Common Objections to Calvinism Pt2

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welcome back to coffee with a Calvinist this program is dedicated to helping you better understand the Word of God and the doctrines of grace the Bible tells us do your best to present yourself to God as one approved a worker who is no need to be ashamed rightly handling the word of truth get your Bible and coffee ready and prepare to study along here's your host with today's lesson pastor Keith Foskey welcome back to coffee with a Calvinist my name is Keith Foskey and I am a Calvinist today is August the 18th 2020 and if you're following along in our daily Bible reading you can go to Acts chapter 19 and read along today and if you're interested in reading along with us daily you can go to sgfcjax.org that's our website for Sovereign Grace Family Church and you can download a copy of our daily Bible reading list and read along with us now today is part two of our common objections to Calvinism yesterday we looked at the objection of evangelism some people say that Calvinism kills evangelism and that was the subject of yesterday's show but today we're going to be looking at another objection very common objection to Calvinism and that is the objection of free will some people believe that if you believe in Calvinism then you believe that all men are robots and I'm going to do something today that I have not ever done before I'm actually going to let you listen to another person make this argument and I want to introduce to you Dr.
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J Vernon McGee if you've never heard of Dr.
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J Vernon McGee he's been on the radio forever he's gone on to be with the Lord now but he has through the Bible with J Vernon McGee very famous very long-standing ministry and I'm going to disagree with something that Dr.
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McGee says today but I want to preface this by saying I appreciate the ministry of J Vernon McGee this is not in any way an attempt to besmirch him or his ministry this is one of those times when a brother in Christ I disagree with him and I want you to hear what he has to say because I want to be able to interact with it and rather than me simply saying this is what he said I want you to hear it from his mouth this is a recording from his radio program I'm going to play a portion I'm going to interact with it and it's longer than I can let you listen to the whole thing simply for the sake of time but I'm going to let you listen to as much as I can and I'm going to interact with as much as I can and when I get to the point where I feel like I've said enough I will close the show out here's the thing I need from you today as a listener is I need your patience because this is the first time I've ever done anything like this on the program I'm working with a little bit of a new technology here so I'm going to need a little bit of grace as I go through this and I hope that you will give me that grace as I as I work with this so I'm going to start by letting Dr.
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McGee's announcer introduce him and he's going to read the question from the listener and we're going to listen to Dr.
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McGee's response and as I said I am going to pause at times and give you my thoughts on what he's saying and provide you the Calvinist response again I'm a Calvinist Dr.
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McGee was not a Calvinist I believe we're both Christians and this is my opportunity to respond to him and this and I don't know how long how old this particular radio program is this could be several decades old but but I want you to listen to it and and you'll get what I'm talking about.
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The scriptural view of the doctrine of election and free will has been debated since the Reformation.
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Many of these questions and thoughts have been considered by this young lady in Glen Birney Maryland.
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She says that she has come to the conclusion that some are elected to heaven and some to hell.
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She believes that God knows all things from the beginning to the end so he would know who would be saved and who would not.
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She continues by saying that God allows the multitudes to continue on blindly through life because they won't accept God unless he opens their eyes.
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She asks would you please tell me if I'm right or wrong if I'm wrong can you please correct my thinking.
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All right before we even listen to Dr.
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McGee I want to make a point whoever this lady is she's obviously trying to articulate the reform position one of the things that I would probably disagree with on her articulation is that God elects some for heaven and some for hell that's often described as double predestination and sometimes even more the technical term is equal ultimacy that God does the same work in predestining someone to heaven as he does in the act of reprobation or passing over someone who is going to hell and I do not believe both of those are the same thing I do believe that God puts out a particular effort and grace in saving a soul and it's not the same as allowing someone to continue in the sin that they desire and want to be in and so even her question there's a little bit of issue with it but for the sake of this I'm going to let Dr.
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McGee answer but I just wanted to point out that it's obvious that she has had some kind of reformed or Calvinistic influence and that's what's influencing her question so here's Dr.
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McGee well may I say to you I not only think you're wrong but I think that type of thinking is very dangerous if I believed what you believe I would never attempt to teach the Word of God again I'd never try to win anybody to Christ because there'd be no need of it now if you feel that God all he's done has created a bunch of zombies and that they're gonna move at his command and at his command he's gonna send most of them to hell and may I say you have a rightful terrible view of God fact well right now before I even let him go further it's obvious and this is part of the reason why I wanted you to hear this today it's obvious that Dr.
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McGee is coming at this from the position that Calvinism this view of predestination is not only wrong but is to him repugnant and it's interesting because there's not a lot of grace coming from him as far as understanding that in the history of the Protestant Church many many many godly men have held to this position George Whitfield Jonathan Edwards and during his time during J.
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Bernard McGee's time there would have been men like R.C.
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Sproul and John MacArthur and so and many many others James Montgomery Boyce so to first of all I just want to say I think I think that his his immediate response saying this is this makes God evil and I think that's a little heavy-handed on his part again I love the man I'm not trying to besmirch him I just think that's one thing to consider is he obviously thinks that this position is very repugnant but I'm gonna let him continue the matter is the heathen that think of him in such horrible terms as you see in some of the images that they make the god of war for instance out in the Waiyan Island that's as frightful looking face that I've ever seen that's their God well I would say that your God isn't any better looking than that one now let me approach this from an altogether different viewpoint than you have let's move back and think of an infinite God for just a moment this infinite God can do anything in the world that he wants to do he is free to act but okay real quick Dr.
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McGee is about to explain essentially that because God is infinite he has the power to allow men to have an absolute free will but in the midst of explaining this I want you to listen closely because he's actually going to somewhat repudiate his own argument here in just a moment this takes a minute so encourage you to keep listening and pay attention to what he's saying and listen for the inconsistencies because often this is the case that we'll hear with our from our Arminian brothers and sisters is we'll hear inconsistency and that's what you're about to hear he is actually free to act only in that area in which he absolutely believes now we know something about him he's a holy God I'm not quite sure I understood what he meant when he says God is only free to act in the area that he believes I'm not sure he used the right word there but basically what he I think that he's trying to say is God God is free to act where he wants to act but that he lets men act on their own behalf and he doesn't influence them but just in case that was confusing he's a just God he's a righteous God he's a God of love now if you feel like that God is doing the thing that you're doing then God is not just at all he's not righteous fact of the matter is I have my doubts whether he's infinite or not may I say to you we have a God that is so great so wonderful so far above our thinking that our thought patterns don't even enter into his thinking he told it says in Isaiah he says my thoughts are not your thoughts and my ways are not your way God's thoughts and ways are different than yours now let me give you what now he says that I want I hate to keep interrupting but he says that you know God's thoughts are higher than ours God's ways are higher in our ways but what he's trying to do is trying to bring God down to a level that we that that that he would allow for free will and ultimately what he's saying is that yes God's thoughts are better higher than ours and there and he's greater than we are but ultimately he still got to behave in a way that that seems right to us and I think again that's a contradiction but we'll continue maybe a new thought to you I don't know our God is so infinite that he can create creatures and give them a free will and in the area of their free will why he can accomplish his purpose and in that area of their free will it is free will they're not zombie when he created Adam and Eve they were given absolute freedom in the Garden of Eden they could do what they wanted to do and they did it by the way may I say to you that today the same thing is true of mankind that he's able to make a decision and still if that decision is contrary to the will of God and many men are making the decision as you say against God they do not disturb his plan or purpose because in that area an infinite God is able to make creatures with a free will and they can do what they want to do and it won't interfere with his purpose for instance I have to stop right there and just and jump in he made a few points he talked about Adam and Eve and the fact that they had a free will and he's equating the will that Adam and Eve expressed with the will of their posterity the problem with that is what we see is while Adam and Eve did have a certain freedom in the garden because they were not bound by sin they did not have a sin nature until of course after they sinned but the Bible says that we being sons and daughters of Adam are not born free like Adam and Eve but we are born with a sin nature this is why the Bible says that when Jesus was talking about people that could come to him he said no one can come to me unless he's drawn by the Father he says no one can come to me unless it's granted to him by the Father Paul says in Romans chapter 8 that that no one can that no one can do the law of God no one because of because they are bound in sin it's this is an important concept for us to to remember that we are sinners by nature in that passage in Romans 8 is Romans 8 7 it says for the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile toward God it does not submit to God's law indeed it cannot those who are in the flesh cannot please God and what does it mean to be in the flesh it means to be a person who is born a son or daughter of a son and daughter of Adam we are we are born with a sin nature we are born with an Adamic nature we call it and so when we when when dr.
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McGee equates Adam and Eve with the rest of their posterity he's making a fundamental error there regarding the nature of the will but also is making a fundamental error in regard to the nature of God's knowledge he seems to be indicating that in some way it was it was it was up for grabs whether or not sin was going to come into the world whether you know and that's something we have to consider did God not know from all eternity that Adam and Eve would sin and I believe we have to say that he did because the Bible says Jesus is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world that God had planned redemption and so when we look at the the concept of the fall while we do not believe that God forced Adam and Eve to sin we do believe that this is part of the divine decree that this would happen this way because God had determined that it would be so and so when we consider that all things happen by the divine decree because God is working out all things according to his purpose and therefore this doesn't mean that men are robots but what it does mean is that that while we have a certain freedom our freedom is always limited by God's freedom and that's what dr.
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McGee seems to be disagreeing with her he's basically saying God's freedom is limited by our freedom and it's the opposite is true like dr.
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R.C.
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Sproul said dr.
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R.C.
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Sproul made this point he said I am free but God is more free and when my freedom runs into God's freedom I lose that is absolutely has to be understood so and dr.
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McGee uses the phrase zombies you were just zombies that's not the case we are dead in trespasses and sins but we are active agents working out our own desires the problem is our desires are sinful because we are born in sin David said in sin did my mother conceive me I am born in sin I grow in sin the Bible says I'm dead in my trespasses and sins and that I am by nature a child of wrath until such time as God chooses to grant me the gift of regeneration and we're really running low on time here we'll let dr.
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McGee speak for a few more minutes I'm interact a little bit more but try to close up about 20 minutes in but if you're interested in going and listening to the rest of what he has to say you can look this up this is available online this is dr.
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J.
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Verner McGee through the Bible and I'll see if I can't post a link below if you want to hear what he has to say but I'm gonna play a little bit more so I can interact with it just so you can hear more of what he's trying to say little man on this planet today even with his free will do you think that he can upset Almighty God of course not do you think that man has a free will he certainly does see even right there he's saying he's saying we can't upset the will of God but we have a free will and so the question that I would ask if I were sitting across from dr.
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McGee I would say so so what you're saying is I can do anything I want to do and because I have a free will and and yet I cannot thwart the will of God how do those two things line up and as I said I would say the answer that question would be because God's will is is ultimate and my will is not ultimate and my choices are not ultimate and so I have to understand that God's will is actually what's working out everything this is why he can say that he causes all things to work together for the good of those who love him are called according to his purpose because his will is ultimate and someone might say well you know God's only sovereign over the big things he's not really sovereign over little things but the problem with that is that there's really no little things because everything every little thing adds up to a big thing it's like again referencing dr.
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Sproul talks about the shoe of the horse you know it's one shoe can cause one horse to fall one horse can cause one battle to be lost one battle can be the the war and the war can be a nation fall and therefore one nail in one horseshoe that caused one horseshoe to fall that called one horse to fall that caused one battle to be lost and so is God sovereign over the battle or is God sovereign over the nail in the horseshoe well the answer is he's sovereign over everything and when we start limiting his sovereignty in some way to try to protect God from the truth of who he is and try to protect his dignity and character I think that's the motivation behind this because he earlier said you know God's would be an ugly God if he did the things you're saying no he's a sovereign God and he does as he pleases but we'll continue and there'll be no interference on the part of God at all and you say that they can't move unless the Holy Spirit moves well may I say to you that there must come into the heart of man and this is something that moves in the area of free will now is a conviction some men have a conviction some don't I sat next to a young man when I was in seminary that young man when we have an outstanding missionary dr.
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Lambie I think of the Sudan interior mission or it could be an African mission that's been a long time ago he spoke and he so moved all of us he moved all of us to tear that young man next to me had a conviction he ought to go as a missionary I had no conviction like that at all I don't tell me that God was pushing into the mission field he wasn't pushing me into the mission field for the very simple reason I just happen to know I exercise my free will I've got a free will and so have you got a free will now okay this is where I'm gonna I'm gonna have to start drawing to a close because I do I was hoping I would get this far and I have when when dr.
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McGee talks about this young man who had this conviction to go to the mission field and dr.
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McGee said I didn't have that conviction and because I exercise my free will this is a contradiction in terms because as dr.
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McGee must understand conviction is not something that is wrought from within the flesh or the mind it's wrought within the spirit by the Holy Spirit of God so I would say yes it is the Holy Spirit of God who urged that young man to the mission field in the same way that it was the Spirit of God who must have urged dr.
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McGee to go into broadcasting and Bible teaching and all the things that he did so to say no it wasn't a conviction is from the free will no conviction is of the Holy Spirit and this is where I think that the confusion really comes in because we begin to apply to ourselves our free will something that belongs to the Spirit of God conviction is of the Spirit of God it's he who comes and convicts the world of sin it's he who convicts the world of righteousness he is the one who I mean when I talk about ministry when I when I talk about becoming a pastor I tell my story you know I try to always use this language God called me into ministry God God gave me the gifts necessary to be a preacher of his word now it was recognized by the church the church ordained me because the church has the role of recognizing that gift but it's it's God by the Holy Spirit who who urged me to do that therefore I would say I am who I am by the power of God not by my free will my free sinful will did not cause me to abandon my life for Christ my sinful free will I wanted to be anything but a preacher I wanted to be a karate teacher I wanted to be a magician I had all these these things that I wanted to do I never wanted to preach God's Word but God changed my heart and that conviction is from the Holy Spirit of God now again I give dr.
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McGee so much credit and I hope that my words have not been in any way come across as hurtful or argumentative toward him as a person love him and appreciate him as a brother and I still have his commentaries on my shelf and I you know I reference him sometimes in my preaching but when it comes to this issue I think he was wrong I think what he's saying is wrong and I hope that this method of interacting with someone has been useful for you today because this will hopefully help you to listen and understand not how to argue necessarily but but how to stand for the truth and listen to the arguments of other people and interact with what they're saying so I hope this and again I really I have to give credit where credit is due dr.
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White has done this for years on the dividing line and this is you know my feeble attempt to to follow in his footsteps and sort of do what he he has done and has taught so I hope that tonight or today's lesson rather has been an encouragement to you I am going to end now again if you want to listen to dr.
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McGee and the rest of it you you're free to do so and I would encourage you to listen to it and if you have any questions please send them to me thank you for listening today to coffee with a Calvinist my name is Keith Foskey and I've been your Calvinist may God bless you thank you for joining in for today's episode of coffee with a Calvinist keep in mind we have a new lesson available every weekday morning at 630 a.m.