May 6, 2019 Show with Terry L. Johnson on “The Case for Traditional Protestantism”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this sixth day of May 2019.

And I'm thrilled to have joining us for the very first time today on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Terry L. Johnson, who is an author, a conference speaker, and senior minister of Independent Presbyterian Church of Savannah, Georgia.

He's actually going to be on twice this week. He's going to be discussing today his book, The Case for Traditional Protestantism. And then we have another subject coming up on Wednesday that we will have Terry explain for you in just a bit on the attributes of God.

We're also going to be promoting a conference coming up very soon where Terry is going to be on the roster of speakers, the East Coast Ministers Conference of the Banner of Truth right here in Pennsylvania at the Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania.

And I will be there, God willing, in attendance. So I'm looking forward to meeting many of you for the first time and becoming reacquainted with many of you that I've already met in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners' audience.

But it is my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Terry L. Johnson.

Thank you very much. I'm glad to be a part of the broadcast.

Oh, I'm thrilled to have you a part of the broadcast. And I know the folks at Banner of Truth are a very discerning lot, very finicky, and rightfully so. So I know that you will be a guest today and also a speaker that is well worth hearing when you are going to be speaking at the upcoming East Coast Ministers Conference in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania.

But before we go into the subject at hand, the case for traditional Protestantism, and also before we go into a little bit of an explanation on the East Coast Ministers Conference, tell us something about the Independent Presbyterian Church of Savannah, Georgia.

The name is a very unusual name because it sounds somewhat oxymoronic, Independent Presbyterian. So tell us something about that.

Well, you're right. There would be a Presbyterian connected and accountable. The congregation was the first in Georgia. Its foundation goes back to prior to 1755 time. And so it remained independent until there was something in the 1820s.

And you know how things go in church life. Once they had been on their own for about 70 years, there was some resistance to yielding up any of their own control or their own congregation to anyone else.

Your listeners may be congregationalists, but going back to Union where they cooperated with the church planning in the western territories, and they were agreeable to do that. It was hardly a shade of difference between New England Congregationalism and Presbyterianism.

And so Congregational Church is the President. You know, after he graduated from Congregational Church. So when there was one of the accidents of history,.

Well, I want to let our listeners know, and hopefully I'll remember to repeat this later on, but if you live in the Savannah, Georgia area, or if you have family, friends, and loved ones in that area, or if you're visiting that area on vacation, the website to find out more details about the Independent Presbyterian Church of Savannah, Georgia is ipsav .org.

I-P-C, standing for Independent Presbyterian Church, SAV, which is an abbreviation for Savannah, dot org, I-P-C-S-A-V dot org. And also, I'd like you to give a teaser for our upcoming interview this Wednesday, God willing.

On Wednesday, May 8th, we're having Terry back on Iron Sherpa Design Radio to discuss his new book, The Identity and Attributes of God, a publication of Banner of Truth. If you could let our listeners know something about our next interview.

Well, I was for the sake of the series of ten sermons on the attributes of God. And it did, because as I read, I just deeply loved the attributes. And I thought that it might have some shared, might have some value beyond my own congregation.

And so I sent them off to the Banner of Truth. But it's really just, the current book is just half. I'm hoping the second volume will be published.

Well, I want to read, go ahead, I'm sorry.

No, there's just so much that one could say about the attributes of God. I mean, you cannot plunge the, you know, there's just always more to be said.

Well, I'm going to read a brief commendation for that book from Carl Truman, who has been a guest a number of times on Iron Sharp and Zion Radio. I look forward to Carl returning to the program. But Carl says, This book is both profound in its theology, lucid in its exposition, and deeply pastoral and practical in its tone and intention.

Anyone wanting to dive into the doctrine of God who wants to see how classical theism connects to everyday Christian life, and what is therefore practically at stake when such theology is abandoned, should read this book.

That's Dr. Carl Truman. And also, I'd like you to let our listeners know something about the Banner of Truth and the conference that the Banner of Truth is hosting. In just a couple of weeks, they are hosting this conference from Tuesday, the 28th of May, through Thursday, I'm sorry, yes, through Thursday, the 30th of May, in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania, at Elizabethtown College.

And this is a phenomenal conference that all men in ministry leadership are welcome to register for, and it's going to be on the theme, I Believe in the Holy Spirit. But if you could tell our listeners, I mean, I'm assuming that most of my listeners are familiar with Banner of Truth, since most of my listeners appear to be Reformed, judging from the correspondence we have with listeners.

But there are listeners in our audience who are not even Christian, let alone Reformed. So why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about Banner of Truth, and specifically also about this conference where you are on the speaking roster.

Well, one of the reasons I saw that, because in my own play, because of their significant impact on who God is, in other words, my whole audience, I probably could say was shaped more by any other single act.

So I'm very grateful for it. They always produce beautiful books, and I always wanted to have a really high-quality book published in a high-quality way that might endure, but would be of enduring value.

Yeah, that's a part of their philosophy, actually, that they don't want to print books that are just on current controversies. They want something that has a timeless value to it.

Yes. And so at this conference, I'm to speak on the subject of the Holy Spirit. There are several different speakers, and I'm going to be speaking on the Holy Spirit and how...

Great. Well, we will be repeating this again, God willing, but if you want more details on the Banner of Truth, not only on its publications, but on the East Coast Ministers Conference coming up May 28th through the 30th, go to banneroftruth .org, banneroftruth .org.

If you're specifically looking for information on the conference, click on Events, and then scroll down to East Coast Ministers Conference, and you'll have all the details that you need to register. And now what we do here on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, we have a tradition that when we have a first-time guest on the program, if that guest happens to be a genuinely regenerate Christian, sometimes we have, on rare occasions, guests that are not Christians because they've written something that may be of value to the body of Christ, even if they are not personally a Christian.

But the vast majority of times our guests are Christians, such as yourself. So if you could give us a summary of your salvation testimony and include with that testimony something of the religious atmosphere you were raised in, if any, and what providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord raised up in your life to draw you to himself and save you.

I was brought up, I guess, in a Bible tradition. That was the environment I grew up in. I did evangelistic gospel preaching every Sunday, year in and year out. As for my own testimony, I don't remember a time when I didn't believe.

As far back as I can remember, I did Christ to be saved, but I could not be saved by my good works, believers, and what their eternal destiny might be. And even I've invited friends to study progression.

There's no crisis conversion, no steady growth. We're punctuated by spikes that took place periodically. For example, at the age of five, I became very concerned about my soul. Then at some point, like a two-week period between my soul and my body, I entered one person and came out the other end with an entirely different outlook and why exactly it happened.

But part of the context was strong Christian, very zealous, very bold, outgoing, athletic environment at USC.

Oh, yes.

Church. This would have been about 1974, 75. And on Sunday nights, and we started going on Sunday nights. And every time I went, he was preaching. When we walked out, I walked out just thinking in my mind, you know what?

What he just did, that's what the priest explained the Bible to us. And that is what I had thought growing up in the church that I grew up in. Again, the sermon that Martha was preaching to everybody.

Amen.

And challenging everybody. Those months that extended even into a couple of years, so every week I would enter one person and walk out a different person. Life-transforming preaching. And at the time, I wasn't much of a Sabbatarian.

I'd become, but what we would do is after the service, we would go down to In-N-Out Burger, guys that I hang out with, fries and milkshakes, and then we would discuss and debate and just talk about it and argue about it.

And it was a critical time in my own. Seeing those guys at USC that I have a Bible studies with, and then MacArthur's preaching, the life-changing and outlook-determining impact.

Well, praise God, yes. And I do uphold our brother John MacArthur as one of my greatest heroes of the 20th and 21st centuries. I, as a new Christian, thankfully was nurtured on his writings, including The Gospel According to Jesus, which was a very controversial book that was published in my very early stages of Christianity in the 1980s.

And it's truly amazing how even though our brother John is a dispensationalist, the vast majority of Reformed Christians, including Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists that I know, uphold him as well as a great hero of the faith.

And, of course, he is today and has been for a number of years a thoroughgoing Calvinist in spite of being a dispensationalist. So he is certainly somebody to highly recommend to read and listen to.

Yeah, and he's a great lover of the Puritan.

Yes, amen. And he's certainly not a stereotypical dispensationalist.

No, no. And a Ratton College major at USC. At the same time I was reading Calvin for a Reformation history, Knowing God by Packer, on my own. And I was introduced to the UCLA campus. It's for people who aren't from the West.

But you can see the UCLA campus from there. So I spent a summer living at Hal Lindsey's of Lake Great Planet Earth. He had established, just off of the UCLA campus, one of my tuition buildings. And then at night I was taking these classes from Hal Lindsey.

What Hal was teaching was not all that valuable, but what one of his associates was teaching was right out of Francis Schaefer. And that was my introduction. I was devouring that. So by the time I was a senior encountering Calvin, I decided then I was going to write to J .I. Packer and see if I could study in England with him.

And I got my degree at Gordon for five years. I've been at my current church for the independent prayer years.

Wow. Well, praise God for that. That's not something you hear very often, a brother who has faithfully served in one church for that many years. I'm not trying to denigrate anybody who is called to another church after a shorter period of time, but it is just an unusual thing and a wonderful thing to hear.

And also it's amazing, God being sovereign, how many people I have met who were saved through the late great planet Earth in spite of anything extremely flawed in the thinking and teaching of Hal Lindsey.

And I could say the same thing about Billy Graham, the late Billy Graham, how many people I know who are theologically reformed today, who are even opposed to the Arminian invitation system, who came to faith in Christ at a Billy Graham crusade.

So God does what he wants to do. Yes. Well, when we return from the break, we're going to get right into the heart of our subject today, which is the traditional, or should I say the case for traditional Protestantism, the five solos of the Reformation.

This is a book by our guest, Terry L. Johnson, and it is our theme of discussion today. If you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, just send us an email to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

And please, as always, give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you disagree with your own pastor or your own church on something that we're addressing today. Obviously, I would want you to remain anonymous if that was the case. Or perhaps you are a pastor yourself, and you disagree with your denomination about something we are discussing.

Well, I could also readily see that being a reason to remain anonymous. Perhaps you disagree with your spouse, or whatever reason that you have that you are wanting to remain anonymous, as long as it's a personal and private matter.

Perhaps you're going through a transformation in your own thinking, and you'd rather not call attention to your identity. You're perhaps an Arminian or a Roman Catholic or a Muslim or someone outside completely of the Christian faith, and you are being drawn, perhaps, and you're considering these things, but you don't want anyone in the public to know yet about this.

Well, please remain anonymous. But, if it's just a general question, please give us at least your first name, city and state, and country of residence. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages with more of Terry L. Johnson and the case for traditional Protestantism.

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Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than 90 minutes to go is Terry L. Johnson author, conference speaker, and senior minister of Independent Presbyterian Church of Savannah, Georgia.

We are addressing one of his books today The Case for Traditional Protestantism and we're also discussing and promoting the East Coast Ministers Conference of the Manner of Truth coming up this May 28th through the 30th that's Tuesday through 30th through 30th Tuesday through Thursday 28th through the 30th and that's going to be held at the Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania on the theme, I Believe in the Holy Spirit.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question in regard to The Case for Traditional Protestantism or on any theological matter since Terry is both a theologian and a pastor our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. This is an interesting title in the 21st century The Case for Traditional Protestantism because as you may know Pastor Terry Protestantism has become a dirty word for quite a while amongst a number of people.

In fact, people on opposite ends of the spectrum. You have those that are fundamentalist brethren very often they will have a disdain for the term Protestantism. They will automatically equate it with either liberal mainline Protestantism or they will even focus on some of the unfortunate manner with which the magisterial Protestants of the 16th century and even more recent in history have treated those who were Anabaptists or Baptistic and so on.

So you have these people who have a hostility towards Protestantism from that camp. And also you have the mushy-gushy squishy-wishy Evangelicals who are so focused on not offending people today that they perhaps have modern day ecumenism as a hallmark of their philosophy and they don't really want to identify with Protestantism that sounds too sectarian to them.

Why did you choose to use this term in the title of your book?

Well, I did so because I was concerned with the blurring of the distinction that something valuable was being along the line and I was concerned that there were too many. My own experience was shaped by the shocking of a number of my closest friends and classmates from Gordon-Conwell Wood, Grodi almost every Sunday.

Yeah, Jerry Matitix I don't know if you're familiar with the theological debates that I've organized but my dear friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries who has a long history of debating Roman Catholics.

For a decade on Long Island I arranged debates between Dr. White and Roman Catholic apologists and Jerry Matitix was the very first one who debated on the Marian dogmas and he has since become as you may know, a state of vacantis so he's even outside of the norm of Roman Catholicism these days.

And all of those names I am very familiar with and Scott Hahn has refused to participate in any public debate I've invited him to be involved in and Marcus Grodi the same thing but if you could, I'm sorry.

Yes the right wing at Gordon-Conwell were theonomous and from theonomy Scott Hahn wrote that one could graduate from a Protestant seminary like Gordon-Conwell and end up a Roman Catholic motivated me to popular way the distinctive and I did so I don't five mottos previously I don't think they were ever utilized and I don't think until that was published, I don't think there's even.

But the reason why I did it was I thought it was a very what the issues of the Reformation were and why the doctrine continuing to teach. And you can really sum it all up with the answer to the question what must I do to be saved?

Our answer is you must do Christ alone whom we receive by faith alone as enabled by grace alone also the glory of God alone. And when you begin to elaborate on those, you come out with a with a very sharp distinction between Catholic understanding and that makes it a salvific issue.

That actually makes it a matter of spiritual life or death doesn't it?

Well I think it does and I think Galatians 1 I think the Apostle Paul there with the Judaizing tendency the keeping of the ceremonial law the mistake that the process really lost. I felt like they could have an easy handle on what the differences are.

I mean people today may be a little bit different.

I am continually troubled to put it mildly by the number of people that would share our they would outwardly share our love for Reformed theology they might even be confessional they sometimes are pastors or leaders or authors representing the Reformed faith.

But how often I encounter even some who I would consider my favorite authors or speakers. I will occasionally be shocked when I hear them speaking in a very ecumenical way in regard to Roman Catholics and speak to them generally as our brothers and sisters.

Now I of course know that there are regenerate Roman Catholics but that's because they are believing and trusting in a biblical gospel in spite of the heresies of their own denomination. But I am assuming this concerns you just as much as it concerns me.

It almost appears at times that those who want so desperately to be recognized academically and in the world of scholarship they are afraid of looking too much like fundamentalists or separatists and they will be very soft in their opposition to Rome.

Does this trouble you as much as it troubles me? Well.

I think that if we in a process are going to water down.

I.

Don't think there can be compromising of those any watering down of the difference. They are what they are and we are what we are you know we can respect it in that way but for a Roman Catholic to water down with what he or she believes or for an Orthodox Protestant to water down what we believe.

I think it's helpful to note that we do hold a lot in common. We both affirm the Nicene Creed the Chalcedonian Creed the dual nature of Christ. We have a lot in common and so there's a great body of truth to summarize in those creeds that we agree upon with Western civilization getting more and more secular and hostile ourselves being co-belligerent with the Catholics and the Orthodox in our government and to protect the life of the unborn.

So we are working together more than ever. But I don't think that working together should ever involve watering down the doctrinal differences. We can work together for that in fact in some ways, in spite of this book I'm like the Roman Catholic's favorite Protestant in my part of the country because we understand each other, for that matter the Orthodox Jews we understand each other.

We understand where we're coming from people, you know, because we scorn them but if you encounter another stripe, you know, they don't agree. We don't agree with each other but we understand each other and that mutual understanding can be valuable.

Yes and to clarify for our listeners who are unfamiliar with the term co-belligerence and you can correct me if I'm wrong but that's basically when you are uniting with someone that you have serious differences with but you share a common cause that you believe it is appropriate to unite with them on those areas like for instance to give you an example of the right and wrong way to do that.

My friend that I mentioned before Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries he used to belong to a specific pro-life organization that he had to resign from by his own volition because they did not want him to ever evangelize the Roman Catholics that were involved in the same public events where he was and there would be people reading the rosary and praying to Mary at these events and he was forbidden to in love correct them in any manner or evangelize them.

So he had to resign now. That's where. That's where co-belligerence would really lose its meaning when you are forbidden to actually share the gospel with those that you are working with on other social and moral issues.

Worked out for me to give the OVC vision of January 20 tens of thousands even into they're there but it's dominated by Roman Catholics. All of the leadership is Roman Catholic. But twice they've asked me to come and to do the opening prayer which I've been happy to do.

And one time they had a subject. The subject was legislate morality. But what they have is they have this conference immediately following. So I was one of the features I was able to speak on. My argument was that all law legislates right.

We could never work together in an evangelistic crusade right. Because we don't understand the evangel before any will only get confused. So I think that's how you decide who you can work with. You work with them at the level at which you can work and not compromise anything where you have confidence in each other when it comes to moral issues.

Pretty much when it comes to the gospel.

Right in fact I was very puzzled when somebody who I would also consider my hero the late Dr. D. James Kennedy he very rightfully joined forces with John MacArthur and R .C. Sproul to oppose the evangelical and Catholics together peace treaty that was drafted by the late Charles Colson and others.

Dr. Kennedy very rightly opposed this but then confusingly before he went home to be with the Lord he orchestrated a conference and cruise called Reclaiming America for the Gospel and had a Roman Catholic priest as a part of the roster.

Now if it was just about what you were talking about a co-belligerent event that involved the corruption of America through the failure of of morality and other social aspects that have been destroying this country that I could understand.

But when he included Reclaiming America for the Gospel that's where I had some serious problems but the Lord took him home before that event ever manifested or became you know, became to be. But we have to get to our midway break right now.

This is a longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break in the middle of our show because we or should I say they air their own public service announcements and commercials that localize Zion Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida in the middle of our show while we air our own commercials that are heard globally.

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But we're going to be back after this break with more on the case for traditional Protestantism with Terry L. Johnson Senior Minister of Independent Presbyterian Church of Savannah, Georgia. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

And as always please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

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