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After show debate, Mary Intercession
So let's see I have to keep talking here a little bit and while I'm updating the site after show There we go. I could do the link so people can come in and talk if they want and that'll be right there and There's that I'll update that one and I'm gonna get another link and oh I didn't do the rumble one right so it won't be in there.
Okay remove from the rumble and Save changes so end stream. Nope. Don't do that. Let's go to the videos and I'll put that on. So hopefully people can see it. Hold on. I know I'm talking here and then I have to use a restroom.
So and then this is YouTube. Right there, and I'll give some people time to come in and then we can talk a little bit. Maybe if someone comes in I'll use the restroom right there. All right, so They're now it's updating on the upcoming debates for tonight after show and the stream yard.
You can actually come in and participate in and then you can watch it on on.
On.
On YouTube and you can comment there, too. All right, so. Having said that oh man. I hope someone comes in that. I know it's like it's the restroom. And we'll see. In fact, I just got to be I'll be sure so I'll be right back.
Okay, I'll be dead here dead air. But hold on come on in you guys come on in Adjustment here on The settings so that we can get to this in this room. Oh, it is there. No, it's not. Yeah, it is. Oh good.
Oh, it is good test one two. All right, come on in Joanne if you want and. Okay. Okay, so I'm getting feedback from Joanne so when Joanne you come on in you can just. You can. I don't wait. Wait, why is it?
In the mix Mike's muted. So it shouldn't be a feedback. Bill cubitus. Hey Bill, how you doing, buddy? I'm doing good. Good. We could barely see you. I always use your forehead.
Yeah, well, I don't want to you don't want to see me. Trust me. Yeah, that's it. Come on. Let's see.
Come on, you know a regular face here. Come on. No. Okay, they get that whoo.
He kept on using extra biblical reference. Church fathers. He rarely went to the Bible.
This is what Catholics do. Yeah, that's right. I'm sorry, Bill. Could you repeat that? I would get a little distracted. I want to make sure I understood you properly.
Go ahead, but he kept on using extra biblical references churchfathers traditions.
Now it's possible that we had a misunderstanding of stuff. I'll talk to Dave about that. We'll get at the bottom of it but it's taught me though that we have to have an absolutely agreed on debate topic and definitions need to be offered by the.
That we agree on that has to happen. And if it's not going to happen that we're just not going to do it because it causes problems and. You're getting a feedback echo. Remy says I don't hear any feedback echo.
You know, I could do is take this off and go to just the the microphone up there. Maybe that'll solve it. So, how about if I do that? Okay, let me try that really fast. It's just see and.
There we put that and then I'll do This. Okay, can you hear me? Okay. Can you hear me bill? Yes. Yes. Okay good. That's better.
I'll just do that. That sounds. Is it sound? Okay. It's not a good.
Which sounds better this or the headset this right here. Oh, okay. All right well. Wow. He was rude interruptive condescending. He needs a moderator and moderator would have gone into him and said no you have to answer the questions.
You can't just start preaching and going on to the point. You're like, okay, we're done. We're just done. I can't even have a conversation with the guy because he's gonna tell everybody what he has to say about everything else.
It's just not what you do in a debate and it was it was really bad. Let me see get here. Head to the stage. Okay, come on. You got to unmute yourself there Joanne because I'm trying to unmute you. Unmute and it won't unmute.
I think you've got to do it on your end. Can't unmute your guests because they chose to mute themselves. So, you know, it was also interesting was he said things like I know you're frustrated. I know that you know this.
I know that you can answer but what? He kept doing that that's not what you do in a debate, you know, and it was just really bad. And they were so arrogant and then when I start preaching the gospel, I put the gospel in there for him.
You know and start talking about it. Did you see what happened? So many of them started mocking the gospel.
Wow.
It was really something. If you're on a free microphone, it might be picking up your speakers. Joanne. Go ahead.
Sorry, that's because they're a god. They hate the gospel.
Wow, they loved it really.
It did gospel according to Rome.
Yeah, there's the gospel according to Rome, um, and you know, you'll also notice this that uh, There we go that um. He said I didn't know christology.
Okay.
Because when I said you don't know this he said he does. Oh, yeah, and he tried to defend himself. Let's talk christology. He doesn't know christology. He does not know what he thinks he knows. So yeah, that was bad.
Is this what a cult is? Sonic. Yes, it's that. Those are typical of cult, uh behaviors condemnation mockery. And what I try to do is give them scripture. You know to be gentle to be this to be that he certainly was not.
And they certainly were not. They're representing catholicism. They're not representing christianity.
See, I don't want to.
I go.
Have you kept a little shot at him? This is inquisitive. Hinting to the inquisition what the catholic church did.
Yeah, I always ask the catholics. Have you kept the ten commandments for salvation? Well, no, no, but if we don't we go to confession. Okay, as soon as you're done with confession you go back and break into ten commandments.
It's a circle thing. It's like chasing a tail. And they haven't kept ten commandments because no one has. Jesus has that's the only one. But they must it's obligated they obligated to keep the ten commandments.
Paragraph 2068 the catholic catechism. Is this as important as faith and baptism? Yeah, and they think baptism is necessary for salvation. But in acts 10 44 through 48 the believers were saved before baptism.
And they always quote mark 16 16 now baptism says well. Read on. They just quote half the verse they won't quote the whole verse.
Yeah, that's a difficult area to go to in that because it's there's textual variants there that are pretty serious but um yeah, it's uh, it's really something and um I thought uh, I thought he did really badly and what was interesting was the arrogance, uh on his part.
The arrogance he didn't understand logic. He didn't understand debate, uh things he was getting in and interrupting. He was rude he was condescending. I was like, come on. There's oh, I mean now we need a moderator.
I gotta have moderation all all discussions debates. I thought he was mature enough to handle it, but. Uh, he wasn't. Sonic, could you please show me where john calvin said baptism was required for salvation?
Can you show me the documentation for that? I'd like to see that if you got that, okay. So if you got it show it to me, um.
I can see it. Okay, you know and even though john calvin talked that We always go back to act 1711 Check out the scriptures Where everybody says even even matt even james white Everybody We just don't take the.
I don't think he he said that it was required to be saved. I don't believe that's the case. But if it is I could be wrong, but show it to me now.
I'll just say for a little bit if nobody else comes in or whatever. Um, No big deal. I'm looking at uh. What's happening? Oh, I think uh, I think the all of the yeah all of the stuff from car the uh, YouTube videos coming into here.
So into this I can see everything as it was said. It was a sad debate. I thought I understood the concept of debate clearly you were wrong. That's right. Laura. Yeah, he was bad.
That's why I said.
You get this from sam. That's sam's technique. He just just rolls right over you just dominate just Insult, it just jumps right. That's not how you do debate. Okay.
Yeah.
Well.
You know, and if you disagree with sam, he'll kick you off stage.
Yeah, sam. He's got some problems. Uh, he does. Yeah, he does. Yeah, because I mean he's affirming the roman catholic church, which is heretical. Oh, I forgot I was gonna do this. Oh, I forgot I was gonna do this.
Um I will. What i'll do is I'll share my screen and show you the quotes about mary and they're demonic. Okay. So hold on. And i'll get to him. I said i'm gonna do that. That's why I forgot I was gonna do that.
So.
Uh.
All right, what i'm gonna do this is from my notes so hold on what am I to remember you. Window let's do this. Let's do that. I think that's it. All right, there we go, okay. So what i'm going to do is increase that size.
So you guys can see it. All right now i'm going to get to it a little bit but check this out. This the catholic quotes, uh about the litany of loretto and this is just good. I mean check this out. This litany to the blessed virgin mary is composed during the middle ages the place of honor, etc.
The litany titles and invocations set before us. Mary's exalted privileges.
All right.
Of her life holy life, uh. Amiability power her motherly spirit. The principle Has been followed here. Uh. Let me get this right here. The ones that Don't like to need that the principle that has been followed in their interpretation is the one enunciated by blessed pious, uh.
The ninth god enriched her so wonderfully from the treasury of his divinity far beyond all angels and saints with the abundance of all heavenly gifts that she Should show forth in such fullness of innocence and holiness, etc, etc.
Uh. 53 titles given to mary Mother of god virgin of virgins mother of christ mother of the church mother of mercy mother of divine grace mother of hope Of she's the most pure most chaste inviolate undefiled most amiable Admirable good counselor mother of our creator mother of our savior Approved most prudent venerable renowned it goes on and on look at it.
Single vessel of devotion. Are you kidding me. A mystical rose tower of david? A tower of ivory house of gold arc of the covenant gate of heaven. Morning star just. They're idolaters. They're idolaters.
Now, all right.
Um.
Now check this out. All right, here we go. Now notice i'm going to give six quotes. And notice the progression of the quotes. In 1531 guadalupe mexico. Appearance to juan diego. These are the words of the apparition.
Now, these are official. The catholic church investigated and says it really was mary so it's official.
So let's take a look at them. This is what it says the apparition. That's why I call it apparition said. No, no for sure my dearest littlest and youngest son. I am the perfect and ever virgin holy mary.
She's perfect. Oh interesting. Okay and then later I am truly your merciful mother. Yours and all the people of the earth who live united in this land and of all the other people of different ancestries.
My lovers who love me. Who those who seek me those who trust in me. Here I will hear their weeping their complaints and heal all their sorrows hardships and sufferings. Now check that out. Those who love her.
Seek her. Trust in her. She will hear you. We heal your weeping or hear your weeping. And complaints and heal all your sorrows hardships and sufferings. Can we say goddess. How about this one? And uh.
Let's see. Oh man, I hate when that little thing comes up. Here we go. Oh, you can't see it on the screen. On my screen a little window comes up. I have to move it around. That's why i'm doing it twice a highlight.
It doesn't show through. All right. Am I not here I who am your mother? Are you not under my shadow and protection? Am I not the source of your joy? Are you not in the hall of my mantle in the crossing of my arms?
Do you need anything more? But nothing else. Where are you disturb you? Mary is saying do you need anything more than me?
The catheters couldn't I mean you I guess see them on the table, you know in the room going, uh, Mr. Pope, uh. You know, I got this question about this, uh this apparition.
It says, uh. That we're under the her shadow of protection that she's the source of our joy. That we're in the hollow of her mantle in the crossing of her arms and then implies we don't need anything more than her uh.
What about jesus here? I was just wondering, you know. What leaf or you'll be. Oh, what's the word s communicate? Would you just say? Oh, okay. I'm gone. I can just see the dialogue going on. All right now.
So this is obviously demonic. All right, because anybody who's in heaven in the presence of the glorious king Will bear witness of the glory of the lord. Jesus. That's what's going to happen. All right.
Now in.
1917 In portugal and something really did happen there people were tracking with their eyes crowds. They're seeing stuff. Okay. So it says in 1917. On may 13th, which is interesting 13th number of sin, but whatever the apparition says.
It says are you willing to offer yourselves to god to bear all the sufferings? He wants to send you as an act of reparation. For the sins by which he's offended and for the conversion of sinners. What.
Wait, excuse me, excuse me. So the apparition says you're willing to offer yourself to god to bear all the sufferings. He wants to send you and this is an act of reparation for the sins that he's offended by.
You know, in other words you make the sins that you've committed against god right by your sufferings. The word here appropriate is blasphemy. Jesus is the one who did this. Jesus is the one who bore our sins in his body in the cross.
It was jesus. It was not mary. Who is the one who? Did that and it certainly is not from her. Uh truly that willing to offer yourselves to god for the sufferings as an act of reparation for the sins that offends him.
That's not biblical. Biblical. But you see notice what the like this guy did tonight. Well, we don't just trust those scriptures. We trust tradition because then. Anything goes. Because that's what it is.
Anything goes. This is uh the next apparition. It says this I will take hacinta and francisco shortly and they did die quickly after that, but you will stay here for some time to come. Jesus wants to use you to make me known in love.
He wishes to establish the devotion to my immaculate heart throughout the world. I promise salvation. To whoever embraces it these souls will be dear to god like flowers put by me to adorn his throne.
So now this apparition says jesus wants to make mary. No, it's about mary. Then I lift mary up. He wants mary to be known. And and you've got to establish devotion to her Immaculate heart devote to the the the attitude the heart the purity of mary.
And mary this apparition says I promise salvation to whoever does this. This is just a false gospel. It's a false gospel and here's the last one. What you want to comment? Go ahead. Oh, it's thematic.
Oh, yeah. It's demonic. Yeah, they can. This one. Sacrifice yourselves for sinners and say often to jesus, especially whenever you make a sacrifice. Oh jesus it is for the love of thee for the conversion of sinners and in reparation for the sins committed against the immaculate heart of mary.
So now you have to do Reparation of sins you have to make an atonement. Because now you've sinned against mary. So you got to fix it with mary. This is demonic.
It's just demonic and check this out. These are the notes I put in here. Jesus bears witness of himself. The works Jesus works bear witness of himself. The father bears witness of jesus. The holy spirit bears witness of jesus.
The multitudes bear witness of jesus. The prophets bear witness of jesus. The scriptures bear witness of jesus. The father will honor us if we serve jesus. The father wants us to fellowship with jesus.
The father tells us to listen to jesus. What does the apparition do. Jesus wants to use you to make me known and loved. He wishes To establish a devotion to my immaculate heart throughout the world. I promise salvation to whoever embraces it.
And yet the scriptures teach to the contrary. Obviously the roman catholic church is apostate. It teaches a false mary. She is a functioning goddess you'll notice. I said that several times tonight and he picked up on it.
He tried to say it's not a functioning god. But yes, she is. She hears the prayers of millions of people all over the world simultaneously spoken thought he does that. I mean, she says he does she he says she could do that.
That's a goddess ability. That's what goddesses can do. That's what goddesses do. How's she not a goddess? You know. And It's just it's really bad this Bostonian roman catholic said to me that I will be sorry and i'll bow to mary.
That isaiah writes to god. I'm says i'm the lord and my glory will not share with another. Isaiah 42 8 we bear we bow before the lord. Let me tell you something and i'm not using my experience As proof of anything so don't anybody say that.
I'm saying this is how I know this what the truth is matt's experience. He's raising his experience about scripture. I'm not doing any of that people often say that but i'm going to just tell you That when I was in the occult and I got saved when I got saved it was an incredibly Incredibly, um Just profound experience of the holiness of god.
And.
I was reduced to just.
Sobbing tears.
Of repentance And presence of holiness. It was incredible. I've never experienced anything like it before or since. And I remember that so well, I had no choice but to weep to moan to almost vomit. But I didn't the puking sin of my heart and soul face to the ground wailing In the presence of god.
That's what was going on. And I think it's in isaiah 6. I think it's isaiah 6. Let's see if I can find it. Okay, i'm gonna find this where I think it. I'll put isaiah Uh be gone from me a man of Unclean lips.
Here we go. Okay. Uh. This is yeah, I was right.
Listen to this. This is isaiah 6 1. I want to read this to you. Okay, and there's a reason i'm doing this from scripture. In the year of king. Uzziah's death. I saw the lord sitting on a throne Lofty and exalted with the train of his robe filling the temple.
Seraphim stood above him each having six wings with two. He covered his face and with two he covered his feet and with two he flew. And one called out to another and said holy holy holy is the lord of hosts.
The whole earth is full of his glory. And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out while the temple was filling with smoke. Then I said listen to this. Woe to me. I am ruined.
Because I am a man of unclean lips. And I live among the people of unclean lips for my eyes have seen the king of the lord of hosts. And one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal in his hand.
Which had taken from the altar the tongues and touched my mouth with it. Behold, this has touched your lips and your iniquity is taken away. Your sin is forgiven and notice what happens. He's in the presence in the presence of god all of his majesty and what does he say he says.
He said woe to me. I'm ruined. I'm a man of unclean lips in the presence of god's holiness. That's all you do. You just can't take it. Notice what he says i'm ruined. I'm a man of unclean lips. He's he recognizes his failure and his condemnation.
That's what happened in the presence of god's holiness. If mary was really appearing. And she was really in heaven and appearing on earth. She'd be glorying in the lord. Jesus christ. She'd be talking about his glory.
She'd be talking about what he says. Because the last thing I think she recorded saying i'm not sure is whatever he says to you. Do it. I think that was the last one. Maybe i'm wrong, but That's important for us to understand.
That.
What this these apparitions of the roman catholic church can't even distinguish between demonic manifestations. And the fact that this these apparitions are pointing to its themselves For glory and they're putting themselves for redemptive work and uh and stuff and sins against the the apparitions.
This is demonic manifestation. It's not of god. It's not scripture. So anyway, okay.
So what's going on in the chat room here. I'll just move this over here.
There we go.
Um. Oh.
If anybody else wants to come in the room really fast great if not, that's okay. And uh, I know that the catholics think I lost. But uh, that didn't happen. He was not able to establish in scripture that uh, mary intercedes first.
And he wasn't able to do it necessarily. And so he couldn't do it and uh, we had a discussion. When he wants to say he wouldn't only do the scripture. I remember very clearly talking to dave kimball who set this up.
That he wanted to use the church fathers and stuff. I said I said very clearly I was in the kitchen downstairs. Remember this nope. I will not do that. I won't debate these church father things. It's got to be scripture.
It was okay. And then so from there, that's what it was supposed to be. So I don't trust him. Uh as actors representing what really happened that's certainly possible though that there was a mistaken connotation.
But we're going to make sure that that's never going to happen again. Uh, and then you future debates i'm going to have. Uh, we pray to mary the saints in jesus name. Uh in case you'd be you'd be case to help pierce the hell.
Um, you pray to mary. That's right. And then you you you are appealing to a functioning goddess if you do that with priesthood trinity. If you say you pray to mary. And all the saints then you're here.
You're using her and then this functioning gods and goddesses. Look, the the spirit of god. There's what's christ. It doesn't tell you to go to the saints and pray to them.
It doesn't do that.
And feast and trinity. What do you do with these quotes if you're a catholic? I assume you are from this reading the text. What do you get these quotes and apparently denied? I mean, it's just really simple.
It's there.
Yeah, it was remy, uh, he said he was pretty much a debate. Why don't you guys if you want to come in the room and say you're here? But you thought the debate was and how it went i'll give you my opinion quote type it in the text here.
I thought he did very badly. I thought he was very rude. He's condescending. He didn't know that. Uh wasn't able to stick with the debate rules. He uh was insulting. Uh, and he claimed victory when we're in crosses down.
It was supposed to happen as I asked the questions and then he answers them. And uh, he asked questions and I answered and what he did was right. I'd ask him questions. He would just start. Why didn't I let you say that.
I'm going to tell you what it is. I could that's not my question. I didn't answer that. He goes you're here to talk about this and i'm not going to let you do that. And he went on and on to the point where I just said we're not even having a a discussion here.
He's just trying to to take control of everything and just dominate and then they perceive it as winning. It's not winning. That's not how you do it. That's not how it works.
Okay so, uh.
You know, the saint pat is a troll. Okay. Well, you know, uh, they need to hear the gospel, okay. And you know, I asked catholics. I have a way of testing them to see if they're loyal to their church more than jesus.
It's very simple.
I just say look is jesus god. Yes. Does he have all authority in heaven and earth? Yes. Does he forgive sins? Yes. If you're to ask jesus sincerely with a contrite heart jesus, please forgive me of all my sin will he do that.
If they say yes, I say why do you need mary? I need your priesthood. And they say because that's what we're supposed to do. They immediately start defending the priesthood. They're they're church, right?
But I think but if you can go to christ, you don't need them, do you? And they say I can go to christ. I need them. And they can't see the problem because they're in a cult. It's a cult mindset.
Once I had a catholic tell me that he would pray to jesus.
And for the forgiveness of sins.
And I said, okay and he's gonna do that live. And I said look i'm not gonna mock you in this. I mean, I just want it. I want you to pray to jesus. And he started off. He goes. Okay, here it goes. You're right.
Yeah, dear mary.
I couldn't believe it.
He was so conditioned to the idolatry in the catholic church that he couldn't even pray strictly to jesus. It was it was bad.
They can't see that they're idolaters. So look saint pete, uh, if you say that's blasphemy of the holy spirit you have to go to matthew 12 22 through 32 where blasphemy of the holy spirit is said to be saying that jesus was doing his miracles by the power of the Evil one.
And you read matthew 12, maybe 22, excuse me. Are you 22 12 you start reading and you get down to verse 32? And you start seeing what's going on there and that's where it is. You can just check it out and read it.
That's not what blasphemy of the holy spirit is. Okay. Hey brother, joseph, how you doing, buddy?
Not too bad. Not too bad. How are you?
Hanging in there just dealing with obstreperous, uh people who don't know theology don't understand.
Yeah, so i'm yeah, I said earlier in the chat that I didn't watch the show, but I can only imagine some of the cliche uh blundering, uh.
Claims that uh, sam and i'm guessing this is sam shimon.
No, it was with another guy. Um, william. All right, I think it was and um. He really was rude. Condescending he and he said I I don't these things and you you just. What he did several things like that.
It was just uncalled for.
Right.
Yeah, like um so the title was uh, mary as an intercessor or intercession of mary, correct, so.
Yes, according to the scriptures. He said it wasn't scriptures. Yeah, okay, so.
So their whole idea is somehow that she's instantly We uh believed to be queen of heaven. So that's and that again that gives her free grace because they misread the greek of uh,. Luke chapter 127. Yeah, so and so they they use the word in the greek.
Uh chedes or cheres. To misinterpret the word to mean grace is given. And they and they reverse it and instead of it being as luke wrote it to be given to her They read it and instead to be a grace is given from her.
So this gives them the idea that she's in she has the Authority by her own grace that's given to her now in a new nature to give you grace by her own intercession. So again, I but i've never actually heard william give that argument because his arguments is just as you're saying he's just going by someone else's Claim someone else's quote some other historian some other uh scholar, you know, so.
Oh, yeah, and another thing he did was just uh, this fire hose a lot of stuff out stuff that you can't you can't. Let's talk. Let's let's look at that and see if it really says that that he didn't like that.
And he kept saying I kept dodging stuff because the debate was about and I said in my opening statement. It's about this. And he I just said that's not germane. He was the church father says I don't care about the church fathers if what does the scripture say and he said it wasn't about the scriptures only.
He says the scriptures also are the tradition. I'm like, oh jeez. So next time I have a debate like this I say scripture and it's going to be The written word the 39 books of the old 27 of the new that's it.
And they don't agree i'm gone. We're done. So you learn, you know, you learn from your mistakes and the mistake was not being extra clear with him because He needed he needed to be uh held to help have his feet held with a fire.
He really blew it a lot.
And like a lot of these roman catholic debaters, uh, even though they're very uh, very very knowledgeable they've been doing they've been reading and. Being pastors or what have you for say 30 40 years?
They base it all on uh on as you just said post scriptural, uh early church fathers. But the church fathers from all the way up to the fourth century. They they they authorize and they made claims based on the scriptures.
They didn't make claims based on their own personal feelings. Well for the most part they didn't. For the most part yes, there was a few that clearly heretical in their in their in their views, but even they back in the fourth century had conflict with each other because.
They can't they couldn't confirm it in the gospels. They couldn't confirm it in In the uh from matt from uh, matt moses all the way up to zechariah they couldn't.
So. So.
But he's a good example of someone who's been thoroughly brainwashed right. Just brainwashed.
Because he doesn't because he's taken his church and what he's understood about the church to be the authority as you said already.
And the problem with him and seriously. Uh, he thinks he's a good logician, but he's not. So i'll give you an example of something. You didn't hear it. But here's an example of something. Revelation 5 8 right.
Uh when he had taken the book the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down with a lamb each one holding a harp. And the golden Bowls full of incense which are the prayers of the saints see they can hear this they can hear.
It doesn't say that it says that the prayers of the saints doesn't mean they they uh heard them and furthermore. Uh, they had golden bowls. Were the prayers of the saints in the golden bowls? How does that work?
It is very symbolic, but what it actually means according to them. They could hear your prayers all over the world. And it's just you know, it's like are you kidding me? The logic is just so bad, but they can't hear it because they're they're have the cold mind.
Well everybody well everybody who's Level-headed and rational knows that incense is burned. So meaning so that's the meaning. If this is a symbolic representation of literal prayer then say they're say those those incense are burning paper in those.
Though you know a chalice that's being hung by a chain, whatever. You know being burned is not being heard by the lord.
Yeah, it's ridiculous. He and he can't see it and it doesn't logically require that. This is the case. He's making something. He's making a doctrine based on something that's not inferred in the text, but he's saying it's there.
It's just.
It's just stuff like this and he can't even get it and then he says I can't answer Dude, it's you're not even I wanted to say you're not even understanding the issue here and then you're arguing out of out of a profound form of ignorance and lack of judgment and sound uh.
Sound rationality. It was bad.
Like what was one of his uh, uh outlying, uh uh arguments from from uh. Early church fathers that you know clearly wouldn't have come from the scriptures. But what was one of his favorites that he wanted to uh iterate on and harp on?
You know, I I just disregarded it because it wasn't part of the debate. I said look i'm not interested in church fathers or councils. And he you know, what he would do is he'd go well you have creeds on your on your your site.
And uh, therefore that means because they have in the creeds that he believed in mary's intercession. Which we didn't establish as the case but just because I might have someone's creed there doesn't mean I agree with everything.
It's there. I'm just providing a service to give a lot of information. He couldn't see that but I explained it. You know, it was bad. Feast, I don't I can't read up. I'm doing several things at once feast.
Just what's your answer to the question? That's all i'm saying just so I can pay attention and read it. Some people will say uh, I entered above I don't know where to above and how far up above i'm not running from it.
I'm just saying are your all your sins forgiven right now? Just i'm paying attention now. Could you just type in the answer are all your sins forgiven right now? Okay. Yeah, yeah born again if you want to come in right now, it's fine, uh come in here and talk uh Remy you seem to know stuff buddy.
Yeah. We should talk. No.
I've uh, i've dabbled in um Textually debating and arguing with roman catholics and i've got uh, i've got a whole Directory or folder in my archives dedicated to them.
Okay. Now look you're making me covet. Okay, you're you're enticing me. So what can I do? To get a hold of that or see what you come up with. I'd love to see that.
I'm on facebook mostly. So, uh. If I can i'll go and find you sometime.
Yeah, you could just uh email me, you know info at karm .org. What I could do is give you my private email address. Sure do it in here. But yeah.
Every once in a while. I do actually, uh use your karm .org and You're you're absolutely invaluable.
Well the site, you know by god's grace we're going through revamping it and we're correcting things and um, You know, i've written 4500 articles basically and you can't get everything right every single time.
But just on a lot and we're going through we're making it ready for search engine optimization. We're really working on that a great deal. And we're also going through and and fixing some grammar things and some stuff that happened.
Sometimes i'll put something over and give a wrong quote for something, you know, it happens, but we're trying to uh to go through the seo and revamp the site, so I was asking feast if he would answer the question Why did looking for some blister you have long generations because she's blessed among all generations.
That's why feast but mary is blessed okay, but um uh truth defender. What was his name a guy debated was william albright. I think his name was. He was rude. He didn't know what he was doing. You should watch some of it.
It just it was bad. It really was bad. Um, and he claims victory oh absolute victory he goes and someone even in the room said well Did god predestined for you to lose this debate man? I'm like what?
They're.
I was actually cracking up from some of the uh comments and then he said to me. He goes I can tell you're angry from the comments like what? They're making they're making me laugh a lot of them. They're so bad it was it was horrible.
Yeah, i've actually i've watched.
William and Again in debates against uh, kelly powers and a few others. And yeah he's very proud very um I would like to say arrogant, but a lot of people are.
Yeah, but.
Just yeah, that's just like you're describing. He's very sure of not just himself, but. What he's been.
Tutored on what he's been coached on and by sam shimon, I think sam is not good. He's bad. Yeah, he's bad.
Yep.
He says horrible things of people vile filthy things He does. Where do you live? Uh, remy.
Oh, um, i'm born and raised and still living in uh, ontario canada. Oh, okay.
I'm in idaho. I don't know if that's near. I don't know where i'm. Ontario's over there. Hey born again, how are you doing buddy?
All right doing real good there man. I don't know if you remember our conversation from a while ago. Um, we had just a conversation private, you know. We talked about different things about catholicism and I was saved out of catholicism 20 years ago and you met my wife and we kind of joked.
I had given her a kiss and and you were like. You were like there's nothing wrong with kissing your wife who was just kind of you know, freaky or something. Do you remember that?
No, I I joke a lot with people but uh, no, I remember, you know, I was.
I always said that to see if it would jog your memory. But anyways, william albrecht. I've known this guy for over five years and honestly Matt I don't. You lasted for nearly two and a half hours debating this guy because he does possible logical fallacy that you can imagine.
He pontificates he. Um, he grandstands. He does. And he accuses his opponents of doing everything that he does. He strawmans. He fret hearings. Another thing I wanted to ask you man.
That was the guy tonight.
Huh.
I said that was the guy tonight. I'm sorry what you're saying. I was asking who you talking to specifically or about specifically because it sounds like the guy tonight. Well, okay. Yeah, he grandstands.
Absolutely.
Good word.
Yeah, he does all this stuff. Now. The thing I was going to ask you matt before you debate with him. Did you agree. Did the two you agree ahead of time to limit to the scriptures? You both consider to be inspired or did you agree to talk about the um, like early church fathers as part of the debate?
Something with early church fathers. You're breaking up a little bit for me. Um, we talked about. Did you watch the debate tonight?
I I watched part of the debate and honestly, I enjoyed listening to you. I was having a real hard time listening to william.
Yeah, I can see why. Um, he's so arrogant, uh prideful that he can't even see his own sin. And rebellion against god and and uh his bad behavior and then he accuses me of being bad behavior. I tried something for one minute.
Treating him like he was treating me to see if that would work to see if it would calm him down. And I said, okay fine so I just did that on purpose. I even said that while I was doing it. I'm doing this what you said because you said this that's why i'm doing that to see what he would do.
And uh after a while, he was grandstanding a lot and pontificating and then uh, he he accused me of it and It was it was bad. Um, he did accuse me mad of cheap shots as was doing what he accused you of.
Yeah. Yeah. It is he was he saw hypocrisy is there?
The question for me is do you condemn them to hell for what seems like the universal intercession of mary? Uh, I play guitar. No, there is no universal intercession of mary in the church fathers.
There's just not i've gone through. Let me show you guys something i've got i've got access to.
If you go to I'll show you guys can do this yourself. Okay. And it's a catholic thing and I think it's great. I think with the catholic church, whoever did it did a fantastic job with this one tool. So I have to just give me a minute, but i'm going to put it in here and uh.
And I have to go to my church fathers. I got a link on the church fathers to this one page. And I want you to find it and let's see church fathers. Uh quotes my topic. I think it is. And uh, yeah, here we go.
I got that and now I can put it in here. All right I say go here what this link is.
Is.
You can take any verse. Type it in and it'll tell you what the church fathers said about it.
Oh, that's good.
Oh, yeah, so. Like, uh, you know, you can go to john 3 16 you can go to which i've done. I've got all these things i've done off of this thing here and uh I have examples of bad interpretation of scripture by various church fathers.
I have miscellaneous quotes scriptures as a final authority from church fathers salvation by faith and works. I mean, it's got all kinds of stuff from this link here, which i'm looking at on my website.
I say go there. Check it out. Do what you want there? And uh, I also have this which i've done. And I could do a lot lot more. Okay. But it takes a lot of work to just do one so church fathers by Verse i've done colossal 2 14 flippans 1 29.
John 6 39 because they're relevant. I may do some more on some of these verses that uh, the catholics, you know. What the church father said about various verses because they always do this. They say the church fathers always taught this.
No, they didn't. It's not true and I can prove it. I proved it so many times, but they don't care. They don't care. Don't care. They don't care. Saint look at saint pat. If you claim you sin, why would you be pretending to teach scripture?
I'm not pretending to teach scripture. I can teach scripture and you're going to ask that to paul the apostle in romans 7 18 through 25. He said the things he doesn't want to do he does he was talking about his sinful nature.
Who will deliver me from this body of death and yet he taught the word of god. So if you're saying that I can't because i'm a sinner then you must be consistent say paul the apostle can't because he's a sinner.
You're just failing to understand what inspiration is. You're going to understand how it works and to teach and there's so much I could say about this. But look Saint you don't understand basic logic and and critical thinking when it comes to the issue of scripture.
And I've noticed this in uh cults is that the ability for them to think critically very far is just gone. It's gone. Uh, they can't do it because they're called they have a cult mind. And i'm actually thinking about writing a book or booklet on this called the cult mind.
And I haven't decided if i'm going to do it or not. But I keep talking about it lately and putting notes in like this like they can't be logical past what their. Or I put in quotes organization, these are just notes to me organize the organ.
Organization.
All right. Yes, I don't find protestant beliefs in the first few centuries. Really you don't here. Let me show you something.
Uh, let's see, let's see. Where was that? My topic. Reformed theology from the church fathers. All right. There you go. You can go and check it out. I have in there. From the church fathers the church is a body of believers.
The depravity of man that people are touched by sin in their entirety. That election people are chosen for salvation. Augustine chrysostom clement of rome tertullian said this. I mean there it is. Faith alone for salvation.
Chrysostom said it. Justin marger polycarp. Theodoret vincent of lorenz. Faith is granted by god. Ambrose. Yeah, ambrose augustine chrysostom. Sulpiteous severus and theodoret. Federal headship was taught by athanasius and augustine.
Irresistible grace taught by augustine. As to with being born again, that's what that means. Not about just grace anywhere or anything. Limited atonement augustine. Uh seems to teach that and he says christ died for the elect.
Uh perseverance of the saints. Augustine augustine augustine sepulchrus severus predestination. Athanasius augustine clement of rome tertullian. Sin is a legal debt. Ambrose augustine augustine on sin.
Unconditional election. Augustine augustine augustine. So i'm just saying. People say, you know, i'm going to just say this a lot of catholics are just ignorant. All they do is believe whatever their catholic church tells them and they just repeat these same things.
And they've said oh the reformed theology is never taught by the church fathers. I'm gonna go see if that's true. I went to that site. I told you guys about all the scriptures you can put them in. I went and looked and guess what I found.
They do. It's right there to church fathers. I can even show you where jesus taught the five points of calvinism. Where jesus himself taught it. I can show it to you from jesus own words.
And so.
I am i'm just blown away by the complete ignorance of so many people who've given their minds over to the overarching Organizational authority and that's all they do. They don't think they just repeat.
They just vomit out what the church tells them and that's it and you're just wrong because we have the truth. That's a cult mind. And show it you want to see. I'll show it here. It is right there. Right there.
The title is you go to karm. I'll put the title in. Okay the title. Early church fathers.
There it is.
Okay, go to karm and type in. Or go to google type in karm .org Karm .org then space and type in. Early church fathers reform theology. Hit enter it'll come up. The list will come up. You can see it. You can click and you can see it for yourself.
There it is. Okay.
The links are provided in the document so you can click on them and see the whole thing in context. So I have a little saying for the catholics who are watching stop whining. And start learning. Do your homework.
Grow up and stop submitting yourself to the catholic church. Go do some thinking on your own and stop puking your crap towards me. Just stop it. Go do your research. I do it and you guys don't. You don't know what you're doing.
You do not know.
Like, um one of my own uh back on the staying on the topic of uh, the lie of intercession of mary, um. And um, you actually you personally, uh might be watching you for the last six years or so. Uh gave me inspiration to use logic with the bible.
So basic using the Bible as it's as the base for logic not mathematical logic and so. You base it on you know. The lord says that he hears all prayers and he hears all his people and all of us and so going by that logic God says absolutely that he is omnipresent by well, not the word omnipresent, but the action the behavior the nature the characteristic and and the omniscient.
And so you use that in um in psalm 139, uh when david says that uh. Before a word comes out of my my mouth lord, you hear all things or you know all things. You I based that on. Okay. So the roman catholics to the that I would talk to years and years ago.
Okay, so you say mary here's your petitions they use the word petition. For those who are not watching air quote. Okay, so mary is able to hear a petition of uh, how many roman catholics and I. And I actually.
Years ago, I actually went and googled it and I actually googled it just now. It's 1 .37.
Surveyed.
Professing roman catholics around the world, so 1 .37, but. My notes I I uh, so years ago in my notes Me 1 .3 1 .3 billion. Sorry 1 .3 billion. Sorry. And so but in my notes so from years ago, it was 1 .32 Billion, so just 1 .3 to round it off.
I divided that by 24 for the hours in a day and I divided that again by minutes in an hour and I got uh 900 plus thousand every minute. Are praying to a saint not necessarily mary just one of the saints per minute 900 000 and so I actually i've been meaning to i've been meaning to get up.
That's awesome. I've been meaning to get up off my butt and make a video of this because I even made an audio file of uh, nine pastors and one audio file of the pope all 10 10 audio files all and I put them in audacity and I put them all in one mp3 for one whole minute.
All all talking at the same time. And i've been meaning to put to show people. Okay, so you you if you challenge you for this is 10 nine pastors and one pope. Isolate in your ears one person talking. And what they what they say and write it out to me what they're saying and if you can do that i'll give you.
One second not even one second of billions of a second of what she's doing for one minute. And you okay, so they're gonna say okay, so maybe it's not nine hundred thousand. Let's uh, give that you know, say there's 30 say there's 40 saints and she's one of them.
Okay, so you divide the number by 40? You probably get it. You know, you probably get somewhere around 80 000.
Well, you gotta do this too though. You gotta say how many how many minutes in a day? And uh. How many average you got. To kind of guess how many minutes does an average catholic pray a day? Let's just say five minutes.
That's a lot. Okay, then you use five minutes. Uh at times that many. And then do the math that way and see what happens.
Oh, she uh, so because I have actually heard one roman catholic tell me, uh, or no actually wasn't talking to me I was listening to in a video and they were saying okay. So, uh, mary's more of a receptionist and she's been giving the power.
To open the prayers like a filing system. Maybe it was someone talking to you and i'm like that's just making it worse. So now she's taking her time. You know between you know, some sort of office coffee break.
You know to read your file in a filing cabinet and by the time she opens the drawer with your file in it. She's got another whole storage room full of filing cabinet. She hasn't even seen yet to wait to wait for her before she's finished.
These these.
Yeah, but brother joseph, don't you understand that time is not the same you're doing is there so she can do this all at once. Because it's forever. It's like it was not a time a day's a thousand years a thousand years a day so she can do it.
That's how it works. So in other words, they are making her into a deity a god.
Yeah, I called her a functioning goddess in catholicism and they don't like it, but they understand it. She is a functioning goddess to them. Yeah, yeah. Oh hold on stevie steve.
Can't hear you.
Um, hold on. Are you on a mac or you're on a pc.
Pc.
Okay, I used to be a computer tech. Go to the I don't know how much you know, but go to the bottom right hand corner. Put your mouse the bottom right hand corner. Don't click anything. Put your mouse over the speaker.
And then right mouse click over the speaker and go. Sound settings. All right, that'll open it up. And then you'll you'll see. That it you need to do the right, uh voice. You make sure that the microphone is set to the right one.
And if it doesn't work. Sometimes you got to reboot your computer, but also there's another thing you got to do with the browser, too. So check that and i'll tell you what to do with the browser and that should fix it.
Okay? So right hand corner, it's called the system tray.
There's a speaker right mouse click on the speaker go to open settings or sound settings. Excuse me.
Sound settings. And then in sound settings, it'll open up here. I'll show you i'll do. I'll share my screen. Okay, what is. You on the phone. Okay, let me share my screen. I'll show you what to do. Okay, let's see.
Share screen. I used to be tech support for a while and uh, I still enjoy that. All right. Here we go. So you can see this. Watch. What you do is you go down here. Bottom right there right mouse click right down there.
Speaker. There's a speaker right there. If you can't get it shake your head. No, you can't get it. Good now go to sound settings. Okay, you have headphones here. Scroll down. To the device speaking that's uh for your microphone.
Okay and pick the right one. That's your microphone. Doesn't work yet. Just keep talking. Now there's another something you got to do though. Okay, and what you need to do Is is probably this? You come in here to.
You're inside of stream yard. At the bottom of stream yard. It says settings. Do you see it says settings? Go to settings. And then it'll open up. And then you want to click on audio. Has mic and speaker in there.
Makes sense. We'll try for a little bit longer. Here i'll share my screen for the the one for this.
Entire screen and we'll go.
Here and there we go there so. At the bottom of the screen right down here. Okay. Settings.
Click.
Okay. And then you go to audio. Don't know it's covering the screens. I don't know if you can see it. But you go to audio. Okay, then you pick down the microphone. Okay, pick the right microphone. I have lots of stuff.
And then you can talk and if it can hear. Yes now we hear you.
That did it awesome. Thank you. Thank you.
One more thing.
Not many people know i'm going to share this one trick for those people who know because this is. A lot of people they get so stumped and this one little thing will help you and uh. This is it and i'll show it to you.
I'll be done. Okay. Here's here we go. It's oh I go to the browser. Okay, so the browser you come right up here to this thing right here. You see this? Yeah, yeah here and you click that.
And it'll uh.
It'll give you settings for a microphone and stuff. A lot of people don't know that's there and they'll work everything and they can't figure it out because the browser isn't set also.
I'm done. Okay. Okay. Well, you know that was actually almost as helpful as your karm website which helped me get out of roman catholicism. One thing is what happened is that the reason I think I was having trouble with that is because my wife Got me a new microphone for my birthday and I think she was kind of fiddling with it.
And that's why you I could you could see me, but you couldn't hear me. But anyways getting back to the debate in and william albrecht. I don't know how much you heard earlier because I was coming and going.
You know with my phone because I have problems with the phone for some reason. But i've known william albrecht for over five years and he was a guy that I was talking with you matt Earlier in the year and I says if you ever debate this guy, he's going to use all kinds of logical fallacies if you.
If you've ever watched the debate between him and dr Michael brown on purgatory he did the same thing grandstanding pontificating going around beyond the boundaries of the agreed upon parameters of debate and one thing he's been saying is that um that the two you agreed ahead of time to not just focus on Scripture that you agreed on but also early church fathers and everything else.
Yeah, and he he said the same thing with dr Brown too and he's yet after two and a half years to provide that type of information. But um, I had the opportunity to debate him on the canon and the merian dogmas and I refused to because I know.
This is how he is. And honestly, I gotta give you credit matt. I don't know how you held out with him for two and a half hours.
It was to Actually in part to show how bad he was. Yeah, he was bad, but he can't even see it and the people can't see it. That was one thing the other was they say, you know, I quit. I don't do that.
Uh in different chat rooms if people just continually over talk me. It's not a formal debate. I'm out. I'm gonna talk to you, you know. That's one thing and the other is I was able to give the gospel several times.
Yeah, that was good. So for me, it's a victory and I wouldn't say anyone won or lost. He's gonna claim victory but he I would say he was not able to substantiate from scripture that mary has intercessory value.
So he didn't do that. So he lost. I showed from scripture. That's not the case.
You're right. Well, like I said, I was enjoying listening to you like your opening statement and your responses and everything, but I I I'm, sorry, but I couldn't stomach him because I've I've learned so much in the past and he's gotten worse and he brought up about Sam schmoon because you know, they're the brother in arms if you've ever seen them and He's william has always been this way, but he's gotten progressively more vitriol since he's been with sam schmoon, honestly.
Yeah, sam is a bad example. Oh, he's horrible. By the way. Did you actually just leave or did he boot you out? At the end.
Oh, no, no, it was just gonna go on and on. I just said look, you know, I gave my my final thing. I said look i'm gonna open up after show thing i'm gonna be gone. I'll open up in five minutes people go look i'm out of here, you know, it was gone and I said, okay.
So i'm going and i've saved my stuff about the gospel and their everything and it didn't do well. It says i'm out. That's it. I'm going and then that was it. I just left so if they say oh He couldn't handle he left and they are.
Yeah, they are. That's not true and it's like Most debates a lot of debates, you know don't exceed much over two hours and you were there for like two and a half hours.
How could they say that you were you you left? I mean it was pretty much over and had been over for a while. And what was the the the resolution was? Proving from scripture that mary Uh intercedes, you know for those living on earth and he was not able to provide any evidence.
The other thing is he kept uh going back to revelation 12. I don't know if you're familiar but there's the catholic church has allegedly Claimed to have only infallibly interpreted six verses out of the bible.
It's this letter that I got. Yeah, it's actually I I saw a letter. I got it from my friend dr Tony costa and and and it's this letter. It's a catholic letter and it's six verses that interprets seven, um catholic dogmas and doctrines.
Revelation chapter 12 is not one of them. So when they try to use revelation chapter 12 It is simply an opinion of the catholic apologists and those that agree with them like they try to draw from early church fathers.
The early church fathers are not infallible. So it's like all this is the opinion of the catholic apologist. That revelation 12 was talking about mary. But like you said if it's mary mary's in heaven mary's given birth mary's having birth pains.
Which is a sinner and then it says that she has children later while that refutes the the perpetual virginity of mary.
Right. Yep. Yeah, I brought this stuff out and uh. Yeah, and you know.
Just yeah. Yeah. Just so much, you know.
Yeah, so I mean I I would i'd love to debate him because i've debated debated other catholics like, um, robertson jennis you know on the mary dogmas, uh, Trent horne from catholic answers i've debated.
Um, I might be debating jimmy akin on on um purgatory at some point and it's like I'd like and I debated gary mchuga on the canon, you know, but um, William, I like to debate but he's just I would spend more time.
Saying.
Forgive me. Shut up. William. I'm trying to talk here. Stop talking over me, you know. And it's like the fact you guys didn't have a moderator. It's like this this is a guy that you need like two moderators want to control the debate and want to control him.
Yeah, yeah, he was bad. I had no idea he'd be bad. And uh, what what we're gonna do is, uh any debates I have from now on starting in january. We're gonna put up a page strict rules. This is you don't want to adhere to these we don't debate right?
Very clear sentence. They have to send me an email agreeing. This is a debate. And uh, you know I can arrange all this stuff and we have a moderator, uh, you know things like that.
Right, right, um. Where do you usually moderate like like, um, you you go on like, um gospel truth or anything like that?
Sometimes, uh, you know, I don't do I don't uh moderate I could do it. No. No. No, I mean where you're where you're a um,.
Participant.
Yeah, truth gospel, but uh, what's his name truth defender here?
Him um.
Marlin's place.
Marlin has temporarily suspended. Um his debating, you know recently so he doesn't know if it's definite or indefinite or not. But um because I was supposed to debate a catholic on the eucharist. With uh with a catholic but we got rescheduled and now i'm going to be doing it on standing for truth sometime for the first year.
I think you and I are keeping contact. I think you don't worry about the all this. Mike don't know. Well.
Well, you sent me all your notes a while back, you know. Which. And I haven't forgotten about it and you're like because I want to share with you some things. About mary and the canon you said well put it in light blue, you know, so it stands.
You know, so I haven't forgotten about it, but it's like I keep getting backed up between debates and discussions and stuff like that. So I want to let you didn't forget about it. I I am going to send that back to you.
Sure, just do that and uh, you should send me your phone number because I need experts. Who know it better than I do. I think you know catholicism better than I do. We were you were inside it and it always.
I was inside it and like and it's so funny ever since I wrote my book about the canon why protestant bibles are smaller I've actually learned a lot more since then. I learned a lot of it being catholic myself but since then and it's so funny because they say Don't ignore the commentaries on catholic theologians because they have a tendency to sometimes be more honest than catholic Apologists because catholic apologists have an agenda, you know.
And so a lot of the resources I get sometimes for the canon from the mary dogmas or whatever I actually get from not just like protestant sources like yourself, which has been invaluable but also from catholic sources as well.
I mean, it's amazing how they help me.
I need everything. My notes are now 237 pages. Wow and uh. So I keep adding to it and uh and stuff. But what i'm going to do is put them on karm under a paid subscription thing. So people can get the notes that they develop.
Because we've got to find a way to bring money in to keep the site going and support everybody. Everything's for free. It's always been for free. But we're going to try and do a couple things where people can just you know.
Five dollars a month you get access to this from there.
Well, i'm constantly sharing i'm constantly sharing calm karma on social media and stuff because i'm like you gotta check this out. You gotta check this out. But hey just just out of curiosity and I don't want to put you on the spot man, but What um What um qualifications does it take to write on karm .org?
I mean, I know you own everything like if someone submits like an article, you know I mean like for instance, I think luke has written a couple things in the past.
He wrote about 400 articles. He was with us for about five years. What we what we look for is competence. We like it if a person has a degree, but they don't have to have a degree. They have to be very dedicated and they'd be Qualified in their areas to really be able to document stuff well.
And then we we tell them you got to pray for two weeks. Before you you know, because because people who work with karm get attacked.
Yeah, you just you do and uh, we asked and then we we want reference to your your church. We want to talk to maybe an elder because we just want to make sure you know, everything's okay. That's all right.
Sure. And then what we do is we sometimes we'll say here answer a couple emails. And just see how you are and then Gradually, okay, you can write and then we check the first few and after a while we go.
I don't care anymore. Just keep writing, you know, that's what it is.
Because I would because you know, I have my own ministry and everything but it's like I I'd love to leave like a somewhat of a legacy not for myself but for a witness for christ, you know, because it's like I my my focus is Is reaching out to roman catholics.
Because I was a roman catholic and I have a desire to lead people to christ. Which of course it's the holy spirit, you know that does all the work, you know. We're just the witnesses and tell the truth and spread the gospel.
Have like one article at least on karm because and part of it is because in those early years where I was like sucking on the milk, you know coming out of roman catholicism. Karm was one of the first christian websites I Found and it was so helpful because i'm like, what about this?
What about this. And I go to karm and I would find it there and i'm like, okay that makes sense. And and I went from being like a in our basically a armenian type roman catholic to a five-point celtic.
Oh, I didn't know. Good. Automatically that just that brings you up there. Well, you know.
You pedo baptist or not? Oh, i'm i'm pedo. Oh, no. No, i'm i'm credo credo baptist.
All right, i'm pedo, but whatever.
Continuationist or cessationist, um.
Well, no, i'm, um, i'm cessationist, but I have I consider um continuationist to be brothers in christ.
Okay, i'm a continuationist. Yeah, let's see. How about uh all male pre-male post male.
Um, i'm pre.
Okay, i'm all and uh, you won't be uh, a full preterist because anybody has full preterist. We can't. Yeah, we couldn't do that.
But what we ask is we ask people to agree with a statement of faith on card. But in there, for example, like continuationism or cessationism we say both both are okay. It's okay to be one, you know, and and even if you're not a calvinist, that's okay.
Would you want to make sure you hold this and that's it? That's it.
You're all five. I'm all five. You with the hardest one for me honestly was coming out of roman catholicism limited atonement. Because because it's a whole fair thing, but then I realized what's fair would be god sending everybody to hell.
Any second. And we are live. Yeah, we're live on a. What is tonight? It's thursday night Charlie your mic's open.
Oh, sorry about that.
But charlie, he's a guy who got me started in apologetics back in 1980. Oh, wow.
Wow, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I met charlie. I knew charlie is charlie guy with the white hair. Yeah, yeah, I know charlie. I've talked. I've talked to charlie a couple times so.
Uh charlie, did you watch the debate. And by the way brother joseph? Have you got some stuff you want to. You know, we're looking for for writers for karm. I can't write everything and we need more expertise and there's a karm style.
We ask people to write in the karm style.
Style is. Like you'll notice for example, what is the trinity the first paragraph it's answered. Mm-hmm. Yeah, okay trinity's invented a lot of times you write but you go to an article. What's a trinity five days later?
You're reading. Oh, there it is. We don't do that. What we do is we get one topic and we have one article for one topic. That's the rule. We never break it. Except pretty regularly. Okay. So it's it's a pretty strong guideline, but you know.
Whatever. And so we just want people to be let it be succinct. Is that just one thing. And the reason is just a strategy because you can write more articles that way and you can aim them for search engine optimization.
With keyword specialization and you can get more traffic in on individual articles.
Yeah, that's true. So in a way it's kind of a written form of a youtube short where you try to keep it like under a minute. You know because you basically have the main argument right there in front of you.
Yeah. Yeah makes sense.
Have to be a minimum of 300 words and we prefer you know, go up and and stuff like that. It's just just get to the point. I say to people Get angry and then write something. That's what it is. That's what it's gonna sound.
You don't like guys do that. Okay?
And uh.
That way you just get right to the point and you go that's what you want. Just get to the point and then. If you had to ramble on more make another article. Yeah. It's easy.
Yeah. Yeah, like I said, I didn't watch the entire debate. But did you get into the whole latreia dhulia argument with him?
He started bringing that up and like you don't even know what latreia and dhulia is and I I said at one point I go, yeah, I know about hyper dhulia latreia and and uh. Dhulia, I brought in an extra one.
He didn't mention. He said did you hear him mention it? Give me a break.
Yeah, let me guess he brought up act 7 -7, right? No, he didn't. That's a surprise because that's like his go-to thing because um, I had a debate with an eastern orthodox priest in 2023 on uh intercession of praying to marry in the states and I really dug deep into the whole latreia dhulia argument and it's like I went back to the hebrew went back to the greek the Equivalents of latreia dhulia and everything and it's like anytime it's used in a religious context.
They're synonymous basically. I mean, it's like you and so when it when it talks about dhulio or um, um latreio, I think like with with that's in the greek.
Hebrew equivalents like when you go back to the ten commandments and stuff. It's like the one is basically like a service of worship. Another one is worship. And so it's like there isn't this this distinction.
I mean the distinction is is very nuanced on the context of the passage, but they're both forms of worship, you know. So in other words if you're committing Um dhulia, you're committing latreia too, you know, if you're it's supposed to only be for god.
So if they're doing the same and they're hyper dhulian and merry they're actually latreia hurt them too.
How how old are you? I'm, just curious.
Um, I just turned 54.
Wow, and how old I am.
Older than 54.
How old do you think I am? How do I look? I like I like this. How do I look?
I would say you're five years older than than me. I would. I would put you at 59.
I'm 68. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, yes, I am i'm 68. I didn't have my birthday on the 9th.
I remember you when you had your dark brown beard mustache and beard. That's how far back I go with you, you know watching and stuff. But um, no, I wouldn't have guessed that.
Yeah, most people don't. I'm two years from 70. I'm, you know what i'm gonna say. I look pretty good for somebody who's 68. Okay. I'll grant that. Yeah. I'll grant that.
Yeah, I wouldn't have guessed.
Unless it's.
Right after I get up from you know in the morning and go in the mirror. Yeah. That happens. But other than that, hey look I gotta get down here at the top of the hour, okay.
Yeah, and and I think I still have your phone number. Obviously i'm not going to mention it on air but have you changed it in the last year. Because I can I'll text you my phone number immediately afterwards.
And if you could just send me a text back saying you got it.
Yeah, no problem. Um, you can do that and uh. Also, uh brother joseph man, you kind of impressed me a little bit, you know some stuff. You've done some serious study too.
Yeah, so.
I'm, it's mostly because i'm challenged by those and who I encounter calling me out and I go and prove them wrong. And then I learn more from Reading the whole chapter from what they claim. They know and I learn more about the lord and so.
Well contact us. Let's see if you guys are interested in writing for karm and researching for karm. We we want more people and i'll tell you it's hard for me to say that. It's like someone i'm saying.
Yeah to the guy you can date my daughter. That's what it's like. But I know it's what's needed and we need other people who can do quite honestly. Better job than I do in certain topics in certain ways because I write I I try what I try and do is take complex stuff bring it down and then write about it briefly.
For the next one to do that so people can get this basic stuff and uh, i'm also thinking about writing a section. Where it's a lot more sophisticated where you get a lot deeper into stuff. And so it's a five-page article where you really get into deep depth.
Here's the greek. This is why that this is what the heiress means. This is why the imperative is not used here. This is what that is blah blah blah and a sampling of that is uh, my article, uh, first corinthians.
Uh one two call upon the name of the lord. It's a long article. But it's a sampling of something that's more deep so i'm thinking about doing that and having it as a section that you got to pay to get into and uh, For this call it the scholar's corner, you know.
We do we have to get we got to find a way to make more money because all the expenses are going up. We have missionaries in south america. We have them in africa and we're trying to keep them fed and they do great work.
It's it's tough. But uh, and we got charlie. He helps karm. We got laura. He she helps there's so many. And we're just it's okay to do that and plus the radio is going up in cost i've been doing radio for 20 years so.
Contact me. All right. Yeah, i'll contact you and whatever I can do and if the if it's the lord's, you know will basically um to to write an article or whatever i'll contact the pastor for my church that i'm a good friend with i'll pray for A couple of weeks about it and then um, it's it's in the lord's hands at that point.
Well, I can tell already. You're pretty articulate intelligent and you've studied and i'd love the fact that you're an ex-catholic. Oh, yeah, that means you just have insights. I will never have and those it's so valuable.
It's so valuable.
Yeah, because what. Because being a former catholic I know all of the strongman arguments that people that weren't brought up in roman catholicism have and and they just assume that about me. I'm, like no, I understand.
This is what it means. It's like so when so when. Um, when we say that catholics worship mary, we're not saying that they actively willful do it. They're doing it without actually realizing it's sort of like.
Sort of like something like abortion, you know, if someone will say well. But we're not killing a baby when we're having abortion. That's not the intent. It doesn't matter what you think your intent is the action itself is still.
Likewise the action of of worshiping mary when you pray is still worship. Even if that's not your intent. Yeah.
What shocked me sorry really quick what shocked me though is that. Um, I don't like calling her this but she's my stepmother. Yeah, my dad is the one who got Divorced my i'm living with my my actual mother.
Anyways, my stepmother. I asked her I asked her a decade ago. Uh, do you guys pray to mary? Do you worship mary? And she said yes to the affirmative of both so and yet she's a darling little lady who's been you know, her husband her late husband who she she replaced he was a High deacon of her of her church at the time and so she just flat out said yes we do and i'm like.
There's not too far from me there's a house we call the mary house. You walk in idols. Everywhere of mary. Oh, I mean floor to ceiling along all the walls mary.
You know, it's funny because catholics will say that uh. The bible is a catholic book. That's a whole jimmy aiken thing from catholic answers and and one of the things I say right away because coming as a former catholic.
If it was a catholic book if roman catholics wrote it. You really think that they would limit mary's name to 19 times in the new testament. You don't think she would be flooded.
Throughout the new testament. That's a good point. She has a great point.
Yeah, it's stuff like that. It's stuff like that. I think about you know, that comes out i'll read something and and uh, You know like with this whole thing with the eucharist coming up this debate or whatever.
There's something that my pastor said at church. And nobody else actually got it. Then i'm like wait a minute. This is going to fit into my debate and what he said actually just proved. Um the the transubstantiation and the pastor didn't even realize he did it, but I noticed it.
Oh.
Well good for you. Yeah good for you a bit. And joseph too, man. If you want to contact me if you want through info at karma .org. And we are going to be looking for more people to do stuff. I mean i'm 68 i'm slowing down.
And uh, just what it is and uh, but doing this for karma for 29 years apologetics for 44.
Anything before we go. Is there anything that I can pray for either one of you or for your families or ministries? Either one of you guys. Look, my wife is the one who needs the prayer. I know I remember I know I believe me.
Last time we talked we had a bible study and we actually prayed for her.
Now as she does she's. We got some good news today that the heart valve replacement had open heart surgery. Yeah that it's not quite right. It's got stenosis, but she only has to be checked now once a year and they got meds that can work around stuff.
Oh, praise god. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, so the stenosis, you know, so that so did they end up putting you said a stent in her heart or.
No, they actually Uh gave her a pig valve for her uh mitral valve and then they fixed the tricuspid. And uh, and then while they were getting ready to sew her up, uh her aorta dissected.
Oh shoot that. That's what that's like what john ritter was. And didn't he have a I dissected, uh, Displaced aortic or something like that. Well, I actually.
My personally had a dissected aorta and then my second heart surgery was a mitral valve replacement, but they're both artificial.
Well praise the lord that you know, he spared you he spared your wife. So so praise god for that.
So you got yeah.
But hey guys look I appreciate you talking i'm gonna go and I shut it down and it was great. So let's let's you know connect and we're gonna be looking for people to. Just start writing and do some more stuff.
We're gonna expand out because we got to and there's just so much to do. More videos too. Yep. I sent you a text. So All right. Here it is right here my opening phone.
Yeah, I saw that.
I know I show off. Yeah, here it is.
Hey h-e-y there I just said it there you go. All right.
Got it. All right. God bless. God bless gentlemen brothers.
Thank you for stopping in joseph. All right. God bless everybody.
