October 12, 2022 Show with April Chapman on “Being Black, Female, Conservative & Christian: A 21st Century Survival Guide”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 12th day of October 2022.

I am thrilled to have as a first time ever guest today April Chapman, who is host of the

Standard of Truth podcast, and we are going to be addressing the theme being black, female, conservative, and Christian, a 21st century survival guide.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, April Chapman.

Hi, Chris, how are you? Thank you so much for having me. Oh, I am thrilled to have you. And tell our listeners something about the

Standard of Truth podcast. Well, the Standard of Truth podcast was kind of birthed out of my musings from being on social media and being frustrated at seeing the trajectory that our culture was going.

And, you know, being a relatively young to middle -aged wife, homeschooling mom, and Bible -believing

Christian, I just felt as if there needed to be a space for me to share my voice on things going on in the culture, things going on, you know, socially, but I wanted to do it from a distinctively

Christian worldview and a biblical perspective. And so I started the show earlier this year after getting a nudge from my husband, and the

Lord has been really, really gracious to me in that I just crossed 8 ,000 subscribers after launching the show

January 1 of 2022. So to God be the glory.

I'm grateful, you know, to have the platform, but it doesn't come without, you know, some drawbacks, because a lot of the things that I say do, you know, this post -modern culture that we're in, and even a lot of Bible -believers,

I do tend to challenge their worldview and their thought process as we're kind of thinking as they happen, you know, in the fullness of time, things that are going on in the culture.

So that's basically the show in a nutshell. We discuss politics, theology, culture, education, entrepreneurship.

We discuss a myriad of issues, but we do so from a Christian perspective, and I named the show

The Standard of Truth because I'm starting from the biblical worldview, and if the

Bible is not our standard of authority, then what do we have? Amen.

Well, congratulations also on the launching of and the popularity of The Standard of Truth podcast, and if anybody wants to start listening to that podcast, the website is thestandardoftruthpodcast .com.

Very easy to remember, thestandardoftruthpodcast .com. We have a tradition here,

April, on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, whenever we have a first -time guest, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony that would include the kind of religious atmosphere in which they were raised, if any, and what kind of providential circumstances our sovereign

Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them, and I'd love to hear your story.

Absolutely. Well, I like to refer to myself as a church baby, meaning I was born into a religious household, nominal, you know, black

Christian household. We went to church every single day of the week, and so all I knew was church, and having some sort of reference to God and religious things was second nature for me.

However, I was not a believer, meaning I affirmed and gave mental assent to the fact that Jesus was the

Son of God and that he died on the cross for sin, but I never made the connection between what the implications of that and what that meant for me as an individual that was a sinner.

I have no early memories of ever hearing a clear gospel message as a child, and I know my mother, if she's listening, she's going to struggle to understand how that could be so, but I grew up in a very charismatic, you know,

I call it, it was like a Baptist gospel because it was a

Baptist church in name, but I remember early on in the 90s,

I'm in my mid -40s, there was a heavy, it just came out of nowhere, this huge charismatic influence to where there were all of these manifestations and new things that I didn't remember seeing as a child.

So there was like this new thing that was going on, and all I remember is not wanting to have anything to do with it.

I was like, this is scary, I don't want people pushing on my head, throwing me on the ground, I don't like this.

So I mentally checked out of church, even though I continued in high school,

I found my way in a boarding school away from home in Richmond, Virginia on scholarship, and then

I found myself in an Episcopal context. So now, take this, you know, girl from the hood at a little

Baptist -Pentecostal hybrid church, I don't know what you call that, to an

Episcopal high school where it's very conservative, very, you know, book of common prayer, and I didn't want to have any parts of that either.

I was like, I don't like this high church stuff, but I still, if you had asked me, was

I a Christian, I would answer in the affirmative, absolutely. Fast forward,

I meet my husband, we get married, and, you know, you start a family, well, you know, what good quote -unquote

Christian girl has children and you don't take your kids to church, right? Like, who does that?

So naturally, I tell my husband, well, you know, we're parents now, we gotta go to church, and he's just like, okay, that's great.

So me, you know, taking the lead in that area, started attending church, and my husband, who

I honestly believe the Lord was sovereignly working in his life, was able to discern like, where do we see any of this stuff happening in the

Bible? And I was like, oh, you didn't grow up in church, so this is how it's done.

Like, this is the real deal. And he was like, no...

And I'm like, this is it. Like, I don't, I've never seen any of this in the pages of Scripture, but okay, if you say so.

And then Facebook comes out, 2008, and I'm still on MySpace alone, because everyone has left

MySpace and they're on Facebook, so I joined Facebook, and I started connecting with friends from my childhood, college, and high school, and then with a guy who was trying to take a woman pastor.

And I was like, oh, that's not true! I know no woman pastor! And then he tried to convince me that God was sovereign over salvation, and that God has elected a people unto

Himself before the foundations of the world. I was like, yeah, you're crazy. And so I reached out to a mutual friend, this guy that I'm arguing with,

I mean, we're going at it. Keyboard wars, I'm going in. And I reached out to my childhood friend, like, who is this guy?

I can't stand him, he's preaching all this false doctrine and stuff, and he's like, listen, no, what he was saying is biblical.

I was like, I don't believe it. And so what those arguments did, it drew, it drove me to the pages of Scripture, and one day

I read Ephesians, and now I'm sitting there, I can't unsee what

I just saw. I was like, this clearly does say, like, I don't know much about context, but the

Lord gave me a moment of sentience to where those words on that page just jumped out at me, and I was like, you know what?

I am dead in my sin. I've never had any, you know, when you sin, you're like, oh,

God forgive me, but I've never had any sorrow over my sin. I lived my life for myself, doing what

I want, put a little sprinkle of Jesus on top every now and again when it was convenient or when I was in trouble, or if I just really felt like, you know,

I really need some spiritual guidance. But there was no rooting, grounding, there was no relationship with God.

My heart was not changed. I was literally dead in sin, just like Ephesians 2.

And I can't tell you the exact day. All I know is, when I saw that text, and I'm trying to reconcile what this guy on Facebook is telling me against what

I'm reading in Scripture, I was just like, I can't stand this dude. What he's saying is correct.

I was like, he's not lying. He's telling the truth. And so it was just this season in my life where now

I'm questioning everything that I was taught about what it meant to be a Christian, what it meant to be saved, who is

God, who is Jesus, what is the Church. And it's just driving me to the Scriptures. And all

I know is I went from hating God and hating church people and not really wanting to have anything to do with them and only doing it as a religion.

And then one day, all of a sudden, I'm loving God, I'm loving His words, I am abandoning every false teaching and false doctrine that I once held in Scripture without even thinking twice about it.

Like, I wasn't fighting against the Scriptures. Something supernaturally happened to me, which is, you know, what

John 3 describes as the new birth. And my husband noticed the change, and it was like, everybody was just like, okay, that is not the same girl.

And that's it. That's just how the Lord drew me to Himself. He took a Facebook beef with someone that I absolutely just despise, used it for His glory to draw me to the text of Scripture to where I could no longer argue and say that these things were not so.

Well, praise God. By the way, just out of curiosity, this person who was annoying the living daylights out of you, that you eventually discovered to be speaking truth, was it just the truth that you did not yet understand and embrace that was bothering you, or was he adding to the truth things that were unnecessarily offensive to you?

Because sometimes we Christians, perhaps even especially cage -stage Calvinists, which many of us who are

Reformed at one time, when we first discovered the truths of the doctrines of grace, we can behave in a way that is inappropriate.

We can be too much filled with rage and anger at falsehood and use ad hominems too many times.

Was he saying or doing anything other than speaking the truth that was adding to the offense?

He was just being him. There was a little arrogance there, but I can argue you down.

I was like, okay, you're being a jerk, I can be a jerk too. Now mind you, I was loud and wrong, right?

But honestly what he was doing, he was just dismantling a lot of deeply held doctrines.

He was talking about male headship, women can't be pastors, speaking in tongues have to be legitimate languages, and I was like, wait, what?

What are you talking about? That's not true. He was just core

Christian doctrines, Christianity 101, things that I should have known having been raised and being a church pew baby,

I should have known these things, but I just didn't. I was steeped in a lot of religious, it was

Christian -ese, but it really was low on doctrines. I knew that the

Trinity was a thing, but I could not articulate that, so we weren't arguing about the Trinity or anything like that, it was a lot of charismatic false doctrines like being slain in the spirit, speaking in tongues, female preachers tithing, that really messed me up.

When he told me, I was like, now wait a minute, you're going too far now. It was just beautiful things that were just, it was just breaking me down, and I couldn't,

I was like, this is not true, because I know that the Bible teaches these things, but I couldn't defend it,

I couldn't, I could not support my position biblically, but those arguments, like I said, it drove me to scripture.

I don't even, he may have posted Ephesians 2, I really can't remember, but when I read that, all of a sudden that scripture had new meaning to me.

It wasn't the first time I had, remember, I went to an Episcopal high school, and I remember in my modern

European history class, we were studying the Reformation, and ironically,

I had to argue for the Presbyterian position. And so, it wasn't new to me, but I just didn't believe it, and I think

I kind of glossed over it, like, yeah, it says that, but I don't think it, but I actually won the debate, but I didn't believe anything that I was debating or arguing for.

You know, the affirmative position that I had taken, I was given the, I was supposed to be defending John Calvin and Presbyterianism, I didn't believe any of that stuff, and I was trying to defend it through the scriptures, and this was in high school.

Fast forward to, you know, late 2000s, this is around 2013 or 14 -ish, and he's telling me these things, and I'm like, that's not true.

Like, I just was fighting, my flesh was fighting against the clear teaching of scripture, but I'm so grateful for it, because the

Lord used it, he used that adversity and that controversy and the contention to drive me to the scriptures to verify it for myself, and then when

I couldn't, it did a work in my heart. Was that Episcopal parochial school a conservative school?

Because it's amazing that they would have you do that kind of an exercise where you were told that you had to defend a historic position of Christianity like Calvinism.

It's pretty wonderful that they would have you do that.

It's interesting that you ask that, because back then, looking at it now,

I would say it's quite liberal. Even back then, it had liberal leanings, but I wouldn't have called it a staunch conservative school at all.

I mean, it was very prestigious, and it was a vigorous process to get in.

I got in on scholarship. I think I was actually an affirmative action enrollee, because I was in a special program.

I mean, I still had to compete academically, and I had to score well on the test, but it helped that I was highly melanated.

That part helped. I was a minority recruit.

I was like one of three black girls there. But it's pretty liberal now.

I mean, it's really liberal now. I think they have their parish priest as a woman who might be a lesbian.

It's heavy on feminism, girl power, you can do what you want. It's very liberal now.

I don't remember being indoctrinated with those types of messages then, but I do remember because it's an all -girls school, we were taught a lot of female empowerment, heavy on STEM.

It's an amazing school, and I want to disparage the school, but I would never send my daughters there, no.

Now, when this antagonist that you mentioned earlier was correcting you much to your dismay originally on key issues of Christian life and practice and belief, was he a theologically

Reformed Christian? Is that where you discovered the doctrines of grace? Yes, I think he would definitely, especially back then, he would identify and hold to the doctrines of grace.

Now, I can't say what he's affirming, but it's because he's kind of gone off the deep end.

But back then, yes, he would absolutely identify the Calvinist Reformed doctrines of grace, and I had never heard of the term doctrines of grace or anything like that.

I had just had issues with Calvinism, because I couldn't reconcile, you know, it's my free will, you know,

I couldn't, I just struggled with that. But it wasn't until something happened in my heart that I could say,

I would not, anyone who knows me before Christ would know that, you know, being this

Bible -thumping, homeschooling mom, submissive wife, that's not

April. No one in a million years, no one even thought that I'd get married and have kids.

You know, everybody thought I was gonna, you know, do great things and have this illustrious career.

I never wanted to be married, never wanted to have children, and so, and then definitely

I was a feminist, liberal, I was raised a Democrat, I just,

I had no, only the Lord does something, because it's just not who

I was. I wasn't raised, maybe I was raised a social conservative, but that's maybe, you know, yeah, socially, in terms of just being a good person, good church girl,

Christian girls don't do X, I was raised like that, but it's, you know, very maternalistic, you know, not a lot of male headship, definitely nowhere in my upbringing do

I ever remember affirming God's sovereignty being, you know, juxtaposed with man's responsibility and those holding an equal attention, no, not at all.

So, I know from our conversations before the program began, that eventually you were initially a member of the church where my old friend

Roger Skeppel is the pastor, I've had Roger on this program quite a while ago,

I'd love to have him back on the program, but back in the days when I was broadcasting out of Long Island, New York on WNYG 1440

AM radio, I had Roger on the program along with all of the contributors to the book

Glory Road, which was a book featuring black

Christians who discovered and embraced the doctrines of sovereign grace. As we were saying also off air before the program, it is tragic that quite a number of those authors have become woke, and I'm hoping that they regain their sanity and abandon that very dangerous ideology, but was

Roger's congregation the first Reformed church that you and your husband attended? Yes.

So, when the Lord saved me, our church journey was rather interesting because we knew that the churches we were in were not where we were supposed to be, but we didn't have anyone to say, hey, go here or do this or avoid that.

So we ended up in a seeker -friendly church that we picked because we were like, okay, well it's not this crazy charismatic stuff going on, so maybe this is where we're supposed to be, but it didn't take long.

The Lord was really working in my heart and in my husband's heart for us to recognize. We were like, we didn't know what these terms were, like seeker -sensitive.

We were just like, this is more like a motivational pep rally.

We don't think this is Biblical Christianity, so we didn't stay there very long. Then we ended up in another church that would probably fall in line,

I would call it like a hybrid of the Stone -Campbell movement. It was the

Christian churches. They weren't Church of Christ. They were kind of maybe like an offshoot of that. We felt relatively safe there for a little bit until we started to notice that the pastor seemed to want to compromise and not really mention the word, you know.

Really? Because that's not something that's, well at least it used to be, not a prominent thing among those churches known as the

Restoration churches. Right. Because I'm very familiar with them. I have spent a lot of time with both the

Christian Church and Church of Christ ministers and members, and they were very, at one time anyway,

I haven't been in a congregation from that background in many years, but they were very quick to point out the sinfulness of mankind and the necessity to repent.

So this is kind of interesting, this development that you're telling me. Right, well that church was kind of undergoing their own

Reformation. You know, they went from being a very large, large congregation here to losing most of their membership to,

I mean, I hate to use the term, like white flight. It was just a huge change in the community.

So their congregation, they had this big facility, but it was very, very small faithful few that remained, and in an effort to kind of attract more people,

I noticed and I remember saying something, I was like, listen, that was a great sermon, but you should never feel like you can't use the word sin.

I was like, you say that word, sin, say it with me, and he was just like, yeah. But we stayed there for a little while until I was like, okay, this church is nice, but I was like,

I feel like I'm theologically starving. So we went online, and I cannot remember, but I think we found

Pastor Skeppel's church in, it may have been Nine Mark at the time, and I remember

I was like, okay, I am tired of this church hopping thing. So I said, I'm going to do a better job of betting.

So what my husband and I did, we sat and we listened to several of his sermons, and I was like, wow, okay, this is the real deal.

So I said, alright, first Sunday, the new year, can we go here? Robert was like, yes, we can go.

We get there, that first sermon, Skeppel preaches on the intertestamental period, like the 400 years where God is not speaking.

And I'm sitting there like, how do you preach exegetical sermons on a time period when

God's not saying anything, and we don't really have a text to appeal to? But it was brilliant the way he masterfully helped connect the

Old Testament to the New Testament, and how all of these things, God is not speaking, but he's working, and how

God literally had to sovereignly orchestrate so many things, such as the

Roman road, the crucifixion had to be a thing, you know, the Pharisee, the system, the synagogue system, all of these things had to be developed before the advent of our

Savior. And when I sat there and heard that man preach that, I was like, babe, can we stay here?

I think this is it. And I remember going up to Skeppel afterwards, and I said, now, you don't know me, and I've been stalking your sermons on purpose.

How did you preach a whole hour sermon on the intertestamental period? I was like, there's no text for that.

I was like, who does that? And he just laughed like, who is this crazy girl? Because I'm not a shy person,

I've never met a stranger, so I'll just walk up to you, and I will start the conversation like we grew up together.

So I'm talking to him like this, and he's just standing there looking at me like, this girl is so special, but I think

I like her. I think I like her. And so we kind of talked about it, and that was, so Berean, to answer the question,

I know I went all the way around Brooklyn, across town, that was our first church that affirmed the doctrines of grace, and, you know, had a

Calvinistic soteriology, and the Lord truly grew us there. When I tell you

Pastor Skepple has a true shepherd's heart, he personally shepherded and discipled our family.

There wasn't a question that we could not ask, a phone call that he ever did not take, just logistics.

At this point, we were so far away, and I served there faithfully.

We were there, but we ended up having to find a new church. And I love my new church. I do.

I absolutely adore. I can't even compare them. It's like, how do you compare your two favorite desserts?

Right? You really can't, because you're like, well, I love them both, right? But they just, they're different, but they're both amazing.

I can still call Skepple right now and say, hey, I got a question about this. What are your thoughts? And he will take our calls.

It's like, he is still a true shepherd, and we have such a great...

Well, praise God. We have to go to our first break right now. If anybody has a question for April Chapman that they'd like to ask, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

chrisarnson at gmail dot com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are on a similar or perhaps nearly identical journey that April went through, and you're not ready yet to bring your identity to attention publicly.

You don't want your pastors yet to know where you are theologically. You don't want your family to know, whatever the case is, and you'd rather remain anonymous.

I understand that. But if it's just a general question, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside of the good old

USA. Don't go away. We're going to be right back with April Chapman, right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Go to royaldiadem .com, royaldiadem .com and mention Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. I'm now back with April Chapman and she is the host of the podcast, the

Standard of Truth podcast, and if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence.

Before I go to any of our listener questions, just have a couple of questions of my own.

What has been the reaction from your family and others that you know when they have discovered that you have not only become a reformed

Christian, which although is a growing phenomenon in the black community, it's still even

I think a tiny, tinier minority than in the white community, it is still a minority today in the 21st century among white

Christians as well, but what has been the feedback that you've received?

Is there a lot of animosity? Well, I've always kind of been like the little redheaded stepchild.

I've just always been different. I've been always the one that if there was going to be a rule that didn't make sense but that the average person would be like, oh, you know, it doesn't make sense.

We're just going to comply. I've always been the one to be like, well, that doesn't make sense. I don't want to do that. I was that precocious, talkative kid that you know wasn't just sufficient.

I wasn't going to disrespect you, but I just needed to know, can you just explain why, right? So people, you know, when they found out, when

I embrace reformed theology, that was interesting.

Family didn't quite really understand it. They still love me, you know, but it was very difficult to have these theological discussions because I would, you know, challenge their presuppositions and say, well, let's just see what the scriptures have to say.

And oftentimes, once they got to the point where we were going to rip out, you know, whip out the scriptures, they really didn't want to take the conversation any further.

Then, you know, now it's weird, not weird, but the way the

Lord works when He changes you, at least for me, when He changed my heart, it changed my worldview about everything.

Like, there really wasn't a segment of my life where I was like, well, the Lord changed this, but this other stuff,

I'm still gonna... He literally reoriented my thinking about everything, including politics.

So, you know, I tell people I became a conservative because I became a

Christian. Like, I didn't see... I was compelled to embrace the conservative political position because of my theological worldview, and that was worse than being

Reformed. You know, I have, like, an entire side of my family that we just don't engage or speak because the mere fact that I just didn't want to be a

Democrat no more, and then I would just say it out loud, they didn't really like that, considering I grew up in an urban context.

I'm originally from Bronx, New York, right? So I check, like, if you want to talk about intersectionality, I check all the boxes, right?

You know, they can't say, you know, well, she grew up with the silver spoon in her mouth, so therefore, nope, they can't say that.

I grew up in the hood, so, you know, so you want to talk about oppression, if you want to call it that, been there, done that.

I'm female, you know, I am black. I went to government school, right?

So I've been in the public school system, and then I was blessed to go to private school, so I could even check that box, too, if they want to say, well, you just don't know or you've only been in this context.

That's not true. I had the best of both worlds there. Then, on top of that, I went to an

HBCU, a Historically Black College and University, right? So I checked that box, and it was all -female.

I went to an all -female boarding high school and all -female college. So there's my feminism box, like I can check that box.

I check all the boxes that if they have an argument to say, well, she's only like this because they can't say it, because I just don't,

I don't fit the narrative, right? So when I came out conservative and I started talking to my family members about it,

I didn't, it really wasn't about politics for me. I was like, this is because I'm a

Christian. The Scriptures compel me to hold this position. I don't understand, like,

I have a cousin that we were arguing in Facebook Messenger, because my

Facebook posts were so offensive to him, and I was embarrassing the family, and he just could not understand how

I could hold this way. And I'm like, wait a minute, and we're from the same family, but you're from the privileged side, because you went through private school, you know, you grew up in your nice little

Seventh -day Adventist family, and everything was kind of pristine. Two -parent household, y 'all over there, like,

I'm from the single mom house. They were from the two, they have no concept of a fatherless home, and I do.

So I was just like, how are you the depressed one? I was like, Mick, you, right, you were the corporate executive, right, you were busting through glass ceilings before it was, like, popular.

How is it that you can't understand why I embrace capitalism, and why is it that you don't understand how

I am poor school choice, knowing the kind of government school that I was subjected to based on the fact that this was the zip code that we lived in.

I was like, you got to choose where you wanted to go to school. You guys grew up in Long Island. I'm here in the Bronx.

So it really, I couldn't, it didn't make sense to me why someone who had the opposite upbringing than I did, who had everything that seemed like it was sunshine, rainbows, and unicorns, couldn't

I understand why I, as a Bible -believing Christian, would naturally embrace the conservative worldview.

I was just coming from the Scriptures. I said, I'm sorry, I cannot embrace baby murder.

There's nothing you can tell me to make that more palatable or acceptable, right?

And this is coming from a woman who, before Christ, I have blood on my hands,

I'm guilty of the sin of abortion. So you can't say I can't identify and don't understand, because guilty.

Been there, done that. It just, it was more, it was more difficult for me to come out as a political conservative than it was to embrace the doctrine of Christ and the doctrines of grace and the gospel.

But I was trying to explain to my family, I'm compelled to be this way because I am a

Christian. And if you're identifying as a Christian, aren't you supposed to be here too? Like, we should all be landing on the same square, but somehow we're not.

And it was just, I don't know. Now, how tenaciously, if at all, were you clinging to leftist ideology before you became a regenerate believer?

I would, well, I mean, I voted for Obama twice, and it's because he was black, right?

I did not, his policies weren't really that important.

It was all about the color. I was like, I'm sorry, we've got to put the black guy in there, so let's do it, right?

I was pro -choice. I felt that, and it was because before the Lord had saved me, it could have been the guilt of what

I had done as, you know, in college, and I was just like, well, you know, I had that choice, so you know, why not?

I wasn't thinking about it from, what does God's Word have to say? How do we bring

God's law to bear on this topic? It was all about, you know, well, if you're living reckless and being promiscuous, then you should be able to take care of that.

I was definitely a feminist, because I grew up in a single -mom household. I knew my father, but I have maybe one early memory of both of my parents sleeping in the same bed together, and I was probably like two, so it's a real foggy memory, right?

And they got divorced when I was four, and he was kind of in and out throughout the years, so all

I had ever seen modeled before me was, strong black woman, we make it happen, you know, the man, if he's around, that's nice, but it's really not necessary, because we've got this all under control, and I'm talking,

I'm like one, maybe a third or fourth generation. My mom was born out of wedlock, and then her mother was born in the confines of wedlock, but her father wasn't around, so you know, you've got from the 30s on to the present day,

I am the first, between my sister and myself, we're the first ones to be in a marriage with the same man, and all of our children have the same father.

Let's pick up right where you left off there, when we return from our midway break, we have to go to another break, unfortunately, but this is how we remain in existence, this is how we pay the bills.

This is the longer than normal break, folks, please be patient, in the middle of the show, it's always a little longer than normal, send in your questions to April Chapman, to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com,

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com, don't go away, we'll be right back. Hi, I'm Pete Hegseth, co -host of Fox and Friends Weekend.

Now, I don't have to tell you, but American education, it's in a freefall, crumbling under the weight of a century of damage inflicted upon America's academic system.

The answer? It's called classical Christian education, a form of K through 12 ed, that's very distinct from the type of education most

Americans have received, myself included. And that's why I'm so excited to have been invited by my friends at Long Island's Grace Christian Academy, to talk about this wonderful, growing movement, and new approach rediscovered to education.

It's at 7 p .m. October 15th at the Marriott Hotel and Conference Center in Melville, New York. I'll also be signing copies of my

New York Times best -selling book, Battle for the American Mind, for the first 50 guests, starting at 6 p .m.

Now, this is a fundraising event designed to raise money to help grow this type of education, at a time when it is so desperately needed.

So please come ready to give, and to learn about a way to stimulate academic revival in our great country.

You can purchase tickets for the event by visiting GCALI, G -C -A -L -I dot com, and following the link to the gala event.

I hope to see you there. And remember, folks, there's an update on that website, it's GCALI dot com forward slash invite now.

GCALI, that's G -C -A -L -I dot com forward slash invite, for the free registration.

And I am going to be master of ceremonies at this event, where Pete Hegseth is speaking as keynote speaker at the

Marriott Hotel and Conference Center in Melville. I hope to see you there this Saturday at 7 p .m.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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I'm Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the Dear Saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

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I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

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That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Aaron Sharpton's iron.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know

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Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has had a long -time partnership with our friends at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

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Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

Iron Sharpen's Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions.

While always defending the key doctrines of the Christian faith, I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

Chris up for just such a time. And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

Iron Sharpen's Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

Do you know what they all have in common? They all require training, assessments, and certifications.

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I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.

That's why Truth Love Parent exists. We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents

God called and created them to be. We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.

Please visit us at truthloveparent .com. Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus. We are rural and urban, and we are always about the message of Jesus.

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Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333. Or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org. Hello, my name is

Anthony Eugenio, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com

website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

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Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio show at any time, day or night.

Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show.

Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news. Subscribe to the

Iron Sharpens Iron radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com

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And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed Church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York.

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invidio, and thanks for listening. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the

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your very first stop for all your gift -giving needs, especially with Christmas coming up, and also to replenish your own library.

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Always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio when making a purchase.

Before I return to April Chapman, who is our guest today, I just have a couple of very important announcements to make.

Folks, if you love the show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, I'm urging you please go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com,

click support, then click click to donate now. You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.

If you prefer snail mail, sending in a physical check to a physical mailing address, there will also be a physical address that appears on your screen when you click support at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

If you want to advertise with us, we would love to help you launch an ad campaign as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe, so send me an email to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com

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Please never do that. Never curse your church by blessing us.

And also, please, if you are really struggling to survive, there's a stack of unpaid bills on your kitchen table that never seems to diminish in size.

You're really struggling. I don't want to take food off of anybody's dinner table, and I don't want to be the cause of more bills being delinquent in your household.

Supporting your church and supporting your family are two commands of God. Supporting Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is obviously not a command of God, but if you love the show, you don't want it to disappear, you have extra money collecting interest in the bank, you have extra money for benevolent, recreational, and trivial purposes, well, please share some of that money with us if you love the show and don't want it to disappear.

Go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click support, then click click to donate now. Also, if you are not a member of a

Christ -honoring, Bible -believing, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church, no matter where on the planet

Earth you live, I may be able to help you find a church, as I have done with many people spanning the globe in the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience, sometimes even finding them churches within just a few minutes from their homes.

So that could be you too. I have extensive lists spanning the globe, and I may be able to help you find a church no matter where you live.

Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I Need a Church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can submit a question to our guest

April Chapman. She is the host of the

Standard of Truth podcast, and we are discussing being black, female, conservative, and Christian, a 21st century survival guide.

chrisarnson at gmail .com, give us a first name, city and state, and country of residence. We have an anonymous listener, who says,

I was wondering if April has had the same experience as I have had. It seems to be one of the core issues that fellow black

Christians recoil in horror over is not necessarily the doctrines of Calvinism that I explained to them, but it's an abandonment of a matriarchal church system.

I was wondering if she agreed that far too much of the black Christian experience is matriarchal, where most either have some kind of pastor who's female on staff, or they are at least very open to the idea, and that seems to be a key issue that blocks any kind of further discussion.

What has your guest experienced? I would say that historically though,

I even think back to my childhood context. Remember when I said I went to like a little

Baptist -Costal hybrid church? I remember early on, there was nothing but male leadership there.

You know, it wasn't the most doctrinally sound place, but we held to some pretty orthodox historical

Christian doctrines. And then when the charismatic movement took a foot in the early 90s,

I noticed that when the landscape of the church started changing along with this theology, meaning when we introduce female leadership on the ministerial staff is when the doctrine started to decline and go south.

And so what we're noticing on a national stage in American evangelicalism, a lot of our churches, our meaning, you know, those that are predominantly black

Americans, they are leaning more heavily toward matriarchal leadership.

You'll either see the female co -pastor with the husband, or you'll just see a flat -out female pastor, female apostle, female bishop.

It's really a thing, and I do believe that it is reflective of what's going on in our community.

If over 70 % of our homes are spearheaded by women with no male in the home, then quite naturally that means the community is going to be reflective of that, and churches are made up of people in local communities.

And so, unfortunately, I would agree that in the black context, there is a lot of matriarchal leadership in the home, and it has spilled over into the church, which is probably part of the demise—I won't say it's the sole contributing factor to the demise of the theology being less orthodox, but it has a lot to do with it.

I always tell people, I have never listened to a female pastor that did not hold to some sort of heresy or false doctrine.

I don't know if it just comes with the territory—well, it kind of does. To be a female pastor, you have to rebel and just ignore the clear teaching of Scripture.

And so, if you're unwilling to submit to the Scriptures and just how God's church is to be run, then you're going to rebel in other areas that are pretty obvious, such as how the family should be run, what is sin, what is repentance.

So, I would argue—I hope that answers the question in a sufficient fashion. Yes, and it also reminds me of an interview

I conducted on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio in the early 2000s, when

I was still broadcasting out of WNYG in Babylon, Long Island. I had been recommended to interview a pastor whose name will be nameless, whose identity will be withheld because of the fact that I don't know if this person still teaches this.

But I was recommended to interview this pastor because he was apparently a thoroughgoing

Five -Point Calvinist, and he was a black pastor in Queens, New York. And so,

I decided to have him on the program. He was on—he was inside the studio, and my dear friend—I don't know if you know of him,

April, but if you don't, you should get a hold of his sermons, perhaps on Sermon Audio. He's in heaven now, but he was a very, very cherished friend,

Dr. Robert J. Cameron, who was a black Orthodox Presbyterian pastor.

Prior to that, he was a PCA pastor, and prior to that, he was a Reformed Episcopal pastor. But he pastored

Mount Carmel Church in Somerset, New Jersey, and a brilliant brother.

And he was on the phone while this other pastor was in the studio. And I was surprised because of the fact that this man was a thoroughgoing

Calvinist, as far as his soteriology is concerned. I was actually shocked how leftist he was when it came to political issues.

And also, he was a full -blown egalitarian. And I remember his wife accompanied him into the studio.

She was just sitting in the studio with the headphones on. She wasn't actually a participating guest.

She was just listening. And when I asked Dr. Cameron, Dr. Cameron, what do you think are some of the most serious problems that you have witnessed in the black church at large?

And Dr. Cameron, in his very unique, very easily recognizable voice, said, well,

I think you'll find that in most black churches today, they believe in the ordination of women.

And the pastor in the studio's wife said, oh Lord! And she threw her headphones onto the floor and stormed out of the building, never to return into the program.

So this was quite an interesting dilemma I had. But that also goes to be a little bit of a warning sign that even some churches that are theologically solid in certain areas are egalitarian and have women in the leadership.

So that's just a little caveat there. But as far as a social gospel, in your experience in that Baptist Church, was that a dominant thing from the pulpit where overcoming the oppression of white society and authority were dominating the messages that were really less involving the gospel and more involving how we shall overcome politically?

I will say that I do remember in the context in which I grew up, it wasn't a heavy black liberation theology so much.

It was more of, it was a heavy, it was heavy on African nationalism, even though none of us were from Africa.

And this could just be my isolated church context. They were very into African nationalism and us, you know, connecting with the motherland and, you know, wearing kente cloth and African tribal things and wanting to really serve in the context over there.

I don't remember there being a heavy emphasis on, like, a James Cone type of theology.

But I also do remember there was a lot of leeway and affirmation given to the typical

Al Sharptons of the world, you know, like if they wanted to come and speak at the church, they probably could.

But they were on a short leash back then. It was just always assumed that we would be

Democrats. I never remember a discussion where we focused on the scriptures are our final authority and we're going to vote our

Christian conscience. It was, we are black, so therefore this is how we vote. It was just a given.

And if you did not think that way, you just didn't fit in. And so you probably wouldn't have even found yourself in such a church.

So that's the context in which I grew up. I went to college thinking that way. I mean, I spoke to my mom recently and just asked,

I was like, why did you, why were you a Democrat? And she emphatically told me she was not joking.

She said, I mean, I just always thought that that's what you had to be. I just didn't think you could be anything else.

And I, that shocked me because I was just like, well, it's a party. Like you can register and change and be in, do whatever you want.

She was like, no, no, that's for those people over there. The blue side is for us.

And that's what I hit me. It hit me that there is a, particularly if you are a baby boomer and older, the understanding is, is that we have to be this way.

This is just who we are. And you're really not allowed. You have to party in that box.

You're not allowed to step outside of that box and do anything different or else you will be viewed as a traitor to your race, to your race.

Despite the fact, if you could vigorously defend and argue why you lean conservative or are conservative, it's almost like observable reality doesn't matter.

And it's almost, sometimes it's almost as if the scriptures don't even matter because they will sit in your face and say, you know what?

I heard what you just said. You just showed me the scripture. You're right. But I'm still going to vote this way.

It's like there's a disconnect between their actions and their outcome.

Like they'll complain about the inflation, they'll complain about the crime, but they don't make the connection that the inflation and the crime is because of the policies that are supported by the people they keep voting for.

Does that make sense? Oh yeah. And it actually goes hand in hand with the next question that I have from Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania.

Joseph says, when you have conversations with black Christians who continue to cling to the left wing of politics, do they really understand that, for instance, the abortion industry was originally intended to wipe blacks off the face of the earth and that Margaret Sanger was an avowed racist?

And do they understand that the Democratic Party has done really little to nothing to actually improve the lives of blacks, especially in the inner cities around this country?

I'll say this. If we're talking baby boomer and older, a lot of them don't even know who

Margaret Sanger is. So you just spoke German. It was just like wah, wah, wah, wah, wah.

They don't even know who Margaret Sanger is, right? So you first have to have the discussion and educate them and tell them who

Margaret Sanger is and what her agenda was and how she used the black pastor to infiltrate into the black community to sell us on murdering our own babies and that it's a good thing.

But even if you do that, that same, and you tell that person instantly, that is awful, that's a wicked woman, how could she do such a thing?

The rebuttal is, well, no one in our family is murdering their baby. We don't do that, but we still think that we shouldn't be able to tell other people what they can and cannot do.

And then when you try to rebut and say, but God's law demands that we do this.

Why is it okay to kill a baby in utero, but you would argue and defend and say it's not okay for us to murder toddlers.

They can make the mental leap for why murdering a toddler is wrong, but they somehow will not concede that the baby in utero is a person.

I've had that conversation. They will say, well, I don't, you know, we think abortion is murder.

Yeah, you're right, and I'm not going to participate in that, but we shouldn't legislate, you know, they've been sold and told and indoctrinated that it's healthcare, right?

When you have Stacey Abrams telling you that it's healthcare, they're not using the words.

Let's use biblical language here. We're people of the book. It is murder. You are willfully and maliciously taking the life of an innocent baby, right?

There's forethought, there's malice. It fits all the criteria of what the Bible defines as murder.

I'm telling you, when you have these conversations, they don't know who Margaret Singer is, and then when you educate them on who Margaret Singer is, it's almost like, well, that was then, but I say, well, what about Planned Parenthood that are strategically placed in the black community?

Like, that's happening now. They don't have an answer, and I think a lot of it is a cognitive dissonance.

They were not prepared for you to say the quiet part out loud and to confront them because now they've got to do something about it.

Now that they know and they can't claim ignorance, now they've got to do something about it, and more often than not, they don't want to do something about it.

You don't understand. You're going to be ostracized from the deacon board. If the deacons on the deacon board find out that you're voting conservative and you didn't vote for the latest shiny

Democratic pawn, you're ostracized from that. If you're in a sorority or a fraternity, you have to vote the way they vote.

Your whole sense of community or what you identify as who your people are, you're cut off for that, and that's why

I'm always telling people, who are my mother and my brothers? It's those who do the will of my father.

If I could get more people who look like me to abandon this collective group and recognize that your family is the family of God and all of these existential relationships, they're nice.

We give those people the gospel, but your family are those who claim the name of Christ, but in my community, it's the group.

You can't go against the group or else they're not going to want to be your friend, but I serve a savior.

I'm your friend who's six closer than a brother. I'm like, hey, when you've got Christ on your side, what more else do you?

Amen. Now, as far as our theme today, as far as being black, female, conservative, and Christian, a 21st century survival guide, you are obviously not someone who is going to retreat from controversy in conversation with either family, friends, loved ones, neighbors, just acquaintances, social media antagonists.

How do you mentally and emotionally survive being in a very tiny minority in the 21st century where it seems that there is such intense hostility towards someone like you?

I mean, it's to the point where the insanity of leftism is so grotesque and evil and slanderous that people like you would actually, no matter how dark your skin may be, would actually be labeled as white supremacists, as some pundits in the media who are black conservatives have been labeled.

How do you get through the day when you're interacting with people who especially are hostile toward you, and how often does that happen?

How much of your time is dealing with hostility, if at all? Well, one, it happens often, and I answer that, being a

Christian, you are going to be confronted with—the world's going to hate you. He said that. They're going to hate you.

I don't think he meant they're just going to just have a little pushback. They're going to hate you.

So, one, if you're born from above, you need to be okay with people hating you, right?

If they hated him, listen, we're dirt, we're nothing, right? And if they hated our Savior, we should count it all joy that, oh, yay, right?

That's like my favorite line. Yay, you hate me. Okay, you're not hating me because I'm just being a jerk.

You're literally hating me because the message that I share in the gospel that I proclaim is offensive to you.

I get it. So, that proves the Scriptures to be true. But I say, know what your identity is in Christ, right?

If you can get rooted and grounded and have a solid footing in who you are in Christ, that's the first step, right?

Get over the people -pleasing. Stop trying to, you know, perform for the applause of others.

Be used to being the lone man standing. And then second, having a strong church family.

I cannot emphasize the strength of the local church enough. We know we have church universals.

I'm talking about a local body of believers that you, they know you, you know them, you're pouring into their life, they're pouring into your life.

They love you. They know what your struggles are and vice versa. And you, you're fellowshipping with them often.

And there is something about, if you think about the early church and all of the persecution they were under, they were going through it together.

They weren't in isolation. They were like, well, listen, for Christ I live, for Christ I die. If we're going out, think of Perpetua and the entire group of other people that were martyred with her.

They had one another. And it's no different in modern day time.

Okay, so it's political persecution that is happening because our politics and our

Christian faith are now, it's becoming a thing. Get a strong local church.

You cannot afford to be without a solid local church body that you can connect with.

And then the family. If I didn't have a husband who was strong and concerned about family being, you know, rooted and grounded in the truth and in scripture and raising our children with a biblical worldview,

I'd probably be a nutcase right now. But it's because I have my husband who,

I mean, what I like to say, that's my ride or die. Like he's going to be there, you know, until the

Lord calls him home when probably nobody else will. Probably maybe my pastor or some, you know, some nice church ladies that I'm in community with.

But family, knowing your identity is hidden in Christ and you need to be seeking and looking for cues there.

Social media is nice. I love social media. I've been on social media for a very long time. I get YouTube, crazy

YouTube comments. Some of them I engage with when I know people are coming in good faith. But there are some people who just have nothing else better to do than to be mean, nasty, and start an argument.

If you have some time on your plate that day, I say go ahead and engage, you know.

Keep scripture first, right? Say what you need to say and then know when to bow out the conversation.

I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a homeschooling mom. I've got things to do. I don't have time to argue with you all day.

I will give you the gospel. Absolutely. I will not leave a conversation without telling you that Christ died for your sins in accordance with...

Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures. Like, we're trash, we're nothing, we're broken, we're spiritually dead apart from Christ.

Everything you're arguing right now is futility of mind. So having gospel conversations, having your identity in Christ, a strong church family, and a solid nuclear family,

I mean, I don't know what else you can have in your arsenal to hedge yourself against the attack.

Because honestly, they kind of just bounce off. I don't allow it to get to me in a sense that it's causing anxiety or worry or I just...

The apostles were brave. There were women in the scriptures who, you know, had to be brave.

You just... You look through the pages of scripture and look at... We come from a long, rich history of people who were warriors and who fought, and for righteousness, right?

Let your fight be for righteousness and for the cause of Christ and Christ alone. All of these other things are...

The politics to me, it's just a byproduct of the fact, and it flows from my Christian worldview.

That's really what it is. I got involved heavily into politics because politics was kind of creeping in with my faith.

Amen. Let me ask you a question that I've asked Virgil Walker and Darrell Bernard Harrison.

In the past, in the not so distant past, it had been often said to me by conservative black

Christians that the average congregant in a black church, no matter how liberal his pastor may be, or no matter how liberal -leaning or left -leaning the denomination they were in may be, the average congregant was a lot more conservative in their social and moral views, and even in their theological views, than those in the, quote -unquote, clergy.

A lot of the seminaries and so on that the major denominations that are predominantly black have gone off the charts in the left -wing direction.

So when I've asked that of Virgil and Darrell not so long ago, they said that that used to be the case from, in their own experience, and the people that they've spoken with, but they think that the tide has turned for the worst since the election of Barack Obama.

For some reason, that seemed to be a turning point where even the average members of churches that they have encountered in predominantly black congregations are just as leftist as their pastors are.

What is your experience? Do you agree with that? I do. They are, but when you drill it down, for example, if you were to take, if we took maybe 25 of these individuals, just hand -pick them, and you put them in front of a whiteboard, and you draw a line down the middle, and you don't, but you could put, you know, the conservative policies on the left, just to, you know, confuse them a little bit, and put the liberal policies on the right, and don't label it, nine times out of ten, most of those people won't even agree with 75 percent of liberal policies.

They don't. A lot of them don't, they're not even really thinking through the implications of, when

I vote this way, these are the outcomes I'm getting. It's, a lot of it's personality -driven, but they're not thinking through the policies, but their lives tend to be more on a liberal trajectory, because they're watching

CNN all day, and like you said, it's coming from the pulpit, and so 10, 15 years ago,

I would say most of these people really don't believe this, but they're evolving and adapting in their worldview, for whatever reason.

I can't even pinpoint why that is. I would argue that because a lot of these churches have abandoned biblical orthodoxy, these people are not being taught what the scriptures actually, they're being told this is what the scriptures actually teach, and because they're not reading for themselves, there's not a robust foundation of exposition going on in these churches.

It's a lot of cherry -picking, and you could hear a

Raphael Warnock somehow turn Jesus into a refugee, and then he goes from being a refugee to not having proper health care, because he was born in a trough, feeding trough, and they allegorize and make all of these claims that the

Bible doesn't make, and if you're just kind of going along with it, because you're like, yeah, he looks like me, that's my people, you will think that he said something profound.

But if you just examine it a little further, you'll be like, wait a minute, that is not what that scripture is teaching, and that was a real weaselly thing you did there, sir,

Mr. Warnock. There's a lot of that. But there's good news, because there is a huge awakening within the black community where people, you know what it is?

The crime is getting so bad, and they're recognizing that, wait a minute, my community is led by all of these leftists.

They don't really care about us, do they? And people are starting to recognize that the rhetoric that's coming out of their mouth is not really matching the outcome.

For some people, it takes longer for them to see it. I'm more of an individual one -on -one conversation.

If I can sit down with an individual and press them to make them think through their piece, I can win them winsomely to my side without it ending in a knockout -dragout fight, but it can get difficult if you don't keep the conversation focused, because they'll move the goalposts.

They'll move the goalposts and go, but what about this, and what about when Trump said that? Listen, let's stay focused.

We're right here, right? We're just talking about the genocide in our community and why we are beyond the rate of replacement in the black community.

Can we just hover there for a little bit? Let's taxi there, and let's deal with that, because if you find that, if you focus on how we got there, you're going to find that it's not some evil white person that's pushing that, that this has been a strategic thing placed in our community, and now we're doing it ourselves.

We have Robert in White Plains, New York, who says, just as Billy Graham is an untouchable amongst most white evangelicals,

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. seems to be quite an untouchable figure from history, not only among blacks, but among all liberals and even evangelicals to some extent.

Should we not bring up in conversation the fact that Dr. King denied pillars of the faith, such as the deity of Christ, the

Trinity, the bodily resurrection of Christ, and the substitutionary penal atonement that Christ provided on Calvary's cross?

Is this a waste of time? Should we stick to gospel issues, or should we be open and honest if they happen to bring up Dr.

King to let them know things about him that they may not know? I just recently discovered, listening to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio when

Virgil Walker was a guest, that Dr. King was a supporter of abortion, and he gladly received the

Margaret Sanger Award. What do we do with sacred cows such as this? We confront sacred cows.

We have to get to the point where we can have a healthy respect for the contributions that a person may or may not have made in our history, but I don't understand why we need to shy away from the truth.

If we're talking to white evangelicals and black evangelicals and we're using that in a broad term, then we want to deal with the truth.

I believe that those issues, those theological issues, those are gospel issues. The substitutionary atonement, that's a gospel issue, right?

The virgin birth. We don't have a virgin birth. We're in trouble, right? That means that Jesus was a good sin, and that could not be.

All of those things are theological, and I think it's a sacred cow because we all were in school and we learned about the

Civil Rights Movement, but even what we learned about the Civil Rights Movement wasn't all as it was presented to be.

So, I don't know if you've seen the movie Uncle Tom 2. It does a very good job. Oh, I definitely want to see it.

I saw the first one, but I'm looking forward to seeing the second. Yeah, the second one does a very, very good job of explaining the issues with the

Civil Rights Movement. Just supposing, you know, even before that during Reconstruction with Washington and WPB, it does a nice, long, slow stroll through history to explain about the

Marxism of MLK and his abhorrent theological views.

Those things need to be discussed, and the gains that we thought we made in the Civil Rights Movement was really just a smokescreen.

It was like a Trojan horse for something else. We need to discuss them, but I get the pushback, because if you've always been told that, you know, you get to the mountaintop, and I have a dream, and we shall overcome.

Okay, great. Well, we've reached the mountaintop, right? There are no laws on the books that claim that Black people need to sit here and use this entrance, and they are not able to live where they want.

Those restraints are no longer present. So, we can celebrate those wins, but it's also okay to take a critical look at some of our historical figures, particularly if you are a

Christian. Now, if you're a secular humanist, none of this matters to you. You're just like, hey, he was a great guy. I like him.

You can move on, but if you're a believer, I'm not going to... I don't want to be blindsided and lied to and hoodwinked.

Just tell me the truth, you know? If I need to do a little bit more research and dig,

I should not be mad at you because you told me that MLK did not believe in the virgin birth, and that, you know, substitutionary atonement.

Like, I should want to know that, because then it answers other questions as to, well, what was really at work here?

Was this really a pastor, or was this something else, you know? Was that a church he was leading, or was it something else?

This abortion agenda that we have now that's afoot in the Black community, did he participate in that?

Like, is there the passing of the torch, the NAACP? Like, all of these questions, it's okay to push back and examine those, and like I said, this could be a personality thing.

I have no problem confronting people with the truth. Now, I'll warn them and say, this one's going to sting a little bit, this one's going to hurt, so lean in.

I'm about to tell you some information that is going to push against your deeply held convictions, but you're going to be better for it on the other side,

I promise. And when you kind of soften the blow that way, and then lay it on them, it's not so bad. And we're going to go to our final break right now.

It's going to be much briefer than the other breaks, and if you have a question, please send it in immediately, because we are rapidly running out of time.

Chris Arnsett at gmail .com. Give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence. We'll be right back with April Chapman.

Don't go away. Hi, I'm Pete Hegseth, co -host of Fox and Friends Weekend. Now, I don't have to tell you, but American education, it's in a free fall, crumbling under the weight of a century of damage inflicted upon America's academic system.

The answer? It's called classical Christian education, a form of K through 12 ed that's very distinct from the type of education most

Americans have received, myself included. And that's why I'm so excited to have been invited by my friends at Long Island's Grace Christian Academy to talk about this wonderful growing movement and new approach rediscovered to education.

It's at 7 p .m. October 15th at the Marriott Hotel and Conference Center in Melville, New York. I'll also be signing copies of my

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Now, this is a fundraising event designed to raise money to help grow this type of education at a time when it is so desperately needed.

So please come ready to give and to learn about a way to stimulate academic revival in our great country.

You can purchase tickets for the event by visiting GCALI, G -C -A -L -I dot com and following the link to the gala event.

I hope to see you there. And remember, folks, the updated website is GCALI dot com forward slash invite.

That's G -C -A -L -I dot com forward slash invite for free registration.

I hope to see you there Saturday, October 15th, 7 p .m. at the Marriott Hotel and Conference Center in Melville, New York, where I will be the master of ceremonies and Pete Hexeth the keynote speaker.

I hope to see you there. I'm Dr.

Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the commentary on the theology and ethics of the

Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the larger catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the

Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you.

As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

The church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Welcome back.

We have Christian in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who says, I was wondering if your guest has ever seen the documentary that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio frequently promotes called

MAFA 21, Black Genocide in 21st -Century America. Yes, thank you,

Christian. That is an excellent documentary, and I don't know if April has seen it. Have you? It's really absolutely outstanding.

Actually, on the abortion issue within the book,

Catherine Davis, who she ran for on the GOP ticket here in Georgia, a black woman who is the chairperson of the

Restoration Project. She has done incredible work trying to educate and sound the alarm.

She is the first person that gave me that DVD. She was like, you need to watch this.

And she's also authored a book on the topic. She does an amazing job traveling and speaking and sharing and trying to sound the alarm to let people in the black community know, listen, this is an agenda, and this is what's happening, and this is a genocide.

Someone needs to speak up. We need to be pro -life. So I am very familiar with that.

Now that you bring it up, I might just whip it out and watch it over the weekend. I think it would be good pressure.

Amen. And by the way, the website for MAFA 21, MAFA, by the way, is the

Swahili word for genocide. That's M -A -A, F as in Frank, A -21 .com,

M -A -A -F -A -21 .com. And now I'd like you to basically summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before we go off the air.

I would like your listeners to recognize that their identity is hidden in Christ.

Whether you are, you know, a white person and you are feeling that you don't have a voice and you're unable to speak your mind and just tell the truth because of fear of retaliation,

Christ is your savior. You have nothing to be afraid of. You don't need to repent for sins of your forefathers.

You don't need to kiss boots and bow and do all of this. Christ died once for all, and his substitutionary atonement on the cross is satisfaction for the sin debt that you owed.

And if your forefathers were in Christ, it's for theirs too. So my takeaway is if you remind yourself that your identity is hidden in Christ, then that's all that matters.

If you're a black person listening and you're like, you know, I feel alone and I feel like I'm all by myself because I don't have anyone to talk to about these issues and I feel like I'm an outcast and everyone hates me because I'm a conservative, you're in good company, right?

The apostles were persecuted. We come from a long, rich history of people who were persecuted and scorned and shamed for their faith.

It's not the politics that they don't like. It's the God you serve that is giving them the issue.

And if your worldview is biblical, it's not the politics that are bothering them.

Their issue is with scripture. So it's okay. Use it as an opportunity to give them the gospel.

Share with them how the Lord supernaturally saved you and changed your mindset and reoriented your thinking to where you no longer think like this, but you think like this.

That's the overarching message that there's no special toolkit that you need to, you know, outside of your sword, which is the scriptures, the sword, you know, that's your weapon of choice.

Arm yourself with the scriptures, study it, learn it in context, connect to a good

Bible -believing church, and that's it. That's really my overarching message.

Because it's not about sin is our issue. It's not our color and all this division that they're trying to put us against one another.

This is a sin problem, and if you can look past the color and just look at the deep -rooted sin, you will see why our

Savior has to die. Amen. And the website for the Standard of Truth podcast is thestandardoftruthpodcast .com.

Thank you so much, April. If you could hang on the line, I'd like to give you a proper goodbye off the air to Cindy in Findlay, Ohio, who wanted to know the name of that documentary that April mentioned.

It's Uncle Tom 2, a production of Larry Elder of Salem Media, who you frequently see on Fox News.

That's Uncle Tom 2. Obviously, there's an Uncle Tom 1 as well. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater