July 7, 2017 Show with Charlie Liebert on “Answers for the Hope That is In You”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's our host, Chris Arnz. Good afternoon, Cumberland County,.

Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnz and your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Friday on the 7th day of July 2017, and I'm delighted to have in studio today someone who is trading roles today.

He is normally an occasional visiting guest host, or should I say guest co-host on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, typically when we are discussing things like the debate between young and old Earth or between creation versus Darwinian evolution, etc.

But today we have in the studio Charlie Liebert of sixdaycreation .com as our guest, and we are going to be discussing answers for the hope that is in you, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron, this time as a guest, Charlie Liebert.

Thank you, Chris, it's great to be here. And in studio with me also is our visiting co-host as well, Buzz Taylor. It's great to have you back in the studio. So we're like a co-co-host today. Yeah, well not really because we only have one guest and two...

Okay, listen, there's nothing to split over. That is darker than anybody knows that joke anyway. And a reformed Presbyterian sitting in between them. That's right. And Charlie Liebert, before we get into the discussion at hand of answers for the hope that is in you, which is one of the books that you have written, tell us about sixdaycreation .com for our listeners who are discovering you for the first time.

Yes,.

Sixdaycreation.com and the Creation-Evolution Debate

Sixdaycreation .com is a website that's been active for almost 25 years that basically has information answering questions about creation versus evolution. There's probably 30 or 40 video segments on there answering questions, and a lot of material that's printed on there.

And that's, in a sense, that's the source of the book, but I'll get to that later on when I talk.

About how the book came to be written. Great. And well, tell us about, first of all, I know that you have a couple of books that you've written. Yes. We have already dealt with a previous book on this program.

Tell us about that book and then enter into a description of.

Your new book. Okay, let me begin with about six years ago, I was teaching evangelism to a group of Christian businessmen in Greensboro, North Carolina. And one question kept coming up again and again, that I'm getting ready to witness to somebody and they asked me a question, like where he can get his wife.

And I'm stumped. And I don't have an answer to that question. And I get off the track and I never get to witness it. So I was challenged by that. How do you handle that? And that's the source of the first book.

The first book is basically, and I'll give you the title, is Always Be Ready to Give an Answer. And the subtitle is A Former Atheist Personal Christian Evangelism Plan. And I'll get to that atheism in a minute.

So I was wrestled with how do we get past that? Well, I went to look at what Jesus did. What Jesus did when he was asked a question, very often he went asked with another question. And he did that on purpose, because he wanted the people he was talking to, to get to their presuppositions.

When he deals with the Pharisees, particularly, he does that. They asked him about the baptism of John. And he says, he doesn't answer the question. He says, let me ask you a question. Where did it come from?

And what he's doing is he's forcing them to go back and look at their presuppositions. Well, that's what I do in this book. I say, when you get to ask the question, follow with the question. A question like, why did you ask me that?

If I answer that question, will it make any difference in your view of Christ? And you get to the presuppositions. I call that taking spiritual temperature. And a person will be hot, cold, or lukewarm, any one of them.

And based on that, taking that temperature then, you go to a gospel presentation. But you always, before you get to the presentation of the gospel, you give your testimony. And I say, I spent a whole chapter on that here about giving testimony.

And I give some examples of my own. You get a five minute testimony, a 20 minute testimony, and the testimony that goes on and on and on. And of those three, you decide what to do. Because before you answer the question, you're going to give your testimony.

So they're going to get the seed planted. And I use an example in my book of a fellow I know, Frank. I was working on my MBA in Iona, New York, in college, in New Rochelle. And Frank was one of the people I graduated high school with.

And I saw him one day on campus and said, gee, Frank, I didn't know you were going to school. Well, he was there for a short time course. But he said, let's have dinner. So we had dinner one time just before class.

And Frank sat across the table. Now, at this time in my life, I'm a hardcore atheist. I've bought the goods on evolution. I believe everything about there can't be a God because. So Frank sits across the table from me and he tells me the story of his life.

He graduated high school, same year I did. Married his high school sweetheart, had two children, a dog, house, and a successful business. And then one day his house burned down, his two children and his wife died in the fire.

Wow. So from that, he said, he looked me across the table, he said, Charlie, that changed everything. He eventually became homeless, he lost his business, he lost his sanity, he became an alcoholic. And then I'm sitting there.

Now, as an atheist, I got no answers to these questions, right? I mean, I got no real answers to that. Well, how do you deal with a person that's had this kind of tragedy in their life? I have no answers.

And he looks across the table, points his finger at me and says, Charlie, because of all that happened to me, I came to know Jesus and it's the most important thing in my life. Praise God. Now, this is 15 years before I would come to know Christ, but he planted a seed and that seed would germinate.

So that's one of the things I highlighted in my book, first book here, as to planting seeds. Just give your short testimony, just plant a seed. And the title of that book again? That's Always Be Ready to Give an Answer.

And the subtitle is A Former Atheist's Personal Christian Evangelism Plan. Okay, so I'm working on this book, and I've got a friend I meet with about every two weeks, Bob Kelly in Greensboro. Bob is kind of a spiritual mentor.

We actually mentor each other. And Bob says to me, after I'm talking about the book a couple times, he says, Charlie, you can write in that book, that's fine. But he says, but how about the answers to the questions?

I mean, you know, you've got a website, you answer questions all day long, and people sending questions into you on the internet. So that became the book that we're talking about today, Answers for the Hope that is in You.

It's 106 questions that people ask Christians that Christians may get stumped on. Some of the questions like, let's see, let's just get open it up here and take a look. Some of the.

Questions. While you're looking. For sure, I'm going to repeat our email address for anyone who would like to join us on the air with a question for Charlie Liebert. It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Ch r i s a r n as a Nancy Z as in zebra e n as a Nancy at gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name, your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. I call.

These first four questions I put in the very first section. And I call them chronic unbelievers challenge questions, because these are the questions that get asked by people who want to challenge us as as Christians.

And I'll share a short story about one of them before I start. I was doing a secular radio show in in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, probably 15 years ago. And with typically when you do a secular show, you'll meet the host of 1520 minutes before the show begin just to kind of get to know each other a little bit.

So we're sitting in the studio getting ready to go on the air. And the host says to me, what kind of questions you're going to ask Charlie? And I said, Well, I know what I'm going to get asked is where'd Cain get his wife.

And he starts to laugh and thinks that's the funniest thing. He says nobody's gonna ask you that stupid question. Third caller asked the question. And he just literally cut his mic off and started cracking up because he couldn't believe couldn't believe I could put the answer.

So that's the first question where'd Cain get his wife? The second question that people like to challenge is what happens to the native in the jungle that never heard the gospel? Does he go to hell? Third question, why do bad things happen to good people?

And the fourth one is kind of a area where there's a whole lot of statements. I only believe in what I can see faith is for fools. The only reality is this material world, the materialist view of the world, okay, that the only answers are material answers.

That's the first four questions I addressed. And I addressed those in a chapter by itself in a good deal of depth. And then I go into the science and the science is divided into different sciences, astronomy, biology, geology, questions about the Bible, evolution versus creation, history and culture, dinosaurs, and Noah's flood.

That's the major topical areas. And there's 105 questions altogether in the book answered. So that's the purpose of this book to answer those questions. I will put it in the hands of Christians to say, when you've got those questions, here's some answers.

So if you take book one, which is the plan, and book two, which is the answers, you've got a package that allows you to become a good witness for Christ.

And I'm assuming your answers are documented.

Yes, they're all there. I tried to keep them simple. Okay, simple in the sense of not getting.

Into complex science, but trying to explain things simply, for your average person, who is going to be engaging in conversation with other average people who are not necessarily trained scientists doesn't mean that the answers are any less true.

It just means that they're not more.

Technical. Yeah. And I deal also in the first part of the book with the question of the two, the two different models creation versus evolution. And I just I just want to cover one thing here. Because the two views are so directly opposed to each other.

And I'm going to read I'm going to first read the one on our on biblical view. And then I'm going to read the one for secular or evolutionary view. Yeah, I'm created in God's image corrupted by sin, but redeemed by grace.

I have a hopeful future because I trust in Christ alone. If God is my creator than the universe contains absolutes in both science and morality. My salvation and my future are secure by faith in Christ.

Now, it goes on to quote some scripture. Let's go to the other side. Let's look at the evolutionary side. If I believe I came from dirt, and we'll go back to dirt when I die, then when life ends, it has no meaning.

I have no hope in the future beyond the grave. If the universe is random, then it contains no moral absolutes and all rules can be created by human opinion. People who believe in dirt to dirt often despair to death by committing suicide.

I'll go on to cite the example of Ernst Hemingway. So those are two very opposite views. And they're basically covered in a sense in that book. Now, that brings me to the third book, which is still in process.

Okay. And that's when I went back to my friend, Bob Kelly, Bob said, again, Charlie, you've covered creation evolution a little bit in that book, but you need to you need to really cover it in depth. So the third book is going to have a non biblical title.

It's going to be called without three miracles, Darwin's dead. And the three miracles are something from nothing. I call that magic, life from dead stuff, I call that Frankenstein, and uphill molasses, which is going uphill in a downhill world or entropy, if you're if you know your physics.

Well, one thing that.

Before I get any listener questions, or should I should I say before I read any of the listener questions we already have, because I have a number of them already. I have a question of my own. Does our co host the Reverend Buzz Taylor know that you use a photograph from his family photo album as an evolutionary chart in your book?

Yeah. One of those ape man pictures. Yes. All right. Well, we do have some listeners already. Who have written into us we have Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. And Ted says, I watched a six minute video clip of yours titled what happened after Noah's flood.

In it, you claim that there was a single ice age of approximately 250 years following the Great Deluge. One thing that's always puzzled me about that time period is that there was a very short time span between the flood and the construction of the Tower of Babel.

Though we cannot deduce the precise length of this period solely from the biblical chronology. The longest estimate I have ever heard is 350 years. How is it possible to go from a population of eight persons after the flood to a population that could produce an engineering marvel such as the Tower of Babel and so short a time?

According to Genesis 10 and 11, Babel was only one city among many. How could the population base of the entire planet, let alone of one city, be sufficient to produce the technology know-how required for such a project?

Not to mention the management and transportation of raw materials that would be needed, as well as skill and management of the labor force. The demographics and ergonomics just don't seem to add up. Okay, let's let's say that.

From a couple sides. First of all, the Ice Age doesn't affect the whole planet. It affects the northern and southern climatic areas, okay? The ice only comes down to mid-Europe and comes down to, in the North American continent, comes down to the Great Lakes.

So although the ice is there, and the ice is taking water out of the oceans, that's an important aspect also. So the Ice Age doesn't affect an area like the Middle East where the Tower of Babel is going to be constructed.

How do you get that number of people? That's not hard. Yeah, there was no TV available. If you take, and I'll use 300 years to be a little more conservative, because you're 350. 300 years, if a generation is 20 years, okay, that's how long it takes to basically cycle through and have a next generation, next generation.

A generation is 20 years, and you have people now that are propagating. They're not having one or two children. They're having a myriad of children. It's not hard to get to thousands and thousands and actually millions in that time period.

Just take your Excel spreadsheet and just work it out. And they're also getting married as.

Young teenagers typically. Yes, they are. And that even was common going into the 17th century,.

Really, and the 18th century. But you have to remember, life expectancy is 35 to 40 years old. As soon as a girl starts to have her medical cycle, you're going to start to be able to say, let's produce children.

So they're going to get married as early as they can, because they're not.

Going to live that long. Well, guess what, Ted? You have won a free copy of Charlie's book, Answers for the Hope That Is in You, direct, simple Christian answers to the world's hard questions. This is a beautiful hardback book, and we thank sixdaycreation .com for supplying these books today for our listeners.

Chris, let me ask Charlie a question before we go on to our next listener. Sure. Our Buzz Taylor has a question for Charlie. Could there also be a problem there.

Of overestimating the nature of the Tower of Babel? Yes, it could be very well. Very well, yes. I mean, the fact that they were building a tower to reach to heaven doesn't mean, one, they succeeded, two, that they were actually going to build a skyscraper.

Right. It's not.

Clear how tall it was, but from the mounds we have in that part of the world, you know,.

30, 40 stories is probably maximum, maximum height. All right. We have another listener here that has a question for you. We have Jenny from Ben Salem, Pennsylvania. She actually has questions. The two toughest questions I have been confronted with, though.

I have an answer to these questions, but in either case, I would like to know what would your response be to these questions. Okay. How is it possible that some native out of the Amazon jungle can be ever saved?

They are isolated from the world and only known to worship objects. Isn't that an auto-condemnation from God? So where is that God of love? It seems that if there is a God, he is full of hate. What would be the best approach?

I'll take that question first. Okay, let's approach that question. You.

Have to begin with the state of man, and you have to understand that mankind is condemned by both his birth and his behavior, that that condemnation covers all of mankind, that no men get to heaven automatically.

All men are condemned to hell, and God chooses to save some. How he does that and why he does that is a mystery to us. It says he did it before the foundation of the world, but we don't understand that.

But we do know that God brings salvation to some, and I would say that the people that are isolated from the world and don't hear the gospel, they're condemned already. They don't have a chance in that sense.

But, let me give an example. There was a Hindu in India, his name was Sundar Singh, and Sundar Singh, for his life, searched for truth. And when he finally came to Christ, and finally realized that Jesus was the answer, he said it was like finding an old friend, that I had looked for him, and looked for him, and looked for him, and now suddenly he was revealed to me.

But understand that it begins with men being dead in their sin. They're dead. And the example of Lazarus is his body's decaying. They're rotting, they smell. And God has to come back and give that body life before it can walk out of the grave.

That's the sequence of salvation. Dead men made alive by the Holy Spirit. Jesus talks about this all the time when he says, give them ears to hear. Who you has ears to hear, let him hear. He's talking to people that hear, because what?

God has given them ears to hear. Men in themselves have no ability to come to God, except God draw them first. Jesus says that a number of times, a number of different ways also.

Okay, and one thing that, before I go on to the second question, I think this is perfect proof actually of the doctrine of unconditional election. The concept that there are a specific number of people that God, before the foundation of the world, chose to elect and chose to save, chose to give the gift of regeneration to, and chose to sanctify.

And it's amazing, it's, I'm not even going to bring in liberals into the equation, but Bible-believing fundamentalists and evangelicals that believe strongly in the inerrancy of scripture will say, you have this God that is so hateful.

And it really, in fact, Dave Hunt, the late Dave Hunt, wrote a book called What Love Is This?, which was meant, I believe, in a mocking fashion toward Calvinists, because we believe that God only loves a portion of humanity in a parental and marital fashion.

There are even different disagreements amongst Calvinists about the universal love of God towards all of humanity, and how that love is really put into place, if you will, or what it really means. But we all agree that he does not love every human in a parental or spousal way, as he does his church, as he does his elect.

And so therefore, when people say that, and they also say that God is unfair in our system of salvation, because God has to choose us. It's not up to us. So I bring them back to what Ginny has built into her question, the fact that, well, how is your understanding of God's salvation of sinners any more fair, and a human understanding of fairness, if there have been millions of people that never even had the opportunity to hear the gospel?

Obviously, God did not love those people as a parent or a spouse. Am I correct?

Yeah, and from the beginning, God called out a people, you go back to Abraham, and look at it. But there's something else here that's real important is, when you come to Christ, and when you know you're saved, when you've got salvation, one of the things you ought to do, and I say this a lot to believers, because Calvinists particularly tend to get off this track, say you ought to thank God every day for the fact that he called you out.

Because that's a gracious gift that you did not deserve. If you understand that, then you come to a view of your salvation that says, wow, God, why'd you choose me?

I mean, I'm a sinner, and I know it. Even the fact that we were born in America, in a place where we could have heard the gospel preached is a grace.

Is a grace, yes. And even being born in America, you could be born in America without having parents that take care of you. You could have been given up for adoption or left on a doorstep. You could have parents that are wicked, evil people, Satanists.

And being born in a family that loves God and nurtures their children in the faith is even an additional thing, where you have children today being born in Muslim homes, where coming to faith would mean possibly their execution.

You know, also though, Chris, I would say,.

When it comes down to the matter of the fairness of God, I think this is a good time to mention that the Apostle Paul knew exactly how our minds worked in Romans 9. He knew that we would get down to the point of questioning the fairness of God.

And his answer to that was simply, who are you,.

Old man, to answer back to God? Yes, how can God find fault for who can resist as well? If your understanding of Romans 9 doesn't automatically have that reaction from the critic, then you have a wrong interpretation of Romans 9.

Exactly. And I would also say to anybody who would be asking the question about the heathen in the foreign lands who've never heard the gospel, if you're that burden for them, go over and preach.

The gospel. Right. That's a good point. And the other thing I wanted to clarify from your statement or your story about the individual who had a false religion, who finally, when he came to Christ, how did you phrase it?

Sun Tzu. He said he was like meeting a friend that I was looking for that I knew.

Right. And we have to clarify that because there is a phenomenon called pluralism. Okay. There are Christians, including Billy Graham, who sadly believes that you do not need explicitly to have faith in Christ to be saved.

He has a very well-known conversation with Robert Shuler that anybody can go to YouTube and watch and listen to, where Billy Graham discusses how he believes that Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists and atheists are going to be saved not because they explicitly have faith in Christ, but they are coming to Christ through the light that they have been given.

And you have all kinds of Christians or professing Christians making claims like this because they don't have an answer. They realize that their scenario or their rhetoric or the rhetoric of Arminians that the Calvinist God is unfair in the way he saves men, some Arminians or non-Calvinists recognize that the commonly held system of Arminianism is also not quite fair because they say, well, they realize, yeah, there are people who never even heard the gospel.

So then in order to defend in their minds the love of God, they develop a false understanding of salvation that God could not possibly hold these people accountable who have not ever heard the gospel.

But that is not true. The acceptance of the gospel and the acceptance of the penalty of sin being paid for by Christ alone on Calvary's cross is a requirement of one entering into the kingdom of God, isn't it?

Well, what they're saying there.

Basically is the penalty for sin is not death, that you don't get the just penalty. And that's one of the things that's critical in our understanding is that God's justice has to be satisfied. We are sinners, we're separated from him and his justice has to be satisfied, either by us eternally perishing in hell or by Christ's atonement for us.

And for some reason, they would say that Christ's death will benefit those that never even claim to love or know him. But obviously that cannot be defended biblically. And I was going to say something that flew out of my head.

Okay, that's okay. Let's get to a second question.

Yes, we have Jenny.

There's more questions from there.

I'm reading Jenny's second question. When speaking to atheists, they claim to be neutral because they self-define atheism with automatically being neutral, though I refute that definition. But then when asking questions about the existence and necessity of God, they want me to prove it without a Bible.

I tell them that it is impossible to answer their questions without the Bible. And I also tell them that it shows that they lack neutrality when they demand that I don't use a Bible. I also tell them that they can't set the terms on how they want me to answer their questions.

What is the best course of action? That's a very, very good question.

Okay, that's a very good question. Yeah, let's talk about that for a second. Atheism in itself is a contradiction. Because when a person says definitively, there is no God, he's claiming omniscience. And that's a claim that a human being can't make.

So just to start off, the presupposition is wrong. You can't say there is no God because you can't know that because you're not omniscient. Therefore, atheism in itself is inconsistent. It's inconsistent for another reason.

It wants relativism and it wants absolutes. The absolute is there is no God. It wants relativism when it comes to morality. That's also a complete contradiction. So I tell atheists, the first thing I tell them is, because of those two factors, you best you can be as an agnostic.

You can't be an atheist. It's inconsistent with logic. It's inconsistent with a consistent worldview.

In fact, it would be nonsensical to, as a Christian, believe that there is a God that exists that requires our faith in Christ and his shed blood on Calvary and his resurrection for us to receive eternal life.

It would be foolish for us to believe that that God exists without his providing for us an inerrant, infallible source, meaning the scriptures, where we can discover these things. Because the book of Romans in chapter one says that the only thing that nature does for man is that it leaves him without an excuse.

But man needs more than the ordinary revelation of the earth, the trees, the birds, the animals, and the mountains, and so on. That just proves that God exists, but we need the special revelation of the scriptures to know what the gospel is, correct?

Yeah, let me give another illustration. I know a missionary by the name of Bruce Olson, back in the 50s, walked in the jungles of Columbia and lived with a people called the Motileon Indians for a while.

They were Italian Indians?

No, that was the name. But he lived with them for a while, and he was looking for an opportunity to share the gospel, but just in the culture, he just couldn't find an opportunity. And then one day, he was out walking with them in the jungle.

They were going to another tribe to do some trading, and he noticed one of the Indians kept stopping and looking in little holes in the ground and calling into the hole. And he asked him, what are you doing?

He said, well, I'm looking for the spirit. And there was the opportunity, okay? So all men seek to know, but because they're dead in their sin, they can't find God. They're dead.

And well, thanks, Jenny, for your excellent questions, and you have also won a free copy of the book we're discussing today, Answers for the Hope That Is in You, Direct Simple Christian Answers to the World's Hard Questions by our guest, Charlie Liebert.

We're going to a break right now, and if anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question for our guest, Dr. Charlie, not Dr. Charlie Liebert, but Charlie Liebert. Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

One excellent thing about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is by being a guest on this program, you very frequently will receive an automatic doctorate, whether you've earned one or not. But if you have a question for us, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Don't go away, God willing, we will be right back after these messages with Dr. Charlie Liebert.

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