A Casual Conversation About UFOs

Yes, let's talk UFOs, man. Okay, let's talk UFOs. So what's the deal with UFOs?

Why don't we start with a very open -ended question that can get you in a lot of trouble? What is the deal with UFOs?

What's the deal with UFOs? I think the honest answer would be, like, you don't know exactly everything that's going on with UFOs.

You know, for the longest time, probably you thought it was just, like, some weirdness going on.

What probably eventually changed my mind was listening to Hugh Ross years ago.

He has a number of interviews on YouTube you could look up.

But other folks, too. And then eventually, you know, maybe starting a couple years ago,

I don't know what it was in the Trump administration that may have started this, but the

Department of Defense started releasing video of,

I guess, pilots and stuff, of basically UFOs. Yeah, yeah.

Confirmed UFOs. And part of the problem, I guess, with defining UFO stuff is that it can range the gamut for a whole sorts of a lot of different phenomenon.

Yeah, definitely. Well, let me stop you right there and I'll introduce you, because I didn't do that. This is

Jeff. We spoke last time about satanic pedophile rings and things of that nature.

So I guess Jeff is, like, you could say Jeff is kind of like, what was it, the well -manicured man in X -Files?

Or the cigarette -smoking man? They weren't benevolent, though. You're benevolent. My main area of interest in the last however many years,

I actually run a Catholic YouTube apologetic channel. I do

Operation Saint Cyprian. If anybody wants to look that up. I'm also on the, for several, several years,

I've been doing basically Jewish apologetics, evangelism, street evangelism.

Good stuff. I trained under the founder of Jews for Jesus. I'm on the board of a small

Jewish ministry called Ami Ministry. So evangelism is my main focus in, you know, when

I'm not doing normal nine -to -five stuff. You know what I mean? I do know what you mean, yeah.

Outside of my normal responsibilities. And apologetics to me kind of is an outgrowth of just trying to reach different folks.

Right. And just trying to be prepared. So I'm not, I think last time

I spoke with you is like, when I first came to faith, I came to faith under a

Pentecostal umbrella. And there's a lot of, especially in the 90s, I couldn't tell you what the movement's like now.

But in the 90s, you know, that was the heyday of like the laughing stuff and all that sort of stuff.

And it kind of left a bad, for stuff I won't go into for personal and other reasons, it like left a bad taste in my mouth.

And I was becoming reformed even when I was still like charismatic. And one of the things

I kind of, as I've gotten older, is realize like, you know, I don't want to overcorrect and become,

I'm not a strict cessationist. I'm more a soft cessationist, I would guess.

Yeah, definitely. No, we definitely talked about that. Because, yeah, it's a good point. Because you don't want to, like you said, overcorrect and fall on the other side of the ditch.

Right? Right. But I guess the point is though, I'm glad, thanks for introducing me that way.

I was just kind of joking about you being the cigarette smoking man. But at the same time though, you're a serious person, but yet you're interested and you're willing to talk about something like UFOs, which so am

I, at least I think I'm a serious person. But it kind of has this reputation of being sort of like a tinfoil hat thing.

So why do you think this is worth spending, you know, half an hour to talk about? Well, I think the reason why it's worth spending time with now is that it's confirmed.

I mean, if the video that was released by the Pentagon in the last year or the videos from a few years ago,

I have no idea why this isn't a bigger thing. Yeah, me neither.

If this came out like in the mid -90s, this would be all you were hearing about.

Right. It comes out now and everybody is just kind of ignoring it.

So you need to have an idea of what's going on with UFOs.

Now the traditional spin is that it's going to be extraterrestrial. Kind of one of the things

James White likes to say is that you don't want to do just one thing.

So even though on my YouTube channel I'm primarily focusing on Catholic stuff, you don't want to be focused on one group or one thing as your totality of everything you do.

Right. Because you'll start having blind spots. You want to have an integrated approach.

I've come into contact with someone from college who I used to go to college with on Facebook and she believes in the whole

UFO stuff. One of the things we probably should start off by saying is that as soon as you get into the

UFO stuff, you're getting into occult stuff. No question about it. They naturally flow one right after another.

Someone who's seriously into UFOs is probably 99 times out of 100 is going to be into occult.

Yep. And occultic influence. So that's the question of, you know, how do we explain

UFOs? What do we want to say about UFOs? What are their history? I don't consider myself an expert.

I'm kind of relying on other people. Fair enough. To prepare for this,

I kind of read a lot of that Hugh Ross Kenton Samples book.

Right. Went over that. There's a lot of interesting things in that. I've been going over another resource, Steve Bancars, who came out of the new age a few years ago.

He's been on Apologia a few times. He has his own YouTube channel. He's worth. And I was thumbing through stuff on Amazon.

Yeah. And there's, you know, I was watching a documentary, not from a Christian perspective, where it's like this guy who starts, you know, him and his friends see

UFO. Next thing you know, he's channeling. Yeah. Yeah.

That's one of the things you see is that like. Definitely. It goes straight to occult pagan practices.

And I'm like, I got to turn this off. I can't deal. I don't want to, I don't want to delve into this so much. It's like just, it's, it's.

Jeff, you're so, you're so right. Let me just stop you because, because I think what we need to understand is, and I've said this on my channel before, that the

UFO conversation, it's very interesting, but it is a deeply religious, spiritual kind of a thing.

And you're right. It's just like one minute they're talking about spaceships and aliens and stuff like that.

And it's all fun and games, but like, it just seamlessly turns into theology. Seamlessly.

And it's, it's, it's interconnected. And so we ought to take it seriously because it's so religious in nature.

It is an alternate, you know, view of the world. It's an alternate spirituality. Well, not just that, but they, they almost immediately start bad mouthing.

There was an apology in the last few months, both their cultish podcast and their main podcast, which you can find on YouTube too.

Like they were going over Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind documentary.

I didn't want to buy it or rent it or anything like that, but it's just like, it immediately goes to bad mouthing

Christian theology. A lot of these contacts, this is mentioned in Hugh Ross's book too, is that it almost immediately goes to,

I'm going to, you know, we're bad mouthing traditional Christianity and traditional Jesus Christ. I mean, it's one thing if we say

Jesus Christ is an alien, but. So that's one of the things.

And you mind if I go over a little of the kind of the history? Let's go. Let's go.

I learned that the term Foo Fighter doesn't just refer to a band, but there was basically

UFO sightings in both the Pacific and European theaters from fighters, airplane fighters.

And they were seeing basically orbs of light that were in formation or seeing things.

And there's been some naturalistic explanations offered, but I don't know if they're that convincing or whatever.

Right. Right. One of the things I know that was really interesting in Hugh Ross's book was the alien contact kind of changes over time.

So in the, let's just give an example. So in the 1890s, you have people seeing essentially dirgibles.

Okay. Maybe about 10 or 15 years before they're invented. Or they start seeing at a later period of time, maybe in the 40s or something, they're seeing planes or something equivalent of planes, flying saucers that are going 1700 miles per hour before jets were widespread or invented.

Maybe we had some minimal jet technology in Nazi Germany or something like that.

So it's almost like, I know other people on the other side, and maybe some

Christian who work in this field don't like it, but I'm like, you know that meme where it's like, I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens.

Right. Of course. I'm not saying it's demons, but it's demons. Right. And I'm not saying every single scenario is demons, but you can kind of see like one of the things

Hugh Ross tracks is that, you know, originally when people made contact with these aliens, they were from Venus.

And then once people started realizing Venus is 900 degrees, the atmosphere can crush you.

Right. Then they became from Jupiter, the nearest star, and then they're on the other side of the galaxy or different.

And some, even some non -Christians are basically the leading theory. And I think

Alex Jones mentions this in the, Alex Jones, if you can follow him because he's all over the place, but he makes an interesting point on, he views them as interdimensional beings.

Essentially that's what an angel or a demon is, right? They're interdimensional. You have

UFOs, the Tic Tac UFO is the one I think that was released recently where someone was saying it went from 60 ,000 feet to almost instantaneously one foot of sea level.

Right. You can't, that's defined the laws of physics in any measurable way.

You have things that are moving that don't have any physical effects on the surrounding. Right. And I've seen videos.

Right. I've seen things moving and it goes through water and through air, and there's no discernible difference of friction or anything like that.

It just, it's just as if it's not even there. I think the best explanation for this is that they're from a, a more broad perspective, interdimensional.

Right. They're not physical. Although there have been some reports or, you know, we have technology that was captured from alien.

I mean, if you can travel across dimensions and the universe, and I'm not sure why you would crash land in Arizona.

Right. Exactly. Or be able to call for help or something like that.

If we confirm that there is some sort of physical technology that got left behind,

I think we need to incorporate, incorporate that on how we view stuff, but that's not a, there's nothing really confirmed yet.

I don't think that would change my hypothesis. Yeah. I don't, one of the things

I've also been involved in in a long time is just doing an intelligent design creationism sort of stuff.

And so this is part of like, you need to have an integrated approach, right? I know like life didn't start by chance here.

It's not going to, that's not going to change just because you add a lot of time or you put it in a different planet.

Right. Or something like that. It's just the, the way life works the light way life is built is, is, is that's just not feasible.

Right. Right. Yeah. Interesting, interesting stuff. So, so, so I guess, you know, from, from, from your perspective,

I mean, you know, you're not saying they're demons, but they're demons. How do, how do we, how do we approach the, the sightings and, and, and the, and the stuff that we're seeing?

Yeah. Sorry. So for the way Hugh Ross does it like, so, and I think this is common in the

UFO world in general, there's going to be a certain amount of sightings that can be explained.

Yeah. By just natural stuff or whatever. And then there's what they call residual

UFOs, which are legitimate. Maybe, I don't know what percentage there are, maybe it's 10 % or less or something.

And you don't want to discount the person. Basically, according to, to what

Hugh Ross has found, and basically I'm going off of his book, is that almost always the person has something to do with the occult.

They're involved in the occult and then they start seeing stuff. And it doesn't have to be them. It could be like a family member.

Right. Or a friend or, or, or something like that, where you're, you're, you know, you're opening up gateways and stuff.

One of the things I should, you're familiar with like the gray alien. Yeah, of course.

Very typical gray alien thing. Yep. You know who Alistair Crowley is? Yeah. The Satanist guy.

the famous Satanist guy. Yeah. Magic witchcraft guy. He did whatever magic rituals and came into contact with a being and stuff.

And what he drew out pretty much looks like a gray alien. Got it. So there is a super occult thing.

And I think another thing, a typical thing I think you'll see from people who, who take these UFOs seriously, who come from an occultic magic sort of background, is that the aliens are here to help us or save us and bring us to God or higher consciousness or something like that.

And essentially it's like, it's just, they're playing with the demonic.

They're opening up doors. They're, they're, they're playing with fire is, is, and I think that's the main.

Okay. And that doesn't mean everybody who sees a UFO does that. There was a famous,

I guess, forties incident with a bunch of UFOs and lights and stuff in Los Angeles. And one of the speculations is that some of the, the very occultic members, maybe it was

Crowley. And there was some other guy who has like a crater on the moon named after him. I forget his name.

Right. Oh, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I forget his name too, but I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. Maybe they were doing some rituals and stuff like that.

And maybe that's why like everybody saw stuff and, you know, so, so anyway, I, and I think one of the other takeaways besides you have how to understand this stuff is, is just that life is a lot weirder than the materialists want to admit.

Yeah. Or even us as cessationists want to admit. Yeah. And I think one of the things we do is we kind of discount kind of Satan.

Now I think that I kind of feel like, Satan is working and you're being played multiple ways, right?

You spend most of your time on the woke church movement. And essentially that's how

Satan is trying to play us in one direction. But there's another, you know, there's other stuff going on, which is, you know, could involve this, the alien stuff and all.

And I don't, you know, we're just pawns. I hear you. No, you're absolutely right. I mean, there's so many fronts to how we're, we're, he's attempting to deceive us.

Right. And if he's not going to get you with one, maybe he'll get, maybe, um, you know, the

UFO stuff appeals to some people, but you know, the vast majority of people want to, you know, have their righteousness come through, uh, uh, you know, woke religion, which is essentially a replacement religion without forgiveness.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Uh, to tie it into your channel, I guess, but, um, but this is just kind of like, you have to, you, you kind of want to know what the different fronts are, right?

You, you can have, um, you know, there's different false religions.

There's, and this is just kind of one front. There's, I think as we dechristianize, we're not going more materialistic.

We're in the, in the strict sense, not the, I want money sort of sense, but the, you know, we're not going into materialism.

We're going more into neo -paganism. Right. And essentially the UFO stuff is, uh, uh, is the neo -paganism.

Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And well, you know, and the thing is it's, it's, it's amazing how interconnected everything is.

I mean, as, as you're right, we're, we're kind of in this neo -pagan kind of revival here. and, and now is the time it's just everything.

So everything's just matches up. It's like, now, now is the time that, you know, the

U S government admits, Oh yeah, we've been studying this for decades, decades. Well, that's the main thing there.

Uh, I forget who the UFO person is. Let me see if I can, uh, look up the name. Yeah. Yeah. See if you can look it up.

Cause I, I know who you're talking about. He's, he's, Oh man, I, I, the name's on the tip of my tongue.

I just actually watched something about this guy. Well, no, uh, there's

Christian guy. Oh, you're okay. Maybe we're thinking, um, let me see if I, uh,

I'm trying to think of his name. Um, let me see if, uh, cultish, uh, had him cultish.

Uh, well, anyway, he was describing, uh, the background.

Oh, uh, Raymond, uh, Boshi or, uh, B -O -E -C -H -E.

Yeah. Uh, he, he has this, um, he was, he was contacted by a couple governmental officials and the kind of psychic stuff that him and his, um, that the government's involved in.

He was, he was, uh, he had a couple of Christians who were kind of concerned. I, that, that to me is probably the main reason why they were, it could be a main reason you see stuff is that what does the military want to do?

Military, if you give them a nerf gun or a nerf football, they want to see how they can weaponize it.

Right? Like how do we weaponize dolphins and German shepherds or, or, or computer viruses.

Right? So if the, they want to, you know, especially after World War II, it was like, how do we weaponize the paranormal?

And there was a bunch of stuff. Uh, let me put it in our chat. I'll, I'll put the link to his papers.

Sure. Um, there we go. Uh, where the

Soviets were doing a ton of stuff and the Americans were following, like, so the whole like men who stare at goats movie thing that they were essentially harming people remotely using the paranormal.

So that's all, all interconnected and it's all really messed up. And the fact that our government and even the

Soviet government involved in it, who knows what sort of spiritual repercussions that has.

It's true. Exactly. This is exactly my point, because, you know, again, so they've, these revelations of these videos or whatever, of the, of these, these objects have come out recently, but, um, they've been studying it for decades and decades and been doing things and doing experiments for decades and decades.

Um, and you don't know what kind of impact that's having on how things are today.

I mean, it has to have an impact. Um, it can't be good, right? It can't be good. No, to be opening these, these, these, these doorways, like you, like you described these spiritual realms and stuff like that.

It's a, you know, it can't be good. And, um, and so it's just, it's very interesting how it's, how interconnected it is, by the way, the, the, the guy that you were referring to, the

Satanist, uh, rocket scientist, Jack Parsons, Jack Parsons. Yeah. Jack Parsons.

He was, he was project, but, uh, yeah, yeah, he was, uh, he was an occultist.

He was a rocket engineer. He was a chemist. Um, and he has a, a, a, what's it called?

A crater named after him. And so this is the kind of guy that's like, and he's open about it.

It's not like he ever hit it. He's doing seances and rituals to goddesses of, you know, of, you know,

God only knows what, um, it can't be good. If I could go on a tangent here, uh, there's all sorts of weird stuff.

Like I've been getting into there's, uh, uh, I would look up a missing four one, one, uh, person where just people just randomly go missing in, uh, uh, uh, unreal.

That guy has a lot of, uh, lectures on YouTube, but he has like a, there's one free. If you have Amazon prime, uh, the through the black, uh,

YouTube channel does a lot of stuff about satanic ritual abuse. I follow them. Uh, they have a documentary, like one of their first ones.

It's not like they wouldn't say like their best work, because it's their first, but they have a thing you can watch on Amazon prime detestable with all these people who came out of like satanic ritual abuse and stuff.

But like this, all this occultic stuff, including UFOs is interconnected because like I'm watching the missing four one, one, one stuff about how about people just, you know, they go missing, no, no explanation or, or that sort of thing.

And at the end, somehow it transitions to people are seeing like orbs and weird stuff in the woods.

uh, you know, so it gets, it all gets connected. Uh, so it's, and I, I'm not sure entirely what you do with it as a, as a way of like, if you come across someone with this, you know, me, the, the possibility is high that they have an occultic background.

You're dealing with spiritual stuff and also how to interpret this. So if some part of some spacecraft, quote unquote, eventually pops up, you know, we just gotta, you know, be prepared, know how to interpret it.

Don't be shocked. Like, Oh no, there's aliens. There's not aliens. Okay. Right. Right. I'm with you on that.

I'm with you on that. Yeah, no, I think, and so this is, you know, I'm glad,

I'm glad we're having this conversation because there's a, there's an element of, um, of, uh, just say

Americans, but definitely evangelical Americans too, that, um, wants to put a black mark on anyone who would even dare utter stuff like this.

That's sort of sounds like a conspiracy theory. And that's how that's actually 20 years ago.

This would be like cook stuff. And now you have the Pentagon just releasing stuff. Right.

And so, and so there's, there's almost like this, this play. Um, and this is an, I would argue, this is another play of Satan to make it.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is the, the satanic rocket engineer. That's not satanic. It's you who, who has this idea that, the government's involved in these seances and stuff.

You're the satanic one. It's like, I really want to listen. Part of my channel.

I've always said this is to make certain conversations that, that the spirit of the age is saying are, are off limits.

I want to put it back on the table. I want to, I want to put it back. Reasonable people can actually talk about this and not be completely wacky.

Although I will say, what happens when you put stuff off the table? Like, so you see this with like some of the woke people, like you can't mention that different cultural, there might be something in someone's cultural background that like is causing problems or you're racist.

Right. So what that's going to, and I'm going to draw an analogy to UFOs in a moment. So what that, what happens is, is that someone can't, there's going to be a certain amount of people who just be like,

I can't deny what I see. Right. That certain cultures, certain segments, not due to their skin color or race.

Right. Have some issue. Well, what I would say is not. So when you see that and can't and can't deny that you're going to go, they're more likely to go full bore racist.

Sure. Right. Sure. Because like these people aren't, aren't, what else are they lying about?

They're lying about everything. Right. So it's the same thing where if you say, oh,

UFO, no, nothing, you know, don't worry about conspiracy. Don't worry. That doesn't mean every conspiracy is true or every, every interpretation we have is true, but if you're not taking it seriously, so what's going to happen with someone who, some

Christian who's like, well, I guess that means, you know, materialistic evolution is true.

And right now the Bible must not be true. Right. And they just go into a tailspin and lose their faith.

Right. Right. Because they couldn't think, they couldn't, they weren't prepared to interpret the data.

It's like, you see this with like King James only advocates, right? Well, they run into a textual variant.

Right. And a certain, you know, instead of like, it like, it breaks their whole paradigm and then become

Bart Ehrman or something like that. Right. As opposed to just being like, okay, let's figure out how we deal with textual variants.

Like things are a little messier. When you try to make things not messy. Uh, that's when people go to either,

I think of it, R. Scott Clark, uh, calls us the quest for, um, illegitimate, uh, religious certainty.

Sure. Sure. But you can have that impulse in non -religious, uh, segments. That's where it's like, I'm just going to go to Rome or I'm going to be a new

King James only advocate because like things are messier in life.

So, and I think that might be a issue with like strict cessationist, right. Where, uh, depending how straight

I don't, I don't, yeah, I know, I know what you mean. You don't have to define it, but yeah, I know exactly kind of what you're saying here, where if they run into the fact that, you know, demons exist or things are a little messier than normal, where, uh,

I'm not saying new row, you know, even though 99 % of the stuff in charismatic circles is probably like, you know, whacked, whacked.

That doesn't mean like, um, Oh, who was the, who's the, uh, abortion guy who works with RC Sproul in Orlando?

Oh, uh, John Barros. Yeah. I saw a clip of him recently where he, someone was hearing him in a different language or something at the abortion clinic.

Well, what do you do with that? You know, you just, just count that. I mean, obviously the guy's not,

I don't think that's something he would just make up. Right. Right. So what are you saying? Like, well, there can't be signed.

Well, like, you know, at a certain point there's a, there are certain things we hold more strong.

Like you, you don't want to go to one extreme where it's like, uh, anything

I experienced overturns anything I, I know from scripture. Yeah. But then there's another thing where like our experience can help tweak.

What is like, do you hold the strict cessationism stuff?

Like as tightly as you do say the Trinity? No. You know what

I mean? Like, so things, some things are more clear than others. That's all. Yeah. Well, I think you're right.

Definitely. Some things are more clear than others. And I think when, when, when, when you take it off the table completely, and I don't think many, you know, classical cessationists would do this, but you're right.

Like there are certain there I've, I've run across the state, uh, cessationists that are to the point where it's even off the table completely.

Yeah. There's no way they're having dreams about Christ. No way at all. Um, and that's, yeah, that's a real problem for me in general, but, but anyway, it's the same thing with the conspiracy theory things.

Like we all know that not every conspiracy theory is real. We know, we all know that they're not all believable, but when you use that as like a, a

Teflon shield, uh, or like, uh, to beat people over the head, well, that's a conspiracy theory. It's almost like weaponizing it as a slogan.

That's not helpful to anybody because you're right. Like, what do you do now? Because you beat people over the head for decades that, that UFOs are a conspiracy theory.

Now the government's saying that they study it. Um, so, so they have video of it. They've got YouTube and look at the, uh, look at the

UFOs. Right. We've got, we've got videos of it. And so it's like, so, so, but you were lying to those people when you were, you were trying to bully them or intimidate them in some way.

And they're going to look at you like, so what else are you lying to me about? I agree with that. I think that's very, uh, that's very, uh, a very sad, uh, result for this kind of thing.

It's one thing to say, Hey, like based on the evidence we had at the time, sure. You know, like I think

Oswald acted alone, but if I see a CIA document that says like, you know, we sent

Ruby, uh, into like cover up for Oswald, you know, sort of thing like that. So it was your big defense and it's a good one.

I mean, I think that's when I spent like the most time with conspiracy theory wise. Right. And for years

I thought like, Oh, you know, I was probably the mob got, um, uh, hired

Oswald. I didn't know, I don't know if there was multiple shooters or whatever that seemed to be. Cause that made sense. And then just as time went on,

I'm just kind of like, well, Oswald tried to kill some other dude, some general, like a few months prior.

And, uh, the ballistics do seem to match up and in lieu of anything else.

Now, if you're president, like people always want to kill you. So that's nothing new, you know, like, you know, that he had enemies in the

CIA or, or whatever. Well, I'm just saying is like, so, and even if I, if so, if I find out like I'm wrong,

I'm wrong, but I'm not going to be telling someone like about the JFK conspiracy, that, um, that's, um, that they're wax, whack jobs or anything.

To me, like the biggest, the most long running conspiracy stuff is all the antisemitic stuff you run into where the

Jews control the world and, uh, the banking system and Hollywood and stuff and, and all that sort of thing, which, you know, is very damaging.

So you gotta, you can't treat all every conspiracy, uh, uh, the same. Definitely.

That's just it. I mean, how do we sound to the outside world when we say, uh, all these

UFOs or demons or, uh, you know, Satan is actually in a conspiracy that's behind like what you're seeing in America today or something like that.

So, uh, but we know from scripture that that is happening. Like our, our enemies are, are spiritual.

Good stuff. Good stuff. So what else? Uh, do you have any other words of wisdom for people who are thinking about this for, uh, for the first time or, or, um,

I would get exposed. I would cover some of the sources. We mentioned Hugh Ross's lights in the sky and little green men's book.

Uh, because it goes over like the evolution aspect of it to about it being impossible.

Um, I would go over, I would look up the cultish episodes from an apology.

I would look up Steve band cars and I would look up with some of the missing four one, one stuff.

That's interesting. I would go through, through the black. I would watch that detestable, uh, on Amazon prime that, um, just to get a sample of like, what's going on there.

But I wouldn't like the missing, the missing, the missing four one, one stuff will freak you out. It's just, it's freaky.

Yeah. It's like, I don't want to go camping. I always never wanted to go camping. I really like,

I really liked that guy too, because he doesn't go like, he doesn't like give you too much of like his opinion of what's going on.

He'll just give you what happened and what the consistencies are. Yeah. It is freaky.

And I can't explain this sort of stuff or just to give a little example, like people like in by rocks and the woods.

And they just like, they're with other people and they get separated at some point and then boom, they're gone. There's no trace of them.

Bloodhounds can't find them. Right. Maybe their body shows up like 20 miles away.

Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't. It doesn't. Yeah. And it's just like, and that's where it's like,

I don't know if that's demons or not, but that's really weird. It's it's, it's super weird.

Yeah. Um, so yeah, so there's a lot of stuff going on. I would assume with satanic ritual abuse and stuff there.

Yeah. We've talked last time about like all the occultic stuff going on in Hollywood. And we, you got the

Jeffrey Epstein thing, even if that doesn't involve the occult. So, uh, but what I would not do what

I am not doing is I'm not going to be like, and now I'm going to look in a book about how these magic spells are, are performed.

And like, when I was watching the video and the guy started channeling, they showed like in the documentary, him starting channel.

And I'm like, I am done with this. Yeah. I don't want to watch this. I'm out of here.

I don't want to, you know, you only need to study so much unless you're like an expert in the field.

Right. You, I don't want to be spending all my time. It would be like, if you're in, you're trying to battle, like, uh, let's say, you know, the, the, the, the pedophile stuff or whatever.

Right. I don't need to see the images. Like I, I need to, I can know about it at a higher level without getting into, uh, getting myself, uh, um, that dirty.

Right. I don't need to see what Epstein was doing. I just need to know about it at a, you know, there's a value of knowing about something at a higher level, like a more, less granular level.

Yeah. It reminds me of all the people I've had to, uh, to, uh, unfollow because they're sharing the cuties.

Uh, yeah, I don't need to see the, I don't need to see that. I don't need to see that. I don't need to see,

I trust. It's like, Oh, like I, I believe you, you know what

I mean? I believe you. I, you know, we, we, we, so the main takeaway, I think this is what we said our last time is just, you know, pray, pray, pray, you know, like you're bad.

It's a good, at the very least, it's a good reminder. So even if I'm evangelizing Catholics or Jews, or you're dealing with the woke church stuff, like whatever you're doing, uh, your battle is spiritual and you need to be on your knees and you can't be relying on your own strength.

And your enemy is way more smarter than you. Sure. Sure.

And, uh, when you kind of see all the chess pieces moving around you and you're just a pawn, you're like,

Oh yeah. So for, but fortunately we don't have to rely on our own strength. It's true.

I mean, we were, you know what I'm 30, you know, almost 40. I don't know how old you are, but we've been doing this for, for a few decades and, and, uh, and Satan's been here for, for thousands and thousands of years dealing with us.

Right. So, you know, yeah. All right. Well, listen, Hey, thank you so much for, for doing this.