Christians in Australia

Apologia Studios

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So, I think one of the interesting things to know, both in American culture and in Australian culture is, and really with any culture that was once started by Christians or with the

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Christian worldviews in the atmosphere, when you look at how those cultures have abandoned their foundations now, you don't just get things like the culture of death, but you also get a much bigger government, like we say, you know, we don't want

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God's law and so it becomes man's law, it becomes tyrannical, rules over every single little detail of life.

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That's one of the things I've noticed even about Sydney, Brisbane, is just the level of government control.

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Like a crack in the sidewalk. Right. You can film here, which is three feet away from here.

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Interesting. Yeah. But yeah. I think it speaks to the task of Christians at hand who may live in Australia, places like Sydney, Brisbane, the cities that we've been to, they have a task ahead of them because here in Australia, it's unlike the

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United States in that you have kind of even a cultural Christianity difference. Like in America, back home, even if you don't necessarily, aren't able to articulate the gospel and know things about Jesus, there's still that cultural, nominal

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Christianity. Right. But here, that doesn't exist. Right. It's just secularized, it's man's law, man's at the center, and I think if Christians really want to make an impact here, in their presentation of the gospel, they can't begin at the cross.

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They have to begin at the garden. They have to go back and tell the story of God as he's revealed it, and him being the source, the origin, the foundation, the

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Bible says, for from him and through him and to him are all things. And I think that if Christians in Australia can get back to clearly communicating the biblical narrative of creation,

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God creating man in his image, male and female, the commission in the garden, because you mentioned centralization, right, the state wanting to have ultimate authority.

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If God's not at the center of that picture, then man will undoubtedly place himself at the center of that picture when you have competing narratives of history.

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You have the worldview that all we are is just matter in motion, that mankind is really no different from any other creature.

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They're just part of the interdependence of all things in nature, right? And in that worldview, nature, even our very bodies, aren't the handiwork of a designer, a good creator

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God, who commissions us for his purposes, who calls us to reflect his image and his glory into the world, and having that title of vice -regent or exercising creative dominion over God's creation, not rebelliously, but in accordance with God's revealed standard as his children.

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When you remove that, you have a hostile creation. You have something that is in need of being controlled and manipulated.

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And so man has to exercise that level of control because creation is no longer the handiwork of a loving

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God. It's a hostile environment in which man has to surmise his 10 ,000 commandments rather than God's 10 commandments in order to control and exercise his dominion over, because it's hostile to man.

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And so you must be in control. You must have man at the center with centralized governance. There has to be a sovereign.

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There has to be a Lord. And if Christians can communicate that story, get back to the garden, get back to what we lost, and then, of course, what

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Christ comes in to restore and to reconcile and to bring back to man, I think some progress can be made.

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It's interesting being here. Look at America, because we live there, and it's a fight we have to fight and be a part of.

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So we're looking at our culture and the places that are falling off and what we have to do to work the gospel into all that stuff.

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But when I look at, actually, Sydney, Brisbane, I look at the level of control of the government and see where the culture seems to be in terms of abandonment of God and just completely humanist, secular,

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I think there's a very, very large mountain to climb in Australia. I think in some ways they're worse off than us, which is saying a lot.

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And that's not to say anything to denigrate the Australian church or Australian people. It's just to say there's such a secularization and humanism inherent in everything that I think that they have a huge mountain to climb.

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I think you're right. It's got to go back to the basics, foundation, who's the sovereign, who's the creator, what's unique about you as an image -bearer of God, what's the foundation for ethics, oh, and now that we've got that, let's talk about how fallen you are and how you need

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Jesus. And then from there, I just think it's, with our ministry, we're big believers in the gospel of God's grace, the gospel of the kingdom, we believe that Christ is going to be victorious in history through regenerating people, saving people all over the world.

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And we believe ultimately that as people are saved, their hearts are changed and then they love God's law. So as you change a culture through the gospel, they begin to love

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God's law and start to employ it all over the place.

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So when I look at a place like Australia, and of course we're in a mess too, but Australia, it just seems like so many of those foundations that are necessary to really begin building are just not there.

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So as we talk about ending abortion in Australia, I'm looking around and I'm thinking, you know,

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I think if you did a poll across the United States and you said, who wants to ban abortion right now?

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I think we would win. Even the nominal Christians, you know, Mormons, Muslims.

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That reflects accurately. I think that we would, if it was by a vote of the people, I think abortion would actually be illegal.

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I don't feel the same about here. Yeah, I wouldn't have that confidence. Yeah, I know where we were at last night, and I don't want to say that all of Australia or even all of Sydney is like what we were talking yesterday, where we were walking around.

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It was like blatantly godless, and they were like proud of it. And you know, Zach, you were saying there's like no vestiges of Christianity.

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We joked, but it's for real, like the only vestige was a sign that said Church Street. There was nothing else.

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Yeah. You know, it was like they were just like braggadocious almost about how much they hate

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God. Everywhere. Everybody. And it was, yeah, I think you're right. They got a long ways to go.

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Which we know there's definitely solid people in the Australian church, a solid movement in the

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Australian church, but it does culturally. This is my second time in Australia and in New Zealand.

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It does seem culturally that there's just a much greater secularization. Yeah. And I guess that's saying a lot because in America it is,

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I mean, it just seems total in many ways. But I don't know. It just seems like there's a much larger, they're at a stage where there's already more government sovereignty, government control, a hatred for the things of God.

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You know, it's just, it's just interesting to see where they're at. So I feel, I really feel like this is the beginning for the

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Australian church in terms of bringing the gospel into conflict with abortion, working to communicate the authority of Jesus in the legislature.

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I really feel like they're at the very, very seed of all this.

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We may be just a little sprout out of the ground, but I think they're at that seed stage where so much of the

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Australian church needs to be woken up to the fact that this is about the gospel and you had better suffer and you had better fight because that's where you have to begin at that stage.

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Hashtag woke. Hashtag, hashtag woke church. That's a great point. You can't fight humanism and paganism with more humanism and worldly wisdom.

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You have to fight it with the revelation of scripture and that's what Christians here need to stand on.

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And you said it, I mean, the gospel, the changing of people's hearts, the love that gets put into their hearts when they become children of God, the desire for God's law and his will to be done in all of society, that change of the hearts happens through the gospel.

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Hearts are reoriented towards true worship of God rather than worship of the created things.

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And as a result of that, societies and cultures change back to God. There's a production of the things which

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God loves and values, culture of life, a big word but cosmology, an order, a structure of life that's built and designed around God and his word and that reflects in the law.

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So I think if Christians here can focus on clearly communicating what makes the good news good.

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Why is the gospel of the kingdom? Why is the gospel of God's rule in the world?

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How is that good news for a culture that is just steeped in man -centeredness?

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Well, that's critical. I like how you said that. You put it in terms of the gospel of the kingdom. I really feel like that's one of the essential parts that both our nation and Australia and New Zealand need to learn is the good news of the kingdom.

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Ask the average Christian that. In America or Australia, say, what's good news about the kingdom?

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I'm guessing. I think most of them would probably think through it and go, that we get to go to heaven one day. That God's kingdom is the destination for us.

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But that's just not what the Old Testament or New Testament say about the kingdom of God. It's a very present reality. It's here. It's here. Jesus brought it.

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Jesus is bringing people into it now. It doesn't mean going to heaven one day. It means right now. That's the thing, right?

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What's good news about God's rule? It applies to Sydney and their legislature. The rule of Jesus is good news because he will rule over your legislature with wisdom, power, justice, through his word.

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That's good news. Complete sovereignty. If you look at the Gospel of Mark, Jesus shows up on the scene, repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

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The time is fulfilled. This is the time. It's at the fingertip reach right now. The question is, what is the kingdom without the king?

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The king and the gospel of the good news of the kingdom is that the king has come. Because living in light of that knowledge of the king coming, repent and believe.

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Believe in the good news that changes hearts, that changes minds, and ultimately leads to the change in society, the change in the production of righteous laws that protect the unborn, that value the gender distinctions between male and female, that honors marriage and everything that produces a culture of life.

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Those are the things in society that need protection. In a society like this, those are the things that are having the most protections removed because of the culture of death.

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And even though it's beautiful, even though it's glorious, and it bears the handiwork of its creator, it has a darkness to it.

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And that darkness is something that can only be broken into by the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ Jesus.

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So the culture of death will end in our nation and in this one, and in everyone, first with repentance.

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Yes, you're right. So there's no culture of death going away until there's repentance. That's right. Yes, a change of mind.