newsletter out or anything even back in the olden days when that's how you did stuff

25:11

So when you see that kind of stuff don't don't get all bent out of shape I see people jump on that stuff and it it's that it is that meme that meme that says

25:19

You know, the guy is sitting there and it's late at night and his wife says gotta come to bed. I can't honey Somebody's wrong on the internet, you know, and it's just sort of like Don't Don't don't sweat it.

25:33

It's uh, it's cool. You're good. All is all as well Don't don't let those things bother you.

25:41

Okay. Let's see what we have here. Oh Accordance is having problems on this this machine but Okay, let's start with this one

25:52

I have been amazed And I'm gonna

25:58

I'm gonna tell you right now what I'm gonna try to do is I'm gonna try to avoid Any Afghanistan stuff today?

26:05

Because I think I'm personally just burned out on it It's just so sad

26:12

If I start talking about the picture of the dogs, I'm just gonna lose it So I'm gonna try to avoid that today.

26:18

You're gonna you can't avoid it yourself, so But there you go.

26:23

I'm just like to go there today But I will talk about the Mormons Mormons little dry today.

26:32

Oh, that tastes good. I Have not figured out what is going on with the

26:39

Mormons Once again, they've canceled

26:48

Their general conference not canceled it but there'll be no in -person general conference

26:53

The last in -person general conference was October of 2019 We were there

26:59

I Think that video of Jeff and I and Luke's discussion with a couple leaving

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Mormonism. Did you ever get a chance sit down watch that?

27:11

Oh goodness, you've got to because That was lame.

27:20

Um, I Just asked if he'd seen it and he's asked to come up with all these excuses About how long ago it was and how old we're getting and stuff like that That that that was a long time ago and What's amazing is

27:38

You know, we went out to apology I went out to The Mesa Temple, I think it was back in June Because we had seen an announcement that these missionaries were gonna do a musical thing on The front lawn of the and I did not know that there was a ward

27:56

Chapel Directly South. I mean literally the the road on the on the southern boundary of the temple

28:04

There is a ward Chapel on the other side. So, I mean, that's how close it so you didn't hear about this So we had heard that these missionaries were gonna do a musical thing and so Paula Gia shows up in force my my daughter and son -in -law and grandkids are all there and I Don't know.

28:30

There's probably 50 of us I'd say that showed up and We first showed up.

28:37

There was nobody there. I mean, we're like is this where it's supposed to You know, we're looking finally about half an hour for us supposed to start these missionaries start bringing chairs out the front lawn of the ward and We're already

28:51

I Mean, we know where to stand. We figure traffic's coming this way that You've got this stuff figured out and they're looking at us like Why do these people have tracks in their hands what's going on, you know, and honestly

29:10

By the time it started we outnumbered the Mormons There were more people from apology a church there to witness the

29:18

Mormons than Mormons that showed up now in The process by the way,

29:24

I didn't tell you this. Oh goodness my youngest granddaughter

29:30

Janie Five years old. All right, so she's out there with tracks and So along comes you know a

29:43

Mormon family and She just steps out in front of him and says are you a

29:49

Mormon? Yeah, this is for you. What are you supposed to do? You got to take it you're stuck there is no way around this

29:57

So she got bolder as the evening went on and she pops out in front of this Mormon guy.

30:03

Are you a Mormon? Yes, I am You have the wrong God ding ding

30:12

And it goes on She's not wrong and So so anyway, that's sort of a side issue to the fact that I'm standing there looking at the temple now the

30:29

Mesa temple is closed for renovation a lot of temples are closed for renovation right now, but the point is it's it's dead as a tomb and They've been they've been canceling the the pageants right and left and They just they have hid in fear of Covid and I'm thinking back to the

30:56

Mormons of the 70s and 80s, you know, I I ran into my first Mormon in high school, so it would have been 77 78 somewhere on there and If you if you know

31:13

Mormonism, you you know something about what's called the Mormon temple garments and There used to be used to be used to be real strong Beliefs associated with those garments

31:29

About how protective they would be if you're in accidents from disease stuff like that Those Mormons are long gone

31:40

Because the Mormon Church has simply Curled up in a shell in regards to the pandemic.

31:50

They really have it's just like so there is a Article that AP news now, this is interesting.

32:02

I want you to listen to the language here All right, listen to the language because this is AP. So AP is is

32:11

AP and they have a story to tell basically but they got picture of the prophet there and I I'm noticing that this is more and more exactly it's it's a template.

32:27

It's just how they do stuff media Salt Lake City AP after more than a year of attending church virtually

32:34

Monique Allen has struggled to explain to her asthmatic daughter Why people from their congregation the

32:40

Church Jesus Christ Light of Saints don't wear masks Allen said she's taught her daughter that wearing a mask is

32:47

Christlike But now she worries her child feels like an outcast. So the first the first paragraph is to set the mind frame the frame of thought and It's pro mask

33:02

It's against anyone who would not wear Matt people who don't wear masks are mean they're dangerous

33:09

And you're making poor little girls feel like outcasts, I mean this is this is Journalism quote -unquote journal actually it's propaganda.

33:17

But there you go, of course. I know many an asthmatic would say don't put a mask on me because That's Church leaders recently issued their strongest statement yet urging people to limit the spread by getting kovat 19 vaccines and wearing masks

33:36

But Allen said she fears is still not enough to convince the many families in your congregation Refused to wear masks and have succumbed and have succumbed

33:44

That's the term succumbed to anti -vaccine misinformation

33:50

This is propaganda AP propaganda in the middle of a story on Mormonism members of the faith widely known as the

34:00

Mormon Church remain deeply divided on vaccines and mask wearing despite consistent guidance from church leaders as the highly contagious

34:06

Delta virus of the coronavirus Spreads about 65 % of Latter -day Saints who respond to a recent survey said they were vaccine acceptors.

34:15

There's a new term acceptors Meaning they've gotten at least one dose or plan to soon

34:20

Another 15 % identified as hesitant and 19 % said they would not get the vaccine according to the survey this summer from the

34:27

Public Religion Research Institute a polling organization based in Washington and Interfaith Youth Corps The survey found 79 % of white

34:36

Catholics and 56 % of white evangelical Protestants identified as vaccine acceptors

34:43

I'm wonder when that's gonna become a t -shirt or something in the future Alan a church member living in Wisconsin is among a contingent who fear fellow members who refuse to get vaccinated are allowing their political

34:55

Views to supersede their loyalty to a faith that largely prioritizes unity and obedience

35:02

The message she's shared with her eight -year -old daughter. Is that of course Christ would wear a mask. Of course

35:08

He would get vaccinated because he's a loving person She said and that's the only way you can take care of people these days is doing these simple things now

35:17

Hmm First Just the the change in Mormonism over the years and The Clear evident fear

35:33

That the leadership of the church now the leadership of the church is a bunch of old men so Okay Mormonism has

35:47

Inadvertently because it Wasn't established by God. It sort of developed the way it developed.

35:55

There were some weird stuff that happened in its early development and because of Joseph Smith's death and the movement of the church

36:01

West the the way that the leadership is chosen over time has resulted in Mormonism being stuck with a bunch of really really really old men at the top and So I Cannot imagine that that's what

36:24

Joseph Smith intended But he wasn't thinking that far down the road. He was making it all up as he went along That's clear anyway, so when we look at Mormonism and its response it has

36:44

Fundamentally Sought to respond out of fear and out of a desire to be seen as loving as defined by the culture as Defined by the narrative not as defined by Scripture not as defined by God's law by any stretch of the imagination and They are afraid they are living in fear and With the the degradation of the faith what

37:13

I mean by that is I Started we started witnessing to Mormons in Mesa, Arizona in 1983

37:27

Then or in an organized fashion in 1984 and I can tell you that your average

37:40

Mormon today Knows a quarter of What your average

37:47

Mormon knew in the middle 1980s and has

37:55

Significantly less Significantly less Commitment Conviction confidence in the teachings of the of the

38:11

Mormon Church Than they had back then there has just been a massive change a massive change and So Something's gonna happen eventually and I've said many times right now.

38:30

I think the situation is rife For a charismatic young prophet style leader

38:40

To walk off with a third of the membership of the Mormon Church Because Mormonism is hemorrhaging members and There are a lot of older members that remember what it was once like and it ain't that way no more you've got a lot of new members that have been raised in a church, but without any type of foundation of conviction

39:08

That thing come flying apart and I think the only thing holding together right now is they've got billions in reserve

39:16

So they've got the money to make it look good They've got the money to make it look good but it's just It's frayed at the edges.

39:25

It's old. It's weak And I don't know what the results gonna be Now secondly

39:34

Secondly, I am so sick and tired of spam text messages.

39:42

There is a special place in Hades for spam text messengers Secondly Secondly, these are not the only people that are telling their kids this stuff

39:57

Because you know, of course Christ would wear a mask I think that the

40:04

Guy over Rick Warren over at Saddleback would probably say the same thing. I didn't bother listening, but I saw the videos pop floating around Twitter About Showing love and you know the whole the narrative hasn't changed not that they are actually responding in any meaningful fashion to the refutation of this narrative, but this narrative continues on that this is how you show love for others is that even if you

40:40

Are convinced it's worthless They have their fears and so you need to enter into their fears to show love

40:46

So you have to be fearful when other people are fearful that's the Christian message now, it's it's astonishing That that's the kind of thing going on but if you do not have a

41:02

Biblical message If you don't have a biblical foundation

41:09

For your understanding of why you're taking the stands you're taking you're gonna get washed away in this stuff

41:17

And that's why I'm seeing a lot No, Mike. I wasn't talking about you is some

41:23

Guy named Sam wanted to buy my house Yeah, and so I saw that name and that there's and there's a few people

41:32

I know about that name some of whom don't like Me and some of whom do and that's why I even bothered to look at it is like Oh, what was that?

41:39

And it's someone wants to buy my house Anyway That's why

41:44

I'm seeing a lot of people I think struggling through Uncomfortable issues because we are being forced to you are seeing alliances developing

41:58

Where the people don't want the alliances developing? But it's because we're thinking through church -state relations.

42:06

We're thinking through eschatology. We're thinking through God's law and we're coming to conclusions that five years ago would have scared us to death

42:15

But we're all getting pushed in the same direction where we want to or not Didn't see that one coming

42:22

Guess some people did and so we are seeing that the squishy squishy people and there's a direct correlation as to their view on all sorts of Issues where the

42:42

Word of God cuts against the culture the Word of God cuts against the culture in recognizing male and female roles okay, so Over the weekend

42:57

I had a little bit of a Twitter battle with Australian New Testament scholar

43:02

Michael Byrd who has written some Great stuff on Christology really has

43:09

But he decided to jump on a Conservative Christian woman

43:17

Who made a comment about gender roles in a very condescending fashion?

43:24

and This guy's basically in prison in Melbourne It's called his house, but if you live in Melbourne, that's your prison now and And is so deeply influenced by leftist ideology and things like that That of course all he can talk about is if you disagree with him you think

43:47

Trump is God or something absurd along those lines But it is fascinating to see

43:56

Alignments developing That I don't think everyone who's moving that direction even realizes yet what that all means

44:05

And they're a bit afraid of what it might mean and of course we can't

44:13

We cannot begin To create our theology based upon our current experience

44:20

That that's very very dangerous, and I am I have spoken against that for a long time and doing my best not to do it

44:29

But at the same time our modern situation Sheds light on a bunch of areas of our theology and practice and tradition

44:42

That was able to lurk in the darkness for decades We were never

44:49

Challenged in those areas, and we're being challenged now And you you you can't just flop back on a tradition and say well what whatever we did in the past.

45:00

Hey How you did stuff in the 1980s is not gonna be working in 2021 It's just it's not and So that doesn't mean that Trinity's changed or justification by faith has changed, but there's just a bunch of areas that we were able to rather glibly

45:21

Push over there and say oh I Heard that such -and -such seminary did something on that and that's good enough for me, and we can't can't do it anymore we've got to deal with this stuff, so being able to find what loving is

45:38

That's always been important, but now today With the the

45:46

Christian understanding of man Self -sacrifice etc.

45:52

Just flying out the window in this new Subjective You're the center of the universe you're whatever you think you are and of course the associated the greatest

46:05

Sin of all time now is to offend someone That's now all around us, and if if you don't have a quiet grounded confidence

46:19

That You are seeking every day to have

46:25

God's priorities be your priorities God's truth be your priority and Therefore You're being uncompromising

46:37

Cannot be associated with a hard attitude of anger or hatred

46:44

I'm seeing and if this applies to you apply it to you if it doesn't don't give it a second thought but I'm seeing a lot of my fellow believers.

46:55

Just getting really angry just Angry on a level that you know the wrath of man does not fulfill the will of God and and You have to be very very careful

47:11

Because once you know anger is a is the battery acid of emotions and It can it can etch a deep scar and We have to very very very concerned that We have we have just as much emphasis

47:33

Upon Recognizing that we are what we are by grace That everything we've received

47:40

Even if we're right about something the reason you're right about something is God graciously allowed you to be right about it

47:48

That We are recipients of grace in everything and that therefore standing firm is

47:57

An act of love toward others because God's truth is what's best for all people a

48:05

Denial of God's truth is never good for anyone So letting a person Deceive themselves by calling themselves

48:15

Z or Zer is Not loving them it is not loving to do that the world says it's loving there are a bunch of Christians that say it's loving

48:25

But it's not loving because it's self -destructive to them. You can do that without them being filled with hatred for that person and That's the balance that the fact is and I I Violate this for myself all the time

48:47

It's confession time on the dividing line Here's my suggestion and maybe

48:53

I'm just suggesting it from who I am We we struggle with the amount of Lies and absurdities that Flow our way every single day now if that's the first stuff into your mind in the morning

49:19

Your day is going to eventually end with you in great anger and There's there's stuff to be really angry about you know

49:28

I mentioned the dogs being left behind and And my dear wife

49:36

She said you know Don't don't let me get anywhere near President Biden I Throw something at him

49:46

I mean, she's just and if you know my wife now you realize just like wow really

49:51

I mean, she's She's just really really angry about What's happening in the world and what this is gonna mean to our children and our grandchildren, and you know says hey?

50:04

We've lived our lives, but still it's just these people that just so evil

50:09

I know I know and if that's what if that's all we ever think about if that's the first thought in our head in The morning and the last time we go to bed.

50:16

We're gonna be miserable people. We're just gonna be miserable so you've got to You've got to start in the morning with the word

50:26

Sometimes that's hard. I mean I like to I like to do my reading in accordance I've got all that wonderful neat fun stuff there and and And stuff pops up on the screen and there's stuff that was left from last night, and I I Know how it works.

50:44

I know how it works. Oh, yeah Rich said the minute you open your eyes coming at you actually it may be what ends up opening your eyes

50:56

You know your phone going and there's some thing if you haven't even your feet haven't even hit the floor yet and And there it is so You Especially with how fast things are going a lot of us think but I have to keep up every day or I'm gonna miss something

51:13

Well, you know what? Rolls not gonna end if you miss something It's gonna be repeated and repeated and repeated over and over and over again you know, sometimes you might be just good to take a day off and Not expose yourself to any of that stuff and build yourself back up because it we were not designed for this it wears you down and if you're in a constant state of agitation, in fact, someone sent me a study find a study for anything these days, but in regards to the kovat stuff

51:57

I am thankful by the way, just in passing just looking down here the Explosion of new studies that all say the same thing masks are irrelevant worthless.

52:08

And yeah Also in a way I'm a little surprised

52:16

Only because there's just so much money in that field that I would expect that it would just overwhelm any real science in it but On the other hand,

52:26

I'm just thankful that they're there and you know, you can point to them and not that the other side cares That's irrelevant.

52:31

They they don't think that there's not thinking once you're once you're panicked you stop thinking That's what panic is all about panic is a survival thing and If you think you are having to try to survive every single day and there are people who believe that they're literally are people who?

52:47

believe that they are trying to stay alive every day and You if you're not vaccined and you're not wearing a mask or trying to kill them, man

52:57

That creates a really really bad societal situation really does

53:03

It's a crying shame what we're facing but anyway So thankful that this stuff is has come out but if you're in this

53:20

Emotional stew all day long It will have long -term effects on you and we're seeing it in the

53:27

Karen cult we you can just step back and you can just see how people are being fundamentally changed and Their entire worldview

53:37

By the length of this experience and I can't imagine what it's like. I did an interview

53:46

On Friday Friday Friday with Another brother by the name of Nathan who put together the video that I mentioned to y 'all

54:03

Back in February when I discussed my acceptance of an adoption of post -millennialism the video on earth is is in heaven.

54:14

He's one put together and he's from Chile and He got to come to the

54:21

United States. I was like how'd that happen? He said it wasn't easy His Parents are from the

54:29

US and so he speaks perfect English and Spanish and stuff like that but lives down there in Chile So he interviewed me

54:38

For some more stuff he's doing on the same subject Which felt really weird to be talking that much eschatology, but anyway

54:50

What was interesting was well, I'll go ahead and tell the story. I'm sure he doesn't mind He was wearing an In -N -Out t -shirt

54:57

And I was like, I don't know. I've just never gotten the In -N -Out thing. I just You know,

55:03

I've had it But I mean like In -N -Out fries I'm I think they're way below McDonald's Arby's crinkle fries.

55:15

I don't know if you had them but Really good Anyways, and just you know, the burgers, okay

55:23

But you know, we have Whataburger here in the Southwest and There was a

55:29

Whataburger nearby where we did the interview And so I took him to dinner at Whataburger and he admitted the

55:34

Whataburger was really good. So it's like Yay But the funny thing was the manager of the

55:40

Whataburger said that In -N -Out's the best But she's in California, so I What do they know?

55:49

anyway While we're sitting there eating he's telling me about what it's been like in Chile and It's real easy for us to focus on just what's going on in our own country and and we are experiencing a revolution here let's just be honest a

56:03

Revolution has taken place I Believe that our government is now controlled from overseas.

56:12

I Really do we don't you don't know who's in charge Joe Biden is not in charge this government

56:18

Don't don't even please I I I would ha I I can't keep from laughing in your face

56:26

If you think the man who falls asleep during meetings with world leaders and Who stands there reading a teleprompter and goes

56:35

I've been told not to take questions Where am I supposed to go? And did you see that thing where?

56:41

he was on a like a zoom electronic thing and There's this voice that comes in Not one

56:49

Pelosi. It was somebody else. Um, but but it was we don't want him talking It's like yeah, we know we don't want him talking because he can't he's not involved any of this stuff

57:00

He's senile. The man is senile. Everybody knows it. Just be honest about it. So who's running the show?

57:08

Who's making these decisions? Someone who wasn't elected to make them I can guarantee you that much

57:16

And given how everything turned out I personally think these decisions are being made by Individuals not within our borders.

57:25

Let's put it that way Way way way to our West shall we say across an ocean? anyway

57:33

You see this stuff and you You can't help but just be you know, we got a revolution going on here

57:41

United States well, there is literally revolution going on in Chile a literal one as in Unrest broke out and The government basically collapsed and now they're doing a constitutional convention thing and they're rewriting everything and they're going back to communism they're losing their

58:02

Their personal rights. It's happening all over South America and I I had heard about a few things going on in in South America but I Hadn't we're so focused on what's going on around here that we don't know you notice it the global loss of Liberty on just on one simple level think about it

58:31

We have had the freedom to travel the world to speak the truth of the gospel that is ending in many ways

58:44

Think think of what's going on in Australia. Think of what's going on South Africa and Yet there are so many

58:51

Christians are like, well, not a big deal, you know, it's okay, you know, it's alright We got to love our neighbor loving the neighbor means defending their freedom and the ability to get the gospel to them and We're just sitting around going well

59:09

We don't know what to do. It's It's sad to see it's sad to see

59:17

But so pray for the believers in Chile pray for our brother as he puts together

59:24

The material I forgot what it was Yeah, I think

59:30

Sam texted me twice he really wants my house No, he doesn't he could care less about my house

59:38

But anyways What was it Yeah Forgot what the name was, but yeah, he's working on another project and so I'm looking forward to that comes out.

59:54

Obviously, it's not come out as quickly as it could have in the past Because of delays and things like that, but pray for brother

01:00:02

Nathan in his work on that. I think it'll be it'll be very very useful Okay.

01:00:07

All right. Well, there you go. I Didn't you know what? I? Do another ten or so You're good on that.

01:00:17

I don't have the other program to do for a little while and I just want to I Want to finish off with something positive

01:00:30

Close this dumb AP story get out of the way. I Want to just toward the end the program here go back to Gregory Gregory of Neo Caesarea Or better known to history

01:00:49

Greg Gregory Thaumaturgus And his confession in case you're forgotten we started looking at this because of Dale Tuggy's absurd statements about when

01:01:04

Trinitarian Belief quote -unquote developed and things like that. And so we were looking at Ignatius and just all the obvious Church history material that contradicts that kind of narrative and you'll remember that we looked at a

01:01:21

Statement coming from about 265 from Gregory That spoke of one

01:01:29

God father of living Lagos who is subsistent wisdom and power and his eternal impression perfect begetter of a perfect one

01:01:35

Father and only begotten son one Lord only from only God from God impression image of the divinity

01:01:41

Effective Lagos wisdom embracing the structure of the universe power that makes the whole creation true son of a true father

01:01:47

Invisible from an invisible one incorruptible from an incorruptible one immortal from an immortal one eternal from an eternal one.

01:01:54

So we had Looked at that description of father and son we had emphasized the connections that exist between this and the eventual

01:02:03

Nicene formulation and what would be promulgated there and so we had stopped before we got to the section on the spirit and And The Common the common idea is

01:02:26

That the spirit just sort of gets added on As an afterthought at a much later period in time, and I think

01:02:37

I think a lot of evangelicals can sort of Identify with that because when it comes to a doctrine of The Holy Spirit Let's be honest for the majority of evangelical

01:02:54

Christians You'd feel most comfortable

01:03:03

Enunciating explaining your doctrine of Jesus Then secondly your doctrine of the father but the vast majority of us would really really be hesitant to write down or enunciate a

01:03:23

Specific doctrine of the spirit, especially if you were concerned that you'd be asked Questions About the spirits role the spirits personality

01:03:38

The Relationship of the spirit to the father and the son. What is procession

01:03:44

What is spiration? Certain Terms that have developed in the history of discussion the

01:03:54

Doctrine of the Trinity and because of that People have a very vague

01:04:04

Impression of what the spirit is and and Hence would struggle if the

01:04:10

Jehovah's Witnesses came by the house to deal with their denial of the

01:04:16

Personality of the spirit Jehovah's Witnesses believe the spirit is God is Jehovah's impersonal active force like running water or electricity

01:04:25

It has power But it has no personality. It is just simply

01:04:31

God acting and Most Unitarians would view it that way or that is take it as a allegory for God acting in a particular way or whatever um

01:04:50

So and Certainly the Apostles Creed the certain forms of Nicene earlier forms of Nicene Creed don't really have a whole lot

01:04:59

But it's fascinating than a 265 80 to 65 which is 60 years prior to Nicaea Gregory has this one

01:05:11

Holy Spirit. So you have One God one Lord one

01:05:16

Holy Spirit, that's that's New Testament language that's 1st

01:05:23

Corinthians chapter 8, that's That's highly developed long before Nicaea one

01:05:30

Holy Spirit having substantial existence from God Eck the you tame who parks in econ

01:05:40

So that's a again That is a an assertion that is going to be

01:05:48

Not fleshed out but Discussed much more a

01:05:55

Hundred and 100 to 120 years in the future The Cappadocians are going to be developing stuff like that One Holy Spirit having substantial existence from God manifested through the

01:06:07

Sun Perfect image of the perfect Sun living cause of living things sanctity and provider of sanctification

01:06:14

By whom God the Father is manifested who is overall and in all and God the

01:06:19

Son who is through all now you could say and and and then the last phrase trios

01:06:30

Talia perfect Trinity in Glory and eternity and kingdom not divided and not alienated

01:06:39

All right, so remember the whole reason we point this out was Dale Tuggy was saying yeah council and I see a 325

01:06:45

There's where you really start getting your first Trinitarian stuff. And this is as Trinitarian as it gets now He has his excuses.

01:06:50

He wants to use certain language fine, whatever Unitarians are Unitarians. I don't They're not going anywhere

01:06:58

But You could say well, you know, certainly there's more that could be said.

01:07:04

Well sure but for a confession of faith in 265 prior to the rise of Arius now remember

01:07:17

In church history when you have a

01:07:24

What we would call heresy arise Very often this leads to the greatest clarification of the issues that were brought up before so Arius comes along and Because Arius is defending himself and defending his assertion.

01:07:46

There was a time when the Sun was not That leads to clearer

01:07:57

Expressions of the truth because now you have something to define the truth against you see and until that comes up, sometimes you just don't have the same level of clarity as You do and then when it's after it's been denied

01:08:15

So this is before Arius in fact in the

01:08:21

East especially what they're what they're fighting at this time is Monarchianism they're they're they're fighting a form of modalism and Yet you have

01:08:35

Still very clear language being used here so One Holy Spirit having substantial existence from God, so not a creature

01:08:47

Manifested through the Sun so existence from God manifestation through the

01:08:53

Sun Perfect image of the perfect Son so There seems to be in Gregory's mind a revelatory

01:09:04

Frame here. Well, the Sun is perfect revealer of the Father and now this Spirit is the perfect revealer of the

01:09:11

Sun Living cause of living things clearly

01:09:17

Genesis 1 spirit involved in creation Pneuma breath of life

01:09:27

Sanctity and provider of sanctification that's straight out of The central aspect of the spirits role in bringing about sanctification to believers life

01:09:37

That's Pauline theology very very clearly expressed By whom

01:09:43

God the Father is manifested so spirits necessary action of opening hearts and minds understanding

01:09:50

Who is overall in all description of God the Father there and God the

01:09:57

Son who is through all that's? Similar language to what you find in Colossians and in first Corinthians and Romans That matter though Paul does interchange a lot of those prepositions between father and son

01:10:10

But it's the spirit who brings this to life amongst believers and so That again is an amazingly full

01:10:25

Pneumatology at this very early period of time prior to Nicaea and at a time when the

01:10:33

East is primarily the ones fighting against Dynamic monarchy and ism and civilian ism and the various Forms of what today would be described as oneness theology

01:10:47

Though that's anachronistic to put it that way Perfect Trinity and glory and eternity and kingdom not divided and not alienated.

01:10:54

That's beautiful and So Here on this program starting because we started looking at this on our the first stop

01:11:06

On my road trip. So I was in Munns Park just south of Lagstaff, Arizona. I can tell you where I was now and That's where we started this so I've sort of picked at it for the past number of weeks but Keep that in mind make a note of this

01:11:29

So when people tell you stuff like Dale Tuggy said or like the Muslims will say

01:11:35

Um It's getting to go back to the realities go back to the

01:11:42

Original sources is the best way to deal with that kind of stuff is to say. Nope.

01:11:48

Don't think so. Look right here and It's right there

01:11:53

In fact, I'm gonna use this I linked to it on I think oh,

01:12:02

I did put it on theology matters The recording of the little talk that I gave up in Las Vegas, which

01:12:10

I'm gonna be doing again in the future because Everybody seemed to enjoy it and I and I enjoyed it where I just went through I Had I had some idea of who

01:12:22

I was gonna talk about I had a few quotes in a in a file but I Said plenty of freedom to just go wherever I wanted to go and talk about individuals in church history

01:12:34

I'm gonna throw Gregory in there and I'm gonna use this just so people can get an idea that Christians have had these incredible beliefs that we have from the start from the

01:12:48

Start that's just the reality. So I hope you're blessed by that and I hope it's useful to you and keep that in mind.

01:12:57

All right, that's the program for today and I Appreciate you taking the time to come along with us.

01:13:06

Hope you were blessed I'm glad I sort of finished off with something positive there started with something positive remember

01:13:16

This is not the pocket edition It's a great new testament you're looking for.