Dinosaurs, Dragons, and the Bible with Bodie Hodge

Andrew Rappaport's Rapp Report

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That's findmassmoney .gov. Do dinosaurs prove that God doesn't exist?

01:05

Are dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible? No, that can't be possible, because we didn't discover them, did we?

01:13

Well, those and more answers are coming your way on The Rap Report. Welcome to The Rap Report with your host,

01:21

Andrew Rapoport, where we provide biblical interpretation and application. This is a ministry of striving for eternity in the

01:28

Christian podcast community. For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

01:34

Well, welcome to The Rap Report. I'm your host, Andrew Rapoport, the executive director of Striving for Eternity and the

01:40

Christian podcast community, of which this podcast is a proud member. We thank you for joining.

01:46

We thank you for those who share these episodes, because that really helps others to find out about us, and this is one

01:54

I think you might want to share. Just saying, not only because of the topic, but because of the guest.

02:00

If you haven't heard of Bode Hodge, well, Bode, I said this before we recorded, you write on more of a wide range topics than I think anybody

02:10

I know. I think last time you were on, we were talking world religions, we were talking cessationism, we were talking a whole bunch of things.

02:18

Now we're going to talk about your newest book, Dinosaurs, Dragons, and the

02:23

Bible. Wait, dragons? What do they have to do with dinosaurs? Let's hold that thought.

02:29

So, if folks weren't here for the last time you were on, and I think I said this to you, Bode, I believe you may be our only return guest to The Rap Report.

02:41

I could be wrong. I don't remember of any, but you are such an...

02:47

Well, one is so informative because of the so many different topics that we get into, but your books are so engaging, and so I always have an interest,

02:59

I always love when you come on, so I'm looking forward to this, but for folks who don't know who you are, introduce yourself briefly, let them know where you work, why you write books, because you're just bored and have nothing else to do, right?

03:13

Yeah, well, my name is Bode Hodge. It's actually great to be back on the show with you there, Andrew. I love getting out there talking about different subjects, particularly apologetics topics, especially creation versus evolution, authority of scripture, so of course

03:28

I'm going to end up diving into a host of different subjects. But my background, I've got a bachelor's and master's degree in mechanical engineering, and that right there should tell you something.

03:36

Engineers have their fingers in all sorts of stuff, it seems like. But I used to teach at Southern Illinois University, and I used to work at Caterpillar as a test engineer for a large cat equipment.

03:47

I used to go out and test it, and I loved doing that, but once I went into ministry, I wouldn't change it.

03:53

I love getting in there, diving in, looking at various subjects in light of scripture, letting

03:58

God be the absolute authority at any subject I look at, and I just love doing that, so it's great to be back on the show with you.

04:05

Well, thanks. So let's get into the fact that I think we all have a love for dinosaurs.

04:14

I mean, this is one of the things that I find so interesting. Every child seems to be just inundated with things about dinosaurs, and what seems to come along with dinosaurs all the time is millions of years.

04:30

Millions of years. It's almost as if they're one and the same. In fact, after I got saved and started going to church,

04:39

I used to go to more of the independent Fundamentalist Baptist churches, and some of those churches, not the one

04:45

I attended, but some of those that also believe in the King James only, would deny that dinosaurs existed.

04:53

I got into discussion with someone, and the reason they denied dinosaurs existed is because they could not separate dinosaurs from evolution.

05:04

Can we as Christians do that? You know what? I've seen other denominations do that, too.

05:11

I've also seen some people who are kind of a little bit older, they've had that concept of, hold on a second, dinosaurs, they've just been so intertwined with an evolutionary worldview that people, they just want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and we have to be very careful about that.

05:26

You know, I grew up in a church where we never really talked about dinosaurs at all. We just kind of left it all off.

05:33

And essentially what happened was my parents sent me to a public school, that's where I learned about dinosaurs from the secular world, and our church never discussed it at all.

05:42

So I mean, I can see why so many people struggle with getting good answers when it comes to the subject of dinosaurs.

05:49

And I'll tell you, when I started studying this subject, this one here was the one that really got me to turn around and go, okay, the

05:58

Bible really can be trusted on any subject. That's where I led when

06:03

I was doing this study on dinosaurs years ago. I mean, I've been working on this book for five years, but at the same time,

06:11

I first got into a lot of the creation evolution debate as a result of reading a book on dinosaurs in the

06:17

Bible, by Ken Ham, actually. He'd written one many years ago, and little did I know, many years later,

06:23

I would marry his oldest daughter. So I always thought that was kind of neat. But no, that got me interested in the subject, going, hold on.

06:31

Dinosaurs don't have to be connected to an evolutionary worldview. Dinosaurs are land animals, therefore they're made on day six.

06:38

It's as simple as that. Man was made on day six, so they lived at the same time. All of a sudden, that is a conflict with the secular worldview that we've all just been hit with.

06:46

And to me, that was like an eye -opening moment, like, oh, hold on. Yeah, we can look at dinosaurs from a biblical viewpoint.

06:52

Of course we can separate dinosaurs from that secular worldview. We need to remember it's the secular view that's wrong.

06:58

It is a false religion, a false view that's been imposed on people. And let's get back and look at this subject in light of God and His Word.

07:05

Yeah, because I think that part of the thinking is that the word dinosaur, it's not actually all that old.

07:14

No, it's a new word. Mid -1800s, a man named Sir Richard Owen, he was the one who first coined it or termed it.

07:21

He came up with dinosaur and dinosauria and used that. And, you know, with that particular terminology, that's a new term.

07:30

Now, if you think of, you know, Bible translations into English, you might think of the 15 and 1600s.

07:35

There was Tyndale, the Geneva Bible. There was the Great Bible, the Matthews Bible, the Bishop's Bible. People are arguing over those

07:41

Bibles. So finally they came together and said, let's get a standardized translation. They got the King James in 1611.

07:48

And, of course, it's gone through a lot of revisions. And what a lot of people don't realize is most of our modern translations, one way or another, still have roots and ties back to versions like the

07:57

King James. But if you think of that, okay, we have English translations, a lot of them, you know, by the 1600s, and yet the word dinosaur wasn't even invented until 1841.

08:07

We don't expect to find the word dinosaur in the Bible. In fact, you grab a Bible search program, search dinosaur, it's just not there.

08:14

But there is another word that's used in the Bible that does include creatures like dinosaurs, and that brings us to the word dragon.

08:22

And the King James Old Testament is used 22 times, and the Old Geneva Bible is 24 times. And it's not one word, and it's not one isolated book.

08:29

It's about two or three words that we translate as dragon, and we see that in a host of different translations as well, like German translations and Portuguese and Greek translations and so forth.

08:40

So we do see this word being used as dragon for a long time.

08:46

And it's just been in modern times that people decided, hey, let's pull the word dragon out, unless it's a metaphorical instance.

08:52

You know, they like to keep a handful of those in there. But by and large, it's there in these old classic translations.

08:59

So that's, I mean, that also goes to some that a lot of atheists usually would challenge on the word unicorns in the

09:09

Bible. And so for folks who don't, if you read a King James version, I don't hear this argument as much anymore because people aren't reading the

09:17

King James, but it used to be a very common thing of, oh, well, you know, unicorns are mentioned in the Bible, and those, we know those are fictitious creatures.

09:25

Well, the modern definition is, but in 1611, a single horned animal like a rhinoceros, a single horned rhinoceros, and that was what it was in Webster's dictionary, was a single horned animal such as a rhinoceros.

09:42

And so I've seen unicorns. Yeah, I've got a picture on my door out here.

09:47

You know, because there's two types of rhinosaurs. They have two different scientific names as well.

09:54

You have the rhinoceros bicornis and the rhinoceros unicornis. And unicornis obviously has one horn.

10:02

The bicornis has two horns. A lot of people think of a two -horned form, but there are some one -horned unicorns, essentially a rhinoceros unicornis that are still floating around out there.

10:14

But back in the past, there was a big one, a lasmosaurus, or not, if I'm trying to think of the term right.

10:20

I can't remember the technical term. But it was this gigantic horn that had a singular horn.

10:27

And you know what? The way that's used in the scripture, you know, God is going to bring the Israelites out of Egypt like a unicorn.

10:33

You know, you get out of its way, especially with that big horn. So, yeah. Yeah, people don't realize that.

10:38

So dragons, you're saying, and I would agree, is dragons are referring to the same creatures that we refer to today as dinosaurs.

10:51

Yeah, there's overlap with all that. Dragon is more of an overarching term. But let me first explain.

10:57

When it comes to dragons, people, commentators, historians, everybody agreed that they were real.

11:04

It's only been a modern idea, really, since about the 1900s. It was floating around in the 1800s that dragons are a myth.

11:11

Now, here's why. Ancient commentators talked about them. We have descriptions of them.

11:16

We have written accounts of them. We have encounters with them over and over again. But in the 1800s, they were largely gone.

11:25

From the 1500s, particularly to the 1800s, we saw a massive decline in these encounters with these dinosaur, dragon -like creatures.

11:32

So in the 1800s, there's only a couple of them. But people had this strange and odd idea that animals could not go extinct.

11:39

It was very odd that people used to think that way. Today, we understand animals go extinct all the time.

11:45

We've seen dodo birds and passenger pigeons, and a lot of people think West African rhino has gone extinct.

11:51

We see extinctions all the time. But in the 1800s, they didn't think that could happen. So if you didn't see a creature, they thought, well, it was a myth.

11:58

It didn't exist. And so that started floating around in the 1800s, that, hey, maybe these things are a myth, and if that's the case, let's change some of our

12:06

Bible translations. Let's get this word dragon out, and let's switch it to something else. But dragon itself is more of an overarching term.

12:13

It included flying reptiles. It included sea reptiles, as well as a host of different land reptiles.

12:20

That would have included these dinosaurs. See, dinosaurs are a very specific type of land reptile.

12:26

They have one of two hip structures, so they raise their body up off the ground. So something like a

12:32

Komodo dragon, crocodile, alligator, they're not technically a dinosaur because their legs come out to their side and the body naturally rests on the ground.

12:40

But if it stands upright like a T -Rex or a Stegosaur or a Triceratops, yes, by definition, they're a dinosaur.

12:47

So yes, dragons would include the dinosaurs, but it also includes other things. I like to say it like this.

12:54

All the dinosaurs could be called a dragon, but not all the dragons could technically be called a dinosaur. You know, so why is it, do you think, that we have such a fascination with dinosaurs?

13:08

Why is it that every child seems to love, especially boys, love dinosaurs?

13:15

You know what? When I was a kid, I loved dinosaurs. You know, you're exactly right with that.

13:21

I think there's a fascination behind it for a couple of reasons. First off, we don't see them anymore. So we have this wonder in our mind, like, wow, what would it really be like to see something like this?

13:31

The second thing is a lot of these dinosaurs were huge creatures. You know, we don't sit there and get mesmerized over little bitty insects that have gone extinct, but, you know, you start thinking of a brachiosaurus,

13:43

I'm 60 feet long, yeah, I'd be curious to see that sort of thing. You know, so I think there's a couple of reasons for that.

13:51

So, you know, I know when I was a kid, I was really influenced by dinosaurs.

13:57

In fact, I still have the book. Let me grab it. I want to show you. I was in grade school, and I was in one of those scholastic clubs, you know, where you can buy a book, and it's like 35 cents.

14:09

Nobody can buy a book for 35 cents. But this was the book I bought. I still have it.

14:15

The Rest of the Dinosaurs by Troll Associates. Very first line of the book, millions of years ago.

14:23

Now, as a child, I mean, I grew up in church. As a child, though, this book to me was the gospel of dinosaurs.

14:31

To me, this was the unquestionable truth. They died at the end, this last one got caught in a tree.

14:38

I mean, that's the way I thought. As a young child, as a young boy who was really interested in dinosaurs,

14:43

I was heavily influenced by this book. That's one of the reasons that I want to get books out, to start challenging the secular worldview, get people back to understanding them from a biblical viewpoint.

14:53

Because it was tough for me to take some of these ideas that I grew up with and have to pull that out and say, hold it, that was wrong, let me get back to the

15:01

Bible. Yeah, because we have all the movies now that come out, Jurassic Park, and I saw the first one, and that was, what, in the 90s,

15:11

I believe? Oh, that was way back, yeah. It was so heavily influenced with evolutionary thought and teaching and feminism.

15:22

I noticed it, it was so blatant that I was like, wow, okay. Why would

15:28

I watch any more of them? But the thing is that the whole culture seems to want to tie that, look, we have evidence of dinosaurs, as if that is proof we have evidence of millions of years.

15:43

And you're right, we're infatuated with the large dinosaurs, but were they all that large?

15:52

No, there was a lot of dinosaurs that were quite small. Heterodontosaurus, for example, is about the size of a chicken.

15:58

I know that's one of those ones that's, you know, the name is bigger than the creature. But, you know, there's a lot of them that were small.

16:08

I think they said if you take all the dinosaurs and you average them out, it's about the size of a bison or a horse, something like that, just to give you an idea.

16:15

So not all of them were big. We're fascinated usually with the big ones. You know, like you mentioned,

16:21

Jurassic Park, Jurassic World, they sometimes exaggerate dinosaurs. Like they have these velociraptors that look, you know, six, seven, eight feet tall running around chasing people.

16:31

But, you know, when it comes down to it, they would only come about waist high on me.

16:37

So that's a full -size one. Now, there were other raptors, like a Utahraptor, not a velociraptor. That one's a little bit taller.

16:43

But you've got to understand Hollywood tends to exaggerate things, and they're pushing an agenda many times, too.

16:50

And you see it in these movies, Jurassic World, and even Journey to the Center of the Earth. You know, they had T -Rexes chasing people.

16:56

We don't even know. Maybe these creatures were very timid and very fearful of man. You know, a lot of these dragon legends, there were accounts where there were conflicts, of course.

17:06

Ever since the flood, the fear of man has been in the animals, and there's conflicts. But, yeah, it's interesting the way

17:12

Hollywood puts their spin on things. You're not saying Hollywood would exaggerate. Oh, no.

17:20

They're in the business of selling movies. You know, if they can scare you with a dinosaur, and you go back and buy a second ticket, they'll do it.

17:26

I think I disagree. I think they're in the business of selling propaganda. They're in the business of selling an agenda.

17:34

And part of that agenda requires a denial that God exists and teaching anything that would undercut the belief in God.

17:44

So making dinosaurs and millions of years connection is going to go right along with what their agenda is for sure.

17:52

So, you know, when we talk about the dinosaurs, the large dinosaurs, many of those would be in the reptile family, right?

18:01

Correct. We see skin imprints. They were scaly creatures. Technically, you know, with these dinosaurs, they would have been more like scutes.

18:08

They're specialized forms of scales. So, I mean, we find that with T. rex, with all sorts of different creatures.

18:16

You know, right there where they died. You know, we can tell it's their skin imprints. You know, in a few cases, we found some soft tissue found in bones.

18:24

We've got some incredibly preserved dinosaurs in some instances. So, yeah, we're pretty certain these things were reptilian in their style.

18:32

We have found some lungs that had been preserved in certain dinosaurs, and those were reptilian -style lungs.

18:40

But, you know, we're in a culture that says dinosaurs evolved into birds. And so, you know, we're in a culture that really wants to try to tie dinosaurs into bird -like creatures.

18:51

And so people try to make missing links, and the way they do that is they take dinosaurs and they try to put bird -like features on it.

18:57

The second way is they take birds and they try to put reptilian -type features on it.

19:03

You know, Archaeopteryx is a great example of that. It's just an ancient perching bird, but it had claws on its wings and it had teeth.

19:10

And they say, oh, well, those are reptilian features. Well, not really. There are some birds that have teeth, like hummingbirds can have teeth, particular ones.

19:18

And Hyacinth down in South America, they have claws on the wings in the juvenile stage.

19:24

So those are features of a bird. In fact, all birds have this gene that you can turn on and off, and they've done this in chickens where it'll grow teeth.

19:32

It's a TALID2 gene. So those are simply bird features, but people want to say, well, they're reptilian features to try to make a missing link.

19:43

I think I want my chicken without the teeth. Yeah, me too. I still remember in high school,

19:49

I watched, it was a cartoon of how the dinosaurs, they got into birds and they had this, you know, little, like, dinosaur that wasn't very big running up a log or a rock and jumping off of it.

20:07

And then eventually it would gain wings and then eventually fly away.

20:14

And they explained, like, you know, flying squirrels were the evidence of that.

20:19

They showed us a cartoon of a flying squirrel doing the same thing. And they had the mammals that went into the sea and suddenly, you know, they became whales and dolphins.

20:32

And I still remember thinking back then, like, okay, if you keep jumping off a big rock or you go into the sea and you're not equipped for it, you're not going to suddenly stay there and produce offspring that can adapt better to that.

20:47

You're going to either die or get out. You're going to die. Here, jump off the cliff.

20:52

Yeah, yeah. Or you sit in water, you're not equipped for it. You're not going to survive in there.

20:59

So you're just going to get out of the water. You're not going to reproduce children that are better equipped for that.

21:07

Right. In fact, it's interesting that they do that because we'll still see examples of that over and over again.

21:13

And yet that's called Lamarckian evolution. The evolutionists, by and large, don't even believe that form of evolution.

21:19

This was like the precursor form before Charles Darwin. You know, it was the kind, you know, where, well, if the giraffe reaches his head up enough, he's going to get a longer neck to eat those high leaves.

21:30

But, you know, as we've observed, you don't get Lamarckian evolution. And, you know, Darwin's like, yeah, that's wrong.

21:37

You know, even though he had a little bit of influence from that, you know, and he was suggesting natural selection. The problem with natural selection, though, is you have to have the genes already there to select for it.

21:47

So where'd they come from in the first place? And I think Darwin recognized that. By his sixth and final edition of Origin of Species, he'd really backed off of natural selection being the sole generator for an evolutionary worldview.

22:00

And then people, of course, want to appeal to mutations. But we don't see mutations cause all this information -gaining mutations to make something new, new complex structures and features.

22:13

We don't observe it. When we see mutations, it's like cancer or defects. It destroys information quickly.

22:20

So those changes are actually going in the opposite direction of an evolutionary worldview. We're not observing the onward and upward.

22:25

We're seeing the downward trend. And I think a lot of people are confused at that because they're told an evolutionary worldview at school, and they're given examples of changes, but these examples of changes are going in the wrong direction, and they just assume they're moving on up.

22:40

Yeah. Well, the thing I find interesting with reptiles, and this I learned out there at Answers in Genesis when

22:48

I was there, reptiles continue to grow until the day they die. And so this has been something

22:53

I've used often. I'll ask people, okay, so you believe dinosaurs are millions of years old? Yes.

22:58

Do we have dinosaurs today? And people almost always say no because what they're thinking of is the huge dinosaurs.

23:06

And I'll ask them sometimes, like, why not? Like, do you not see any? And they'll always refer to the big, where do you think they're hiding?

23:14

What do you think, Loch Ness Monster? And the point I end up making, I say, okay, if reptiles continue to grow until the day they die, and we know that human beings, instead of dying in their 60s, 70s, were dying in their 800s, 900s, you're talking about a 12 % to 15 % increase in lifespan.

23:39

Shouldn't we expect the dinosaurs to be 12 % to 15 % times larger? Yeah. Theoretically, they should be getting bigger if they're living longer, especially in a pre -flood world.

23:50

I mean, you've got to think, when God created everything, he created it perfect. And yes, when Adam and Eve sinned against God, God cursed the ground, he cursed the animals.

23:58

There were definitely changes going on there. These creatures were not going to live forever, for example. But they're still going to live a long time because the

24:04

Earth was designed perfectly. After the flood, God rearranged continents and things were shifted.

24:10

Everything was all mixed up and messed up. We're going to get more extreme weather and so forth, so things aren't always going to have a perfect environment like it was essentially designed for.

24:20

So, yeah, we expect there to be massive changes. And since the flood, that's when we really believe a lot of these creatures have gone extinct, not just dinosaurs, but a host of different things.

24:30

I sometimes sit back and wonder something else, too, and I actually talk about this in the book. In 1973, we enacted the

24:38

Endangered Species List. How many things would have been extinct if we wouldn't have enacted that?

24:44

I mean, we probably wouldn't have bald eagles. We probably wouldn't have rhinos or elephants or lions or tigers or cheetahs.

24:50

A host of different creatures are probably gone. Condors. We might well be sitting around going,

24:57

I wonder if lions were a myth. I wonder if elephants were a myth. We see these old drawings in these accounts, but we just don't see them anymore.

25:05

So, you know, it would almost be in the same category as these dinosaur dragon -like creatures.

25:12

So, you know, when I think of things like that historically, there were certain events that caused certain extinctions.

25:18

I think people were involved in hunting a lot of these creatures. I mean, let's face it today. When hunters go out, you know, and I've been a hunter.

25:25

I grew up on a farm. You know, the deer that I'd want to shoot wasn't the little one.

25:31

It was the big one. I want that big one. You know, that's the trophy, you know, in one sense. I wonder if ancient hunters were the same way.

25:39

Hey, there's a huge reptile out here. That's the one I want. You know, so in one sense, they're a target if they're bigger.

25:46

Well, see, if you just enjoy the meat, you want the smaller ones. That's right. It's all about what you're hunting for, right?

25:54

You want the trophy. You want the big, something big. If you're trying to feed a lot of people, you want something, you want a lot of meat.

26:01

Yep. So it always comes down to the goal, right, of why you're hunting there. But you're right.

26:07

It is the, there is the aspect that the size does, I think the size of the dinosaurs do fascinate us.

26:13

I mean, folks who are listening, think about how many times do you go to a museum and you see the skeleton?

26:21

Now, here's the thing. You see that huge skeleton of a T -Rex or you see the huge skeleton of a blue whale.

26:29

Both impress us. So I don't think it's about the fact they went extinct as much as it is the size that we're impressed with.

26:41

The fact that we don't see them anymore, that so many have gone extinct, I think just, I think that that fascinates us.

26:50

But so many try to argue that proves millions of years. So do we have biblical evidence that we could use to say, well, yeah, yeah, dinosaurs exist.

27:03

And by the way, you know, just remind folks, we're speaking with author Bodie Hodge from Dinosaurs, Dragons, and the

27:08

Bible. It is available, well, it's available at Masters Books, but I'm sure it's also available at Answers in Genesis. So you could go there.

27:15

I would hope they carry your book. Yeah. Yeah, it's been flying off the shelves, actually, here.

27:22

Yeah. And it is helpful for, look, if you are a parent with young children, or in my case now, a grandparent, this is a book that I'll be sitting down with and teaching, even if I'm not reading it or having my grandson read it, you know, when he's much younger, it's going to be something

27:43

I'm going to be teaching him, the things of it. So do we have biblical evidence for dinosaurs, or as you said, dragons?

27:52

Yeah, you know what? We're all looking at the same evidence. I think that's a big point that a lot of people need to understand.

27:57

It's not like the evolutionists have their evidence, and we have our evidence. We're all looking at the same evidence. The difference is the interpretation of that evidence.

28:05

Of course, the secular world wants to look at dinosaurs thinking in terms of a secular humanistic worldview. That is

28:10

Big Bang Evolution, millions of years. We're going to look at it from a different perspective. We're going to start with God and His Word.

28:16

God created everything in six days, made the dinosaurs on day six. God made the flying reptiles and the sea reptiles on day five, because those are the flying and the sea creatures.

28:25

Now, we do find their bones. We find massive numbers of them. In fact, we find these different dinosaur graveyards in Mongolia and China, here in the

28:33

United States and different parts of the world. So we do find their bones. We find this evidence that they used to exist, and they died in some sort of massive watery catastrophe.

28:44

That's the flood of Noah's day. That's what we need to do. We need to recognize, hey, these rock layers from Cambrian largely up to, you know,

28:52

Eocene, Miocene, things like that, these are layers from the flood of Noah's day.

28:58

And I know the post -flood boundary people do argue the exact spot for that. But the dinosaur layers, everybody, you know, that's looking at it from a biblical viewpoint, agree these rock layers are from the flood of Noah's day.

29:09

So when you think Cretaceous, Triassic, Jurassic sediment, where dinosaurs are, Noah's floating around in the ark up above them when those are being laid down.

29:18

So we need to look at this evidence from a biblical viewpoint. In the secular world, they assume those rock layers were laid down slowly and gradually over millions and billions of years with no major catastrophes like a flood.

29:32

No, no, no, we're not looking at it that way. We're thinking in terms of a massive worldwide global flood that laid down the majority of these rock layers that have fossils all in about the course of a year.

29:41

So we're looking at the same evidence, two different interpretations of that evidence. Okay, so this is a topic a lot of people don't quite understand when you talk about the layers, because the teaching that we have in books are that there are these different periods of time and we have dinosaurs in different layers and that's how we could prove the millions of years.

30:03

We have, you know, the Capernaum explosion, right, where all of a sudden we see all these fossils.

30:09

So after this break, what I want to do is ask you to explain it in a little bit more detail.

30:15

For some people that don't understand all of the layers and levels, how can we explain this?

30:25

Because so many use it for millions of years. We really see a bulk of them in a single layer, right?

30:32

So let's dig into that. And I know I don't want people to go, well, this is, you know, all this stuff of layers of, you know, the

30:40

Jurassic. Well, the Jurassic, they get excited about because the movie you made about it. But when you talk about all the other layers, it's like, oh, this is so boring.

30:48

Well, we don't want to put you to sleep. But if you do want to go to sleep, I will encourage you this way, is get yourself a good

30:55

MyPillow. You could get a MyPillow and get yourself a good sleep. And their newest

31:01

MyPillow is MyPillow 2 .0, where they have an ability to do temperature control in not only their pillow, but also their mattress topper, if you get one of those, which

31:13

I love my mattress topper. That has been one of the biggest things to help my sleep is their three -inch mattress topper.

31:21

And so I have been testing out their new, I got their new one to test out. So now even my guests, my guests in my home get the old mattress topper and I have the new one.

31:32

And it has resolved the temperature issue between my bride and I because I tend to run a little hot and she doesn't.

31:39

And so I don't know how they did it, but it's great. Bodie, you and I were talking about their slippers.

31:45

Yes. I'm in my slippers all day long. Yeah, they are amazing. I destroy, we were talking about this.

31:51

I destroy slippers. I don't know what it is. I just, I wear them all day long because I work here in the house.

31:58

And I used to buy the cheap ones at Costco and go through them, you know, six months to a year,

32:04

I was done. I have the same. I bought two pair of my pillow slippers two years ago.

32:10

I still have them. I still wear them. They're great. How comfortable are yours?

32:16

Yeah, my slippers are just amazing. I'm not kidding. You know, I run around on these things.

32:21

You know, I do a lot of walking in them as well. And they just hold up. They're rugged. They're built like they're supposed to be.

32:27

I'll tell you what, they're amazing and they're comfortable. Yeah. They just really are. They are. I enjoy mine so much.

32:33

I mean, look, folks, I begged MyPillow to be a sponsor here because of the fact that I love their products.

32:40

So, if you want to get some of their products, go to MyPillow .com. Use the promo code SFE. It stands for Striving For Eternity.

32:48

The promo code SFE lets them know you heard about it here so they continue sponsoring us, which we appreciate.

32:54

And so, if you want to do that, that would be wonderful. Then you'll get not only a good night's sleep, but you can get robes and towels and bed sheets and mattress toppers and slippers.

33:06

And they even have socks. I may try those, but I don't know if there's anything different with those. So, we're with Bodie Hodge with the book

33:17

Dinosaurs, Dragons, and the Bible. He is with Answers in Genesis. And so,

33:23

Bodie, let me ask the question I asked before the break is, can you explain a little bit better for folks that may not understand all the geological layers?

33:34

Because when we talk about those layers, oh, those words sound so big, except for Jurassic because a movie was made out of it.

33:41

That one everyone knows. But do we really see different dinosaurs in different layers and only in those layers?

33:51

And is there a layer that I alluded to that really we see most of them in?

33:56

And what could that mean? Okay. Just so people understand, the idea of millions and billions of years actually came from rock layers.

34:04

It was in the late 1700s, early 1800s when people first started to say, let's leave the Bible out of it.

34:10

Let's leave that global flood out of it and let's look at rock layers. And so, at that point, they started defining the rock layers based on what it's made out of.

34:18

Is it made of limestone or sandstone? But also by what fossils are actually in it. Now, there's a general trend.

34:24

The stuff at the bottom tends to be stuff that you'd find in the bottom of the ocean. And that actually makes sense in light of a global flood because the stuff at the bottom of the ocean is going to be the first stuff covered up.

34:35

It's going to be the first stuff buried, first stuff fossilized. None of that stuff's fleeing to higher ground. Now, as you go up through these different rock layers, we find different fossils.

34:46

Three of those layers contain dinosaurs. You've got your Triassic, Jurassic, and Cretaceous rock.

34:52

Now, in the secular world, they say those rock layers ended about 65 to 66 million years ago.

34:58

Now, of course, we're not looking at it that way. We're looking at it from a biblical viewpoint. They were still laid down during the flood of Noah's day.

35:05

Now, let's say you find a dinosaur, but in a rock layer that isn't one of those three rock layers.

35:11

Let's say Permian is just below it, or you've got Eocene that would be a couple layers above it, that Cretaceous rock layer.

35:20

Let's say you find a dinosaur in one of those. And you're like, hey, look, we found a dinosaur that's not in those three rock layers.

35:26

Here's what happens. They redefine that portion of that rock layer to be either

35:31

Cretaceous, Jurassic, or Triassic because it has a dinosaur in it. See, it's sometimes kind of arbitrary the way they define those rock layers because they define it by what's in it.

35:41

That sounds a little secular. I mean, it sounds circular, right? It is. It's exactly circular.

35:48

You define it's this layer because you find the dinosaur in it. But we know that the dinosaurs are that old because we find it in that layer.

35:57

Yes. Well, okay. So here was something that was found. It was published in one of the secular journals. They found a

36:03

T -Rex, and they found the jaw of a parrot. And they're essentially touching each other.

36:09

Now, that's a problem in the secular world because it's the dinosaurs that supposedly evolved into the birds in their story.

36:16

So they have those right there. So here's what they did. They drew a line between the two, and they said, well, this one's like 66 million years old.

36:23

This one's more modern. You see, that's the way they try to get around that sort of stuff. So there was an earthquake, and it just shifted down, right?

36:34

Right. Now, sometimes they'll try to use that excuse, but in this case, you couldn't see that from the fossils. Here was one that was really good.

36:41

They found a theropod dinosaur that had stomach contents. So in the stomach contents, you can see the old bones of what it had eaten for its last couple of meals there.

36:52

And they identified it as multiple birds. So that's a big problem because it's the theropods that supposedly evolved into birds.

36:59

And here you find this theropod with birds in its belly. And a lot of people are just like, oh, we didn't expect to find that.

37:07

But they couldn't really reinterpret that one so much. So, I mean, how would we as creationists then explain the fact that we even see these dinosaurs in the rock layers?

37:17

Why do we see them just in these three? Is there a way we could biblically and scientifically explain that?

37:26

Okay. Here's what it is. Those are laid down while the flood is going on.

37:32

Noah's floating above it with representative animals on board the ark. All the animals outside the ark, they're going to die.

37:38

And the Bible says that they all died. Right there in Genesis 7, by the 150th day, actually, all the land -dwelling, air -breathing animals had died.

37:45

A lot of these animals died or they're buried somewhere nearby. Sometimes they're transported. Sometimes they're fleeing to higher ground.

37:51

They all get caught up together and they get rapidly buried. Now, a lot of them probably rot and decayed, but those rock layers are from the flood of Noah's day.

38:01

And I would suggest they were probably by the 150th day is when they were being laid down or right around that time frame.

38:07

Now, if we see the rock layers, the theory that we hear from the seculars is that you'd have the sediment level off and harden, and then future sediment would come on top.

38:22

So the rock layers supposedly are very clearly delineated, very clearly laid out.

38:30

But have we ever been able to observe that that doesn't actually work that way, that we could see rock layers laid down, say, quickly?

38:42

Yeah, we do see examples of rock layer laid down quickly. In fact, you know, when you think of something like Mount St.

38:49

Helens, Mount St. Helens is a volcano in eastern Washington. It blew its top in 1980, went again in 1982.

38:56

And when it did, it actually laid down rock layers quickly, sometimes very fine rock layers too.

39:02

It happened quickly in just a matter of hours, sometimes by hot pyroplastic flows, we call that.

39:09

You know, they lay down in certain layers. Sometimes there's ash layers that came down on it. So a catastrophe can cause rock layers to form quickly.

39:19

So see, creationists and evolutionists, we actually largely agree on these rock layers. We agree that these rock layers are real.

39:24

We agree on the fossils that are in it. The difference is the interpretation of those different rock layers. And that's what it always comes down to.

39:32

The secularists insist these things were laid down slowly and gradually over millions and billions of years. But it can't come from a global flood in their worldview.

39:40

For example, if I were to go out and write a technical paper and submit it to Science Magazine or Nature, you know, one of the secular journals, and I'm arguing for a worldwide global flood, they would reject it out of hand and say, no, no, no, no, no.

39:53

We cannot have a global flood because it destroys the idea of millions of years. Now, if I turned around and wrote a paper on a massive flood that covered the entire surface of Mars, oh, sure, we'll take the paper.

40:07

Yeah, even though there's no water there. No liquid water found there. At least not that we're seeing, you know.

40:14

But, you know, the Earth is still covered with about 70 % of the flood water. We need to remember, it was very nice of the

40:20

Lord to give us 30 % back. It was very gracious of Him. But, you know, we need to remember the secular world's interpretations on this are wrong.

40:28

That's the problem. And so since their interpretations on the fossil layers are wrong, their interpretation of the dinosaurs are also wrong.

40:36

And start with the Bible. Makes sense. God made them. They were living at the same time as man. They died.

40:42

You know, we find all this evidence from the flood. They came off the ark. They've been dying out ever since.

40:48

You know, it's amazing because I remember watching Discovery Channel, and they were talking about the Grand Canyon.

40:54

And when you look at the evidence, they were showing how there is certain minerals at the top of the

41:01

Grand Canyon that they find in a lower part of the canyon. And so their argument is that water cut the canyon.

41:07

And now, granted, they always say it took a long time to do that, a little bit of water, a long amount of time.

41:13

But this Discovery Channel was saying it could have been a lot of water in a short period of time, and that would explain why you have these minerals on top and below.

41:23

And it was amazing because they were so quick to say, but it wouldn't have been a global worldwide flood. Right? This would have been local.

41:31

You had a lot of water in a desert. Just, like, it's the same thing you're saying with Mars, right?

41:37

There's no water there, right? This is a desert. By definition, a desert is lacking in water.

41:45

And so the claim is there was somehow a lot of water there that would have formed it, but they had to mention, but it's not a worldwide flood because they're looking at what the evidence says, but they don't want to accept the conclusion that it makes.

42:03

Yeah. Right. And that shows it's a worldview issue. You see, they're looking at the

42:09

Grand Canyon, they're looking at rocks, they're looking at dinosaurs from a different worldview. And when people look at things from a different worldview, guess what?

42:16

There's going to be conflicts in that. And big picture, God is always right. God knows everything.

42:22

God's always been there. God is the absolute authority on every single subject. And so when the world says, well, we don't want to believe

42:29

God, we don't want to believe the Bible, what they're doing is they're elevating their own thoughts to supersede God.

42:35

And that's actually fallacious. That is an arbitrary authority. There is no greater authority than God, so it is a faulty appeal -to -authority fallacy when they say, well,

42:44

I don't want to believe the Bible, I want to believe people. And it's just an arbitrary authority.

42:49

So it's a worldview issue. We need to get back to the right worldview, and we always need to get back to God and His Word then.

42:56

Let me mention this, and this will be a little bit of a diversion from your book Dinosaurs, sorry,

43:01

Dinosaurs, Dragons, and the Bible, but you work at Answers in Genesis. One of the things that folks may not realize, if you haven't been to the

43:09

Creation Museum, what is wrong with you? I mean, I could be wrong,

43:14

Bodie. I don't think you need to go to the Creation Museum to get to heaven, but why take the chance?

43:23

That's the way you put it. I'm ready to go to the museum now. I'm here, that's actually where my office is.

43:30

You know, there's not a single area of wasted space in the museum. That's my conclusion.

43:36

When you first walk in the museum, I didn't know this, even though I've been through the museum a bunch of times before this, but I remember going through the museum with Carl Kirby.

43:46

He used to work there at Answers in Genesis, and we're walking through. Even at that area where they have designed in case there's a line and it's raining, it's indoors.

43:54

It's very kind of Answers in Genesis to make sure that even if it's raining, you have this walkway to get to the tickets.

44:00

A lot of crowds do come through at times, buses and whatnot. As you're in there, it looks like it's just a wall of what looks like rock, and it's just design, but it's actually not.

44:16

People may not realize that, but there is one section as you get close to where the tickets are where you suddenly see rock layers, if that's what they are, we'll let

44:26

Bodhi tell us, but rock layers that suddenly curve down so that is something that I know before I just thought it was design.

44:37

It was just art, and Carl said, no, it's not. It was purposeful. You want to explain the history of that since we're talking rock layers?

44:46

It was fascinating to me. Yeah, it's actually modeled after some rock layers that actually bend and move and go like that.

44:53

Now, rock layers don't normally do that. And just for the listening audience, he put his hand down and up so it's a curve like a

45:01

V structure. I'm kind of going out on the screen here.

45:07

And I've seen things like this out at the Grand Canyon. I've actually got some pictures of Monument Fold. It almost makes a

45:13

V shape. And you're like, whoa, rocks don't do that. If you try to bend rock, it's going to crack and break.

45:21

There are several places like that, not just in the Grand Canyon, but different parts of the world. I've seen some out in the

45:26

Appalachian. Out in those mountains on that side of the country, where you've seen some go up, up and around, and then it keeps going.

45:37

And what it is, that's still soft sediment when it's being kinked and bent into place. And then it solidifies into solid rock, which shows that all those rock layers are being laid down at the same time, not separated by millions and billions of years.

45:51

So that's pretty powerful. And yeah, you walk right in the museum, and a lot of people walk right by and don't even notice it. I walked by it for years and didn't know it.

45:58

And that's why, it actually, I'll be honest with you, Bode, that time changed how

46:04

I walked through the museum. I mean, I've walked through the museum reading everything there is to read, but I didn't always pay attention to, well, the entranceway.

46:13

And I started to do that more and started asking questions. Why is this there?

46:19

And it's interesting because each time I get more and more detail.

46:24

Now, I will admit, just between you and I, I might get in trouble for this, but I do have a picture before the museum opened, when we went through with my family the first time.

46:36

And I do have a picture of my son with one of the decorations. And on one side, you see this animal, and it's all, it looks like an animal.

46:45

On the other side, it says, if you can read this, security's on their way. So I took a photo with my son. And I didn't find that funny that someone didn't finish the side that isn't going to be shown to people, but they decided to leave a little note.

47:00

I just thought that was too funny, and I had to capture the picture. Yeah, our artists have been brilliant here at what they do.

47:07

The detail that they do is amazing. So I encourage folks, go to the

47:14

Creation Museum. If you're going to go, you might as well get a double pass. Go to the museum, go to the

47:20

ARC. I will tell you that the museum planned two days there, because you can go outside, walk around.

47:28

There's so many things to see outside. There's even zip lines if you want to give the kids a break and if you have kids that don't like all the reading and museum types.

47:37

But I'll tell you, my son hated museums. He was, I think he was eight or nine years old the first time we went through, and he hated museums.

47:47

We went through the Creation Museum, and we were already trying to figure, okay, we'll kind of break it.

47:53

We actually went for three days to try to break it up, figuring he wasn't going to stay for all of it.

47:59

We went through much of the museum in a single day, and he was fine.

48:04

He was asking to go back the next day, and so we're like, okay, but they have the planetarium, so there's a lot of things you could do, just going outside, going to the planetarium, seeing some of the things, and it'll take a full day to walk through, especially if you're going to read everything.

48:22

So I would say take two days there. Take a day at the ARC, but be prepared to walk.

48:28

I'm just saying. It's not small. No. Our church youth group is headed out to the

48:34

ARC next month, and we have one person who is going to be with the youth, but not so good with walking, bad knees, and I said, get the scooter.

48:45

You're going to need it, and they were like, oh, I don't want to be in a scooter. I'm like, look, everybody's in a scooter.

48:52

I've gone through, okay, so you know who Justin Peters is. I went to the ARC with Justin, and he's in his scooter, and I joked with him.

48:59

I said, this is the first place I've ever been with you where you're outnumbered because you got the only scooter that's like yours.

49:05

Everyone else has the one provided by Insurgent Genesis. I mean, a lot of people do that because it is big.

49:13

That's the whole purpose of the ARC, to show you how big it is. There's not as much reading. It's more videos to do.

49:18

That takes a day to walk through, though, but I always encourage people with this. Start with the museum.

49:25

Spend two days there so that you read everything. You understand the background of what's going to be taught in the

49:32

ARC, but the big thing of the ARC is its size. There's a lot more videos, less to read than the museum, but if you do the

49:40

ARC first, I know people that did this. I had a friend of mine went out. He didn't listen. They went to the ARC first, and they only did one day at the museum because the next day they sat in the hotel because they were shot.

49:54

It was too much walking, so I encourage them to do the museum first.

50:01

Make sure when you get to the ARC, you're like, okay, let's start my walk. How many steps am I going to get in?

50:06

Oh, you're going to get a lot in. You'll get a lot in. It's huge, and you go back and forth on each deck.

50:14

If you go out, there's a zoo back behind it. We've been expanding the zoo, so you can go out through there.

50:20

By the end of the day at the ARC, I've seen a lot of people just sitting there like, oh, boy, that was amazing, but their legs are shot.

50:28

They're not ready for it. At the zoo, they have, what are those animals that your father -in -law always talks about?

50:35

The kangaroos? Yes. We have an area with the kangaroos.

50:43

My wife's from Australia, and when we were down in Australia, there's places you can go and actually pet and feed the kangaroos, and we're like, we need to do that.

50:51

Of course. You do. I don't remember if I've seen kangaroos live before, maybe at a zoo, but you walk right through where the kangaroos are.

51:02

They tell you not to pet them, but they're just sitting there. They're right there.

51:07

Yes. We were going to do that with crocodiles. No, that wouldn't have been a good idea.

51:13

Why not? I had a friend in college who had a crocodile. It was maybe six inches long, but when it got to be about a foot and a half, two feet, it wasn't good for a college dorm room.

51:28

He, in his infinite wisdom, decided to release it into, he just threw it into the lake that the school had.

51:38

Other than the fact that it ate probably all the fish that was in this lake, because it was a lake that doesn't get restocked, but there were some fish in there, but yeah,

51:47

I think they eventually found it and killed it. Oh my. Crocodiles are not meant to be pets, just saying.

51:54

But a lot of people do think that crocodiles and alligators are a form of dinosaur.

52:02

So getting back to dinosaurs, dragons, and the Bible, do we have modern day dinosaurs?

52:10

Now remember, you've got to go back to the definition. The definition of a dinosaur had one of those two hip structures and they're called lizard hip and bird hip, by the way.

52:18

So you can see where they want to do the bird. The funny thing is, what has the bird hip are things like the stegosaur.

52:25

You know, it doesn't, those are not what they said evolved into birds. They say theropods, which have the lizard hip.

52:32

But yeah, those are the ones that stand upright. Now it's interesting though, the word dragon oftentimes does include creatures like a crocodile.

52:40

So if you think of that overarching term dragon, yeah, that would include creatures like a leviathan, a plesiosaurus, and flying reptiles and dinosaurs, but also crocodiles.

52:53

But dinosaurs, very specific. So it's just one of two types of hip structures that really raise the body up.

53:00

So yeah, we could say we have modern day dragon. They think, oh wow, this reminds me of a dinosaur.

53:07

And there probably are similarities because they're both reptiles. But yeah, they're definitely different. So do we have any evidence that humans and dinosaurs were together?

53:18

Because I think if we had that evidence, that should be compelling to argue for what we would argue for a younger earth.

53:26

And not a young earth, as Paul Taylor says, 6 ,000 years is a really long time, but a younger earth than they would argue.

53:34

Do we have examples maybe in the Bible or in fossil record that we could have humans and dinosaurs together?

53:42

Yeah. I mean, if you start with the Bible, a lot of people point to Job chapter 40, which as you go through the entire chapter, the entire chapter just gives us description of a creature that is called behemoth.

53:52

And its description just is so reminiscent of something like a sauropod dinosaur. This is a massive creature.

53:58

It eats grass like an ox. It's got a tail that moves like a cedar. So I mean, it's a massive creature.

54:05

It's made alongside Job. And I mean, it goes from mountains to the marsh and amongst the reeds and the lotus trees, hardly give it shade.

54:13

This is some sort of massive creature. A lot of people think that might be a dinosaur. Of course, there are a lot of things that we find out in the world that is pretty good evidence of man and dinosaurs together.

54:27

And these are called petroglyphs. Think cave drawings and etchings and so forth. People have been etching animals all over the world.

54:34

And in my book, there's a whole chapter here that looks at some of these. Some of these creatures look just like dinosaurs.

54:40

One of my favorite ones is over at Carlisle Cathedral. A man named Bishop Bell died around the year 1500. He's buried in the church.

54:47

I'm glad we don't bury people in the church anymore, but there's a brass thing that goes along the outside of his grave right there on the floor.

54:54

And if you zoom up to it and you get up there really close, you can take pictures of all sorts of little animals that are etched into that.

55:00

And you'd readily recognize those animals. Then you get to a couple that look just like dinosaurs. So I mean, that's just one of many examples.

55:06

But we find these in various parts all over the world, and it really is amazing. I think those are great confirmations of man and dinosaurs at the same time.

55:15

So Bodie, as we wrap up, we're discussing your book Dinosaurs, Dragons, and the Bible. Bodie Hodge, you can get it at Masters Books or at Answers in Genesis.

55:25

The thing that I end up seeing with this is a lot of people think of dinosaurs as for kids.

55:33

And so as we wrap up with a last question for you is, why does this become important for us who are believers?

55:42

You know, us as believers, we need to be standing on the Bible. And we want to see people trust in Jesus Christ as their

55:48

Lord and Savior. We want to see the gospel progressed. And with that, there's actually a connection between people going, hey, the

55:55

Bible is true, the gospel found in the Bible is true, as well as the message of dinosaurs. Like we've been saying this whole episode, people have been influenced, thinking dinosaurs are connected to an evolutionary worldview.

56:08

When people start with the Bible, it makes sense of dinosaurs. It makes sense of dragons. It helps the Bible come alive to people.

56:14

It helps them realize, hey, the Bible is true when it comes to the subject of dinosaurs. And because the

56:20

Bible is true when it comes to dinosaurs, the Bible is also true when it comes to the saving gospel of Jesus Christ.

56:25

So there is a reason for that. And I'm right up front about that. I'm not just here to say, hey, I'm telling you about some cool moral stuff or some neat things about dinosaurs.

56:34

I want to see people wonder, Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I'm right up front about that. And folks, this is a thing that you're going to find different with Answers in Genesis.

56:41

A lot of people view Answers in Genesis as, well, when we talk here on Apologetics Live on my other podcast about apologetics, many in the audience know the difference between presuppositional apologetics, which

56:53

I would hold, versus evidential apologetics. And many people think that Answers in Genesis is evidential apologetics.

57:02

The reality, though, is I want you to hear what Bodhi just said because that is a major difference.

57:09

I had a young man, he actually worked here where I lived in, he worked in Princeton once, once a year

57:18

CERN would do, they had their Princeton labs where they do these experiments.

57:24

And if you're not familiar with CERN, that's okay. But it's a big scientific, very few people can get in to do that research.

57:30

You have to have a Ph .D. in physics and other things. And it's really very, very elite people.

57:39

And he was one of them that worked there without a Ph .D. So he was a very bright individual. He didn't like Answers in Genesis.

57:46

And I asked him why. He said, well, you know, I just don't think we should be approaching things to try to argue from science to prove to people that God exists.

57:57

And I said, but that's not Answers in Genesis' purpose. They prove to Christians that are being attacked by the world that God doesn't exist by all this supposed evidence.

58:07

And they say, no, look, here we can explain the Bible very easily and scientifically.

58:12

So what Answers in Genesis' goal is, is not to prove the world wrong as much as it is to prove the

58:20

Bible right. And so it is a presuppositional approach which people don't understand because they look at it as just all this evidence.

58:29

But the evidence is not being provided for unbelievers. The evidence is being provided for believers to know the

58:36

Bible is true when inundated by the world.

58:41

And so I really think that the major shift people have to understand is that I don't think Answers in Genesis is an evangelistic ministry as much as a discipling ministry.

58:53

And that makes a major difference because if it's evangelistic, then you're reaching out to the world with all the evidence. But if it's discipling, you're trying to say to believers, look, the

59:01

Bible is true. We can support this both biblically and scientifically. There's no reason to question the

59:09

Bible you have in your hand when the evolutionists come along and make up fairy tales.

59:14

Yes, fairy tales, because when you believe a frog can become a prince, that's actually a fairy tale.

59:21

When you believe in magical bangs that go boom and go from nothing to everything, that's a fairy tale.

59:28

Actually, that's magic. Yeah. So the reality is that's not our worldview that has these things.

59:35

It's theirs. But Bode, I appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you writing the book. I think it's going to be very helpful for the church at large to be able to communicate the truths about what we hear from the world about dinosaurs and what we see in the

59:50

Bible. So thank you for coming on. I'll give you any last words that you would like to share. No, not really.

59:57

God bless you guys. Keep up the great work there. And, you know, we are a presubstantial ministry.

01:00:02

We start with God and His word to look at all aspects of reality. Any piece of evidence, we want to start with the

01:00:08

Bible to look at it. And that is a great method to do, and I want to encourage people to do that. All right. So, folks, go get your copy of Dinosaurs, Dragons, and the

01:00:17

Bible by Bode Hodge. Like I said, you can get it at Masters Books. You can get it at—

01:00:22

I'm sure you can get it on Amazon. You can get it at— Actually, I'll tell you what. Anson Justice. I'll tell you what.

01:00:28

And also to make it easier, folks, I will put a link in our store at Striving for Eternity. I'll link that book so you can get it right from there to get it at Amazon.

01:00:38

So I'll put that on our site as well so that folks can pick that up from Amazon. So, Bode, I appreciate you coming in.

01:00:46

It's always a joy. You are a wealth of knowledge, and I do hope to be back out your way soon.

01:00:53

I try to get out there every year, but I don't have a plan right now. But I am trying to work on a trip to Ohio, and whenever I do that,

01:01:00

I kind of try to swing down your way. So hope to be out there and see you soon in person again.

01:01:07

You bet. God bless you, brother. God bless. And, folks, with that, as we say here, that's a wrap.

01:01:13

This podcast is part of the Striving for Eternity ministry. For more content or to request a speaker or seminar to your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

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