Is God Vulnerable? Dead Men Walking Podcast with Chris Huff

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Go. Let's go. There it is.

00:12

Hey, guys, welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast. You've got

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Greg in studio. Jason is out working hard, but we are going to get right into it because we have a special guest on the line.

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It is Mr. Chris Huff, Matter of Theology podcast. How are you, Chris? I'm great, man.

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How are you? Oh, I'm doing awesome. I am so glad you got to stop in. He's a friend of the show. He's been on a few times and you probably recognize the voice from when we did our reformed roundtable and he gave us a potent five minutes of why he is reformed.

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I appreciate that. That was a great episode for us. Got a lot of positive feedback. So I appreciate you taking time to participate in that.

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Oh, brother, thank you for asking me, man. It was it was an honor and privilege to be asked to do that. And what what?

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I'm glad that that has benefited you guys. And may it all go to the glory of God.

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Yeah, absolutely. So if you guys don't know, like we said at the top, Chris is the host of Matter of Theology podcast, among many other things.

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I also like to steal his memes from time to time and post them on our Dead Men Walking Podcast Instagram.

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But before we get into it, just throw out some social media for the folks listening so they know where to find you.

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Yeah, yeah. So it's just at Chris Huff, all one word on on Twitter, Instagram and I'm on Facebook, too, not as much.

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And then Matter of Theology is also just at Matter of Theology, except for Twitter, that's just at Matter Theology.

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Someone already took the of Matter of Theology. So we had to get a little creative there. But you can find us there or just head on over to the

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Bar Network, which is the biblical and reform podcast network hosted by and led by Mr.

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Dwayne Atkinson. Mr. Dwayne Atkinson is Mr. Working out, losing weight, getting ripped. Dwayne Atkinson looks great.

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He looks really good. He looks really healthy. That's good for him. So listen, we wanted to talk about this because for the people listening to Chris and I, we're in kind of the same circles on social media.

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And I feel like we're always tracking kind of the same on some things. I'll notice a comment or I'll want to comment on something.

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And then inevitably, I'll scroll down and see your comment and go, oh, I don't need to comment. Chris said exactly what I was going to say.

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So he's got the bases covered between the two of us. You know, the Batmans of social media were out there scouring

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Gotham City and making sure everything's in line for the word of God. But the very first thing I posted a video, geez, a few weeks ago now.

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And it was just talking about the Hillsong documentary that came out. I want to touch on this because I want to get your thoughts on this.

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Because I got some some weird feedback from my video. I said, look at I've been calling out Hillsong for almost eight or nine years now with some of the things that were going on, some of the teachings coming out of there, some of the things the pastors were saying and doing and the way they were presenting themselves.

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And I will be the first one to correct in love and to call out things that aren't of God. I call them out in my own life as well.

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So don't think that that's right. I'm picking on certain people. Believe me, I'm going to stand before a righteous and holy

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God one day, and he is going to hold me to account on every word and every deed and every action I did.

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But when the documentary came out, I just you know, it's it's it's produced by the content group.

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It's a very worldly secular group. I don't think they've produced anything that has any of any value to any

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Christian. And it just really bugs me when we have a secular group producing a documentary for the main reason,

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I believe, well, to get viewers. But in the light of making a church group or or a denomination look bad.

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Now, look, between you and I, I'm going to quit talking here in a minute. I want to get here. No, you're good, brother.

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Go for it. But but it just bugs me. I'm allowed if we call ourselves brothers and sisters in Christ.

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Yeah, we have a duty to to judge one another, call one another out. In some cases under church discipline, even expel a brother or a believer sister.

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So when I see it done from the worldly aspect of, hey, look at this crazy church that, you know, that that's represented one thing and is now something else.

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And we want to make a couple of bucks off it. I just took the stand and said, look, I know what's been going on in that. I'm not going to watch it or give it a give it a view.

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Someone someone came to me and said, well, when you're calling them out, you're doing the same thing. You're bringing attention to something that is negative within the body.

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What was your view on that? Are you going to take a look at it or do you feel, hey, look at I watched it. Oh, did you?

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OK. No. Yeah, I saw it, man. As soon as as soon as it came out, because like you, brother, I for a long time, for a long time now, probably.

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Well, not a long time. If I if I think back probably since roughly 2018 is when the

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Lord really started opening my eyes to the things that we were seeing coming out of places like Hillsong and Bethel and then

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Elevation and Passion and et cetera, so on and so forth. I did watch it. I tuned in.

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And I agree with your assessment. This is a secular organization and their whole purpose is exposing the the machine, the money making machine that is the limit.

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Let me just call it how it is. The cult of Hillsong. Sure. And, you know, but the goal there was to expose.

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The goal there was division. And when when it's done in, you know, like with what you guys do or what we have done and the things that we have said, the whole purpose in having this conversation is restoration.

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The whole purpose in having the conversation from our point of view is going, OK, our goal is to warn the professing believer in the

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Lord Jesus Christ and going, OK, this is wrong. You should see it on your own from your own study of scripture.

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Your desire should to want to be like the noble Beroeans that we see in Acts 17.

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Your desire should be for biblical fidelity. Your desire should be for truth as a greater importance of the then, quote unquote, peace or as the world would view it.

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But but those are the differences. But some of my initial reactions to the documentary, number one, music is the vehicle.

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Music is the vehicle that that draws people in. It's their songs written to strike chords in your heart so that you you you give money.

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So you start listening to this this teaching when it ends up being false teaching. And, you know, and so that they highlighted, of course, the purity aspect of what we saw with Carl Lentz and what he ended up doing and kind of attacked that.

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And which, you know, to be honest, we as believers should be striving to live pure and holy lives.

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So so but they also elevated that victim mentality and left it there. And you saw that in there big time.

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OK. And and, you know, so so that part, of course, from a believer's standpoint is is negative, definitely.

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But I think what what ends up what one of the things from my background as far as leading music in churches for a number of years and something that we've talked about on matter of theology, of course, with Reckless Love, with Corey Asprey, which we're going to get into with because he's back in back in the news again, back in the headlines again.

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Yeah. Yeah. But but look, I mean, it's it comes down to this. It was Dr. R .C. Sproul who said this.

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He said, quote, God is never pleased with ignorant worship. Worship must be grounded in the knowledge of God.

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Very close quote. And and then Anthony Matheny, who's the pastor of Christ Church, Radford is

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Paul Washer's pastor. OK. Well, he has this quote that is just it just continues to show itself to be true.

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Nothing angers the self -righteous like being told their worship is not acceptable to God. And so so here you have as far as Hillsong goes, here you have this group in this organization that come to find out you end up learning a lot in this documentary as far as Hillsong's background that I didn't know.

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OK. From from from the charismatic side of things. And I am staunchly a cessationist.

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That doesn't mean it mean I don't believe that the Holy Spirit doesn't move and work today. That means that the apostolic gifts have ceased.

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Miracles still happen every day. Salvation is a miracle. Hello. Yeah. Sanctification, a miracle.

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All wrought by the work of the Holy Spirit, by wielding the word of God, which is the sword.

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So but but one of the things that this documentary highlighted for me personally was not knowing that background, the background, the church of God, the the overly charismatic background.

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But then also as it as it moves along, you end up seeing the the gross sin that took place from Brian and Brian Houston's dad's life.

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Yeah. Yeah. From from the pedophilia. And and then you you know, you've got

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Carl Lentz, you've got Brian Houston. You've got a whole list of other a whole line of people who have followed along in the in the same pattern.

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And ultimately, ultimately, it stems from a lack of a fear of God.

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What we're talking about today across the board, whether it's Hillsong or what we're going to get into with Corey Asprey.

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The problem is, is there are too many professing evangelical Christians out there who have this pop culture theology and they do not fear the

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Lord. They don't know who they profess to love. And in the case of Hillsong, it was all about the money.

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It's all about the fame. It was all about the popularity. It was if I'm being honest. And I know

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I can't say this for all who have ever been involved with Hillsong, but I would say for the majority of the case, for the leaders that have been in the spotlight for all the wrong reasons, their goals and aspirations were for their own fame and for their own glory and not for the glory of God.

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Otherwise, we wouldn't even be talking about this right now. Yeah, absolutely. And I would just put an end cap on that and say, for people listening,

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I wasn't making a judgment call saying, if you watch it, then X, Y or Z, or there's a standard there where you can't.

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I was saying for me personally and honestly, if I'm being honest with myself, it would probably be because when

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I was sitting there watching it, I would sit there and probably glory and being right a little bit. And I don't want to do that.

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Does that make sense? Like, like, I don't want to be like, oh, see, I told you. That's not not why

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I want to call anything out. And I felt my kind of flesh going. Yeah, you want to watch that? Just sit there and watch the downfall of something you saw ten years ago.

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And it's like and then also, too, it doesn't take for me. I don't believe it doesn't take any type of real maturity or sanctification in your in your walk, in your process to look at that and see that that is not of scripture, that that is not godly.

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And that's what frustrates me. I go, I feel like I'm not the smartest. I'm not the most holy.

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I'm not the most sanctified. Right. And if I can look at that, yeah, right. And I can look at that and see and go, well, that doesn't line up with what these black and red letters say here.

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That's right. Why do we have millions and millions of people just falling into that hole? And you just go, oh, my gosh, my heart aches because I go, you're not even worshiping the true.

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The true God is so much more sweeter. His grace and his mercy and his justice and his love and his wrath that we are to fear all those things.

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And for me, it was just a personal decision and go, look, I'm not going to I don't want my flesh to rear up at all and go, oh, it almost take joy in it a little bit, not joy, but just you know what

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I mean? Like revel in it and go, yeah, see? Well, I was right. And so that was a personal decision for me.

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But I always know you have a good point when you private message me and go, bro, let's talk about this.

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I always know you're going to come hard with it, with a with a good talking point, with a nice hot take. So I like it. But yeah, let's move right along into Corey.

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So you posted a picture which I directly stole with you without shame and without apology.

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But I'll say here on the podcast, you have a blanket permission, blanket permission on any and everything, but you go for it.

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But it was a screenshot. I think you made a little comment. And and I just went and so I directly found the article.

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First of all, the article was on relevant dot com. So that's the first issue, right?

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So reading through the article and essentially he's got two blurbs in there, a paragraph or two where he's calling

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God vulnerable. And I went, oh, I know exactly where this is going. I've seen this before.

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Right. Well, you've read the article, I'm guessing. This is a few times you with his new

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I think his new album release or some type of spiritual book, spiritual walkthrough book. Now, here's the thing.

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If you read that article, he says some some true things in it. He actually has some true points talking about suffering.

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He doesn't really believe in the faith movement. And, you know, everything's going to be fine if you get saved. I went right on.

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But underlying. Right. I'm always looking for the yeast in the unleavened bread.

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Unfortunately, that's the way I'm wired. And it's a very hard life. I'm sure you're the same way. You can't take anything at face value.

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Go wait a minute. I see a few things in there and you shouldn't. Right. And you shouldn't. And here and here's the problem with that, brother.

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And here's here's the issue with that. Right. So do you know how much like arsenic poison it would take to kill a full grown man like you and I?

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Probably not a lot. Yeah. One drop. One drop. One drop. And guess what?

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That is usually delivered in something very sweet. That's going to mask the taste. Sure. And that is exactly what we have seen and are seeing with Corey Asbury.

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And it's been that way. It's been that way since he burst onto the scene with with the song

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Reckless Love. It has it has absolutely been that way. And and and then, you know, when you share things about it and you say, nope, no, this is not

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OK. And here's why. Mark and avoid warn others to mark and avoid. The response is is from professing believers in the

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Lord Jesus Christ is mind blowing to me. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I'm just like, do you hear yourself right now?

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You're defending a false teacher. And everybody's like, man, give him a break. He's immature.

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Then he shouldn't be a leader. Then he shouldn't be a leader. Absolutely. The church, the the church in America, because because we have we have bought into what

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Virgil Walker calls the sixth solo solo feelings. OK. Right. So so because because the church in America has adopted that and, you know, it's it's it it empowers and enables people like Corey Asbury.

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Yeah. And, you know, what he has said about God in the past, you know, is is is is continued to be highlighted in this latest article that was published on May 16th of 2022.

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You know, when he when when Reckless Love came out, brother, when Reckless Love came out, he had to defend it because everybody's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

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You're calling God's love reckless. Yeah. And this is what he said, quote, when I use the phrase the reckless love of God, I'm not saying that God himself is reckless.

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Pause. You can't divorce God's actions from his attributes. Absolutely. One. Yeah, that's catechism.

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One on one. All right. That's right. Absolutely. So but then he said he said, I am, however, saying that the way he loves in as many regards, quite so.

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What I mean is this. And listen to this. Listen to this. And tell me if you can't hear is

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Dr. Steven Lawson likes to say the hiss of the serpent. He is utterly unconcerned with the consequences of his actions with regards to his own safety, comfort and well -being.

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What? Those are his words. Those. Wow. I've never I've never heard that words.

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He is utterly unconcerned with the consequences of his actions with regards to his own safety, comfort and well -being.

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That is heresy. Yeah. Yeah. That that hello.

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Have you read the Ten Commandments? Right. Yeah, really. Absolutely. God's unconcerned with with with the consequences of his actions in regards to his own safety, comfort and well -being.

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God's number one concern is his glory. Yeah. And I wonder if he was if he had that concern when he preordained

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Christ's death, burial and resurrection before the foundations of the world. I mean, it's like, right, what are you what are you saying here?

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If you remove that foundation from from your worldview of who God is, everything else crumbles.

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Wow. That's crazy. Yeah, I hadn't heard that here. I want to read a little quote from this and you tell me what you think. This is from the article that just came out that's getting everyone crazy.

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And he says in one part, I hope that people maybe lose a little bit of this religion or some of that stuff that we've grown up with in church.

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The idea that God is only ever big and strong and bare chested. And they could see him as this vulnerable as on the cross with his arms wide open, naked, bruised, beaten, bloody for them and not to be afraid to come to him that way.

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So my first thought was, OK, well, there's the precursor for deconstruction. I mean, that is what he's setting the foundation for.

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Let's lose this religion and church stuff and the stuff we've been taught and stuff in the word. And let's see. Let's see.

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Jesus is this broken, naked, bloodied person who's vulnerable and has no power.

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That way you feel comfortable coming to him. And maybe you don't have to repent. Maybe maybe you can keep sinning and you don't have to fear the

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Lord and fear God. I mean, what are your thoughts on that blurb? Is that kind of the feeling you're getting when you're reading something like that?

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I think it's blasphemy. Yeah, I think it's it's it's blasphemous through and through.

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How dare anyone, anyone, myself, you. How dare any of us ever try to ascribe attributes to God that we don't find in Scripture?

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First and foremost, God is not vulnerable. Christ wasn't on the cross, helpless and weak and and and open to attack.

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And we need to get rid of this religion, this, you know, God is not just out there, just chest out, you know, bare chested, anything like that.

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That shows me right there that he has no idea who

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God is, according to the scriptures he is. And listen to me very closely. Anyone who espouses and teaches this nonsense, they will hear the words of Matthew seven when they approach.

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You talked about the throne of judgment when they go before Christ and they say, Lord, Lord, knowing who

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Christ is, knowing who they're standing in front of. Did I not write these songs in your name?

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Did I not write this devotional in your name? Did I not do that? And because of that confession and the straight out blasphemy against the name and the character of God, he will stay away from me.

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I never knew you, those of you who practice lawlessness. That is absolute.

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That is just I'm appalled that there are people defending him and defending this and saying, well, see, that's what he means.

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Yes, Christ was he was he was he he showed us how to be the perfect human. OK, this comes from this comes from Corey's Corey being around guys like Bill Johnson and the folks at Bethel who completely deny the deity of Christ.

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Yeah, they that they say that Jesus did. I'm quoting Bill Johnson. Jesus does what he did as a man empowered by the

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Holy Spirit. Yeah, wrong. He was truly God, truly man. Verily, verily,

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God and man, the God man. You cannot you cannot ascribe those attributes to any member of the

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Holy Trinity, whether it be God, the Father, God, the Son or God, the Spirit. To do so is to blaspheme the very name of God.

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No, that's good. And what you're referring to here, there's a couple more quotes I'll give you. And this just kind of reinforces how we how we downplay or eliminate the deity of Christ when we fall into that type of gospel.

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He says he set the example of what it meant to be human. And he was the guy who went to the cross.

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Well, I'm already I already don't like that language. He wasn't the guy. Right. He wasn't human. He's fully God, fully man.

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He also says. So this shows that suffering did, in fact, suck in the moment. It wasn't fun for Jesus.

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So, you know, people say, hey, look, are you just nitpicking the language here? And I go, no, I feel like it goes to a a broader foundation of of not understanding who

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Christ is. And then everything from that grows out of that. Your worship music.

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That's right. Biology, your doctrine, how you know how you view God. And we have a real issue here because he writes some very hooky songs.

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You said at the top of the show. I mean, there's a reason why most scholars believe that that Satan was what was the angel of music, right?

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The angel of of light. Right. Because it's such a powerful thing.

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This is why we see in the secular culture that we can control generations by music and pop music in that culture.

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There is something there that is extremely powerful. You and I both know it as musicians. It's extremely powerful when we use it to enter into the presence of God in a very unique way.

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That's right. So we have to be on our guard when we have a musician or someone like this espousing these things and then using the very potent tool of music to influence a worldview of who

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God is. And I would say I don't think we're nitpicking here when we say, hey, he was the dude. He's the he's the guy.

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He showed us how to be a human. But you're absolutely right. It sprouts out of even his time at Bethel.

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I think he was assigned to Bethel for for quite a while, I think he was. And yeah,

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Bill Johnson, we did a whole episode on this on just how he continually downplays and says, yeah, he was just a human right with the

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Lord and right in spirit. And that's our that's what we strive to be. And and you just go, wow, this is this is a movement right underneath our feet and people are eating it up to totally eliminate the deity of Christ and who he truly was.

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Absolutely. And here's and here's the problem. And here's why here's why you and I are talking about this. Here's why you and I talk about this constantly.

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Here's why we've done it on a matter of theology is because, unfortunately, too many professing evangelical

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Christians get their theology from this pop culture type of worship music.

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That's why I said this pop culture theology. That's what it is. I don't know who said this quote.

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I have it written down on my desk. It's this people will sing their heresy before they believe it. People will.

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I don't know who said it. So if anybody out there listening, you know who said it, let me know. I would love to know. Right. And but but look, man, it's the whole of the modern evangelical church, not just in this country, but the whole of it is sick.

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And what's happened is people have stopped being discerning. In a recent interview that Dr.

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John MacArthur did with Justin Peters at the Shepherds Conference, Justin asked him, he said, John, what is the biggest threat to the church today?

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And I quote, here's what John said. An abysmal lack of biblical discernment. An abysmal lack of biblical discernment.

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I see this. I read this article and it's just like red flags, man. Dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig.

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No, no, no, no. You know. And there've been others out there, friends of mine who have commented and said things like, you know, well, being all powerful doesn't mean he's he isn't vulnerable.

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It just means we have the power to hurt his heart with our sins. And he died for us anyway and finds us anyway.

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That's not weakness. It's strength to be that vulnerable. It's like, well, number one, you don't understand the definition of the word vulnerable.

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But more importantly, you don't know, oh, God, yeah, that is that does not describe him or the way salvation takes place.

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So what's happened is Christ's bride, Christ's bride has been infiltrated by wolves, like Corey Asbury, like Jesus culture, like Bethel, like Hillsong.

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And here's the thing, these guys all run in a community together. You and I know this. Yeah, they run with guys like Chris Tomlin.

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They run with guys, everybody from Passion and Passion City Church. They run with the Shane's I love the

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Shane's their stuff on the hymns is phenomenal. Absolutely. But for the life of me,

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I can't understand why we would partner with people who adulterate

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Christ's bride. Because here's what happens, brother, that the wolves that people invite in, they infect the bride of Christ with a disease.

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Dare I say a venereal disease, as they have joined themselves with harlots bent on prostituting the bride of Christ for nothing but sordid game.

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And they're wolves. They have to be rejected and prayed for.

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And the gospel shared with them. Look, ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, is God's love intimate?

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Absolutely. Absolutely. Is God an intimate father? Absolutely. Do we see that in the way that that the triune

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Godhead interacts? Yes. Do we see that in the way that salvation takes place in the hearts of the elect?

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And then the fact that we are grafted in as Romans tells us, we're grafted into the family of God, the body of Christ.

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Yes, there is an intimacy there. But make no mistake, God is not vulnerable, and his love is not reckless, period.

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Yeah, period. So good. So good. Yeah. And when you're talking about discernment, we've talked about that a lot on here,

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I just feel like we have a huge lack of even caring about being discerning.

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Charles Spurgeon has a great quote that says, discernment is not knowing right from wrong, but knowing right from almost right.

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Almost right. Yeah, I love that quote, because it really is, you have to take that second look, like you, red flags going off in my head going, man, we, we have got to right the ship or be vocal about who

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God truly is. Because here's, here's the thing, Chris, and I know you understand this. I do.

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It's almost from a heart of compassion, because I go, look at if you understand who God truly is, and you do fear him, and reverence him, and you live in a state of gratefulness when you understand justification and grace, and all these things, and you're just you're chasing a cheap imitation out there.

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And it's you're drinking diet pop, man, come get the honey, you know, and I don't not only for self fulfillment,

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I'm not I'm not saying it just because we want to feel better. I'm saying I want to glorify God rightly,

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I want to worship him rightly. And I think you and I track with that. So as we wrap this up here, give give us our final thoughts.

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We have someone listening going, you know, I'm going to take a look at that article. I've heard of reckless love.

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Yeah, I jammed to it a few times in the car, maybe my church sings it. What's the final word here?

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When we're looking and discerning at articles and books and in worship music like this, that might just be off, maybe some key things that we can do, listeners can do when they're analyzing that and going, is this of God?

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Do we just compare it to scripture? Do we look for certain things? What do you think as we finish out here? Brother, that's a fantastic question.

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It's an ongoing question, a question I think that that has has multiple answers from multiple angles, but I would say this, whenever you read something like this, where it elevates man, elevates man to this place of the fact that we think that we have the power within us, number one, to raise our own dead hearts, but then number two, that we have the power within us to weaken

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God. It elevates man and God is demoted.

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And when we see that, when that is two things, so that when we see this elevation of man and this demotion of God, number one, but then number two, anything, anyone, anyone who professes faith in the

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Lord Jesus Christ, and especially if they espouse themselves to be a leader, and if they are, if they are ascribing attributes to God, that scripture does not run the other direction and warn as many people as you can on the way.

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Yeah, for me, it comes down to any time that I've had an issue with something biblical that someone said to me, and I get upset, it's because it's my pride or flesh getting in the way.

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I've had many people, I go, look at God is in the heavens. He does as he pleases. Oh, that's crass.

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That mean the God is love. And it's like, look at the only reason you don't like that statement, and it is biblical is because maybe it hurts your pride.

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I want to feel important. I want to have something to do with God's love. I want to, I want him to be vulnerable with me and my heart rate.

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And let's not even get, I didn't even get started on the fact that that kind of language that you're talking about vulnerability and that makes him greater.

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That's all Carl Jung, man. That's secular psychology. That's oh, those that are that open up and are vulnerable.

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Those are the stronger people. No, it's not biblical. That's secular psychology from a coke head. All right.

29:47

Or maybe that was Freud, but I think Jung partook as well. But my whole point was likely.

29:53

Yeah, most likely. But my whole point is this. Let's be biblical, just like you were saying. Let's let's let the word of God be our dividing line.

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And let's not let our pride in flesh rear up and try to see

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God a different way because we want to feel or be a certain way. That's where I think

30:13

I'm at. So once more, throw out the podcast and the social media. Yeah, just a

30:19

Matter of Theology is the podcast. You can find us anywhere. Apple, Spotify, Anchor, a bunch of other platforms.

30:27

And then so on the socials, just at Chris Huff or at Matter of Theology. That's where you can find us.

30:33

Beautiful guys. If you're not listening to Chris Huff and Matter of Theology yet, I don't know what you're waiting for. He brings this intensity, this word, this kind of word every single week on his podcast.

30:43

I encourage you, if you're listening now, make sure you go download it in your pod, chaser, podcaster, wherever you're getting it and start listening.

30:50

Guys, as always, we appreciate you listening to another episode of Deadman Walking Podcast. You can find us at dmwpodcast .com or Deadman Walking Podcast on all the social medias.

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We don't maintain all of them because there's so many, but mostly on Facebook and Instagram is where you can find us interacting.

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We appreciate you telling a friend. We appreciate you living reviews. And if you want to buy some merch and support the show, it goes to the podcast.

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All glory to God. Chris, thanks so much for being on, brother. Amen. Thank you, brother. To next time. As always, you know, you have an open door on this podcast.

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Anytime something's on your mind, make sure you jump in and we can talk about it. Guys, as always, God bless.

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Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Deadman Walking Podcast for full video podcast episodes and clips or email us at deadmenwalkingpodcast at gmail .com.