March 22, 2017 Show with Frank Turek PLUS Anthony Uvenio & Nick Mitchell on “Will You Survive the Culture?”

The Church as Iron Sharpening Iron

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now here's our host.

Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arnson your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 22nd day of March 2017.

Will You Survive the Culture?

Will you survive the culture? Well, that's the theme of a conference. We are going to be discussing today. We have three guests to discuss this the first hour we are going to have Frank Turek of Cross-examined on the program to discuss that theme and then later for the second hour We are going to have Anthony Eugenio and Nick Mitchell the founders of New York apologetics discussing that same concept because they are the founders of New York apologetics that are Hosting the will you survive the culture conference on Long Island, New York and you'll hear more about that During our interviews, but Frank Turek.

My first guest is an award-winning author or co-author of four books Stealing from God why atheists need God to make their case. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist correct not politically correct and Legislating morality.

He's a debater of prominent atheists, including Christopher Hitchens and David Silverman. He's host of the weekly TV show I don't have enough faith to be an atheist and the weekly radio program cross-examined with Frank Turek.

He's a featured guest in the media as a leading apologetic expert on And he's a guest on hundreds of radio programs and many top TV programs including the O 'Reilly factor Hannity and Combs faith under fire and politically incorrect and he's also a columnist for Town Hall And the president of cross-examined organ.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron Frank Turek. And in studio with me is my co-host the reverend buzz Taylor, why don't you greet the Frank Turek? Yes, so good to meet you.

Hey, how you doing? Great. Thanks.

Christianity, the Culture War, and the Need for Apologetics

Well, first of all, this is a Obviously an intention getter this theme here. Will you survive the culture? What exactly is it that we who are Christians are? Must be prepared to survive. What is going on in the culture specifically that you think that we need to be further equipped to survive.

Well, I think one thing that we need to survive Especially for our young people is that many of them leave the home. About three out of four leave the home. And they turn away from the church. I'm talking about young people who are brought up in the church their entire lives I don't care what denomination.

They just walk away from the church. Three out of four seventy five percent and. One of the major reasons for that Chris is intellectually. They don't know why Christianity is true and that's because we've never really told them why it's true.

We simply say go out there and believe. And We never give them any evidence. In fact I always ask audiences what's the easiest way to get picked off in a war and. The answer is is to not know you're in one.

And I think it's pretty obvious that the world out there isn't neutral that the world in many cases decidedly anti-christian. And if you're not prepared intellectually to deal with their counter arguments and Even the ridicule that often will come for being a Christian then chances are you might not survive College.

Or you might not survive just being out in the world.

Now that is the main theme. Will you survive the culture of the conference? What is what are some of these subcategories of that umbrella theme that you'll be addressing?

Well, I'm going to be talking about issues related to the evidence for Christianity from our book. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. So that covers does truth exist as God exists our miracles possible.

Did the resurrection really occur is is is the New Testament really reliable? And if so, then is the whole Bible reliable. And we're going to have other speakers as well. It's not just me Jay Warner Wallace.

It'll be a cold-case homicide detective. It'll be a Greg Koukl who is the president of stand to reason who has written several great books including a new one called But you're on my shelf. It has to do the story of reality.

I don't even have it on my shelf. I have it my other office. It's called the story of reality and it really is about the big picture as to what? Reality is all about why we're here and what the purpose of life is and also Mary Jo Sharp will be there Who is a pop and then of course, you've got Nick and Antony who?

From my New York apologetics, so it's gonna be a great program. I think yeah, I'm looking forward to it and I Already have Greg Koukl. He is already lined up for our April 7th iron sharpens iron radio.

All right, so we're looking forward to have Greg on April 7th. So everybody listening can mark their calendars and I would love to get Mary Jo Sharp and Jay Warner Wallace on the show, too. I've never interviewed either one of them.

I had the privilege of interviewing Greg years ago, but I'd love to have all of you guys on and hopefully that will happen. The the the thing that the liberals Laugh at when we make claims like we are making right now that We there is a culture war that Christians must survive that We are considered the enemy by the majority of the population including especially the government and all these things.

They laugh at this they still will view Christians as the majority and as the oppressor and as the ones who are trying to infiltrate every sphere of life Against the will of the population by by imposing our morality on them all.

But how do you react to this this concept that the the liberal left? Doesn't seem to admit that we are the ones losing our freedoms and rights as Christians one after another.

Well, one thing I might say is that the only worldview that's going to respect everyone's rights Is the Christian did not when it gets into power at least that's not what history shows. Normally Sharia laws put into place.

The Hindu worldview isn't aren't isn't going to respect individual rights because they have a caste system. They have a hierarchy. The atheistic worldview doesn't generally respect Individual rights. Normally the person in power decides what rights there are and quite frequently only the Christian worldview will recognize that every individual human being has certain rights.

The right to life liberty. The pursuit of happiness and happiness meant virtue in those days. The pursuit to become a community and. That's what the Christian worldview will respect and and give people the freedom of religion the freedom of speech.

You notice Chris and buzz that it seems like the folks on the left Who say they're fighting for tolerance are often the most intolerant people out there. They don't even want to have a debate. They want to cancel the debate.

They just want to shut people down. They want to they didn't want people to speak at universities. They want to they want to Riot and and not this obviously isn't true of all everyone on the left. I'm not trying to paint too broad a brush, but when's the last time you heard a Conservative group trying to shout down somebody and Stop somebody from speaking at a university.

All I hear is crickets, right? It's the left that wants to shut down the debate. They don't want to have a debate. They want to rule by power not by reason.

Boycotts, Marriage, and Legislating Morality

Now, how do you respond though?

To.

Conservative evangelicals and perhaps we could even add into that mix Conservative Roman Catholics who are who have been historically at times a part of these boycotts. Where perhaps perhaps right now?

It's not so prevalent, but I can remember especially in the 80s and perhaps the 90s whenever a movie would come out that was offensive to Christianity it was a mocking in some way. Or a slanderous in some way to the historic Christian faith to the Bible or to Jesus Christ himself.

You would have hundreds perhaps even depending upon the circumstances thousands of conservative evangelicals or and or Roman Catholics Marching outside with picket signs and so forth at movie theaters.

Do you think that that's an appropriate approach?

For.

Yeah, I suppose it depends on what the issue is. I mean people have a right to protest and people have a right not to buy don't agree, especially companies that support. I mean the left does that all the time?

You know the little in California some some Democrats in California who are in the legislature who are warning? Companies who are bidding that's are warning those companies that we may divest our investments from the state of, California.

If you do that. And not only that as you know, there are several people who have been run out of business By the left because they refuse to be to engage themselves in a same-sex ceremony. They'll serve people who identify as LGBT they just won't be a part of a same-sex ceremony.

And the folks on the left who Say no, you must be a part of my same-sex ceremony. They will shut those places down you look at the the clients Aaron and Melissa Klein up there in Oregon. Their bakery was shut down by the left because they said look in good conscience.

We can't we can't be a part of a same-sex ceremony. So the sword cuts both ways people have the right To boycott things if they want to. But but it seems to me that the folks that are doing that in a more sort of aggressive way are the folks on the left.

Now obviously, I believe that we should all have a legal right. To do those kinds of things. I was sure I was mainly speaking of do you think that it is the best? Strategy as an evangelist of the gospel to do those kinds of things.

Well, I don't I don't think it's an either-or situation. You know, you either preach the gospel or your boycott. I mean if you if you really have a strong opinion. Like for example if somebody's supporting Planned Parenthood and you don't want your money going to pay to abort babies then You look their place, you know wants that have transgendered bathrooms, which isn't a problem for transgendered folks.

It's a problem for everybody else because it allows people who could be Heterosexual predators to use that rule as a ruse to gain access to the bathroom where women and children are right. And I'm not going there if if that if that's how much you value my daughter's safety.

I'm not going. Mm-hmm. And of course, I wholeheartedly support my friends. I have a number of them who have Boycotts in front of Planned Parenthood Locations where they are reaching out with the gospel.

To women who are about to have their babies murdered now something like that. I obviously wholeheartedly support but a reverend buzz my co-host.

Bring up. I wanted to bring up basically the Idea that we were talking about. We have the right to boycott now, but what about things like operation rescue with you know? Like Christmas mentioned, you know a woman wants to go get an abortion and we're going to demonstrate at the abortion clinic.

What do you think about that. And there were actually.

Operation rescue if I'm not mistaken even did more radical things like chaining themselves to doors of abortion clinics and things like that.

Yeah, right. And actually the Supreme Court ruled against them in a way that said they couldn't get within so many feet of the abortion clinic. Or whatever. I don't know the exact details something under Rico laws.

But you know in any event we can debate the merits of certain tactics, but I agree that They're trying to stop an evil with something. I don't want to be complicit. It let me make one of the point about this because so many people confuse religion and morality on this point Chris.

It's true that the left fears that the right is going to impose their morality. The problem is the left is imposing their morality. See this isn't a matter of religion. This has nothing to do with the separation of church and state or any of that.

Nobody is trying to impose a particular religious viewpoint on anybody else except some. Who are jihadist they do want to impose everything they want. Sharia law imposed on everybody but really very few people in the Christian world want to force people to Be a part of a church or to engage in certain rites and rituals or to say they're part of a church.

We're not trying to impose religion, but everybody hear me on this because it's so often Misunderstood everybody's trying to legislate morality. You always hear you can't legislate morality. Newsflash.

That's the only thing you can't let. Every law tries to impose a moral point of view and when people say don't impose your morality first of all I say Why not would that be a moral? I mean here you are trying to impose your morality on me telling me I can't impose my moral point of view.

Everybody's trying to impose morality, but I think the better answer is this. Look this isn't my morality. I didn't make up the fact that murders wrong that rape is wrong that death is wrong that abortions wrong.

That men were made for women and women were made for men in the only way to reliably Perpetuate and stabilize society is to value one sexual relationship over every other sexual relationship. I didn't make any of this up.

This isn't my morality. This is the morality. The one Thomas Jefferson said was self-evident. I didn't make it up. You didn't make it up. I don't want to impose my morality. You don't you shouldn't impose your morality.

We ought to impose the morality. The basic more some of us suppress.

Yes, in fact the civil rights movement of the 60s that was entirely based on Imposing morality upon the culture that was trying to a fight the fight against the moral concept of integration and treating people According to the Contents of their character and not the color of their skin.

Exactly, and what's going on now is the LGBT community has co-opted that and said we're the same thing and the the answer is Well, everybody's equal. LGBT people are just as equal as everybody else, but not every behavior is equal.

You see the the issue with the movement regarding races. Race is irrelevant to behavior. Race has no impact on your behavior. But LGBT issues are often about behavior. So there's a difference between race which has nothing to do with behavior and LGBT issues.

Which often have to do with behavior and all laws discriminate against behavior, but they don't discriminate against persons. Every law says one behaviors right and the opposite behaviors wrong. For example marriage is a behavior.

Natural marriage is a behavior and same-sex marriage is a behavior. The question is which behavior should we promote? Should we promote natural marriage or should we promote same-sex marriage? And if you promote both what you're saying is is that marriage has nothing to do with gender and if marriage has nothing to do With gender then it has absolutely nothing to do with children, and if it has nothing to do with children.

Why should the government care you see the reason the government's involved in marriage is not to recognize that John loves Mary or that Bill loves Steve. That's not the reason the government's involved in marriage the government should shouldn't care what romantic relationships are about.

The government cares when two people come together to perpetuate and stabilize Society because it can do something that the government can't do and that is perpetuating stabilized society. So I talked about this a lot in the book correct not politically correct.

But the point is as you pointed out Chris every ball every position is a moral position. The only question is is it the right moral position and should it be imposed?

Love for Sinners Without Compromise on Sin

We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania who wants to know. I Agree that Christians must treat sinners with love and we must pray for them and do good for them. But I do have a problem that many modern evangelicals are caving into political correctness by treating homosexuals or those involved in that activity as though they are a part of an ethnic or national group by using phrases like the gay community by apologizing publicly for Harm that has been done to them when genuine Christians have not historically been known to do these things.

What do you agree that that modern evangelicals are going too far in the opposite? Stream of the God hates fag heresy.

Well, some might but to refer to a group to mean you necessarily agree with it, but when I call it and.

He was basically saying that are many modern evangelicals going to follow the opposite direction. From the God hates fags heresy saying obviously that is wrong that we shouldn't be. We shouldn't be hateful.

In fact, I don't even believe Those people I don't believe Fred Phelps was saved nor do I believe that that cult is saved because they delight in the death of The wicked. They don't want Homosexuals to come to repentance.

They just love talking about how they're going to hell and they take great joy in it, but I can see what the the listener is saying because I think that there can be.

A.

Candy-coating of this sin in order to be more comforting and kind and sweet to the the those who are involved in that activity and. When you just mentioned a second ago that you say that they are a community why don't we use phrases like the adulterer community then or the pedophile community.

Because well the issue of course with that Chris is is that there is no real lobby for those communities. Nobody who's saying I'm part of the adulterer community. There are people who say they're part of the LGBT community though, right?

They saw it. Yeah, it's it's it's a reference that that we make now if it's a bit that way. I don't necessarily think so. But the point that they're not Homosexuality is already permitted in this country.

It's been permitted for several years. And and even when it was prohibited by state law, it wasn't enforced my view. Now we're saying it's actually good with same-sex. Same-sex relationships with opposite-sex relationships is to say there's no difference between them.

Well, they there are different there's not differences between the people remember all people are equal. But not everything they do are equal. And in fact, I mentioned earlier you're saying well, there's no differences between men and women.

There's no differences between or where children come from or how shame they're not the same.

Yes, and what the government or any other entity does when they promote Homosexuality, even though they would never admit this what they are saying is Christianity is wrong and Don't you think that? Those that say we have to keep religion out of politics We have to keep religion out of the classroom and all of this that aren't they really?

Injecting their own religious views when whenever they make statements like Homosexuality is a completely acceptable Expression of sexuality if once they inject that idea into any sphere of influence They are they are whether they want to call it a religion or not or a religious view or not.

They are injecting a religious teaching into the sphere that they say religion should be absent.

Well, they're certainly injure interjecting a transcendent teaching. They're trying to say that they have certain rights. And it's a right to say same-sex marriage. The problem is as I point out in the book stealing from God and I'll talk about this at the New York apologetics conference.

Which is coming up next month. New York apologetics calm. They can check out it there. It's up in Smithtown, New York. The problem is there are no rights if there is no God. Everything's just a matter of opinion if there is no God.

Because if God does not exist if there's not a standard of goodness, and that's what we mean by God. That's his nature is is by good and he confers Rights. As our Declaration of Independence says on People if there is no God to confer rights everything's a matter of opinion.

Which means there's not only no right to same-sex marriage. There's no right to natural marriage. There's no right not only no right to abortion. There's no right to life. There's no right to anything if there is no God.

So the very people who say we got to get religion and we got to get God out of things are Taking the very foundation of rights out of the equation in our country and yet they're asserting they have certain rights.

So they're stealing from God while they argue against him.

School Prayer, the Constitution, and Public Education

We have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York. Who says that although I agree? That Christian Students should have the right to have Bible clubs and Christian clubs and have the right to silently pray.

I actually think it backfires on evangelical Christians when they want things like prayer and Christian teaching in the public schools because most of these teachers are likely to be non-christians. Why on earth would you want non-christians to lead your child in prayer or to teach them anything about?

Religion in a public school setting. Well, I don't know if that's really the point.

The point is that the Constitution prohibits school prayer and the answer is no. Because for the first hundred and eighty or so years of our country we had it and it wasn't considered an establishment of religion.

We weren't forcing young people to be a part of a religion or to say they had to be a part of a church. We were just acknowledging our history and we were acknowledging the fact that our country is founded on at least Theism that there is a God beyond the world who created he sustains the world and he grants us certain rights.

And ever since the Supreme Court illegitimately threw school prayer out of school in the early 60s. What's happened uncanny when you look at what's happened? We've revolted against the traditional moral point of view.

Founded in our Declaration of Independence and in all major religious viewpoints. Major religious religions and. Now we have anarchy in our schools. Basically. I mean think about the problems in schools.

Say in the 50s Chris, what were the big problems? Cutting in line talking chewing gum. Things what kind of promise do you have now 50 years later 60 years later? You've got rape you got abortion you've got gangs you got murder, I mean.

Anyone see a little bit of a difference here. What's the reason. But at least part of the reason is you're pulling the moral influence out of the schools and. You're letting kids just run wild and that's pretty much what's happened.

Yeah.

I am a graduate of Amityville High School on Long Island, New York. And when I went to Amityville High School in the 80s It was an interracial school predominantly Black students, I would say it was a 60 -40 ratio and yet there were rarely ever Any interracial fights or anything like that?

And today I understand there are metal detectors that you have to pass through when you go into the school.

Yeah, and Acknowledging that there is a God in fact right on the on the ceiling something like this it says. Can a nation be thought secure when we've given up the idea? That our rights are a gift from God.

And you know Jefferson was probably a deist or a quasi deist anyway. But he realized that without odd is the source of rights. Our nation won't long survive and we keep sliding down this moral abyss. Because and it's interesting that as we slide down the moral abyss Chris These people who are who want to get God out are asserting that it's the right thing to do and we have certain rights.

So again, they're arguing for rights without a right giver. They're stealing from God while they argue against them. And as I say, I'll talk about this in the New York apologetics conference. New York apologetics calm for information.

It's coming up at the end of April up there in Smithtown, New York.

Islam, Sharia Law, and Rights Without God

Yes, and it is interesting that many liberals and Probably should be more appropriately described as leftists. They want Christians evangelical Bible-believing Christians out of every sphere of politics and influence and yet they want Muslims in those same spheres of influence.

And yet the the Muslims would pose a far greater threat to them The Liberals if they were ever to gain political weight and power in this country.

Yeah, very I don't. I don't quite get it but it does seem that. There's some reason the leftists are all protective of Muslims and by their own. Their own admission folks who are jihadists and there's a significant minority of people who are.

They're saying that if we ever take over we want Sharia law in place and we want to get rid of the United States Constitution. In fact a friend of mine runs an organization called understanding the threat.

He's a former FBI agent and United States Marine. He tracks all this very closely. People should check out understanding the threat because it's quite interesting in fact. According to him one of the guys the guy the plaintiff who brought the lawsuit against Trump's second executive order Was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.

And I'm gonna read you a Question right now before we go to a break. So that's just way you have time to mull it over and you can answer it when we return. This is from Joe in Slovenia. Joe in Slovenia says please ask brother Frank to address the position that some promote that biblical Christianity does not involve engagement in politics social issues, etc.

Rather that we are to preach the gospel make disciples and plant churches. There are many prominent Christian leaders who promote this view from the scriptures. Are they wrong? Thanks for sharpening our focus today.

That was Joe in Slovenia and you could answer that when we return from the break. If anybody else would like to join Joe in Slovenia with a question of your own. For Frank Turek our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We will be right back. God willing after these messages.

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Call 866 403 3768 that's 866 403 3768 or go to battery Depot calm. That's battery Depot calm. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen and we are 37 days away from the New York apologetics Long Island conference and that is going to be held the 28th and 29th of April at Smithtown Christian School.

The theme is will you survive the culture and featured on the panel of speakers that weekend or those two days. Are Frank Turek who is our guest right now? Mary Jo sharp. Greg Kuckel will who will be our guest?

Coming up on the 7th of April. And Jay Warner Wallace. For more details go to New York apologetics calm. New York apologetics calm and click on conference and you'll have all the information that you need right now.

Our guest as I was saying is Frank Turek and we are discussing that theme that very theme of the conference. Will you survive the culture. If you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and before the break Frank I asked you the question of a listener in Slovenia Joe who says. Please ask brother Frank to address the position that some promote that biblical Christianity does not involve engagement in politics social issues, etc.

Rather we are to preach the gospel. Make disciples and plant churches. There are many prominent Christian leaders who promote this view from the scriptures. Are they wrong?

Yes. First of all a real practical reason and that is if you don't think that Politics is important. What do you mean? Well, let me ask you a question Chris. Can you do what we're doing right here on?

The radio at China you preach the gospel legally in those countries. It would be it would be the world's shortest broadcast. Can you have a church an open church. In those countries, no. Why because politically they've ruled it out.

So if you want to ensure that you have the freedom. To preach the gospel and live out the gospel as some on the left now won't let us do. Then you have to be involved in politics. Because politics the rules that are set in Washington the rules that are set in your state and local governments.

Affect almost everything you do including your ability to preach and live out the gospel. They're they're they're kind of the the politicians set the rules now. We take it for granted in this country.

Oh, yeah, we got a freedom of religion. Yeah, we can preach the gospel. We can start churches and all that that's eroding and if we don't stop the erosion and get engaged. It's going to go away completely the second reason I think or at least partially it's going to go away.

The second reason I think it's important is because biblically. That's what the biblical characters did. In fact, Jesus himself got involved in politics. You say how did he wear? What do you mean? Who did he go after most vociferously the Pharisees who were the Pharisees?

They were the religious and political leaders of Israel they partially ran Israel they were on the Sanhedrin the Jewish ruling council and Jesus Excoriated them for neglecting the weightier matters of the law and in our country.

We are neglecting the weightier matters of the law back then they were tithing their spices as Jesus said. But they neglected the weightier matters of the law mercy justice. The big issues in our country.

We're doing the same thing Chris. We're telling people what light bulbs they have to use but we won't tell people don't kill your children in the womb. We are neglecting the weightier matters of the law as well.

So yes Christians have to be involved in politics. In fact one way I do this if I'm in person with somebody. As I asked him it and to Google Korea Satellite night. Korea satellite night. You've you've probably seen the satellite picture of the Korean Peninsula at night.

It's shocking you look at South Korea. It's filled with light and productivity and the gospel. It's one of the more Christianized countries in the world. You look at North Korea. It's virtually completely black.

Why?

South Korea has political freedom. North Korea does not. South Korea has the gospel. North Korea is a concentration camp and the reason for it is politics. It's like our country wouldn't exist unless Christians got involved in politics.